This is a needed conversation. I work in higher ed and I also have an 8 year old. Hyper-vigilance is NOT good for the kids or the parents. We used to call it helicopter parenting, then snowplow parenting. Now it's to the point where it's so ridiculous cute nicknames for it are no longer funny. And the thing is if you buck against this you are considered neglectful, which is socially isolating at the bare minimum.
I’m only about halfway through the episode, but do they ever go into the reasons for why parents feel a need to “hyper parent”? My wife and I homeschool. We don’t let the kids watch television. It seems to me that the parents who were the most hands-off were the baby boomer parents, and half of their boomer children wound up sad, work-stressed, divorced, unmarried, etc. Those parents didn’t monitor what their kids were learning at school. They didn’t monitor what the children were watching on television. They didn’t monitor what was going on at youth groups. It was a high trust society, so why should they have worried? And then they were shocked in the late 1960s to find out their own children rejected their culture. So anybody who’s having children today is especially worried that their children will not pass on their culture, so we all feel the need to be extremely attentive to their upbringing. This is a natural reaction to seeing what has happened in previous generations. To a large extent, you can attribute “hyper-parenting” to a lack of trust in society. Edit: she mentions parents in the 1980s feeling like their kids weren’t automatically going to have life better than they had it. But birth rates peaked in 1957, and crashed below replacement rate by 1971. So it must have been earlier that people felt they couldn’t easily parent anymore. In addition, parents believed their children would have life better than they had it all the way until the global financial crisis of 2007. I remember it well. We’ve been much more skeptical since then. So that is also insufficient to explain why hyper-parenting began in the 1980s.
@@derek4412 You just explained perfectly what a hyper parenting mindset is like. I was home schooled until 5th grade and it was honestly so lonely and so boring. I was excited to go to school. I was bullied, then I figured it out. I left home at 16, went to college, and I don't regret any of those choices. Keeping your kids in a bubble is not healthy. It does not lead to a successful adulthood unless they decide to continue living in that bubble. I can handle adversity and stress better than my siblings who stayed. Many kids who grow up with parents hovering over them develop anxiety issues and/or go no contact with their parents later in life. I'm not quite to that point, but I don't look forward to spending time with my parents, either.
@@meadowrae1491yes, I think “hyper-parenting” is perhaps a natural result of modernity, and the incomprehensibility of culture that occurs once humans live together in large groups. What the experts call “hyper parenting“ today is actually just parenting about one century after we are no longer a primarily rural society. So the only way to lessen the stressors on people is for people to just not have children. My reasons for homeschooling are varied, but it’s more a reaction to increasing rates of anxiety and depression that are being observed today. If anything, I want my kids to be healthier and better adjusted than I see most children are now. If there were affordable schools that didn’t allow technology I would be open to sending them there, as I think technology use is half the problem…the other half of the problem is a lack of hope for the future. The latter is much harder for schools to solve, but the first part is actually easy, but almost none of them are willing to do it.
@@derek4412 Like it or not technology is a part of the world now in almost every facet of life. How will you educate your children on the addictive nature of it if they are never exposed to it? You have to practice moderation in order to excel at it. The kids who partied the hardest in college were the ones who were in prohibitive homes like you're describing. The brain doesn't mature enough to handle this stuff without oversight until 25 at the earliest, do you plan to keep your kids in a controlled, tech-sterile environment until then? Don't get me wrong, I understand the impulse to protect our kids from the harm of this stuff but I'm not sure outright banning something everyone in modern society relies on to perform basic life tasks like their job is actually protecting them. My son has friends who aren't allowed tech at their homes. They are FIENDS for it when out from under their parents' eye. If allowed, they will sit like zombies for hours. I live in a crunchy town and watched it happen at 2 seperate birthday parties. Their parents had NO idea, the kids lied and downplayed it. My sister has recently reversed her no screens stance when she noticed the differences developing between her sons and mine. My son has been using such devices with careful oversight since early childhood and he happily chooses to spend his free time outside unsupervised vs supervised on a screen. There is no mystery or intrigue left there for him. My mom has been a k-12 administrator for 30 years and according to her it isn't the tech that's the problem, it's lack of parental investment. People don't have time to pay attention to what is going on with their kids anymore, even when they want and try to. I don't mean to criticize, I genuinely hope it works out for your kiddos. It sounds like you have the investment though, maybe the sterile isolated homestead is overkill? Good luck friend!
@@aawillma I completely understand where @derek4412 is coming from, but I also agree with what you're saying here. I have an 8 year old, and I do not have the option to homeschool as I'm a single parent (that was not the plan when he was born, but here we are.) The resource I'm most short on is time. I work full time, and I manage my home alone. I cannot supervise him 24/7. He's going to have to learn how to navigate the internet because I'm not always going to be there to help him, unfortunately. Kids don't just magically develop critical thinking at 18-25, it has to be taught. I don't have the answers; we're all doing the best we can. I do agree that there is an air of hopelessness and anxiety, but I don't know that taking kids out of society will be helpful. We desperately need opportunities to form community, but no one has any time and we're so spread out. I can barely make time to go see my best friend and her kids, and I've been really trying. The issue is that she lives about a half an hour away, and every weekend seems to be filled with activities and family events. When did that happen? I swear when I was growing up weekends were genuinely free time, and now they're not
This is why I don't understand the confusion around global birth rate decline. It's not some confusing mystery, it's an extremely obvious and natural response to the cost and risk of modern parenting. All the stable adults that I know who are considering a family think that if you can't do it right, you shouldn't do it at all. They also happen to be self-aware enough to understand that they either couldn't do it right, or that the cost of doing it right would be too much to bear. Apparently, according to the research, they're right. Productive citizens are a valuable resource for societies, but until governments pony up the cash and culture to support parents, they will continue to lose access to that resource. FAFO 🤷
Perhaps, the solution is not to decide that you can't "do it right", but to redefine "right" for yourself and your family and create community with like-minded others.
So I'm a new foster parent and this is my first time dealing with schools outside of being a student myself and being an adjunct college professor. Omg. Parents. I am so sorry. I already hated administrators due to my experiences as a professor, but Jesus wept, They need to stop. This month alone they have scheduled 3 family activity nights and they to guilt the parents into showing up including telling the kids over and over that it's going to be a fun night and imply that they don't want to miss out. I work 40hrs. My husband works 40hrs. We are exhausted. We are burned out already and we've only been doing this 3 months. Everyone wants something from us and that not counting the poor kiddo who is the actual person that deserves our attention. Now this school wants me start showing up at 5:30 on a Tuesday night to let the kid go back and play with friends some more? No. I am done. I need time to recharge. This is when we have dinner. This time leads into bath time and reading time and bedtime. Routine is incredibly important for foster children. Please, Stop it. Let your teachers go home. Let us be at home. Let us reset. I am done. And I feel guilty for saying it and it makes me feel like I'm a failure and a bad foster parent for saying no we need to skip all this Bs. But I'm putting my foot down. We can't live like this. NONE of us, including bio parents. We need self care and for our family self care is family time after school and work and also time where the kiddo plays by himself and my husband and I do our own thing in the same vicinity where we're available but not actively engaging the entire time. I'm done with this school trying to bully us into spending all of our time with them for reasons that make zero sense to me. I am so damn tired and honestly, If our foster kiddo is able to reunite with his family (which is our goal, obviously), we're considering no longer fostering. It isnt the kid that is breaking us, it's the schools and all the hyper parenting expectations. Shit my parents didn't have to do when I was a kid in the 80s. So insane.
Please make sure when you foster children, your foster child isn't a forced orphan from some type of criminal activity, fraud or trafficking scheme by our very own government. We need foster parents and parents to unite and stop this from happening to children. Same practice continues as did back in the 1850 with the orphan trains. Children need their biological families more than anything, even if it can't be mom and dad.
As a teacher, ALL of this. We are required to be at these functions as part of our jobs, unpaid. As a parent, ALL of this. I can’t give to my children or my students from an empty well.
You don't have anything to be guilty about. You have a scheduling conflict with this school activity, that's all. You're giving yourself and your foster kid structure, which is job 1. The school is there to support that, not make extra demands of you. The educated class in the U.S. is way too deferent to educational institutions. Democracy is ultimately about trusting your own judgement as a reasonable adult.
I was raised by elderly relatives and they essentially left me to play on my own during the day and would interact with me at for a couple of hours before bed. That was it. Their health deteriorating caused more issues than them letting me alone. I knew how to amuse myself and learned to read at an early age. While I've never been the most outgoing person thanks to just being a natural introvert and homebody, I still had little to no trouble exploring or handling things. This ouroboros of you and your kid being up each other's butts is the most draining thing I've ever done. My son is almost 5, and I have to fight to carve out time for myself because my husband and I both fell for the "Parent is a verb" stuff. I'm tired. My kid has trouble acclimating to not being the center of attention all the time to everyone, and it shows. That third spaces have all but disappeared and with fewer kids in the neighborhood in general and my old head neighborhood especially has not helped. I love my kid, I love him so much, but I want him to have the sort of childhood I had, that my husband had, playing in creeks and riding bikes, without me worrying, but I can't. With people having CPS on speed dial, with that woman in Texas being arrested for child abandonment on her front porch...It seems impossible.
I feel exactly the same way. I can't help thinking about all the things I felt free to do as a child that would now constitute neglect. He's 8 years old, why is it such a travesty if he plays in his own backyard without my supervision? As he gets older, I wonder if it will ever be socially acceptable for him to have a sleepover or go to summer camp? Or is that neglect because he could be exposed to creep? How is my kid supposed to make friends if I always have to be there?
Parental neglect is what had you and your husband doing "those things". That is the issue. you admit to being raised by elderly (parental neglect) which meant they had limited mobility and knowledge and personal investment in your life plan. They let you run free because of insufficient care they had to offer, not because children should run free unfettered as a standard. I have to children under 3, never spent a day away from them and don't plan on it Children belong in a loving home primarily. Streets and creeks are for much later when they have achieved stability in the home physically and emotionally.
@@louis-vd3urBeing away from home and trusted to do things by myself or with friends offered me a sense of agency and power. I am a fairly intensive parent, but I also let my kid play for hours outside with his friends. Kids have to learn to problem solve and deal with others without their parents.
That is not true. Children are not capable of empathy for friendships. They need adult guidance for much longer than the average slacker parent is willing to admit or work for. 50 years of preschool and there is record male unemployment and female birth rate decline. Seems like the bad skills everyone is learning is not helping anyone and is undermine g the family. Letting children wander is about leaving mother alone to work rest cook or clean, stop pretending they are learning anything from other children except bad habits....
@louis-vd3ur I am sure you are a wonderful parent, but those ideas are very incorrect. Where are you getting your information? You sound like you are already a very involved parent, but it might help you to take child psychology and development courses to learn more about how children actually develop and what they need. Too much hovering over children is as detrimental as too much freedom, just in different ways. Children absolutely do need free, unstructured play with others around their age to help develop social skills and problem solving and a sense of competence and resilience. They also need care and guidance and supervision from parents. It’s not either or. It’s a healthy balance of both, in age appropriate ways. I believe you said you have kids under 3, so intense supervision makes sense at that age. As they grow older, however, they need increasing amounts of freedom or they can develop problems such as a lack of confidence since they have never had to tackle a healthy challenge on their own. Again, everything should be incremental and age appropriate for their development and skill levels, but kids do need time around other kids and some freedom. Mom or dad can’t step in and do everything for them forever, nor is that healthy to foster that kind of dependency.
One thing about the lack of independence is that it doesn't have to come from the parents. A lot of kids live in neighborhoods that are very isolated, spaced out, and far away from everything and they need to rely on parents to take them places and see friends. And that option isn't always available and as a result, technology creeps in to fill that gap in interaction. That's where our environment can start to trap us.
@@RebeccaRobbins-p9xNotJustBikes has a great video on raising children in the US/Canada compared to Europe. It's a good place to start m.th-cam.com/video/oHlpmxLTxpw/w-d-xo.html
It is WILD to me the amount of mental gymnastics it takes to turn "parenting is becoming a public health hazard" into "this is because of how people are choosing to parent". The US is ACTIVELY promoting toxic individualism as an ideal. The US is the only developed country that deprives its citizens of parental leave and universal healthcare. Its the only developed country that forces families to put their newborn infants into group care with strangers. The US actively passes legislation that ensures kids are at very real risk of gun violence. It actively promotes the persecution of certain children and families. And huge shocker, the US is the only place where parenting messes up parents enough to be considered a public health crisis. AND instead of looking the very obvious social factors that make parenting so overwhelming in the US compared to other developed countries, folks are gonna pretend it's about individual parenting choices and individual psychology. Whatever it takes to avoid having to face what you are actively and intentionally doing, as a country, huh?
There's something bigger going on in the world. European nations highest happiness ratings and best social safety nets are experiencing declining birth rates. Russia a nation that has always ex told some sort of misery on its population has a declining birth rate like they've never seen. China has pulled more people out of poverty in a shorter time period than any country in history has a rapidly declining birth rate. I really think Japan is the one to watch because they are further down this road then all the other nations in the world.
@mrsmegz while humans don't believe it by individual standards, together as a group we act as a large organism. The earth is changing physically and spiritually (changing religious power) and politically. Humans recognize this change and adapt. It is not the end of the world for population decline. It could be a self correcting measure, but regardless of what a few of us individually believe, the organism is shrinking. Neither good nor bad. What we should do is think about the effects this shrink will make: what will be problems and what will be a benefit. If you can learn to find solutions to the problems creatively with low resources, you can begin your journey to actual wealth.
America is very very backwards on so many levels...the poverty, the medical insurance scam system, and don't get me started on rhe fact ots even remotely possible that a 34 x convicted felon can run for President, much less it be a close race 🤯🤯🤯
Yeah, what's happening everywhere is that parenting offers very little attractive for prospective parents. From the economic standpoint to how society will judge you and how institutions and public policy and urban planning will ignore you and your kid's needs. And later on, when having your kids turn into adults, society will not expect anything from them as sons and daughters. They can even publish a book called "I'm glad my mom is dead" and be interviewed and adored everywhere. I bet that wouldn't happen with the title: "I'm glad my daughter is dead". If your kids are as@h@les it's supposedly you fault. So in short, now you get no social or economic advantages as a parent but carry a huge financial and emotional risk. Humanity deserves a low birth rate.
Preach it! You hit it on the nail. You're never going to harm your kid by being connected with them. You will harm your kid when you ignore/neglect them. Not to mention the costs of everything has gone up. Healthcare. Education. Global Warming etc.
What is the dating market value of a parent who lives in poverty but takes their kids to museums and does crafts with them? Pretty low. Society does not appreciate love as much as success.
@@lijohnyoutube101 you are right! But exactly the problem! Society demands of us the "symptoms" of being a good person and uses wealth vs. Poverty as the identifiable measure, forcing everyone into the rat race. Our children pay the price. I live well below the poverty line with wife and three kids because we love our family more than our jobs. (Which we also love!)
I think "market value" is your error. Somethings are beyond capitalism to value correctly (love, relationships, family, the environment, community). Seeking wisdom in a capitalistic system of valuation is afool's errand.
This is a symptom of the monetization of all aspects of human life and culture. Our housing has been financialized to the point where nobody can afford to stay home and parent. Child care and education and parenthood have been monetized and commercialized. Children's play has been commercialized to the extent that every activity requires equipment, a subscription, and organized activity with expensive facilities. We let our kids play in the neighborhood park and with kids from down the street, but on any given day there's only two or three kids in the entire neighborhood around to play with. Everyone else is at daycare or band camp or hockey practice or martial arts lessons. These activities are great, but the lack of free time and free play that are kids have is a real problem for their development and it's all based around the constant need to make more money out of every aspect of life.
Another stressor to add on to modern parents is the grandparents (IN GENERAL) are way less attentive and helpful than they used to be. (If that is not your experience you are incredibly lucky) They are also not understanding or empathetic to the issues. They tend to think that they had just as hard a time as we do, and no amount of data or self reflection IF they are even willing to engage in it, will change that. I understand this is a big generalization, but as an elder Millennial, with boomer parents, multiple sets bc of multiple divorces- they have all been mostly no help at all with our son, and I know SO many people of my generation, in my situation with unhelpful parents as well. It truly seems to be a generational phenomenon.
Most of our friends with children also have boomer parents who are mostly off on cruises and doing their own things, or otherwise live far away (ours in other countries).
Currently seeing this with my boomer mom. Chooses to live in another state playing pickleball with other 70-year-olds than getting to know her grandson.
I’m a new mother of an 11 month old and I am their primary caregiver. I have been shocked and overwhelmed by all the guidelines to raising a child, both from the internet and their pediatrician. No screens allowed, read every day, get enough tummy time, no processed foods, breast is best, give them vitamin D and probiotics, buy the best Montessori toys, wear your carrier correctly or you will ruin their hips, do a bedtime routine every night, oh and don’t cosleep, you will kill your child! I don’t have enough time in the day to feed myself and shower, let alone follow all the “rules”
All I want fixed as a parent at this point is for public schools to please be decent and safe. Becoming a parent is really hard, but it's a worthwhile challenge. It's extra hard when we're so judged. Society gives us pretty much all problems and little support. Having kids is not the problem, society is. Just reading the comments here is depressing. So much judgement. A lot of parents acting like they're better than the other. A lot of people who aren't parents telling parents they're doing it wrong. And as you try to blow off a little steam... what you get back is always "this is why I don't have kids." Yeah, thanks. So helpful.
I was raised in Europe and moved to the states at age 20. Now in my 40s with one child. A few huge red flags I’ve noticed in the US: - from birth children rearing is a business ( babysitters, kindergarten = $$). Conditions are deplorable, yet equal a single income for a month’s worth. - no play time for free (after school $$, activities $$) - parents in the 🇺🇸 vet their children’s friends by vetting their parents. If you happen to have a diff than an American last name, good luck getting a “yes” to a play date or a birthdate. I feel like a leper 🤣. Segregation anyone?! - children nowadays are signed up for 4 activities per week to make sure they are involved with something outside of their classroom. Yet, I find it mind-boggling that they see their grand-parents three times a year - at their birthday, thanksgiving and Christmas. - everyone spews out parenting advice, books, podcasts, has an opinion, but refuses to have children.
As a young mother of three I was convinced that whatever was hardest was exactly what the experts would recommend to me. For example, breast is best, don't use a microwave to heat up milk (even after shaking) every meal should be homemade because convenient foods are junk foods, don't work too much and it is best to not work at all to provide the best care for them, you should homeschool, you should secure playdates and sign them up for 100 activities, etc.
I'm 50, I'm so glad I didn't have kids. I wanted a baby on my 20s so I'd have 'someone to love me' - I had no clue. Thankfully, I saw through orher people how hard parenting is, and I decided hell no. Farbfrom "regretting" my choice as I got older, it just became more solidified
Between the pressures of work, the pressures of parenting, the vilification of parents by psychology, the pressure to not care what others think, and the pressure to be happy, it ended up being a good thing that I never gave birth. I’m not fulfilled, but at least I didn’t create more humans.
100 percent, we had two toddlers when we felt ready. Good income, stable housing. I had my first ultrasound when the lockdown kicked in. It’s been so hard. There is so little support and it’s so expensive I can’t function. I read articles every week saying I’m abusing my kids if I don’t do all this extra labor. I also worry so much about shootings and the way climate change already is burning down my state..:. I don’t know what we are suppose to do to fix this. Child care is more than my income so I can’t go back to work to fix our finances either.
Thank you for highlighting this issue more and I’m glad a bulletin came out. That was the first time my parents took me seriously when I told them how hard this has been on us
Try trusting yourself more and reading these articles less. Stay away from social media - comparing your real life to others commercials for their life is a recipe for misery. Include your children in things you enjoy (if you like taking a walk, walk with them; if you enjoy browsing in the library, bring them - let them pick their books and then let them help you while you pick yours, they can carry their books or sit quietly and look at a book while you pick yours). While your kids are little and want to help, let them help - it takes longer when they are little but will pay big dividends as they get older, are used to helping and are contributing. Spend time just being together - you are reading a book while they are playing or reading their books. They are playing with toys while you cook. Tidy up together - see if they can beat the timer to get all their toys in the toy box/ basket. If you know like-minded parents, perhaps you can trade play dates, where each of you takes turns with the kids, while the other gets some down time. Please keep in mind that the toddler years are one of the most physically intense (because of their need for constant supervision). This will lessen as they get older and then other needs will take precedence. Instead of parenting articles, consider reading some child development articles which help you know the stages of development, what to expect and some research-based methods of handling common issues.
I agree with tuning out social media, but honestly including toddlers in things you like to do just ruins those things… it becomes a different kind of pressure. God bless my mom who always encourages me to just get through the darn day. It gets easier after 5. Problems get more complicated as they get older, but I have older kids and a toddler and older kids are way, WAY easier. Life comes back. Just get through the day.
Missing from this podcast: enforcement mechanisms. Mandatory reporting. CPS. Dept of health and human services. Etc Enforcement is much more severe than it was in years past, and failure to engage in “intensive parenting” can result in mandatory reporting.
I agree! I kept waiting and never once did they mention it's actually ILLEGAL most places to allow your children to even walk to school on their own, let alone play in the street/parks. And that CPS can jump in and steal them if someone reports on you. Not to mention, even if it wasn't, our parks and streets have been taken over by homeless mentally ill people where I live, so I couldn't let the kids out there alone for that reason either.
Right, I’ve to kindly reminded a lot of older folks in my life that’s it’s illegal to parent the way they parent us. I use to sleep in the trunk space in our mini van on long car rides. My parents use to to leave us at an arcade all day as elementary age. Now there are” do not leave your kids unattended” signs at those kinds of places, which chances they’ll call the cops. I was at baby shower last weekend and the conversation between parents was casually talking about the lies you are force to tell your child’s pediatrician about your parenting choices , out of fear of being reported. Things like lying about how newborn is sleeping in a crib and not co sleeping, or feeding baby food before 6 months, having newborn laying to long in a swing. It’s definitely a related stressor for most parents, that our grandparents didn’t have.
Just here to say that homeless are victims of street violence more than they are ever the aggressors and children are usually the ones harming elderly because of what adult a have told them. Homeless run rampant in my area and they always have a nice word and smile for my child. But as Catholics we teach pity and sympathy for the poor, not reactionary fear and misunderstanding. I always imagine this could be my son/daughter and cry when I see them. Such poor souls
Free-ranging only works when the parents are still actively involved in their kid's lives. I currently live in a neighborhood where you can describe the kids as more "feral" than free...
Free range also needs a community. Safety, authority figures you can trust and a many children doing the same thing. I cannot raise a free range child when no on else is.
I left teaching because my students threatened to kill me, parents did nothing and the principle did not even want to know. Yes, kids are messed up mostly likely because of the parents but come on there has to be responsibility and accountability from the parents.
Most parents these days are just sex freaks who have babies. They are immoral, unethical, and deranged. Godless beings set on living empty lives of destruction. Homeschooling families are the only real ones left.....
Kids walking to school is down to 11% from 48% from the 1970s. America is so car centric parents have to drive kids everywhere. Autos kill 7500 pedestrians a year which is greatly up. Kids are given so little autonomy parents have to arrange everything. We need to make safely walkable neighborhoods to give kids autonomy and parents a break.
39 year old, single, never married, no kids. Advancing in career, better shape than ever, great hobbies My married friends…easy to see why I had no kids
Intensive parenting is what we used to call helicopter parents. It is not good for children or parents. Children must be given chances to explore and be independent.
There's a big difference between teaching your child age appropriate independence & dumping your own adult responsibilities onto them because you took on too much. Many parents these days fall into the latter category
Like regular parents don't know that the parents who graduated from Ivy+ schools are hiring highly trained, three-language-speaking tutor-nanny combos. In the mean time, three regular jobs in the fam doesn't close the retirement gap, much less tuition in umteen years at one of the Ivy+ schools... that ensures a network to get a slightly-better than regular job, one that actually pays the bills. While those MBAs from those schools are blazing the trail right along side Boeing & BlackRock. But sure, let's cut taxes on the wealthy and corporations because Trump, not even from elected office, killed the bipartisan immigration bill and is successful at keeping Midwest moms terrified. Parenting doesn't happen in a vacuum. Where we are with wealth and income inequality needs to matter to all of us, for so very, very many reasons, and we need to get involved.
I think the point of the video is why are we so invested in the child going to an ivy in the first place? It's the subjective value everyone gives to this that makes the rich stay rich. If we all realized the idea of ivies being better is far from true, then maybe that basis for inequality would be eroded. But nope. We are all obsessed with the kids going to the ivies and of course nobody can compete with high income earners on this.
Me and my lady work in tech. We have no clue how people do this and raise a kid. She works 10+ a day and I work a bunch too. Make good money but not enough to buy a house here in the bay area so no kids for us. The only people I see here with kids are the PMC people with tons of money and 1 or 2 kids or borderline homeless people with 8. The middle just doesn’t try.
This is a real crisis, and I totally feel for you, but can't help myself: I cannot believe you call your partner "m'lady" and are still partnered with her.
What's funny is now parents will be talking to their therapists and doctors about how dangerous it is to be a parent. It's like another anxiety to treat.
This podcast could talk about fecal matter I'd still listen because Michael's and his crew don't SCREAM like almost every other channel. They almost whisper..its so refreshing.
There are so many great possible topics: Fecal transplants for patients with treatment-resistant _Clostridium difficile_ colitis Population-level monitoring of the virome (virus biome) using wastewater The archeology of coproliths The public health effects of a demolished fresh- and wastewater infrastructure in Gaza The rising incidence of colorectal cancers among people under 50, and if there's any association with constipation and a Western diet
Omfg "Intensive Parenting" meaning our Boomer parents built a world with no side walks, locked us out of the house all day with a water hose to drink from and beat us bloody for sport were doing it right..... (???) Instead folks had kids and wanted them to feel secure and loved and not be assholes ... but they shouldn't feel guilty for existing You know, the opposite of what we had
Actually: I am very glad that people are showing how joyful it can be to be parents. I can also understand the small -c conservative view that kids should have independence and play outside and frankly: when I was very young that was exactly what I had. I have no children. I married with 26, moved country and into a different culture, and started full time university with my 3rd language at the same time...and I think I overdid it. My husband was great and would have been a great dad. However, by that time, I thought maybe we should have children, (by this time we had already real issues in our relationship, but I wanted to save it and start a fresh page) I came off the contraceptive pill...and everything changed. I literally couldn't stand my husband's smell anymore. I know that sounds weird. I went to the DR asking if this could have been the pill. He told me that this was definitely not an issue and asked whether it was psychological. I asked my husband to come to couple counselling and he refused he was more conservative and felt this was invasive. A little later I left. WE divorced. By this time I was 32. And things changed. In the hospital where I worked, I had to work with a woman who irritated the death out of me. It took me 6 months to understand I was sexually attracted. Then it took me another 6 months to NOT think that I lived in an upside-down world. Now I am married to a woman. We have been together for 20 years and I am happy. All that to say: Things happen in life. The whole culture war about kids or no kids and how this is being tied to good versus bad is just useless. Our culture has changed drastically and it will take time for people to FIND their ways. But General anxiety, aggression and fearmongering, be it the climate crisis or the faltering demographic do NOTHING to encourage happy parenting. And as Clinton said: It takes a village. It takes more than ONE or TWO people to bring up the children. Rising distrust be it in family or professionals really doesn't help.
I was raised among Depression Era Elders that were my partners in crime, getting up to a lot of minor mischief. I also worked alongside my parents on family projects, and worked outside the home at a young age. It was riskier as far as injury was concerned, but made me very independent, curious, and skilled. Being at the end of the Baby-boom Generation and surrounded by Seventy and Ninety Year Olds, was a rather rare and wonderful opportunity. My own children have had a mix of their mother's attentive parenting, and my spending much of our time together working on projects, hopefully some of which were one's that they chose or were happy with.
Its not just hovering over your children. The truth is they both are working. Then try to compensate for that. I am happy we were poor and I was able to stay home in their formative years, Its not good for the children, who need to learn for themselves, Why is it happening? Smaller families, more awareness of predators. Its exhausting for the kids and parents. Its too much.
Our son just started 7th grade and there's talk of 'grades' and 'SAT's' and 'college acceptance' already and an odd sort of status building in that with many other friends and parents.
This entire podcast reminds me so much of Didi Pickles from Rugrats, the criticism of relying on Dr Lipschitz and how it got magnified by social media. Some things never change hah: but yet it all hits so different now.
It takes a toll on a society, seeing a generation of kids do less well than their parents and see life expectancy drop for the first time. Both things we can attribute to record wealth and income inequality, because they make upward socioeconomic even more elusive. To be clear, the parents paying for their kids to be in private club soccer by 7 are the ones locking working-class kids out from opportunity, especially when it comes time for post-secondary education. Policymakers can and should do more _through legislation_ to keep the American dream alive.
The American Dream does not exist. Especially with the 1980 Money Act allowing rampant credit. American wealth does not exist and is not necessary for family life. The loss of a moral order and faith based life is why Americans can not obey natural human reasoning and have families.
@@SpocksCat but certainly since the New Deal. No one from the late 1800s is alive (in a meaningful number). People behave based on how they did or how they're doing compared to the generation that preceded them
Unpopular opinion but true --All of the parents I know who are unhappy and struggling are the ones who didn't stop with one. This idea that you *must* have more than one child is the problem. And far too many people have gone into parenting without understanding the *modern* social contract.
Your sample may not be completely representative. We have 2 (would have had more if physically able) and are happy. I know many happy parents with more than 1 child - but they do not subscribe to this intensive parenting and they choose to associate with like-minded parents. Unfortunately, many parenting trends run to extremes. If you can find the middle - a middle in line with your values - you are much more likely to be happy parenting.
I have three and am super happy. But I have a walkable road, tons of woods, independent kiddos, good neighbors, involved grandparents, stable income and good health benefits. I wonder why I’m happy? Privelege.
So many words on professional and financial achievements, so little on emotional regulation, stability, security. Intensive parenting is not a break but a continuity of unhealthy parenting styles in an unhealthy society. Parents lacking emotional maturity in many many cases and society are peer pressuring each other into horrible expectations, and so the cycle continues.
Read “the Coddling of the American Mind: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas Are Setting Up a Generation for Failure” it’s remarkable. They start by talking about how the peanut allergy panic causes schools to ban it, then peanut allergies skyrocketed.
This is a little ridiculous.. Think about our evolutionary history of parent child bonds.. They were always with us.. They were always exercising, working, learning by our side. It is only in the development of complex societies and governments that we lost our attentive connection with our parents and children. The science is showing us that we need that community and connection that we always had.
Absolutely. Imagine if we raised our children in groups rather than families isolated in individual homes. Imagine if we created a society that prioritised the well-being of its citizens.
The group already exists, it's called family. Sex freaks should not have children. They are the ones creating this problem. Family is how you raise children and base who you marry. Outside of that women love to choose low earning men who they have to support so that they do not have to be wife and mother. Modern women like being whores. Whores on principle do not have families, they destroy them
The government could make it less stressful by getting rid of laws that require carseats after age 2 (at which point they have negligible safety effects.) These laws increase the costs by requiring much bigger cars-the 8 year old car seats are HUGE. And get rid of laws that don't allow children to play outside unsupervised until they're 14 or even stay at home alone until that age; these laws aren't healthy for kids who need to start experiencing independence, and increase the cost of raising children. I was babysitting when I was twelve back in the 80s.
“Attachment” parenting was the buzzword for me when my kids were babies. At school age I definitely felt the societal pressure to be “Intense” but our kids didn’t want to be involved in all the extracurriculars so I followed their lead. The guilt was definitely still there though.
Also, kids seem to need continual mental health checks regarding social media use and their texting relationships. Parents don’t meet or see many of these friends who still influence their kids, sometimes badly or bullying. Also, parents are held accountable legally for their teens crimes….often also for hidden communications they never see.
Parents these days make it difficult on themselves. I have a 12 year old, and I'm not stressed out at all. Maybe because I don't listen to so-called experts and all their bufoonery.
Yes, there are too many people who act like stage managers more than parents and fawn over their progeny as if they are a mere reflection of themselves. And, we know the feeling of have a school expect parents to be involved in every aspect of our child's schooling and school events. But, it's not okay to label parents who have a healthy balance that suits their own family's characteristics as bad parents by others who may not be nurturing their children as much as they should. Every child is different and it's not enough to tell your child "suck it up" and "deal with it on your own".
I’m a mom and I do this with my 7yo son. I know it irritates him but sometimes I’m just like I’ve got to give him the 411 on what a word or phrase means. Despite being irritated when I do it, he does it for me now too sometimes. So, not sorry!
You have to do it. YT and random videos etc. are no longer "vetted" for accuracy or even express reasonable opinions. I can't protect my kid from all these opinions but I can help them to put it into perspective.
@@moonhunter9993 If I was a kid, I would want my mom or dad to explain it to me AFTER the video. Also, my mother and father weren't a good source for telling me whether or not something was accurate anyway. They didn't really understand me. I'm not saying that as a "10 year old". I am almost 60 now, and yes, even at this age I can say that they didn't understand me.
@@themasterspiece5669 Yeah, I sometimes wonder whether or not these "experts" really have kids given the shit advice they give. Or if they have kids, if they ever really interact with them much or if they spend their entire time doing "research" and have someone else raise them.
There is something much more insidious going on: parents do not know how to raise kids who respect them. That's why they are burnt out. Commanding respect is seen as a right wing authoritarian tendency, and parents are judged more harshly if they punish their child then if their child punishes them.
The other day this barely dressed woman in the street attacked me for disciplining my son. Discipline needs to happen in public and private. Too many people do not believe that. They are chronically emotionally immature because their own parents failed. Americans are seriously fundamentally disordered.
I think the issue is often that this intensive/authoritative parenting is meant for people with high enough income to support their child while working for less hours. So when people law down the law/have the high expectations for their children (which are shown to be good when they are supported) the parents don’t have enough energy in the tank to back it up. “Do your homework!” Is meaningless if it hasn’t been made part of the decompression routine after school. “Clean your room!” Is boring and unproductive when they have never been shown what to do, outside of putting toys in boxes. People get so up in arms about what they feed their kids (information and food), but they do it without the structure and direction that is necessary. Because they have been told that kids are squishy sponges that need to be protected, but they also need to be given the supplies and opportunities to work on their own in manageable chunks.
My mom did the music thing while I was in her womb. I was the oldest and this wasn't continued for my siblings and my childhood was self instructed. But I did talk hella early so maybe it gave me a boost.
After pausing a couple times to tamp down my irritation, I ultimately came away from this thinking that the take could have been more nuanced. There could have been more specific moments when they broke down the "expert" advice and discussed its pros and cons (such as watching a show once with your kids and not all the time). In this age where mis and disinformation is proliferating, I think this kind of advice still has a place but needs to be applied in more strategic ways rather than as a blunt instrument. The podcast appeared to poo-poo the idea altogether, and that's not great. The bit about social media's impact on parents/parenting is also underexplored, although I recognize it could be a whole podcast series in itself. Aside from comparison, the way parents can become absorbed in social media themselves and start using their kids for clout is also a problem, and I'd have liked to see that conversation at least alluded to here. I see so much chatter about the negative impacts of social media on kids. To me, the downsides it presents for adults gets short shrift in the larger discussion. I think that's a low down dirty shame. The biggest thing to me, though, is that everyone involved may have overlooked something: how those involved in parenting research deliver their messages. I say involved in research and not experts because (going back to the social media aspect for a moment) not everyone on Instagram is an expert. Some parenting influencers are doing little more than cosplaying as therapists, and to me that's outright harmful. I think the commentators AND the surgeon general missed a golden opportunity to talk about this aspect of parenting culture that needs to change and needs to change fast. Phrasing and presentation of parenting advice increase that sense of competition and reinforce the idea that having little to no identity outside of being a parent is a good thing. We need to dive into the presentation aspect as well as the content. After all, we've seen (for better or worse) just how effective presentation can be.
Wow -That was actually a great piece!! The articulation of evolution to the current state of things is spot on as I myself lived through the time line duscussed. Telling though that after all that expert research the only real offering of tangible solution was ' gift yourself letting them watch TV for an hour without feeling guilty ( since their might not be other kids to free range with) = so the there's this hard to avoid loop - I thank godd I grew up in a household where TV/ screen time was minimized and you had to do non screen activities UNFORTUNATELY now they just leave and roll over to a friend's screen filled household
I am so tired of being so hands on with my kids. If I’m not they throw fits, police and cps come around. My life literally revolves around my kids and their disruptive behavior. Kids are supposed to play together and lean from each other. That has been taken away.
@@louis-vd3urSame way puppies learn by playing with their litter mates. Curiosity, exploration, interaction, practice, trial and error, cooperation and competition. Play is learning.
My parents certainly did not do this style of parenting. I was born in 1955. They modeled curiosity and creativity and intelligence through their normal lives. We were not held by the hand, driven to dozens of extracurricular activities or played with by our parent. We were left to learn about the world, about social dynamics and physical activity on our own and it happened perfectly well that way. I was a straight A student through college, athletic, and socially functional. I ran successful small businesses through my life and wound up financially comfortably. Kids learn about the world naturally on their own.
I thought parents now were paying less attention to their kids, i.e., sticking tablets or IPads in their faces. But this research is suggesting something different? Interesting
The bottom line is......parent the way that you feel comfortable, because you would hear this podcast today and tomorrow you will hear intensive parenting is the bees knees.
Yeah, as soon as I got to the part in “The Jungle” where Jurgis learns his infant son drowned in mud in the street and his other son was forced to live on his own at 11 because the family couldn’t support him I thought “geez those parents back in the 1800s had it easy.”
soccer club for kindergartners is just baby nepotism by another name. "oh youre too tired to network for little Timmy? im so sorry. My little River is besties with little Phoenix and little Phonix aunt is the director for this prestigious school!, you really shouldnt miss out!"
I believe parents enroll so that toddlers can have motor skills, they can meet other parents, and they can have childcare consistently and reliably. Nepotism doesn't fit.....
This topic makes me sick, and to quote a classic, "I can't eat nearly as much as I want to vomit." Apocalypse anxiety, rat race, social media - the world is circling the drain.
I think it is more accurate to say "intensive parenting" is a trend of coastal middle and upper class professional parents. I doubt if most parents in the US are worried about getting their kindergartener a tutor. In fact, the main problem in our schools right now, not mentioned by Ms. Miller, is a truancy crisis - 25% of primary school kids are not attending school enough to be promoted to the next grade! 35% in poor neighborhoods. Their parents aren't bothering to make them get an education! "Intensive parenting burnout" is one of those problems of activist parents that gets inordinate attention from New York Times columnists.
I always wonder if this truancy problem is just because they keep track of it more now. I missed a ton of school when I was a kid because I was exhausted and would just refuse to get up. Maybe there was a truancy policy, but it definitely wasn’t enforced. I missed more than 40 days one year. It didn’t effect my grades and the school didn’t say anything about it. Now I’m constantly stressed out trying to force my kids to push the hell out of themselves to stay within the attendance policy, which is ten days. I’m allowed more absences at my job than my kids are at school. Forget it if they get the flu, because that’s gonna take half the absences right off the bat most of the time. I basically have panic attacks if I can’t get flu shots for them, because I know it’s gonna be a disaster.
Oh, it’s also an issue with funding for rich districts. They just enforce it by emailing people every so often/calling them into the guidance office to tell them they only have a few absences left. (Even then I’ve heard stories about people who technically didn’t meet the requirements to graduate, but they really don’t want to fail someone and let it slide.)
Oh, they definitely keep track of it more. You hear stories from older people/in the media where they skipped school as teens, but if you don’t tell someone you aren’t going then there can be police reports nowadays.
@@lolz-f6c There is definitely fewer kids attending, its not just more tracking. I think there are a number of causes: 1) During Covid school closures a large proportion of US schoolkids fell behind by a year or more. That much time lost is very difficult to catch up; they cannot follow what is going on in class. The negative reportcards just put kids and parents into depression, the kids don't want to go, and parents give up. 2) Covid changed work culture so many more people telecommute. Previously, when people worked in offices 5 days a week, they needed school as childcare. Now they can watch their kids at home 3) MAGA and Fox News propaganda convinces conservative people that all schools teach kids is woke critical race theory and groom them to be trans. So some are afraid 4) There is the "unschooling" movement telling parents schools are too regimented and their kids will learn to read and write on their own without instruction (unbelievably misinformed!)
@@emmakane6848 They've been more closely enforcing attendance for a long time - ever since the 1980s school reform, as a reaction to the 1970s practice of "social passing" kids to the next grade, which resulted in some kids graduating high school without being able to read and write!!!
the content was good but every bit with music felt maddening to me. it's more interruptive than the edit it surrounds and slows the flow of the show in a was I find very irritating.
Here's a crazy insight: we're all going to die. You, me, our kids, their kids, everyone. What is all this striving for? Enjoy life. It's the best lesson you can teach your kids.
Take a look at the natural world. Have you ever seen a moose, otter, duck, etc. reading parenting books or committing their offspring to year round club sports? Yet somehow they know what to do. If there is one thing that humans are really good at, it's that we can complicate the crap out of anything.
Haha as a stressed parent you all have lost the plot. This is like issue #1,001 contributing to the decline in my health. If we want to talk about why parenting is a health crisis let’s actually talk about that. Starting at the top.
I was raised in the mid '90s too early 2000s by a single mom who had total five kids She was very much free range laid back. For example I've never in my life done any homework should well you should do your homework like yeah I'm not going to but you go Well I can't make it do anything so I guess he won't. All of my siblings and myself grew up by an hour and a 30 so we have families and kids houses and are either business owners or upper middle class. Probably some balance in between would be ideal but I think most of it is just kids as adults will be what they will be there's so much you can do as a parent to change that.
It feels to me that you’re missing the context of the parents having in common being the first generation to parent in the age of social media / hyper-connected populations. Most of the parents have yet to figure out a configuration that supports their emotional and psychological wellbeing while guarding against inherent risks of highly compliant, agreeable and conscientious types to not take random input as gospel. Let’s see what that does to the next generation of presumptive parents.
I wonder if some of this is due to a decrease in religion. I don't do this. I spend time with my kids and give them attention, but I also give them space - to be bored, to figure things out. I think this is because I have always seen them as a gift from God and trust that He will watch over them. I also think about the implications of making children the center of things and giving them the misimpression that their parents have no needs. I ask for my kids help with chores and explain that we all live together and mom and dad can't do everything. Our culture is hyper-competitive, but we as parents don't have to choose that for ourselves and our families. For me, it helps to have Christianity as an alternate worldview to the hyper-competitive, materialism of our culture.
The third child is so important. The great liberation of exhausted perfect parents and older siblings. Grandparents should always carry a tablet when providing those free baby sitting seasons. Teach the precious little grandchildren how to down load turtle shows from TH-cam to yourphone. Read a few books as well. Playgrounds are great for relaxing ones supervision a little and for single grandpas the need for green cards definitely improves the dating marketability. Oh , I am sorry your Highness the tattler, I meant to say stupendously... But know, that ain't even a word. Kids are fighting. Sorry, got to go.
Who cares if the parents "aren't alright" they're adults for Pete's sake, they made all of the decisions that got them to where they are today. Their children didn't ask to be born into this mess. No one forced these people into parenthood, they chose it. Actual parenting is hard, really hard & not for the faint of heart. I think the bigger problem is neglectful & absent parents, which is likely why we've experienced such a huge uptick in behavioral issues & normal human responses in children being overly diagnosed. Not to mention the gross over medication of young children, bullying, school shootings, childhood trauma and other entirely preventable tragedies. These parents need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps & sleep in the beds they made.
This is a needed conversation. I work in higher ed and I also have an 8 year old. Hyper-vigilance is NOT good for the kids or the parents. We used to call it helicopter parenting, then snowplow parenting. Now it's to the point where it's so ridiculous cute nicknames for it are no longer funny. And the thing is if you buck against this you are considered neglectful, which is socially isolating at the bare minimum.
I’m only about halfway through the episode, but do they ever go into the reasons for why parents feel a need to “hyper parent”?
My wife and I homeschool. We don’t let the kids watch television.
It seems to me that the parents who were the most hands-off were the baby boomer parents, and half of their boomer children wound up sad, work-stressed, divorced, unmarried, etc.
Those parents didn’t monitor what their kids were learning at school. They didn’t monitor what the children were watching on television. They didn’t monitor what was going on at youth groups. It was a high trust society, so why should they have worried?
And then they were shocked in the late 1960s to find out their own children rejected their culture.
So anybody who’s having children today is especially worried that their children will not pass on their culture, so we all feel the need to be extremely attentive to their upbringing.
This is a natural reaction to seeing what has happened in previous generations.
To a large extent, you can attribute “hyper-parenting” to a lack of trust in society.
Edit: she mentions parents in the 1980s feeling like their kids weren’t automatically going to have life better than they had it.
But birth rates peaked in 1957, and crashed below replacement rate by 1971. So it must have been earlier that people felt they couldn’t easily parent anymore.
In addition, parents believed their children would have life better than they had it all the way until the global financial crisis of 2007. I remember it well. We’ve been much more skeptical since then.
So that is also insufficient to explain why hyper-parenting began in the 1980s.
@@derek4412 You just explained perfectly what a hyper parenting mindset is like. I was home schooled until 5th grade and it was honestly so lonely and so boring. I was excited to go to school. I was bullied, then I figured it out. I left home at 16, went to college, and I don't regret any of those choices. Keeping your kids in a bubble is not healthy. It does not lead to a successful adulthood unless they decide to continue living in that bubble. I can handle adversity and stress better than my siblings who stayed. Many kids who grow up with parents hovering over them develop anxiety issues and/or go no contact with their parents later in life. I'm not quite to that point, but I don't look forward to spending time with my parents, either.
@@meadowrae1491yes, I think “hyper-parenting” is perhaps a natural result of modernity, and the incomprehensibility of culture that occurs once humans live together in large groups. What the experts call “hyper parenting“ today is actually just parenting about one century after we are no longer a primarily rural society. So the only way to lessen the stressors on people is for people to just not have children.
My reasons for homeschooling are varied, but it’s more a reaction to increasing rates of anxiety and depression that are being observed today. If anything, I want my kids to be healthier and better adjusted than I see most children are now. If there were affordable schools that didn’t allow technology I would be open to sending them there, as I think technology use is half the problem…the other half of the problem is a lack of hope for the future. The latter is much harder for schools to solve, but the first part is actually easy, but almost none of them are willing to do it.
@@derek4412 Like it or not technology is a part of the world now in almost every facet of life. How will you educate your children on the addictive nature of it if they are never exposed to it? You have to practice moderation in order to excel at it. The kids who partied the hardest in college were the ones who were in prohibitive homes like you're describing. The brain doesn't mature enough to handle this stuff without oversight until 25 at the earliest, do you plan to keep your kids in a controlled, tech-sterile environment until then? Don't get me wrong, I understand the impulse to protect our kids from the harm of this stuff but I'm not sure outright banning something everyone in modern society relies on to perform basic life tasks like their job is actually protecting them. My son has friends who aren't allowed tech at their homes. They are FIENDS for it when out from under their parents' eye. If allowed, they will sit like zombies for hours. I live in a crunchy town and watched it happen at 2 seperate birthday parties. Their parents had NO idea, the kids lied and downplayed it. My sister has recently reversed her no screens stance when she noticed the differences developing between her sons and mine. My son has been using such devices with careful oversight since early childhood and he happily chooses to spend his free time outside unsupervised vs supervised on a screen. There is no mystery or intrigue left there for him.
My mom has been a k-12 administrator for 30 years and according to her it isn't the tech that's the problem, it's lack of parental investment. People don't have time to pay attention to what is going on with their kids anymore, even when they want and try to. I don't mean to criticize, I genuinely hope it works out for your kiddos. It sounds like you have the investment though, maybe the sterile isolated homestead is overkill? Good luck friend!
@@aawillma I completely understand where @derek4412 is coming from, but I also agree with what you're saying here. I have an 8 year old, and I do not have the option to homeschool as I'm a single parent (that was not the plan when he was born, but here we are.) The resource I'm most short on is time. I work full time, and I manage my home alone. I cannot supervise him 24/7. He's going to have to learn how to navigate the internet because I'm not always going to be there to help him, unfortunately. Kids don't just magically develop critical thinking at 18-25, it has to be taught. I don't have the answers; we're all doing the best we can.
I do agree that there is an air of hopelessness and anxiety, but I don't know that taking kids out of society will be helpful. We desperately need opportunities to form community, but no one has any time and we're so spread out. I can barely make time to go see my best friend and her kids, and I've been really trying. The issue is that she lives about a half an hour away, and every weekend seems to be filled with activities and family events. When did that happen? I swear when I was growing up weekends were genuinely free time, and now they're not
This is why I don't understand the confusion around global birth rate decline. It's not some confusing mystery, it's an extremely obvious and natural response to the cost and risk of modern parenting. All the stable adults that I know who are considering a family think that if you can't do it right, you shouldn't do it at all. They also happen to be self-aware enough to understand that they either couldn't do it right, or that the cost of doing it right would be too much to bear. Apparently, according to the research, they're right.
Productive citizens are a valuable resource for societies, but until governments pony up the cash and culture to support parents, they will continue to lose access to that resource. FAFO 🤷
💯
Yeah it's crazy that there are even any doubts about why that's happening
They prefer to have new citizens from other countries which already beared the cost ...
@@xrayban2 please educate yourself about immigration instead of fearmongering
Perhaps, the solution is not to decide that you can't "do it right", but to redefine "right" for yourself and your family and create community with like-minded others.
So I'm a new foster parent and this is my first time dealing with schools outside of being a student myself and being an adjunct college professor. Omg. Parents. I am so sorry. I already hated administrators due to my experiences as a professor, but Jesus wept, They need to stop. This month alone they have scheduled 3 family activity nights and they to guilt the parents into showing up including telling the kids over and over that it's going to be a fun night and imply that they don't want to miss out. I work 40hrs. My husband works 40hrs. We are exhausted. We are burned out already and we've only been doing this 3 months. Everyone wants something from us and that not counting the poor kiddo who is the actual person that deserves our attention. Now this school wants me start showing up at 5:30 on a Tuesday night to let the kid go back and play with friends some more? No. I am done. I need time to recharge. This is when we have dinner. This time leads into bath time and reading time and bedtime. Routine is incredibly important for foster children. Please, Stop it. Let your teachers go home. Let us be at home. Let us reset. I am done. And I feel guilty for saying it and it makes me feel like I'm a failure and a bad foster parent for saying no we need to skip all this Bs. But I'm putting my foot down. We can't live like this. NONE of us, including bio parents. We need self care and for our family self care is family time after school and work and also time where the kiddo plays by himself and my husband and I do our own thing in the same vicinity where we're available but not actively engaging the entire time. I'm done with this school trying to bully us into spending all of our time with them for reasons that make zero sense to me. I am so damn tired and honestly, If our foster kiddo is able to reunite with his family (which is our goal, obviously), we're considering no longer fostering. It isnt the kid that is breaking us, it's the schools and all the hyper parenting expectations. Shit my parents didn't have to do when I was a kid in the 80s. So insane.
Hey..teacher......Leave the KIDS ALONE! (another brick in the wall..Pink Floyd) More freedom and more free play...let them figure shit out
Please make sure when you foster children, your foster child isn't a forced orphan from some type of criminal activity, fraud or trafficking scheme by our very own government. We need foster parents and parents to unite and stop this from happening to children. Same practice continues as did back in the 1850 with the orphan trains. Children need their biological families more than anything, even if it can't be mom and dad.
Administrators, the retail managers of education
As a teacher, ALL of this. We are required to be at these functions as part of our jobs, unpaid. As a parent, ALL of this. I can’t give to my children or my students from an empty well.
You don't have anything to be guilty about. You have a scheduling conflict with this school activity, that's all. You're giving yourself and your foster kid structure, which is job 1. The school is there to support that, not make extra demands of you. The educated class in the U.S. is way too deferent to educational institutions. Democracy is ultimately about trusting your own judgement as a reasonable adult.
I was raised by elderly relatives and they essentially left me to play on my own during the day and would interact with me at for a couple of hours before bed. That was it. Their health deteriorating caused more issues than them letting me alone. I knew how to amuse myself and learned to read at an early age. While I've never been the most outgoing person thanks to just being a natural introvert and homebody, I still had little to no trouble exploring or handling things.
This ouroboros of you and your kid being up each other's butts is the most draining thing I've ever done. My son is almost 5, and I have to fight to carve out time for myself because my husband and I both fell for the "Parent is a verb" stuff. I'm tired. My kid has trouble acclimating to not being the center of attention all the time to everyone, and it shows.
That third spaces have all but disappeared and with fewer kids in the neighborhood in general and my old head neighborhood especially has not helped.
I love my kid, I love him so much, but I want him to have the sort of childhood I had, that my husband had, playing in creeks and riding bikes, without me worrying, but I can't. With people having CPS on speed dial, with that woman in Texas being arrested for child abandonment on her front porch...It seems impossible.
I feel exactly the same way. I can't help thinking about all the things I felt free to do as a child that would now constitute neglect. He's 8 years old, why is it such a travesty if he plays in his own backyard without my supervision? As he gets older, I wonder if it will ever be socially acceptable for him to have a sleepover or go to summer camp? Or is that neglect because he could be exposed to creep? How is my kid supposed to make friends if I always have to be there?
Parental neglect is what had you and your husband doing "those things". That is the issue. you admit to being raised by elderly (parental neglect) which meant they had limited mobility and knowledge and personal investment in your life plan. They let you run free because of insufficient care they had to offer, not because children should run free unfettered as a standard. I have to children under 3, never spent a day away from them and don't plan on it Children belong in a loving home primarily. Streets and creeks are for much later when they have achieved stability in the home physically and emotionally.
@@louis-vd3urBeing away from home and trusted to do things by myself or with friends offered me a sense of agency and power. I am a fairly intensive parent, but I also let my kid play for hours outside with his friends. Kids have to learn to problem solve and deal with others without their parents.
That is not true. Children are not capable of empathy for friendships. They need adult guidance for much longer than the average slacker parent is willing to admit or work for. 50 years of preschool and there is record male unemployment and female birth rate decline. Seems like the bad skills everyone is learning is not helping anyone and is undermine g the family. Letting children wander is about leaving mother alone to work rest cook or clean, stop pretending they are learning anything from other children except bad habits....
@louis-vd3ur I am sure you are a wonderful parent, but those ideas are very incorrect. Where are you getting your information? You sound like you are already a very involved parent, but it might help you to take child psychology and development courses to learn more about how children actually develop and what they need. Too much hovering over children is as detrimental as too much freedom, just in different ways. Children absolutely do need free, unstructured play with others around their age to help develop social skills and problem solving and a sense of competence and resilience. They also need care and guidance and supervision from parents. It’s not either or. It’s a healthy balance of both, in age appropriate ways. I believe you said you have kids under 3, so intense supervision makes sense at that age. As they grow older, however, they need increasing amounts of freedom or they can develop problems such as a lack of confidence since they have never had to tackle a healthy challenge on their own. Again, everything should be incremental and age appropriate for their development and skill levels, but kids do need time around other kids and some freedom. Mom or dad can’t step in and do everything for them forever, nor is that healthy to foster that kind of dependency.
One thing about the lack of independence is that it doesn't have to come from the parents. A lot of kids live in neighborhoods that are very isolated, spaced out, and far away from everything and they need to rely on parents to take them places and see friends. And that option isn't always available and as a result, technology creeps in to fill that gap in interaction. That's where our environment can start to trap us.
Wow very true. Do u know any reading material on what you just commented?
This is so true. I have a couple of nieces and nephews who are really screwed up for this reason. And their mom thinks she did a great job.
@@RebeccaRobbins-p9xNotJustBikes has a great video on raising children in the US/Canada compared to Europe. It's a good place to start
m.th-cam.com/video/oHlpmxLTxpw/w-d-xo.html
It is WILD to me the amount of mental gymnastics it takes to turn "parenting is becoming a public health hazard" into "this is because of how people are choosing to parent". The US is ACTIVELY promoting toxic individualism as an ideal. The US is the only developed country that deprives its citizens of parental leave and universal healthcare. Its the only developed country that forces families to put their newborn infants into group care with strangers. The US actively passes legislation that ensures kids are at very real risk of gun violence. It actively promotes the persecution of certain children and families. And huge shocker, the US is the only place where parenting messes up parents enough to be considered a public health crisis. AND instead of looking the very obvious social factors that make parenting so overwhelming in the US compared to other developed countries, folks are gonna pretend it's about individual parenting choices and individual psychology. Whatever it takes to avoid having to face what you are actively and intentionally doing, as a country, huh?
There's something bigger going on in the world. European nations highest happiness ratings and best social safety nets are experiencing declining birth rates. Russia a nation that has always ex told some sort of misery on its population has a declining birth rate like they've never seen. China has pulled more people out of poverty in a shorter time period than any country in history has a rapidly declining birth rate. I really think Japan is the one to watch because they are further down this road then all the other nations in the world.
@mrsmegz while humans don't believe it by individual standards, together as a group we act as a large organism. The earth is changing physically and spiritually (changing religious power) and politically. Humans recognize this change and adapt. It is not the end of the world for population decline. It could be a self correcting measure, but regardless of what a few of us individually believe, the organism is shrinking. Neither good nor bad. What we should do is think about the effects this shrink will make: what will be problems and what will be a benefit. If you can learn to find solutions to the problems creatively with low resources, you can begin your journey to actual wealth.
America is very very backwards on so many levels...the poverty, the medical insurance scam system, and don't get me started on rhe fact ots even remotely possible that a 34 x convicted felon can run for President, much less it be a close race 🤯🤯🤯
Yeah, what's happening everywhere is that parenting offers very little attractive for prospective parents. From the economic standpoint to how society will judge you and how institutions and public policy and urban planning will ignore you and your kid's needs. And later on, when having your kids turn into adults, society will not expect anything from them as sons and daughters. They can even publish a book called "I'm glad my mom is dead" and be interviewed and adored everywhere. I bet that wouldn't happen with the title: "I'm glad my daughter is dead". If your kids are as@h@les it's supposedly you fault. So in short,
now you get no social or economic advantages as a parent but carry a huge financial and emotional risk. Humanity deserves a low birth rate.
Preach it! You hit it on the nail. You're never going to harm your kid by being connected with them. You will harm your kid when you ignore/neglect them. Not to mention the costs of everything has gone up. Healthcare. Education. Global Warming etc.
What is the dating market value of a parent who lives in poverty but takes their kids to museums and does crafts with them? Pretty low. Society does not appreciate love as much as success.
That is so rare it’s almost a myth. Poverty exists with other issues like domestic violence and addiction and mental health issues etc.
@@lijohnyoutube101 you are right! But exactly the problem! Society demands of us the "symptoms" of being a good person and uses wealth vs. Poverty as the identifiable measure, forcing everyone into the rat race. Our children pay the price. I live well below the poverty line with wife and three kids because we love our family more than our jobs. (Which we also love!)
@@lijohnyoutube101 not true
@@moonhunter9993 soooooooo many mountains of research studies say I am correct.
I think "market value" is your error. Somethings are beyond capitalism to value correctly (love, relationships, family, the environment, community). Seeking wisdom in a capitalistic system of valuation is afool's errand.
This is a symptom of the monetization of all aspects of human life and culture. Our housing has been financialized to the point where nobody can afford to stay home and parent. Child care and education and parenthood have been monetized and commercialized. Children's play has been commercialized to the extent that every activity requires equipment, a subscription, and organized activity with expensive facilities. We let our kids play in the neighborhood park and with kids from down the street, but on any given day there's only two or three kids in the entire neighborhood around to play with. Everyone else is at daycare or band camp or hockey practice or martial arts lessons. These activities are great, but the lack of free time and free play that are kids have is a real problem for their development and it's all based around the constant need to make more money out of every aspect of life.
Another stressor to add on to modern parents is the grandparents (IN GENERAL) are way less attentive and helpful than they used to be. (If that is not your experience you are incredibly lucky) They are also not understanding or empathetic to the issues. They tend to think that they had just as hard a time as we do, and no amount of data or self reflection IF they are even willing to engage in it, will change that. I understand this is a big generalization, but as an elder Millennial, with boomer parents, multiple sets bc of multiple divorces- they have all been mostly no help at all with our son, and I know SO many people of my generation, in my situation with unhelpful parents as well. It truly seems to be a generational phenomenon.
Most of our friends with children also have boomer parents who are mostly off on cruises and doing their own things, or otherwise live far away (ours in other countries).
Grandparents are also working full time.
I agree.
@@kikijewell2967 no, mine have been retired for years
Currently seeing this with my boomer mom. Chooses to live in another state playing pickleball with other 70-year-olds than getting to know her grandson.
I’m a new mother of an 11 month old and I am their primary caregiver. I have been shocked and overwhelmed by all the guidelines to raising a child, both from the internet and their pediatrician. No screens allowed, read every day, get enough tummy time, no processed foods, breast is best, give them vitamin D and probiotics, buy the best Montessori toys, wear your carrier correctly or you will ruin their hips, do a bedtime routine every night, oh and don’t cosleep, you will kill your child! I don’t have enough time in the day to feed myself and shower, let alone follow all the “rules”
All I want fixed as a parent at this point is for public schools to please be decent and safe. Becoming a parent is really hard, but it's a worthwhile challenge. It's extra hard when we're so judged. Society gives us pretty much all problems and little support. Having kids is not the problem, society is. Just reading the comments here is depressing. So much judgement. A lot of parents acting like they're better than the other. A lot of people who aren't parents telling parents they're doing it wrong. And as you try to blow off a little steam... what you get back is always "this is why I don't have kids." Yeah, thanks. So helpful.
I was raised in Europe and moved to the states at age 20. Now in my 40s with one child. A few huge red flags I’ve noticed in the US:
- from birth children rearing is a business ( babysitters, kindergarten = $$). Conditions are deplorable, yet equal a single income for a month’s worth.
- no play time for free (after school $$, activities $$)
- parents in the 🇺🇸 vet their children’s friends by vetting their parents. If you happen to have a diff than an American last name, good luck getting a “yes” to a play date or a birthdate. I feel like a leper 🤣. Segregation anyone?!
- children nowadays are signed up for 4 activities per week to make sure they are involved with something outside of their classroom. Yet, I find it mind-boggling that they see their grand-parents three times a year - at their birthday, thanksgiving and Christmas.
- everyone spews out parenting advice, books, podcasts, has an opinion, but refuses to have children.
As a young mother of three I was convinced that whatever was hardest was exactly what the experts would recommend to me. For example, breast is best, don't use a microwave to heat up milk (even after shaking) every meal should be homemade because convenient foods are junk foods, don't work too much and it is best to not work at all to provide the best care for them, you should homeschool, you should secure playdates and sign them up for 100 activities, etc.
No expert advises homeschooling though...
I couldn’t agree more, this is exactly how I feel.
It's true. And most of those "experts" are men who are likely not primary caregivers. Not credible sources of expertise at all.
are you ok?
OMG. Homeschool? So now mothers are English, Maths and physics teacher in one, plus they are parents, plus they earn money plus they cook? Wow.
I’m 27 years old and my mom died when I was 10. This put into words what I’ve been feeling as to why I don’t want kids in the states
I'm 50, I'm so glad I didn't have kids. I wanted a baby on my 20s so I'd have 'someone to love me' - I had no clue. Thankfully, I saw through orher people how hard parenting is, and I decided hell no. Farbfrom "regretting" my choice as I got older, it just became more solidified
And that's why you listen to parenting advice videos. Hilarious your not fooling anyone.
@@jackpotbear4559 and why are you here, exactly
Your input is irrelevant.
Thank god.
Between the pressures of work, the pressures of parenting, the vilification of parents by psychology, the pressure to not care what others think, and the pressure to be happy, it ended up being a good thing that I never gave birth.
I’m not fulfilled, but at least I didn’t create more humans.
Preach it 👏
100 percent, we had two toddlers when we felt ready. Good income, stable housing. I had my first ultrasound when the lockdown kicked in.
It’s been so hard. There is so little support and it’s so expensive I can’t function. I read articles every week saying I’m abusing my kids if I don’t do all this extra labor. I also worry so much about shootings and the way climate change already is burning down my state..:. I don’t know what we are suppose to do to fix this. Child care is more than my income so I can’t go back to work to fix our finances either.
Thank you for highlighting this issue more and I’m glad a bulletin came out. That was the first time my parents took me seriously when I told them how hard this has been on us
Seriously. There is no support anywhere
Try trusting yourself more and reading these articles less. Stay away from social media - comparing your real life to others commercials for their life is a recipe for misery.
Include your children in things you enjoy (if you like taking a walk, walk with them; if you enjoy browsing in the library, bring them - let them pick their books and then let them help you while you pick yours, they can carry their books or sit quietly and look at a book while you pick yours). While your kids are little and want to help, let them help - it takes longer when they are little but will pay big dividends as they get older, are used to helping and are contributing.
Spend time just being together - you are reading a book while they are playing or reading their books. They are playing with toys while you cook. Tidy up together - see if they can beat the timer to get all their toys in the toy box/ basket. If you know like-minded parents, perhaps you can trade play dates, where each of you takes turns with the kids, while the other gets some down time.
Please keep in mind that the toddler years are one of the most physically intense (because of their need for constant supervision). This will lessen as they get older and then other needs will take precedence. Instead of parenting articles, consider reading some child development articles which help you know the stages of development, what to expect and some research-based methods of handling common issues.
I agree with tuning out social media, but honestly including toddlers in things you like to do just ruins those things… it becomes a different kind of pressure. God bless my mom who always encourages me to just get through the darn day. It gets easier after 5. Problems get more complicated as they get older, but I have older kids and a toddler and older kids are way, WAY easier. Life comes back. Just get through the day.
Missing from this podcast: enforcement mechanisms.
Mandatory reporting. CPS. Dept of health and human services. Etc
Enforcement is much more severe than it was in years past, and failure to engage in “intensive parenting” can result in mandatory reporting.
I agree! I kept waiting and never once did they mention it's actually ILLEGAL most places to allow your children to even walk to school on their own, let alone play in the street/parks. And that CPS can jump in and steal them if someone reports on you. Not to mention, even if it wasn't, our parks and streets have been taken over by homeless mentally ill people where I live, so I couldn't let the kids out there alone for that reason either.
Right, I’ve to kindly reminded a lot of older folks in my life that’s it’s illegal to parent the way they parent us.
I use to sleep in the trunk space in our mini van on long car rides. My parents use to to leave us at an arcade all day as elementary age. Now there are” do not leave your kids unattended” signs at those kinds of places, which chances they’ll call the cops.
I was at baby shower last weekend and the conversation between parents was casually talking about the lies you are force to tell your child’s pediatrician about your parenting choices , out of fear of being reported. Things like lying about how newborn is sleeping in a crib and not co sleeping, or feeding baby food before 6 months, having newborn laying to long in a swing.
It’s definitely a related stressor for most parents, that our grandparents didn’t have.
Just here to say that homeless are victims of street violence more than they are ever the aggressors and children are usually the ones harming elderly because of what adult a have told them. Homeless run rampant in my area and they always have a nice word and smile for my child. But as Catholics we teach pity and sympathy for the poor, not reactionary fear and misunderstanding. I always imagine this could be my son/daughter and cry when I see them. Such poor souls
@@louis-vd3ur The way we treat the homeless in this country is monstrous. Good on you for being better than most.
Free-ranging only works when the parents are still actively involved in their kid's lives. I currently live in a neighborhood where you can describe the kids as more "feral" than free...
Free range also needs a community. Safety, authority figures you can trust and a many children doing the same thing. I cannot raise a free range child when no on else is.
Glorious
I left teaching because my students threatened to kill me, parents did nothing and the principle did not even want to know. Yes, kids are messed up mostly likely because of the parents but come on there has to be responsibility and accountability from the parents.
Most parents these days are just sex freaks who have babies. They are immoral, unethical, and deranged. Godless beings set on living empty lives of destruction. Homeschooling families are the only real ones left.....
Your students threatened to KILL you??????????? WTF for? Wow.
Kids walking to school is down to 11% from 48% from the 1970s. America is so car centric parents have to drive kids everywhere. Autos kill 7500 pedestrians a year which is greatly up. Kids are given so little autonomy parents have to arrange everything. We need to make safely walkable neighborhoods to give kids autonomy and parents a break.
39 year old, single, never married, no kids.
Advancing in career, better shape than ever, great hobbies
My married friends…easy to see why I had no kids
Good luck go cope harder
Mmmmm
You need better friends.
Bingo
@@survivingthetimesyou need to get your eyes and head examined
Intensive parenting is what we used to call helicopter parents. It is not good for children or parents. Children must be given chances to explore and be independent.
But safe places to explore are gradually shrinking.
@@xrayban2 That's not true. If anything neighborhoods are safer.
There's a big difference between teaching your child age appropriate independence & dumping your own adult responsibilities onto them because you took on too much. Many parents these days fall into the latter category
@@SarahMarie-j2n Considering the vast majority of parents now are helicopter or "intensive" parents, your statement is just untrue
@@D34d1y1crime is often less - traffic and danger to pedestrians from taller vehicles and pedestrian deaths are way up.
Like regular parents don't know that the parents who graduated from Ivy+ schools are hiring highly trained, three-language-speaking tutor-nanny combos. In the mean time, three regular jobs in the fam doesn't close the retirement gap, much less tuition in umteen years at one of the Ivy+ schools... that ensures a network to get a slightly-better than regular job, one that actually pays the bills. While those MBAs from those schools are blazing the trail right along side Boeing & BlackRock.
But sure, let's cut taxes on the wealthy and corporations because Trump, not even from elected office, killed the bipartisan immigration bill and is successful at keeping Midwest moms terrified.
Parenting doesn't happen in a vacuum. Where we are with wealth and income inequality needs to matter to all of us, for so very, very many reasons, and we need to get involved.
I think the point of the video is why are we so invested in the child going to an ivy in the first place? It's the subjective value everyone gives to this that makes the rich stay rich. If we all realized the idea of ivies being better is far from true, then maybe that basis for inequality would be eroded. But nope. We are all obsessed with the kids going to the ivies and of course nobody can compete with high income earners on this.
Me and my lady work in tech. We have no clue how people do this and raise a kid. She works 10+ a day and I work a bunch too. Make good money but not enough to buy a house here in the bay area so no kids for us. The only people I see here with kids are the PMC people with tons of money and 1 or 2 kids or borderline homeless people with 8. The middle just doesn’t try.
This is a real crisis, and I totally feel for you, but can't help myself: I cannot believe you call your partner "m'lady" and are still partnered with her.
Unionize.
Also not everything will be perfect but your efforts will not be in vain. You wont know until u r in the scenario
@@BuNnyDuDeDaRoO I agree 100%. A few friends have already tried at a large tech company. The vote failed and then they all got fired illegally.
@@odbhut424 lol, good one. :)
You don't need a house in the 'burbs to raise kids.
What's funny is now parents will be talking to their therapists and doctors about how dangerous it is to be a parent. It's like another anxiety to treat.
This podcast could talk about fecal matter I'd still listen because Michael's and his crew don't SCREAM like almost every other channel. They almost whisper..its so refreshing.
There are so many great possible topics:
Fecal transplants for patients with treatment-resistant _Clostridium difficile_ colitis
Population-level monitoring of the virome (virus biome) using wastewater
The archeology of coproliths
The public health effects of a demolished fresh- and wastewater infrastructure in Gaza
The rising incidence of colorectal cancers among people under 50, and if there's any association with constipation and a Western diet
A society facing they ruined a planet should think about their own maturity very seriously.
Omfg "Intensive Parenting" meaning our Boomer parents built a world with no side walks, locked us out of the house all day with a water hose to drink from and beat us bloody for sport were doing it right..... (???)
Instead folks had kids and wanted them to feel secure and loved and not be assholes ... but they shouldn't feel guilty for existing
You know, the opposite of what we had
💯👏
I agree
Actually: I am very glad that people are showing how joyful it can be to be parents. I can also understand the small -c conservative view that kids should have independence and play outside and frankly: when I was very young that was exactly what I had. I have no children. I married with 26, moved country and into a different culture, and started full time university with my 3rd language at the same time...and I think I overdid it. My husband was great and would have been a great dad. However, by that time, I thought maybe we should have children, (by this time we had already real issues in our relationship, but I wanted to save it and start a fresh page) I came off the contraceptive pill...and everything changed. I literally couldn't stand my husband's smell anymore. I know that sounds weird. I went to the DR asking if this could have been the pill. He told me that this was definitely not an issue and asked whether it was psychological. I asked my husband to come to couple counselling and he refused he was more conservative and felt this was invasive. A little later I left. WE divorced. By this time I was 32. And things changed. In the hospital where I worked, I had to work with a woman who irritated the death out of me. It took me 6 months to understand I was sexually attracted. Then it took me another 6 months to NOT think that I lived in an upside-down world. Now I am married to a woman. We have been together for 20 years and I am happy. All that to say: Things happen in life.
The whole culture war about kids or no kids and how this is being tied to good versus bad is just useless. Our culture has changed drastically and it will take time for people to FIND their ways. But General anxiety, aggression and fearmongering, be it the climate crisis or the faltering demographic do NOTHING to encourage happy parenting. And as Clinton said: It takes a village. It takes more than ONE or TWO people to bring up the children. Rising distrust be it in family or professionals really doesn't help.
I was raised among Depression Era Elders that were my partners in crime, getting up to a lot of minor mischief. I also worked alongside my parents on family projects, and worked outside the home at a young age. It was riskier as far as injury was concerned, but made me very independent, curious, and skilled.
Being at the end of the Baby-boom Generation and surrounded by Seventy and Ninety Year Olds, was a rather rare and wonderful opportunity. My own children have had a mix of their mother's attentive parenting, and my spending much of our time together working on projects, hopefully some of which were one's that they chose or were happy with.
Well now that teachers are straight jacketed, they can't teach our kids so we need to do it at home smh
Its not just hovering over your children. The truth is they both are working. Then try to compensate for that. I am happy we were poor and I was able to stay home in their formative years, Its not good for the children, who need to learn for themselves,
Why is it happening? Smaller families, more awareness of predators. Its exhausting for the kids and parents. Its too much.
Our son just started 7th grade and there's talk of 'grades' and 'SAT's' and 'college acceptance' already and an odd sort of status building in that with many other friends and parents.
This entire podcast reminds me so much of Didi Pickles from Rugrats, the criticism of relying on Dr Lipschitz and how it got magnified by social media. Some things never change hah: but yet it all hits so different now.
The problem is that the Didi’s of the world won
It takes a toll on a society, seeing a generation of kids do less well than their parents and see life expectancy drop for the first time. Both things we can attribute to record wealth and income inequality, because they make upward socioeconomic even more elusive.
To be clear, the parents paying for their kids to be in private club soccer by 7 are the ones locking working-class kids out from opportunity, especially when it comes time for post-secondary education. Policymakers can and should do more _through legislation_ to keep the American dream alive.
The American Dream does not exist. Especially with the 1980 Money Act allowing rampant credit. American wealth does not exist and is not necessary for family life. The loss of a moral order and faith based life is why Americans can not obey natural human reasoning and have families.
We don't currently have record income inequality, this is nothing compared to the late 1800's.
@@SpocksCat but certainly since the New Deal. No one from the late 1800s is alive (in a meaningful number). People behave based on how they did or how they're doing compared to the generation that preceded them
I'm so glad we are talking about this. ❤
Unpopular opinion but true --All of the parents I know who are unhappy and struggling are the ones who didn't stop with one. This idea that you *must* have more than one child is the problem.
And far too many people have gone into parenting without understanding the *modern* social contract.
Data supports this
Your sample may not be completely representative. We have 2 (would have had more if physically able) and are happy. I know many happy parents with more than 1 child - but they do not subscribe to this intensive parenting and they choose to associate with like-minded parents. Unfortunately, many parenting trends run to extremes. If you can find the middle - a middle in line with your values - you are much more likely to be happy parenting.
I have three and am HAPPY, but exhausted 😅
I have three and am super happy. But I have a walkable road, tons of woods, independent kiddos, good neighbors, involved grandparents, stable income and good health benefits. I wonder why I’m happy? Privelege.
I work in education, and I am not seeing "intensive parenting" at all. I am seeing ipad kids.
Really great that this did not discuss COVID at all.
So many words on professional and financial achievements, so little on emotional regulation, stability, security. Intensive parenting is not a break but a continuity of unhealthy parenting styles in an unhealthy society. Parents lacking emotional maturity in many many cases and society are peer pressuring each other into horrible expectations, and so the cycle continues.
Good comment.
Read “the Coddling of the American Mind: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas Are Setting Up a Generation for Failure” it’s remarkable. They start by talking about how the peanut allergy panic causes schools to ban it, then peanut allergies skyrocketed.
Peanut allergies are in fact real and kill people. I sincerely hope no one takes your comment seriously.
Thank you for this podcast🙃. Really hoping you can talk about single parenting with this trope of intensive parenting.
This is a little ridiculous..
Think about our evolutionary history of parent child bonds..
They were always with us..
They were always exercising, working, learning by our side.
It is only in the development of complex societies and governments that we lost our attentive connection with our parents and children.
The science is showing us that we need that community and connection that we always had.
Absolutely. Imagine if we raised our children in groups rather than families isolated in individual homes.
Imagine if we created a society that prioritised the well-being of its citizens.
The group already exists, it's called family. Sex freaks should not have children. They are the ones creating this problem. Family is how you raise children and base who you marry. Outside of that women love to choose low earning men who they have to support so that they do not have to be wife and mother. Modern women like being whores. Whores on principle do not have families, they destroy them
Tiny children yes. Older children were often cared for by the group, they weren’t glued to their parents’ side all the time
The government could make it less stressful by getting rid of laws that require carseats after age 2 (at which point they have negligible safety effects.) These laws increase the costs by requiring much bigger cars-the 8 year old car seats are HUGE. And get rid of laws that don't allow children to play outside unsupervised until they're 14 or even stay at home alone until that age; these laws aren't healthy for kids who need to start experiencing independence, and increase the cost of raising children. I was babysitting when I was twelve back in the 80s.
Less financial burden on younger couples (see HOUSING) and less helicopter over parenting would solve our massive declining birth rate issue.
“Attachment” parenting was the buzzword for me when my kids were babies. At school age I definitely felt the societal pressure to be “Intense” but our kids didn’t want to be involved in all the extracurriculars so I followed their lead. The guilt was definitely still there though.
Also, kids seem to need continual mental health checks regarding social media use and their texting relationships. Parents don’t meet or see many of these friends who still influence their kids, sometimes badly or bullying. Also, parents are held accountable legally for their teens crimes….often also for hidden communications they never see.
Parents these days make it difficult on themselves. I have a 12 year old, and I'm not stressed out at all. Maybe because I don't listen to so-called experts and all their bufoonery.
Yes, there are too many people who act like stage managers more than parents and fawn over their progeny as if they are a mere reflection of themselves. And, we know the feeling of have a school expect parents to be involved in every aspect of our child's schooling and school events. But, it's not okay to label parents who have a healthy balance that suits their own family's characteristics as bad parents by others who may not be nurturing their children as much as they should. Every child is different and it's not enough to tell your child "suck it up" and "deal with it on your own".
If I were watching TV with my mom or dad and they hit the pause button to explain something to me, I would be pissed.
I’m a mom and I do this with my 7yo son. I know it irritates him but sometimes I’m just like I’ve got to give him the 411 on what a word or phrase means. Despite being irritated when I do it, he does it for me now too sometimes. So, not sorry!
You have to do it. YT and random videos etc. are no longer "vetted" for accuracy or even express reasonable opinions. I can't protect my kid from all these opinions but I can help them to put it into perspective.
@@moonhunter9993 If I was a kid, I would want my mom or dad to explain it to me AFTER the video. Also, my mother and father weren't a good source for telling me whether or not something was accurate anyway. They didn't really understand me. I'm not saying that as a "10 year old". I am almost 60 now, and yes, even at this age I can say that they didn't understand me.
I do this to my kids and they’re like WE JUST WANT TO WATCH THE MOVIE 😂😂😂😂
@@themasterspiece5669 Yeah, I sometimes wonder whether or not these "experts" really have kids given the shit advice they give. Or if they have kids, if they ever really interact with them much or if they spend their entire time doing "research" and have someone else raise them.
There is something much more insidious going on: parents do not know how to raise kids who respect them. That's why they are burnt out. Commanding respect is seen as a right wing authoritarian tendency, and parents are judged more harshly if they punish their child then if their child punishes them.
Yes, the ideal is “authoritative” parenting, not passive parenting nor authoritarian parenting, there’s a solid & effective middle ground.
The other day this barely dressed woman in the street attacked me for disciplining my son. Discipline needs to happen in public and private. Too many people do not believe that. They are chronically emotionally immature because their own parents failed. Americans are seriously fundamentally disordered.
@@fleurosea and yet, for the layman, authoritative rhymes more with authoritarian than with permissive.
I think the issue is often that this intensive/authoritative parenting is meant for people with high enough income to support their child while working for less hours. So when people law down the law/have the high expectations for their children (which are shown to be good when they are supported) the parents don’t have enough energy in the tank to back it up.
“Do your homework!” Is meaningless if it hasn’t been made part of the decompression routine after school. “Clean your room!” Is boring and unproductive when they have never been shown what to do, outside of putting toys in boxes.
People get so up in arms about what they feed their kids (information and food), but they do it without the structure and direction that is necessary. Because they have been told that kids are squishy sponges that need to be protected, but they also need to be given the supplies and opportunities to work on their own in manageable chunks.
My mom did the music thing while I was in her womb. I was the oldest and this wasn't continued for my siblings and my childhood was self instructed. But I did talk hella early so maybe it gave me a boost.
Who else was a latchkey kid who’s now a helicopter hyper parent??! 🙋🏾♀️😅
the pendulum swings....
After pausing a couple times to tamp down my irritation, I ultimately came away from this thinking that the take could have been more nuanced. There could have been more specific moments when they broke down the "expert" advice and discussed its pros and cons (such as watching a show once with your kids and not all the time). In this age where mis and disinformation is proliferating, I think this kind of advice still has a place but needs to be applied in more strategic ways rather than as a blunt instrument. The podcast appeared to poo-poo the idea altogether, and that's not great.
The bit about social media's impact on parents/parenting is also underexplored, although I recognize it could be a whole podcast series in itself. Aside from comparison, the way parents can become absorbed in social media themselves and start using their kids for clout is also a problem, and I'd have liked to see that conversation at least alluded to here. I see so much chatter about the negative impacts of social media on kids. To me, the downsides it presents for adults gets short shrift in the larger discussion. I think that's a low down dirty shame.
The biggest thing to me, though, is that everyone involved may have overlooked something: how those involved in parenting research deliver their messages. I say involved in research and not experts because (going back to the social media aspect for a moment) not everyone on Instagram is an expert. Some parenting influencers are doing little more than cosplaying as therapists, and to me that's outright harmful. I think the commentators AND the surgeon general missed a golden opportunity to talk about this aspect of parenting culture that needs to change and needs to change fast. Phrasing and presentation of parenting advice increase that sense of competition and reinforce the idea that having little to no identity outside of being a parent is a good thing. We need to dive into the presentation aspect as well as the content. After all, we've seen (for better or worse) just how effective presentation can be.
Wow -That was actually a great piece!! The articulation of evolution to the current state of things is spot on as I myself lived through the time line duscussed. Telling though that after all that expert research the only real offering of tangible solution was ' gift yourself letting them watch TV for an hour without feeling guilty ( since their might not be other kids to free range with) = so the there's this hard to avoid loop - I thank godd I grew up in a household where TV/ screen time was minimized and you had to do non screen activities UNFORTUNATELY now they just leave and roll over to a friend's screen filled household
I am so tired of being so hands on with my kids. If I’m not they throw fits, police and cps come around. My life literally revolves around my kids and their disruptive behavior.
Kids are supposed to play together and lean from each other. That has been taken away.
How do ignorant children learn from each other?
@@louis-vd3urSame way puppies learn by playing with their litter mates. Curiosity, exploration, interaction, practice, trial and error, cooperation and competition. Play is learning.
My parents certainly did not do this style of parenting. I was born in 1955. They modeled curiosity and creativity and intelligence through their normal lives. We were not held by the hand, driven to dozens of extracurricular activities or played with by our parent. We were left to learn about the world, about social dynamics and physical activity on our own and it happened perfectly well that way. I was a straight A student through college, athletic, and socially functional. I ran successful small businesses through my life and wound up financially comfortably. Kids learn about the world naturally on their own.
Most parents have no idea how to raise children.😢
I wish Jonathan Haidt could come in and debate their approach
That's crazy cuz most of the people that have children don't know everything and teaching your kids stupid s*** doesn't always work
I thought parents now were paying less attention to their kids, i.e., sticking tablets or IPads in their faces. But this research is suggesting something different? Interesting
The bottom line is......parent the way that you feel comfortable, because you would hear this podcast today and tomorrow you will hear intensive parenting is the bees knees.
Fascinating discussion!
Yeah, as soon as I got to the part in “The Jungle” where Jurgis learns his infant son drowned in mud in the street and his other son was forced to live on his own at 11 because the family couldn’t support him I thought “geez those parents back in the 1800s had it easy.”
Parents are the worst these days
soccer club for kindergartners is just baby nepotism by another name. "oh youre too tired to network for little Timmy? im so sorry. My little River is besties with little Phoenix and little Phonix aunt is the director for this prestigious school!, you really shouldnt miss out!"
I believe parents enroll so that toddlers can have motor skills, they can meet other parents, and they can have childcare consistently and reliably. Nepotism doesn't fit.....
@@louis-vd3ur I believe that you should look up the definition of nepotism because it absolutely does fit
Seriously, I can’t stand this side of activities.
they need to read Bryan Caplan
Another incredibly important and informative episode!!
This topic makes me sick, and to quote a classic, "I can't eat nearly as much as I want to vomit." Apocalypse anxiety, rat race, social media - the world is circling the drain.
So validating 😅
Can confirm 😅
I think it is more accurate to say "intensive parenting" is a trend of coastal middle and upper class professional parents. I doubt if most parents in the US are worried about getting their kindergartener a tutor. In fact, the main problem in our schools right now, not mentioned by Ms. Miller, is a truancy crisis - 25% of primary school kids are not attending school enough to be promoted to the next grade! 35% in poor neighborhoods. Their parents aren't bothering to make them get an education! "Intensive parenting burnout" is one of those problems of activist parents that gets inordinate attention from New York Times columnists.
I always wonder if this truancy problem is just because they keep track of it more now. I missed a ton of school when I was a kid because I was exhausted and would just refuse to get up. Maybe there was a truancy policy, but it definitely wasn’t enforced. I missed more than 40 days one year. It didn’t effect my grades and the school didn’t say anything about it. Now I’m constantly stressed out trying to force my kids to push the hell out of themselves to stay within the attendance policy, which is ten days. I’m allowed more absences at my job than my kids are at school. Forget it if they get the flu, because that’s gonna take half the absences right off the bat most of the time. I basically have panic attacks if I can’t get flu shots for them, because I know it’s gonna be a disaster.
Oh, it’s also an issue with funding for rich districts. They just enforce it by emailing people every so often/calling them into the guidance office to tell them they only have a few absences left. (Even then I’ve heard stories about people who technically didn’t meet the requirements to graduate, but they really don’t want to fail someone and let it slide.)
Oh, they definitely keep track of it more. You hear stories from older people/in the media where they skipped school as teens, but if you don’t tell someone you aren’t going then there can be police reports nowadays.
@@lolz-f6c There is definitely fewer kids attending, its not just more tracking. I think there are a number of causes:
1) During Covid school closures a large proportion of US schoolkids fell behind by a year or more. That much time lost is very difficult to catch up; they cannot follow what is going on in class. The negative reportcards just put kids and parents into depression, the kids don't want to go, and parents give up.
2) Covid changed work culture so many more people telecommute. Previously, when people worked in offices 5 days a week, they needed school as childcare. Now they can watch their kids at home
3) MAGA and Fox News propaganda convinces conservative people that all schools teach kids is woke critical race theory and groom them to be trans. So some are afraid
4) There is the "unschooling" movement telling parents schools are too regimented and their kids will learn to read and write on their own without instruction (unbelievably misinformed!)
@@emmakane6848 They've been more closely enforcing attendance for a long time - ever since the 1980s school reform, as a reaction to the 1970s practice of "social passing" kids to the next grade, which resulted in some kids graduating high school without being able to read and write!!!
How is this different than the stresses of helicopter parenting?
the content was good but every bit with music felt maddening to me. it's more interruptive than the edit it surrounds and slows the flow of the show in a was I find very irritating.
Where can I tune in to America’s Top Doctor?
Why are random sounds rampant in this recording? So distracting.
Cool. You guys did a podcast about me!
Here's a crazy insight: we're all going to die. You, me, our kids, their kids, everyone. What is all this striving for? Enjoy life. It's the best lesson you can teach your kids.
Mmmmm
Take a look at the natural world. Have you ever seen a moose, otter, duck, etc. reading parenting books or committing their offspring to year round club sports?
Yet somehow they know what to do. If there is one thing that humans are really good at, it's that we can complicate the crap out of anything.
Haha as a stressed parent you all have lost the plot. This is like issue #1,001 contributing to the decline in my health. If we want to talk about why parenting is a health crisis let’s actually talk about that. Starting at the top.
Please tell us
I was raised in the mid '90s too early 2000s by a single mom who had total five kids She was very much free range laid back. For example I've never in my life done any homework should well you should do your homework like yeah I'm not going to but you go Well I can't make it do anything so I guess he won't. All of my siblings and myself grew up by an hour and a 30 so we have families and kids houses and are either business owners or upper middle class. Probably some balance in between would be ideal but I think most of it is just kids as adults will be what they will be there's so much you can do as a parent to change that.
Selfdomestication
It feels to me that you’re missing the context of the parents having in common being the first generation to parent in the age of social media / hyper-connected populations. Most of the parents have yet to figure out a configuration that supports their emotional and psychological wellbeing while guarding against inherent risks of highly compliant, agreeable and conscientious types to not take random input as gospel.
Let’s see what that does to the next generation of presumptive parents.
Finally, I now understand why my wife is nuts.
The kids do NOT have to do better than the parents. They can have perfectly decent lives if they have less. Sometimes less is more.
Well I just sent this to a bunch of parents I know
“Parental rights” is just a rationale to treat children like chattel
I think it is much more than that
I wonder if some of this is due to a decrease in religion. I don't do this. I spend time with my kids and give them attention, but I also give them space - to be bored, to figure things out. I think this is because I have always seen them as a gift from God and trust that He will watch over them. I also think about the implications of making children the center of things and giving them the misimpression that their parents have no needs. I ask for my kids help with chores and explain that we all live together and mom and dad can't do everything.
Our culture is hyper-competitive, but we as parents don't have to choose that for ourselves and our families. For me, it helps to have Christianity as an alternate worldview to the hyper-competitive, materialism of our culture.
Why doth thou hate children so much?
Product of individualistic society i suppose
Thirsty for Brawndo
The third child is so important. The great liberation of exhausted perfect parents and older siblings. Grandparents should always carry a tablet when providing those free baby sitting seasons. Teach the precious little grandchildren how to down load turtle shows from TH-cam to yourphone. Read a few books as well. Playgrounds are great for relaxing ones supervision a little and for single grandpas the need for green cards definitely improves the dating marketability. Oh , I am sorry your Highness the tattler, I meant to say stupendously... But know, that ain't even a word. Kids are fighting. Sorry, got to go.
Paid for by the cat lobby.
Oh god. Get ahold of yourselves. Stop helicopter parenting and stop calling everything a crisis.
These hosts are clueless
It because grandparents are not tryna help - baby boomers still living their best lives
There is such a a small cohort of America that parents like what you say. That you folks are completely absorbed in your own tiny bubble is cute.
Oh yeah, and the nuclear family with a stay at home mom is horrible for the nation!! What a bunch of psychopaths.
Who cares if the parents "aren't alright" they're adults for Pete's sake, they made all of the decisions that got them to where they are today. Their children didn't ask to be born into this mess. No one forced these people into parenthood, they chose it. Actual parenting is hard, really hard & not for the faint of heart. I think the bigger problem is neglectful & absent parents, which is likely why we've experienced such a huge uptick in behavioral issues & normal human responses in children being overly diagnosed. Not to mention the gross over medication of young children, bullying, school shootings, childhood trauma and other entirely preventable tragedies. These parents need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps & sleep in the beds they made.
Clearly doesn’t have kids
Wow. You obviously have never been a parent
It must be nice to think you aren’t a part of a society.