Can we all take a minute to reflect how far we've come in terms of understanding our tanks in such a short period of time? Remember, less than 10 years ago we were told nitrates and phosphates are bad, and you want to keep them at 0 at all times. Excellent podcast, as usual.
My sac254 came back at 19..this is a new system, and when i transferred all my acros, they died within a couple weeks. Finally did an oceamo ms test and an ndoc and found that.
@@fraggarage5922 thx, I have a fish tank, that I hope will one day support coral,, Tubbs Stllata dropped over after 2 weeks so much progress to make,, the bar is quite low
Salem - If one removes a bucket of tank water and adds enough acid to that bucket to bring the pH down to 3.5 for 12 hours, would there be any impact to DOCs? Randy Holmes Farley has a method for reducing tank Alkalinity in which one prepares a water change, adds acid (seachem acid buffer, for example), and then aerates the water before performing the water change. The acid converts alkalinity into CO2 and the aeration brings the pH back up by off gassing the CO2. I’ve used this method and have been wondering how, if at all, the acid addition and the temporary low pH impacts the bacteria population and DOCs (now that you’ve highlighted their importance).
This, is why I just dose Kalk, I’m exhausted just reading this. Love Randy,, why are you targeting PH3.5 for 12 hrs? I’m still listening maybe that is coming up soon.
@@Fish_Ventura 3.5 pH isn’t a target, that just happens to be what I’ve measured the pH to go down to when I add the amount of Seachem’s acid buffer necessary to reduce alkalinity from 10 to 0.
Ultimately, what I have in mind is a sort of “water treatment facility” next your tank. An unconnected container of possibly 10% of your tank’s water volume that you treat to remove DOCs (possibly bacteria as well) and then you use this water for your water change and you fill the container back up with the tank water you took out. Rinse and repeat. The upshot is to get some of the benefits of a new water change (low DOCs/bacteria) with water that has the exact element profile of the water in your tank while saving lots of money on salt mixes, element adjustments, RODI, etc. Maybe a temporary acidic environment won’t provide any benefit or there are downsides that outweigh the benefit, but possibly there are other beneficial treatments that can only be done only outside of the tank in such a “water treatment facility”. Possibly there is a use case for something like hydrogen peroxide to remove parasites, but obviously there would need to be a way to neutralize/remove the hydrogen peroxide after it performs its water treatment function.
acidification has impact on Alkalinity (carbonate species are converte dinto CO2 and this is driven off) and thus on inorganic carbon. DOC is not affected by acidification.
Is there any crossover between the components that make up alkalinity (mostly carbonate and bicarbonate, but there are many others) and the components that make up DOCs?
@@timjohnson3913 I think turf scrubbers may be worse - I believe at one point I read an article that illustrated that turf algea also produced compounds that inhibit coral growth on top of the DOC - I will have to double check and go down that rabbit hole - in terms of phosgaurd it binds to tons of traces
Can we all take a minute to reflect how far we've come in terms of understanding our tanks in such a short period of time? Remember, less than 10 years ago we were told nitrates and phosphates are bad, and you want to keep them at 0 at all times.
Excellent podcast, as usual.
This was so good I've come back to it and listened again. Really looking forward to the results Salem.
Excellent video!!
Been waiting for your Video lol. Will update with comment after I watch it. Great work you are doing!!
lol my thoughts exactly
@@thirstyjay305 Great minds think alike!!😂
thank you for bringing me the basic understanding of dissolved organic carbon in our reef tanks!
hahah yes, I did my best to understand too! thanks!
This was excellent!!!
Woo thank you!
Cheers!
Woohoo been waiting for this episode!!
Yes finally
Great talk. No mention of the effects of dosing Ammonia Bicarbonate and the effects on DOC. Surprised that didn’t come up unless I missed it.
Article coming soon on all carbonate and bicarbonate additives on reef builders
Love these German Chemist
Awesome video!
thanks a lot! Glad people are liking it., Salem can really fly hahah
My sac254 came back at 19..this is a new system, and when i transferred all my acros, they died within a couple weeks. Finally did an oceamo ms test and an ndoc and found that.
That’s wild man. 😮😮😮
@@lintonjh I think it was from the guy I get my corals from.. super shady
💯✅
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
First guest, excellent. Guest 2,, dang, I had just decided to vodka dose to reduce NO3
I mean.... it's still not all bad to use simple carbon sources. Whatever works for each individual tank ;)
@@fraggarage5922 thx, I have a fish tank, that I hope will one day support coral,, Tubbs Stllata dropped over after 2 weeks so much progress to make,, the bar is quite low
So Vinegar and tropic Marin Bacto Balance do the same thing for our systems? There goes TM marketing pitch for Bacto balance
I'm not super familiar with the product, but I would imagine it is a more complex carbon source?.. based on my discussion with Lou a while back.
Salem - If one removes a bucket of tank water and adds enough acid to that bucket to bring the pH down to 3.5 for 12 hours, would there be any impact to DOCs?
Randy Holmes Farley has a method for reducing tank Alkalinity in which one prepares a water change, adds acid (seachem acid buffer, for example), and then aerates the water before performing the water change. The acid converts alkalinity into CO2 and the aeration brings the pH back up by off gassing the CO2.
I’ve used this method and have been wondering how, if at all, the acid addition and the temporary low pH impacts the bacteria population and DOCs (now that you’ve highlighted their importance).
This, is why I just dose Kalk, I’m exhausted just reading this. Love Randy,, why are you targeting PH3.5 for 12 hrs? I’m still listening maybe that is coming up soon.
@@Fish_Ventura 3.5 pH isn’t a target, that just happens to be what I’ve measured the pH to go down to when I add the amount of Seachem’s acid buffer necessary to reduce alkalinity from 10 to 0.
Ultimately, what I have in mind is a sort of “water treatment facility” next your tank. An unconnected container of possibly 10% of your tank’s water volume that you treat to remove DOCs (possibly bacteria as well) and then you use this water for your water change and you fill the container back up with the tank water you took out. Rinse and repeat. The upshot is to get some of the benefits of a new water change (low DOCs/bacteria) with water that has the exact element profile of the water in your tank while saving lots of money on salt mixes, element adjustments, RODI, etc. Maybe a temporary acidic environment won’t provide any benefit or there are downsides that outweigh the benefit, but possibly there are other beneficial treatments that can only be done only outside of the tank in such a “water treatment facility”. Possibly there is a use case for something like hydrogen peroxide to remove parasites, but obviously there would need to be a way to neutralize/remove the hydrogen peroxide after it performs its water treatment function.
Interesting thoughts for sure.. LMK if you try it!
acidification has impact on Alkalinity (carbonate species are converte dinto CO2 and this is driven off) and thus on inorganic carbon. DOC is not affected by acidification.
Would you consider Alge turf scrubber as effective tool to manage low values of DOC ?
Double guest special
Is there any crossover between the components that make up alkalinity (mostly carbonate and bicarbonate, but there are many others) and the components that make up DOCs?
Good question.. I was thinking about this the other day too. Next time we'll bring it up for sure
no. Alkalinity is to a very high extent caused by inorganic carbon - which is not part of DOC
I’d love to get GFO out but my phosphate is barely kept at .1 with it
Algae Turf Scrubber perhaps? I know Salem is not a fan of Macroalgae refugiums since they give off DOCs, but I wonder what Salem thinks of an ATS.
Also, I wonder if aluminum oxide (phosguard) is as guilty as GFO for pulling out some of the good trace elements.
@@timjohnson3913yes Alu also binds alot of Traces and is a lot worse at binding up Phosphat than GFO
@@timjohnson3913 I think turf scrubbers may be worse - I believe at one point I read an article that illustrated that turf algea also produced compounds that inhibit coral growth on top of the DOC - I will have to double check and go down that rabbit hole - in terms of phosgaurd it binds to tons of traces
@@Coralhead_GFO gives my tangs HLLE, when used heavily. Seachem phosgard doesn’t (aluminum oxide) . I agree GFO crushes PO4.
Just tell me what to do! 😂
Water changes
@@salemclemens6148 I’m on it!
To talk about DOC and do not mention Triton with the world first NDOC test is......
We do talk about it (with Salem)