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You might find Jordan Peterson's proposition on Hitler's impulses resulting in the Holocaust (he proposes it as an argument but doesn't ague he knows) on The Tanya Rabbi's channel interesting to look at/respond to, because it carries over and is potentially relevant to any ideological leader under extreme stress and loosing.
You should not use the term Islamophobia at it implies a fear that’s more a mental condition than a view that’s grounded in reality. Acts carried out by Islamists and the social impact of Islam in western countries are rational things to be concerned about. In my country Australia there is a proliferation of meetings being conducted in every little place run by Islamists in conjunction with left leaning types using the Gaza situation to drum up the old lingering antisemitic feelings in the general populace particularly with people who would have typically regarded themselves as progressives. The union between leftists and Islamists was always a bit odd given the formers distaste for organised religion and Islamists very traditional values. But it has become increasingly obvious that the progressive values are not genuinely held by the left and the only things that they really value are antisemitism and general distaste for the west. As they have sacrificed every progressive ideal to ally with Islam.
You can critique fairly, or slowly Israel all you want with philosophy and sophistry, but it has it's right to defend itself from HAMMAs which virtue signaled genocide against Israel! When real life meets sophistry or philosophy it's untenable! It's sad but the realistic outcome is that Israel will absorb Palestine into itself sooner or later. There's just too much land lost when Israel was expanding for Palestine to realistically be a state. Too little too late, plus Israel has backing from the USA and USA has geopolitical interests in the middle east region!
So happy to see you up so long. I know you go straight back to bobbing in the water after, but you spent more time on the shoreline today that we have seen you for a little while. I hope it points to a broader pattern.
Living in the EU, I have to say that I was several times the target of antisemitic verbal agression. Each time, the perpetrator was a muslim making very obvious he was one. And I'm not even jewish. Those guys apparently aren't very discerning 🙄
Europe is the heart of "Anti-Semitism" . You do not like your neighbors so you want all of them to go to the middle east and stay there, it is clear and simple. Look at yourself first before pointing fingers at others
12:49 "so what is antisemitism then? An expression of destructive human aggression, dark impulses and emotions, expressed under particular cultural conditions in association with thoughts about jewish people." In contrast, paraphrasing from what I think Jacob Simmons said: it is the archetypical conspiracy that has survived through the ages. One could argue that labeling it a universal and profound human capacity for evil that is merely precipitated in the proximity of people with a particular faith and tradition underestimates the momentum built up over centuries. It can rather be considered a piece of social technology to access our potential for evil, preserved in lore to be handed down through generations.
Someone who graffities a swastika and a star of David on a grave of allied soldier from ww2 is antisemtic. If it isn't antisemtic then I am not sure what else to call it. Did a build up of centuries long social momentum cause the person to pick up a rattle can and spray the graves in anger? Or was the person showing his anger towards those who ultimately (most likely unknowingly) fought and died in a war for a people that weren't white? Swastika was for centuries a symbol of health, well being and luck and not antisemitic. That quickly changed and the momentum was undone.
Christian Antisemitism: A history of hate by William Nicholls (professor emeritus of religious studies at the University of BC)…is a great place to start if you want to understand the deep well of hatred that exists within western culture specifically for Jewish people.
The world's always on fire. If you wait for a period of worldwide calm, you'll never get to do anything. So, you have to make the intellectual/emotional space to tackle less apparently urgent concerns, as they can still be very important.
I'm from Ireland. I taught antisemitism was a history channel thing from ww2. I'm horrified by the watsapp messages I get about antisemitism now. Madness and sad
@@marktrain9498 Maybe, maybe not, but I couldn't help getting the impression that the comment was directed at the fact that Ireland has been one of the few Western countries to officially call out Israel's actions.
Asian-hate is a United Front creature used as soft transnational criminality against refugees protection. In my country, we love all cultures. We hate propaganda and transnational criminality, whatever the country of origin.
I would like to understand it so much, but it is too complicated for me. Years ago I visited Treblinka in Poland. I did not feel well there. Now I have to carefully dose the news from Israel/Gaza, because I can no longer tolerate it. All those horrors... my head does not work anymore. Only deep sadness. And crying is no longer possible. What a world.
@@NebrisHaving watched a lot of gore and war footage made me... different I think. I can't stand people being ignorant to the evil in the world, but it has changed somewhat with the wars. It truely breaks the mind if you try to grasp it, so I understand why many stay ignorant. It's better in a way. I think about it all the time, but I never think about it to deeply yk. It'd get me messed up probably.
@@Nebris I've read quite a bit about WW2 history and in particular some of the worst of it and thought that I wouldn't find anything that would make me feel ill again. But then I read about a particular guy of whom someone may have said that the other members of his organization thought he gave them a bad name because of his brutality, although this may be apocryphal, and indeed whether or not that was ever actually said, it suits him, and that guy made me feel, well, sick to my stomach. So don't despair, there's always something worse that will shock you to your core and you will find that you aren't quite the sociopath you think you might be.
I really hope that it will get better. In the meantime I think its alright to watch less or remove the volume. whatever works for you. Breaking down is not going to help, but doing something constructive however litle is what helps me a bit. Sending love
If you see it ruins you, you must stop with it. And delving to deep into those things does do damage to any person even if he does not notice it, unless he is already deeply damaged.
You've given us something really valuable today, Vlad. I listened a couple of times but I believe that I'll be returning to this. It has a great deal of applicability to the amount of hate speech I hear in the US and it addresses some things about russia's war in Ukraine that I haven't been properly able to express. Thank you very much.
I've long had a problem with the "prejudice plus power" definition of racism, because it seems to me that having power is not such an all or nothing proposition.
@@Muljinn Their model is to distinguish between bigotry (which is still deemed to be wrong) and racism. To me that might have made some sense in the 1940's US or Apartheid South Africa, but the problem I have with that is that it assumes black people had NO agency, which means black activists get no credit. It also fails to give credit or blame to segregationist judges versus anti-segregationist judges.
My only criticism of this episode is that it was like reading a preface and then having the book taken away. A selfish cry for wanting more. I could listen all night. Thank you, Vlad. Much love back to you.
Over the last year a few people in my close friend group has become openly anti-semitic, but I'm not sure if others are just smart enough to keep quiet about it. I've pushed back on it when they have said things around me but it seems like an emotional thing and they like the feeling. I didn't expect to question myself on whether it was a good idea to call it out and thats pretty disturbing too, leaving my only social group is becoming a reasonable decision.
I literally never hear anti-semitism among my Trump supporting friends. They make fun of trans people, they make fun of feminists, but they don't hate anyone. You must hang around with progressives who hate Nazis but who also hate Jews. Make that make sense?
Usually shortly after you uncover someone is bad enough to choose antisemitism despite all we have evolved as a species, they quickly embrace all other kind of obnoxious beliefs and actions. Better to have a good neighbour than a friend like that.
Thank you very much for this--I have been wanting to hear more of your perspectives on this area, knowing that you would bring much needed thoughtful takes.
I was distressed by Syria. I wonder about the well-being of all the refugees who ended up in camps. I am concerned about Africa. Ukraine weighs heavily.I am concerned about both Israel and Gaza and Lebanon. I have a life long concern for the Jewish people flowing from my horror at learning about the Holocaust as a child. Is my concern proportionate? Well no, and neither is the informed nature of my concern. My basic view of all human life as sacred moderates my views but I do not of course consider all people worthy. The actions of some are unequivocally evil. As a Christian I have no problem using that word. Murray does a line in outrage that serves him well in terms of his own profile but is also useful in raising awareness of situations that the world needs to address. I do not doubt his integrity or his honourable intentions. The world as it currently in its volatility invites one to polarisation on issues as a relief valve from the weight of the complexity. The temptation is to opt for a simplistic but unrealistic point of view. May goodness prevail, a hope grounded in faith.
Can anyone truly know another person’s inner thoughts and intentions without surmising them? What if there is no conflict at hand? This discourse raised way more questions than clarification. Maybe it’s because antisemitism is so complex; a psychological, sociological, political, and historical phenomenon.
it's not that complex. And you can deduct people's thoughts and intentions from their actions. You don't have to be 100% accurate all the time. But if people sing "From the river.." or critizise Israel because of "the children of Gaza", you can be sure they're antisemite. Just isolate those people and make sure they are not welcome in your country.
I am always fascinated by your chats. You have such a high density of information in your speech, and your thoughts feel very nuanced and reasonable. It is a great pleasure to listen to you. I am currently half way through the video and taking lots of notes, trying to refine my understanding of antisemitism. Thank you very much for this!
Thank you for this. I wish the concept of how impossible perfect partiality was understood even to a small extent in the general public discourse. So often one is called a hypocrite for being passionate about a cause, however worthy, but not so passionate about another worthy cause.
I am a filipino catholic who was raised by a mother who taught me a lot about history and one that hit me back then was world war 2 and the holocaust. I am very sensitive to that which almost makes me a hard line pro israel. Vlad analyzing what Douglas Murray said, which i saw him make that same statement in TH-cam, was enlightening. Thanks.
I didn't want to sound too harsh or critical, but it was difficult to find the words to say this in a nice way. The level of ignorance/arrogance/blindness apparent from your comment is astonishing. That you feel comfortable announcing that "your mother taught you a lot about history", followed by a reductive reference to "world war 2 and the holocaust" is... concerning. My guy, your mother taught you nothing about history... Please don't interpret that as an insult towards your mother, because unless your mother is a Historian - that wasn't her job. But practically every person who was educated in the western schooling system learned about "world war 2 and the holocaust". As a Filipino, one might've expected you to show interest in the experiences of Filipino's at the hands of the Japanese, during WW2. One might've expected you to have learned a bit about the Spanish/Philippine war of 1886 to 1899 - more commonly known as the War of Independence. Your mother might've even introduced you to the writings of Jose Rizal who was executed by the Spaniards as a leader of the Independence Movement. You might then have become interested in the American/Philippine war that immediately followed, and the American occupation that only (nominally) ended in 1946. To your credit, you freely admit that you have a "hard line pro Israel" bias. But that begs the question - Why?? Why, as a Filipino-Catholic, do you feel so strongly about a country that was forged out of occupied lands in the MIddle East, in 1948? Why do you reflexively support a foreign country when Holocaust survivors like Marek Edelman, who was a leader of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, or global Jewish icons like Albert Einstein and Hannah Arendt, vociferously apposed it? I apologize that this comment is worded in such an aggressive and/or presumptive way. That isn't the intent; we are all Ignoramuses at the end of the day. The danger is in thinking we are not.
@ you said all of those things just from reading my comment. Your showcasing of your knowledge of the history of the middle east, filipino history, those personalities that you mentioned and to add to that your lecturing just makes you sound like a pompous self righteous know it all. You are also condescending and a general asshole. I suppose i should have said that my mother introduced me to history by telling me stories about world war 2 and holocaust, but that does but excuse you from saying all of those mean things and jumping into analysis of my personality and level of knowledge from that short comment of mine. In fact your whole tirade tells us more of your ignorance than of your wisdom.
Thank you Vlad for posting when you did. Just in the last 20 minutes of a 15 hour train journey. This is exactly what I need to get over the finish line
To the categorical distinctiveness of the Holocaust: Arguing straight against it won't be fruitful, Germany is never going to turn around on this. What *does* work, and I think is actually very helpful, is consider it singular and incomparable in so far as it's so bad it destroys the very scales we measure by, bluntly said that it beggars belief. Other things also fall into that category, like the killing fields, but they're different in the way that they beggar belief -- but also singular, also incomparable. That is, the categorically distinctive examples are a category onto themselves.
Preemptively, sorry for only commenting upon the portions of your video I took issue with, I know how demotivating that can be. 6:25 As somebody Jewish, this part of the video sounds like "We have the moral energy to get worked up when it's jews doing it but not any other people group". When I hear this, the only way I can interpret it is that, well, antisemitism is a large component of the cultural and civilizational background of the west, so I just have to, what, put up with people having a huge double standard that lets them put the one and only Jewish country under way more scrutiny than any other? *My* moral response to Syria was roughly proportional to and in-line with my response to Ukraine (getting involved in pro-immigration/refugee advocacy, supporting arms deliveries to most reasonable democratic faction, etc) because I see a roughly comparable amount of death and human tragedy, why can't I expect the same of others? 10:35 I would say that there's something unique about Jewish people that makes the holocaust so astoundingly non-unique. Yes, there is something unique about us that makes other people react negatively towards us, if there weren't, there wouldn't be the need for the term anti-semitism or judenhass to differentiate racial prejudice against jews from other racial prejudices. Jewish refusal to assimilate and Jewish landlessness have long been thorns in the side for European cultures. Spanish laws on limpieza de sangre that codified how we view and do racism today target first and foremost Jews. The only other group that's received similar hate in (modern) Europe is the Romani and they also exhibit these same characteristics of landlessness and unassimilability. The fault is in fact with (most) non-Jewish and non-Romani human beings for reacting that way. Wonderful video, I appreciate somebody putting a more measured perspective on this subject out there.
The argument about scrutiny doesn't hold water anymore. There's a lot of talk on the internet but no actual accountability. Conflating ethnicity, religion and state is harmful and contributes to the whole mess.
@@glib4233 And what leads you to believe it is not the Jews who get to judge You about your accountability? Your countries hold commerce with the countries that do Jihad, funding their terrorism. Your countries vote in the UN exactly in line with Palestine, funding their ambition. And lastly, your countries insist in financing UNRWA/Hamas directly, despite evidence that they are mostly one and the same, and they steal all the aid. Your countires hold antisemitic people who do pogroms, and your governments run not to punish the perpetrators, but to deny there was a pogrom on European soil again. And you ask for accountability towards Israel? My friend, @glib4233, History will judge YOU.
You mention Syria and Ukraine. Have you done the same for Sudan, Myanmar and Somalia? This is what Vlad was referring to: humans do not have the same responses to everything. We do not feel the same pain when a stranger dies compared to a relative. We have the moral energy to get worked up when it's a group that we (as the 'West') support militarily and who is at the basis of our modern understanding of ourselves (WW2 and consequentially the Holocaust are THE turning point for Europe and the USA) that is in a conflict with a group that the biggest immigrant group of our countries (Arabs) support militarily and who is at the basis of their modern understanding of themselves (the Palestinian cause is the most fundamental issue for many Arabs, it's considered the last remnant of colonialism). That's why the current conflict is so polarizing - the majority of us know at least one person who was affected or it touches a fundamental part of what we consider ourselves to be. Israel is more relevant to the West because of the same reasons Syria and Ukraine are more relevant to you than Sudan or Myanmar
@fra604 Sudan, Myanmar (Burma), and Somalia are all much smaller conflicts than Ukraine is and Syria was. Single-digit thousands of deaths per year. Despite that I personally did volunteer work for Karen refugees of the Myanmar/Burma conflict because I happened to be in Thailand at the time. I brought up Ukraine and Syria because they had a roughly comparable number of deaths per year at their peaks, with no other conflict close. I'll admit that there are conflicts, like the tigray war, that I haven't responded to proportionately as I have to the others, but the thing is, I recognize that as racism, that's a character flaw that I need to work on. Evidently, I have a mental stumbling block that has prevented me from valuing African lives to the same extent as I do others. If I accept this as racism, I think it is fair to call it antisemitism when people disproportionately care when it is Jews doing the killing.
@@InternetLaser I think the reason why people are more appalled by Israel committing genocide than with the similar situation in Burma or east Congo is that it’s done by a democracy. If it’s some psychopathic dictator and authoritarian state doing it it’s somehow less offensive to our sense of human decency. But when a democracy is doing this it’s not just the dictator and authoritarian regime, it’s all the people who voted for the government, it’s the people themselves supporting the genocide. And that’s more difficult to understand.
Hi Vlad, To your first point, I believe Douglas Murray is responding to Muslims who pretend to care about Gaza because of a fake sense of Muslim unity that only exists when it involves jews. To your second point, I think ww2 was uniquely horrific because it was a government using industrial methods to exterminate its own loyal citizens. It also happened in a country that was at the peak of civilization. What is interesting about the different types of "hatred" against groups is how different they are. For example, homophobia comes almost entirely from a religious standpoint. For example, nobody says god hates Jews because they are "unnatural". Instead, antisemitism is all about conspiracy theories and blood libels. It is also possible to spread lies or even truths about Jews that portray them as especially evil while not having any hatred to Jews. Something like this would be like saying "I love all races but I believe some are smarter than others". That is still racist but there is no hatred there. When I see my friends from school sharing posts that portray Jews in a very negative way without doing any checking to see if it is true, that is antisemitic because they would never do the same to anyone else despite jews being one of the smallest minorities in the west and already eradicated in the east.
I'm not sure I agree. I've noticed that a certain amount of racism seems to label the "other" as having something that is normally thought of as something superior, whether it is or isn't. Examples vary but one often hears of some group being crafty or thrifty or that old favorite of somehow having exceptional sexual prowess.
@@quintrankid8045 That is what I would define as stereotyping which is similar in that it applies traits to people that you have never met but does not produce groups whose primary focus is the destruction of another group.
I'm queer in Denmark. One of the most atheist countries in the world. I have experienced hate-crimes perpetrated from white, atheist, 20-25 year old men, who has been in a church 5 times in their lives. There's a massive rise of hate-crimes towards LGBTQ+ by that exact segment. Hatred by said men towards any minority is insanely high. Just to feed your data points that need input
@@charisma-hornum-fries sure bro. And how many "hate crimes" have been perpetrated by the alphabet people against white males? People used to be really tolerant, but you can't blame them for pushing back.
I'm looking forward to more of your elaborations on the subject. I feel like this is an incredibly heated topic and I appreciate your calmness and conciseness.
and he is a kleptocrat that is controversial even in Israel. one of the reasons 10/7 was so brutal was because many soldiers were protesting his attempts to gain more political power. he also has done some things (I'm not sure exactly what) to prolong the war to avoid his own corruption trial.
@@adamgates1142 Whether or not he Netanyahu can rightly be considered evil its fair to critique what seems to be a trivial comment. However Netanyahu reaction to re-direct criticism as anti-semetic when at times it may not be so is a political response common to many situations around the world.
Looks like Vla'd's attempt to crap on Douglas Murray is a rather poor one. Either Vlad does not understand Murray's argumentation, or he is willfully misrepresents it in order to add validity to his own point. And since Vlad is always trying to position himself as an intelectual then the "misunderstanding" part goes out the window. So we are dealing with dishonest aim at dismissal of Murray's argument, which pinpoints anti-semitism as selective empathy.
Murray is one of the most dishonest and mentally limited fascists around. He's a cheap rhetorician with nothing substantive to say. I think a single one of Vlad's videos has more substance than all of Murray's books combined.
Ok, I am a Jew, and what I am going to say is relevant to the discussion. I think you missed the point of antisemitism in some crucial aspects. First of all: antisemitism works differently than most prejudices in the following way. While most predjuices argue that the other is inferior to your own group, antisemitism argues that the Jew is more intelligent than your own group, but uniquely evil and manipulative. This crucial difference makes antisemitism hard to detect. Second: antisemitism is not uniquely European or coming from XX century Europe. The Holocaust is not uniquely evil to us, because it is just a more extreme version of many pogroms and genocide attempts that we have suffered in our millenia of History. Arguably, it happened to every group in History at every time, but we carry the memory. We have suffered hundreds of pogroms and genocidal attempts. And this includes, besides Europe, both in the Arab World, and in the past (in the Roman Empire, Babylonians, Egyptians, etc). Thirdly: most criticism of Israel is not antisemitic. But there is a very specific strain, usually called "antizionism" that was artificially created by the KGB in the 70s, together with the Arab Nationalist movement, and this specific ideology is antisemitic.
Sorry but most historians agree that the Egypt story is more of a myth than history . Assyrians did conduct a genocidal war, which was a common occurrence at the time....(abundantly advocated for in the Torah ), Babylonians did not as is reported in same Torah , which BTW is not an accurate historical source, however we have other concurring evidence to support that fact. When discussing antisemitism it is hardly helpful to bring to the table a mumbo jumbo of facts and myths....that is exactly what antisemites do.
Yes, anti-Semitism rarely argue that Jews are inferior, rather that they are evil and hence even more dangerous since not-inferior. However, this makes anti-Semitism less evil and less harmful in general rather than more. I would much rather be seen as superhuman smart and manipulative rather than subhuman. Second, it is not true that the Jews have suffered „hundreds of genocide attempts”. If you compared the fate of the Jews to other religious minority groups in history, many of those groups were actually wiped out and the Jews were quite often treated sparingly in the world where lack of tolerance and mandatory conformity to majority were the norm. Only the Holocaust changed the nature of persecution of the Jews by being quintessential genocide. Your third point may well be right, I have no quarrel with it.
Also antisemitism is very closely tied to conspiracy thinking, which seems to be, for some reason, a very resilient (and wrong) way of looking at the world and its supposed power structures in our western culture.
I would say that it was earlier than the 70s in terms of USSR, and that the political far left (what people would call woke) took a lot of its messaging from there so while its origins are specific it has spread quite a bit.
Great chat and I appreciate that you're turning your attention next to anti-Islamic/Muslim speech. In regards to antisemitism, as a non-Jew, I feel a strong impulse to carefully check my critiques of the Israeli government and, even more so, Israeli citizens, for possible antisemitism. I think this is healthy. At the same time, it's also healthy to push back when I believe the antisemitism card is being overplayed as a way to cut off debate, as in the case of Sam Harris and his disingenuous / slanderous labeling of all US college protestors as "Pro-Hamas" and "antisemitic."
...indeed...as an African, I wonder about another example closer to home....why is anti-tutsism not a thing but anti-semitism is....even contemplating that question reveals much...
I might be in the wrong here, but its hard to see those protestors as anything but, when youre chanting ''from the river to the sea!'' youre either conciously antisimetic, or at least parroting a political message wich you dont understand, but still spreads anti semitism. There are fair criticisms of Israel for sure, and there are non anti simetic criticisms of Israel, however the specific ecosystem in US college campuses is very specifically that mindless trendy far left one, wich acts as a monolythic hive mind, that purges any dissent, and rn that monolyth is squarely placed on being openly antisimetic. I can elaborate on why i think its a monolyth and why its antisimetic rn
@@garethamery3167anti-tutsi is in fact a thing, but just a very local one. Anti-jew, on the other hand, is not local, it's a very weird phenomenon of hate that occurs in diferent places, diferent times by different ideologies/ beliefs. It's so weird that there are folks who never met or seen a jus but have the hate as if all jus were the exact same.
@@garethamery3167 As far as I know, I've never even met a Tutsi. On the other hand, I've known a hell of a lot of people who were Jewish or of Jewish heritage, including people at an extended family reunion. I've reported probably hundreds of Xitter posts for being antisemitic. Never encountered such a post about Tutsis. One of them is pervasive in my society. The other is effectively non-existent. How pervasive is anti-tutsism in Africa as a whole? Genuine question.
I want to say before watching. I respect you taking on some very controversial topics. That's courageous. Potentially a video on Islamophobia sometime? I could be considered an Islamophobe. I do not like the religion. I don't think it belongs here (although I do believe it could change into something that could fit, but in reality it wouldn't be Islam anymore. Just like how most muslims aren't real muslims.) It causes unnecessary friction and problems. Europe doesn't seem to know how to deal with it. How do we integrate Islam into Europe? Do we even try to integrate Islam or try to get rid of it? Do we centralize preaching with vetted imams who preach values that align with ours? We have no strategy. Muslims themselves can't even agree on Islam. How do we respond to this? Maybe I'm concerned for no reason? Anyway, get well! Edit: You can probably tell from what I said, but I want to clarify that there is a clear distinction between Islam and muslims. Just like Christianity and Christians. Edit 2: Damn, I was too fast. 😂 Looking forward to the video.
The biggest problem with Islam is the Jihadist wing of Islamic thought and how mainstream Jihadist thought is within Islam. Sam Harris does excellent nuance on this topic.
@@ninjacats1647 I essentially regard American Islam as reform Islam at this point. You can still find jihadist thought here, but the longstanding US tradition of being a settler society has resulted in the vast majority of American Muslims simply being Americans who happen to practice Islam and are perfectly happy to coexist with other religions in peace. If we ever want to see an end to medieval, jihadist Islam globally, then this is likely the only viable version of the faith to replace it.
@@zibbitybibbitybop How do you integrate the recent campus protests and what might be termed at least anti-Israel sentiment, although I've heard this spilled over into preventing some Jewish students from attending classes, with your beliefs that American Islam is reformed Islam?
All religions are fine. But when they fail to adapt to local laws and even try to force illegal acts, like physical mutilation, attack women rights, engage in pedophilia with lobbies, against refugees whom try to escape these persecutions, a whole secular democratic population... I call it transnational criminality, genocide, war. Divide to conquer, create unrest, manipulate institutions... salami slicing, create useful idiots in government to create foot in the door policies, leading to more abuse. Just no. Religion and spirituality, why not. Religion as a socioeconomic weapon for genocide and domination, no.
@@quintrankid8045 Infiltration of our institutions to weaponize them against our own rights using our own rights... I call it transnational criminality. The United Front, GRU and radical Islamist groups are very determined to undermine all our institutions. Protect our institutions, protect democracy and the secular character (if it applies) of our societies.
I would push back on your criticism about douglas murray. I think he meant the lack of proportions about all kinds of injustices that are going on in the world and it's comparison with relentless criticism of Israel. Not just the Asad regime
Thank you, Vlad, for your conversation with us. Looking forward to your next prejudice episode. All the best to you health-related and otherwise. Lots of love to you and the Beautiful Community. 🤗
Surely the fundamental point is that it is not prejudice to criticise Israel for its killing of civilians in Gaza, based on the same principles that lead us to criticize Russia for its killings of civilians in Ukraine. There were no demonstrations against Assad, because our governments were not selling weapons to Syria. Britain's supply of military help to a country that is using them to commit war crimes - as seems beyond doubt with Israel - amounts to complicity by our government in those war crimes, and that is why we must object to it, for as long as our democracy allows us to - a prospect which may not be unconditional.
Indeed! I used to actually defend Rogan as "the common American voice" and now I feel very stupid about that, but at the same time, I suppose we need to assume people (being human, after) DO change and DO evolve... devolve as the case may be. It's like finding a static spot in a river. Impossible unless frozen!
@emallace447 What a no doubt well intentioned, but ultimately silly sentiment. If we accept the premise that these are genocidal acts, then how else do we prevent such actions from taking place in the future if we don't rationalise what motivates them? If you want bad things to stop happening then you have to understand why bad things happen, that's a non-negotiable step if you're approaching these matters seriously.
I have listened to all corners of media and politics in Australia label reasonable and principled protest against the war as anti-semitism. It is a very unfortunate and unhelpful situation, since it shuts down rational debate about what is happening in Gaza and in the region.
Yes, this was indeed very helpful. That final analogy about football is a lovely one. I hope it doesn't lose those folks who don't get sports analogies. But you create a dialectic between the standard of weaker, slow to claim, and stricter, literal clear prima facie calls and flags on the field. Of course there's always the ludic fallacy to contend with, already challenged by the fact that the game of life keeps going, despite folks grabbing the ball with their hands. But for an analogy, there's lots here which folks can contribute
Dear Vlad, Have been following your channel (Chat and Main channel) practically since the start. And like many other among us you've given me a great insight and understanding in the Russian thought process and inner workings of the country on political levels etc., which gives a kind of peace in placing events in order and at the same time learning a lot! This in contrary to my political leaders of the country I live in (Netherlands), I guess it's a generational thing. But lately you seem to focus more and more on external events, Trump, Anti-Semitism, Musk and so on. At the beginning of the Russian-Ukrain war I have been following as much things as possible. On a military (Preghozin), geo political (Putin's will for multi polar world) and Russian (Navalny death, authoritarian state turning more and more into totalitarian state) and EU level (finally putting more money/higher % GDP in army), as a few examples. But lately I've been feeling ( I think also like many others ) a bit fatigued with following the war, it feels like we have created an echo chamber whereas everything Russian is total bad, and everything American is total good. I know, looking at solely the Russian - Ukraining war, this makes sense. BUT..... For me it is also important to think BEYOND this war, how could the world look like after the war, or maybe even more bald (book 1984), how could the world look like if we keeping a constant state of war, perhaps between the major powers. Perhaps it's important to state I m from the Netherlands/EU, have a wifey from Asia, did an Erasmus study programme in Prague, Czech Repubic & made also many Russian friends there, worked in very international working environments all my life (global energy construction sector) grew up as a child in the good old nineties which were apparently a small blob of peaceful times. With saying this, I mean to say that I m still convinced that European future does NOT solely lie within a relationship with the U.S.A. but also towards the east, though maybe not yet at this point in time. Gerard Schöder fascinates me in this regard. Would you consider making more chats and videos again about subjects we can still learn from and are mostly still unknown to the majority of people in the West? Because that is where you are at your uppermost best and perhaps it is a good way to get out of the (war) Echo chamber I was referring to! I love your videos like ''Putin's weakening power inside his own regime'' etc., but I know there is way more depth behind it then Putin only.... Like for example who are the exact people in Putin's regime. Just some subjects I would be interested in: -Elvira Nabiullina and other 2 or 3 most influenceale people or groups in Russia now -Kazachstan as a country (quite wealthy) and with new prime minister, while Putin new prime minister visited they actually talked in their Kazach Language instead of Russian (unknown of). Means Putin got what he wished for right back in his face, multipolar world :'' -Gaining influence of China in the far east of Russia in city's like Vladivostok and area's like Siberia? -can't think of more at this moment but I m looking forward to you suprising us!
Not anti-semitism, but antisemitism (because there is no "semitism", and it's not about "Semites" but Jews specifically; Semite was a codeword in anti-Jewish intellectual circles in Germany in the late 19th century using racial purity theories).
I found Finkelsteins analysis on anti semitism interesting, I know he's a controversial figure, but it is very hard to dispute his rigorous research and publications. His point was that in the US (and generally the west) at this point in history, many of the figures on growing anti semitism by institutions such as the ADL have muddied the waters because they include criticism of the Israeli regime and often entirely ignore antisemitism coming from an increasingly emboldened far right. He also made the point that at this particular point in time a Jewish last name or identity does not make it harder to obtain a job, a mortgage, bank loan etc. According to him it even gives you a leg up in certain institutions. This does not mean anti semitism is not a problem and has no need to be fought every day.
Depends on how we construe Zionism - for instance, you could construe Zionism minimally as the notion that Jews needed a state of their own. The question then arises, what kind of state?
I think it depends what your definition of anti zionism is. I think isreal shouldn't cease to exist, but I also don't think it should be allowed to do horrible things. Some people would call that zionism and the word has lost all meaning.
@@VladVexlerChatwhat a dodge. Any definition of Zionism can be distinguished from antisemitism because Zionism is a nationalist ideology. An antisemite can easily be both a Zionist and an islamaphobe. I have no idea why you feel compelled to portray these concepts so vaguely.
There is a significant problem whereby there is a nation state, whose faith, ethnic identity and its peoples past are intertwined as being one in the same. Such states seek immunity from criticism by claiming to criticise one part is by extension to criticise all parts and thus you can be branded as being anti-whatever the case may be.
There is an obvious difference between the circumstance in Syria and that of Gaza, western states were broadly against Assad with some actively supporting his opposition while in Gaza they are supporting Israel and aiding them to prosecute the war. If protest is aimed at influencing policy at home it makes sense regardless of any partiality.
So then take the case of Yemen and assistance to Saudi Arabia. Yemen is a far worse situation than either Syria or Gaza and only recently is being eclipsed by Sudan as the worst conditions because of war.
Deep down, the fact that one seeks a theorerical justification of a different ethical view on innocent civilians dying in the Gaza strip vs dying in Syria, Yemen or Sudan, and even deliberately puts more emphasis on the gazawi, while the number of victims is one order of magnitude lower, is racist. Either because it implies that the Israelis, being jews, are inherently more guilty; or because it implies that the arabs and sudanese, not being western, are just doing what is culturally expected of them. That's what Murray is saying when he talks about hypocrisy: you cannot simultaneously defend a special moral treatment of the Israel-HMS conflict and pretend you are anti-racist.
Thank you for your video, Vlad. I may need to watch it again, but I prefer a more tangible definition to be honest (e.g. is a Jewish person allowed to live where they like, work where they like and in what job they like, are they free from violence or threats of violence for being Jewish, etc. You know, systemic Antisemitism, if you will.
It was a violent massacre in its execution, absolutely horrible cruel murders against individuals, all innocent and including children and elderly, women, poor, rich, educated , uneducated. And it was bureaucratically tracked and organized
I wish you had touched on the uniqueness of antisemitism as a prejudice, culturally. It's unique because of its origin in Christian theology, which is still so much at the foundation of European culture. As a part of culture, it IS something that lives inside of us.
You seem to be a very little bit better today - I hope I am right? I do wish you improved health. I appreciate you addressing this difficult topic very much, but I found your descriptions of the different kinds of speech a bit over my head, particularly the distinction of political and non-political speech. Some examples would have helped a lot. I have heard some criticisms of Israel as a Jewish state that seemed quite convincing to me; I would love to hear you on the legitimacy of Israel. I very much support Judaism and Jews, and would hate to be at all anti-Semitic or anti-Jewish, but it does seem to me that the existence of a supposedly liberal democratic state that is also intended to be the particular home of one ethnic/religious group is problematic. I'd love to hear you discuss that.
When Vlad goes full-on philosophy mode it makes a great way for me to benchmark my mental acuity... whether it's because I had a couple of nights of bad sleep, or because this sort of looking for generalisable principles is just difficult for me to get my head around*, IDK, but this is definitely a video I'll need to watch twice, at least. * That image (similar to Vlad's "putting ideas in your tummy") is quite juicy, I think, though its a cliche... some of this material went into my head (and some of that's still in there!) but some went over my head, whistled past my ears or parted my hair :)
Voad, thank you for the video! It is a very important topic and I think it is also useful to distinguish between antisemitism and general prejudice. Like there are prejudices against different states, for example. Imperialist America, victimized Africa etc. So there is antisemitism and there is prejudice against Israel. In my opinion, antisemitism like racism constitutes some deep belief that this category of people is inherently different from the rest and has very precise personality traits which allows the “rest” to believe all kinds of tales about such people much more easily than they would have otherwise. Here goes the presumed oversexuality of colored people or malicious cleverness of Jews. Consequently, it makes it much easier to blame those categories as a group without giving it a second thought. Moreover, it doesn’t have to be a heated argument indeed, as you mentioned. I remember my soviet grandma telling me, when I was studying in a very good school initially organized by Jews, that I will never be one of them, that they are clever and it’s good to be around them but I’ll never be like them. That is deeply antisemitic in my view exactly because it perceives an ethnicity as a very distinct and homogeneous group. So, criticism of Israel can be antisemitic if it operates within those lines of unique maliciousness and closeness of Jews, when politics of Israel is understood and explained through those personality traces. But if the critic takes information about the conflict at face value without giving it a second thought or measuring it from different sides and builds the criticism on that, it doesn’t always mean the critic is antisemitic, just that they have a prejudice against the state of Israel itself. On the other hand, if the critic fully understands the data they use, the trustworthiness of this data, and analyses from different perspectives, then there is neither prejudice nor antisemitism in it
@@TheTruth-ko9ov "talmud law" what a projection lmao. there is more religious freedom in Israel than any Muslim country you can name. you're beyond delusional.
@@TheTruth-ko9ov Palestinians are not semitic. There are no semitic races/nations, only languages (Hebrew, Arabic). The term antisemitism was invented in Germany to serve as a euphemism for anti-jew, hence why is it applied to only jews. I understand you urge to protect Palestinians but it's not a good reason to misrepresent facts. BTW: Israel doesn't live under Talmud Law either.
@@stepanbaranov8459 You say there's no Semitic nations and it invented in Germany but still it used until now as if it's a crime to criticize it, so if some people still use it it means also it applies for Palestinians whether they are Arabs or Aramaic anf also for Arab nation especially Arabian peninsula.. and yeah they live under Talmud law and its belief in alot of aspects even if alot don't obey it. Even Netanyahu himself said the legal system is based on talmud
"These are orcs coming my way and they are also an Asiatic horde." That's just another way to dehumanize the enemy. We've seen it in way too many conflicts and we've also seen the results of it. So no, there's no difference between the soldier, the philosopher or the historian.
Thanks again Vlad. Helped to unknot some tangles especially after a second listen. The human aggression tendency feels like a salient point. Best wishes.
I enjoyed this, it illuminated Vlad's philosophical position on both private and public prejudice. I have been curious about his interpretation of transphobia since his oblique mentions of the topic in previous chats. I look forward to more chats that show how these thoughts can be generalised.
Thanks for coming back to this topic Vlad, maybe the cacophony surrounding it has lead to some soul searching. Sadly, the term anti-Semitic has become abused, banalised & used as a weapon. Thank-you for pointing this out, the rest of this series will be interesting.
The term has been devaluated by knee jerk labeling to the point where it is useless. For example, every criticism of Israel state actions is automatically labeled.
I think some aspect is actually everyone devalued it. I was telling a friend about an actual hate crime done and he went on a rant about how anything bad done to Jewish people is always labeled as antisemitism. He didn't even wait for me to say that it was done by a n4z1. Its convenient for people who don't want to vet their allies and for people who want to criticize activists if we pretend either nothing or everything is antisemitism and that ultimately is destroying the movement.
This goes both ways. Simple solution: if someone describes something with one word you don't agree with, ask the person to expand on it with more words and most difference go away in 90% of real world discussion. If you mean in social media, then... What do you expect?
@@olavl8827 the warrant is antisemitic. UN must be disbanded for aiding terrorism. Including UNWAR and UNIFAIL. That doesn't mean that Netanyahu is a saint. He is facing a lot of rightful criticism, especially from within his country.
As a Buddhist, I find the Western worlds inordinate fascination with Jews as well as the notion that Jews are somehow a "historically unique people" to be absolutely preposterous. It never sat right with me. Jamaicans are a historically unique people, Koreans are a historically unique people, etc. There is no way on earth of explaining how Jews are somehow a unique or special people without denigrating the rest of the entire human race, which itself is a common sentiment among extremist Jews. How about everyone just shut up about Jews ffs.
It's Talmudic Thinking, the obsessive desire to examine everything, from every angle, endlessly. That produces great philosophy and even greater science. But at its core is Doubt. And that is why I believe the Jews are hated - beside all the Christ killer nonsense - is that they are The Fathers of Doubt and most humans demand certainty.
That is a healthy way to think but Jews were victims of an eradication attempt in the West that was so successful they have still not returned to the amount that they were before WW2. In Muslim countries the eradication was total. The guilt of having either perpetrated, ignored, or benefited from this eradication attempt is what is behind many Westerners' attitudes toward Jews today.
"There is no way on earth of explaining how Jews are somehow a unique or special people without denigrating the rest of the entire human race". My response: Acknowledging the uniqueness of a group of people does not require denigrating every other group. I am not sure how you came to this conclusion.
As a Jew whose entire family has been Jewish for ages, I can tell you with absolute certainty that all we want is to be left the hell alone for once. Even the ultra orthodox don't proselytize, which means that if everybody would just freakin' ignore us, we'd all get along fine.
This took a week to get to me. Glad to see you upright. I would like to hear a definition of what makes a nation "!Legitimate". Because I don't see that enforced appropriation and granting by colonial powers and their powerful friends as legitimising. And Woodrow Wilson's "Self Determination of peoples" went straight to the trash can in 1919. On self defining anti-Semitism: On one side of the coin, criticism of Israel and it's behaviour or existence "must" be anti-Semitic, because the self identification with Israel "must" exist, because you are a Jew. No other logical position can exist. Thus it results in their being many anti-Semitic Jews, because there are Jewish communities who think that it should never have come into being.
For my thoughts on antisemitism, i don't think you can always id it because some aspect is intention. What has bothered me over the last year is that one group wants to insist nothing at all that any member did is antisemitic. I have been told that if nick fuentes showed up to fight for gaza, he should be welcomed because he is there for justice. Ive also seen the other side insist that everything is antisemitism. There is a middle point but nuance is hard when you're emotional.
a phobia is an irrational fear of something usually harmless. There's nothing irrational about fearing Islam and there's nothing harmless about Islam. There is an irrational prejudice against individual Muslims which is unsubstantiated - but not against Islamists
@@WhiteWolf126 the reason people fear Judaism is because they believe in conspiracy theories about the "Elders of Zion" and all of Der Stürmer-like propaganda about evil juice trying to take over the world. But, contrary to Islam, Judaism is not an expansionist religion, is not a proselityzing religion, and does not have any violent commandments. If Jews live in your neighbourhood, you may call yourself lucky. If Muslims live in your neighbourhood, you are a dead man walking.
Duglas is making a point by showing a fundamental thing - no one cares about a conflict if Jews are not mentioned. Let's face the fact - UN "peacekeepers" in Lebanon became a cover for terrorists and not only never tried to stop them, but made videos of rocket launches ~100m from UN bases. The UN had more anti-Israel resolutions than all dictator regimes combined. The UN makes a condemning resolution against Israel ~ every year and almost never criticizes actual dictators and wars. These facts just became so obvious, that people usually do not realize them. Any single one of them could be just a fact of some human mistake, but combined - it's kinda a clear picture for me. And let's face the fact that anti-Zionism is just a weapon of antisemitism. No one criticizes Jordania or Pakistan for the fact of their existence, but Israel is under attack of that kind. If these are not facts for serious discussion - I don't know what facts (not some pseudo-intellectual theories) should be mentioned.
Difference is we trade with and arm Israel we don’t do much with Syria, we are complicit/ supporters so should discuss our role more. We are not supporting Syria / Assad.
@@rjmahan Let me remind you, that Iran's parliament openly chants "death to the USA" and made huge progress in creating a nuclear weapon. Somehow I can see some pattern in these two facts. Add the Houthis who are armed and trained by Iran and starting to control the trade routes. So what is the USA's role? Probably to ensure the safety of its own citizens. And I think that Iran's nuclear weapons (and Iran's proxies - like Lebanon's Hezbollah) are not making their life more safe.
@@rjmahan thats true, but then the conclusion could be that we should stop arming them, not that they are an illegitimate state. We generally dont go that route becauase we decided that the world is legitimate as it is, and no more wars should happen, Israel is the only place on earth were the UN is seriously considering different borders being more morally legitimate
@@rjmahan We were supporting Saudi Arabia in Yemen, we trade with China despite what they are doing to the Uygurs and neither of those got much attention
I think this is a bit muddled because following your political definition of antisemitism Jewish people who criticize Israel harshly but don't have an antisemitic mindset could still be considered antisemitic under the law. I think this is both confusing and potentially dangerous.
You had me nodding along up until you brought out a word with a very particular history and connotation like "barbarism" (I don't necessarily object to this) while at the same time sanitizing the calculated and methodical "liquidation" of an entire people behind a word like "war"-- and also *never even being willing to NAME that people* which of itself carries a very serious and ugly sort of intent behind it- not even giving someone the dignity of their name. People who have lived their whole lives in a cage after having everything taken from them often multiple times... if that does not qualify as decades of "barbarism" then I'm not sure your usage of the word carries a coherent meaning behind intending to mark someone as "culturally inferior" for doing just exactly what most human beings would end up doing in the same situation.
btw, the uniqueness got debated ad nauseam in the 1986-87 German Historikerstreit. Proponents of its singularity also made very secular points, such as no other genocide in history having combined rigerous bureaucracy & technocratic innovation into industrialized execution as a fundamental reason of state
Thank you for such a thoughtful video! and I hope you are getting better! There are two major points that I'm surprised that you didn't touch or expanded further: 1. Holding all Jews responsible for what the Israeli government is doing is the most simply recognised form of anti-semitism (maybe you didn't touch it because it's so simple but I think it's worth pointing that out). Even when Jews show solidarity to the suffering of the Palestinians by going to meeting/rallies, they are often required to denounce Israel or some nonsense like that, which non-Jews are never asked to do. I think it's because of the assumed sympathy of Jews to the idea that they have a right for self-determination. Which brings me to my next point. 2. Saying that Israel is illegitimate and therefore doesn't have a right to exist (aka anti-zionism) IS an expression of anti-semitism UNLESS one also mentions that no nation-state is legitimate and they should no exist (anarchism). Basically, people who claim that they are anti-zionists deny the right for self-determination only to Jews and that why they are anti-semitism. In fact, as you mentioned many anti-semitists just use the criticism of Israel to express their hatred for Jews, and most likely they don't care about the Palestinians. That's why so many are also sympathetic to Hamas - whose goal is not the liberation of the Palestinians or at least lowering their suffering but mostly destruction of Israel and they don't care how many Palestinians die in the process.
Its inportant to remember, that some of the most enthusiastic backers of Natinyahu's current actions (evangelical christians in the US) are infact deeply antisemitic! ...Running with your point seperating the levels of political criticism and antisemitism. This logic can also be aplied whith examples like Saudi Arabia, with which the west allso has a close (but obviously very different) relationship.
you are doing a John Gray presentation. thank you i got 15% the rest was me analizing that 15% during it all. I will com back to this, i see rough diamonds around
You have such a talent to articulate these nuances so well, which we, mere mortals, more or less realize but are unable to put in words. The only point that I think you missed is how ignorance plays so much into the expressions of antisemitism. As in the current Israel-Gaza conflict how the political, social, structural, religious circumstances in Gaza contribute to the excessive morality. This disregard for the facts on the ground contribute to the perception of antisemitism because it looks as if there are double standards for a Jewish nation and for everyone else.
Brother Vlad. You deserve a break from TH-cam. Time for love and family, especially with Christmas drawing near ❤ I will be sending you my sincerest wishes 🫂
Could you do this again, except with examples of each instance of what you're talking about - either invented or taken from real cases? The level of pure abstraction makes it quite difficult to follow what you're saying. I'm none the wiser about whether, say, Jeremy Corbyn was fairly or unfairly accused of antisemitism (or at least of having a high tolerance for antisemitism among his comrades). I mean, I have a clear view on that myself, but I can't derive anything at all about that question from what you said here. Don't get me wrong - it's not that I didn't find this stimulating in many ways; it just left me wanting (much) more!
I need some further understanding. Is there a way to know when by _not_ making two different but related events categorically different that you are not committing the continuum fallacy?
I would measure it against reality, or in regards to humanity, the best quality historical research on humanity's inhumanity. And then make your mind up. No-one can do that for you.
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I'm not going to slag someone off but I stopped watching a TH-camr because of his unmeasured responses in this conflict. I really appreciated this.
Thank you for finally addressing this topic again Vlad
You might find Jordan Peterson's proposition on Hitler's impulses resulting in the Holocaust (he proposes it as an argument but doesn't ague he knows) on
The Tanya Rabbi's channel interesting to look at/respond to, because it carries over and is potentially relevant to any ideological leader under extreme stress and loosing.
You should not use the term Islamophobia at it implies a fear that’s more a mental condition than a view that’s grounded in reality. Acts carried out by Islamists and the social impact of Islam in western countries are rational things to be concerned about. In my country Australia there is a proliferation of meetings being conducted in every little place run by Islamists in conjunction with left leaning types using the Gaza situation to drum up the old lingering antisemitic feelings in the general populace particularly with people who would have typically regarded themselves as progressives.
The union between leftists and Islamists was always a bit odd given the formers distaste for organised religion and Islamists very traditional values. But it has become increasingly obvious that the progressive values are not genuinely held by the left and the only things that they really value are antisemitism and general distaste for the west. As they have sacrificed every progressive ideal to ally with Islam.
You can critique fairly, or slowly Israel all you want with philosophy and sophistry, but it has it's right to defend itself from HAMMAs which virtue signaled genocide against Israel! When real life meets sophistry or philosophy it's untenable!
It's sad but the realistic outcome is that Israel will absorb Palestine into itself sooner or later. There's just too much land lost when Israel was expanding for Palestine to realistically be a state. Too little too late, plus Israel has backing from the USA and USA has geopolitical interests in the middle east region!
So happy to see you up so long. I know you go straight back to bobbing in the water after, but you spent more time on the shoreline today that we have seen you for a little while. I hope it points to a broader pattern.
Living in the EU, I have to say that I was several times the target of antisemitic verbal agression. Each time, the perpetrator was a muslim making very obvious he was one. And I'm not even jewish. Those guys apparently aren't very discerning 🙄
You write like a Jew.
Europe is the heart of "Anti-Semitism" .
You do not like your neighbors so you want all of them to go to the middle east and stay there, it is clear and simple. Look at yourself first before pointing fingers at others
Same
No It is a European concept. You do not like your neighbors so you sent them away and fully support them staying there .
@@athklymqimtb please read the comment you replied to again
12:49 "so what is antisemitism then? An expression of destructive human aggression, dark impulses and emotions, expressed under particular cultural conditions in association with thoughts about jewish people."
In contrast, paraphrasing from what I think Jacob Simmons said: it is the archetypical conspiracy that has survived through the ages.
One could argue that labeling it a universal and profound human capacity for evil that is merely precipitated in the proximity of people with a particular faith and tradition underestimates the momentum built up over centuries. It can rather be considered a piece of social technology to access our potential for evil, preserved in lore to be handed down through generations.
Yes, you could say that, but would it be true? That's the nub.
Someone who graffities a swastika and a star of David on a grave of allied soldier from ww2 is antisemtic. If it isn't antisemtic then I am not sure what else to call it. Did a build up of centuries long social momentum cause the person to pick up a rattle can and spray the graves in anger? Or was the person showing his anger towards those who ultimately (most likely unknowingly) fought and died in a war for a people that weren't white?
Swastika was for centuries a symbol of health, well being and luck and not antisemitic. That quickly changed and the momentum was undone.
@@CuriousCrow-mp4cx”True?” It’s philosophy lol. Don’t like it, you just go make your own attempt and put it out there
Christian Antisemitism: A history of hate by William Nicholls (professor emeritus of religious studies at the University of BC)…is a great place to start if you want to understand the deep well of hatred that exists within western culture specifically for Jewish people.
@@m0ckingB1rd42 I thought Jewish people are a large part of Western Culture?
The world's always on fire. If you wait for a period of worldwide calm, you'll never get to do anything. So, you have to make the intellectual/emotional space to tackle less apparently urgent concerns, as they can still be very important.
I don't agree with all your points, but I love your reasoning and high quality of thought
I'm from Ireland. I taught antisemitism was a history channel thing from ww2. I'm horrified by the watsapp messages I get about antisemitism now. Madness and sad
Well, sadly your country is one of the worst perpetuators.
+1 for your avatar!
@@fuerstmetternich1997
what? Did you even watch this video or are you just a Russian bot here to cause division?
@@bengreen171 There's a lot of antisemitism in Ireland, even compared to other European countries.
@@marktrain9498
Maybe, maybe not, but I couldn't help getting the impression that the comment was directed at the fact that Ireland has been one of the few Western countries to officially call out Israel's actions.
13:04 That is a good definiton and able to explain why in South East Asian, they have Sinophobia instead of Anti-Semitism.
Asian-hate is a United Front creature used as soft transnational criminality against refugees protection. In my country, we love all cultures. We hate propaganda and transnational criminality, whatever the country of origin.
Yes, but there is lots of anti-semitism in Indonesia. Anti-semitism is ingrained in Islam
I would like to understand it so much, but it is too complicated for me. Years ago I visited Treblinka in Poland. I did not feel well there. Now I have to carefully dose the news from Israel/Gaza, because I can no longer tolerate it. All those horrors... my head does not work anymore. Only deep sadness. And crying is no longer possible. What a world.
I have studied military history so long, I suspect I've become something of sociopath.
@@NebrisHaving watched a lot of gore and war footage made me... different I think. I can't stand people being ignorant to the evil in the world, but it has changed somewhat with the wars. It truely breaks the mind if you try to grasp it, so I understand why many stay ignorant. It's better in a way. I think about it all the time, but I never think about it to deeply yk. It'd get me messed up probably.
@@Nebris I've read quite a bit about WW2 history and in particular some of the worst of it and thought that I wouldn't find anything that would make me feel ill again. But then I read about a particular guy of whom someone may have said that the other members of his organization thought he gave them a bad name because of his brutality, although this may be apocryphal, and indeed whether or not that was ever actually said, it suits him, and that guy made me feel, well, sick to my stomach. So don't despair, there's always something worse that will shock you to your core and you will find that you aren't quite the sociopath you think you might be.
I really hope that it will get better. In the meantime I think its alright to watch less or remove the volume. whatever works for you. Breaking down is not going to help, but doing something constructive however litle is what helps me a bit.
Sending love
If you see it ruins you, you must stop with it.
And delving to deep into those things does do damage to any person even if he does not notice it, unless he is already deeply damaged.
You've given us something really valuable today, Vlad. I listened a couple of times but I believe that I'll be returning to this. It has a great deal of applicability to the amount of hate speech I hear in the US and it addresses some things about russia's war in Ukraine that I haven't been properly able to express. Thank you very much.
I've long had a problem with the "prejudice plus power" definition of racism, because it seems to me that having power is not such an all or nothing proposition.
The very idea is an idiocy. A racist without power is no less bigoted than a racist *with* power, he’s just less dangerous.
@@Muljinn Their model is to distinguish between bigotry (which is still deemed to be wrong) and racism. To me that might have made some sense in the 1940's US or Apartheid South Africa, but the problem I have with that is that it assumes black people had NO agency, which means black activists get no credit. It also fails to give credit or blame to segregationist judges versus anti-segregationist judges.
My only criticism of this episode is that it was like reading a preface and then having the book taken away. A selfish cry for wanting more. I could listen all night.
Thank you, Vlad. Much love back to you.
We're like baby birds 😅
Over the last year a few people in my close friend group has become openly anti-semitic, but I'm not sure if others are just smart enough to keep quiet about it. I've pushed back on it when they have said things around me but it seems like an emotional thing and they like the feeling. I didn't expect to question myself on whether it was a good idea to call it out and thats pretty disturbing too, leaving my only social group is becoming a reasonable decision.
I literally never hear anti-semitism among my Trump supporting friends. They make fun of trans people, they make fun of feminists, but they don't hate anyone. You must hang around with progressives who hate Nazis but who also hate Jews. Make that make sense?
I had to leave some friends over similar things.
Usually shortly after you uncover someone is bad enough to choose antisemitism despite all we have evolved as a species, they quickly embrace all other kind of obnoxious beliefs and actions.
Better to have a good neighbour than a friend like that.
In what ways have they become openly anti-semitic
I have had people who have had and have a hard time distinguishing Zionism from Judaism. It takes serious and deeper dives and conversations.
Thank you very much for this--I have been wanting to hear more of your perspectives on this area, knowing that you would bring much needed thoughtful takes.
Thankyou Vlad, your opinions have formalised my own.
I hope your health is improving.
I was distressed by Syria. I wonder about the well-being of all the refugees who ended up in camps. I am concerned about Africa. Ukraine weighs heavily.I am concerned about both Israel and Gaza and Lebanon. I have a life long concern for the Jewish people flowing from my horror at learning about the Holocaust as a child. Is my concern proportionate? Well no, and neither is the informed nature of my concern. My basic view of all human life as sacred moderates my views but I do not of course consider all people worthy. The actions of some are unequivocally evil. As a Christian I have no problem using that word. Murray does a line in outrage that serves him well in terms of his own profile but is also useful in raising awareness of situations that the world needs to address.
I do not doubt his integrity or his honourable intentions. The world as it currently in its volatility invites one to polarisation on issues as a relief valve from the weight of the complexity. The temptation is to opt for a simplistic but unrealistic point of view. May goodness prevail, a hope grounded in faith.
Thank you for this response. I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Tahnks Vlad. I appreciate the risk you take discussing this topic.
Measured conversation with good faith is rare but so refreshing
Can anyone truly know another person’s inner thoughts and intentions without surmising them? What if there is no conflict at hand? This discourse raised way more questions than clarification. Maybe it’s because antisemitism is so complex; a psychological, sociological, political, and historical phenomenon.
it's not that complex.
And you can deduct people's thoughts and intentions from their actions.
You don't have to be 100% accurate all the time. But if people sing "From the river.." or critizise Israel because of "the children of Gaza", you can be sure they're antisemite.
Just isolate those people and make sure they are not welcome in your country.
I am always fascinated by your chats. You have such a high density of information in your speech, and your thoughts feel very nuanced and reasonable. It is a great pleasure to listen to you. I am currently half way through the video and taking lots of notes, trying to refine my understanding of antisemitism. Thank you very much for this!
Thank you for this. I wish the concept of how impossible perfect partiality was understood even to a small extent in the general public discourse. So often one is called a hypocrite for being passionate about a cause, however worthy, but not so passionate about another worthy cause.
I am a filipino catholic who was raised by a mother who taught me a lot about history and one that hit me back then was world war 2 and the holocaust. I am very sensitive to that which almost makes me a hard line pro israel. Vlad analyzing what Douglas Murray said, which i saw him make that same statement in TH-cam, was enlightening. Thanks.
I didn't want to sound too harsh or critical, but it was difficult to find the words to say this in a nice way. The level of ignorance/arrogance/blindness apparent from your comment is astonishing. That you feel comfortable announcing that "your mother taught you a lot about history", followed by a reductive reference to "world war 2 and the holocaust" is... concerning. My guy, your mother taught you nothing about history... Please don't interpret that as an insult towards your mother, because unless your mother is a Historian - that wasn't her job. But practically every person who was educated in the western schooling system learned about "world war 2 and the holocaust". As a Filipino, one might've expected you to show interest in the experiences of Filipino's at the hands of the Japanese, during WW2. One might've expected you to have learned a bit about the Spanish/Philippine war of 1886 to 1899 - more commonly known as the War of Independence. Your mother might've even introduced you to the writings of Jose Rizal who was executed by the Spaniards as a leader of the Independence Movement. You might then have become interested in the American/Philippine war that immediately followed, and the American occupation that only (nominally) ended in 1946.
To your credit, you freely admit that you have a "hard line pro Israel" bias. But that begs the question - Why?? Why, as a Filipino-Catholic, do you feel so strongly about a country that was forged out of occupied lands in the MIddle East, in 1948? Why do you reflexively support a foreign country when Holocaust survivors like Marek Edelman, who was a leader of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, or global Jewish icons like Albert Einstein and Hannah Arendt, vociferously apposed it?
I apologize that this comment is worded in such an aggressive and/or presumptive way. That isn't the intent; we are all Ignoramuses at the end of the day. The danger is in thinking we are not.
@ you said all of those things just from reading my comment. Your showcasing of your knowledge of the history of the middle east, filipino history, those personalities that you mentioned and to add to that your lecturing just makes you sound like a pompous self righteous know it all. You are also condescending and a general asshole. I suppose i should have said that my mother introduced me to history by telling me stories about world war 2 and holocaust, but that does but excuse you from saying all of those mean things and jumping into analysis of my personality and level of knowledge from that short comment of mine. In fact your whole tirade tells us more of your ignorance than of your wisdom.
Aways appreciate you Vlad for being you ❤
Thank you Vlad for posting when you did. Just in the last 20 minutes of a 15 hour train journey. This is exactly what I need to get over the finish line
Thank you so much Vlad. So grateful I've found your channels. ❤
grateful back
To the categorical distinctiveness of the Holocaust: Arguing straight against it won't be fruitful, Germany is never going to turn around on this. What *does* work, and I think is actually very helpful, is consider it singular and incomparable in so far as it's so bad it destroys the very scales we measure by, bluntly said that it beggars belief. Other things also fall into that category, like the killing fields, but they're different in the way that they beggar belief -- but also singular, also incomparable. That is, the categorically distinctive examples are a category onto themselves.
Preemptively, sorry for only commenting upon the portions of your video I took issue with, I know how demotivating that can be.
6:25
As somebody Jewish, this part of the video sounds like "We have the moral energy to get worked up when it's jews doing it but not any other people group". When I hear this, the only way I can interpret it is that, well, antisemitism is a large component of the cultural and civilizational background of the west, so I just have to, what, put up with people having a huge double standard that lets them put the one and only Jewish country under way more scrutiny than any other? *My* moral response to Syria was roughly proportional to and in-line with my response to Ukraine (getting involved in pro-immigration/refugee advocacy, supporting arms deliveries to most reasonable democratic faction, etc) because I see a roughly comparable amount of death and human tragedy, why can't I expect the same of others?
10:35
I would say that there's something unique about Jewish people that makes the holocaust so astoundingly non-unique. Yes, there is something unique about us that makes other people react negatively towards us, if there weren't, there wouldn't be the need for the term anti-semitism or judenhass to differentiate racial prejudice against jews from other racial prejudices. Jewish refusal to assimilate and Jewish landlessness have long been thorns in the side for European cultures. Spanish laws on limpieza de sangre that codified how we view and do racism today target first and foremost Jews. The only other group that's received similar hate in (modern) Europe is the Romani and they also exhibit these same characteristics of landlessness and unassimilability. The fault is in fact with (most) non-Jewish and non-Romani human beings for reacting that way.
Wonderful video, I appreciate somebody putting a more measured perspective on this subject out there.
The argument about scrutiny doesn't hold water anymore. There's a lot of talk on the internet but no actual accountability.
Conflating ethnicity, religion and state is harmful and contributes to the whole mess.
@@glib4233 And what leads you to believe it is not the Jews who get to judge You about your accountability?
Your countries hold commerce with the countries that do Jihad, funding their terrorism. Your countries vote in the UN exactly in line with Palestine, funding their ambition. And lastly, your countries insist in financing UNRWA/Hamas directly, despite evidence that they are mostly one and the same, and they steal all the aid. Your countires hold antisemitic people who do pogroms, and your governments run not to punish the perpetrators, but to deny there was a pogrom on European soil again.
And you ask for accountability towards Israel? My friend, @glib4233, History will judge YOU.
You mention Syria and Ukraine. Have you done the same for Sudan, Myanmar and Somalia? This is what Vlad was referring to: humans do not have the same responses to everything. We do not feel the same pain when a stranger dies compared to a relative.
We have the moral energy to get worked up when it's a group that we (as the 'West') support militarily and who is at the basis of our modern understanding of ourselves (WW2 and consequentially the Holocaust are THE turning point for Europe and the USA) that is in a conflict with a group that the biggest immigrant group of our countries (Arabs) support militarily and who is at the basis of their modern understanding of themselves (the Palestinian cause is the most fundamental issue for many Arabs, it's considered the last remnant of colonialism). That's why the current conflict is so polarizing - the majority of us know at least one person who was affected or it touches a fundamental part of what we consider ourselves to be.
Israel is more relevant to the West because of the same reasons Syria and Ukraine are more relevant to you than Sudan or Myanmar
@fra604 Sudan, Myanmar (Burma), and Somalia are all much smaller conflicts than Ukraine is and Syria was. Single-digit thousands of deaths per year. Despite that I personally did volunteer work for Karen refugees of the Myanmar/Burma conflict because I happened to be in Thailand at the time. I brought up Ukraine and Syria because they had a roughly comparable number of deaths per year at their peaks, with no other conflict close. I'll admit that there are conflicts, like the tigray war, that I haven't responded to proportionately as I have to the others, but the thing is, I recognize that as racism, that's a character flaw that I need to work on. Evidently, I have a mental stumbling block that has prevented me from valuing African lives to the same extent as I do others. If I accept this as racism, I think it is fair to call it antisemitism when people disproportionately care when it is Jews doing the killing.
@@InternetLaser I think the reason why people are more appalled by Israel committing genocide than with the similar situation in Burma or east Congo is that it’s done by a democracy. If it’s some psychopathic dictator and authoritarian state doing it it’s somehow less offensive to our sense of human decency. But when a democracy is doing this it’s not just the dictator and authoritarian regime, it’s all the people who voted for the government, it’s the people themselves supporting the genocide. And that’s more difficult to understand.
Hi Vlad, To your first point, I believe Douglas Murray is responding to Muslims who pretend to care about Gaza because of a fake sense of Muslim unity that only exists when it involves jews. To your second point, I think ww2 was uniquely horrific because it was a government using industrial methods to exterminate its own loyal citizens. It also happened in a country that was at the peak of civilization. What is interesting about the different types of "hatred" against groups is how different they are. For example, homophobia comes almost entirely from a religious standpoint. For example, nobody says god hates Jews because they are "unnatural". Instead, antisemitism is all about conspiracy theories and blood libels. It is also possible to spread lies or even truths about Jews that portray them as especially evil while not having any hatred to Jews. Something like this would be like saying "I love all races but I believe some are smarter than others". That is still racist but there is no hatred there. When I see my friends from school sharing posts that portray Jews in a very negative way without doing any checking to see if it is true, that is antisemitic because they would never do the same to anyone else despite jews being one of the smallest minorities in the west and already eradicated in the east.
I'm not sure I agree. I've noticed that a certain amount of racism seems to label the "other" as having something that is normally thought of as something superior, whether it is or isn't. Examples vary but one often hears of some group being crafty or thrifty or that old favorite of somehow having exceptional sexual prowess.
@@quintrankid8045 That is what I would define as stereotyping which is similar in that it applies traits to people that you have never met but does not produce groups whose primary focus is the destruction of another group.
I'm queer in Denmark. One of the most atheist countries in the world. I have experienced hate-crimes perpetrated from white, atheist, 20-25 year old men, who has been in a church 5 times in their lives. There's a massive rise of hate-crimes towards LGBTQ+ by that exact segment. Hatred by said men towards any minority is insanely high. Just to feed your data points that need input
@@charisma-hornum-fries sure bro. And how many "hate crimes" have been perpetrated by the alphabet people against white males?
People used to be really tolerant, but you can't blame them for pushing back.
The impossibility of perfect impartiality does not make serious bias acceptable or excusable.
I'm looking forward to more of your elaborations on the subject. I feel like this is an incredibly heated topic and I appreciate your calmness and conciseness.
I love how nuanced your take is.
Thank you, dear Vlad for your gentleness!
Good to see you in the chair again Vlad. Wishing you good health!
Dear Vlad, thank you for this information. The more I learn from you the more I want to know.
@@alanchristensen5735 thank you so much
I appreciate this thoughtfulness ..
Always worth listening to you Vlad. Always worth working towards clarity of thought
Netanyahu does tend to dismiss all criticism of himself or his government's actions as anti-semitic,
and he is a kleptocrat that is controversial even in Israel. one of the reasons 10/7 was so brutal was because many soldiers were protesting his attempts to gain more political power. he also has done some things (I'm not sure exactly what) to prolong the war to avoid his own corruption trial.
I think he tends to do that when the critics are anti-semites.
Welcome to politics
@andrewclarke9978 Let's not trivialize the evil that this man is.
@@adamgates1142 Whether or not he Netanyahu can rightly be considered evil its fair to critique what seems to be a trivial comment. However Netanyahu reaction to re-direct criticism as anti-semetic when at times it may not be so is a political response common to many situations around the world.
Damned Vlad! I love how you analyze things. You honestly help keep me sane
Thank you, Vlad.
Looks like Vla'd's attempt to crap on Douglas Murray is a rather poor one. Either Vlad does not understand Murray's argumentation, or he is willfully misrepresents it in order to add validity to his own point. And since Vlad is always trying to position himself as an intelectual then the "misunderstanding" part goes out the window. So we are dealing with dishonest aim at dismissal of Murray's argument, which pinpoints anti-semitism as selective empathy.
Murray is one of the most dishonest and mentally limited fascists around. He's a cheap rhetorician with nothing substantive to say. I think a single one of Vlad's videos has more substance than all of Murray's books combined.
The world is on fire, in part because the issues you are addressing, have not been understood. Thank you Vlad.
Ok, I am a Jew, and what I am going to say is relevant to the discussion. I think you missed the point of antisemitism in some crucial aspects.
First of all: antisemitism works differently than most prejudices in the following way. While most predjuices argue that the other is inferior to your own group, antisemitism argues that the Jew is more intelligent than your own group, but uniquely evil and manipulative. This crucial difference makes antisemitism hard to detect.
Second: antisemitism is not uniquely European or coming from XX century Europe. The Holocaust is not uniquely evil to us, because it is just a more extreme version of many pogroms and genocide attempts that we have suffered in our millenia of History. Arguably, it happened to every group in History at every time, but we carry the memory. We have suffered hundreds of pogroms and genocidal attempts. And this includes, besides Europe, both in the Arab World, and in the past (in the Roman Empire, Babylonians, Egyptians, etc).
Thirdly: most criticism of Israel is not antisemitic. But there is a very specific strain, usually called "antizionism" that was artificially created by the KGB in the 70s, together with the Arab Nationalist movement, and this specific ideology is antisemitic.
Sorry but most historians agree that the Egypt story is more of a myth than history .
Assyrians did conduct a genocidal war, which was a common occurrence at the time....(abundantly advocated for in the Torah ), Babylonians did not as is reported in same Torah , which BTW is not an accurate historical source, however we have other concurring evidence to support that fact.
When discussing antisemitism it is hardly helpful to bring to the table a mumbo jumbo of facts and myths....that is exactly what antisemites do.
Yes, anti-Semitism rarely argue that Jews are inferior, rather that they are evil and hence even more dangerous since not-inferior. However, this makes anti-Semitism less evil and less harmful in general rather than more. I would much rather be seen as superhuman smart and manipulative rather than subhuman. Second, it is not true that the Jews have suffered „hundreds of genocide attempts”. If you compared the fate of the Jews to other religious minority groups in history, many of those groups were actually wiped out and the Jews were quite often treated sparingly in the world where lack of tolerance and mandatory conformity to majority were the norm. Only the Holocaust changed the nature of persecution of the Jews by being quintessential genocide. Your third point may well be right, I have no quarrel with it.
Also antisemitism is very closely tied to conspiracy thinking, which seems to be, for some reason, a very resilient (and wrong) way of looking at the world and its supposed power structures in our western culture.
I would say that it was earlier than the 70s in terms of USSR, and that the political far left (what people would call woke) took a lot of its messaging from there so while its origins are specific it has spread quite a bit.
Yes, systematic antizionism started with Krushev in the early 60s, sorry. I got confused because it really exploded in size with 6 days war.
I can't help but feel like a definition of what anti-semitism is might have been useful here.
Great chat and I appreciate that you're turning your attention next to anti-Islamic/Muslim speech. In regards to antisemitism, as a non-Jew, I feel a strong impulse to carefully check my critiques of the Israeli government and, even more so, Israeli citizens, for possible antisemitism. I think this is healthy. At the same time, it's also healthy to push back when I believe the antisemitism card is being overplayed as a way to cut off debate, as in the case of Sam Harris and his disingenuous / slanderous labeling of all US college protestors as "Pro-Hamas" and "antisemitic."
...indeed...as an African, I wonder about another example closer to home....why is anti-tutsism not a thing but anti-semitism is....even contemplating that question reveals much...
I might be in the wrong here, but its hard to see those protestors as anything but, when youre chanting ''from the river to the sea!'' youre either conciously antisimetic, or at least parroting a political message wich you dont understand, but still spreads anti semitism.
There are fair criticisms of Israel for sure, and there are non anti simetic criticisms of Israel, however the specific ecosystem in US college campuses is very specifically that mindless trendy far left one, wich acts as a monolythic hive mind, that purges any dissent, and rn that monolyth is squarely placed on being openly antisimetic.
I can elaborate on why i think its a monolyth and why its antisimetic rn
@@garethamery3167anti-tutsi is in fact a thing, but just a very local one. Anti-jew, on the other hand, is not local, it's a very weird phenomenon of hate that occurs in diferent places, diferent times by different ideologies/ beliefs. It's so weird that there are folks who never met or seen a jus but have the hate as if all jus were the exact same.
@@puraLusa Yes. Thank you for making the subtlety explicit. I did mean the distinction you made but was a little sloppy in expression
@@garethamery3167 As far as I know, I've never even met a Tutsi. On the other hand, I've known a hell of a lot of people who were Jewish or of Jewish heritage, including people at an extended family reunion.
I've reported probably hundreds of Xitter posts for being antisemitic. Never encountered such a post about Tutsis.
One of them is pervasive in my society. The other is effectively non-existent.
How pervasive is anti-tutsism in Africa as a whole? Genuine question.
Thank you very much as always.
I want to say before watching. I respect you taking on some very controversial topics. That's courageous.
Potentially a video on Islamophobia sometime? I could be considered an Islamophobe. I do not like the religion. I don't think it belongs here (although I do believe it could change into something that could fit, but in reality it wouldn't be Islam anymore. Just like how most muslims aren't real muslims.) It causes unnecessary friction and problems. Europe doesn't seem to know how to deal with it. How do we integrate Islam into Europe? Do we even try to integrate Islam or try to get rid of it? Do we centralize preaching with vetted imams who preach values that align with ours? We have no strategy. Muslims themselves can't even agree on Islam. How do we respond to this? Maybe I'm concerned for no reason?
Anyway, get well!
Edit: You can probably tell from what I said, but I want to clarify that there is a clear distinction between Islam and muslims. Just like Christianity and Christians.
Edit 2: Damn, I was too fast. 😂
Looking forward to the video.
The biggest problem with Islam is the Jihadist wing of Islamic thought and how mainstream Jihadist thought is within Islam. Sam Harris does excellent nuance on this topic.
@@ninjacats1647 I essentially regard American Islam as reform Islam at this point. You can still find jihadist thought here, but the longstanding US tradition of being a settler society has resulted in the vast majority of American Muslims simply being Americans who happen to practice Islam and are perfectly happy to coexist with other religions in peace. If we ever want to see an end to medieval, jihadist Islam globally, then this is likely the only viable version of the faith to replace it.
@@zibbitybibbitybop How do you integrate the recent campus protests and what might be termed at least anti-Israel sentiment, although I've heard this spilled over into preventing some Jewish students from attending classes, with your beliefs that American Islam is reformed Islam?
All religions are fine. But when they fail to adapt to local laws and even try to force illegal acts, like physical mutilation, attack women rights, engage in pedophilia with lobbies, against refugees whom try to escape these persecutions, a whole secular democratic population... I call it transnational criminality, genocide, war. Divide to conquer, create unrest, manipulate institutions... salami slicing, create useful idiots in government to create foot in the door policies, leading to more abuse. Just no. Religion and spirituality, why not. Religion as a socioeconomic weapon for genocide and domination, no.
@@quintrankid8045 Infiltration of our institutions to weaponize them against our own rights using our own rights... I call it transnational criminality. The United Front, GRU and radical Islamist groups are very determined to undermine all our institutions. Protect our institutions, protect democracy and the secular character (if it applies) of our societies.
I would push back on your criticism about douglas murray. I think he meant the lack of proportions about all kinds of injustices that are going on in the world and it's comparison with relentless criticism of Israel. Not just the Asad regime
Thank you, Vlad, for your conversation with us. Looking forward to your next prejudice episode. All the best to you health-related and otherwise. Lots of love to you and the Beautiful Community. 🤗
Appreciate this topic, thank you
Surely the fundamental point is that it is not prejudice to criticise Israel for its killing of civilians in Gaza, based on the same principles that lead us to criticize Russia for its killings of civilians in Ukraine. There were no demonstrations against Assad, because our governments were not selling weapons to Syria. Britain's supply of military help to a country that is using them to commit war crimes - as seems beyond doubt with Israel - amounts to complicity by our government in those war crimes, and that is why we must object to it, for as long as our democracy allows us to - a prospect which may not be unconditional.
we need to remember that people can be both victim and monster, and sometimes the latter stems from the former.
Indeed! I used to actually defend Rogan as "the common American voice" and now I feel very stupid about that, but at the same time, I suppose we need to assume people (being human, after) DO change and DO evolve... devolve as the case may be. It's like finding a static spot in a river. Impossible unless frozen!
I'm sorry but I will not allow you attempt to rationalize genocidal acts.
We also need to remember to separate leaders from citizens.
@emallace447 What a no doubt well intentioned, but ultimately silly sentiment.
If we accept the premise that these are genocidal acts, then how else do we prevent such actions from taking place in the future if we don't rationalise what motivates them?
If you want bad things to stop happening then you have to understand why bad things happen, that's a non-negotiable step if you're approaching these matters seriously.
The fact that Netanyahu constructed fascist genocidal regime around him has nothing to do with him being a jew.
I love you like a brother. Thank you. I have been listening and you are fantastic.
I have listened to all corners of media and politics in Australia label reasonable and principled protest against the war as anti-semitism. It is a very unfortunate and unhelpful situation, since it shuts down rational debate about what is happening in Gaza and in the region.
oh. this should be the series. It's like watching keanu Reeves cut the red wire.
So far so good Vlad lol
Yes, this was indeed very helpful. That final analogy about football is a lovely one. I hope it doesn't lose those folks who don't get sports analogies. But you create a dialectic between the standard of weaker, slow to claim, and stricter, literal clear prima facie calls and flags on the field. Of course there's always the ludic fallacy to contend with, already challenged by the fact that the game of life keeps going, despite folks grabbing the ball with their hands. But for an analogy, there's lots here which folks can contribute
Nice work Vlad
Good morning Vlad . Excellent description and analysis of this perennial and vexing issue . Onwards and upwards.
Dear Vlad,
Have been following your channel (Chat and Main channel) practically since the start. And like many other among us you've given me a great insight and understanding in the Russian thought process and inner workings of the country on political levels etc., which gives a kind of peace in placing events in order and at the same time learning a lot! This in contrary to my political leaders of the country I live in (Netherlands), I guess it's a generational thing. But lately you seem to focus more and more on external events, Trump, Anti-Semitism, Musk and so on.
At the beginning of the Russian-Ukrain war I have been following as much things as possible.
On a military (Preghozin), geo political (Putin's will for multi polar world) and Russian (Navalny death, authoritarian state turning more and more into totalitarian state) and EU level (finally putting more money/higher % GDP in army), as a few examples.
But lately I've been feeling ( I think also like many others ) a bit fatigued with following the war, it feels like we have created an echo chamber whereas everything Russian is total bad, and everything American is total good. I know, looking at solely the Russian - Ukraining war, this makes sense. BUT.....
For me it is also important to think BEYOND this war, how could the world look like after the war, or maybe even more bald (book 1984), how could the world look like if we keeping a constant state of war, perhaps between the major powers.
Perhaps it's important to state I m from the Netherlands/EU, have a wifey from Asia, did an Erasmus study programme in Prague, Czech Repubic & made also many Russian friends there, worked in very international working environments all my life (global energy construction sector) grew up as a child in the good old nineties which were apparently a small blob of peaceful times.
With saying this, I mean to say that I m still convinced that European future does NOT solely lie within a relationship with the U.S.A. but also towards the east, though maybe not yet at this point in time. Gerard Schöder fascinates me in this regard.
Would you consider making more chats and videos again about subjects we can still learn from and are mostly still unknown to the majority of people in the West? Because that is where you are at your uppermost best and perhaps it is a good way to get out of the (war) Echo chamber I was referring to! I love your videos like ''Putin's weakening power inside his own regime'' etc., but I know there is way more depth behind it then Putin only.... Like for example who are the exact people in Putin's regime.
Just some subjects I would be interested in:
-Elvira Nabiullina and other 2 or 3 most influenceale people or groups in Russia now
-Kazachstan as a country (quite wealthy) and with new prime minister, while Putin new prime minister visited they actually talked in their Kazach Language instead of Russian (unknown of). Means Putin got what he wished for right back in his face, multipolar world :''
-Gaining influence of China in the far east of Russia in city's like Vladivostok and area's like Siberia?
-can't think of more at this moment but I m looking forward to you suprising us!
Not anti-semitism, but antisemitism (because there is no "semitism", and it's not about "Semites" but Jews specifically; Semite was a codeword in anti-Jewish intellectual circles in Germany in the late 19th century using racial purity theories).
I was able to follow this all the way through. Thank you for your analysis.
I found Finkelsteins analysis on anti semitism interesting, I know he's a controversial figure, but it is very hard to dispute his rigorous research and publications. His point was that in the US (and generally the west) at this point in history, many of the figures on growing anti semitism by institutions such as the ADL have muddied the waters because they include criticism of the Israeli regime and often entirely ignore antisemitism coming from an increasingly emboldened far right. He also made the point that at this particular point in time a Jewish last name or identity does not make it harder to obtain a job, a mortgage, bank loan etc. According to him it even gives you a leg up in certain institutions. This does not mean anti semitism is not a problem and has no need to be fought every day.
What is the difference between anti semitism abd anti Zionism?
Depends on how we construe Zionism - for instance, you could construe Zionism minimally as the notion that Jews needed a state of their own. The question then arises, what kind of state?
To you us there a difference Vlad?
@@oliverbird6914 of course - questioning even minimal conceptions of Zionism does not have to be antisemitic.
I think it depends what your definition of anti zionism is.
I think isreal shouldn't cease to exist, but I also don't think it should be allowed to do horrible things. Some people would call that zionism and the word has lost all meaning.
@@VladVexlerChatwhat a dodge. Any definition of Zionism can be distinguished from antisemitism because Zionism is a nationalist ideology. An antisemite can easily be both a Zionist and an islamaphobe. I have no idea why you feel compelled to portray these concepts so vaguely.
There is a significant problem whereby there is a nation state, whose faith, ethnic identity and its peoples past are intertwined as being one in the same. Such states seek immunity from criticism by claiming to criticise one part is by extension to criticise all parts and thus you can be branded as being anti-whatever the case may be.
There is an obvious difference between the circumstance in Syria and that of Gaza, western states were broadly against Assad with some actively supporting his opposition while in Gaza they are supporting Israel and aiding them to prosecute the war. If protest is aimed at influencing policy at home it makes sense regardless of any partiality.
So then take the case of Yemen and assistance to Saudi Arabia. Yemen is a far worse situation than either Syria or Gaza and only recently is being eclipsed by Sudan as the worst conditions because of war.
Deep down, the fact that one seeks a theorerical justification of a different ethical view on innocent civilians dying in the Gaza strip vs dying in Syria, Yemen or Sudan, and even deliberately puts more emphasis on the gazawi, while the number of victims is one order of magnitude lower, is racist.
Either because it implies that the Israelis, being jews, are inherently more guilty; or because it implies that the arabs and sudanese, not being western, are just doing what is culturally expected of them.
That's what Murray is saying when he talks about hypocrisy: you cannot simultaneously defend a special moral treatment of the Israel-HMS conflict and pretend you are anti-racist.
Thank you for your video, Vlad. I may need to watch it again, but I prefer a more tangible definition to be honest (e.g. is a Jewish person allowed to live where they like, work where they like and in what job they like, are they free from violence or threats of violence for being Jewish, etc. You know, systemic Antisemitism, if you will.
It is the absence of malice in the apparatus of the holocaust that scares me. How it was a bureaucracy, not a vilolent massacre..
It was a violent massacre in its execution, absolutely horrible cruel murders against individuals, all innocent and including children and elderly, women, poor, rich, educated , uneducated. And it was bureaucratically tracked and organized
That’s how people are, they just go with the “flow” for the most part. Even if the “flow” means a genocide here, some war crimes there…
I would say it was both.
I wish you had touched on the uniqueness of antisemitism as a prejudice, culturally. It's unique because of its origin in Christian theology, which is still so much at the foundation of European culture. As a part of culture, it IS something that lives inside of us.
Ouf. Thanks for the effort, but I need to listen to this again to digest it. And not while working.
You seem to be a very little bit better today - I hope I am right? I do wish you improved health.
I appreciate you addressing this difficult topic very much, but I found your descriptions of the different kinds of speech a bit over my head, particularly the distinction of political and non-political speech. Some examples would have helped a lot.
I have heard some criticisms of Israel as a Jewish state that seemed quite convincing to me; I would love to hear you on the legitimacy of Israel. I very much support Judaism and Jews, and would hate to be at all anti-Semitic or anti-Jewish, but it does seem to me that the existence of a supposedly liberal democratic state that is also intended to be the particular home of one ethnic/religious group is problematic. I'd love to hear you discuss that.
When Vlad goes full-on philosophy mode it makes a great way for me to benchmark my mental acuity... whether it's because I had a couple of nights of bad sleep, or because this sort of looking for generalisable principles is just difficult for me to get my head around*, IDK, but this is definitely a video I'll need to watch twice, at least.
* That image (similar to Vlad's "putting ideas in your tummy") is quite juicy, I think, though its a cliche... some of this material went into my head (and some of that's still in there!) but some went over my head, whistled past my ears or parted my hair :)
You’re contribution to humanism is immeasurable.
Voad, thank you for the video! It is a very important topic and I think it is also useful to distinguish between antisemitism and general prejudice. Like there are prejudices against different states, for example. Imperialist America, victimized Africa etc. So there is antisemitism and there is prejudice against Israel. In my opinion, antisemitism like racism constitutes some deep belief that this category of people is inherently different from the rest and has very precise personality traits which allows the “rest” to believe all kinds of tales about such people much more easily than they would have otherwise. Here goes the presumed oversexuality of colored people or malicious cleverness of Jews. Consequently, it makes it much easier to blame those categories as a group without giving it a second thought. Moreover, it doesn’t have to be a heated argument indeed, as you mentioned. I remember my soviet grandma telling me, when I was studying in a very good school initially organized by Jews, that I will never be one of them, that they are clever and it’s good to be around them but I’ll never be like them. That is deeply antisemitic in my view exactly because it perceives an ethnicity as a very distinct and homogeneous group. So, criticism of Israel can be antisemitic if it operates within those lines of unique maliciousness and closeness of Jews, when politics of Israel is understood and explained through those personality traces. But if the critic takes information about the conflict at face value without giving it a second thought or measuring it from different sides and builds the criticism on that, it doesn’t always mean the critic is antisemitic, just that they have a prejudice against the state of Israel itself. On the other hand, if the critic fully understands the data they use, the trustworthiness of this data, and analyses from different perspectives, then there is neither prejudice nor antisemitism in it
If I'm scared of living under Sharia law, does this make me Islamophobic?
Looking forward to the next videos.
Does it make Palestinians anti-semitic to not want to live under apartheid?
Palestinians are more Semitic but they been accused that they are anti Semitic because they don't want to live under Talmud law..
@@TheTruth-ko9ov "talmud law" what a projection lmao. there is more religious freedom in Israel than any Muslim country you can name. you're beyond delusional.
@@TheTruth-ko9ov Palestinians are not semitic. There are no semitic races/nations, only languages (Hebrew, Arabic). The term antisemitism was invented in Germany to serve as a euphemism for anti-jew, hence why is it applied to only jews. I understand you urge to protect Palestinians but it's not a good reason to misrepresent facts. BTW: Israel doesn't live under Talmud Law either.
@@stepanbaranov8459
You say there's no Semitic nations and it invented in Germany but still it used until now as if it's a crime to criticize it, so if some people still use it it means also it applies for Palestinians whether they are Arabs or Aramaic anf also for Arab nation especially Arabian peninsula.. and yeah they live under Talmud law and its belief in alot of aspects even if alot don't obey it. Even Netanyahu himself said the legal system is based on talmud
"These are orcs coming my way and they are also an Asiatic horde." That's just another way to dehumanize the enemy. We've seen it in way too many conflicts and we've also seen the results of it. So no, there's no difference between the soldier, the philosopher or the historian.
Thanks again Vlad. Helped to unknot some tangles especially after a second listen. The human aggression tendency feels like a salient point. Best wishes.
I enjoyed this, it illuminated Vlad's philosophical position on both private and public prejudice. I have been curious about his interpretation of transphobia since his oblique mentions of the topic in previous chats. I look forward to more chats that show how these thoughts can be generalised.
Thanks for coming back to this topic Vlad, maybe the cacophony surrounding it has lead to some soul searching.
Sadly, the term anti-Semitic has become abused, banalised & used as a weapon.
Thank-you for pointing this out, the rest of this series will be interesting.
Great work thank you
The term has been devaluated by knee jerk labeling to the point where it is useless.
For example, every criticism of Israel state actions is automatically labeled.
I think some aspect is actually everyone devalued it. I was telling a friend about an actual hate crime done and he went on a rant about how anything bad done to Jewish people is always labeled as antisemitism. He didn't even wait for me to say that it was done by a n4z1.
Its convenient for people who don't want to vet their allies and for people who want to criticize activists if we pretend either nothing or everything is antisemitism and that ultimately is destroying the movement.
This goes both ways.
Simple solution: if someone describes something with one word you don't agree with, ask the person to expand on it with more words and most difference go away in 90% of real world discussion.
If you mean in social media, then... What do you expect?
It's worse. Even any criticism of that criminal Netanyahu (and, for example, the warrant for his arrest) is now automatically labeled antisemitic.
@@olavl8827 the warrant is antisemitic.
UN must be disbanded for aiding terrorism.
Including UNWAR and UNIFAIL.
That doesn't mean that Netanyahu is a saint. He is facing a lot of rightful criticism, especially from within his country.
As a Buddhist, I find the Western worlds inordinate fascination with Jews as well as the notion that Jews are somehow a "historically unique people" to be absolutely preposterous.
It never sat right with me. Jamaicans are a historically unique people, Koreans are a historically unique people, etc. There is no way on earth of explaining how Jews are somehow a unique or special people without denigrating the rest of the entire human race, which itself is a common sentiment among extremist Jews.
How about everyone just shut up about Jews ffs.
Jews aren’t historically unique people 😂😂😂😂😂😂 are you new to the world or……….?
It's Talmudic Thinking, the obsessive desire to examine everything, from every angle, endlessly. That produces great philosophy and even greater science. But at its core is Doubt. And that is why I believe the Jews are hated - beside all the Christ killer nonsense - is that they are The Fathers of Doubt and most humans demand certainty.
That is a healthy way to think but Jews were victims of an eradication attempt in the West that was so successful they have still not returned to the amount that they were before WW2. In Muslim countries the eradication was total. The guilt of having either perpetrated, ignored, or benefited from this eradication attempt is what is behind many Westerners' attitudes toward Jews today.
"There is no way on earth of explaining how Jews are somehow a unique or special people without denigrating the rest of the entire human race".
My response: Acknowledging the uniqueness of a group of people does not require denigrating every other group. I am not sure how you came to this conclusion.
As a Jew whose entire family has been Jewish for ages, I can tell you with absolute certainty that all we want is to be left the hell alone for once. Even the ultra orthodox don't proselytize, which means that if everybody would just freakin' ignore us, we'd all get along fine.
This took a week to get to me. Glad to see you upright. I would like to hear a definition of what makes a nation "!Legitimate". Because I don't see that enforced appropriation and granting by colonial powers and their powerful friends as legitimising. And Woodrow Wilson's "Self Determination of peoples" went straight to the trash can in 1919. On self defining anti-Semitism: On one side of the coin, criticism of Israel and it's behaviour or existence "must" be anti-Semitic, because the self identification with Israel "must" exist, because you are a Jew. No other logical position can exist. Thus it results in their being many anti-Semitic Jews, because there are Jewish communities who think that it should never have come into being.
For my thoughts on antisemitism, i don't think you can always id it because some aspect is intention.
What has bothered me over the last year is that one group wants to insist nothing at all that any member did is antisemitic. I have been told that if nick fuentes showed up to fight for gaza, he should be welcomed because he is there for justice.
Ive also seen the other side insist that everything is antisemitism.
There is a middle point but nuance is hard when you're emotional.
Thank you so much for this vital analysis. Looking forward to the follow-up about Islamophobia.
a phobia is an irrational fear of something usually harmless. There's nothing irrational about fearing Islam and there's nothing harmless about Islam.
There is an irrational prejudice against individual Muslims which is unsubstantiated - but not against Islamists
And in the same way there is nothing irrational about fearing judaism.
@@WhiteWolf126 the reason people fear Judaism is because they believe in conspiracy theories about the "Elders of Zion" and all of Der Stürmer-like propaganda about evil juice trying to take over the world.
But, contrary to Islam, Judaism is not an expansionist religion, is not a proselityzing religion, and does not have any violent commandments. If Jews live in your neighbourhood, you may call yourself lucky. If Muslims live in your neighbourhood, you are a dead man walking.
@@WhiteWolf126 On principle, yes. But it's the least threatening of the violent Abrahamic religions.
@@svr5423 lol, no, judaism is by far the most violent and supremacist of the three
@@svr5423 lol no, it's by far the most violent and supremacist of the three
Duglas is making a point by showing a fundamental thing - no one cares about a conflict if Jews are not mentioned. Let's face the fact - UN "peacekeepers" in Lebanon became a cover for terrorists and not only never tried to stop them, but made videos of rocket launches ~100m from UN bases. The UN had more anti-Israel resolutions than all dictator regimes combined. The UN makes a condemning resolution against Israel ~ every year and almost never criticizes actual dictators and wars. These facts just became so obvious, that people usually do not realize them. Any single one of them could be just a fact of some human mistake, but combined - it's kinda a clear picture for me.
And let's face the fact that anti-Zionism is just a weapon of antisemitism. No one criticizes Jordania or Pakistan for the fact of their existence, but Israel is under attack of that kind.
If these are not facts for serious discussion - I don't know what facts (not some pseudo-intellectual theories) should be mentioned.
Difference is we trade with and arm Israel we don’t do much with Syria, we are complicit/ supporters so should discuss our role more. We are not supporting Syria / Assad.
@@rjmahan Let me remind you, that Iran's parliament openly chants "death to the USA" and made huge progress in creating a nuclear weapon. Somehow I can see some pattern in these two facts. Add the Houthis who are armed and trained by Iran and starting to control the trade routes.
So what is the USA's role? Probably to ensure the safety of its own citizens. And I think that Iran's nuclear weapons (and Iran's proxies - like Lebanon's Hezbollah) are not making their life more safe.
@OldLizard Have you heard what the Americans say about Iran?
@@rjmahan thats true, but then the conclusion could be that we should stop arming them, not that they are an illegitimate state.
We generally dont go that route becauase we decided that the world is legitimate as it is, and no more wars should happen, Israel is the only place on earth were the UN is seriously considering different borders being more morally legitimate
@@rjmahan We were supporting Saudi Arabia in Yemen, we trade with China despite what they are doing to the Uygurs and neither of those got much attention
I think this is a bit muddled because following your political definition of antisemitism Jewish people who criticize Israel harshly but don't have an antisemitic mindset could still be considered antisemitic under the law. I think this is both confusing and potentially dangerous.
You had me nodding along up until you brought out a word with a very particular history and connotation like "barbarism" (I don't necessarily object to this) while at the same time sanitizing the calculated and methodical "liquidation" of an entire people behind a word like "war"-- and also *never even being willing to NAME that people* which of itself carries a very serious and ugly sort of intent behind it- not even giving someone the dignity of their name. People who have lived their whole lives in a cage after having everything taken from them often multiple times... if that does not qualify as decades of "barbarism" then I'm not sure your usage of the word carries a coherent meaning behind intending to mark someone as "culturally inferior" for doing just exactly what most human beings would end up doing in the same situation.
btw, the uniqueness got debated ad nauseam in the 1986-87 German Historikerstreit. Proponents of its singularity also made very secular points, such as no other genocide in history having combined rigerous bureaucracy & technocratic innovation into industrialized execution as a fundamental reason of state
Thank you for such a thoughtful video! and I hope you are getting better!
There are two major points that I'm surprised that you didn't touch or expanded further:
1. Holding all Jews responsible for what the Israeli government is doing is the most simply recognised form of anti-semitism (maybe you didn't touch it because it's so simple but I think it's worth pointing that out). Even when Jews show solidarity to the suffering of the Palestinians by going to meeting/rallies, they are often required to denounce Israel or some nonsense like that, which non-Jews are never asked to do. I think it's because of the assumed sympathy of Jews to the idea that they have a right for self-determination. Which brings me to my next point.
2. Saying that Israel is illegitimate and therefore doesn't have a right to exist (aka anti-zionism) IS an expression of anti-semitism UNLESS one also mentions that no nation-state is legitimate and they should no exist (anarchism). Basically, people who claim that they are anti-zionists deny the right for self-determination only to Jews and that why they are anti-semitism. In fact, as you mentioned many anti-semitists just use the criticism of Israel to express their hatred for Jews, and most likely they don't care about the Palestinians. That's why so many are also sympathetic to Hamas - whose goal is not the liberation of the Palestinians or at least lowering their suffering but mostly destruction of Israel and they don't care how many Palestinians die in the process.
@@isaacdimaaksen thank you so much!
This is a beautiful elaboration of that which is obvious to most reasonable people.
Hello dear Vlad! xx 🎉
Its inportant to remember, that some of the most enthusiastic backers of Natinyahu's current actions (evangelical christians in the US) are infact deeply antisemitic! ...Running with your point seperating the levels of political criticism and antisemitism.
This logic can also be aplied whith examples like Saudi Arabia, with which the west allso has a close (but obviously very different) relationship.
you are doing a John Gray presentation. thank you i got 15% the rest was me analizing that 15% during it all. I will com back to this, i see rough diamonds around
It will become clearer with examples, doubtless.
You have such a talent to articulate these nuances so well, which we, mere mortals, more or less realize but are unable to put in words. The only point that I think you missed is how ignorance plays so much into the expressions of antisemitism. As in the current Israel-Gaza conflict how the political, social, structural, religious circumstances in Gaza contribute to the excessive morality. This disregard for the facts on the ground contribute to the perception of antisemitism because it looks as if there are double standards for a Jewish nation and for everyone else.
*Anyone who thinks Vlad is boring and impossible to understand should not be here.*
Brother Vlad. You deserve a break from TH-cam. Time for love and family, especially with Christmas drawing near ❤
I will be sending you my sincerest wishes 🫂
Could you do this again, except with examples of each instance of what you're talking about - either invented or taken from real cases? The level of pure abstraction makes it quite difficult to follow what you're saying. I'm none the wiser about whether, say, Jeremy Corbyn was fairly or unfairly accused of antisemitism (or at least of having a high tolerance for antisemitism among his comrades). I mean, I have a clear view on that myself, but I can't derive anything at all about that question from what you said here.
Don't get me wrong - it's not that I didn't find this stimulating in many ways; it just left me wanting (much) more!
Glad to see vlad cast his ken around the world again!
I need some further understanding. Is there a way to know when by _not_ making two different but related events categorically different that you are not committing the continuum fallacy?
I would measure it against reality, or in regards to humanity, the best quality historical research on humanity's inhumanity. And then make your mind up. No-one can do that for you.
@@CuriousCrow-mp4cx Yeah, I was hoping there was a bit more broad, "rule-of-thumb" that I could apply, but probably it's a case-by-case basis.
@@CuriousCrow-mp4cxsearch your own heart and biases first.