A BSA beating Bonnie?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2024
- I ride a Triumph Speed Twin 900 around the Algarve. What is this bike like? Do I think it is better than my own BSA Goldstar 650. Finally, why is there a little dislike of Triumph in the Modern Retro bike community...
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Nice review. What always impresses me about Triumph's retros is the clean look of their engines. They've obviously put a lot of thought into hiding the wiring and plumbing and it results in a very handsome motor. To be able to see daylight through the engine despite all the modern emissions gubbins and water cooling is quite an achievement.
As an owner of a speed twin 900 and previous owner of a Royal Enfield Interceptor I would make the following observations. The Speed 900, as you say, is a bit of a hybrid to the modern classics with a bit more of a sporty look than the Interceptor. The fit and finish is a step up from the Interceptor - albeit the original version. The standard pipes are pretty good both in terms of style and sound as you found. The engine is great with plenty of torque throughout the rev range - and a lot more than with the Interceptor although I still found it sufficient for the vast majority of road riding. The gears are a bit of an issue. They work fine but I keep finding myself looking for the sixth gear on motorways and dual carriageways. Fortunately I don’t do a great deal of that. Tyres are great especially compared to the Pirellis and Ceats of the Interceptor. Seats are adequate for an hour or so but not the most comfortable. Rear suspension I found a big improvement and great for a relaxed country road bimble. I don’t ride the bike hard around corners so can’t really vouch for it in that regard. Changing suspension on the Interceptor was a must for me but certainly doesn’t feel like I need to change it on the speed twin for the kind of riding I do. Fuel economy in my experience is on a par with the interceptor. I average 68mpg. When the fuel light comes on it will still show 50-55 miles to empty and I only get 8-9 litres in - so fuel light shows at around 100 miles which sounds pretty similar to your experience. So overall am I happy a year in - yes with a few caveats which you highlight. Perhaps the styling and riding position of the T100, would be better suited to you, although it’s pretty much the same engine. I look forward to hearing you review it at some point. Great review and pretty much spot on with your comments. Cheers.
Thanks for this comment Nigel. Nice to hear your comparisons as an owner of the Interceptor and this street twin. Everything you mentioned I also agree with and found riding it. It's a step up for sure from the BSA and the I Interceptor, I think particularly the Interceptor is bought by the masses because it's affordable and well regarded, the BSA is the harking to the past king and the Triumph is the quality and power option. Suzie it must be said loved the engine note and the bike in general. All 3 brands put out nice bikes IMO, although I'm trying to hang onto one bike for longer these days. I'm at 8 months now with the BSA 😅😃 but I'm pleased to have now experienced that Triumph 900cc engine... thanks, Sean
I've just jumped down to a BSA Gold Star. Previously I've owned a Bonneville SE and took it across Europe. I then sold it, regretted that decision and purchased a T100 and then part exchanged it for a Street Twin (which I still have) on which I did the NC500 last. Both the build quality and ride are excellent and in my opinion worth the asking price. Having just taken delivery of a Gold Star the bulid quality is not up to Triumph build quality hence the price at new difference and I'm going to assume it won't hold it's value. However, the riding experience though different to a Bonneville is what for me puts the Gold Star in the same league. Both bikes put a massive smile on my face. What more can you ask for.
Thank you for this comment. You are in a great position to have both these bikes, on a side note though, what a perfect video for you as an owner of the bike featured and my bike which I was principally comparing against! Thanks, Sean
Do you like the Street Twin more than the Bonneville? Also can you make the Street Twin look exactly like the Bonneville?
@@bigbadvicHoT100..
Great video ad ever. Loved the shots of the palm trees in the mirrors 😊
Great video. What lovely visuals 👌🏼
Thanks very much both and again congrats on the Silver play button! Sean
I used to sell motorcycles. Took a Speed Twin 900 for a test ride. What a fun bike and the exhaust sound really did it for me. Ended up buying a 1970 BSA RoyalStar with a lightning twin motor from a customer. Will ride it for a couple years but I know i'll end up with a T120.
I have a triumph speed twin 900,brilliant bike does everything I want it to.
Glad to hear this Brian. Thanks for your comment.
I bought my BSA Starfire back in 1970, still have it, bought my BSA A10 not long after, still have it, have owned a few other BSAs and love them. Back in the day I would never consider a Triumph as I'm BSA through and through but I have to say I'm so glad I bought my Triumph Bonneville Speedmaster! Great channel.
I own a 2018 Street Twin. Great bike with a few niggles, which have mostly been addressed on the newer Speed 900's:
1. The headlamp bracket have a tendency to guillotine the wiring loom. This was fixed by filing off the sharp edge off the bracket & raising the loom with cable tiest. There were rumours about a recall, but I think it only happened in the States.
2. As you pointed out the seat is a bit of an ironing board & little on the low side, so I replaced mine with a T100/120 item which required a slight modification to the catch. It sits a little high above the side panels, but I can live with it.
3. The original Pirelli Phantoms are probably the worst tyre ever fitted to a motorcycle, all style over substance - too hard, tendency to tramline & slippery when wet. These were replaced with Avon Spirit ST's giving a much smoother sure footed ride. Dont bother with the suspension its all to do with the tyres.
4. The gear lever was a bit close to the engine for my hideously flat 10 to 2 feet. This was corrected by extending the rubber outwards with a longer bolt & spacer.
With an OEM centre stand & short screen fitted, she's a keeper.
Thank you for this comment. Point 3 is of most interest, I have horrible pirellis on my bike as mentioned they feel like black plastic. My bike crashes and clatters over bumps, it would be amazing if a tyre change could have a dramatic effect and improvement. I have replacement tyres ready to fit so I guess ill find out. My phantoms are downright scary and I've no confidence in them... thanks, Sean
I have a 1200 Thruxton R. Just a superb bike. Feels like a precision piece of machinery. Everything just works so well. Triumph is top notch.
Cheers Scott for the comment.
The way I look at these things is - if the BSA, the Interceptor and the Speed Twin 900 were the exact same price which one would you buy? The BSA is seriously compromised on component quality and it’s only a single and although the Interceptor is improving it still can’t live with the Triumph.
Well that's a silly way of thinking, as most of us live in a reality where the difference between Interceptor and Speed Twin is enough for a couple of 2 week vacations. A bike that is 80% more expensive has to be objectively better than the cheaper one, you have to compare them, let's say pound for pound (or euro for euro or whatever)
@@radekknauer2891 80% more? The Triumph is listed at £8,795 and the Interceptor at £6,599 - that’s a 33% premium. I’m not criticising the Interceptor or the BSA for what they are but they are sold at a price the customer is willing to pay - and that is 33% less than people are prepared to pay for the Triumph. Maybe it’s unfair to compare these machines on a like for like basis. I do live in the real world, I’ve just paid £6,700 for a new Honda NX500. Why, because it was better value and considerably cheaper than the Triumph Tiger equivalent and I’m off to France for a couple of weeks to enjoy it on the money I’ve saved. 👍👍👍
@@radekknauer2891but those 2 vacations over how many years of ownership plus resale value? Enfields corrode, BSAs unproven. You get what you pay for.
An owners comparison. The Triumph Street/Speed Twin is worth the asking price, the Gold Star is £750/1000 over priced. Price aside I feel fortunate to own both
I told you the torque is ADDICTIVE!! Great vid mate...try a T100 definitely more "classic" or if you're feeling naughty a T120!
Scrambler 1200 in sport mode is pretty mean. I wonder how good the other 1200s are without sport mode
In the late sixties I owned three BSAs, a 1967 BSA 441 Victor, a 1968 BSA 441 Shooting Star and a 1969 BSA Rocket 3 but I always wanted a BSA Thunderbolt or Lightening Rocket. Fast forward to 2016 and Triumph came out with their new liquid cooled Bonnevilles and a Thruxton R and a T120 became my new "Thunderbolt" and quite frankly I don't think the new BSA is even close to the old BSAs compared to what a good job Triumph did with its "new retros". I no longer feel the need for a BSA new or old!
The Triumph bench seat is better than the standard.
I’ve got a 2016 StreetTwin.I still love it.Ive ridden the T120 and that was brilliant as well.Quality,reliable bikes that will still look good after years of ownership
Sean, a great review. So, when you are ready, my T120 is waiting for you to have a few days play. It would be great to hear your thoughts on the T120. Very objective 👍 and thanks for the mention 👍
That's very kind BP, I hope you are doing well and sorry for the delayed reply. By the way did your BSA go in the end?
@@MindfulMotorcyclist Not just yet, might be gone tomorrow. It's all about the weather and the weather in the UK has been very poor to date heance bikes simply do not sell. The UK has a great weather week ahead and if all goes well, I am doing a straight swap tomorrow morning with a real left fielder. Harley Davidson Street Rod 750. If this goes through, I really think you should have this bike for a review if you are in the UK. And.........I have no idea what it will be like but here is a review that you should have a look at:
th-cam.com/video/nxN_j1C_Xeg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=xVPti5cWM4LcA-2S
MY GOLD STAR IS A KEEPER, LIKE MY HONDA NC750X. BOTH UNCOMPLICATED AND A JOY TO RIDE AND EASY TO LIVE WITH. THE NC750X IS LONGER LEGGED AND MORE SUITED TO MOTORWAYS WITH ITS WIND PROTECTION, BUT ON A ROADS AND COUNTRY LANES THE GOLD STAR COMES IN TO ITS OWN. I HAVE THE BEST OF BIOTH WORLDS HAVING SOLD MY BMW 1250GS WITH NO REGRETS. A GOOD REVIEW, KEEP IT UP. THANKS.
Thanks for your thoughts and the video. I own one of these( 2023 chrome edition in red) and I love it. I had always ridden Japanese sports tourers and this was a game changer. I had ridden the W800 which was lovely but a little characterless in comparison. As a shorter rider the speedtwin 900 is very approachable, easy to ride and fun. As you point out the torque is addictive! My only nagging doubt is longterm reliability( I hope it is!) and that's because I grew up at a time when British bikes weren't reliable and this is the very first I've owned. When I test road it at the salesman's insistence I was very surprised and pleased and traded my GSX1000GT! Very happy so far but have struggled to find luggage here in OZ, the SW motech panniers look good. Cheers!
Thanks Steven for the comments. I test road the Suzuki 1000 GT and it liked it very much, it was probably too much on the sporty side for me as I am a plodder not a racer. Great value bike however. I think the theory is that the British built engine is the most reliable of the Triumphs so I imagine you're in good hands. 👍. Thanks again for the comment and good luck with your bike. Sean
That looks like the back road from Silves to Sao Marco Da Serra - stunning scenery but needs resurfacing and l also need a better suspension set up for that road to fully enjoy it! PS thought I saw you early on Friday afternoon riding up towards the Orange valley. Nice video.
Not sure there was any way the Triumph was going to win favour in this review. It is a modern bike with a somewhat classic style. But it’s not hard core classic. That’s what the T100 is for if you’re shopping Triumph. I don’t really buy into wanting less power, less refinement to get an “authentic” experience. I just want to ride and have the best experience possible. Nonetheless, appreciate the review and detailed thoughts. I’m sticking with my 2019 Street Twin for now. Absolutely love it.
Hi Steven, thanks for the comment. I guess horses for courses and I'll admit that I am a price sensitive consumer so that would come into play. Lovely bike though the Speed Twin!
I remember Triumph from back in the day, yes, i'm that old, when the Bonneville was a Bonneville and the Speed Twin was a Speed Twin. Is that now no longer the case..., as you seem to put the two names into one box on this video?
Of course this bike uses more petrol than your Beezer..., you were in the hills in 2nd and 3rd gear for longer stints, plus demostrating the torque to us, time and again!
If you want the looks and authenticity of days gone by, then the BSA is the bike, but if you need the looks, but also need performance as well, then the Triumph is the bike of choice.
The misconception of Triumph not being liked has probably to do with it's Price. In the end, everything boils down to money, for the majority of the normal hardworking men with families. In my circles, Triumph has a good reputation, and is actually the preferred Modern Retro, even though the number of REs sold outweigh the Triumphs. It is necessary to ask exactly the real reason why the Triumph is frowned upon, before lumping all haters into the same box.
The Triumph certainly has the performance. I'm referring to the Bonnieville engined 'family' of bikes which Triumph seems to catagorise together on the website at least, seems to be everything that doesnt have 3 cyclinders. I'm not sure why people are miffed at Triumph, I actually own one don't forget so I'm asking with a genuine enquiry in mind. I've heard complaints about the service received, and perhaps being a premium brand with a premium price point, they are held to a higher standard than the cheaper retro marques. They are a brand in ascension, perhaps a degree of complacency has crept in... I'll let the comments reveal all 😃. Cheers Steve.
You laugh with joy when you wind it on - what’s more to say!? If you can afford the extra, who wouldn’t?
Great video. I've always been attracted to the triumphs. In the end, went for an RE with 865 kit and I find that it's got plenty of torque and lighter in weight than the Triumph. For me it's a keeper after having done more than 10K on it now.
Now that is something I've always been intrigued by. I did have a saved Ebay search for Interceptor 865, I wouldn't do a conversion but as something to buy already done. The temptation is real. Glad you are enjoying the bike and thank you for sharing!
Thank you for your concise review. I love Triumphs, though there definitely exists an off-putting element to these bikes and it's the odd boutique-like dealership network that has evolved in the southwest United States. My local dealer charges $190 an hour for labor. The parts department does not maintain a very deep inventory on the basics; filters, washers, etc, but maybe it's me being overly critical. I ride an older Moto Guzzi which may explain my view that to own a new Triumph these days you need to be a lawyer or a dentist. Nothing against lawyers, dentists or Triumph, and more about how swallow my pockets are.
This comes from a 72 year old guy from the US who just decided to buy a T-100. I grew up in the hey day of english bikes. In high school all of these bikes you mention were part of the motorbike scene. But, even back then, I was drawn to the Triumph Bonneville. I could never afford one. I was very jealous of my friends who owned Bonnevilles. It just seemed to me that the Bonneville was a cut above the RE and the BSA etc. I did seriously consider the BSA and the RE etc. But, in the end, the choice was clear for me. I do not want to go to my death bed never having owned a Bonneville. The others? Not so much. I am very happy with my choice, including the T100 over the T120. Although, those new 400 cc Triumphs look pretty nice. Might even be better than the 900cc for a guy my age. Hmmm.
As to the Speed Twin 900, I think many see it as a less expensive (compared to T100, 120) platform for modifications, including more comfortable seats. Of course, I just ordered an upgraded seat for my T-100. I have not heard any bad things about the Speed and Street Twins.
Thank you for this comment. I agree generally life is too short not to buy the bike you want. I made this mistake and waited an extra summer before getting the BSA. In hindsight I should have just paid the extra and had fun...
Loved my Interceptor, and still I think they're fantastic bikes. However, as soon as I swung a leg over a T120 the difference in quality and comfort was undeniable. I think BSA and RE inspire a kind of underdog feeling, which we English people in particular love. Their more basic offerings are probably easier to Romanticise, whereas Triumph are viewed as a bit more up-market or posh.
If West Ham play Man Utd, and you don't support either club, who do you want to win?
I think you've hit the nail on the head. Good comments.
As a Spurs supporter, Man Utd.. for a bike, the feel.
I agree Ben, people love to root for an underdog, that's a great comment and no-one else has mentioned that!
I had the seat raised and padded with foam and silicon by an auto-upholstery firm (@£120) using the stock cover. That has raised the seat by an inch (25mm) to the same height as a T120/T100, giving more comfort for rider and pillion. I’ve got a fender extender and radiator guard on order too. Other items I bought are a centre stand and heater grips. Also you can fit a removable top-box which is handy, offering pillion support too.
Thank you Pete for the comment. All your modifications seem like very usable common sense upgrades that will enhance the experience of owning the bike significantly.
I have an 18 old Speedmaster magnificent, a Rocket 3 TFC and a 1200 Tiger (oh and a V8 Jag). Love them all but the Rocket is like nothing else on the planet.
I like the look of the BSA but it lacks refinement, engine performance and build quality.
Enfield’s are getting better.
Competition in this sector can only be a good thing for those of us that like modern classics.
Try the Bonnie 865 T100, Very authentic experience and quality is super, I have 2015 model for past 2 Years and has been super, big benefit is the simplicity to service yourself and very easy to look after, I agree with the comment on the Triumphs keeping their value, basically the bike value is still the same as when I bought it. Not sure many other brands could hold their value as well
Enjoying the channel
Thanks a lot John. My dad, also called John with the 'h' has a T bird 900 that I am down to ride when I get a moment. That is also a nice over engineered bike. The 865 I haven't ridden however...
You are right it does encourage you to ride faster despite all good intentions. Great looking panniers.
Yes the R&G and SWMotech stuff is lovely. I'd consider buying it and paying the premium having seen it up close now. Thanks!
The torque on these 900 is really addictive and the fact that its available at just 3000rpm makes it very easy to ride even for relatively new riders. I fitted mine with Pirelli STR'S ( the Pirelli phantom are absolutely trash ) and I can also go on very light green laning without problems, I also changed the seat with a T100 one which add an extra 1 inch of padding and makes its more comfortable. And although the centre of gravity is extremely low I wish it had 20kg less, the only motorcycle That would tempt me to sell my street twin right one is a Ducati Scrambler 800.
I agree with you those Phantoms are awful, I can't work out if they are a special batch provided to OE manufacturers OR if you were to order the Phantoms from a garage and have them fitted they would also be gripless?
@@MindfulMotorcyclist No I would definitely not go for the Phantoms again, they were just awful. Now to be fully honest and Fair I bought my 2016 Street Twin second hand with just 700km in 2023, Maybe the rubber just go wasted by time I really don't know, but I remember I was struggling a bit during a Turn or by simply turning around a roundabout. I wasn't new to motorcycle riding but It was about 4yrs since I rode a 200+kg machine, I tought maybe It was just me still getting the hang of it or it's because the front wheel is an 18inch instead of the usual 17 but I remember also that sometimes they didn't felt very confidence inspiring in a turn as if I was going to loose grip in a moment. When I changed to the pirelli scorpion STR'S it was like Night and day difference, the front now drops in with just little pressure on the bars when counter steering, the turns felt so Natural and more effortless, the Phantoms in comparison were like I was running on a flat or low pressure tires. If I would change tires again I may consider the MT60's RS or the Trial 2.
Many thanks for the detailed review that I can fully agree on. I now own a Speed Twin 900 (actually in the same colour) and have sold my Royal Interceptor 650 for it. For me, the bikes are worlds apart. What really bothered me about the RE were the footrests. I am 1.80m tall and the footrests were exactly where you put your foot down. In addition, the footrests also stuck out very far. A second point that really annoyed me about the RE was the relatively wide seat. If you sit a lot for work, are over 40 and your lumbar spine is not quite as flexible (despite regular exercise and low weight), I noticed my lower back after more than 30 minutes. I love, and I can't say this often enough, even though anatomies are very different and this certainly doesn't apply to everyone, the narrow crotch arch on the ST900. Then, the lack of a gear indicator on the RE bothered me, as did the gears. It felt, sorry to say, cheap: The shift and brake levers had a little play, the gears were so buttery smooth (in a negative sense) that I felt like I was switching in a mash (I love the crisp, tight shifting of the ST900) and neutral was almost impossible to find. At first I thought this was only the case on mine, but I've ridden several and it seems international. Then the fuel gauge on the RE is imprecise and shows empty faaar too early). The indicator switch on the RE felt cheap (although Triumph could do better here), which was really annoying: The indicator light was so weak that I overlooked it when I forgot to turn it off. Especially in the sunlight this was a problem. On the Triumph, on the other hand, it's so bright that you can't miss it during the daylight and it doesn't dazzle at night. What is really impressive about the ST900 is the torque, which is already fully available at around 3,500 (!) revs! Pure fun! The RE looks great at first glance, but the average quality of the parts became apparent after just two years in the carport. However, in this regard I still lack the experience with the ST900 to make a comparison. To summarise: The extra cost of the Triumph is worth every cent, and: I am glad that I no longer have the RE. After a few thousand kilometres and two years of ownership, I can only say, contrary to all the hyped reviews on the Internet: The Interceptor 650 is not a good motorbike, for me even quite the contrary!
I really appreciate your comments here. The perspective of someone who's had both and considered many of the details is very valuable. Thanks for sharing! Sean
Great video something i might consider had the goldstar three months love it but the local dealer here in northern ireland has given it up after a year so not looking good for backup on four year warranty
Ah sorry to hear that Gary. I know MW motorcycles gave up BSA and two others are 'quiet quitting' the brand, perhaps more will drop them going forward. They just don't look after dealers which is sad really. Lets hope they bring in a new partner close to you, NI isn't huge so maybe another one will be nearer you! Cheers, Sean
As if by magic news from BSA yesterday:
🚨NEW DEALER ANNOUNCEMENT🚨
We're delighted to welcome a new Dealership to the growing BSA Motorcycles UK Network - Evolution Motor Works!
Located in the picturesque area of Lurgan, Northern Ireland, Evolution Motor Works represents our next step in expanding the network.… See more
Great review!
Guy in my work building had a bigTriumph. When I parked next to him, come knock off I’d find he moved my bike away from his. I tried to talk to him about it, asking him how he would feel if I did that to his bike. His response was good luck with that. Later he accused me of stealing from his top box.🙄
I’ve had a jaundice view to triumph owners and Triumphs ever since.
That is very weird, generally the unspoken rule is you don't touch another mans motorcycle without asking...
You need to try a upto date T120 for the ultimate retro ride imho.
The 1200 HT is a different beast of an engine. Also the T100 or 120 are a much more classy look and finish to a speed twin.
I would love to try a T120. Probably would be addicted to the Torque and it would make all other retros feel a bit flat 😂
Its so hard trying to judge a twin against a single, they are just two different animals. I've had previously two Bonnerville's and their obviously a very sophisticated piece of kit miles different to the GoldStar. This is reflected in the price with the T100 even more expensive again, you pays your money.
Another great video but I can’t see how you can compare the BSA Gold star single to the Triumph speed twin if BSA made a version of the BSA Rocket Gold Star which was a parallel twin it would make a better comparison.
On a final note Both BSA and Royal Enfield need to improve on the welding
The thing I get out of bed for is to make Mrs Boulder a cup of tea..... Nonetheless, I am not a triumph fan-boy, but I have to admit my brother's 2007 Rocket3 is truly incredible. Apart from that none of the current range appeals...
Hi Sean, thanks for your review. I own the exact bike with the exact same colour scheme purchased Nov last year.
Agree with virtually everything you say about the bike. It’s my first bike after passing my test last year (age 63) and hits the mark for me with the exception of maybe the seat being a little firm and maybe slightly small/cramped as I am 6ft but everything else is great.
Agree with previous comments that the T100/120 may suit your styling requirements more as this Speed Twin is more of a compromise between retro and modern imo.
This is the great thing about bikes - everyone has a different opinion and everyone’s opinion is valid!
Keep up the great work!! Really enjoy your channel, well done and thanks.
Webbo
Street twin is definitely the least classic of the bonnevilles. I think your summary nailed it.
Went to a dgr over weekend on my t120. Whilst for all intents and purposes it is a much better bike than most I found myself hankering after “lesser” bikes. There was a 500 trials which looked particularly nice. Worth noting I still haven’t seen a bsa out in the wild. The rareness is a factor as few have them whilst at the weekend there were many triumphs.
All that being said the thrill of the t120 when you squirt the throttle is a joy.
Thanks Tim for this comment, I'm just getting around to replying to these sorry. While the T120 is probably best in class if we are honest, I am with you on hankering for smaller do more with less bikes. It's weird but I like less power and capacity!
Heroes. You get what you pay for. Better quality all round plus longevity and resale value. And that torque.
Definitely true about resale value...
Just get the triumph branded bench seat…flattens and raises the height to aid on the seat to peg ratio….as a 6 footer I have one for my ‘19 Street Twin and it helps enormously
That's good to know. I'm 6ft and the 765mm seat height is the only thing putting me off. Do you happen to know how much higher the bench seat is and does it slope towards the tank so that you slide forward?
I owned a 2004 Bonneville (twice actually), but that’s been a long time ago. I remember it being a competent bike, and I had no issues with it. I seldom have a single bike, so I am satisfied with my Interceptor as a fair-weather cruiser. If I were to be limited to a single bike, I’d probably be more inclined to look at a Triumph. I think it boils down to finances to a large degree. If you want more, pay more. Just don’t buy on price and regret the purchase. To me, most modern bikes are like modern cars-lots of technology but no feeling of longevity or character. I suppose that’s what draws many to retro bikes. Triumph and Enfield have established their reputations, good or bad, while BSA has a little maturing to see how they will age.
I agree. Triumph and RE have also established their market segments. I expect they overlap less than everyone thinks. The typical purchaser for a T120 I expect would not go for an Interceptor unless for as you say financial reasons. The might go for something else in the Triumph range or a Guzzi etc... BSA need a few years stable selling and supporting the Goldstar with no alarms or dramas to allow it to find it's footing and establish a reputation...
As a previous owner all I can say it is a fantastic bike; front forks and rear shocks could be better quality though. Also front headlight is not up to the price. The Guzzi V7 is a great option aswell.
Never ridden a Guzzi to be fair. The V7 has a lot of appeal, that transverse twin just has a unique look and sound.
@@MindfulMotorcyclistbetween the St.Twin engine and the Guzzi one I think the Triumph would have and edge in terms of torque, however the two machines are comparable. The good thing about the Guzzi Is the shaft drive.
Try the Scrambler 900. The best of the 900's imo. I might be biased as I own one but would be interesting to hear your opinions if you get a chance of riding one. I tried the Street Twin 900 before purchasing the Scrambler and it's amazing the difference between the two models. I also at 6' also found the Street Twin too cramped. The Scrambler is so much more "roomy" and comfortable.Your channel is going from strength to strength, well done and keep them coming 👍👏
Great review, very mindfully put :) - .I think the extra HP / Torque in the 900 engine would turn me into a bit of a hoon...very content with a Classic 350 after owning an Interceptor which was suprisingly unsatisfying ....would love to try the BSA
Thank you Tom, very much appreciated. That's what happened to me, was using the 900cc engine as a point and squirt machine! Not riding as a classic. I loved my old 350 Meteor, bike just had such soul and character. Funnily enough I tried an interceptor prior to buying the BSA, just because it was a whole £2k cheaper and was in canyon red which I liked. Very unsatisfying, I wouldn't have be proud to own it but can't put my finger on exactly why...
@@MindfulMotorcyclist Yep I remember watching those vids of you re-trying the Interceptor - good to hear you're enjoying the BSA !
What’s in a name?
Would the new Triumph 400’s be selling like hot cakes if they were badged “Bajaj”? Would you have bought your BSA if they’d called it a “Mahindra”?
Everyone who owns/wants either of these, knows that they are made in India and we are completely ok with that, BUT, we do love the cosplay of feeling we are riding a British classic.
Lol...😂
To answer the question no I probably wouldn't have bought the bike without the BSA iconography. It does add value to the product as people perceive it to be better... that's the whole industry of branding and marketing right!?
Great to see a modern retro with mag wheels instead of spokes. My 1979 bonnie had mags back in the day. The mudguards are pathetic on modern bikes. At 6'2" I'd like to see the foot pegs pushed further forwards so your 😢legs are around 90 degrees, like most bikes had in the 60/70s. I seem to fit on old classic bikes, but feel cramped on modern bikes, purely down to the foot peg position.
Hi Frank, thank you for the comment. The BSA actually has a decent mudguard, it has other faults but to be fair the mudguard isnt one of them 🙂👍
You got a point. My view: people refer a 900cc motorcycle as a Baby Bonneville…
With a more low power, like BSA or Royal Enfields, you have limitations, but more fun.
Time to get of the race, and just enjoy.
By the way, I dont like the new Triumph color line up. Wants too much, not classic.
Thanks for this comment, apologies am just getting around to replying. Both RE and Triumph are experimenting with modern hues, I can't get behind it myself 😄👍
Very good comparison in every aspect 👍🏻 I agree with your decision - if I had to choose, I would also go for the BSA because of the real authenticity.
The downsize of the BSA is the resale value, procurement of spare parts and maybe the after sale service in general.
How can you say real authenticity when did bsa produce a watercoled 650 single
I love the look of the triumph, but the horror stories about customer service and gearbox issues just stop me buying , I’ve been riding for 30 years and the horror stories are from people I know who own them , and some from TH-cam , thanks for the video , keep your BSA . When we say bikes do things better it takes away from the character, the better quality and smoother they get the more the bike is doing for you , eventually becomes boring , you want a relationship with a bike and one you learn to ride 🏍️😎
Good comment thank you for that. I guess churches are a lovely example. An 800 year old church is cold, hard to maintain, energy using but it's got some extreme character. Modern churches and buildings are much better in every measure but they don't feel the same... thanks!
Bless you😂
Thanks! I couple be doing another take so the sneezing stayed 🤧 in 😂
Im not buying a new bike to get authentic retro experience ( rattling, vibrating etc) . Looking retro with a good quality ride is enough for me.
Don't buy my bike then 😂... very much like a classic sans oil leaks!
Absolutely stunning motorcycle but is it really worth nearly twice as much as the goldstar or the interceptor, i owned a carburetor version of the 900 scrambler, loved it at the time but i don't feel it was as nice to ride as my interceptor, I've yet to try the bsa but would love to own the black one aswell as the interceptor, great review Sean 🙂👍🇬🇧🏍
My sentiment exactly. It's lovely but the BSA and Inty are 80% of the same motorcycle experience but a lot cheaper. Still for some they will value the best of the best as it were and that's fine too. Thank you for the comment 😊
I've owned a 955i Daytona which was amazing. I tested one of the 750+ cc T100s next to a 1st generation Guzzi V7. The Guzzi was so much better and more nimble than the ponderous T100 Bonnie. I later road an 865 Bonneville SE which was light yesrs better than the T100. Ive never bothered with the larger capacity Bonnevilles..I don't see the point. The beauty of the original 650 Bonnies was they were light, agile and sporty. The 1200 Bonnevilles are sporty but are overpriced ( Bloor isn't passing on the lower production costs he sees by manufacturing everything in Thailand,) and lardy. I see the aesthetic appeal but I'd go for a Guzzi or Royal Enfield or even a Kawasaki W800 over any Bonneville. I'd probably go for a V7 as I love V twins but as I own a carburetted Guzzi Le Mans 1000 it would take a lot to get me even on a V7.
I liked your comment about the manufactured experience, I think that's a great thought. I used to own an air cooled Thruxton 865 and I loved that bike, but I sold it last year thinking I wanted something more modern, up to date and refined. Turns out that's not what I wanted and I miss my air cooled Thruxton! I test rode a Continental GT a few weeks ago and it brought an instant smile to my face and reminded me of my old Thruxton. I've also test ridden the T120s and I find them to be exactly how you've described them...brilliant and fun and so well finished, but kind of too refined and smooth. I would say the last generation of Triumph Bonnevilles with the air cooled 865 engine is a far more authentic experience than the current range of liquid cooled models. Very comparable to the Enfield Twins, so if you're happy to try another Triumph, I would definitely suggest jumping on a Thruxton or T100 made between 2001 and 2015. I think you'll enjoy them far more than the liquid cooled variants. I say the T100 or Thruxton as they both have twin clocks. The standard Bonneville only had a single clock. Hope you find this useful!
Thanks Sean Sean, great name and I guess born in the same decade as me 😄😄 1892=1982?. I am due to ride my Dad's Tbird 900. That is going to be interesting. They are reportedly overengineered and it's made well before I was old enough to ride. Thanks again for the comment!! Regards, Sean
Eh up Sean I was wondering where youde gone but I had to re subscribe and loads of other channels the same of a period!
Yes can’t go wrong with the triumph there quality yes better than the BSA obviously more money but there’s a quality difference and the Torque is addictive 100% 💯
Great scenery and hope you’re doing well you and Suzie
Phil Green
Thanks Phil nice comment to receive, much appreciated. How's the GoPro12 testing going? sound and video all working well on that system?
@@MindfulMotorcyclist
Hi Sean
The Go Pro 12 is absolutely brilliant
I have no issues with it so far I think a lot of the earlier problems have been ironed out😊
Tho my insta 360 one X2 is faulty the picture keeps bouncing about and I’ve looked at everything to solve it apart from changing lenses too much trouble to send it back tbh.
With the weather here it’s been difficult to get out properly looks like your having a great time there looks beautiful 😍
Try a T120 bonneville if you can Dude, 2WW is right about the torque, it'll definitely make you smile
That green is so pretty.
Grab a scrambler 1200 and throw it in sport mode. I have a '23 XC and it is the best and only bike I've ever owned.
Green is a perfect colour for a British bike or car. Aston martin, Lotus, jag etc... just perfect!
Horses for courses and all that. But, the Speed Twins (400cc, 900cc, 1200cc) ate modern bikes? The Bonneville T100 is closer to the BSA & simply a more considered comparison. The current Moto Guzzi V7 in all of its guises, might be a good check bike as well. Aficionados of the BSAs, Nortons, RE brand seem to enjoy that relaxed Guzzi!
Whats it got above the competition.....just having that Triumph Badge on the tank basically......and all that goes with the triumph brand....its history ect......and the superb quality.
Saying that....great to see BSA and Royal Enfield up there and doing so well....they all look great.
I am a 2020 T100 owner...does everything for me....Street Twin looks to modern.....perfectly happy to pay the extra over the competition.
You mention the Triumph switch gear.....I don't like the bright colors on them....to modern looking.....one of the ist things I did on getting my T100 was to black out the buttons....got to add....my bonnie is not a black bonnie.....its full chrome.....as a 60s bonnie would be....spokes rims silencer....just dont get this black bike stuff???
Made several more mods to get my bike even more old school.
I agree the BSA front mudguard....much better.....I extended to front mudguard on my T100....a DIY job.....looks good to me.
My T100 average's 88mpg on a ride on open A roads 50 55mph...I like the paintwork on the T120 and the carb/throttle bodies.....but not worth £3K extra over my T100...IMHO....try a T100 I think it will please you more than this Speed Twin....I think we have similar tastes.
You have great riding roads over there.
Great video....enjoyed it you have a very relaxed style Sir.
Take a look at my mods...th-cam.com/video/EhG9zZd1DrY/w-d-xo.html
Thank you Nick for this comment, appreciate it and sorry just getting around to reply. T100 would be my choice over Speed Twin, I also prefer the old skool looks... Sean
My take ..You test rode the wrong bike 😊 All your minor complaints ( clocks seat etc) would be answered by the T100 ... the obvious comparison to the BSA or Interceptor.
The Triumph may be 50% more than those bikes but it's 50% better in every respect ...You get what you pay for despite what the Triumph haters try to have us believe 😊
Thanks WFB. If the T100 was available I would have taken that fit sure. I don't personally think it's 50% better but that's because the areas it's better in are not important to me so it's a personal preference yes. Thanks
I know it's not essential these days BUT for £9k I would want twin clocks, one of which a proper rev counter. I'm old fashioned, but that extra clock used to be the difference between low end, low power machines and "proper" motorcycles. There are modern Triumphs out there with twin clocks. This should be one of them. Oh, and with a proper raised Triumph petrol tank badge, not just a splash of paint with Tr written into it.
Thanks for the comment. I suspect that the Speed Twin is a slightly cheaper and more modern version relative to the T100 which I think has the clocks and the badge as you describe. At least this is my understanding from reading the comments here. Cheers, Sean
Try a W 800 next.
I was thinking the same, their is brand snobbery otherwise there would be many more reviews of the W800.
I thought that you did a great job with this video Sean. Keep telling it like it is. I like the way that you tell it from the heart. Personally I think that bike looks really good. The color is my favorite. If I were to buy a Triumph , I would probably go with the T 100 or the T 120. However being @ almost 73 y.y., & already having 5 motorcycles, I have enough to last to my final days. Have a great day! Cheers!! Illinois, USA
Thank you Larry for this kind comment. Very much appreciated. Green is my favourite colour on cars and bikes especially British marques 😀
I had a Triumph Street Scrambler 900 2022 version for a couple of years. I enjoyed it, but there were 2 limitations for me: 1 - the size. At 6'1" I found it just a little cramped. Not painfully so, but after a couple of hours riding I'd feel it in my knees and hips.
2 - Fuel tank range. Even though the economy for a 900cc bike was incredible, the 250km range was just annoying for me.
So, I chopped it in for a Triumph Tiger 850 Sport, which is a completely different bike. This resolved the sitting triangle and fuel tank range issues for me, but I do miss the lazy, torque driven riding style of the Scrambler. I now seem to be changing gear twice as often than when I was on the Scrambler.
It's horses for courses though, and I think that, overall, the Tiger is the better bike for my current riding.
Thanks Bob, the Tiger 850 and 900 bikes are very strong sellers according the the Triumph dealer I spoke to. Very highly regarded by all accounts. Glad you got one that suits you so well. Cheers, Sean
You ought to try the 1200! The torque is unreal!
Yes I did enjoy that, thanks for asking 😊 The Speed Twin 900 was my wish list hero for a while, but I've lowered my sights since. I'm not sure why they produce a 900 and 1200, surely a more noticeable engine size gap (and therefore price) would be sensible. A 650 twin instead of the 900 and at least a £2k price drop 😅 Pity also the 900 only got the single dial whereas the 1200 gets a more traditional twin dial and I wonder if you'd just get used to the different seat . For a moment I thought it had won you over, that HT engine, but after the novelty of it has worn off, you'd use it sparingly I suspect. I'd certainly swap out those indicators though 😮 Great video 😎
Enjoyed your review. Did you hire it from the Triumph dealer on the N125?
Hello David, I borrowed the Speed 400 from the Triumph main dealer after telling them about the channel etc. Lovely chap to be fair he did offer to let me take out the Speed Twin but (its a big but) I think 45 mins is too short to get a grip of how it rides and it's a little fake pretending you are interested to buy a Speed Twin 900. Renting of course cost more but I feel its more honest and you can get a better perspective. I rented from Soulful Bikes in Faro, great company to be fair, no complaints from me!
@@MindfulMotorcyclist Thanks for that. We have a property on the Algarve and I was thinking of renting a bike there this year. I ride a Yamaha XSR900 and a BSA Gold Star 650 in the UK. It was your review of the GS that drove me to test ride the bike and then buy one!!!
Gosh, you didn't listen to me did you? 😂 Well I hope it work out well for you, I do love my bike to be fair. I've ridden the XSR700 not the 900, I guess you have no need to go fast on the Goldstar then when you have the mighty CP3 also in the garage! When we come back to the Algarve we will aim to be out west towards Lagos I expect! I look forward to meeting up with locals and yourself if you are there. Cheers, Sean
@@MindfulMotorcyclist Thanks Sean. Yes I did listen to you!! I love both bike - very different but the 'go to' bike at the moment is the BSA!
Me too, just so easy to jump on and ride. I also like to look at it as well. All things considered it's a great bike for me.
I am very confused why you would choose the Speed Twin to do a comparison with the BSA or Interceptor. The Speed Twin is designed to be more sporty and more modern. The T100 would be a much more appropriate comparison especially where the ergonomics are concerned. I really think you should try a T100, I think it would be much more to your taste.
Quite a simple reason, they had them at the rental place. I would like to choose a t100 to get a feel for that too. Thanks 😊
@@MindfulMotorcyclist haha fair enough, I think the T100 will give you a much more retro vibe and you'll get the beautiful Bonneville guages and nicer switch gear and paint. I absolutely love my T120 the torque on the 1200 is just biblical.
have a moded 21,t100 great long team keeper cruiser one drawback of bonnies is wind buffering thw worst bike of all bikes, seat is hard, good power but doesn't give the thrills as a lightweight bike so purchased a second bike to cover addition because could not find a bike to give both type of riding opted for🎉 a mv agusta butale 800 wow,got the perfect combination ,72 years old owned 50 bikes 16:28
Have a look at the Triumph T100
If one is available I think I'll have a look at it. Perhaps t100 I'll see at the ABR festival end of this month! Regards, Sean
Try and older air-cooled Bonneville...different from the newer ones in feels...but with good torque and decent power
Thanks AC865, you must of had a RE in the past with that name!
@@MindfulMotorcyclist...er...
865 Bonneville 2000-2016?
Yep, I really don't know my triumphs, inline 4s yes everything else no 😂
I had a street twin. Nice but it was really uncomfortable for me at 6ft4 and sold it after 4weeks. Expensive mistake. I was a little worried the bsa may be same but it's very comfortable. Triumph nicely finished and obviously quicker. For me though definitely not worth the extra price. Maybe t100 or scrambler some day. I tried the scrambler 900. Was nice. But local dealer lost a sale to me due to refusing to give me a price on my trade in unless I said I was definitely buying the triumph that day! Also charge £30 for a rest ride. But Don.t worry you get it back if you buy it. 🤔😱 when I said how do I know if you Don.t give me a price. Not the way it works he said. Well I.m sorry but I.m the man with the money. Like they were doing me a favour by allowing me to buy a triumph 😡
It's exactly that kind of attitude that puts people off the brand. My local one is friendly ish but not encouraging at all of test rides (one of the reasons I've not been out on one) and I think I must look not like thier typical heeled customer as they don't seem to pay me much attention when i walk in there. Glad you are enjoying the BSA. It's certainly a stretch to the bars for me so being taller you must find the room an advantage! Thanks, Sean
@@MindfulMotorcyclist Gold star having re map on Saturday which I hope will sort the occasional engine cut out. Be perfect then.
Maybe the speed twin is the wrong comparison to the Interceptor or the Gold Star? I do like the billet handlebar brace and other twiddly bits but don’t like single clocks. Definitely not an alloy wheel fan on British bikes. I personally don’t want clinical, it’s modern classic verses modern retro. One says ride me as I am and one says tweak me and make me your own.
I really enjoyed that, Sean. An excellent practical review. It sounds like a really fun machine. I get what you mean about not taking it over the BSA. Extra power is nice, but there’s a lot to be said for the better gas milage the smaller displacement bikes like the Enfield's and BSA get. By the way, I think you have to pay Willie £5 in royalties every time you say “the torque is addictive.” 🤣
Hahaha Mark, I spoke to Willie on the phone and he's exactly like he is on the channel. I said to him the torque is addictive 🤣🤣. He's actually looking at a bike with way less torque! Regarding the BSA I'm by my own admission price sensitive so I'd stick with the BSA as it's £4.5k secondhand now. Very hard to beat that. Thanks 😊
Why hold in a sneeze?
Great comment 😂. I actually don't know, weird habit I suppose...
I have a 94 Sprint 900 and an 07 America. Both made in Hinkley, giving jobs to Brits. They moved production to the Far East and can't understand how people can consider Triumph British now? At least the BSA and Enfield are honest about being Indian and come at a subsequent value price. My British made Triumphs were far more competitively priced back in the day.
You asked 😄
Still designed in Britain by British owned company headed by a Brit. So Harleys are Mexi-Chinese now? Ducatis Thai? Your xenophobia is overtaking logic. Cheaper labour makes them more affordable.
I don't mind the comments from the Judge, I asked and it's still a valid opinion. I don't think he said anything nasty or inappropriate in his comment.
Fingers x Royal Enf classic 650 will be good! Friend just got a cheapish cruiser and love how it sounds.
Thanks Maurice. Yes it should be lovely, at least the thing will look stunning with that classic 350 headlight mount. It might just be the bike many RE fans have waited for...
Triumph is zero on my list, any of their cheap shiny sheit. Had one and Triumph gave me all reasons to not buy a Trinkley any time again in my life. Regardless how shiny they look. I know what’s behind, I’m done with them.
Get a W800, done. Or a BSA 650 if you want a 90s thumper.
a good review,
would i buy a modern triumph ?? NO ,too much tech on them , and poor spares back up so not a bike for long term ownership , also i think they are overpriced , use too much plastic and no longer built in Britain but annoyingly trade on the Heritage still , the early Hinckley Triumphs were much better , the new 400s look great but yet again too much tech for a bike of that price and size , and yes i have owned Triumphs including the old Meriden bikes
i’m not a fan of triumph modern retro bikes for a few reasons.
1. 270 degree crank as nothing to do with the 360 degree crank of the ordinal.
2. made in thailand, yet puts british flags all over.
3. too many electronics
4. fake air vents, fake carb injector covers and other fake stuff of the bike.
5. not air cooled like the original
if you want a classic triumph buy a W800
For me only #3 & 5 are valid.
Fair play Matthew, I suspected some of the above would be mentioned in the comments... Thanks!