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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- Hundreds of thousands of Muslims fought for Britain in World War I and II, but today the British military is struggling to recruit them. Why don't British Muslims want to serve?
They're sometimes called the forgotten soldiers. Muslims were among millions from Britain's colonies who fought for the empire. But some believe their contributions are not recognised and rarely shared as part of history. Has the past created a legacy of resentment towards the British military?
At the Roundtable was former British army soldier, Jo Glenton. Executive Director of The Muslim Experience in World War One, Hayyan Ayaz Bhaba; Former British army officer, Afzal Amin; And Arzu Merali, co-founder of the Islamic Human Rights Commission.
Roundtable is a discussion programme with an edge. Broadcast out of London and presented by David Foster, it's about bringing people to the table, listening to every opinion, and analysing every point of view. From fierce debate to reflective thinking, Roundtable discussions offer a different perspective on the issues that matter to you. Watch it every weekday at 15:30 GMT on TRT World.
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I mean as a British Muslim, why would you want to participate in wars against humanity 🤷🏻♀️
islam is in a war against humanity.
No it's not @@terrenceroll3848
because we are looked at as the enemy
@L C nah son their accusations are baseless, they got to apologise first, you can't impose double standards on us here
L C True. I agree with you there, but first of all, we’d only end up scarring Islam’s name. Secondly, innocent Muslims would be blamed for something that we have caused (if we screw up).
@@friendlyneighbourhoodbushm1904 they follow the koran idiot Say to those who disbelieve: You shall be vanquished, and driven together to hell; and evil is in the resting place. - Koran, Surah III: 12, "The Family of Imran."
Sounds like war to me...
That's a cop out
Or you look at us as the enemy.
I'm a Muslim and I serve in the the British army (infantry) and I'm proud to serve my queen and country.
God Save Queen and Country!
But are you from commonwealth or were raised in the UK? I think you come from commonwealth and should not even be in the UK that politicins have allowed. Did you go over what we went through when growing up?No. YOU WERE GROWN IN COMMONWEALTH AND NOT IN UK SO YOU HAVE GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH UK.
@@poundlandspeedwagonrequiem A Muslim can ever say god save the queen
@@fahadmalik8862 does it say in the quran "muslims must not say God save the Queen"???
@@jameslightningappleby Why should god only save one person above all the else. Lol can you simply put them above all else. You may say. Please save etc. Please grant me good health etc.
I am British. I'm born and raised in this country. And what those kind of people are doing is rly horrible. And I want to defend and serve my country to defeat terrioests. So to be fair I think there should be no reason why I shouldn't be able to join the army.
Whats the point of army when there is no war out there. How stupid a country like uk has become that prefers and recruits stupid people from commomwealth which should go back to their country and can not keep its own muslim citizens that go and fight for others. That is a failed nation. Why cant uk stop the racism and have the brexit and just close its borders to everyone even tourists for some long time and gets its control back
@TMA listen carefully to what afzal amin is saying about muslims who have gone to fight for other countries because they dont feel belonged in the uk. Not that I am against or with them but nationality must come first rather than religion. The homegrown people have had millioms of pounds invested upon them from their young life onwards. Why do you think british soldeirs go fight for others?
@@AJ-ut7rr AJ - Nationality does come first but people like you say need to be told and educated to that . However go watch an England game in the East End you will see White Black Asian kids all sporting England tops - my favourite restaurant had a huge St Georges flag on the wall. This is about militarism - go and speak to the enlisted men who have left and been screwed or their mental health social workers. The Army's pool was always poor working class kids from Northern Welsh and Scottish towns. The military refused to ID PTSD after the Falklands even when the US spotted it decades earlier given the amounts of suicides amongst returned Vietnam Veterans doubled that of combat deaths. Left behind financially - even my brothers mate, a Major in the RM earns less than a basic professional City worker. This goes much deeper its a recruitment problem because parents are no longer seeing the military as what it was and they are trawling and looking at making the Army more 'inclusive' - issue is not so much the Navy and RAF given their greater bias towards technical disciplines but the Army is and always will be a different beast and has to be given the ultra ugly nature of ground warfare . Look at WW1 and how many poor kids were shot for desertion and cowardice by the Army even when they were shell shocked or underage and all round terrified. Then compare with the German statistics. We have always treated the Tommy with contempt as the poem by Kipling succinctly described. People complain about behaviour in Army towns etc. The security guard at a certain bank I worked for was the father of the Scottish kid who left his post, captured and killed in Afghanistan/Iraq (sorry I cannot remember which theatre) , my mate taught a kid in South London who went into the Army and killed in Iraq. The parents said they would have done anything to get them back. Make the Army a proper career , pay people better , look after them and people will join. My mates uncle was an Asian Lieutenant Colonel in the RAMC at the time, but its a world away from the drink fuelled thuggery you saw in the enlisted circles. Go look at the Officer corp - you will get people joining of the right mindset but the enlisted ranks are not that nice a life for any kid. Why are so few middle class kids joining the enlisted from down South - says it all. No one is complaining about them. Working class kids of all walks of life are waking up that the Army is not about skiing , diving , football like the adverts (and Capita too given £500m GBP on a failed recruitment campaign) but being sent often with crap kit to fight open ended illegal wars. The US even introduced 'stop loss' again to prevent people leaving at the end of their enlistment and not since Vietnam did you see people start to flee to Canada - albeit in small numbers. Look at 1990 Irag - Britain fought alongside a coalition of Saudis, Free Kuwaiti, Syrians, Qatari's, Omani's, Egyptian, Bangladeshis, etc after Saddam Hussein , like Bin Laden were no longer 'our men on the ground' and threw off their shackles. No widespread discussion on this topic back then, when the military was much bigger and the % much lower but then we also never had 9/11. The enlisted Army is no longer an attractive career or great workplace or payer when two wars are on and the legacy it left behind. Thats why they are trying to so hard with this. You do not see drives to recruit Muslim men and women (or anyone for that matter) to apply and work their guts out to get into 5-6 years of medical training and paying tens of £00's to do so in order to be doctors to serve in our NHS or Police forces and serve all the peoples of this country, or engineers, scientists etc. Think about this ..
I am a Muslim and I cant wait for me to be old enough to join
Same
You can’t be Muslim and fight for non-Muslim causes. Especially when those non-Muslims are fighting against Islam. But I don’t need to tell you that. You already know. I don’t need to explain what will happen to you on the Day Of Judgement if you join the Kuffr army just as I don’t need to explain that the sun exists. It’s as clear as day.
@Itz Facts That’s not true. Read the Quran. “Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the cause of ṭāghūt.” (Quran 4:76)
It’s not just about fighting against Muslims. It’s also about what/who you’re fighting for. The non-Muslims do not fight for the cause of Allah (which is Tawheed aka so that Allah’s word/command becomes the highest). They fight for unbelief, disobedience to Allah, obedience to the Shaytaan, polytheism, blasphemy, paganism, etc. So whoever joins their ranks has joined the fight against Allah and His religion.
See Sunan an-Nasa'i 3136 in-book reference: Book 25, Hadith 52, English translation: Vol. 1, Book 25, Hadith 3138.
Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari said:
"A Bedouin came to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) and said: 'A man fights for fame, or he fights for the spoils of war, or he fights to show off. Who is the one who is fighting in the cause of Allah?' He said: 'The one who fights so that the word of Allah will be supreme is the one who is fighting in the cause of Allah, the Mighty and Sublime.'"
Me as well
@Itz Facts exatly killlng innocent people in England and France is evil and haharm
Me being from 🇵🇰 & in an army college on my way to 1st rifles regiment 🇬🇧🙏🏼
Are you a religious Muslim?
Go Pray Don't Delay went mosque for about 7 years daily, read the Quran, but I’m not too religious I do know the basics and am not the best Muslim but I try
I'm 14 any tips how to join
Meme Prankz don’t do weights and hit the pavement stamina > muscle mass, especially with the new bleep test that’s in the AC
@@az3378 thanks
I think its not only an issue in Britain, but its an issue around the world in terms of military recruitment. A bit of "racism" and stereotypes still run in the military recruitment process, especially those voluntarily armed forces. Countries tend to recruit the so called "natives" or majority ethnic group in their military. For example in some countries like Malaysia, there is a specific regiment which only allows ethnic Malays in that regiment, and also in Indonesia ethnic chinese are usually neglected for recruitment in the military, although some are recruited (to camouflage the actual recruiting process), but this is a normal thing if it comes to recruitment based on ethnicity. But religion shouldnt be a problem.
Yes you are right
Really good point
If this country was threatened by Russia I would expect British Muslims to defend the country. But I don't expect them to join up to fight against other Muslims in the Middle East where only our interests are threatened , not our country. In WW2 you wouldn't have expected British Italians to join up to fight Mussolini.
Tbh they won't fight Russia nor would the Sikhs cause Russia and India are close allies
@@Waldo-mn9iq not all muslims are indians only 8-9% are
Fantastic point, youve given the game away there pal...
So in you statement you've just said that ISIS terrorists and other terrorists networks around the middle east ARE Indeed muslims and the very reason why muslims in this country won't call them out and/or fight them is because of their alliance towards them, "Muslim brotherhood" hey 😉.
We knew it all along but its great to hear from the horses mouth.
Complete edit of your original post. Nice job melt.
@@ABNJIM10 So what you're trying to say is Islam is false?
I would want to join the army but.
Why would I want to put my life at risk for racist organisations like the Edl or bnp who want to ban Islam in the uk
Ali hussain Good don't join lol
In their hearts is disease, so Allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment [from Allah] because they [habitually] used to lie. [2:10]
So your calling the entire nation of Britain racist
Why should we show gratitude to a country we love but hates us? We have a right to fight for Queen and country. yet at the same time the people of Britain are turning against us and declaring us terrorists! Even Islam says to fight for your homeland and defend your home by participating in conscription regardless of which country you are in and what their ideology is!
Good day
@Michael King That doesn't change motives. Religion and motives are two separate identities and if people are generalizing both of the, it is a guaranteed conflict.
And why do you want to fight for a non-islamic cause? The British Army is fighting the Taliban and other groups attempting to establish Islam so why would you want to go and fight against the soldiers of Allah?
Well said
That's why it's difficult to recruit them
indeed; ideologically, who is closer to mohammed? a taliban warrior or fake westernized muslim?
You was a officer and i was a soilder lmao i felt that lol
Most British Muslims are Muslims first and British second .... too many British foreign policy goals conflict with Islamism. Islam before country for most Muslims.
Because many of them see us as the enemy even though they may not be openly vocal about it.
400 thousand British Muslims fought for Britain in WW2, 62 thousand Muslims lost their life for this country, more than any other religion other than Christianity. Is this really the respect you show?
Nightattackguy 💯💯💯
Quite the opposite to be honest
@@nightattackguy7716 400 thosuound compared to the 22 MILLION Christians is like a drop in a ocean
They love living the free life.
No it's haram for us Muslims to join non muslim armies since they don't fight for Islam
Ur probably not in the military
@@zay_kash since when does the british army fight for religion in 2021?
@@zay_kash how
Plus 400.,000 Muslim soldiers from undivided India fought in WW1 and without them Britain would’ve been defeated oh and my own Muslim great grandad fought in ww1 and my mums dad and his brothers all served in the British Indian army until partition
Tell me how it’s not allowed when Muslims have been in the British army for years
@@zay_kash It’s only haram if they are fighting against Muslims.
Great debate by the way.
im a british muslim and i want to join the S.A.S but i dont know if i can.
@Sahil Ali what do u mean? there men section only? I already asked a professional in the forces him self
@@alfarouqalderwish1336 thats a lie as a sas or any specials forces members can't tell of there profession even to their own family it has to be a secret. You been caught out pal
I didn't say it to my family i kept it a secret tho, Imma delete this comment as soon as possible.
@@Tazz-7375 They can tell ot to their family. It is possible to volunteer. But most SAS infamtrymen are hand picked.
@@alfarouqalderwish1336 Don't worry, you can join. Just remember you may perform haram actions. Joining the regular army is better.
For the same reason Paris Oct 2019 (4 dead police at the hands of a 20 year cop who had recently converted to islam) struggle to recruit.
Maybe it's because he was a Christian and a french before. who knows
@@electronial736 Yeh your right in your world. However in the real world; shouting: "ali snackbar", while he was killing specifically non!!! muslims gives a more realistic picture to the rest of humanity with open minds. 2+2=4
@@danieloliver9930 Christianity killed 10 times more
Learn your history
@@electronial736 Good you have accepted that when someone e.g. this murderer shouts ali snackbar while killing/gunning down specifically non muslims it's not because he was a Christian or French. 2+2+4 Stay on point; Does murder rate when people adopt islam increase? When you jump onto other historical events or discussions it does not make or give your original point validity. So stay on the subject matter at hand.
@@danieloliver9930 Read before it's too late
I pretty much see why Islam is the fastest growing religion and your youths are converting in the west to Islam from darkness.
Most muslims generally disapprove of current foreign policies. From a religious perspective, unjustified murder and wars are forbidden by God. To muslims service to God comes before service to man/the state.
"justified murder" is defined differently in islam though.
example: mohammed ordering innocent jews in medina to be executed is justified.
It is haram to kill innocents.
how can they be innocent if they're guilty of rejecting allah and mohammed? ;^)
I am a Muslim however I was born in England and I want to join the British army and I am a kid
if u want to join the millitary for britain and to sacrifice yourself protecting queen and innocents british i dont see any problem
@@kamadilsulaiman6165 thanks because people say it's not good serving Pakistan but I want to serve England and be proud
I can't stand you Muslims.
@@yxnglucci4801 Bro the guy wants to join the army and protect both the queen & the country, so whats the problem?
Mate if we didn't help you in both the world wars you would of lost so don't chat
Forgotten Hero
I am Irishman serving in the British Army.
Cool how's the job
@@yehiarizk1836 Not to bad, been in Ten Year. Anyone wanting to join any the Armed Forces ie: Army, Navy or Air Force as Regular or Reserve, look well into all different job roles and trades.
Cool I'm in Dubai from Egypt well good luck on the job bye :()
@Arthur james Fun fact, more Irish serving in British Armed Forces than Irish Defence Force. Plus would not let me in Irish Defence so went looking other places.
Cousin been in French Foreign Legion last two years.
Plus it's 2021, do what you want in your life.
Because I wouldn’t trust the slab of bacon next to me to save my life in time of need simples.
@L C I think he's an atheist
@L C worship a pedophile? please explain?
@L C wrong! they don't revere him as a deity as it would actually take them out of Islam hence they can't even make drawings or idols of him.Secondly, a pedophile is a person who has a primarily or exclusive sexual attraction to pre pubescent children.Most of the Prophet Muhammads wives were old women ( his first wife being 15 years his junior so around 40) and Aisha r.a the wife in question only went to live with him AFTER SHE REACHED PUBERTY.Her age is also up for contention (she was already engaged to another man before the prophet amongst other reasons).Please do your homework before you spread false information dude! Btw Islam is one of the only religions that actually sets conditions to marry I.e not only physically capable but to be psychologically mature too and with the permission of their guardian and not against their will.
@L C hence why I said the age of her marriage is disputed.
But like I said the actual marriage was only consummated when she reached an age of maturity and puberty so regardless of what agreements were made prior to it, if Aisha didn't agree post puberty then the marriage would be null. If she was forced and suffered trauma from such a marriage, it would have shown in her life and the memoirs she left behind of such abuse.
Your explanation is a non sequitur as muslims don't see Muhammad pbuh as a deity, so you must be talking about another religion.The revere 9show admiration for) him as a prophet nothing more!
Because we are in a Christian country.
see how u people ignoring the real fact the you are telling the no of muslim soldier from india but not talking about the hindu soldier which were 10 times of them where are our sikh kumaoun dogra mharata madras you forgot all of them come to india ill show u india gate
I wanted to join the navy but when I went to the interview 17 years ago they asked me to shave my beard I thought what next do I have to eat pork as well
I find this hard to believe, all religions are respected and catered for. Doesn’t matter your ethnicity, nationality, religion, age or sex the army has a strong stance on equality and diversity
Sorry I just noticed you said 17 year ago... the army has evolved and changed a lot in 17 years
I call BS on this story
@@ULTRAJSK If what you say is true, then serving is my utmost pleasure
Idk about you bro, but in my regiment (The Rifles) Muslims and Sikhs are the only ones allowed to keep a beard.
Ironically more Muslims served the British army in WW2 than the Bosnian Muslim in the SS.
the british empire forced them to; hitler did not force muslims to join the SS. not an argument.
As brave heart said men don't follow titles they follow courage and if u would only lead them into battle then they would follow and so would I for god's sake trust yourself and the Muslims you would have a powerful army
the overall quality of the british army would be diminished if there were a significant number of muslims in it.
trusting muslims is also not advisable.
@@terrenceroll3848 funny you should say that many Muslims served and died for the British empire in first and second world wars
@@ifzash5044 Different times and for the most part different muslims. At the time britain was occupying various foreign lands and some of the peoples of those lands chose to serve the empire over their own nations. I would argue that any muslim who willingly served the empire (which was run primarily by christianized anglos and some jews) was not a true muslim.
@@terrenceroll3848 so British sending 100 million in military aid to Ukraine are not real Christian s
@@ifzash5044 very few people in the UK are christian anymore; certainly they don't fit the biblical definition. The politicians certainly aren't. Though in many ways that's a good thing as christianity, like islam, is a semitic delusion.
Islam shall be the way of life in Britain Inshallah
U wish 😂
One Wonders.
Because the British Army isn’t the Pakistani army.
It’s because the history and current events.
I want to help my country.. but I think I'll try to give aid instead of kill..
Me too.
Donate to/for: ASIA/Africa, instead: is what I strive to: "go for"/do.
Because British Muslims will join IS army.
Perhaps i think themselves don't want to fight for Britain in wars with countries which have muslim populations?
Why would muslims fight for british WTF IS GOING ON? WTF!
Islam is not a terrorist In practicing Islam killing a fellow is strictly prohibited Even though different religions in Islam kill one person the same as killing all people in the world
Christian Jew are always hate our religion and always don't misunderstanding read Quran Allah say lot about it
Would you join a mil., of A Country, where you are discriminated against and treated, as a 2nd class citizen!!??
no who want that better b in my country India I love India
Oh woe is me. Stop with the boring victim comments.
You're chatting utter bollocks.
@@touchoffairy9975 I would much rather, "fundraise to: reparate_ India!!"!!!!
@@ABNJIM10 FREEdom of speech, don't you just Love it, L.O.L.!!??
@@ABNJIM10 o.k. assuming (that) you are white, would you fight for a Country, which has -Historically; hated (on) and "subjugated"/what -not; white -peeps??
Because it's Haram to do so
@khushal singh hindu you worship gay gods LOL
khushal singh why you hate Muslims so much? Huh? 😂😂🤦♂️
@khushal singh says the person who does not know the capital of Pakistan and nothing about Muslims.
Not haram, but kufr
"Those who believe (in Allah) are fighting in the way of Allah, those who disbelieve (in Allah) fight in the way of the taghut" (Surah 4, Ayah 76)
Shouldn’t want to recruit them.
Would not trust ONE,,ever!!!!!!!
sherman4970 you are so dumb.
@@k_3bd691 go away
It's haram for us Muslim to join non Muslim armies since they don't fight for Islam
Of course. Religion comes before country. Religion comes before everything for you guys, even humanity
@@soumya1840 that is d reason all hate. Dem
I could make a super offensive joke about this but I’m not going to unless you ask me :)
FoxTrot do it I want to hear it
Please doooo
Y u should Keep Radio-Active (Nuclear) Hand Grenada in ur Pocket, Absurd Discussion......
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