I'm still absolutely amazed by the electro/mechanical engineering that went into these wonderful instruments. Even though the modern electronic versions can come really close, there's nothing like the sound of a mechanical tone generator and the mechanical effects that go with them. It's like looking into something from the past that was way ahead of it's time.
@@deanevangelista6359 despite the myth, a transistor can do the exact same thing and even better, as far less thermal noise and no mechanical vibration picking. Sure at the time transistor didn't exist, and the tube default are a part of the sound that we all know. Just the same way a western from 1950's look with some oversaturated colours and grains from the film used at the time, any smartphone nowadays can do better than the most expensive equipment they use at the time, but it's part of the magic.
Great video. I’m no tech per se, but I’ve replaced the start and run motors in my ‘48 CV and I’ve “known” how these instruments make their unique sound, but never witnessed the remarkable detail of the TG assembly. The oil wick on the vibrato scanner is rather obvious, but I never considered how the the oil gets distributed throughout the TG. That part just blew me away. Every time I crank up my CV or B, there’s an abundance of things one takes for granted, but be that as it may, the respect for the engineering and manufacturing must be admired.
30 years ago, I built an organ that imitate exactly the "hammond sound" , using a MK50241 Integrated Circuit and 7 chip 7490 for divide the octaves... And 30 years later, still works fine !!
Ah the venerable TTL Decade counter. I remember playing around with those and other counters back in HS in the early 80's. Made some interesting tone generating circuits with a 555 as a clock source. Never sounded like a Harmmond though. Still, fun times discovering Integrated Circuits.
As a Hammond tech, and Yamaha tech, there is no way that a filter square wave sounds like a tone wheel organ. Every modern organ company has tried and even Hammond tried and they can't do it. There are clone wheel organs now that use digital modeling that are pretty amazing, but using a top octave generator and dividing.
@@andymorin9163 However I can tell you the key to achieve that same sound of the Hammond organ, independently of the circuit details. You must use the MK50241 integrated circuit, which is a chip that gives you the 12 notes of a full octave when you put a square signal at the input. The 12 outputs of the MK40241 are also square waves. To convert them to sine waves, I used filters. Any filter will do. The idea is that the filters are capable of transforming the square signals into sine waves. In my case I used as filters a set of phase shift oscillators where I lowered the gain of the transistor so that it would not start oscillating, but the signal I injected at the input was transformed into a sine wave. Each filter admitted 1/2 octave. Therefore it was not necessary to use a filter for each note. If you understand electronics, you will understand this comment and you will be able to make your own bank of notes that will sound exactly like the Hammond organ. The rest of the circuits (mixers, amplifiers, on/off gates for each key can be as you prefer. They will have no influence on the type of sound. If you want an example of the use of the MK50241 circuit and other circuits, I leave a link to the schematics of the Baldwin Funmachine organ that used this chip and had a sound also -not exactly- but very similar to the Hammond. In this pdf file you can see all the circuits and also you can read about how they work because everything is very well explained. I wish you success in your project. diagramas.diagramasde.com/otros/Organo%20Baldwin%20Fun%20Machine%20mod%20121-121W_Technical%20Manual.pdf
@@timpullen4941 However, I was able to make it. Although I obtained the tones thanks to the MK50241 chip, which delivered square waves to the output, I passed those square signals through phase shifted oscillators which I prevented from oscillating, using them as filters, although they were actually oscillators controlled by those square waves. In theory a filter was needed for each note but I made several tests and I came to the conclusion that it was possible to use a filter for each 6 consecutive notes without altering too much the output waveform. In my opinion, this is the key to achieve the sound so close to the original Hammond.
Thanks for this Bob -- brought back many memories from my days in the workshop in the early 70s. Of course in those days we just used to complain about how awkward it was to get at certain parts!... although even then we knew the tonewheel Hammonds were a breed apart...something special....
No, it isn't Hall effect. Hall effect is about the interaction of a magnetic field (existing) on current passing through a plate fixed at right angles to the field, and the electrons in the plate being diverted to create a small potential difference in the plate at right angles to both the current and the field. i.e. fixed magnetic field, current in, voltage out. There is no movement. The pickups on a Hammond are each like a small alternator, i.e. something that converts the mechanical energy (in this case of the tone generator main shaft) into electrical energy at a set frequency (in this case at any particular pickup). The core of each pickup provides a magnetic field and the lobes of each tone-wheel modulate the magnetic field by changing the magnetic reluctance of the magnetic circuit (i.e. the field is stronger with the tip of each lobe under the pickup core and weaker with the trough between lobes under the pickup core). The field strength experienced by the winding (wound around the pickup) thus increases and decreases, inducing a small sinusoidal alternating current in the winding. This current is taken to the pre-amplification circuitry. Each tone-wheel has a number of lobes, which combine with the gear ratios between the main shaft and tone-wheel shafts to provide a number of pulses per second based on the motor speed at 60Hz (US) or 50Hz (elsewhere). What I don't know is if the pickup cores are permanent magnets, or if there is a dc excitation winding providing the field as well as the ac tone winding as in a modern alternator. I suspect its the latter. Interesting experiment. With replacement tone-wheels as rare as hen's teeth, I wouldn't have been treating them like that, regardless of whether i saw shavings !
Seriously Folks ...? As a long time electronic madman I am truly amazed to see the construction of this wonderful device. It is mind blowing and totally unexpected. Now I have to learn more...THANX
Excellent video. I picked up a Hammond organ that hasn't been used or oiled in over 30 years. Of course the tone generator is howling and squealing. There was a tube of Hammond oil inside the cabinet. I used the entire tube and the trough is still dry and the TG is still noisy. I read in some forums that it could take many days for the oil to do its job. In the mean time I ordered more Hammond oil. Now that I see how it works, its a huge help.
Thank you for disecting the tone generator of a Hammond organ. I had always wondered just what it looked like and how the tones were generated and picked up. I've had my Hammond M-3 since my parents bought it (used) in 1960 when I was 10 years old and it has survived moving all around the country. Unfortunately, due to space limitations, it has been in storage for a few years. I'll have to find some Hammond oil to fill it when I move to a larger apartment.
This is a great, simple detail of a tone wheel frame and function! Without involving myself in debate, I would like to point out that The only thing the original Hammond service manual's introduction of theory says is: "5-8. The edge of each tone wheel and the tip of each magnet are coated with lacquer to prevent corrosion, for, should oxidation set in, the change in tooth shape would introduce undesirable frequencies. " Mileage may vary. I'm in the music repair biz, too, Tour Desk Refurb
Thanks for this fun video that demystifies the tone wheel for me. What a fascinating instrument! Recently inherited a 1961 B3 with the original Leslie cabinet. It's been in the same spot since 1961, very pristine condition now that it's been serviced. Moving it home now very carefully, and yes I'm going to be sure the tone wheel is locked down before moving.
I used to build these and other Hammond organs in Chicago while I was going to DeVry. I worked at the Diversy Ave. plant in audio pre-test. What came to us at that point were the finished manuals with drawbars and stops. Our job in that department was to assure that every contact functioned and that the drawbars and stop produced the sounds they were supposed to make. There are a number of contacts for each key that had to make contact at the same time during a key being pressed.
I have not actually gone through all these comments until now. How long did you work at Hammond? Did you ever work on assembling or calibrating the Tone Generator?
Thanks for the video. I just bought a Hammond T-212 today for $250. I just replaced the speaker on the leslie side of the cabinet, broken wire between connector and speaker cone. I'll be ordering the tone wheel oil tomorrow. All notes are working, but TWG is noisy. Tomorrow I'll be cleaning key contacts and tabs. I should have it all working in no time! Your video a big help, THANKS!
This is one of the coolest videos I've ever seen. Something about this is so damn cool. Can't imagine the talent and focus needed to design and bring something like this to life. Time to listen to some Deep Purple!!
@@kadendiggs9267 The distance between minds is the transverse of an electron. Switch on - travel on - in space, the sounds of space - toward unity. Electricity...
One suggestion: Make another video with the same Tone Genarator running, but this time, use two small paper squares (one per hand) that you will gently bring to the tonewheels just enough to generate a listenable tone. This way, we will be able to hear the tones generated by each tonewheel without having it slow down (generating a false tone). Thank you.
There is never any contact between the tonewheel and the pickup. The concept is called the "Hall Effect". When a lobe of the TW gets near the magnetic pickup, a pulse is generated. This pulse is what generates the tone. The more lobes on the TW, the more pulses, and a higher tone is generated. Tones are there all the time that the generator is turning, pressing the key completes a circuit that lets the sound out.
the hall effect doesnt come into play here, only induction. unless you were to analyze the action going on almost down to a quantum level. the workings of a hammond organ aren't much different from an electric guitar: the pickup consists of the coil, and it's magentized core. if a magnetic object moves nearby, the slight changes in the magnetic field induce a bit of current, that can be amplified. nothing fancy there. however the electromechanical tone generator system really is a lovely piece of engineering in its own right, and quite a mathematical monstrousity. the spectrum of frequencies generated, one for each note, are not individually tuned, but mechanical-mathematically derived from the speed of the central drive shaft. as a result the notes cant ever get out of being in tune with eachother, creating mathematically perfect harmonics. (the overtones of the draw bars are generated by dividing the frequencies, and cant go out of tune either)
An interesting point about the syncing between the harmonics. I read a theory that doing FM with analog oscillators would not work well due to imprecisions on the oscillators. "linear" FM is said to be best done using digital oscillators. By linear FM, I mean FM such that the fundamental frequency remains unchanged.
I agree that the frequencies generated by the wheels are locked together (mechanically) but to say they are perfectly in tune is simply not true. Each tone is in tune with its octave, for sure, but the twelve notes within an octave can only be approximately in tune with each other. Gears and tonewheels have an integral number of teeth so the ratios between the frequencies can only ever be rational, which is _not_ what is required for it to be perfectly in tune. It's the discrepancy that gives the instrument its characteristic sound.
I recently have been working on my 1960 M3 after taking the organ out of storage after 20 years. This had the front cover still on it so the insides are very clean. Tube checked and replaced as needed amp tubes. Hammond oil to left cup for scanner and motor, both middle and right cups had three doses of filling cup, that was Friday night. Saturday checked and had some squealing bearings so I left it alone. Sunday night so two days later: tonight, I realized that some heat might get the oil to flow better. After ten minutes of going up and down the generator on the bottom side slowly back and forth, I started the organ and had NO SQUEEALING!! When I shut down the generator it ran for 16 seconds until it stopped. I imagine this might be rare? but if your organ is squealing give it some loving heat! Johnne in Clallam Bay, WA..
That squeal is the TG begging for oil. The heat probably released some oil that was imbedded in the oilite bearings, and is a temporary fix. The ideal solution is to turn the TG on it's side and oil each bearing. This is easy in an M model, just unclamp the wire harness, unbolt the TG and lift. If you do not want to do that, fill the oil cups a few times and wait a week or 2 for the oil ot get to the bearings. Heat will help here as well as it is possible that someone used something other than Hammond oil and it can gum up the threads. There is a remote possibility that someone broke a oil thread at some point over the years. Bottom line is to shut it down immediately if you hear it squeal, as it could cause bearing damage.
A great look inside a Hammond TG which up until today was only still pictures for me from a Hammond service manual. A nice touch for this video would be to put the out output of some of the pickup coils through an amp so we could hear the difference of sound as the pickup coils were being manipulated. I understand that this was a demo of a discarded TG but of course there would never be a reason to disturb the pickup coil settings of a factory setup Hammond unless you had to replace a coil which I suspect would be a very rare occurrence.
Hi there, BIG thanx for this vid!! I got a M3, for nearly 8 years now. As i get it, it´s TG was not runnig very well as it was standing in an edge for 20 years, or so, unused (shame!), I cleaned it, simply by fillig it with two cans of WD40, and flows out pretty dark at first. But then lighter and lighter.Since then, the M3 and it´s TG, works verry well, with regular oil service and,of course, regular playing..! But I never, ever disasemble the TG - so it´s great to see it like this...:)
Beautiful. Thank you for sharing. I had to partially take mine apart to fix some connections, but putting it back is a pain because I'm lazy to look at the docs so I do it all by memory.amazing instrument, can beleive I found it in a ditch for free. Actually I can, it was broken
thanks very much for this. the hammond voice is so distinctive; wondered for a long time what's behind the wood. xlnt information delivery and video quality.
great video, I never knew how the Hammond tone generator is constructed. I just wondered in earlier years when a Hammond Organ was part of our band equipment, why these instruments weighed around 200 kg :-D
Grazie Bob, per questi servizi, TG e TW grandissime invenzioni, che rimarranno per molto tempo ancora e saranno sempre imitate. Io dico però che la tecnologia di oggi qualcosa di buono ha fatto, grazie a Internet questi meravigliosi strumenti stanno vivendo la loro seconda vita, per la grande quantità di informazioni che li riguardano, e che continuamente ci scambiamo da svariato tempo ormai......contribuendo tantissimo a mantenere alta la leggenda Hammond....ciao! Saluti da Roma.
I’ve owned, serviced & torn apart an RT-3, two B3’s, an L3 & a Porta-B. Only my porta-B had the same motor as yours here. As you pointed out, you Definitely don’t want to completely disassemble a tone generator! The machining & labor costs today would be too astronomical to build a tone generator B3.
I don't understand any of it, nor the tone generator, nor the wheel. Only this: what an incredibly complicated piece of 'raw' electronics (is that the right word?) to produce such a magnificent sound. What an improbable creativity and prior trial-and-error, back then in the thirties. One also wonders if/how hammond organs did not break down often, due to the delicate components and 'moving parts' (whereas today nothing moves anymore in a modern Yamaha organ).
still a marvel of mechanical science. and nothing screams like the real tonewheels. not any of the new emulating keyboards. close but no cigar... i have 2 perfect b3's, and a 147 and 122.... still love the sound of the wheels grinding up to a start................
@TheMic609 It definately needs oil! Fill each of the funnels to the top twice, wait a few days, then repeat. It can take a week or m ore for the oil to finally reach the bearings. I would not turn it on for any length of time if it is squealing...you run a risk of wearing out some of the bearings, or wore yet, causing one to seize. If you are impatient, it is possible to unbolt the TG and oil each of the bearings from below. You will need something like a hyperdermic syringe with a long needle.
I wonder if the engineer(s) who designed this had any idea the impact it would have on the world of music. I know Hammond were mainly interested in recreating the sound of a pipe organ in a self contained instrument, could they have ever thought that sound would be in the center of genres like blues, funk, even full on rock and roll in certain circumstance.
Crazy how much labor it took to make our Hammonds. I’m 65, have owned many Hammonds & repaired them since 69 or so. But I never had to disassembled my tone generators, so I wasn’t aware of all the individual dual wheel shafts. I thought there was the main drive shaft down the middle and 2 long shafts on either side, not all those individual shafts. Even more parts! I don’t know how Hammond ever made a profit! I don’t know how Farfisa ever made a profit either! Open up a 60’s Combo Compact and check out all the circuit boards & the Incredible number of wires & cables running all over the place! I bought one new for $600!
You are right...I doubt that there will be many digital instruments playing after 78 years. Worst case is if electronic components like caps, resistors and tubes are not made. At that time, though, we still have excellent amp replacements like those made by Trek, and the tonewheels still make the tones. The motors are repairable, BTW. Bearings can be replaced and they can be rewound if necessary.
as it was in those days,the organs were over engineered compared to organs made today. no doubt one of the reasons why so many Hammond organs are older then the people who love them
I've read this before. Explain how they are over engineered? Given vacuum tube technology in the 30s, I think this a clever design considering what was available at the time.
I just picked up a Hammond H-100 that showed up for free on FB Marketplace. It was in a garage and probably hadn't been oiled or used for 40+ years. The vinyl power sheath was crumbly. Now it's in my garage and I'm replacing the electrolytic filter capacitors on the power supply and the 5AR4 rectifier tubes are suspect. I've ordered solid state plug-in 5AR4 replacements for use in testing and may go back to 5AR4 tubes later. I'm going to replace the canned electrolytics with an axial cap array and relocate them off of the chassis (onto the cab wall) and connect them with longer wires. Two plastic keys are broken, so I need to figure out how to replace those. Overall, mine was pretty clean inside and had a mostly-full original oil tube inside. I've oiled the two funnels, the two motor tubes, and the vibrato well. When disconnected from the tonewheel main shaft, the motor spins and is silent. However, the tonewheel shaft acts "spring loaded" and, if I try to rotate it, it returns to its original position. I think something just after the 1st spring junction is binding it. The tonewheels look new and undamaged and most of them spin freely and have a bit of free axial play, which I understand is a good sign. I need to scan them carefully and identify the problem spots. When I opened it up, it looked like the thick brown felt blanket over the TG was factory placed, so I don't think it likely that any foreign objects fell into the mechanism. Possibly, some bits are dry-oil-residue glued together? Or, maybe a tonewheel sensor is out of position and binding a tonewheel (probably not that, since your video demonstrates that isolated tonewheels can jam without affecting others)? Anywho, anyone who has advice or ideas to share, thanks in advance! Thanks you, Rinoa, for the video and explanation!
When the TG shaft acts like that it is certainly because there are bearings that are gummed up and frozen. Sometimes, oiling the TG and waiting a couple weeks for the oil to get where it is supposed to be will fix things. Whatever you do, do not force it. Turn gently back and forth. The main shaft has several spring couplings that make it feel this way. If you force it and the springs become dislodged, the TG will be trashed, as fixing is a major job. If you can see the screws on the broken keys and something to glue to, I would get some 5 minute epoxy and glue the nroken keys in place. Access to these keys is another major job...take a look at the video I posted.
You are obviously ignorant of the variety of TG that Hammond produced and the repair and maintenance of these devices. Before I shot this video, I tried literally for 2 years to GIVE this away. Shipping was often an issue as this thing weighs a lot and it would cost a lot to ship anywhere. Also, there is ZERO need for anyone to replace an entire TG from an H model. This TG is not compatible with the other earlier consoles like the B,C,D,E, etc. with either components or in it's entirety. I just did not have the room to store it any longer. The knowledge that was uncovered and the show and tell value was worth it, rather than me disposing without the video.
@@bobmann107I bought a couple of old organs what's the idea of salvage in the power amps conversion to guitar amps. Will it be a bad idea to just throw that stuff away. I mean I don't think they're very valuable. In fact I think he only gave like $10 for one and the other they couldn't get rid of so they gave it to me it's a really small and pretty darn antiques
@@tomstulc9143 I am assuming that you are referring to Hammonds. I actually sold a few amps to someone who rebuilds them for use as guitar amps. It will take someone who knows what he is doing, though. If not that, just the tubes are worth some $$, look in ebay for estimates. It also depends on the model of the Hammond, some are worth more than others. Also depending on the model, there are other components that are worth some $$$, like the buss bars, keys, pedal boards, drawbar unit, etc.
Thank you for sharing. What I been searching for, not continuously, for at least several hours, is how to tune this after the capacitors are replaced, especially since non-standard values. Cheers, Adriel
There are 2 ways to calibrate. You will need either an oscilloscope or a millivolt meter. You can either change the capacitor values to achieve the desired output, or move the magnetic pickup rods in or out to achieve the desired value. You may want to also look into installing a R/C network in those tones that need it. You will need to procure a set of tone values and match your values to the chosen calibration curve. hammond-leslie.info/KonsTGandTaperingData/ Go to "the organ forum" web site and ask for assistance. There are a lot ov very competent and helpful people on that forum. This is a tedious process, and difficult to perform with the TG installed as half the pickups are at the back and hard to reach. Also the tiny locking screws for the pickups are easily broken off if they are frozen in place, and there is no real repair for that other than TG dismantling.
@@bobmann107, thank you for your help. Right now, have a Harbor Fright DVM (spelling intentional) and a Heathkit 7A that was my first re-cap. Since it is a comparison, the readings only have to be reliable, correct? Okay, great knowing there are two methods. Maybe since I prefer having it performing best as possible, little of both. I do plan on marking where originally positioned so can return, plus, with it off, mark in red where it would contact, rather avoid dulling the tip and removing the lacquer.. Looked into the RC network just now, I have decided against, I want as much force out of it as possible (when unknowingly played it since 12 years of age, self taught, for a number of years until knew better, usually played at medium to full volume). That was one of the resources looking for, the link is so very helpful! 😁 Here I thought all equal, rather, maximum value and generally in a similar slope. I been a member of the forum for a very long time, lot changed, though not too long ago, asked for help and it was difficult. I am aware of it being a bit tedious, but, I adore tedium. Yes, I just found out the tone generator must be removed, any tips? Even with masking tape and a marker, the plethora of wires is terrifying. Good to know about the locking screws, have SiliKroil in an oiler, so add some and let it soak while re-capping. Cheers, Adriel
@@adrielrowley On the Organ Forum there is a file in the hammond forum under topics of a number guide for the terminal strip. It helps when putting it back together. Look here, there is a lot of information on the TG recalibration and cap replacement. organforum.com/forums/forum/electronic-organs-midi/hammond-organs/735606-tonewheel-output-calibration
I have a video on keyboard removal. This is a part of the process of TG removal, as all the same wires are disconnected. You could actually leave the TG in place, and take the keyboard out to access the TG. This would also mean that the pedal wires on the TG could stay in place.
@@bobmann107 Thank you for taking the time to find and reply to my questions, very much appreciated. 😁 Yes, I am making a mountain out of a molehill, sorry. I downloaded the file, see about getting it printed. That should save a lot of time. My high strung mind is having a hard time reading through the thread, I rather have data like what is provided in the thread I shared... However, if have another relapse of being unwell, I have something to read. Removing the manual also allow me to fix my mistake made due to inexperience (now know to slide protection in) plus clean and re-grease the strips. Cheers, Adriel
Very interesting. I was raised on a Hammond and spent a good portion of my life using it for my living. About twenty years ago I bought a Hammond XB-3. I think that one of the chips failed and now I can't find anyone who will fix it. Any suggestions? Gary Schneider....Alameda, California.
if no sound comes out of the old but working car speaker and the amp has some access you may want to look for a fuse area to see if something causing it to burn out (also called an 'open'), of course I am giving general information here which might not apply at all to a Hammond, I'm sure there are lots of people online who do know about them, good luck and hope your fix is simple.
EXCELENT PRESENTATION, in your opinion, what would be the reason to replace to a tone wheel generator/ over repairing the older that is not working. I know thats a broad quest but it seems to me that they are made like a tank. if not lubricated even a tank will stop.
If I understand what you are asking, there can be many reasons for a TG not functioning properly. Each reason has a degree of difficulty, and more importantly the model of the organ must be considered. An M series, for example, has a street value around here of $0-$100. I would not think investing in replacement parts and the many hours of labor would be very cost effective. Also consider that any parts would be removed from a donor organ. Just replacing the entire TG would be more economical in 99.9% of the cases. Not to mention the fact that the difficulty factor of disassembling a TG and putting it back together rates about a 14 on a scale of 1 - 10.
The reason for the question. There was is Hammond E-112 model on the free ads on craigslist. the ad reads: Hammond E-112 turns on but won't play. A organ repairman said this organ needs a new tone wheel. Don't let this one go to waste. : end
Hello Bobmen, I hear your the Doctor of Hammonds by many Hammond organ players, so here's my question, I just picked up an 1964 a100 clean condition. Very clean, For around $550 from a Lutheran church out here in Texas a small little town, moving forward, getting the Organ home come to found out tones are missing in the up and down Manual was hoping it was a simple wiring Attachwirein issue, but then I had message a guy name Peter who was kind enough to give me some General advice from TH-cam, you may know him or saw him on TH-cam, not to question his Knowledge, But getting a second opinion, And I would appreciate your expertise on the matter, moving on, the up and down keys on first drawbar on both Manual 49 51 keys have no sound. second drawbar out on both Manual no sound on 28- 30 D&E almost all drawbars tones are out on both Manuals a couple of keys that is, The exact keys on up and down are not play tones, I would appreciate any help And expert advice you can give me as for as what I'm up against here, Would very much be appreciated. Note: it's only the white keys that are out, The last drawbar out plays all keys. thanks Bobmen!
Felt like I was watching an autopsy of a loved one. I have a CV/3 fitted with Trek III percussion that does 2nd, 3rd and 5th harmonic. clean as can be and I pit a hotter tube in the Leslie so it distorts at lower volume. and all new caps and rebuilt scanner done by a pro.
Jeez, it seems to be a huge clock mechanism and its maintenance must be pretty expensive. I'm glad that digital electronics is able to copy the best bit of it and future electronics will be able to salvage even more out of it.
Quite the contrary. I have a Model A that was built in 1935 and is still working. A few drops of oil every year and it will be still working for my grandkids. That electronic keyboard will never last that long. The generator is the one part that seldom needs attention. While the sound has been imitated electronically, it has yet to be duplicated.
Electronic keyboards should last even longer, than mechanics, because only some parts, such as electrolytic condensers might get old and then need to be replaced. I bought a Roland Kbd some 35 years, ago. It is still like new. I have to use a sledge hammer to disable it... :)
The now 81 year old Hammond Model A is a piece of equipment that will last for another 81 more years to come and is serviceable. Like other Hammonds, it's place is in studios next to that grand piano, for situations when true sound is desired, whether it is jazz, soul, progressive rock, pop or gospel. Your Roland might last physically, which is most unlikely, but the sounds are unusable unless you're trying to sound like early Phil Collins.
I find your assertion that somehow the sound from a tonewheel is timeless, but that a sound from an electronic synth from the 80s is dated, and limited to only playing 1980s music. Piano is still really popular and I think over 300 years old? It's subjective whether a given sound is not timeless. To me, the classic detuned pad on vintage synths is still relevant. Maybe the 808 cowbell is a bit dated, but some people still use it. My point is that people sometimes resurrect older synth sounds, and I am glad for it.
I greatly admire geniuses playing Hammond style's on clones, although it is more about their flawless techniques than a Hammond sound. Most emulators and Hammond style synths are not creating a sound of a tone wheel generator. I had a case of a Hammond player asking me to replace a tonewheel generator in his Hammond with Hammond's oscillator board. He was back in a week and begged me to put his old tonewheel generator back. Is is a true story. I was absolutely not surprized.
I agree 100%. I do own a Viscount Legend. I must say that the sound reproduction is remarkable. Keep in mind that 80% of the "Hammond Sound" is a direct result of the speaker. People spend too much time chasing that sound, when it really only exists in their own mind. I have had dozens of all models of Hammond come thru the shop, rebuilt dozens, and listened to hundreds. They all sound different to some degree.
@@bobmann107 They do, however an amount of harmonics of a tonewheel is practicaly infinite and Hammond's genius was on flltering and mixing those harmonics. Although it is theoreticaly possible to build an immitation of tonewheel using electronics they do fall short of quality. I will not even try to discuss seven contacts under every key in Hammonds, or a fact of using vacuum tubes. Speakers were a masterpiece in years 1950-1980. People were fascinated with electronics. I still have original Eminnence speakers, built like a tank and sounding perfectly.Leslie was a superior company and I agree that a big percentage of Hammond sound was a result of their perfection in sound engineering. Too bad that these times are gone.
Faraday’s Law of Induction is in play not Hall effect. Hall effect is a differential across a conductor. Faradays law of induction is the change (caused by the lobe on the tone wheel. ) in a magnetic field that is transmitted as an electric field into the actual wire in the coil surrounding the magnet. An electric guitar works the same way.
I just picked up a Hammond T582c today.. I have a lot of mechanical noise on mine, But I oiled it very liberally. If it hasn't been oiled in some time, Could it take over night to soak in and oil each bearing????
You are comparing apples to oranges. Totally different sounds, totally different instruments, and totally a matter of personal preference. These organs have been making music for 70+ years now, and will be still goung for another 70+ years. I have a Model A that was built in 1935 that still functions and sounds great. Your digital organ will be obsolete or unrepairable and in a landfill in a few years, and the Hammonds will still be playing. Thanks for looking at my channel.
we were scrapping model As 20 years ago because you couldn't reinsert the keyboard bus bars after removing them to clean them, the motors were failing, and coils were opening on the generator. they definitely won't still be going 70 years from now. there are no replacements for the keyboard parts, the generator components and no replacement motors. there are "clonewheels" from the 1970s which are still going such as the Korg CX3 and plenty of digital synths from the 80s are still working fine.
Sounds like you had one Hammond that you could not fix. This does not mean that all Hammonds will be scrapped anytime soon. My 1935 Model A still works just fine...83 years later. I also know of many more keyboards that had to be scrapped because of component and keyboard failures that made them irreparable or not economically feasible to do so. Buss bars can be tricky to insert. You should have asked someone who knows how to do it to show you. Never seen a TG coil fail, although I have heard it can happen. Trek products sells a replacement tone device in those rare cases. Any motor can be rewound. The motor in the Hammond has no brushes to go bad. Never seen a TG "go bad" either, unless it was trashed on purpose. Only parts that come in contact with each other are the bearings and shafts. If properly lubed, these will last indefinitely as the shaft actually rides on a microscopic layer of oil...as does any bearing/shaft assembly. And a clonewheel still sounds like a clonewheel, if that is important to you. Please, if you run across another Hammond that you cannot fix, donate it to someone who can fix it. These instruments are definitely not for everyone. I personally like a real organ with 2 keyboards and foot pedals rather than a keyboard. I had a top-line Yamaha Clavinova for a while. It is truly an electronics engineering marvel. I sold it because I preferred my old C2.
I appreciate the mind-boggling engineering, sheer beauty, and authentic sound of a clean $14,000-$20,000, 400 pound Hammond B3. An expert aficionado like you with a discerning ear can suss out a digital SKX Stage any day of the week. Kudos. However, gigging organists aren't serving at the pleasure of aficionados with discerning ears. They are playing for drunk horny people who wouldn't know the difference. So logic demands that I go with the 40-pound digital rig and save thousands in cost, tens of thousands in Chiropractic bills, and enough $$$ saved to get a new digital rig 10 years from now. The tech is only going to improve.
@noahjm10 This system is simple. Strings carry oil from that trough to the bearing via capillary action. The string is simply wrapped around the bearing, which is porous. Don't get too concerned about over-oiling. Worst that can happen is that the trough will overflow and make a puddle under the TG. Fill the funnel to the top, let it drain, then fill it again. Do this anually. Ten drops is not enough.
It would be fun to make a huge tone wheel from an old steel merry-go-round, a 2-stroke motor (muffled, of course) on a rubber tire contact drive, a large loudspeaker with a wonker of a magnet converted to act as a pickup and a modest p/a system to amplify it. I’d watch that video. Heck; maybe I’ll make that video after I pay my insurance premiums and buy the dog some ear muffs ; )
Excellent video, and thank you for de-mystifying the mysteries of the TG. While you were in there did you happen to notice how hard it would be to replace a damaged/missing tonewheel? I assume the entire shaft would have to be pulled out, meaning all wheels and partitions would have to be removed (basically the whole TG). Or is there an easier way?
I have never replaced one myself, so I cannot speak definitively. I have heard people say that they have replaced them, I would think that it would be rather involved, as they would have to be removed from the top, meaning lots of unsoldering. Also, there are several configurations of TW so one would need to be sure replacement is the same.
dangit! Anyway, the power may be other than 60HZ; for example European power is 50HZ. The other thing is that the starting capacitor may be going bad; this will prevent the TG from reaching full speed. Now that I think about it, there is one other thing, and that is if the TG has not been properly oiled it may be dragging.
Nice.... The H-Generator I've got sittin' over by me has two drum-type vibrato scanners... but same design with the red solid plastic mylar caps..... Great video.... 5 stars! :))
Dear, is it possible to put more drawbars at a M3 model? I was thinking to adapt drawbars taken from another M3. Maybe in a box, externally... but i don't know if is it possible, talking about the eletric part.
@wandov8 What is the purpose for more DB? More tones or the ability to have 2 sets per manual like a console? The former would be something that I have never heard done...the latter could be theoretically done with the proper switching. I would guess that you could have a switch with 9 poles that would allow switching from one DB set to the other. The H series does have 2 additional DB, but the H's TG also has more tonewheels. Look up the schematics to the M3 to see what is involved.
bobmann107 I had an organ go out of tune once because it had a poorly lubricated TG (that was of course immediately after I bought it, and before I had any oil to properly lubricate it). The extra friction slowed down a few of the wheels such that two or three keys (on a single drawbar) produced wavering and noticeably low (more than a half tone) pitch. Of course, the TG also made an awful noise whenever it was switched on, so I didn't play it much until I fixed it. Now that's all fixed and it's back in tune though!
Yes they are amazing alright, and so streamlined in their function. I have Hammond and Wurlitzer electromechanical organs and I'm hoping to be able to find a simple way to add individual volume controls to each of the tabs on my Wurlitzer electrostatic reed organ so that it can be as versatile as a Hammond. Wurlitzer used reeds as tone generators not as audible sound, but instead the each reed fluttering in front of a pick-up acted like a constant varying capacitor. Google Wurlitzer 4600 Series.
Does anybody know how a Hammond organ generates so many different tones with the wheels it has? I would understand it without drawbars (number of keys equals number of tone wheels). But because of the drawbars it seems to me you need lots and lots of more wheels. How does that work.
Hi, what the drawbars do is they mix individual sounds together. So as an example if you have A 440Hz as a pivot tone there is also A2 880 and A3 1760 etc mixed in. so the 8' drawbar just ads more of A2 and 4' drawbar more of A3 etc. You don't need extra wheel for the aliquot as it's already there.
Jos Jong the tonewheels generate every single note on the organ, right? And essentially, they are just volume potentiometers. So, pull the 8’ One all the way out, you get ‘piano pitch’ across the manual concerned. Draw the 16’ and you get an octave below...4’ an octave up, 2’ an octave above that. Now, the harmonics come from mixing in different notes. Vary they volumes of each and you get a different tone quality. For example, pull all the white tonebars and it sounds flute....add in harmonica and it gets brassier. Some fabulous effects are possible.
Interesting video but ouch! that was rough on the tonewheels and pickups... There is a finite number of TGs in the world, and they are not getting in better shape, we must care for them.
This was from an H model, and not interchangeable with one of the more desired A,B,C,D, etc models. I had several of these over the years out of the H that had entirely too many other issues to rescue. I would have spent hundreds of $ on the orgen and weeks of work only to have to give it away, as no one wants these models in this area. I offered parts up for free, and after years I gave up and scrapped them. Sad, but this the nature of these particular models.
@@bobmann107 ah. I see. Well then, having known, I would probably have been interested in buying one of them. I know the h series was a monster, but the tg would have been good for Hammond Frankenstein project
@ZmajSnoshaj Maybe you haven't heard of me but I've been repairing Hammonds since the late 1980s. You're right - I don't have any videos of my work up on TH-cam, but I do have a lot of photos of my repair and restoration projects on my Facebook page. I used to be really active in MITA back in the mid to late 1990s, but I didn't see the justification for annual dues. I may actually join again soon though. I'm getting ready to put my website back up. Will let you know when I do.
Ok...I have a question. I have a 1962 L-102, and it's been neglected for many years, but I've oiled it every week, per the local organ technician, until now it's perfectly quiet whenever it's turned on.But It's really sharp. I thought when I got it last month, it was because it was oiled improperly by the previous owner. But no matter what I've tried, it's still sharp. Is there anything I can do to bring the organ back into pitch?
The mechanical tone generator will still be working long after digital instruments. There are no integrated circuits, RAMs or ROMs to become obsolete. Just keep the bearings oiled and as long as the motor does not burn out all will be fine and readily repairable.
Sounds like you did not bother to read the description. This was a learning exercise to see just how much contact can be made before sound qualith is compromised. THIS WAS A SCRAP TG!!!!! Right after shooting the video the TG was dumped in the SCRAP HOPPER!!!
hi bob man, i have an M 101, and until about a week ago it was running fine. I have a feeling one of my room mates might have tried to turn it on without knowing the procedure. When I turn it on, i hear the wheeel start to spin, and it seems like its gonna work, but there is just no sound. any tips? where should i oil it? what kind of oil? thanks, -dennis
Once the TG is calibrated, the pickups are locked in place. When you press a key, there are 9 contacts that complete the circuit. I posted a video about the key contacts that you may be interested in.
Wicks on a Hammond Tone wheel Tone Generator? Their names are Louis, Adolphe, and John, not! For these brothers built affordable pipe organs! Hammond used to be an electromechanical organ (before transistors), no wonder many of these are still quite playable, being a well oiled, such as this one is?
A hammond runs off a synchronus motor, and will rotate at the correct speed if supplied with 60Hz power. If it is out of tune it is one of 2 things; incoming power is at something other than 60
@wandov8 The Tone Generators are diffent, B3 to M3. Keyboards are totally different, even apart from the number of octaves. Look up "Keyboard Tapering". There are resistance wires inside the keyboard that shape the tones. An M3 will never be a B3. Look up "Foldback" which involves the altering or rearranging of tones in the keyboard. Note that both organs have 9 DB per keyboard. What you stated is like saying the crutial difference between a Corvette and a Cobalt is only the dash board.
@bobmann107 Thanks i filled the funnels with oil and it works now im kinda lucky to have found a tube of oil attached to the inside of it so i used all of that Thanks Mike
I know absolutely nothing about organs and organ repair, but I would think you would/could set the pick up rods by using a piece of paper between the pick up rod and the wheel. Slide the rod up, sandwiching the the paper between rod and wheel and lock it down, with using off of course. That is how I set the coil pick up on mowers.
They are all different. The only way to do this is with either an oscilloscope or accurate millivolt meter. The lower frequencies have more of a tolerance in movement that the upper...on the upper frequencies, .001" in the gap makes a difference Besides, to access the pickups this way would be a real challenge!
I don't understand why you spent over a minute from 5:41 jamming the pickup rods into the tonewheels. You had already demonstrated the clutch that operates in the event of a jam. The rods are not meant to touch the wheels. There's meant to be a gap and the optimum size of that gap is not as close to zero are you can get.
Fun for me. Just wanted to see what would happen. So many people are paranoid about adjusting the pickups I thought it would be informative to see exactly what would happen on a SCRAPPED generator.
The scanners were removed before I shot the video. A future video will be the rebuilding of the scanner to stop that rattling noise. I dont know where that background noise came from, there was nothing on in the shop. Unfortunately I have acute tinnitis, and have that kind of noise in my head 24/7...so I really did not notice it until it was brought to my attention. I will try the voice-over. Thanks for the comment.
Just gotta say, 14 years later that this video is just freakin' fascinating!
I'm still absolutely amazed by the electro/mechanical engineering that went into these wonderful instruments. Even though the modern electronic versions can come really close, there's nothing like the sound of a mechanical tone generator and the mechanical effects that go with them. It's like looking into something from the past that was way ahead of it's time.
The vacuum tubes also contributed to Hammond’s incredible sound.
i just got an old 70s x77 hammond , going to get it working right and play it !
@@deanevangelista6359 despite the myth, a transistor can do the exact same thing and even better, as far less thermal noise and no mechanical vibration picking. Sure at the time transistor didn't exist, and the tube default are a part of the sound that we all know. Just the same way a western from 1950's look with some oversaturated colours and grains from the film used at the time, any smartphone nowadays can do better than the most expensive equipment they use at the time, but it's part of the magic.
I'm amazed... There's A LOT of mechanical engineering behind this geared tone generator !!! Congratulations !!!!
Great video. I’m no tech per se, but I’ve replaced the start and run motors in my ‘48 CV and I’ve “known” how these instruments make their unique sound, but never witnessed the remarkable detail of the TG assembly. The oil wick on the vibrato scanner is rather obvious, but I never considered how the the oil gets distributed throughout the TG. That part just blew me away. Every time I crank up my CV or B, there’s an abundance of things one takes for granted, but be that as it may, the respect for the engineering and manufacturing must be admired.
Each to his own, it's good to see people who are experts working on this vintage equipment.
30 years ago, I built an organ that imitate exactly the "hammond sound" , using a MK50241 Integrated Circuit and 7 chip 7490 for divide the octaves...
And 30 years later, still works fine !!
Ah the venerable TTL Decade counter. I remember playing around with those and other counters back in HS in the early 80's. Made some interesting tone generating circuits with a 555 as a clock source. Never sounded like a Harmmond though. Still, fun times discovering Integrated Circuits.
As a Hammond tech, and Yamaha tech, there is no way that a filter square wave sounds like a tone wheel organ. Every modern organ company has tried and even Hammond tried and they can't do it. There are clone wheel organs now that use digital modeling that are pretty amazing, but using a top octave generator and dividing.
do you have the schematic? I’d love to start making synths n stuff
@@andymorin9163 However I can tell you the key to achieve that same sound of the Hammond organ, independently of the circuit details.
You must use the MK50241 integrated circuit, which is a chip that gives you the 12 notes of a full octave when you put a square signal at the input.
The 12 outputs of the MK40241 are also square waves. To convert them to sine waves, I used filters. Any filter will do. The idea is that the filters are capable of transforming the square signals into sine waves.
In my case I used as filters a set of phase shift oscillators where I lowered the gain of the transistor so that it would not start oscillating, but the signal I injected at the input was transformed into a sine wave. Each filter admitted 1/2 octave. Therefore it was not necessary to use a filter for each note.
If you understand electronics, you will understand this comment and you will be able to make your own bank of notes that will sound exactly like the Hammond organ.
The rest of the circuits (mixers, amplifiers, on/off gates for each key can be as you prefer. They will have no influence on the type of sound.
If you want an example of the use of the MK50241 circuit and other circuits, I leave a link to the schematics of the Baldwin Funmachine organ that used this chip and had a sound also -not exactly- but very similar to the Hammond.
In this pdf file you can see all the circuits and also you can read about how they work because everything is very well explained.
I wish you success in your project. diagramas.diagramasde.com/otros/Organo%20Baldwin%20Fun%20Machine%20mod%20121-121W_Technical%20Manual.pdf
@@timpullen4941 However, I was able to make it. Although I obtained the tones thanks to the MK50241 chip, which delivered square waves to the output, I passed those square signals through phase shifted oscillators which I prevented from oscillating, using them as filters, although they were actually oscillators controlled by those square waves.
In theory a filter was needed for each note but I made several tests and I came to the conclusion that it was possible to use a filter for each 6 consecutive notes without altering too much the output waveform.
In my opinion, this is the key to achieve the sound so close to the original Hammond.
Thanks for this Bob -- brought back many memories from my days in the workshop in the early 70s. Of course in those days we just used to complain about how awkward it was to get at certain parts!... although even then we knew the tonewheel Hammonds were a breed apart...something special....
No, it isn't Hall effect.
Hall effect is about the interaction of a magnetic field (existing) on current passing through a plate fixed at right angles to the field, and the electrons in the plate being diverted to create a small potential difference in the plate at right angles to both the current and the field. i.e. fixed magnetic field, current in, voltage out. There is no movement.
The pickups on a Hammond are each like a small alternator, i.e. something that converts the mechanical energy (in this case of the tone generator main shaft) into electrical energy at a set frequency (in this case at any particular pickup).
The core of each pickup provides a magnetic field and the lobes of each tone-wheel modulate the magnetic field by changing the magnetic reluctance of the magnetic circuit (i.e. the field is stronger with the tip of each lobe under the pickup core and weaker with the trough between lobes under the pickup core). The field strength experienced by the winding (wound around the pickup) thus increases and decreases, inducing a small sinusoidal alternating current in the winding. This current is taken to the pre-amplification circuitry.
Each tone-wheel has a number of lobes, which combine with the gear ratios between the main shaft and tone-wheel shafts to provide a number of pulses per second based on the motor speed at 60Hz (US) or 50Hz (elsewhere). What I don't know is if the pickup cores are permanent magnets, or if there is a dc excitation winding providing the field as well as the ac tone winding as in a modern alternator. I suspect its the latter.
Interesting experiment. With replacement tone-wheels as rare as hen's teeth, I wouldn't have been treating them like that, regardless of whether i saw shavings !
Seriously Folks ...? As a long time electronic madman I am truly amazed to see the construction of this wonderful device. It is mind blowing and totally unexpected. Now I have to learn more...THANX
Excellent video. I picked up a Hammond organ that hasn't been used or oiled in over 30 years. Of course the tone generator is howling and squealing. There was a tube of Hammond oil inside the cabinet. I used the entire tube and the trough is still dry and the TG is still noisy. I read in some forums that it could take many days for the oil to do its job. In the mean time I ordered more Hammond oil. Now that I see how it works, its a huge help.
Thank you for disecting the tone generator of a Hammond organ. I had always wondered just what it looked like and how the tones were generated and picked up. I've had my Hammond M-3 since my parents bought it (used) in 1960 when I was 10 years old and it has survived moving all around the country. Unfortunately, due to space limitations, it has been in storage for a few years. I'll have to find some Hammond oil to fill it when I move to a larger apartment.
This is a great, simple detail of a tone wheel frame and function!
Without involving myself in debate, I would like to point out that The only thing the original Hammond service manual's introduction of theory says is:
"5-8. The edge of each tone wheel and the tip of each magnet are coated with lacquer to prevent corrosion, for, should oxidation set in, the change in tooth shape would introduce undesirable frequencies. "
Mileage may vary. I'm in the music repair biz, too, Tour Desk Refurb
So if you replaced the wheels with a saw-blade would you get a sawtooth wave?
No.
That’s honestly kinda funny
Nice! Probably a dull saw wave.
They are all rather sawtooth like before the filtering capacitors.
Not sure. But if you replaced them with grinding wheels for sure you would have an organ grinder!
Thanks for this fun video that demystifies the tone wheel for me. What a fascinating instrument! Recently inherited a 1961 B3 with the original Leslie cabinet. It's been in the same spot since 1961, very pristine condition now that it's been serviced. Moving it home now very carefully, and yes I'm going to be sure the tone wheel is locked down before moving.
cool inheritance:)
I used to build these and other Hammond organs in Chicago while I was going to DeVry. I worked at the Diversy Ave. plant in audio pre-test. What came to us at that point were the finished manuals with drawbars and stops. Our job in that department was to assure that every contact functioned and that the drawbars and stop produced the sounds they were supposed to make. There are a number of contacts for each key that had to make contact at the same time during a key being pressed.
I have not actually gone through all these comments until now.
How long did you work at Hammond? Did you ever work on assembling or calibrating the Tone Generator?
Thanks for the video. I just bought a Hammond T-212 today for $250. I just replaced the speaker on the leslie side of the cabinet, broken wire between connector and speaker cone. I'll be ordering the tone wheel oil tomorrow. All notes are working, but TWG is noisy. Tomorrow I'll be cleaning key contacts and tabs. I should have it all working in no time! Your video a big help, THANKS!
Thanks for posting this! Always wanted to know what the electric motor did when the starter button is pushed and this explains it all.
This is one of the coolest videos I've ever seen. Something about this is so damn cool. Can't imagine the talent and focus needed to design and bring something like this to life. Time to listen to some Deep Purple!!
Seeing inside the tone generator is like looking at the mind of God.
So you have seen the mind of God? Wow
@@kadendiggs9267
The distance between minds is the transverse of an electron.
Switch on - travel on - in space, the sounds of space - toward unity.
Electricity...
One suggestion: Make another video with the same Tone Genarator running, but this time, use two small paper squares (one per hand) that you will gently bring to the tonewheels just enough to generate a listenable tone. This way, we will be able to hear the tones generated by each tonewheel without having it slow down (generating a false tone).
Thank you.
There is never any contact between the tonewheel and the pickup. The concept is called the "Hall Effect". When a lobe of the TW gets near the magnetic pickup, a pulse is generated. This pulse is what generates the tone. The more lobes on the TW, the more pulses, and a higher tone is generated. Tones are there all the time that the generator is turning, pressing the key completes a circuit that lets the sound out.
the hall effect doesnt come into play here, only induction. unless you were to analyze the action going on almost down to a quantum level.
the workings of a hammond organ aren't much different from an electric guitar: the pickup consists of the coil, and it's magentized core. if a magnetic object moves nearby, the slight changes in the magnetic field induce a bit of current, that can be amplified. nothing fancy there.
however the electromechanical tone generator system really is a lovely piece of engineering in its own right, and quite a mathematical monstrousity.
the spectrum of frequencies generated, one for each note, are not individually tuned, but mechanical-mathematically derived from the speed of the central drive shaft. as a result the notes cant ever get out of being in tune with eachother, creating mathematically perfect harmonics. (the overtones of the draw bars are generated by dividing the frequencies, and cant go out of tune either)
An interesting point about the syncing between the harmonics. I read a theory that doing FM with analog oscillators would not work well due to imprecisions on the oscillators. "linear" FM is said to be best done using digital oscillators. By linear FM, I mean FM such that the fundamental frequency remains unchanged.
The Hall effect is a major part of metering electronic fuel injection as well
bobmann107
I agree that the frequencies generated by the wheels are locked together (mechanically) but to say they are perfectly in tune is simply not true. Each tone is in tune with its octave, for sure, but the twelve notes within an octave can only be approximately in tune with each other. Gears and tonewheels have an integral number of teeth so the ratios between the frequencies can only ever be rational, which is _not_ what is required for it to be perfectly in tune. It's the discrepancy that gives the instrument its characteristic sound.
I recently have been working on my 1960 M3 after taking the organ out of storage after 20 years. This had the front cover still on it so the insides are very clean. Tube checked and replaced as needed amp tubes. Hammond oil to left cup for scanner and motor, both middle and right cups had three doses of filling cup, that was Friday night. Saturday checked and had some squealing bearings so I left it alone. Sunday night so two days later: tonight, I realized that some heat might get the oil to flow better. After ten minutes of going up and down the generator on the bottom side slowly back and forth, I started the organ and had NO SQUEEALING!! When I shut down the generator it ran for 16 seconds until it stopped. I imagine this might be rare? but if your organ is squealing give it some loving heat! Johnne in Clallam Bay, WA..
That squeal is the TG begging for oil. The heat probably released some oil that was imbedded in the oilite bearings, and is a temporary fix. The ideal solution is to turn the TG on it's side and oil each bearing. This is easy in an M model, just unclamp the wire harness, unbolt the TG and lift.
If you do not want to do that, fill the oil cups a few times and wait a week or 2 for the oil ot get to the bearings. Heat will help here as well as it is possible that someone used something other than Hammond oil and it can gum up the threads.
There is a remote possibility that someone broke a oil thread at some point over the years.
Bottom line is to shut it down immediately if you hear it squeal, as it could cause bearing damage.
A great look inside a Hammond TG which up until today was only still pictures for me from a Hammond service manual. A nice touch for this video would be to put the out output of some of the pickup coils through an amp so we could hear the difference of sound as the pickup coils were being manipulated. I understand that this was a demo of a discarded TG but of course there would never be a reason to disturb the pickup coil settings of a factory setup Hammond unless you had to replace a coil which I suspect would be a very rare occurrence.
The Start and Run sequence has always reminded me of starting my old diesel Isuzu Trooper. Hit the glow plug before fully turning the key.
Hi there, BIG thanx for this vid!!
I got a M3, for nearly 8 years now. As i get it, it´s TG was not runnig very well as it was standing in an edge for 20 years, or so, unused (shame!), I cleaned it, simply by fillig it with two cans of WD40, and flows out pretty dark at first. But then lighter and lighter.Since then, the M3 and it´s TG, works verry well, with regular oil service and,of course, regular playing..!
But I never, ever disasemble the TG - so it´s great to see it like this...:)
...only the huge genius of Mr. Laurens Hammond could conceive something like this. Thanks!!!
It is a matter of perspective; I see a wonderful work of art and a marvelous piece of mechanical genius.
Either way...it does sound great. doesn't it?
The porous bronze bushings you mention are know as Oilite Bronze.
Oilite is a registered trademark. There are many producers of that material.
Beautiful. Thank you for sharing. I had to partially take mine apart to fix some connections, but putting it back is a pain because I'm lazy to look at the docs so I do it all by memory.amazing instrument, can beleive I found it in a ditch for free. Actually I can, it was broken
thanks very much for this. the hammond voice is so distinctive; wondered for a long time what's behind the wood.
xlnt information delivery and video quality.
Thank you for the look inside. I am trying to solve a problem. This didn't help, but it did give good insight to how it is supposed to work.
great video, I never knew how the Hammond tone generator is constructed. I just wondered in earlier years when a Hammond Organ was part of our band equipment, why these instruments weighed around 200 kg :-D
Grazie Bob, per questi servizi, TG e TW grandissime invenzioni, che
rimarranno per molto tempo ancora e saranno sempre imitate.
Io dico però che la tecnologia di oggi qualcosa di buono ha fatto, grazie a Internet questi meravigliosi strumenti stanno vivendo la loro seconda vita, per la grande quantità di informazioni che li riguardano, e che continuamente ci scambiamo da svariato tempo ormai......contribuendo tantissimo a mantenere
alta la leggenda Hammond....ciao! Saluti da Roma.
I’ve owned, serviced & torn apart an RT-3, two B3’s, an L3 & a Porta-B. Only my porta-B had the same motor as yours here. As you pointed out, you Definitely don’t want to completely disassemble a tone generator!
The machining & labor costs today would be too astronomical to build a tone generator B3.
Thanks! These are the best images of the pickups I have seen
I was looking forever for a video like this! You made my year!
Nice video! Cool to see the tone wheels up close.
I found this super informational, thanks for doing this!
I don't understand any of it, nor the tone generator, nor the wheel. Only this: what an incredibly complicated piece of 'raw' electronics (is that the right word?) to produce such a magnificent sound. What an improbable creativity and prior trial-and-error, back then in the thirties. One also wonders if/how hammond organs did not break down often, due to the delicate components and 'moving parts' (whereas today nothing moves anymore in a modern Yamaha organ).
Sir Thank you so much for this. This is completely awesome.
still a marvel of mechanical science. and nothing screams like the real tonewheels. not any of the new emulating keyboards. close but no cigar... i have 2 perfect b3's, and a 147 and 122.... still love the sound of the wheels grinding up to a start................
@TheMic609 It definately needs oil! Fill each of the funnels to the top twice, wait a few days, then repeat. It can take a week or m ore for the oil to finally reach the bearings. I would not turn it on for any length of time if it is squealing...you run a risk of wearing out some of the bearings, or wore yet, causing one to seize.
If you are impatient, it is possible to unbolt the TG and oil each of the bearings from below. You will need something like a hyperdermic syringe with a long needle.
I wonder if the engineer(s) who designed this had any idea the impact it would have on the world of music. I know Hammond were mainly interested in recreating the sound of a pipe organ in a self contained instrument, could they have ever thought that sound would be in the center of genres like blues, funk, even full on rock and roll in certain circumstance.
Crazy how much labor it took to make our Hammonds.
I’m 65, have owned many Hammonds & repaired them since 69 or so. But I never had to disassembled my tone generators, so I wasn’t aware of all the individual dual wheel shafts. I thought there was the main drive shaft down the middle and 2 long shafts on either side, not all those individual shafts. Even more parts! I don’t know how Hammond ever made a profit!
I don’t know how Farfisa ever made a profit either! Open up a 60’s Combo Compact and check out all the circuit boards & the Incredible number of wires & cables running all over the place! I bought one new for $600!
You are right...I doubt that there will be many digital instruments playing after 78 years. Worst case is if electronic components like caps, resistors and tubes are not made. At that time, though, we still have excellent amp replacements like those made by Trek, and the tonewheels still make the tones.
The motors are repairable, BTW. Bearings can be replaced and they can be rewound if necessary.
as it was in those days,the organs were over engineered compared to organs made today. no doubt one of the reasons why so many Hammond organs are older then the people who love them
I've read this before. Explain how they are over engineered? Given vacuum tube technology in the 30s, I think this a clever design considering what was available at the time.
Finest instrument ever invented and with the late great Mr Lord playing one, wow
I just picked up a Hammond H-100 that showed up for free on FB Marketplace. It was in a garage and probably hadn't been oiled or used for 40+ years. The vinyl power sheath was crumbly. Now it's in my garage and I'm replacing the electrolytic filter capacitors on the power supply and the 5AR4 rectifier tubes are suspect. I've ordered solid state plug-in 5AR4 replacements for use in testing and may go back to 5AR4 tubes later. I'm going to replace the canned electrolytics with an axial cap array and relocate them off of the chassis (onto the cab wall) and connect them with longer wires. Two plastic keys are broken, so I need to figure out how to replace those. Overall, mine was pretty clean inside and had a mostly-full original oil tube inside. I've oiled the two funnels, the two motor tubes, and the vibrato well. When disconnected from the tonewheel main shaft, the motor spins and is silent. However, the tonewheel shaft acts "spring loaded" and, if I try to rotate it, it returns to its original position. I think something just after the 1st spring junction is binding it. The tonewheels look new and undamaged and most of them spin freely and have a bit of free axial play, which I understand is a good sign. I need to scan them carefully and identify the problem spots. When I opened it up, it looked like the thick brown felt blanket over the TG was factory placed, so I don't think it likely that any foreign objects fell into the mechanism. Possibly, some bits are dry-oil-residue glued together? Or, maybe a tonewheel sensor is out of position and binding a tonewheel (probably not that, since your video demonstrates that isolated tonewheels can jam without affecting others)? Anywho, anyone who has advice or ideas to share, thanks in advance! Thanks you, Rinoa, for the video and explanation!
When the TG shaft acts like that it is certainly because there are bearings that are gummed up and frozen. Sometimes, oiling the TG and waiting a couple weeks for the oil to get where it is supposed to be will fix things.
Whatever you do, do not force it. Turn gently back and forth. The main shaft has several spring couplings that make it feel this way. If you force it and the springs become dislodged, the TG will be trashed, as fixing is a major job.
If you can see the screws on the broken keys and something to glue to, I would get some 5 minute epoxy and glue the nroken keys in place. Access to these keys is another major job...take a look at the video I posted.
also look at the video on the tonewheel generator...that one in the video is actually from an H like yours.
" Right after shooting this, the TG was ceremoniously dumped into a steel scrap recycling hopper. "
breaks our hearts
You are obviously ignorant of the variety of TG that Hammond produced and the repair and maintenance of these devices.
Before I shot this video, I tried literally for 2 years to GIVE this away. Shipping was often an issue as this thing weighs a lot and it would cost a lot to ship anywhere. Also, there is ZERO need for anyone to replace an entire TG from an H model. This TG is not compatible with the other earlier consoles like the B,C,D,E, etc. with either components or in it's entirety.
I just did not have the room to store it any longer.
The knowledge that was uncovered and the show and tell value was worth it, rather than me disposing without the video.
Sorry, it's true and i don't would make a critic,
and i found it nice to show us everything.
Thank you for the videos before all ♪
@@bobmann107I bought a couple of old organs what's the idea of salvage in the power amps conversion to guitar amps. Will it be a bad idea to just throw that stuff away. I mean I don't think they're very valuable. In fact I think he only gave like $10 for one and the other they couldn't get rid of so they gave it to me it's a really small and pretty darn antiques
@@tomstulc9143 I am assuming that you are referring to Hammonds. I actually sold a few amps to someone who rebuilds them for use as guitar amps. It will take someone who knows what he is doing, though. If not that, just the tubes are worth some $$, look in ebay for estimates.
It also depends on the model of the Hammond, some are worth more than others.
Also depending on the model, there are other components that are worth some $$$, like the buss bars, keys, pedal boards, drawbar unit, etc.
@@melangesvolatils6506 It was not by choice, believe me. I would loved to have given these to someone, but it was not to be. Thanks for watching!
Imagine old mate Hammond sitting around after 10 beers and decides to invent a tonewheel generator lol
Thank you for sharing.
What I been searching for, not continuously, for at least several hours, is how to tune this after the capacitors are replaced, especially since non-standard values.
Cheers,
Adriel
There are 2 ways to calibrate.
You will need either an oscilloscope or a millivolt meter.
You can either change the capacitor values to achieve the desired output, or move the magnetic pickup rods in or out to achieve the desired value.
You may want to also look into installing a R/C network in those tones that need it.
You will need to procure a set of tone values and match your values to the chosen calibration curve.
hammond-leslie.info/KonsTGandTaperingData/
Go to "the organ forum" web site and ask for assistance. There are a lot ov very competent and helpful people on that forum.
This is a tedious process, and difficult to perform with the TG installed as half the pickups are at the back and hard to reach.
Also the tiny locking screws for the pickups are easily broken off if they are frozen in place, and there is no real repair for that other than TG dismantling.
@@bobmann107, thank you for your help.
Right now, have a Harbor Fright DVM (spelling intentional) and a Heathkit 7A that was my first re-cap. Since it is a comparison, the readings only have to be reliable, correct?
Okay, great knowing there are two methods. Maybe since I prefer having it performing best as possible, little of both. I do plan on marking where originally positioned so can return, plus, with it off, mark in red where it would contact, rather avoid dulling the tip and removing the lacquer..
Looked into the RC network just now, I have decided against, I want as much force out of it as possible (when unknowingly played it since 12 years of age, self taught, for a number of years until knew better, usually played at medium to full volume).
That was one of the resources looking for, the link is so very helpful! 😁 Here I thought all equal, rather, maximum value and generally in a similar slope.
I been a member of the forum for a very long time, lot changed, though not too long ago, asked for help and it was difficult.
I am aware of it being a bit tedious, but, I adore tedium.
Yes, I just found out the tone generator must be removed, any tips? Even with masking tape and a marker, the plethora of wires is terrifying.
Good to know about the locking screws, have SiliKroil in an oiler, so add some and let it soak while re-capping.
Cheers,
Adriel
@@adrielrowley On the Organ Forum there is a file in the hammond forum under topics of a number guide for the terminal strip. It helps when putting it back together.
Look here, there is a lot of information on the TG recalibration and cap replacement.
organforum.com/forums/forum/electronic-organs-midi/hammond-organs/735606-tonewheel-output-calibration
I have a video on keyboard removal. This is a part of the process of TG removal, as all the same wires are disconnected.
You could actually leave the TG in place, and take the keyboard out to access the TG. This would also mean that the pedal wires on the TG could stay in place.
@@bobmann107 Thank you for taking the time to find and reply to my questions, very much appreciated. 😁
Yes, I am making a mountain out of a molehill, sorry. I downloaded the file, see about getting it printed. That should save a lot of time.
My high strung mind is having a hard time reading through the thread, I rather have data like what is provided in the thread I shared... However, if have another relapse of being unwell, I have something to read.
Removing the manual also allow me to fix my mistake made due to inexperience (now know to slide protection in) plus clean and re-grease the strips.
Cheers,
Adriel
I wondered how the tonewheels worked. Now I know. toothed gears and magnetic pickups. They still sound amazing.
Very interesting. I was raised on a Hammond and spent a good portion of my life using it for my
living. About twenty years ago I bought a Hammond XB-3. I think that one of the chips failed and
now I can't find anyone who will fix it. Any suggestions? Gary Schneider....Alameda, California.
if no sound comes out of the old but working car speaker and the amp has some access you may want to look for a fuse area to see if something causing it to burn out (also called an 'open'), of course I am giving general information here which might not apply at all to a Hammond, I'm sure there are lots of people online who do know about them, good luck and hope your fix is simple.
EXCELENT PRESENTATION, in your opinion, what would be the reason to replace to a tone wheel generator/ over repairing the older that is not working. I know thats a broad quest but it seems to me that they are made like a tank. if not lubricated even a tank will stop.
If I understand what you are asking, there can be many reasons for a TG not functioning properly. Each reason has a degree of difficulty, and more importantly the model of the organ must be considered.
An M series, for example, has a street value around here of $0-$100. I would not think investing in replacement parts and the many hours of labor would be very cost effective.
Also consider that any parts would be removed from a donor organ. Just replacing the entire TG would be more economical in 99.9% of the cases.
Not to mention the fact that the difficulty factor of disassembling a TG and putting it back together rates about a 14 on a scale of 1 - 10.
The reason for the question. There was is Hammond E-112 model on the free ads on craigslist. the ad reads: Hammond E-112 turns on but won't play. A organ repairman said this organ needs a new tone wheel. Don't let this one go to waste. : end
Hello Bobmen, I hear your the Doctor of Hammonds by many Hammond organ players, so here's my question, I just picked up an 1964 a100 clean condition. Very clean,
For around $550 from a Lutheran church out here in Texas a small little town, moving forward, getting the Organ home come to found out tones are missing in the up and down Manual was hoping it was a simple wiring Attachwirein issue, but then I had message a guy name Peter who was kind enough to give me some General advice from TH-cam, you may know him or saw him on TH-cam, not to question his Knowledge, But getting a second opinion, And I would appreciate your expertise on the matter, moving on, the up and down keys on first drawbar on both Manual 49 51 keys have no sound.
second drawbar out on both Manual no sound on 28- 30 D&E almost all drawbars tones are out on both Manuals a couple of keys that is, The exact keys on up and down are not play tones, I would appreciate any help And expert advice you can give me as for as what I'm up against here, Would very much be appreciated.
Note: it's only the white keys that are out,
The last drawbar out plays all keys.
thanks Bobmen!
Felt like I was watching an autopsy of a loved one.
I have a CV/3 fitted with Trek III percussion that does 2nd, 3rd and 5th harmonic. clean as can be and I pit a hotter tube in the Leslie so it distorts at lower volume. and all new caps and rebuilt scanner done by a pro.
Jeez, it seems to be a huge clock mechanism and its maintenance must be pretty expensive. I'm glad that digital electronics is able to copy the best bit of it and future electronics will be able to salvage even more out of it.
Quite the contrary. I have a Model A that was built in 1935 and is still working. A few drops of oil every year and it will be still working for my grandkids. That electronic keyboard will never last that long. The generator is the one part that seldom needs attention. While the sound has been imitated electronically, it has yet to be duplicated.
Electronic keyboards should last even longer, than mechanics, because only some parts, such as electrolytic condensers might get old and then need to be replaced.
I bought a Roland Kbd some 35 years, ago. It is still like new. I have to use a sledge hammer to disable it... :)
The now 81 year old Hammond Model A is a piece of equipment that will last for another 81 more years to come and is serviceable. Like other Hammonds, it's place is in studios next to that grand piano, for situations when true sound is desired, whether it is jazz, soul, progressive rock, pop or gospel. Your Roland might last physically, which is most unlikely, but the sounds are unusable unless you're trying to sound like early Phil Collins.
I find your assertion that somehow the sound from a tonewheel is timeless, but that a sound from an electronic synth from the 80s is dated, and limited to only playing 1980s music. Piano is still really popular and I think over 300 years old? It's subjective whether a given sound is not timeless. To me, the classic detuned pad on vintage synths is still relevant. Maybe the 808 cowbell is a bit dated, but some people still use it. My point is that people sometimes resurrect older synth sounds, and I am glad for it.
Thank you very much for the information and the demonstration. Great job.
I greatly admire geniuses playing Hammond style's on clones, although it is more about their flawless techniques than a Hammond sound. Most emulators and Hammond style synths are not creating a sound of a tone wheel generator. I had a case of a Hammond player asking me to replace a tonewheel generator in his Hammond with Hammond's oscillator board. He was back in a week and begged me to put his old tonewheel generator back. Is is a true story. I was absolutely not surprized.
I agree 100%.
I do own a Viscount Legend. I must say that the sound reproduction is remarkable.
Keep in mind that 80% of the "Hammond Sound" is a direct result of the speaker.
People spend too much time chasing that sound, when it really only exists in their own mind.
I have had dozens of all models of Hammond come thru the shop, rebuilt dozens, and listened to hundreds.
They all sound different to some degree.
@@bobmann107 They do, however an amount of harmonics of a tonewheel is practicaly infinite and Hammond's genius was on flltering and mixing those harmonics. Although it is theoreticaly possible to build an immitation of tonewheel using electronics they do fall short of quality. I will not even try to discuss seven contacts under every key in Hammonds, or a fact of using vacuum tubes. Speakers were a masterpiece in years 1950-1980. People were fascinated with electronics. I still have original Eminnence speakers, built like a tank and sounding perfectly.Leslie was a superior company and I agree that a big percentage of Hammond sound was a result of their perfection in sound engineering. Too bad that these times are gone.
Excellent video Thomas, thank you, much appreciated bro.
Faraday’s Law of Induction is in play not Hall effect. Hall effect is a differential across a conductor. Faradays law of induction is the change (caused by the lobe on the tone wheel. ) in a magnetic field that is transmitted as an electric field into the actual wire in the coil surrounding the magnet. An electric guitar works the same way.
I just picked up a Hammond T582c today.. I have a lot of mechanical noise on mine, But I oiled it very liberally. If it hasn't been oiled in some time, Could it take over night to soak in and oil each bearing????
You are comparing apples to oranges. Totally different sounds, totally different instruments, and totally a matter of personal preference.
These organs have been making music for 70+ years now, and will be still goung for another 70+ years. I have a Model A that was built in 1935 that still functions and sounds great.
Your digital organ will be obsolete or unrepairable and in a landfill in a few years, and the Hammonds will still be playing.
Thanks for looking at my channel.
I share ur opinion - I own a C2 from 1950, still serves me well, but those new digital jokes will see the end of days pretty sooner.
we were scrapping model As 20 years ago because you couldn't reinsert the keyboard bus bars after removing them to clean them, the motors were failing, and coils were opening on the generator. they definitely won't still be going 70 years from now. there are no replacements for the keyboard parts, the generator components and no replacement motors. there are "clonewheels" from the 1970s which are still going such as the Korg CX3 and plenty of digital synths from the 80s are still working fine.
Sounds like you had one Hammond that you could not fix. This does not mean that all Hammonds will be scrapped anytime soon. My 1935 Model A still works just fine...83 years later. I also know of many more keyboards that had to be scrapped because of component and keyboard failures that made them irreparable or not economically feasible to do so.
Buss bars can be tricky to insert. You should have asked someone who knows how to do it to show you.
Never seen a TG coil fail, although I have heard it can happen. Trek products sells a replacement tone device in those rare cases.
Any motor can be rewound. The motor in the Hammond has no brushes to go bad.
Never seen a TG "go bad" either, unless it was trashed on purpose. Only parts that come in contact with each other are the bearings and shafts. If properly lubed, these will last indefinitely as the shaft actually rides on a microscopic layer of oil...as does any bearing/shaft assembly.
And a clonewheel still sounds like a clonewheel, if that is important to you.
Please, if you run across another Hammond that you cannot fix, donate it to someone who can fix it.
These instruments are definitely not for everyone. I personally like a real organ with 2 keyboards and foot pedals rather than a keyboard. I had a top-line Yamaha Clavinova for a while. It is truly an electronics engineering marvel. I sold it because I preferred my old C2.
I appreciate the mind-boggling engineering, sheer beauty, and authentic sound of a clean $14,000-$20,000, 400 pound Hammond B3. An expert aficionado like you with a discerning ear can suss out a digital SKX Stage any day of the week. Kudos. However, gigging organists aren't serving at the pleasure of aficionados with discerning ears. They are playing for drunk horny people who wouldn't know the difference. So logic demands that I go with the 40-pound digital rig and save thousands in cost, tens of thousands in Chiropractic bills, and enough $$$ saved to get a new digital rig 10 years from now. The tech is only going to improve.
@noahjm10 This system is simple. Strings carry oil from that trough to the bearing via capillary action. The string is simply wrapped around the bearing, which is porous. Don't get too concerned about over-oiling. Worst that can happen is that the trough will overflow and make a puddle under the TG. Fill the funnel to the top, let it drain, then fill it again. Do this anually. Ten drops is not enough.
this is such an intricate instrument. thanks for the video!
Who would know!
Amazing! 🎹🎶🔊👍😉
Jackie Davis playing the Hammond. The tune is "Jumpin' Jackie"
Thanks for looking.
PS...my Dad was born in Wuppertal...;)
Truly fascinating! Thank you 😊
It would be fun to make a huge tone wheel from an old steel merry-go-round, a 2-stroke motor (muffled, of course) on a rubber tire contact drive, a large loudspeaker with a wonker of a magnet converted to act as a pickup and a modest p/a system to amplify it. I’d watch that video. Heck; maybe I’ll make that video after I pay my insurance premiums and buy the dog some ear muffs ; )
Excellent video, and thank you for de-mystifying the mysteries of the TG. While you were in there did you happen to notice how hard it would be to replace a damaged/missing tonewheel? I assume the entire shaft would have to be pulled out, meaning all wheels and partitions would have to be removed (basically the whole TG). Or is there an easier way?
I have never replaced one myself, so I cannot speak definitively. I have heard people say that they have replaced them, I would think that it would be rather involved, as they would have to be removed from the top, meaning lots of unsoldering. Also, there are several configurations of TW so one would need to be sure replacement is the same.
dangit! Anyway, the power may be other than 60HZ; for example European power is 50HZ. The other thing is that the starting capacitor may be going bad; this will prevent the TG from reaching full speed. Now that I think about it, there is one other thing, and that is if the TG has not been properly oiled it may be dragging.
Nice.... The H-Generator I've got sittin' over by me has two drum-type vibrato scanners... but same design with the red solid plastic mylar caps.....
Great video....
5 stars! :))
INdeed it does. The tone of it brings chills to my spine. Still reminds me of a gear box though. :op
Dear, is it possible to put more drawbars at a M3 model? I was thinking to adapt drawbars taken from another M3. Maybe in a box, externally... but i don't know if is it possible, talking about the eletric part.
@wandov8 What is the purpose for more DB? More tones or the ability to have 2 sets per manual like a console? The former would be something that I have never heard done...the latter could be theoretically done with the proper switching. I would guess that you could have a switch with 9 poles that would allow switching from one DB set to the other.
The H series does have 2 additional DB, but the H's TG also has more tonewheels.
Look up the schematics to the M3 to see what is involved.
bobmann107 I had an organ go out of tune once because it had a poorly lubricated TG (that was of course immediately after I bought it, and before I had any oil to properly lubricate it). The extra friction slowed down a few of the wheels such that two or three keys (on a single drawbar) produced wavering and noticeably low (more than a half tone) pitch. Of course, the TG also made an awful noise whenever it was switched on, so I didn't play it much until I fixed it. Now that's all fixed and it's back in tune though!
Uncertifieduo Flight Instructor
Yes they are amazing alright, and so streamlined in their function. I have Hammond and Wurlitzer electromechanical organs and I'm hoping to be able to find a simple way to add individual volume controls to each of the tabs on my Wurlitzer electrostatic reed organ so that it can be as versatile as a Hammond. Wurlitzer used reeds as tone generators not as audible sound, but instead the each reed fluttering in front of a pick-up acted like a constant varying capacitor. Google Wurlitzer 4600 Series.
The Tone Generator operates on the simple theory of FM.
(Frikkin' Magic...;)
Does anybody know how a Hammond organ generates so many different tones with the wheels it has?
I would understand it without drawbars (number of keys equals number of tone wheels). But because of the drawbars it seems to me you need lots and lots of more wheels. How does that work.
Great. Thanks!
Hi, what the drawbars do is they mix individual sounds together. So as an example if you have A 440Hz as a pivot tone there is also A2 880 and A3 1760 etc mixed in. so the 8' drawbar just ads more of A2 and 4' drawbar more of A3 etc. You don't need extra wheel for the aliquot as it's already there.
Jos Jong the tonewheels generate every single note on the organ, right? And essentially, they are just volume potentiometers. So, pull the 8’ One all the way out, you get ‘piano pitch’ across the manual concerned. Draw the 16’ and you get an octave below...4’ an octave up, 2’ an octave above that. Now, the harmonics come from mixing in different notes. Vary they volumes of each and you get a different tone quality. For example, pull all the white tonebars and it sounds flute....add in harmonica and it gets brassier. Some fabulous effects are possible.
Interesting video but ouch! that was rough on the tonewheels and pickups... There is a finite number of TGs in the world, and they are not getting in better shape, we must care for them.
This was from an H model, and not interchangeable with one of the more desired A,B,C,D, etc models.
I had several of these over the years out of the H that had entirely too many other issues to rescue. I would have spent hundreds of $ on the orgen and weeks of work only to have to give it away, as no one wants these models in this area. I offered parts up for free, and after years I gave up and scrapped them. Sad, but this the nature of these particular models.
@@bobmann107 ah. I see. Well then, having known, I would probably have been interested in buying one of them. I know the h series was a monster, but the tg would have been good for Hammond Frankenstein project
@ZmajSnoshaj
Maybe you haven't heard of me but I've been repairing Hammonds since the late 1980s. You're right - I don't have any videos of my work up on TH-cam, but I do have a lot of photos of my repair and restoration projects on my Facebook page. I used to be really active in MITA back in the mid to late 1990s, but I didn't see the justification for annual dues. I may actually join again soon though. I'm getting ready to put my website back up. Will let you know when I do.
Ok...I have a question. I have a 1962 L-102, and it's been neglected for many years, but I've oiled it every week, per the local organ technician, until now it's perfectly quiet whenever it's turned on.But It's really sharp. I thought when I got it last month, it was because it was oiled improperly by the previous owner. But no matter what I've tried, it's still sharp. Is there anything I can do to bring the organ back into pitch?
The mechanical tone generator will still be working long after digital instruments. There are no integrated circuits, RAMs or ROMs to become obsolete. Just keep the bearings oiled and as long as the motor does not burn out all will be fine and readily repairable.
omg why grind on those tone wheels ?
Sounds like you did not bother to read the description. This was a learning exercise to see just how much contact can be made before sound qualith is compromised. THIS WAS A SCRAP TG!!!!! Right after shooting the video the TG was dumped in the SCRAP HOPPER!!!
I would have salvaged the alnico rods on those pickups
How did they get the correct gear ratios when the 2^(1/12) is irrational?
They had no choice but to round off to the nearest whole gear tooth.
This is part of what makes the Hammond sound unique; it is not perfect.
hi bob man,
i have an M 101, and until about a week ago it was running fine. I have a feeling one of my room mates might have tried to turn it on without knowing the procedure.
When I turn it on, i hear the wheeel start to spin, and it seems like its gonna work, but there is just no sound. any tips? where should i oil it? what kind of oil?
thanks,
-dennis
Does pressing a key move the pickup close to the wheel to pick up the sound, or does it close a circuit to send the sound on from the pickup?
Once the TG is calibrated, the pickups are locked in place. When you press a key, there are 9 contacts that complete the circuit. I posted a video about the key contacts that you may be interested in.
Wicks on a Hammond Tone wheel Tone Generator? Their names are Louis, Adolphe, and John, not! For these brothers built affordable pipe organs! Hammond used to be an electromechanical organ (before transistors), no wonder many of these are still quite playable, being a well oiled, such as this one is?
A hammond runs off a synchronus motor, and will rotate at the correct speed if supplied with 60Hz power. If it is out of tune it is one of 2 things; incoming power is at something other than 60
What’s the other thing?
@wandov8 The Tone Generators are diffent, B3 to M3. Keyboards are totally different, even apart from the number of octaves. Look up "Keyboard Tapering". There are resistance wires inside the keyboard that shape the tones.
An M3 will never be a B3.
Look up "Foldback" which involves the altering or rearranging of tones in the keyboard.
Note that both organs have 9 DB per keyboard.
What you stated is like saying the crutial difference between a Corvette and a Cobalt is only the dash board.
@bobmann107 Thanks i filled the funnels with oil and it works now im kinda lucky to have found a tube of oil attached to the inside of it so i used all of that Thanks
Mike
I know absolutely nothing about organs and organ repair, but I would think you would/could set the pick up rods by using a piece of paper between the pick up rod and the wheel. Slide the rod up, sandwiching the the paper between rod and wheel and lock it down, with using off of course. That is how I set the coil pick up on mowers.
They are all different. The only way to do this is with either an oscilloscope or accurate millivolt meter.
The lower frequencies have more of a tolerance in movement that the upper...on the upper frequencies, .001" in the gap makes a difference
Besides, to access the pickups this way would be a real challenge!
Fascinating. THX
I don't understand why you spent over a minute from 5:41 jamming the pickup rods into the tonewheels. You had already demonstrated the clutch that operates in the event of a jam. The rods are not meant to touch the wheels. There's meant to be a gap and the optimum size of that gap is not as close to zero are you can get.
Fun for me. Just wanted to see what would happen.
So many people are paranoid about adjusting the pickups I thought it would be informative to see exactly what would happen on a SCRAPPED generator.
He Mr. Bobmann! Kind regards from germany! PLEASE tell me, whats the music in this video? It´s VERY cooool!
You can't see any damage on the tone wheels being touched/stopped with the pickup rod , but have you listened? That's what counts...
Its one of them electronic brains.
Stop grinding the wheels!!!!
It was grating on the nerves. All I could think was a disc head crash.
The scanners were removed before I shot the video. A future video will be the rebuilding of the scanner to stop that rattling noise.
I dont know where that background noise came from, there was nothing on in the shop. Unfortunately I have acute tinnitis, and have that kind of noise in my head 24/7...so I really did not notice it until it was brought to my attention. I will try the voice-over. Thanks for the comment.