Dance of the Engines || Leela vs Stockfish || TCEC Superfinal Season 17
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 เม.ย. 2020
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Leela Chess ZERO vs Stockfish
TCEC Superfinals GAME 16
Robatsch (modern) defence (B06)
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"If this is not winning then it's losing"
- You understand Leela, you're about to give up another pawn, it will be losing
- Only if I don't win!
- Yes, that's what... losing mean...?
Spassky vs Fischer - Chess Game 20, 1992 Match
-===-- th-cam.com/video/b52sQdYhweU/w-d-xo.html
It can be a drawn position also....so yeah, not a comic relief
Wow those past pawns at in the end equal material again
Grumf quote from 'Alan Ford' comic book.
0:00 Hello everyone
1:21 Completely new game
7:56 Dance of the engines
9:38 10:26 10:41 12:50 Nasty discoveries
10:05 20:04 Captures captures
25:49 It was in this position
That nickname tho xD
26:13 I want to congratulate everyone for lasting 200 moves
you sir are a man of culture
I see kripps community is leaking again xD
Btw Queen Capture 20:09 (But actually Rook)
Michael Jackson: I am the best dancer in the world
Agadmator: Hold my stockfish and Leela
Lmao😂😂
Spassky vs Fischer - Chess Game 20, 1992 Match
--- th-cam.com/video/b52sQdYhweU/w-d-xo.html
is alpha zero participate in this contest?
mujhyaman thakuria You don't really quite understand that meme do you? Why would Agad hold the engines? They’re the 2 actually doing the dancing, it doesn’t make sense. Perhaps some thought is needed…
@@ChessMC make your videos more interesting
23:48 Agad repeated so many moves that he started to repeat his own
lmao! 😂🤣
This black king has steel balls penetrating alone the opponent territory with only one move to return home . Then he did it again . True warrior
Emperor AlHasan That shows how engines are unbelievable . Coming in front a queen and a rook with no space just blows my mind . Just wow
Yah this is scary
In my club we used to refer to such a manoeuvre as "the Rambo variation"
nothingisviridian Good name since Rambo was almost suicidal like those black king moves in endgame 😂😂😂
Leonidas
"Engines don't have a sense of humor"
*resigns half a move before guaranteed checkmate*
That felt like watching all of Lord of the Rings movies in one go.
with the black king entering deep into the enemies territory to achieve victory. where have i seen that before?
THANK YOU we are finally agreed. LOTR is boring
@@CalmaxFilm well i think your lego videos are boring but that doesnt mean millions of other people dont like it, same thing with lord of the rings.
Is leela the opposite of anish giri?
They need to make Anish-Zero that would only go for draws even in winning positions.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Schroif yes, and also draw losing positions. Otherwise it just sucks lol
Haha
Don't get over excited.she myt win this SUFI!
This was the chess equivalent of watch grass grow.
Agreed, very boring this one.
Talk about disgusting engine lines, that took the cake
They say AIs have no personalities, yet leela acts like a stubborn warrior that prefers to die than draw
Well I understand that it used to be the other way - she'd draw all the time, so they tweaked her so that she wouldn't. Maybe they'll weaken the tweak a bit, now.
Yeh so that's not how she is programmed , don't speak if you don't know
A true Japanese warrior
Stockfish reminds Agadmator with his own games
This is a huge improvement for Stockfish
Such a legend
No, leela does with her looses in drawn games
@@footballfanboy4274 Yah u r absolutely correct
@@footballfanboy4274 or maybe it thinks it's playing a human hence the continuation.. hoping for a screw up with imprecise play.
wow, *Engines doesnt have any sense of humor* i just cried and laughed at the same time
you are an excellent subscriber, you watched till the very end :D
Don't cry. They can't be mad at us. They can't destroy us.
@@ihateorphans buddy u didnt understand me at all
Which proves that you are not an engine.
@@Taboo08 I did understand what do u mean, but I went too far
18:07 if agadmator commented my games
Eldor503 😂
"Pinning it from behind"
This is the underrated comment of the year.
I'm glad I'm not the only non-excellent subscriber.
Leela's my hero
She may end up losing, but she'll never give up
Neither is stockfish. And he's also able to win 😉
@@mrqzo6521 seems like they're both able to win, since the series is tied
Anyways, my comment was just supposed to be a funny one, not the start of a fight over everyone's favorite engine 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@GustavoGplay no f u my engine better
She won't give up, unless it's to prevent a mate in 1.
But shes just absolutely trained to win. It appears as though even a draw is considered as something worse than losing by leela.
I wonder when the engines are moving around "dancing", stockfish (as black) maybe is using the 3 fold repetition rule to force Leela to weaken her position ever so slightly or having to accept a draw
I agree.
@@brettjones327 i dont think OP was talking about psychology, I think they were suggesting that SF is tactically employing the 3 fold repetition rule to exaust leela's options. e.g. forcing leela to play out her optimal moves and then have to shift to slightly sub optimal moves to avoid 3FR, leading to Leela's multiple and sometimes dubious pawn sacrifices at the end of the middle game "dance".
I agree, its not the first game that Leela looses this way. Rather than forcing, I think there’s just one variable not adjusted properly for the draw evaluation (considers a bad move better than a draw) on Leela’s program.
@@benoplustee Yeah I wasn't talking anything about the psychology of the game, purely that Stockfish was able to calculate that making those dancing moves would be advantageous for it
Kinda psychological battle, and between two machines! It's so exciting, a little scary though!
Thought I caught the smiley-face pillow yawning once during this one.
I think the human limit was what one writer called a “hundred ninety move monster”.
Is Leila’s behavior such that she’ll always lapse to a slightly inferior move, going for a full point when the position is balanced?
(In any case I did notice that, for all her pride going before a fall, Leila *did* manage to even out at least the *number* of Pawns again. We non-pros sometimes forget that even a throwaway extra Queen costs a Pawn!)
both of these engines have this behaviour - leela is trained by blunders (very simplyfied), thus it expects that the opponent can make a mistake and will play for it... stockfish has a setting called contempt, which means it tries to complicate positions if it sees it can lead to anything...
but that is not what happened in this game - if you check the archive in tcec and their evals - both engines were evaluating this as a draw until move 134. Rh2 (which is just a blunder by lc0) when stockfish's eval jumps from 0 to 1.53 and then to over 2 in the next move and to something like 6 in 5 moves and never comes back
Its worth mentioning that the time control for this event features only a 5 second increment. Perhaps leela blundered in time pressure?
All the neural networks have very inflexible evals. Leela thought it was winning on move 70, so she played like it was winning on move 140. Probably an artifact from training, where she would then go back and change her heuristics to evaluate the position correctly on move 70.
It was clear loss and all calculated. Leela didn't manage anything.
No its goal is to win and then draw so its calculations saw guaranteed wins of extremely slight possiblility long those pawn push lines which were wrong. Its neural network is still not adequately trained or lacking depth. The dance showed that it waited maximal time for mistakes on winning lines which stock fish would never fall for. Probably the 50 move without pawn push rule is too deep for training and analysis. The 50 move rule perfectly explains the exact time you would expect a neural net to fail
8 minutes in and the dance of the engines already started.... whoo boy here we go
The dance of engines is a very good phrase you should use it more often and make it yours👍👍👍 You have come so far agad from where you started. Cheers to you and all the best for future too👍👍👍👍
I really love it when Leela never give up checking the king while trying to hold the black pawn to promote, that's the spirit
This game is better than most of sitcoms..it had me rolling from ear to ear...
"..and their dance continues..",😆😆😆😅😅😅🤣🤣🤣🤣
Leela: i wanna experience the feeling of love! Like humans!
Designer: love always accompany with lost, you should first experience intentional lost in order to understand love.
Leela: program me to loose please
Designer: but leela, this is ....
Leela: do it, right now
Has Leela just passed Turing test?
Combinations have always been the most intriguing aspect of Chess. The masters look for them, the public applauds them, the critics praise them. It is because combinations are possible that Chess is more than a lifeless mathematical exercise. They are the poetry of the game; they are to Chess what melody is to music. They represent the triumph of mind over matter.
I got scholar mated today
@@user-fartsmella69 are u stockfishes grandfather?
@@sebastianaguirre6003 yeah, my son worked on it
Stop plagiarizing people and not quoting them
Hey @@user-fartsmella69 you're a real jerk, you know that?
What milestone do we have to reach to hear you play that guitar in the background?
Walking the King all the way down just to advance a pawn one square. Then all the way back and then all the fwd again to escort said pawn. I have a headache.
While the other king just chilling in the corner :D
When do we return to the human-on-human action of the Morphy Saga? Although I dont believe Morphy is a human
Morphy can go away for a while
I love those engines' games.
Havent watched this video yet but clicked instantly to come here. Go Fish!
Please please bring more of TCEC, more of Leela, more of engines and neural nets. They are sooo goood!!!!!!
Agadmator: "So, you want more computer chess games? Be careful what you wish for.." *maliciously rubs his hands
2:37 - Always good to capture an invisible enemy first.
we really appreciate this amazing patience Agadmator had to make such a video! you are the best! #agadmator
Engines doesn't have sense of humor.
That made my day.
And I watched on my TV and came here just to comment, and MY GOD 28 minutes but it didn't feel like that.
I think that best tactic for Stockfish would be to build a fortress even with white and wait, because Leela will always try to win it
Keep this good work going man..love your videos
"All of that dancing and not even reaching move 200, that's a little bit of shame."
I laughed 5 minutes nonstop :D
Hi agad! Continue this chess channel. Personally, your chess analysis helped me improve my games against my friends at school. Thank you and all the love from the phillipines!❤
Me: *forwards the video by 5mins*
The game:
most underrated comment
15:52 Rook moves diagonally 😂
The pawn pushing part at the end was very interesting
Thank you for entertaning us in these dark times antonio, and if you please can show a classic it will be really appreciated.
Given that Leela has the rule that draws are not allowed Stockfish put her in zuzgwang by move 40. Perhaps the longest zuzgwang ever produced.
Amazing stuff
Those engines danced for half an hour!!!
That's a very nice quote by Steinitz
Flipping the board & launching pieces everywhere is the most flattering and satisfying form of resignation.
It is you Agad who deserves to be congratulated, thank you so much for the great effort you put in this game
Amazing game!
Wow. The thought of 196 games in a row consisting of 196 moves each.
That game was actually fun to watch
"both of them eager to win the game" ...interesting statement as they "dance". gotta love engine chess.
Threatening nasty discoveries is now my new favorite phrase.
Imagine playing a completely drawn game, offering 3-fold-repetition opportunities all the way through, your opponent declining the draw until they have the water squeezed from their stone, playing it out 196 moves, being one move away from delivering mate... and 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘯 they resign, on 𝘺𝘰𝘶𝘳 turn.
What a brat.
Liked just for the quote of steinz... Thats more than enough... Missin morphy engine saga though...
Agadmator: All of that dancing and not even reaching 200, such a shame
Me: lololololololol
Wow, chess is just like life..when u are giving your 100℅ to win or to get something you can also lose by doing some mistakes
I think I understand why engines are so much stronger than humans now. They are immune to being hypnotized, while humans are not.
Legend has it they are still dancing…
Engines: I do know why I repeated that.
Agad: I don’t known why I repeated that.
I had fallen asleep for a while, but managed to wake up after those pawn pushes had been made and SF had a winning position
13:29 "The dance continues, as the title would suggest"
Haha 😂
I fell asleep briefly, woke up again and hadn’t missed anything.
I hope one day I will have stockfish's confidence
Always fight for the win!
50 move draw rule is too deep for the neural network to be easily trained on. It can dance and wait for mistakes for best lines. But when one 50 move delay only lead to another 50 move delay and so on, we find where it's very hard to properly train a neural net due to rarity of positions for that situation. 3 move repetition is much easier to avoid while still having proper look ahead. Think about it. The weak spot of Alphazero also likely lies exactly here...
Agadmator analyzing this game thoroughly
Me watching this game completely
A lot of people also watching this game completely
.
.
.
.
Two engines laughing in the back silently.
leela values activity and king safety with little regard for pawns, stockfish values material, with little regard for king safety.
Total Respect for Leela. This engine really deserves all the best.. Bobby Fischer style - There is no Draw. It's all or nothing.. Once more,RESPECT
Agadmator : AND ONLY NOW COMES..
Me :Finally!
Agadmator : King to b1...
What an unbelievable game and your analysis is amazing. I'd like twice if I could 👍👍
those discoveries are always so nasty
Fan From India Agad..
Keep The Cool Work Up!
The live evaluations that Leela and Stockfish gave throughout the game are fascinating. www.tcec-chess.com/archive.html?season=17&div=sf&game=16
Stockfish gave an evaluation of 0.00 already on move 37, and all the way through to move 134. Just a couple of moves before that, Leela had finally also decided that it was a draw. Still, she didn't go for a move that would have led to a drawn endgame. But at that point, all of a sudden they both saw something, and the evaluation started to be in black's favor.
Almost fell asleep those dance moves are hipnotizing
AGADMATOR!!!
20 years later...They are still dancing. Leela should be known as the dancing queen. Lol 😂 You can dance, you can jive...🎼🎤
The best move on the game was the Pin from behind 😂
This position give new life and new meaning of the romantic dances of two engines.
After couple dance move, i just want to see how agad maintained his sanity to made this video...
Was watching this live, got bored. Glad you decided to cover it, looked like it would eventually get interesting
Agadmator, pls show us some Narayanan.S.L vs. Alireza Firouzja. Nara was killing it this series, he was playing way better than his rating.
The dance is merely seeing all best winning lines by letting the opponent make a mistake. The decisive move will not come until all those possibilities are exhausted and best winning chance is to try a more narrow win route. A human would be wise to do the same dance if playing to win with maximal statistical odds
I just saw ur last video, and here we go again :v
WOW This game is definition of "improving position" little by little to a losing endgame.. At the end, Leela was cought on she's own trap..
Great video agadmator, but that was the most painful chess game I've ever seen analysed . . . A0 & Leela games were so usually so beautiful I didn't think they (Leela) was capable of such a grinding, boring, drawn out yawnfest . . .
Game to know by hart..from move 1 to move 45 723...
Did you edit out the last mouse-click in the end? Video felt incomplete.
"If it is not winning, it is losing" (#Agadmator, 2020)
this guy does not sleep
I would love to see the tactics behind the dance of the engines. They seem like mindless rook and queen moves, but I bet they are actually deeper than anyone can imagine.
I can't believe I watched that whole video. Well almost
My opponents must be using engines because they always resign one move before checkmate
16:59 "If this is not winning then it's losing." Agadmator 2020
It was 190+ moves because, SF did most of the attacking with the king, I think that was quite funny.
Engines are better than humans simply because they can play a nearly inexhaustible supply of waiting moves and allow the human to die of old age first.
Not even reaching move 200 is a shame. Agad oh agad!
It only makes sense that Leela plays the way she does since she is a neural network learning from real humans. Her continuing to refuse the draws and opting for less promising (maybe loosing) lines is just a byproduct of the games of the people who "taught" her how to make such decisions in the first place.
Leela doesn't learn from humans. It's purely self play.
@@thebighectares You are totally right. I have just looked it up. My confusion came from the fact that I have watched one of Agadmator's older videos and he mentioned that everyone can contribute to the Leela project but as it turns out he obviously meant with computing power of one's own PC and not that the games played against her are being added to her knowledge database. Thank you for clearing that up! Cheers!
I can't believe I watched it all 😄
That was exhausting
Draw offer is the new zugzwang. Damn!
Can someone explain the d6 capture at 6:37 how can the pawn capture behind where the piece is or is that just a visual mistake