Asking Games Workshop to support the models isn't unreasonable. The bloat is an issue they introduced, and it's their responsibility to find a creative solution. Meanwhile, I'm stuck giving up shelf space for models I can't play with or sell.
The legends stuff is a lame solution to a GW problem. They should support their models , period. Wouldn’t take them much to do so. They just don’t want to risk third parties making money on discontinued models. Also , trying to down play legends is intellectually dishonest. Trashing people’s investments , crapping on customer good will isn’t good. Comparing this expensive hobby to other more expensive hobby doesn’t make this one not expensive. Just because something is worse doesn’t mean another bad thing is now somehow good. I’ll even say this , we never wanted balance at the cost of all the flavor and our armies.
I think we all know what Legends is about in truth - a cynical move by GW to force players to buy, buy and buy again. GW is happy to be completely merciless and it makes me sick.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I quibble a bit with the malice so often applied to them, in that; we hardly need excuses to buy more stuff in this thing. Lol
Removed my whole army. Bike Khan, Bike stormseer, bike technarine, two bike command squads, bike squads, 3 types of landspeeders, sniper squads and 5 man tacticals in razorbacks . I can not use them. In return l got a detachment without models to run it, SW run better WS detachment then WS. 7 years of every spare model to buy the models . I don't know where this "you can just play legends" comes from. In my country people play at a store and Legends is another word for illegal. If it is not matched played you will not play. I know that, because l tried it in 3 different stores. Stuff is bloated for marines? The cool stuff had to be removed? Is that why scouts had to be divided in to scouts, infiltrators , incursors, elikinators and reavers? To limit "bloat"¿ ah and l can't just buy new stuff. Nevermind GW decided to remove bikes and not replace them with primaris versions , but it also took me 7 years to build my army. I am not going to buy ultramarines for another 7 years , just so that maybe after those 7 years , l get to play an army l don't want to play , waiting another 3-9 years for a streched release of bikes.
I don't understand this thought process I keep seeing of "I don't want options". I get that having hundreds of datasheets can make it difficult for a new person to decide on his first list, but that's a temporary issue and there are thousands of people online who already make resources for parsing it all and choosing units. And if you as a space marine player want to limit yourself to 5-10 datasheets, the existence of the others in no way impedes that decision. By asking GW to limit the options to those 5-10, all you're doing is punishing the people who want to run the more obscure stuff and making the game feel more monotonous for literally no benefit to yourself. The only real argument I can see for keeping the game lean is that it's easier for people to remember the rules for their opponents factions. But even that is retarded because the only way you can reasonably expect the average hobbyist to memorize the whole game is if every faction's rules are only a couple pages long. The legends rules is only kicking the problem down the road a year or 2 because every subsequent edition that comes out will make those rules less and less usable. And asking people to just relegate themselves to play 10th for the rest of their lives lest they pack their armies away and start fresh is unfair to the people who put hundreds of hours into them. Finally this "well just play with your friends" argument is such a cop out. Not everyone has an active group of friends they can setup homebrew games using out of date rules. A lot of people rely on FLGS to be able to engage with the hobby at all. Good luck walking into a game store and convincing a stranger to play with rules picked out of multiple editions because the rules can support one of your armies but not both at the same time.
> I don't understand this thought process I keep seeing of "I don't want options". Thats not the idea, which is why you cant comprehend it - people want LESS PAPERWORK just to be able to play.
@@leovaeg Except no matter how many or how few datasheets there are, there's only ever as much paperwork as there are units you want to take. So the people who want less paperwork still get it by just not taking as many units. It's still a matter of options
@@squekeyman The problem with the Space Marine codex since 8th edition is it has doubled the number of units while doubling the redundancy. I agree that I don’t want to see stuff go away, but ever since the introduction of Primaris Marines we’ve needed to solve this issue before the codex just becomes too massive. It isn’t a pleasant solution but at some point the bandaid needed to be ripped off.
My issue with legends in 40k currently is that i don't think they have points values. I really wish the legends datasheets were in the 40k app like they are in the AoS app. Hopefully those stay there beyond the point when they actually go into legends. I like the idea of the app catering to the casual as well as the competitive side of the hobby
@@piotrjeske4599 That Legends are entirely neglected is nothing new, but they have datasheets and point costs. Often bad datasheets and bad points, but both exist.
I missed when we not only had stats for units out of production but also stats for units that didn’t exist.
I think i addition of primaris marines was a mistake in my opinion. Should've just refreshed the tac old range like they did with chaos
Asking Games Workshop to support the models isn't unreasonable. The bloat is an issue they introduced, and it's their responsibility to find a creative solution. Meanwhile, I'm stuck giving up shelf space for models I can't play with or sell.
My friends and I play and enjoy early to mid 8th edition. We didn't like 9th or 10th. We'll see what the next one's like, but may go back and try 3rd.
The legends stuff is a lame solution to a GW problem. They should support their models , period. Wouldn’t take them much to do so. They just don’t want to risk third parties making money on discontinued models.
Also , trying to down play legends is intellectually dishonest. Trashing people’s investments , crapping on customer good will isn’t good. Comparing this expensive hobby to other more expensive hobby doesn’t make this one not expensive.
Just because something is worse doesn’t mean another bad thing is now somehow good.
I’ll even say this , we never wanted balance at the cost of all the flavor and our armies.
I like those takes. We may bring them up on the pod.
I think we all know what Legends is about in truth - a cynical move by GW to force players to buy, buy and buy again. GW is happy to be completely merciless and it makes me sick.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I quibble a bit with the malice so often applied to them, in that; we hardly need excuses to buy more stuff in this thing. Lol
Removed my whole army. Bike Khan, Bike stormseer, bike technarine, two bike command squads, bike squads, 3 types of landspeeders, sniper squads and 5 man tacticals in razorbacks . I can not use them. In return l got a detachment without models to run it, SW run better WS detachment then WS. 7 years of every spare model to buy the models . I don't know where this "you can just play legends" comes from. In my country people play at a store and Legends is another word for illegal. If it is not matched played you will not play. I know that, because l tried it in 3 different stores. Stuff is bloated for marines? The cool stuff had to be removed? Is that why scouts had to be divided in to scouts, infiltrators , incursors, elikinators and reavers? To limit "bloat"¿ ah and l can't just buy new stuff. Nevermind GW decided to remove bikes and not replace them with primaris versions , but it also took me 7 years to build my army. I am not going to buy ultramarines for another 7 years , just so that maybe after those 7 years , l get to play an army l don't want to play , waiting another 3-9 years for a streched release of bikes.
Primaris bikes were introduced in 2020 during 9th edition
I don't understand this thought process I keep seeing of "I don't want options". I get that having hundreds of datasheets can make it difficult for a new person to decide on his first list, but that's a temporary issue and there are thousands of people online who already make resources for parsing it all and choosing units.
And if you as a space marine player want to limit yourself to 5-10 datasheets, the existence of the others in no way impedes that decision. By asking GW to limit the options to those 5-10, all you're doing is punishing the people who want to run the more obscure stuff and making the game feel more monotonous for literally no benefit to yourself.
The only real argument I can see for keeping the game lean is that it's easier for people to remember the rules for their opponents factions. But even that is retarded because the only way you can reasonably expect the average hobbyist to memorize the whole game is if every faction's rules are only a couple pages long.
The legends rules is only kicking the problem down the road a year or 2 because every subsequent edition that comes out will make those rules less and less usable. And asking people to just relegate themselves to play 10th for the rest of their lives lest they pack their armies away and start fresh is unfair to the people who put hundreds of hours into them.
Finally this "well just play with your friends" argument is such a cop out. Not everyone has an active group of friends they can setup homebrew games using out of date rules. A lot of people rely on FLGS to be able to engage with the hobby at all. Good luck walking into a game store and convincing a stranger to play with rules picked out of multiple editions because the rules can support one of your armies but not both at the same time.
There’s definitely way more than 5-10 data sheets of playable space marine units.
> I don't understand this thought process I keep seeing of "I don't want options".
Thats not the idea, which is why you cant comprehend it - people want LESS PAPERWORK just to be able to play.
@@leovaeg Except no matter how many or how few datasheets there are, there's only ever as much paperwork as there are units you want to take. So the people who want less paperwork still get it by just not taking as many units. It's still a matter of options
@@squekeyman The problem with the Space Marine codex since 8th edition is it has doubled the number of units while doubling the redundancy. I agree that I don’t want to see stuff go away, but ever since the introduction of Primaris Marines we’ve needed to solve this issue before the codex just becomes too massive. It isn’t a pleasant solution but at some point the bandaid needed to be ripped off.
It's also impossible to balance that many datasheets
My issue with legends in 40k currently is that i don't think they have points values. I really wish the legends datasheets were in the 40k app like they are in the AoS app. Hopefully those stay there beyond the point when they actually go into legends. I like the idea of the app catering to the casual as well as the competitive side of the hobby
they have points values. i play my Decimators every game even though the Defiler is significantly better than the mere 20pt difference would suggest.
They do. Legends has its own field manual.
@@weissraben4476 an unupdated one . Do you think regular bikes have the correct cost in legends? Or attack bikes, or any version of landspeeder.
@@piotrjeske4599 That Legends are entirely neglected is nothing new, but they have datasheets and point costs. Often bad datasheets and bad points, but both exist.