Zach Lowe on LeBron's Legacy and Who Should Win Finals MVP | The Bill Simmons Podcast | The Ringer
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- Bill Simmons is joined by ESPN’s Zach Lowe to discuss the NBA Finals, how winning the Finals would impact LeBron James’s legacy, and who is on the NBA Mount Rushmore.
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Bill’s ability to mention the Celtics in every podcast is pretty impressive.
Mr. Slickwordsmith agreed.
@Mr. Slickwordsmith kcp is bad
@@VAER671 I did know that
@Mr. Slickwordsmith check his career
@Mr. Slickwordsmith looks like Duncan hit a few more
Bill bringing up the Celtics is like Joe Rogan bringing up DMT 😭
Spot on lmfao
Zach Lowe just became my hero by bringing up the change of illegal defense having an underrated impact on the game. I argue that point all the time with my friends. It was huge. Players could get the ball, see the double coming, kick it out and get it back and go into their move before the defense could reset.
I just wish NBA would adopt FIBA rules. It would be the perfect blend of old school and modern basketball 🙏🏻
Pelaaja what rules does fiba have to make it different
@G-man nah, that whole 3 pt shot thing seems to have mattered a bit more. Appreciate the exaggeration hustle though.
I guess you haven't watched the two to three decades worth of games before the 3 pt line was invented.
It's not an underrated impact, it was a massive impact. Changed the game completely.
I am so happy Bill brought up how good Lebron was defensively in Miami. It's crazy how people forget that so quickly, he literally finished in the top 3 DPOY 2 straight years while also winning MVP and definitely got robbed of the 2013 DPOY title.
It hurts me on behalf of Lebron lol. In 2012 he should have been the first unanimous MVP ever but Frank Isola voted for Melo to spite Lebron and he missed it by 1 vote. Then the year after he played the perfect season like MJ and Hakeem. Won MVP, Finals MVP and they gave DPOY to Mark Gasol on the defensive 2nd team. Its actually a disgrace and history will remember that the NBA media shit on the greatest player of all time for no reason!
When will we get a Lowe, Simmons, and Russillo podcast!!??
Kevin O’Connor as well!!
knicks fan no
I bet Bill doesnt footnote Bostons title when Bynum and Ariza were hurt for LA.
Just had this same argument with a Boston fan last wk. they talk about perk missing game 7, I talk about Bynum missing the entire series and ariza missing most of the series.
Perkins is the most overrated player in NBA history.
Have you read his books? Bill footnotes everything.
I had this exact same thought! Pau arrived around the All Star break had 1/3 of a season Lakers blow thru the West and face a big THREE without Bynum and Ariza
@@nickmarlin194 why oh why so much vitriol!?!
Ahh. Back to the grantland days. Nothing better than Bill and Zach.
People forget bosh missed games 1-4 in that Celtics series in 2012
"I've never seen anything like Jordan" Neither have I, but I also haven't seen anything like LeBron
Good point! I would throw Shaq in there too
@@DontFearTheReeper24 Shaq shouldn't even be mentioned. Never had a commitment to being in shape. An underachiever.
Magic
@@iank3924 Never saw anyone like Magic either at that point but LeBron is a better athlete, scorer and defender then Magic. Magic was cold though and Top3-10 ever for sure (hard to rank when you include bigs)
@@ngc-fo5te That’s not what they are saying, they are saying someone who they have never seen before and Shaq is most definitely a player we hadn’t seen before or since really.
Bill, Just because the Heat Whooped your team's (Celtics) ass doesn't mean they're going to beat LA.
Russillo is realistically the only guy that can keep Bill in check
That's because he has massive arms and chest.
And dong
Pause
@@jamestrickingtonIII love russillo. Whenever Bill goes bats hit crazy with celtics takes Russillo always lands those subtle digs and barbs that stop Bill in his tracks, it's great
And isn't Russillo from Boston? He can just be professional
the biggest asterisk or footnote should be how Kyrie and Love were injured for the first series between the warriors and cavs
juanmaale are we foot noting 2019 too or it was just because Lebron lost we footnoting that?
MVP Season I’m not footnoting anything; to me all championships count. It just pisses me off that Bill always does that to discredit LeBron
juanmaale tbh, its the way how yhe league decided to suspend him after the game instead of making the call during that made it so controversial. They changed the call before the other game
S T this finals we watching right now Dragic isnt playing...in hindsight this was suppose to be a rollover.
Tank you Mr. Lows for putting a rest to this asterisk question!!!!!👏
Bill has the most uncanny ability to say something sarcastically or in jest, and everyone knows it but at the same time he holds it and sells it as the real thing. I am never going to look at AD the same way because of this; on a random pod with Russilio a few months back, he kind of joked that whenever AD goes down or takes a bump it could be bad, real bad. "Anthony Davis is down." - said in a soft matter of factly somewhat concerned Bill Simmons kind of way. Love it 😂🏀🏆
ive never heard simmons or anyone talk abt lebron losing Kyrie and/or Love for those finals and playoff runs but ALWAYS talks abt GS losing draymond for ONE game, and GS got blown out that game and game 6.. they were up 3-1 and lost their 3rd best player for one game...
S. Shephard bogut got hurt and we had no more rim protection for games 6,7,8 our bigs were Draymond & Festus Alizi
@@fmvp6892 bogut was barely playing those playoffs, and especially in the finals, averaging like 10 minutes a game b/c what effective bigs did cleveland have? and iggy was on lebron most the time, bogut got hurt in game 5 after cleveland was in control, so games 6 and 7 they missed him that much?
S. Shephard Bogut was the best screen setter/big passer and just him being a presense at the rim helped. Lebron & kyrie feasted in the fucking paint after he went down.
J P lmao typo but the plug was great
@Jonathan Santiago no he averaged 12 minutes a game.. and all in all the Cavs balled out and won three games in a row, those 2 incidents arent enough to justify that
LeBron’s longevity has driven Bill Simmons insane. LeBron when its all said and done will have the best resume and his game will he studied unlike any other athlete. He adjusted to the NBA changing dramatically like 3-4 times and adjusted his game. He’s had to be the GM & coach at times. Mention that part guys
How did he adjust? He keeps doing the same thing but now has more spacing? Seriously? What has he changed?
@@iank3924 significantly better jump shooter, more patient off the dribble, better control of the pace of play.... Those are a couple of things I've noticed
@@vballgiant1 Post Moves, too. And still dominating in his old age. Keeping in shape. And coming into the league he was already a cut above. He should be an example to other superstars, to always be hungry.
Finally. We've finally reached the point where we can actually put players on the same level and have your own personal favorite player. Also, props for elevating Kareem cause MJ stans get weird about the finals thing, like we get it. Kareem should be higher on EVERYONE'S list. Every person has their own. I saw the highlights of Jordan, I saw the end of his career, watched the last dance but I fell in love with Kobe's game. I thought he could put anyone away. Doesn't mean I don't think Jordan's a better player, or that LeBron was on a whole different level, but if I was choosing Kobe or Lebron between 04-2012, I'm taking Kobe all day. Kobe during the Olympics? Momma there goes that man fr fr.
LeBron is way better than Kobe, but regardless, I agree Kareem is top 3 player ever, because I have him 3rd on my list.
2012-2020 bron was probably the most unstoppable player ever
The problem with Kareem is he had Magic and vice versa. Jordan and LeBron never played with someone on that level.
@@MrOctober44 That's a good take. I think MJ and Lebron's teams had enough talent to match those Laker teams. Especially MJ cause he beat Magic's team (Granted they were hurt blah blah blah). Something to consider Kareem's a traditional center, if your PG's trash, he can only do so much. I mean he did pull a Lebron before Magic showed up during those years after Oscar.
I've switched up on Kobe being my favorite player for other dudes since that take awhile back. 'Three Ring Circus' was an eye opener.
Saying that “Jordan is the best thing I’ve ever seen, I don’t care what LeBron does,” is *really* honest on the part of Bill. You are entitled to believe that. I don’t know if that means Jordan is the GOAT though.
He's still two titles shy even WITH this one, with a total meltdown in 2011
@King Nick why do none of the seasons he failed to reach the finals count? Makes zero sense
King Nick I still view LeBron as the GOAT, because one bad series doesn’t somehow take you out of the GOAT conversation. I look at your overall body of work, and LeBron wins in terms of career value of career playoff value.
@King Nick you think the so called goat mj in 23yrs of age could carry the 2007cavs and win it all? How about the 2018 cavs and win it all?
@@thethor5584 Cause he was playing with scrubs and was young.
That look that LeBron gave crouching down when he beat the Celtics in 2012 was an awesome sight. I wish we saw more of that LeBron but the man is great.
2013 LeBron was something else
2009 >
@@elijahruderman that is kind of a forgotten amazing year, like how did he get that roster to 66wins? And expectedly he's blamed for losing to Orlando but he was sensational that series 38 8 and 8 , game winner in one win, dominant 4th quarter in the 2nd win. Game 4 makes 2 free throws down 2 points with .5 seconds to send it to overtime. Lebron has had a best player in the world argument about 13 of 17 years.
juju 32 Agreed. He became the best player in the NBA in 2009, and other than the 2011 finals, he’s never looked back.
@@elijahrudermanLebron has been selected to 16 all nba teams, with 13 of them 1st team selections
I dont think anybody has really let that sink i yet
The light hits players different once they leave the game...when Lebron leaves and cements his legacy, its gonna be tough for people not to see what i see...all hail king james, the first of his name
Seriously, leave luka alone. start talking about his legacy after his first chip. give him air to breath and grow.
@Chi Sun I feel like luka will just be a 6'7 version of Dirk nowitzki. Maybe 2 chips if he has a skilled big man with monster defence to cover for his lack of defensive acumen.
He isnt james harden because at least he does work off ball and is more team oriented
Celtics have championships from the 8 team league they should not count
Man, stfu
@@Lonewolf_665 nope, a 8 team league GIT DAFQ OUTTA HERE Grown ups are talking
I still want a Bill, Ryen and Zach podcast.
How about a Rewatchables with those 3?
They should do the move "Short Circuit" and talk about if Johnny 5 would be a modern day Stretch 5.
Get LOWE!
LeBron was the unanimous 2018 playoffs mvp
easily, the Toronto series was the most ridiculous thing ive ever seen from any superstar.
@@SJO897 game 6 and 7 against Boston was unreal too...kevin love goes out early in game 6, and doesn't return for the series, Bron "i never get tired"
Lebron basically took every one besides the warriors in the 18 playoffs and whipped his ass with them
I'm quite surprised everyone's giving Bron the FMVP. Davis dominated games 1 and 2 (Bron game 2 too), but Davis was so dominant in game 4, so dominant, for me he's a clear winner for now. Plus he was also clutch in game 4.
LeBron would have to clearly dominate game 5 to be my FMVP, like setting a landslide difference with Davis. Otherwise…
Love how they talk about prime LeBron defense. Only Pippen made 5 straight first team all NBA defenses in a row as a wing 2008-09 to 2012-13 and in 2 of those years he was 2nd in DPOY and could of easily won 2013 DPOY!
It hasn't happened for the Heat because they are playing LeBron and AD!!
I could manage to listen to Bill This podcast, but before this upload his takes were outta control.
2018 LeBron was clearly Playoff MVP when he averaged 34, 9, 9 on awesome %s!
Is there some sort of unwritten podcast rule where when you go on other people’s podcast you don’t hook up your own equipment so that you don’t sound as good as the host? I don’t understand why zach wouldn’t use the mic he uses for his own podcasts
We got to stop disrespecting Mario chalmers he was a good defender, good 3 point shooter, & clutch! Very underrated role player
Bill is pretty unbiased compared to the fs1 commentators
People seem to forget the 2011 Mavs had Phil Jackson hitting Pau Gasol in chest because they were destroying teams in the playoffs. But hey, let’s continue to harp on Lebron and not give the Mavs any credit.
Keone D he still chocked 🤷🏻♂️
Norel Nieves He choked. Who choked on the Lakers getting swept? How about OKC with Durant, Westbrook and Harden which one choked?
Zack looking like the flood thruw him out 😂
When the first allowed illegal zone to be played scoring dropped like crazy for those first couple of years before it steadily climbed back up
Yeah because when they removed illegal defense they were still allowing hand checking...so many defensive grinders became so dominant in this time...2001 illegal defense was removed...but it wasn't until after 2004 when the pistons beat the star studded Lakers by absolutely smothering kobe, the league removed hand checking that offseason
Kobe was a top 3 guy from 01-13. not sure what bill simmons is tryna say bout him when talking about how long you’re a top 3 player in the league must be the Celtics homer.
@jo tr he was better than iverson in 01 even though iverson won mvp. It’s like saying giannis won mvp so is he better than Durant hmmm?? I’ll agree on the Duncan point but I think it was Shaq then Kobe/Duncan were you’re top 3 iverson was too much of a liability on the defensive end to be mentioned over those 3.
@jo tr forgot to comment about Kidd. He led his team to the finals in 02 and 03 in the 2 year stretch for any conference in nba history. The East barely had 50 win teams. it’s not that impressive if I’m being honest and no one at that time believed Kidd was better than Kobe Bryant. Kidd and iverson were definitely top 5 those years tho so I’m not tryna disrespect them they were great
Exactly Kobe has 11 top 5 MVP finishes only behind Kareem(15) and Lebron(13). He also has 5 top 3 finishes (only 7 players have more) including 06 where he was 4th in total votes but 2nd in 1st place votes because he was left off a lot of ballots because of the media hate. He's also one of only 11 players with 4 or more MVP shares. Denying Kobe's dominance is delusional he was a top 5 player for over a decade and top 10 player all time.
@@flamelord3312 I think he’s 4th or 5th all time but yeah I agree with everything you said. Bill Simmons was acting like Kobe wasn’t a top 3 guy in the league from 01-13(a 12 year stretch). Only Kareem Lebron could say they were top 3 guys longer.
I wasn’t a fan of Kobe at all but agree he was top 3 from 01-13
18:05 well people like to slag off Wade for those Miami teams. He was crucial in Game 4 of those 2013 finals at San Antonio.
So when Bill goes “You can tell me LeBron had a better career, but I’ve never seen anything like Jordan” that’s where you realize this whole thing is opinion based and there really is no right answer. I feel that way about Kobe when you talk about him versus anyone other than Jordan. I know the stats say he wasn’t as efficient as some of the other guys or there is the fact that he only has 1 regular season MVP, but what stats don’t tell you is the voters picked by narratives and Kobe could’ve won more MVPs. The same way maybe LeBron could’ve won more. Kobe was on the all defensive team a whole lot. That doesn’t get brought up in these conversations usually. We’re always so focused on offense, but he was good on both sides in his prime. Also, having a better career doesn’t mean you’re a better player. It’s all based on who your challengers are, who is on your roster, your coaches, etc. And then there’s the thing about style of play in different eras. The pace changes and teams develop new strategies over time. Look at how many 3s people shoot today. So players today have bigger numbers. It’s is incredibly hard to compare generation by generation. All I know is, LeBron is the best of his era, Kobe was the best of his, Jordan was the best of his, Magic was the best of his and so on. And typically those guys have a few years of overlap. We were robbed of a Kobe vs. LeBron Finals. Would’ve been fun to watch no matter who would end up winning. If you want to argue Kobe versus Duncan, Magic versus Bird, etc. that’s probably a better conversation. Also, doing a year by year look at who the best player each year was would be interesting.
You made a lot of great points in this posts. I have to nitpick on the Kobe All-Defense selections though. A good number of them in the latter stages of his career were purely on reputation. Even Phil mentioned his D slacking in his book. Kobe could play lockdown D in spurts but like any All-Star scorer, he had to conserve himself in that end.
jo tr Kobe has a legit goat argument, remember the league vetoed the CP3 trade which would have extended his career and title count like lebron getting AD has done
Ginga Yeah totally. It’s hard to play on both ends for your whole career, every game, every play. MJ and LeBron took/take possessions off too. Just something you have to do because of both age and the normal wear and tear of playing top level basketball for 35-40 min a game. I also agree on the All-Defense selections. You probably could take a couple of those away, but I still hold onto 1 or 2 more regular season MVPs in place of those without media voting based on narrative.
jo tr Well, my thing is ranking by era, but if I’m forced to pick a GOAT I’m gonna say Jordan every time. I don’t think LeBron can really do anything at this point to change my mind. I think Kobe has an argument against just about everyone outside of Jordan because they all have serious flaws in this GOAT conversation. That’s just my opinion. I’m not mad at anyone saying LeBron before Kobe or putting someone like Kareem up there.
Ginga that’s not true at all , why doesn’t lebron get all defense selections every year? Kobe was a more well rounded player than people give him credit for even at his age he was still the best defender at SG you’d want to get a stop or anchor your perimeter defense remember Kobe was covering for a older slower D fish most of his career in the back court and didn’t have a stopper with him after rick fox until a baby Ariza/ aging artest came along while being the all time leader for shooting guards in assist
people are literally forgetting Kendrick Nunn had the covid virus and an injury. On top of that he was out of the rotation. dealing with all of that as a rookie is tough. that being said the only bad games he had was game 1 and 2. he's getting his rhythm back.
People so desperate to put Luka up there...Thanks for mentioning it Zach...playing defense matters or it should. These other guys were All Defense level guys who also lead their teams in scoring...you have to study, care and commit to playing D. Harden improved and Luka can do it, but hasn't just yet...we'll see...his stats will be ridiculous if he stays on this pace for double digit years
JESUS. Almost turned this off when this man said He'd rather have Wanamaker over Kendrick Nunn... are u kidding me?!?! what a freaking homer. I shouldn't be surprised; maybe he wants to be skip bayless pt 2?
He literally said he thought Brad Wanamaker was the worst backup pg in the league
MJ was great. He also had the best coach of all time, the best 3pt shooter of all time, one of the best wings of all time, one of the best rebounders of all time and an owner who spent 2x the salary cap.
@King Nick at the time he was imo. Dude was shooting 50% + routinely
Jordan had the best team and the deepest team for both 3peat
The only player that could hold him was on his team too.
@@SeanGOReilly in 1994-1995, Kerr shot .524... on 2.1 attempts per game. That was his best statistical season. In his 5 seasons with the Bulls, he shot .454 on 2.4 attempts per game. For context, that means he took 2 three pointers a game and made one of them. That's not the best 3 point shooter.
@@shaka2116 deepest team? Really? The 4th best player on the first threepeat was BJ Armstrong. The Bulls had a lot of role players who were very good at one thing.
Such a great duo. Could listen to Lowe and Simmons talk all day about Bball
Please make a podcast about Dirk`s career! Since it is one of the most astaunding careers probably ever, coming from the second german division. Epic story!
Injuries are a part of the game. Teams need to deal with injuries and try to win regardless. The series is over. Lakers are not loosing in the Black Mamba jerseys. Lakers had the best defense during the playoffs. Defense wins game.
Oops
@@userjim83 Yeah, Danny Green ooops
@@userjim83 Champions. 17 titles. Damn it feels good to win.
Ashton Turner you know you’re a game late right? 🤣
@@userjim83 I can be 2 games late and we still won the Championship...LOL
Bill Simmons can’t accept the fact that his boston celtics just got rolled over by miami heat and lebron and the lakers just completely dismantled miami heat zone defense in 2 games
When did Bill become a borderline anti-LeBron guy?
since he became a laker lol
@@nolanrussell7381 he would freak out if he saw your comment about him being a lakers fan 😂😂😂😂 he can't stand em 💀💀😂😂
@@wilvictor Since *LeBron* became a Laker, not Bill..
@@wilvictor Hes a celtics fan so of course he doesn't like the Lakers and by extension Lebron.
Not soon enough
“Wilt’s a Loser” 😭😭😂
Lol, Bill trying to make it like Bam & Dragic would still prevent Lebron and AD from winning this? They've been so dominant, it wouldn't have mattered. Would have made for a better series but ultimately Lakers in 6.
Fantastic conversation. Loved the BS equation of greatness, really fits.
If we say that Lebron had the greatest career, isn’t that the correct metric to gauge the greatest? It’s like saying Favre or Rodgers is greater than Brady because they had more talent and spectacular moments, but Brady had the better career, which makes him greater.
Bill "they weren't getting their hands on balls" Simmons
He does love his Celtics but he has no problem giving LeBron his props
MJ, Russell, Lebron, Kareem, Magic - top 5
Bill, please stop calling Vlade Divac, Vlade Divach. It's pronounced Divatz.
Nobody cares
Better than AD - Lebron, MJ - Pippen
B. Simmons and Zach
Zach's right about Luka, I think. Defense matters.
People conveniently continue to understate that Mavs 2011 team sweep the Lakers...Dirk had a mission too...those guys played above their head and LeBron didn't have it, but also in a team game...who was lifting anyone up?
So now when he walks around like "its on me and my way" folks act like it is unfounded
Calm down on the Luka love. You can't talk about a guy joining rushmore before the first MVP and championship.
Hey Zach. Let's go wireless buddy
Did Lowe say “the guy who he GAPES for” ???? 34:00
Top 3 any order:
Bi11
MJ
Kareem
Fighting for that 4th spot:
LeBron
Wilt
Magic
LeBron absolutely did not play well in Dallas Finals as they mentioned (mainly because way too passive as he averaged 18, 8, 7, 2 spg on 47-48% shooting but way to few shots!) but when they mention his 8 point game they should mention the great Larry Legend had 8 points on 3-11 finals in b2b 1981 Finals yet bc better team they still won 1 of those games.).
MJ low 22 in finals is incredible and he’s one of the greatest scorers ever (MJ Wilt Durant LeBron Kareem West best scorers) but also can’t forget he shot 26 times per game also in his 6 finals and had games of 5-19, 6-19, 9-26, 11-28.
Vs SuperSonics actually he averaged only 27, 5, 4, 1.7 spg, only 0.2 bpg on a bad 41.5% shooting and bad 31.6% from 3.
And MJ actually averaged like 24ppg when the Glove switched on him. Which was his worse in all his finals.
And LeBron was passive in those finals. But he’s always been pass first. And here’s something NO ONE brings up… go look at D-Wade’s shot attempts per game during Dallas series. D-Wade was trying to be the man and it killed them. Which is why D-Wade said I handed over the reigns in the summer, thus they won 2 in a row.
I know why he's so obsessed with Luka (the obvious reason), but Bill Simmons is always taking this overboard.
Look, Celtics and Heat are a notch of experience below the Lakers. They both are good teams, but you could see that the Celtics’ turnovers happening was because they lacked leadership.
Why is it that nobody considers the fact that lebron played with multiple all star player and future hall of famers to get the stats and praised for playing longer, while jordan won with one hall of fame teammate with a 6-0 record, none of his peers ate off his plate, even kobe bryant with a 5-2 record, played with one hall of fame teammates and was able to lead a team during tree years in a roll to the finals during lebron's peck prime, lebron left Cleveland to chase a ring with D wade in Miami the same guy from his own draft class, people just want to over look that 🤷🏾♀️, lebron's a great player but come on stop with the jordan comparison when the man has 6 losses, thats not leaving his resume, so are we going to keep celebrating a man for loosing and he had more help then any great player that's come before him 🤯
Jordan is the best ever but ur wrong on jordan only playing with one hall of fame player. In his first 3 chips he only played with 1 witch was pippen but in his next 3 chips he had pippen and rodman who is also a hof player
It’s crazy how this media people who never played Pro sport and lack knowledge of the sport still have the job and make money. Smh
You’re watching 🤷🏻♂️
@@userjim83 no shit.
LeBron would have ate in that illegal defense area
You can't be serious about the whole " can't say negative things about LeBron". Like have the half the media market makes their money on that. The other half is nfl
So quick to mention the mavericks series and never mention Jordans under 500 record in the regular seasons and being swept in the 1st round. Just be fair is all we ask
I will never forget Lebrons win or go home game 6 vs my Celtics
But 2015 Kyrie and K Love don’t get hurt Bron has 5 rings already
Talking about small ball phenix beat Kobe Lakers with Steve Nash 2 years straight in the playoffs...
As you state the injuries AD is injured
39:51 - No chance..... Lebron's been All NBA defense 5 times, and as great as he's been at times in his career on the defensive end, he's still not recognized as being on Jordan, Kareem or Russell's level (by way of awards etc). Luka will never be that, because he's not that level of pure athlete. Luka can't crack the top level without defensive accomplishments.
Exactly my thoughts lol Bill loves throwing luka's name in these type of conversations and everytime he does people shut him down the same way by telling him that luka is just not elite on defense like every guy who people consider to be the top 5 players of all time
@@joel8692 Which is fine. I don't know why people want to put these narratives on Luka, when he's doing enough. He breaks records, set a pace, and people want more. :D
If Luka stays the same player, and wins a few chips, that's a great career. Anything more is gravy.
GOAT vs BOAT. Jordan is the GOAT. LeBron is the BOAT. Jordan has the highest peak. LeBron is the best/ most skilled player of all time
So by that logic Shaq, the dude with the highest, brightest peak, would be neck and neck with MJ for GOAT status
@@iwantaoctosteponmyneckbut3545 yes do u realize how good shaq was?
@@GoldenBoy-sq6yl I mean, he's top ten for sure, but imo he's a tier below MJ.
MJ, Lebron, Kareem, Russell in tier 1.
Magic, Duncan, Bird, Wilt, Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem in tier 2.
Skilled? Not really. There are much more skilled players around. LeBron has a physical advantage.
Honestly think that MJ is the BOAT, but LeBron may catch him up in the GOAT conversation and surpass him by winning another championship
@@GoldenBoy-sq6yl shaq was amazing but he couldn't be the point
U wish we were all putting Russell on the mount Rushmore dude....
Did he really just say Wanamaker is better then Kendrick Nunn 15 ppg?!?! Pacers had him this year he’s horrid.
MVP is up for grabs in the close out game.
Kareem and Wilt are better than Russell. I have Russell top 7. But 4th Alltime I wouldn’t put him there
Wilt averaged 18 PPG for his finals career (even tho he averaged atleast 20 PPG every regular season untill his last two seasons... with a 2-4 finals record two of those losses came from Knicks Willis reed outplaying wilt how can he be top 10 when he barley won 2 titles Russ was
11-0 in game 7s 18 PPG and 29 REB averages in those 10 games
Russell won 5 mvps ( 3 straight ) and Celtics missed the playoffs for a couple years straight after Russ retired despite not losing anyone other Sam Jones and he was replaced by HOF jojo white Russell played with four members of the NBA's Top 50 at 50 (Havlicek, Cousy, Sharman, and Sam Jones); Wilt played with six members (Baylor, West, Greer, Cunningham, Arizin, and Thurmond). And Russell's teammates from 1957 to 1969 were selected to twenty-six All-Star games, while Wilt's teammates from 1960 to 1973 were selected to twenty-four. Let's never mention the supporting-cast card again with Russell and Chamberlain. Thank you.
Wilt never was the leading scorer in the finals when he won In fact he was the 5th leading scorer in the 1967 finals 5th LEADING SCORER ON HIS OWN TEAM ALONE, wilts game was never that of a winner bill was the more clutch cerebral player 3 times in the finals he averaged 20+ PPG and another finals series he had 70%FG on near 20 PPG,
Bill said it best, Wilt was a loser. He had all the gifts except between his ears. He wasn't dumb, but he was BBall dumb. He did less with more, while Russell did more with less.
Russell had a winner's mentality. Wilt had a loser's mentality.
As amazing Luka is his defense isn't close to MJ/LeBron
How does Brad Stevens still have the Celtics coach job? He had the most talented team in the East and couldn’t come out of the second round.
You do realize they made the conference finals this year right? Lol
Jayfeather couldn’t beat the heat with a full squad? Celtics trash
Jayfeather 2018 Also But Cant Get Over The Hump
Lol you guys don’t know basketball if you really have this take. 2018 they were too young, and went up against LeBron. This year the Celtics were down Gordon Hayward for the first couple games, and had to reintegrate him back into the lineup. That’s also ignoring the fact of how good a coach Spo is, and how well built the Heat were this year. Keep preaching ignorance though, I won’t reply to people who don’t understand deep high level basketball.
Jayfeather Brad made no adjustments to the high school 2-3 zone. Had way too many offensive weapons to just let Smart take 20+ shots. Should’ve rather been focusing his energy on stopping Dragic and Herro. Adebayo got put on a pedestal because the Celtics let him roam free during their series. Celtics played it really bad
Bill cant get over the Celtics not being as good as he thought is starting to get annoying.
Starting?
@@kf4778 correction... been annoying lol
I want to be bill when I grow up
Luca? Is it when people talking to much they say dumb stuff. That guy bill chose the 4 greatest nba players of all time and throw luca among them. Do you how durable luca has to be ? Luca's body wont survive what is coming for him.
Bill is a closet Lakers fan. The Celtics stuff is a ruse
2018 playoff lebron is the best basketball player that ever has and ever will exist
Yeah I've thought about this alot lol. The 3 best versions of Lebron are 2009, 2013 and 2018. But in 2018 even though he was slightly less athletic he was so far ahead in terms of basketball IQ and could shoot the 3 well he was so dominant. Definitely the greatest player of all time
Did u forget about 1992,1993 jordan?
these guys be like let's give lebron finals MVP for 2015 & 2018 lmao..
Playoff mvp not finals. Meaning who was the best player in those playoffs.
Most Valuable Social Justice Warrior
What if the Lakers had avery bradley
swept the whole playoffs
@@TakablePond I just think it's funny people want to knock this playoff run and say o what if dragic was playing
@@derekgreen7319 yeah avery bradley would had put him in lock and key
lebron better than jordan
nah, Lebron has carried less to WINNING titles, Jordan carried for his last two rings, with an injured Pippen and 38 year old role player Rodman, and his prime stats are better. Even though there positions are different, MJ impacted the game of basketball more than Bron did while being more dominant scoring and on defense. Bron is a better well rounded player but he's played with far more all stars than Jordan ever did.
the goat doesn't score 8 points in a finals game
Facts💯💯💯💯💯💯. LeBron the GOAT.
Amadou Sy Put context behind your argument.. LeBron played with more all stars right? Was Wade healthy during his Finals runs? How about Kyrie and K-Love? For the most part???? The LeBron carried those teams when Wade, Kyrie, and Love weren’t healthy in those Finals runs. Jordan played with all-stars too. You need all stars to win any type of championship brah.
He's great in his own right
Bill is so salty about Bron. Smdh
Russell is not in the mix with those other greats. Best teammate of all time? Absolutely. Best player? No. Averaging just 15.1 points a game in an era with many more possessions is not very good. He was often third in scoring on his team.
And the best defensive player on the best defensive team in the league but wutever
@G-man elgin, oscar, jerry, greer, Frazier, Cunningham, Barry, etc...just the men that laid the foundation for perimeter players for the next 5 decades but wutever
@@Syhbw more like Russell sets the precedent for dominance on the defensive end for every big man the comes after him
@@RLSmith-jt8qj I agree. But if Ben Wallace would have averaged 15 to 20 points during this prime, Bill Simmons wouldn't think he is an all-time great.
@@brewer921 ben Wallace doesn't exist without the concept of bill Russell to draw from.
The year Lebron lost to Dallas was basically like Jordan losing to the 90 Pistons...but y’all wanna act like lebron didn’t get to the finals at a younger age than Jordan
No way was it the sams the pistons were the favorites over the bulls and they had a much much better team than the bulls did. In lbjs case miami was the overwhelming favorites with a much beter team than the mavs who were a old team. Also yes lbj made it to the finals at a younger age but he lost and lost badly. Nothing mattters if u dont win it all
LeBron is the 2nd greatest player of all time!
Mj
Kareem
Lebron
MJ
Kareem
Kobe
Lebron
Magic
Shaq
Russell
Bird
Duncan
Wilt
Simrat Dhanju ok I respect that list
S T ok I respect that list
No! Wade was not following the game plan. Hero ball shit! I think Jordan got in Wade ear about taking over. Remember Wade was signed to Jordan's brand. Watch that series again dude. It wasn't Lebron's fault.
Lmaoooooo wow
olynk should not be playing pro basket ball
Will they mention that these are lowest rated NBA finals?
Everything currently on television is at its lowest ratings.
@@2Muchpjp also it's football season and people act like we're not in a middle of a pandemic 🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
Steven Valdez II who watches TV anymore everything is streamed
Yes TV ratings are down for everything and yes we are dealing with NFL season, but then why did Adam Silver say next season they will take down social justice messages off jerseys near year? If you think that has not been hurting sports ratings then you have serious cognitive dissonance. Who has been the loudest voice for SJW politics? Your saying that has not effected the ratings?
J G people don’t watch games to watch politics. Also the NBA has a political slogan on their court. It is not just at the start of the game. So the whole game they are seeing a political point of view. People want sports to be an escape from reality. Also millionaires telling their fans that they are racist is a really bad business move. As I stated again if the woke politics are working so well then why is Adam sliver saying they are taking them away for next season?
Yo, who cares. Where is that podcast about The Wire?