@@FightCommentary The kungfu fighters definitely have fast, high-volume hammerfists from clinch distance, however, they seem unable to put their body weight into the strike the same way other fighters do when they throw elbows from the clinch. Moreover, instead of aiming for spots like the chin, the temple, the jaw, they strike to the top of the head? the part of the body we headbutt other people with? the part of the body that breaks knuckles in street fights? seems unwise to me.
@idleeidolon that's a result of the gloves making things weird- I'd bet money that they were aiming at the bridge of the nose. Now I still don't think that tactic should replace your jab, but it at least makes marginally more sense
Nice Video the power issue, KF punching in gloves, fighting like a boxer while boxer has boxing skills. rather than bare knuckle or open hand. But good exchange. The last KF man moved inside the box close occupying space, moving from striking to trapping range, without gloves he would do damage.
Damn that boxer is going easy & holding back so much an allowing the kung fu practitioners to practice what works. Props to all of them for challenging themselves & bigger props to the boxer who is humbly holding back.
Hammer fists can be fast and light but they can also be heavy and have knockout power with a big (telegraphed) wind up. There are a few hammer fist kos that you can sometimes see online but they usually involve a big wind up. Also, gloves do change the game. In early boxing, fighters had matches way more frequently and they did not have gloves to protect their hands which lead to a situation with a bigger variety of hand techniques and less knockout power. In some way, you could say that the evolution of modern boxing is largely tied to the development of knockout power which only could have developed in an environment with more time between bouts and heavily padded gloves
Exactly - take the gloves off and what are you gonna do on the street? Go bare knuckle without wraps? Hammer fist can work, and opening the hand into 'knife hand' can go for carotid shots on the neck too - very similar to hammer fist strikes, but more pin-pointed on neck targets. Boxer can tuck his chin, but the sides of the neck are still gonna be open at times.
@@Erime Carotid shots to the neck with the knife hand would be mostly annoying against a boxer who might also know to raise his shoulders a little to add extra protection to his chin and neck. Not to mention the power potential of a knife hand for most people is overshadowed when you close the distance a little bit more ,close the fists and smash the outside of your forearm instead of the padded underside of a knife hand. I find knife hands more applicable in grappling situations or as jab rangefingers or something to pierce a known soft target like the center of the neck or the eyes from down range. Rather than as strikes going downwards which is made redundant by hammerfists or clubbing your forearm against a guy. Not to mention that it's hard to pull off from a pure striking engagement where you have other, better options.
Using angles does alleviate the windup and the telegraph, as you can make it act like a hook to the opponent's pov where they end up seeing the punch coming from outside of their immediately field of vision. And I find it being more applicable as a lead hand strike since the telegraph is alleviated and there isn't as much need of a wind up as you would with the rear hand, instead using footwork to generate that power for you.
@@joh_kun5530 @JOH_KUN wing chun knife hands dart out forwards without any telegraph, and chop to the neck nicely. But yeah as you say it would be angle-dependent, but the boxer can't remain tucked at all times - there'll be one side potentially revealed at any point when he's going for the hook. Normally chambered fist covers the neck there a lot, though, yeah- it depends how tight he's keeping things. But why do you say carotid shots would mostly be annoying? You don't think they could be effective?
@@Erime The hand doesn't exactly dart out forwards to "chop" at the carotid artery without any telegraph, maybe jab into but not chop. This is of course, unless you could set it up like how one would with a swift lead hook, and there's always the element of surprise that comes with "illegal" strikes. And yes, you could use it as a counter-strike in case a man decides to throw a power shot at you, hooks and haymakers in particular. Also, I did not say carotid shots aren't effective. I specifically noted that they won't be effective with a knife hand, as you might as well close your fist and guarantee a lights out as there is more structure and force with a fist than there is with an open hand, and you're effectively striking at the same range as you would with open hands. Now, you might get a pencil necked bum here and there with this strike, but I won't count on that if I were you. What if you run into someone with a neck thicker than your thighs? Or bench presses a decent amount of weight from the neck bridge position? That type of stuff. A good hook to the button by comparison has a chance to wobble just about anyone, unless there's a 40kg size difference or you end up running into GGG or Rodtang, or a shot straight to the throat. Though, to be fair. You might as well have that strike in your arsenal, it doesn't hurt especially if you can tell that someone really is pencil necked and will go down. However, you could go ahead and bash the arteries or any part of the neck for that matter with the significantly harder bones of the forearm or a hammerfist either closing the distance or ending up in the range between clinching and boxing, or within a clinch. Much more force could be applied if you know how to swing your weight with it.
In the 1988 I knew a Wing Chun teacher called Sifu Garry McKenzie he was a boxer who trained in Wing Chun from Simon Lau, after learning Wing Chun he combined the footwork and other aspects of boxing with Wing Chun. He mixed what worked. He was a doorman and a debt collector so he put what he knew to the test. He trained hard and boxed clever, I think he was learning Jujitsu in 1990s so he could take the fight to the ground.
I’m not familiar with if some of the unarmed styles are supposed to advance their training into weapons, but some of the techniques appear as if they would flow into trap and stab and control really well especially with like a reverse grip dagger much like some Filipino Martial arts styles.
I agree. There's always an element of tripping and takedown once the distance is closed, and the arms are trapped. If it's pure boxing, then staying in range is good way to end up eating combos (especially if there is no head movement whatsoever.). Except for the first guy, the Kung Fu footwork looked good. Nice to see them pressure testing their styles.
some people say that Wing Chun makes a lot more sense with knife or short sword fighting, which I can definitely see in some stuff like the circular chain punching being a lot more terrifying if someone's whirling a couple of short slashing knives at you
@@Autonamatonamaton Yup. Hammer fists make much more sense with bladed force multipliers. You don’t need to use your balance as much for weight shifting to generate as much follow through for unarmored combat. You just need to nick the right place at the same time as keeping the other guy from nicking you or disturb their power generation/balance chain if they have a blunt weapon or are fist fighting.
As a long time kung fu rat, I can tell you that today's kung fu is nothing like what it probably was generations ago. But it could find its way back with enough hard work. It's good to spar with boxers.
This illustrates how hard it is to trap a punch. There are a few instances where the kung fu guys try, but the boxers' hands and arms have a mind of their own and aren't sticking around to be cranked on.
Not to mention that most of the time, especially if the boxer is fighting bare knuckle ironically, hand trapping is going to be much more difficult as a hard strike going quickly is reduced to the size of a fist. And it WILL go through unless you've set everything up beforehand. Not to mention that you have to trap both hands so that you don't get smashed in the face.
@@joh_kun5530 Trapping barefist is easier actually. You don't trap the fists, EVER. You trap the forearm or the elbow joint, while slightly moving your head, assuming you're doing an outside slapping block. Of course, the guy has to know what he's doing. anybody who's looking only to trap hands in a fight is looking to trap himself. There's a time and place for everything. Please dont speak on the matter like it's completely useless, it works. I've done it in sparring.
@@jkdfighter4964 To be fair, yeah you can trap the rest of the arm to prevent strikes from coming on, or if you have a tight high guard or some form of a crossguard as a passive shunt to prevent blows from coming in with any real power. Long guard has proven this to be quite effective via bicep frames, forearm frames or elbow frames. Issue is, for a lot of Kung Fu schools, they specifically go for the hands and over-exaggerate the motions of trapping or parrying to either defend or to counter, which leaves them quite open for follow ups. Not to mention that a lot of them don't even have basic head movement and leave their chin out as wide as the open steppes of Mongolia. This is a mistake even high level fighters like Sean Strickland make, and that's what got him slept with a left hook from hell as he was anticipating a jab and went on to sink his hands down to catch that supposed jabbing hand. A perfect directional feint set up by his respect of the jab.
They did well IMO. The hammer fists without gloves can also transition to grabs and pulls ala grappling handfighting, though with gloves they can be still used to open up or peel defenses. The swinging angles can also be used for forearms and elbows. "In the streets" these angles are perfect for when holding objects. Anyway of course people shouldn't only use hammerfists and these should be used with normal strikes too
I think a hammer fist to a temple is really dangerous, especially without gloves where punching someone in the head using a standard closed fist might result with a broken hand.
I wonder if they have ever seen pro boxers and how it is when they go all out or going to finish a person. Even though the attacks are fast they have kinetic link to the ground. These KF fighters are trying to hit as fast as they can but not linking or making the attacks flow together well. The best thing that happened to the 5 guys was that they got hit in the body and face. Seriously, that is so important for growth as a fighter.
Exactly. There’s a way to throw those hammer-like strikes and do damage, but these five didn’t do it. These five were almost playing “every time I hit him I get credit,” which isn’t how it works when you take a boxer on.
One thing to keep in mind for the patty cake guy, is that high volume might work in the street JUST BECAUSE you might get their eye and that's the only reason. In a no glove situation, power punching is nerfed heavily because you risk breaking your hand. So it's more open palm smacks and probably gouging and jolting the neck, elbows, body checking. The slap fu is probably still very weak in that context, but the eye stuff is not to be underestimated...
A higher guard and catch counters for someone prepared is a good counter for a lot of that shit. Patty cake guy in the streets could easily get overzealous trying to get all of the vulnerables and he runs into an elbow straight to the jaw, or a lead hand trap to hook counter whilst the strikes are being defended by said higher guard.
to add to my last comment though, i would say that these kung fu guys arent applying their hammerfists in proper context. its awesome to see them doing it at all, but usually these hamemrfists are supposed to come with grabs and grapples to force someone into position momentarily for the hits. aditonally, theyre trying to use their hammerfists in a boxing context, which causes them to come out as arm flicks. it doesnt do a ton of damage, and it tires the arms out quickly. theyre trying *really hard* to "Look" like kung fu. and its working against their favor. styles arent about "form" but about substance. its not how it looks. its the mechanics. just like aikido isnt about "looking effortless and mystical" its about mastering Aiki, and expressing it however it comes out.
I think these kung fu guys are better than 95% of kung fu guys who don't actually spar. Those hammer fist could be deadly on the street by the way. You just need to connect them.
i would argue that the hammerfists would do more damage without gloves, because they would be able to aim them at better targets (temple, nose, upper lip, eye/brow, ear, back of head etc). Also, without the gloves, the impact is less "spongy" so more blunt force transfers quickly instead of dissipating. same as a bareknuckle punch that causes a cut, vs a punch with a glove. (though to a less extreme extent)
No hammer fists do more damage in gloves than a punch. We use spinning back fists in muay thai and kickboxing because there's less padding on that part of the glove. A Kung Fu hammer fist is just weak.
@@moustachio334 Have you ever seen MMA ground pound before? Hammer fists work and do damage. 16oz gloves are more heavy because they have more padding. Punches are more powerful without the gloves on.
That's a really good point at the end. If your could start with chain punches and get someone to shell and _then_ hit them _before_ they answer with a hook.
One of the main propositions with kung fu is the idea that one can generate a lot of power in relatively short distance & from odd angles. I've yet to see it performed on a non-compliant opponent yet.
Kung fu guys did pretty good i think! Looks like they were all having fun. I'm not sure why we're talking about power and damage when this looks like a pretty light sparring session even when they turned it up. Doesn't look like anyone was really trying to rock each other so I'd reserve judgement. If they want to get more power in their strikes they're gonna need some more hip rotation and whipping power generation with their shoulders, if they have this issue even when striking with power they could probably fix that with some heavy bag work, and even without too much power those kinds of strikes do enough to set you up for a throw or seizing and grasping which is traditionally more what it's supposed to be about than exchanging strike for strike. But in a friendly sparring session where you're just trying to show your stuff I don't see too much of a point. Xiaopan did pretty decently on control too though yeah he turned it up a bit towards the end. Arguably too much for a light-ish sparring session since at 5:46 the kung fu guy knocked his foot against the tripod and Xiaopan capitalized on the distraction with a right cross lol. No harm done and of course, defend yourselves at all time, but still wanted to point it out. All the kung fu guys could be a bit more defensively responsible when they're up close and exchanging strikes like that. Having your arms out is okay if your aim is to clinch up, grab them, or quickly set up a sweep like kung fu traditionally should, but if you're up close trading with a boxer you're gonna need to protect yourself more.
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those kungfu techniques seem like a great fuse with muay thai/boxing/kick boxing. throwing some high volume hammer fist on a good oppening then work the body. or use the circular kungfu back fist jab as an exit for punch combos to get more fluidity in. great video. respect to the boxer and kungfu guys.
You said the hammerfists weren’t doing too much damage. If he was making contact with the gloves on if you take the gloves off then the hammer fists can become Tiger claws to the eyes/face thereby increasing the damage. In other words the hammer fists can represent other things, albeit just as the boxer’s strikes could as well. Just sayin.
Box pan is very formidable, anyone doubting that is delusional lol. The biggest advantage of hammer and backfists in a self defense scenario is that you can throw them full power without breaking or roughing up your hands as easily, especially if you are targeting hard body parts like the skull. And I'm right there with you on the implementation by these kung fu guys. They knew how to throw combos that landed a lot but some of them, especially the fifth one with the headgear, he wasn't putting neither hip rotation nor stepping into his strikes. So it was plain simply peppering even if he would have done them full force. Any moderatelly skilled fighter can take those and trade them for power blows all day. The first kung fu guys did a better job of putting power behind the strikes but the mistake they all had in common was that they basically did nothing but hamer and backfist combos. Just like those wing chun guys that only walk forward chain punching, that makes you very easy to figure out. Those combos can be effective and you can certainly learn how to put power behind them, I have received some hammerfists to the top and sides of my head from my teachers when doing hard sparring that were very stunning, but these guys need to start mixing it up with more common/universal strikes so their gameplan is not too simple and predictable. With all that said, it's beautifull to see kung fu people fearlessly testing their style. All of these practitioners can only improve with the right mindset. And I hope Box Pan keeps going to these gyms, he is doing wonders for the TCMA community that actually wants to put kung fu where it belongs 😊.
I agree, I do wonder what intensity they're all trying to spar at though. For a light-ish sparring session I wouldn't be trying to put everything i've got into my strikes. I will say if you've got just a bit more power in those, having someone swarming you with strikes from weird angles can push you back quite a bit and you can see that in the video. I think those without too much sparring experience tend to either throw too light or too hard, not saying these kung fu guys don't spar but they all throw pretty light, not surprised if that's just how they do things at their school. Don't really wanna say too much against doing that, avoiding CTE is smart, but it doesn't always instill the best fighting habits. Xiaopan wasn't going too hard either, but he's probably used to sparring at a higher intensity than the kung fu guys so his idea of light contact is different than theirs. 5th kung fu guy turned it up quite a bit and swarmed him a lot after seeing what happened with the others lol.
@@unmessable12 yea, it's hard to judge just from this one video if the guys that were just peppering were doing so out of control, and not a lack of technique on power generation. I wholeheartedly agree that a couple of those combos at full force will put someone on their hills for a moment. If you mix kicks with them you can come up with devastating combinations I'm sure. Hopefully these guys work on power generation with the bag and/or pads, but I know from my own experience that you can develop the bad habit of being too nice if you don't ever go a little hard in sparring and it ends up showing even in a real fight.
None of them knew how to strike with any power. If you've got the rooting down - planted feet and 'power lines' in Western boxing, you can generate power from a shoulder strike at close range, even. Not sure what the rules were in this sparring, though - fist techniques only?
Kungfu guys should adjust their strategy due to the characteristics of their skills. These quick light punches or hammers should be used to control space and timing, but you still need to land a powerful punch, throw, or joint lock to end the fight.
A hammer fist without gloves is different. Much more painful and powerful. And without gloves, the techniques will become more advanced. Specifically with grabs following up the bargurad jams and hammer fists. The gloves limit the true purpose of those strikes while making them less effective and powerful
When it comes to hammer fist punches, you use them to protect against breaking your hands. Punches to the head and face using a straight fist runs a high risk of breaking your hand.
@@-_ellipsis_-5219 Mike Tyson only had a hairline fracture in one of his knuckles. And you saw how hard he punches. It's because of the fact that his fists were worth millions of dollars and championships were on the line was it made an issue.
@JOH_KUN I know it wasn't clear, but I'm disagreeing with the sentiment that hammer fists are better on grounds of being "safer", by reason of fists having more KO power and nothing is safer than being the reason the fight ended
I mean death by thousand cuts also works if well you could do meaningful damage. Even if you stand thete still and i girly slap you for a whole 30 seconds, i doubt those wouldnt do any damage at all.
The boxer increased the pace at each "round". Interesting sparring anyway. The Kungfu students at least tried what they learn, it's wasn't the usual haymakers.
Cool vidéo, however the techniques like hammer fist were not thrown with power. They didn’t put their whole bodies into them. And the last guy was just throwing punches and hammer fists without hip/body movement Hammer fists when thrown the right way, are pretty painful 😅
I agree with that sentiment that I think these guys would do fine in a street confrontation. They're at least willing to trade blows and your average idiot is probably going to panic and back off with that peppering even if its not exactly doing all that much damage. Fair play to them.
Kung Fu needs to evolve with some defensive concepts. Hands are always low especially when throwing a punch. Long guard with parrying could work if they don't put up a high guard. Hammer fist attacks look wild which leaves them wide open for counters. The good thing is that this school is sparring and pressure testing their techniques with other martial arts. Hope they learn from these sessions.
im waiting till the day boxer or mma challenge trad ma without glove and boxing/mma rules..i wanna see trad ma use open palm attack,neck chop,hand locking,grabbing,claw attack etc
Don't underestimate hammer fist, prey mantis or tong long hammer fist is not joke. I don't try tong long, but I have alot of friend that trained tong long, and the conditioning they have to do makes them hit hard. I think awhile ago someone hammer fisted a bouncer in a fight and cracked his skull.
Hammerfists can definitely knock someone out in the right situation, but the average hammerfist is objectively weaker than a hook just based on physics. With a hook you have your entire forearm behind the punch like you're thrusting a spear, where hammerfists are more like whacking someone with a stick. If you had huge weights on your fists then a hammerfist would feel more like an actual hammer and do way more damage
@@wynsonrao5177 Certain kung fu styles have extremely powerful hammer fists and to get that power they do special exercises that 'connects' the body. Those hammer-fists can finish fights with one or two strikes as long as the right methodology is followed including 'recording' the strikes into muscle memory.
@@DJAraRealSalsa yeah well a regular punch, or kick, or elbow, or headbutt can end a fight in one hit as well. Like I said it depends on the situation, but regular punches are more reliable because of the physics behind them.
@@wynsonrao5177 depending on how a hammer fist is executed. I recently went to a seminar about a more "realistic" use of knife and we were taught to use full bodyweight strikes with a hammerfist (holding a knife, so that will be a very strong stab). And advantage of this move is that it is really natural, really powerful, and there is a very small chance of injuring the fist (unlike with a straight boxing punch without gloves). They did not used the full body in the strike kind of body mechanism but I don't find any problem with that because it was a friendly training and not a match to knock out the other. Kudos to the guys.
@@wynsonrao5177 I agree, but the hammer fist is reliable because of the physics behind them too. The fact is that some kung fu styles such as certain lineages of Chow Gar (Southern Praying Mantis) use the hammer fist as their main weapon, BUT this technique is developed with certain tendon strengthening and 'connection' exercises very different to the more external approaches to the use of this technique in other kung fu and also Karate styles. So, what is effective depends on one's own individual training that include the not so obvious development exercises.
I just hope those kung fu people learn boxing for a few months, and not convince themselves they did okay because they touched the boxer with those lightning girly slap thing. That slap thing may be fine as a faint or a surprise, but spamming like that only works in video games and movies.
I usually am 100% in agreement, but for the hammer fiists nah, they damage, clear guard with one and cycle that hammer down repeatedly. Without gloves its far worse.
I disagree, if you can move your body with the right rotation, you can hit hard, I mean literally look at board breaking, why do you think some martial arts encourage board breaking using either a hammer fist or a chop? Even if most strikes don't do as much damage because of reasons like moving around so you can't really do the rotation, any fighter could do a Ryan Garcia and surprise the opponent with a sudden hard strike that is mixed together with the soft strikes. Also I am guessing that these hammer strikes are meant to be mixed with grappling techniques akin to Roberto Duran. Also I don't think you clarified if this was meant to be a serious fight or a friendly spar but point is that there is a chance they are holding back so I doubt these any of these fighters were trying to knock each other out.
No such thing as Kungfu in sparring, Kungfu is basically an exhibition art form (of forms). Most if not all contact sparring resorts to boxing in some form or another in the end. Just an opinion, comments anyone.
FINALLY KUNG FU GUYS THAT LOOK YOUNG, VIBRANT AND DURABLE. ALSO WILLING TO GET HIT AND KEEP TRAINING.. NO KICKS VS BOXER? GOT KICK TO SEE HOW A BOXER RESPONDS TO KUNG FU KICKS
Also occurs to me that the boxer is heavily pulling his punches. A lot of the strikes he landed would likely have ended the fights had he been trying to hurt them, even a little
Kungfu is attack n defence mode. Plus is rich 👍 in techniques.. But nothing of the above two I could see. It appeared boxer due to better body toughness has n upper hand.
Man. Those are 2 different styles. Giving handicap to the kung fu guy (not using his legs) already makes the fight unfair, not to mention that he has to wear gloves where he can t apply no maneuvers. And i m just making common sense observations i m not a martial arts or boxing practitioner.
don't see the point in this - should be without gloves and rules, only then can you gauge what might be more effective how are you suppose to crush someones windpipe with gloves like that on?
How could you be so biased? They were going light at each other that's why the kung fu fighters threw less forceful strikes neither did the boxer throw forceful punches. Don't deem it as kung fu strikes are 'weak'.
the kung fu guys need to train with dumb bells, wrist weights and swing Indian clubs. They have no power nor control of their punches. Also no stamina, so skipping. Their hammer punches could then be knockout punches. Finally, not "grounded", so no power in the punches. Dance, bob and weave, but ground your feet before you deliver.
It's a very special experience to spar with Kunfu Fighters! Special Techniques!
Everyone, make sure to follow Boxpan here ^^
@@FightCommentary The kungfu fighters definitely have fast, high-volume hammerfists from clinch distance, however, they seem unable to put their body weight into the strike the same way other fighters do when they throw elbows from the clinch. Moreover, instead of aiming for spots like the chin, the temple, the jaw, they strike to the top of the head? the part of the body we headbutt other people with? the part of the body that breaks knuckles in street fights? seems unwise to me.
@@idleeidolon I think the targeting and power problems are from nearly always sparring super light or only hitting bags/pads
@idleeidolon that's a result of the gloves making things weird- I'd bet money that they were aiming at the bridge of the nose.
Now I still don't think that tactic should replace your jab, but it at least makes marginally more sense
I'm impressed with the Kung Fu guys. They were willing to get in close and try against boxers, something many Kung Fu guys don't do.
right! respect!
Nice Video the power issue, KF punching in gloves, fighting like a boxer while boxer has boxing skills. rather than bare knuckle or open hand. But good exchange. The last KF man moved inside the box close occupying space, moving from striking to trapping range, without gloves he would do damage.
boxer pulling his punches lol
Saw this one a while back. The instructor of this Kung-fu school knows boxing and has incorporated boxing drills into their training.
That’s really cool!
@@FightCommentary You can also tell by all the boxing equipment they have in the background.
Hitting bags, pads, and people is really paramount to developing effective fighting skills. There is no other way. This is the Way!
Not only did they accept to spar with a boxer, they did pretty well in my opinion. Kudos to them
Damn that boxer is going easy & holding back so much an allowing the kung fu practitioners to practice what works.
Props to all of them for challenging themselves & bigger props to the boxer who is humbly holding back.
Credit to the Kung Fu Guys - Testing themselves
Credit to the Boxer - Boxing barefoot on hardwood floor
so brave of him to challenge the whole fast food chain
That did not look like a fast food chain, especially when you notice the kung fu guys' performance in general.
Hammer fists can be fast and light but they can also be heavy and have knockout power with a big (telegraphed) wind up. There are a few hammer fist kos that you can sometimes see online but they usually involve a big wind up.
Also, gloves do change the game. In early boxing, fighters had matches way more frequently and they did not have gloves to protect their hands which lead to a situation with a bigger variety of hand techniques and less knockout power.
In some way, you could say that the evolution of modern boxing is largely tied to the development of knockout power which only could have developed in an environment with more time between bouts and heavily padded gloves
Exactly - take the gloves off and what are you gonna do on the street? Go bare knuckle without wraps? Hammer fist can work, and opening the hand into 'knife hand' can go for carotid shots on the neck too - very similar to hammer fist strikes, but more pin-pointed on neck targets. Boxer can tuck his chin, but the sides of the neck are still gonna be open at times.
@@Erime Carotid shots to the neck with the knife hand would be mostly annoying against a boxer who might also know to raise his shoulders a little to add extra protection to his chin and neck. Not to mention the power potential of a knife hand for most people is overshadowed when you close the distance a little bit more ,close the fists and smash the outside of your forearm instead of the padded underside of a knife hand.
I find knife hands more applicable in grappling situations or as jab rangefingers or something to pierce a known soft target like the center of the neck or the eyes from down range. Rather than as strikes going downwards which is made redundant by hammerfists or clubbing your forearm against a guy. Not to mention that it's hard to pull off from a pure striking engagement where you have other, better options.
Using angles does alleviate the windup and the telegraph, as you can make it act like a hook to the opponent's pov where they end up seeing the punch coming from outside of their immediately field of vision. And I find it being more applicable as a lead hand strike since the telegraph is alleviated and there isn't as much need of a wind up as you would with the rear hand, instead using footwork to generate that power for you.
@@joh_kun5530 @JOH_KUN wing chun knife hands dart out forwards without any telegraph, and chop to the neck nicely. But yeah as you say it would be angle-dependent, but the boxer can't remain tucked at all times - there'll be one side potentially revealed at any point when he's going for the hook. Normally chambered fist covers the neck there a lot, though, yeah- it depends how tight he's keeping things. But why do you say carotid shots would mostly be annoying? You don't think they could be effective?
@@Erime The hand doesn't exactly dart out forwards to "chop" at the carotid artery without any telegraph, maybe jab into but not chop. This is of course, unless you could set it up like how one would with a swift lead hook, and there's always the element of surprise that comes with "illegal" strikes. And yes, you could use it as a counter-strike in case a man decides to throw a power shot at you, hooks and haymakers in particular.
Also, I did not say carotid shots aren't effective. I specifically noted that they won't be effective with a knife hand, as you might as well close your fist and guarantee a lights out as there is more structure and force with a fist than there is with an open hand, and you're effectively striking at the same range as you would with open hands. Now, you might get a pencil necked bum here and there with this strike, but I won't count on that if I were you. What if you run into someone with a neck thicker than your thighs? Or bench presses a decent amount of weight from the neck bridge position? That type of stuff. A good hook to the button by comparison has a chance to wobble just about anyone, unless there's a 40kg size difference or you end up running into GGG or Rodtang, or a shot straight to the throat. Though, to be fair. You might as well have that strike in your arsenal, it doesn't hurt especially if you can tell that someone really is pencil necked and will go down.
However, you could go ahead and bash the arteries or any part of the neck for that matter with the significantly harder bones of the forearm or a hammerfist either closing the distance or ending up in the range between clinching and boxing, or within a clinch. Much more force could be applied if you know how to swing your weight with it.
In the 1988 I knew a Wing Chun teacher called Sifu Garry McKenzie he was a boxer who trained in Wing Chun from Simon Lau, after learning Wing Chun he combined the footwork and other aspects of boxing with Wing Chun. He mixed what worked. He was a doorman and a debt collector so he put what he knew to the test. He trained hard and boxed clever, I think he was learning Jujitsu in 1990s so he could take the fight to the ground.
This was fun to watch, the boxer's a cool dude 😄.
Yeah. He and qi la la are the two I talk to the most in the Taiwan martial arts circuit.
I’m not familiar with if some of the unarmed styles are supposed to advance their training into weapons, but some of the techniques appear as if they would flow into trap and stab and control really well especially with like a reverse grip dagger much like some Filipino Martial arts styles.
Yep! Definitely can see that!
I agree. There's always an element of tripping and takedown once the distance is closed, and the arms are trapped. If it's pure boxing, then staying in range is good way to end up eating combos (especially if there is no head movement whatsoever.). Except for the first guy, the Kung Fu footwork looked good. Nice to see them pressure testing their styles.
some people say that Wing Chun makes a lot more sense with knife or short sword fighting, which I can definitely see in some stuff like the circular chain punching being a lot more terrifying if someone's whirling a couple of short slashing knives at you
@@Autonamatonamaton Yup. Hammer fists make much more sense with bladed force multipliers. You don’t need to use your balance as much for weight shifting to generate as much follow through for unarmored combat.
You just need to nick the right place at the same time as keeping the other guy from nicking you or disturb their power generation/balance chain if they have a blunt weapon or are fist fighting.
As a long time kung fu rat, I can tell you that today's kung fu is nothing like what it probably was generations ago. But it could find its way back with enough hard work.
It's good to spar with boxers.
They did pretty good actually and props to the boxesr for being a helpful sparring partner and just beating em down cause of any ego.
This illustrates how hard it is to trap a punch. There are a few instances where the kung fu guys try, but the boxers' hands and arms have a mind of their own and aren't sticking around to be cranked on.
Not to mention that most of the time, especially if the boxer is fighting bare knuckle ironically, hand trapping is going to be much more difficult as a hard strike going quickly is reduced to the size of a fist. And it WILL go through unless you've set everything up beforehand. Not to mention that you have to trap both hands so that you don't get smashed in the face.
@@joh_kun5530 Trapping barefist is easier actually. You don't trap the fists, EVER. You trap the forearm or the elbow joint, while slightly moving your head, assuming you're doing an outside slapping block. Of course, the guy has to know what he's doing. anybody who's looking only to trap hands in a fight is looking to trap himself. There's a time and place for everything. Please dont speak on the matter like it's completely useless, it works. I've done it in sparring.
@@jkdfighter4964 To be fair, yeah you can trap the rest of the arm to prevent strikes from coming on, or if you have a tight high guard or some form of a crossguard as a passive shunt to prevent blows from coming in with any real power. Long guard has proven this to be quite effective via bicep frames, forearm frames or elbow frames. Issue is, for a lot of Kung Fu schools, they specifically go for the hands and over-exaggerate the motions of trapping or parrying to either defend or to counter, which leaves them quite open for follow ups. Not to mention that a lot of them don't even have basic head movement and leave their chin out as wide as the open steppes of Mongolia. This is a mistake even high level fighters like Sean Strickland make, and that's what got him slept with a left hook from hell as he was anticipating a jab and went on to sink his hands down to catch that supposed jabbing hand. A perfect directional feint set up by his respect of the jab.
They did well IMO. The hammer fists without gloves can also transition to grabs and pulls ala grappling handfighting, though with gloves they can be still used to open up or peel defenses. The swinging angles can also be used for forearms and elbows. "In the streets" these angles are perfect for when holding objects. Anyway of course people shouldn't only use hammerfists and these should be used with normal strikes too
You can see the boxer is holding back, big time.
I think a hammer fist to a temple is really dangerous, especially without gloves where punching someone in the head using a standard closed fist might result with a broken hand.
1:15 Never change Jerry, never change
Yes! That was an awesome strike!
I wonder if they have ever seen pro boxers and how it is when they go all out or going to finish a person. Even though the attacks are fast they have kinetic link to the ground. These KF fighters are trying to hit as fast as they can but not linking or making the attacks flow together well. The best thing that happened to the 5 guys was that they got hit in the body and face. Seriously, that is so important for growth as a fighter.
Exactly. There’s a way to throw those hammer-like strikes and do damage, but these five didn’t do it. These five were almost playing “every time I hit him I get credit,” which isn’t how it works when you take a boxer on.
One thing to keep in mind for the patty cake guy, is that high volume might work in the street JUST BECAUSE you might get their eye and that's the only reason. In a no glove situation, power punching is nerfed heavily because you risk breaking your hand. So it's more open palm smacks and probably gouging and jolting the neck, elbows, body checking.
The slap fu is probably still very weak in that context, but the eye stuff is not to be underestimated...
A higher guard and catch counters for someone prepared is a good counter for a lot of that shit. Patty cake guy in the streets could easily get overzealous trying to get all of the vulnerables and he runs into an elbow straight to the jaw, or a lead hand trap to hook counter whilst the strikes are being defended by said higher guard.
to add to my last comment though, i would say that these kung fu guys arent applying their hammerfists in proper context. its awesome to see them doing it at all, but usually these hamemrfists are supposed to come with grabs and grapples to force someone into position momentarily for the hits.
aditonally, theyre trying to use their hammerfists in a boxing context, which causes them to come out as arm flicks. it doesnt do a ton of damage, and it tires the arms out quickly. theyre trying *really hard* to "Look" like kung fu. and its working against their favor. styles arent about "form" but about substance. its not how it looks. its the mechanics. just like aikido isnt about "looking effortless and mystical" its about mastering Aiki, and expressing it however it comes out.
Also pro tip: boxing in the XIX. century actually contained hammerfists (and even turning backfists).
I think these kung fu guys are better than 95% of kung fu guys who don't actually spar. Those hammer fist could be deadly on the street by the way. You just need to connect them.
i would argue that the hammerfists would do more damage without gloves, because they would be able to aim them at better targets (temple, nose, upper lip, eye/brow, ear, back of head etc). Also, without the gloves, the impact is less "spongy" so more blunt force transfers quickly instead of dissipating. same as a bareknuckle punch that causes a cut, vs a punch with a glove. (though to a less extreme extent)
Boxing gloves weaken the force of backfist punches which hurt alot without said gloves.
No hammer fists do more damage in gloves than a punch. We use spinning back fists in muay thai and kickboxing because there's less padding on that part of the glove. A Kung Fu hammer fist is just weak.
@@lolcatjuniorbecause 16 ounces gloves are too heavy for a Kung Fu fighter to carry
@@moustachio334 Have you ever seen MMA ground pound before? Hammer fists work and do damage. 16oz gloves are more heavy because they have more padding. Punches are more powerful without the gloves on.
That's a really good point at the end. If your could start with chain punches and get someone to shell and _then_ hit them _before_ they answer with a hook.
Couldn't agree more. These guys have a higher volume of strikes than the boxer but those strikes are not as powerful as the ones that the boxer threw.
There was ONE good one at 1:15 but the moment these guys started playing patty cake, it just looked sloppy and no power.
One of the main propositions with kung fu is the idea that one can generate a lot of power in relatively short distance & from odd angles. I've yet to see it performed on a non-compliant opponent yet.
Kung fu guys did pretty good i think! Looks like they were all having fun. I'm not sure why we're talking about power and damage when this looks like a pretty light sparring session even when they turned it up. Doesn't look like anyone was really trying to rock each other so I'd reserve judgement. If they want to get more power in their strikes they're gonna need some more hip rotation and whipping power generation with their shoulders, if they have this issue even when striking with power they could probably fix that with some heavy bag work, and even without too much power those kinds of strikes do enough to set you up for a throw or seizing and grasping which is traditionally more what it's supposed to be about than exchanging strike for strike. But in a friendly sparring session where you're just trying to show your stuff I don't see too much of a point. Xiaopan did pretty decently on control too though yeah he turned it up a bit towards the end. Arguably too much for a light-ish sparring session since at 5:46 the kung fu guy knocked his foot against the tripod and Xiaopan capitalized on the distraction with a right cross lol. No harm done and of course, defend yourselves at all time, but still wanted to point it out. All the kung fu guys could be a bit more defensively responsible when they're up close and exchanging strikes like that. Having your arms out is okay if your aim is to clinch up, grab them, or quickly set up a sweep like kung fu traditionally should, but if you're up close trading with a boxer you're gonna need to protect yourself more.
Once Boxpan leaves a comment, I will pin it. Until then, his channel is linked in the endcards, description, and mid video cards. 拳击小潘，有时间留个评论。我马上把你的评论顶到最上面。
It seems fairly obvious to me Brother Box Pan is taking it easy. It’s sparing, not a Smoker.
Can you check out Dark Room fights?
They have a kickboxer vs boxer fight there, but with only hand wraps.
I’ll take a look! Thank you for the lead! Do you have a link?
@@FightCommentary
th-cam.com/video/QnBhd0W0hho/w-d-xo.html
There ya go
The boxer was good, with some possible ko punches.
He did 5 rounds against 5 different opponents, without gassing out.
You could tell he was not trying very hard.
those kungfu techniques seem like a great fuse with muay thai/boxing/kick boxing. throwing some high volume hammer fist on a good oppening then work the body. or use the circular kungfu back fist jab as an exit for punch combos to get more fluidity in. great video. respect to the boxer and kungfu guys.
You said the hammerfists weren’t doing too much damage. If he was making contact with the gloves on if you take the gloves off then the hammer fists can become Tiger claws to the eyes/face thereby increasing the damage. In other words the hammer fists can represent other things, albeit just as the boxer’s strikes could as well. Just sayin.
Those hits would be deadly with a knife, seems like hammer fist style punch would fit perfectly with a knife
Box pan is very formidable, anyone doubting that is delusional lol.
The biggest advantage of hammer and backfists in a self defense scenario is that you can throw them full power without breaking or roughing up your hands as easily, especially if you are targeting hard body parts like the skull.
And I'm right there with you on the implementation by these kung fu guys. They knew how to throw combos that landed a lot but some of them, especially the fifth one with the headgear, he wasn't putting neither hip rotation nor stepping into his strikes. So it was plain simply peppering even if he would have done them full force. Any moderatelly skilled fighter can take those and trade them for power blows all day. The first kung fu guys did a better job of putting power behind the strikes but the mistake they all had in common was that they basically did nothing but hamer and backfist combos. Just like those wing chun guys that only walk forward chain punching, that makes you very easy to figure out. Those combos can be effective and you can certainly learn how to put power behind them, I have received some hammerfists to the top and sides of my head from my teachers when doing hard sparring that were very stunning, but these guys need to start mixing it up with more common/universal strikes so their gameplan is not too simple and predictable.
With all that said, it's beautifull to see kung fu people fearlessly testing their style. All of these practitioners can only improve with the right mindset. And I hope Box Pan keeps going to these gyms, he is doing wonders for the TCMA community that actually wants to put kung fu where it belongs 😊.
I agree, I do wonder what intensity they're all trying to spar at though. For a light-ish sparring session I wouldn't be trying to put everything i've got into my strikes. I will say if you've got just a bit more power in those, having someone swarming you with strikes from weird angles can push you back quite a bit and you can see that in the video. I think those without too much sparring experience tend to either throw too light or too hard, not saying these kung fu guys don't spar but they all throw pretty light, not surprised if that's just how they do things at their school. Don't really wanna say too much against doing that, avoiding CTE is smart, but it doesn't always instill the best fighting habits. Xiaopan wasn't going too hard either, but he's probably used to sparring at a higher intensity than the kung fu guys so his idea of light contact is different than theirs. 5th kung fu guy turned it up quite a bit and swarmed him a lot after seeing what happened with the others lol.
@@unmessable12 yea, it's hard to judge just from this one video if the guys that were just peppering were doing so out of control, and not a lack of technique on power generation. I wholeheartedly agree that a couple of those combos at full force will put someone on their hills for a moment. If you mix kicks with them you can come up with devastating combinations I'm sure.
Hopefully these guys work on power generation with the bag and/or pads, but I know from my own experience that you can develop the bad habit of being too nice if you don't ever go a little hard in sparring and it ends up showing even in a real fight.
None of them knew how to strike with any power. If you've got the rooting down - planted feet and 'power lines' in Western boxing, you can generate power from a shoulder strike at close range, even. Not sure what the rules were in this sparring, though - fist techniques only?
That is what i think too! If yhey use those volume strikes to setup power body blow with kske th more effective
Kungfu guys should adjust their strategy due to the characteristics of their skills. These quick light punches or hammers should be used to control space and timing, but you still need to land a powerful punch, throw, or joint lock to end the fight.
A hammer fist without gloves is different. Much more painful and powerful. And without gloves, the techniques will become more advanced. Specifically with grabs following up the bargurad jams and hammer fists. The gloves limit the true purpose of those strikes while making them less effective and powerful
Bare knuckles from the boxer would TOO much pain for Kung FunClowns
The first and maybe fourth fights were the only ones where the kung fu guys did well
Hammer shots should be criss cross in an X trajectory. Aim for both sides of the neck.
When it comes to hammer fist punches, you use them to protect against breaking your hands.
Punches to the head and face using a straight fist runs a high risk of breaking your hand.
Mike Tyson broke his hand in a street fight but ended up winning the fight with that punch instantly, so there's that
@@-_ellipsis_-5219 Pyrrhic victory is still a victory
@@-_ellipsis_-5219 Mike Tyson only had a hairline fracture in one of his knuckles. And you saw how hard he punches. It's because of the fact that his fists were worth millions of dollars and championships were on the line was it made an issue.
@JOH_KUN I know it wasn't clear, but I'm disagreeing with the sentiment that hammer fists are better on grounds of being "safer", by reason of fists having more KO power and nothing is safer than being the reason the fight ended
*Box Pan has no torque to his punches.. or maybe he's holding back. you never see him punch with his body*
I'd love to hear your take on Jeff Chans recent upload vs Kung Fu.
Death by a thousand cuts only works if your opponent is willing to stand there and get cut without striking back.
Good point
I mean death by thousand cuts also works if well you could do meaningful damage.
Even if you stand thete still and i girly slap you for a whole 30 seconds, i doubt those wouldnt do any damage at all.
Someone hey Brother long time no speak. I know I don't comment enough but keep doing what you doing.
Chi-Town out!
I feel like those light Hammer fists could be useful for setting up bigger heavier shots.
fourth kung fu guy was outclassed but he was very good too he got some sicks parries and some good hits
Good points covered in this video
The boxer increased the pace at each "round". Interesting sparring anyway. The Kungfu students at least tried what they learn, it's wasn't the usual haymakers.
Cool vidéo, however the techniques like hammer fist were not thrown with power. They didn’t put their whole bodies into them.
And the last guy was just throwing punches and hammer fists without hip/body movement
Hammer fists when thrown the right way, are pretty painful 😅
Yep
I agree with that sentiment that I think these guys would do fine in a street confrontation. They're at least willing to trade blows and your average idiot is probably going to panic and back off with that peppering even if its not exactly doing all that much damage.
Fair play to them.
Kung Fu needs to evolve with some defensive concepts. Hands are always low especially when throwing a punch. Long guard with parrying could work if they don't put up a high guard.
Hammer fist attacks look wild which leaves them wide open for counters. The good thing is that this school is sparring and pressure testing their techniques with other martial arts. Hope they learn from these sessions.
both did well and put up a great fight to sse
The third guy in particular has decent trapping and angles. Without gloves, he could do some good damage.
hammerfist might vibrate your head a lot if you have a lot of power but I don't see it cutting. Maybe it would work even if the opponent has a helmet?
Considering its with gloves and punches only, the kungfu guys did quite good. They should spar him more.
im waiting till the day boxer or mma challenge trad ma without glove and boxing/mma rules..i wanna see trad ma use open palm attack,neck chop,hand locking,grabbing,claw attack etc
How do kung fu guys usually defend against body shots or looping hooks?
Don't underestimate hammer fist, prey mantis or tong long hammer fist is not joke.
I don't try tong long, but I have alot of friend that trained tong long, and the conditioning they have to do makes them hit hard.
I think awhile ago someone hammer fisted a bouncer in a fight and cracked his skull.
Finally, is Boxer Max Pan again. he also made a sparring session with 建棋會館
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Hammer-fists are devastating, just like hooks but the kung fu guys were holding back as was the boxer, because this was not a full on challenge!
Hammerfists can definitely knock someone out in the right situation, but the average hammerfist is objectively weaker than a hook just based on physics. With a hook you have your entire forearm behind the punch like you're thrusting a spear, where hammerfists are more like whacking someone with a stick. If you had huge weights on your fists then a hammerfist would feel more like an actual hammer and do way more damage
@@wynsonrao5177 Certain kung fu styles have extremely powerful hammer fists and to get that power they do special exercises that 'connects' the body. Those hammer-fists can finish fights with one or two strikes as long as the right methodology is followed including 'recording' the strikes into muscle memory.
@@DJAraRealSalsa yeah well a regular punch, or kick, or elbow, or headbutt can end a fight in one hit as well. Like I said it depends on the situation, but regular punches are more reliable because of the physics behind them.
@@wynsonrao5177 depending on how a hammer fist is executed. I recently went to a seminar about a more "realistic" use of knife and we were taught to use full bodyweight strikes with a hammerfist (holding a knife, so that will be a very strong stab). And advantage of this move is that it is really natural, really powerful, and there is a very small chance of injuring the fist (unlike with a straight boxing punch without gloves). They did not used the full body in the strike kind of body mechanism but I don't find any problem with that because it was a friendly training and not a match to knock out the other. Kudos to the guys.
@@wynsonrao5177 I agree, but the hammer fist is reliable because of the physics behind them too. The fact is that some kung fu styles such as certain lineages of Chow Gar (Southern Praying Mantis) use the hammer fist as their main weapon, BUT this technique is developed with certain tendon strengthening and 'connection' exercises very different to the more external approaches to the use of this technique in other kung fu and also Karate styles.
So, what is effective depends on one's own individual training that include the not so obvious development exercises.
I just hope those kung fu people learn boxing for a few months, and not convince themselves they did okay because they touched the boxer with those lightning girly slap thing. That slap thing may be fine as a faint or a surprise, but spamming like that only works in video games and movies.
Yep
i thought one of em was gonna do the snake or the crane i think kung fu is best suited for Hollywood
...if the kf guys are doing iron palm training too...I don't think you should count out the hammer fists, etc.
I was about to joke about your mic looking like a fluffy dog 😅
the boxer would get all of them with some good placed uppercut.
when they come with those, kung fu slaps
If kung fu guys implanted power and more defense they would be excellent fighters
I usually am 100% in agreement, but for the hammer fiists nah, they damage, clear guard with one and cycle that hammer down repeatedly. Without gloves its far worse.
what is the name of their kung fu style?
Pan signature move is the one he called '海底撈'
That’s an awesome name! Do you have the video where he teaches it?
@@FightCommentary th-cam.com/video/Vl-iOrvQC10/w-d-xo.html
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A seafood hotpot chain for a move name? Nice!
I agree, the Kung Fu blows have no power, more of a nuisance.
The boxers are more delved into hard fights than Wing Chun Practitioners, unless Wing practitioners are also agonistic fighters.
I disagree, if you can move your body with the right rotation, you can hit hard, I mean literally look at board breaking, why do you think some martial arts encourage board breaking using either a hammer fist or a chop? Even if most strikes don't do as much damage because of reasons like moving around so you can't really do the rotation, any fighter could do a Ryan Garcia and surprise the opponent with a sudden hard strike that is mixed together with the soft strikes. Also I am guessing that these hammer strikes are meant to be mixed with grappling techniques akin to Roberto Duran. Also I don't think you clarified if this was meant to be a serious fight or a friendly spar but point is that there is a chance they are holding back so I doubt these any of these fighters were trying to knock each other out.
No such thing as Kungfu in sparring, Kungfu is basically an exhibition art form (of forms). Most if not all contact sparring resorts to boxing in some form or another in the end. Just an opinion, comments anyone.
FINALLY KUNG FU GUYS THAT LOOK YOUNG, VIBRANT AND DURABLE. ALSO WILLING TO GET HIT AND KEEP TRAINING.. NO KICKS VS BOXER? GOT KICK TO SEE HOW A BOXER RESPONDS TO KUNG FU KICKS
Boxer is using more head movement and body shots than his opponents.
But clearly these guys are definitely training better than a lot of king fu guys. Good for them!
hammer fist are cool, but he keeps hitting the guard
There’s no such thing as semi pro, it’s called white collar (unlicensed)
Also occurs to me that the boxer is heavily pulling his punches. A lot of the strikes he landed would likely have ended the fights had he been trying to hurt them, even a little
Yep. Very respectful constructive sparring.
Boxer is just playing with them
What kung fu is this i did goju ro and we dont do hammer fist
Is the first guy in black a Choy Li Fu practitioner?
I’ll ask boxpan. Hopefully he can make a comment soon that I can pin.
Watching the kung fu guys was kind of sad and cringey at the same time. R.I.P kung fu. You looked great in the movies.
Kungfu can be effective if they protect their chins.
Kungfu is attack n defence mode.
Plus is rich 👍 in techniques..
But nothing of the above two I could see.
It appeared boxer due to better body toughness has n upper hand.
Hey man, you can't win a spar. 😄
What you don't understand is a boxer uses his hands.
Kung fu uses every body part.
In real.
Box pan would have lost every time
Man. Those are 2 different styles. Giving handicap to the kung fu guy (not using his legs) already makes the fight unfair, not to mention that he has to wear gloves where he can t apply no maneuvers. And i m just making common sense observations i m not a martial arts or boxing practitioner.
don't see the point in this - should be without gloves and rules, only then can you gauge what might be more effective
how are you suppose to crush someones windpipe with gloves like that on?
I think it's a light sparring. Hammer fist doesn't look strong because of that.
I’d barely call this guy a boxer, but even still this speaks volumes on “kung fu”.
How could you be so biased? They were going light at each other that's why the kung fu fighters threw less forceful strikes neither did the boxer throw forceful punches.
Don't deem it as kung fu strikes are 'weak'.
the kung fu guys need to train with dumb bells, wrist weights and swing Indian clubs. They have no power nor control of their punches. Also no stamina, so skipping. Their hammer punches could then be knockout punches. Finally, not "grounded", so no power in the punches. Dance, bob and weave, but ground your feet before you deliver.
Why can't they use legs
no kicks?
Why was the boxer going easy on these guys or was it because he is not a very good boxer?
Boxer like very big beginner.
that sweeping arm motion has no power, it does nothing defensively, and is telegraphed...
Yep