I was suffering with hiccups for nearly an hour before watching your videos. Whilst watching you attempting to snap the piston ring, I was transfixed, and in doing so my hiccups ended. So double thanks for not only another intelligent, interesting and well made educational film, but also for curing my hiccups! 😂👏👏👍😀
Ha ha - thanks Steve. Those rings are certainly fine and delicate. Earl suggests that I should have held the ring in the top corner of the vice, with only a small amount of the ring held in the jaws. I think he is right, but 3 out of 4 isn't too bad. Cheers Andrew
Gday Andrew, the rings turned out perfect, this is the first time I’ve seen this done and the steps explained, throughly enjoyed watching mate, thank you, cheers Matty
Thanks Earl - and thanks for those detailed instructions. I would have definitely struggled without your help and advice. The cylinder block! Another challenge! All the best. Andrew
Fantastic! My heart was in my mouth for most of that. Congratulations and well done - you've gained another 'belt' in Model Engineering. I'll use this as a reference when I graduate from 'O' rings ;)
Thanks mate! It was a bit hairy scary. Next time I will cut more rings in order to take the pressure off me when doing the remaining processes. All signs are that Earl's method definitely seems to work. Fingers crossed they will perform well on completion of the engine. I still have my o-ring waiting in the wings! Cheers Andrew
Andrew the rings do drop of the spacing peg after they have been held at red heat for a while probably just a little longer. I'm sure yours will be serviceable however as they are nice and springy. Nice job.
Ah yes, Thursday morning coffee with Andrew. Going to have to give that a try with my " Odds and Ends engine see if I can't get compression back. Cheers!
Ha ha Richard - I did manage to keep it to less than 30 minutes! I wonder if you could check your compression beforehand to see if there is leakage between the rings and the cylinder? I'm starting the think about making the cylinder block and I think that there is a risk of leakage between the cylinder and block if I don't get a really good press fit. Not the best of designs, and once pressed in I doubt it will be possible to get it out again. I hope you manage to get your engine running again. Have a great day in your workshop! All the best. Andrew
Hi Andrew Great job making your Rings. This method works so well and is fairly easy there is really no reason to purchase Rings. Again wonderful job and good luck with your engine build. Willy
Hi Willy Many thanks for the encouragement. I'm really chuffed that the rings turned out well. Fingers crossed the test of the build will go well too. All the best. Andrew
Wow! Proper precision engineering. Very impressed with that result. Congratulations on a really nice piece of work. All that homework in advance paid off in the end.
Thanks Tim! The detailed instructions from Earl were a godsend. I would have really struggled without them. Hopefully others will be able to follow this method with success. I'm still blown away by being able to make something to within a tenth of a thou! Cheers Andrew
Thanks Buzz. I must admit that I thought it might turn out to be a bit of a disaster. I would have struggled without Earl's help. As you can see, the process I followed is pretty straight forward. I hope you get a similar result. Good luck! Andrew
Andrew, On thin bores of cast iron to stop chatter I remember to stop the tool chattering is use a piece of wood and hold it on the surface of thin bore with one hand when parting off. The other method was to lower the parting off blade below the centre line. Hope that may help you. Nice job on the rings. It was very interesting indeed.
Great video , first for me seeing someone make rings 👍 , May try this later on , so far I have been lucky enough to find rings that fit my hit and miss Engines , although they be from a car or tractor . Thanks for the video and your time .
thank you sir great video . i'm building A webster engine and I think I will try to make a pair of cast rings instead of delrin acitel rings as I had at first intended. . yours work so nice, perfect fit .great workmanship on your very first try ,hope I can do as well .
Thanks Ray. It's definitely worthwhile having a go and experimenting. It's a pretty straightforward process and very rewarding when they work. I'm not familiar with the Webster engine, but you will need at least two rings for each piston. I hope it works out well for you. Cheers Andrew
To cut the rings to width, I’ve taken to using my tool post mounted dremel tool with a thin cutting wheel. It leaves a very nice edge, and afterwards just polishing both faces on some 400 grit paper with oil on a sheet of glass cleans them up beautifully. I then break and clean up the ends of the break with some paper before putting them under the torch to expand them.
Hi Andrew, well done, really good end result. If I may offer some experience to help you next time on similar jobs (please don't take as critical, it's not meant this way at all). Earl was correct with bore out first, or at least rough out first. For something this critical when you are splitting thous, it is always good practice to get all your major material removal out the way (bore & O/D) before finishing any feature. This way you don't risk introducing eccentricity through either the part moving in the chuck, or simply the material stress relieving as a result of large percentage mass removal. As I said, great job and well done, your pleasure is written all over your face and rightly so. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon - many thanks for the advice. That makes a lot of sense. I will try to remember that! Yeah - I am pretty happy with the way it turned out. Cheers Andrew
Nice job Andrew. You've inspired me to have a go at making a cast iron ring for my Farm Boy engine instead of the O-ring. I was worried that you'd have to cut the ring and end up with the diameter too small and a gap, and hadn't expected you to simply crack it to get the split. We grind the ends of rings down when we build racing engines to allow a couple of thou for expansion, but with these small engines that may not be an issue. Very nice video!
Thanks Tony. Breaking the rings was a little scary. Earl has since advised me that I should have held the ring in the top corner of the vice, with most of the ring exposed. That way the ring should break easier. As I mentioned in the video, a couple of rings just needed a very fine sanding of the broken faces. Fingers crossed expansion won't be an issue - time will tell. Cheers Andrew
Well done. As always, very good footage giving a very enjoyable video. You turned the diameter of the raw stock to the same diameter as the cylinder bore. Remembering the pistongrings I changed being young a resting piston ring had an OD slightly larger then the cylinder bore. In the end of the video You mounted the rings on the piston and now they look like having a larger OD. What did I miss? The way of polishing the width of the rings was great.
When Andrew heated the rings the gaps were spread slightly by the wedge that was holding the ring. This gave the ring some "set" so that when the ring is fitted in a cylinder it has some outward spring to it which helps it seal against the cylinder wall.
Are you sure that you have never done anything like this before? You either planned it out 24 hours a day for a week or so, or, you’re a master machinist of the mini machine shop. Great job, either way.
Ha ha - thanks mate! This was definitely my first attempt at machining piston rings. I really enjoy challenges - especially when they seem to work out well! All the best. Andrew
@@learningturningmetal I have made a few things on my mini lathe but I am still green as grass. I have more experience on the milling machine and with a CNC machine. I ran a Chrysler lathe in middle school but that was about 47 years ago
@@taranson3057 I found my mini lathe to be highly accurate and it would be have definitely been capable of making piston rings using this method. I hope you give it a try sometime. All the best. Andrew
@@learningturningmetal my mini lathe isn’t terribly bad for what it is. I have been making modifications to the lathe to make it more rigid. Currently working on a motor upgrade and installing a brushless servo that has a lot more torque.
I have had good luck by cutting the ring gap first before machining it. In other words, make an oversized cylinder and cut that longwise. (That is the rough gap). Then clamp it shut with the 3-jaw chuck and machine it perfect. When you part it off it springs open. I never had any luck snapping or cutting them after machining. I always butcher the edge and a ring requires all sides to be polished, not just the outside.
@@learningturningmetal the process that you took was what I would do, I was thinking more in lines with reducing material waste but then I realized how little material was actually being cut to make the rings. Not to mention that trepanning may not be as accurate a method, especially for the green as grass newbie, such as myself. 😜
Hi Ron I made this engine alongside Earl, who also made one in the USA. I refer to the 'Earl method' as Earl suggested his method to me via several emails to me. I don't have a consolidated description of his method. However, to the best of my knowledge, all the key aspects of the method are included in this video. It really is a straight forward process and I have now used it several times with total success. Each time, I refer to this video to remind me of what I need to do. Good luck. Andrew
Hola, hay más información sobre las medidas de los anillos de pistón en mi video de Jerry Howell sobre el motor bicilíndrico en V n.#MT49, parte 12. Espero que te sirva. Saludos. Andrew
Hi Andrew. I just purchased the Philip Duclos books you showed. I am new at making these engines. The ones in the books look a little advanced. Can you recommend an engine that would be a good starting place for a new to the hobby person? I am new to metal working but have all the equipment I need to build one. Thanks
Hi Dale - when I started machining a couple of years ago, I found drawings a little difficult to understand. My first engine was a little wobbler, which I produced drawings for. It only takes a day or two to make - mainly from aluminium. I made three videos (#MT20) and you can download the drawings from a link in the video description. Making this little engine got me hooked. I found the Stuart S50 a great little 'starter' engine, and a good way to become familiar with drawings. However the S50 casting kit needs to be purchased. As MisterG suggests, the Duclos Huff n Puff looks like a good starter engine - though it is quite a tiny engine. Material costs should be minimal too. I hope that helps. Cheers Andrew
Hi Ross - fair point. I wouldn't normally use WD-40 on CI. However, when trying to machine to within tenths of a thou, Earl and I thought it might be wise to lubricate. Looking at the Trimble article in Strictly IC, he uses an India stone with kerosene to remove tool marks and then polishes dry with 400 wet or dry paper. That seems like a better approach and one for me to try next time. I just need to get some medium and dry India stone! Thanks for the feedback. Cheers Andrew
@@learningturningmetal It might have helped by inadvertently cooling the work piece. The free graphite in cast iron provides all the lubrication necessary.
I was suffering with hiccups for nearly an hour before watching your videos. Whilst watching you attempting to snap the piston ring, I was transfixed, and in doing so my hiccups ended. So double thanks for not only another intelligent, interesting and well made educational film, but also for curing my hiccups! 😂👏👏👍😀
Ha ha - mind you, trying to snap those rings was a bit scary. Next time I'll make a lot more - just in case!
All the best.
Andrew
You look like a kid in a sweet shop at the end. And justifiably so. 👍😎
Ha ha Graham - mind you I was pretty chuffed.
All the best.
Andrew
Hi Andrew, another fine piece of work as usual. I can now uncross my toes and fingers after watching you break that first piston ring.
Ha ha - thanks Steve. Those rings are certainly fine and delicate. Earl suggests that I should have held the ring in the top corner of the vice, with only a small amount of the ring held in the jaws. I think he is right, but 3 out of 4 isn't too bad.
Cheers
Andrew
@@learningturningmetal Yes, I thought the same as Earl. More flexibility in the ring would make the break more reliable.
Thanks Andrew for you reply on the Ear method of piston ring make. I just found on Facebook
Great work I learned something new. 👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks Lisa!
Thanks for taking the time to make this video.. this will definitely help me when I get to making rings for my IC build, I was dreading making them 😉
Thanks Colin - it's certainly not as daunting as I thought it might be.
Good luck!
Andrew
Gday Andrew, the rings turned out perfect, this is the first time I’ve seen this done and the steps explained, throughly enjoyed watching mate, thank you, cheers Matty
Cheers Matty 👍
That's really impressive.
Thanks John!
Well done ! Now on to the Cylinder Block.
Thanks Earl - and thanks for those detailed instructions. I would have definitely struggled without your help and advice.
The cylinder block! Another challenge!
All the best.
Andrew
Thanks for sharing!
Cheers Craig!
great job Andrew. an important step completed with these rings.
bfn
Fantastic! My heart was in my mouth for most of that. Congratulations and well done - you've gained another 'belt' in Model Engineering. I'll use this as a reference when I graduate from 'O' rings ;)
Thanks mate! It was a bit hairy scary. Next time I will cut more rings in order to take the pressure off me when doing the remaining processes. All signs are that Earl's method definitely seems to work. Fingers crossed they will perform well on completion of the engine. I still have my o-ring waiting in the wings!
Cheers
Andrew
Andrew the rings do drop of the spacing peg after they have been held at red heat for a while probably just a little longer. I'm sure yours will be serviceable however as they are nice and springy. Nice job.
Thanks Brian. That's reassuring.
All the best.
Andrew
Cracking job, well done Andrew.
Cheers Len!
Ah yes, Thursday morning coffee with Andrew. Going to have to give that a try with my " Odds and Ends engine see if I can't get compression back. Cheers!
Ha ha Richard - I did manage to keep it to less than 30 minutes! I wonder if you could check your compression beforehand to see if there is leakage between the rings and the cylinder? I'm starting the think about making the cylinder block and I think that there is a risk of leakage between the cylinder and block if I don't get a really good press fit. Not the best of designs, and once pressed in I doubt it will be possible to get it out again. I hope you manage to get your engine running again. Have a great day in your workshop!
All the best.
Andrew
Nice video! Nice work!
Thanks mate!
Hi Andrew
Great job making your Rings. This method works so well and is fairly easy there is really no reason to purchase Rings.
Again wonderful job and good luck with your engine build.
Willy
Hi Willy
Many thanks for the encouragement.
I'm really chuffed that the rings turned out well. Fingers crossed the test of the build will go well too.
All the best.
Andrew
Wow! Proper precision engineering. Very impressed with that result. Congratulations on a really nice piece of work. All that homework in advance paid off in the end.
Thanks Tim! The detailed instructions from Earl were a godsend. I would have really struggled without them. Hopefully others will be able to follow this method with success.
I'm still blown away by being able to make something to within a tenth of a thou!
Cheers
Andrew
Great job
Thanks Brad!
Hello Andrew,
Very nice work... clearly one happy Andrew... See you on the next one...
Take care.
Paul,,
Thanks Paul - happy as an Easter bunny!
All the best.
Andrew
brilliant job Andrew. I've been dying to have a go at some piston rings . You have de mystified the process for me.
Buzz
Thanks Buzz. I must admit that I thought it might turn out to be a bit of a disaster. I would have struggled without Earl's help. As you can see, the process I followed is pretty straight forward. I hope you get a similar result.
Good luck!
Andrew
Nice work Andrew. We all make silly mistakes sometimes, but I'm glad you didn't wreck the part when the parting tool grabbed. All the best.
Thanks mate. Unfortunately it's quite a common mistake I make. I must take more time to double-check things.
Cheers
Andrew
Nice work Andrew. another fine job done
Thanks Nigel!
Well done .
Thanks Nicholas!
Andrew, On thin bores of cast iron to stop chatter I remember to stop the tool chattering is use a piece of wood and hold it on the surface of thin bore with one hand when parting off. The other method was to lower the parting off blade below the centre line. Hope that may help you. Nice job on the rings. It was very interesting indeed.
Thanks for the tips Gary - very much appreciated.
Cheers
Andrew
Great video , first for me seeing someone make rings 👍 , May try this later on , so far I have been lucky enough to find rings that fit my hit and miss Engines , although they be from a car or tractor . Thanks for the video and your time .
Thanks mate - I definitely recommend this method. I do hope you give it a try.
Cheers
Andrew
Nice work
Thanks Rusty - they worked a treat too!
Cheers
Andrew
thank you sir great video . i'm building A webster engine and I think I will try to make a pair of cast rings instead of delrin acitel rings as I had at first intended. . yours work so nice, perfect fit .great workmanship on your very first try ,hope I can do as well .
Thanks Ray. It's definitely worthwhile having a go and experimenting. It's a pretty straightforward process and very rewarding when they work. I'm not familiar with the Webster engine, but you will need at least two rings for each piston.
I hope it works out well for you.
Cheers
Andrew
To cut the rings to width, I’ve taken to using my tool post mounted dremel tool with a thin cutting wheel. It leaves a very nice edge, and afterwards just polishing both faces on some 400 grit paper with oil on a sheet of glass cleans them up beautifully. I then break and clean up the ends of the break with some paper before putting them under the torch to expand them.
Hi John, that's an interesting approach. I must get round to making a lathe mounting bracket for my proxxon.
All the best.
Andrew
Hi Andrew, another skill learn't and added to the list. Great video and well explained. Regards Kevin
Thanks Kevin - hopefully the rings will perform well on final assembly. I definitely recommend giving this method a try.
All the best.
Andrew
Hi Andrew, well done, really good end result. If I may offer some experience to help you next time on similar jobs (please don't take as critical, it's not meant this way at all). Earl was correct with bore out first, or at least rough out first. For something this critical when you are splitting thous, it is always good practice to get all your major material removal out the way (bore & O/D) before finishing any feature. This way you don't risk introducing eccentricity through either the part moving in the chuck, or simply the material stress relieving as a result of large percentage mass removal. As I said, great job and well done, your pleasure is written all over your face and rightly so. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon - many thanks for the advice. That makes a lot of sense. I will try to remember that! Yeah - I am pretty happy with the way it turned out.
Cheers
Andrew
nice job
Thanks Oscar!
Nice job Andrew. You've inspired me to have a go at making a cast iron ring for my Farm Boy engine instead of the O-ring. I was worried that you'd have to cut the ring and end up with the diameter too small and a gap, and hadn't expected you to simply crack it to get the split. We grind the ends of rings down when we build racing engines to allow a couple of thou for expansion, but with these small engines that may not be an issue. Very nice video!
Thanks Tony. Breaking the rings was a little scary. Earl has since advised me that I should have held the ring in the top corner of the vice, with most of the ring exposed. That way the ring should break easier. As I mentioned in the video, a couple of rings just needed a very fine sanding of the broken faces. Fingers crossed expansion won't be an issue - time will tell.
Cheers
Andrew
Well done. As always, very good footage giving a very enjoyable video.
You turned the diameter of the raw stock to the same diameter as the cylinder bore. Remembering the pistongrings I changed being young a resting piston ring had an OD slightly larger then the cylinder bore. In the end of the video You mounted the rings on the piston and now they look like having a larger OD. What did I miss?
The way of polishing the width of the rings was great.
When Andrew heated the rings the gaps were spread slightly by the wedge that was holding the ring. This gave the ring some "set" so that when the ring is fitted in a cylinder it has some outward spring to it which helps it seal against the cylinder wall.
@@johncrowley5612 Thanks. I didn't catch that detail.
Thanks Stefan - I see John has beaten me in explaining.
All the best.
Andrew
Nice one next video when your ready
Ha ha - thanks Dave. There might be a slight delay in proceedings, as I've now been assigned some DIY tasks!
Cheers
Andrew
Lovely work!
Thanks John!
Are you sure that you have never done anything like this before? You either planned it out 24 hours a day for a week or so, or, you’re a master machinist of the mini machine shop. Great job, either way.
Ha ha - thanks mate! This was definitely my first attempt at machining piston rings. I really enjoy challenges - especially when they seem to work out well!
All the best.
Andrew
@@learningturningmetal I have made a few things on my mini lathe but I am still green as grass. I have more experience on the milling machine and with a CNC machine. I ran a Chrysler lathe in middle school but that was about 47 years ago
@@taranson3057 I found my mini lathe to be highly accurate and it would be have definitely been capable of making piston rings using this method. I hope you give it a try sometime.
All the best.
Andrew
@@learningturningmetal my mini lathe isn’t terribly bad for what it is. I have been making modifications to the lathe to make it more rigid. Currently working on a motor upgrade and installing a brushless servo that has a lot more torque.
I have had good luck by cutting the ring gap first before machining it.
In other words, make an oversized cylinder and cut that longwise. (That is the rough gap). Then clamp it shut with the 3-jaw chuck and machine it perfect. When you part it off it springs open.
I never had any luck snapping or cutting them after machining. I always butcher the edge and a ring requires all sides to be polished, not just the outside.
Hi, that sounds like an interesting method. Thanks for the suggestion
Cheers
Andrew
for ring end gap,. top ring running temperature is 250 deg Celsius. 1000 mm rod of cast iron expands length ways 1.1 mm
👍 thanks for the info!
I’m curious to know if trepanning machining could have been used in the process of machining the piston rings.
Hi. I think trepanning would have been possible, but I just tried to make the process as easy as possible.
Cheers
Andrew
@@learningturningmetal the process that you took was what I would do, I was thinking more in lines with reducing material waste but then I realized how little material was actually being cut to make the rings. Not to mention that trepanning may not be as accurate a method, especially for the green as grass newbie, such as myself. 😜
You mention the "Earl" method from USA for making piston rings, can you publish or tell me where to find it?
Thanks. Ron
Hi Ron
I made this engine alongside Earl, who also made one in the USA. I refer to the 'Earl method' as Earl suggested his method to me via several emails to me. I don't have a consolidated description of his method. However, to the best of my knowledge, all the key aspects of the method are included in this video.
It really is a straight forward process and I have now used it several times with total success. Each time, I refer to this video to remind me of what I need to do.
Good luck.
Andrew
Una pregunta
Que hay que tener en cuenta para hacer un anillo de pistón que medidas hace falta saber
Hola, hay más información sobre las medidas de los anillos de pistón en mi video de Jerry Howell sobre el motor bicilíndrico en V n.#MT49, parte 12. Espero que te sirva. Saludos. Andrew
@@learningturningmetal si me vale perfectamente gracias Andrew
Hi Andrew. I just purchased the Philip Duclos books you showed. I am new at making these engines. The ones in the books look a little advanced. Can you recommend an engine that would be a good starting place for a new to the hobby person? I am new to metal working but have all the equipment I need to build one. Thanks
Go for the 'Huff 'n' Puff' - very little material involved, but it will teach you a lot :)
Hi Dale - when I started machining a couple of years ago, I found drawings a little difficult to understand. My first engine was a little wobbler, which I produced drawings for. It only takes a day or two to make - mainly from aluminium. I made three videos (#MT20) and you can download the drawings from a link in the video description. Making this little engine got me hooked. I found the Stuart S50 a great little 'starter' engine, and a good way to become familiar with drawings. However the S50 casting kit needs to be purchased. As MisterG suggests, the Duclos Huff n Puff looks like a good starter engine - though it is quite a tiny engine. Material costs should be minimal too.
I hope that helps.
Cheers
Andrew
very very nice HowTo
Cheers Raik!
Would you consider printing the rotary table parts for me at my cost?
Hi John
Sorry but I don't understand. Could you email me at learningturningmetal@gmail.com to explain?
Cheers
Andrew
i have coppies of the strictly ic articles. email me if you cant get them. they're fairly dry
You don’t need WD40, cast iron is machined dry.
Hi Ross - fair point. I wouldn't normally use WD-40 on CI. However, when trying to machine to within tenths of a thou, Earl and I thought it might be wise to lubricate. Looking at the Trimble article in Strictly IC, he uses an India stone with kerosene to remove tool marks and then polishes dry with 400 wet or dry paper. That seems like a better approach and one for me to try next time. I just need to get some medium and dry India stone!
Thanks for the feedback.
Cheers
Andrew
@@learningturningmetal It might have helped by inadvertently cooling the work piece. The free graphite in cast iron provides all the lubrication necessary.
The work is proceeding quite well. Thanks for the look.
Thanks John.
All the best.
Andrew
Great job.
Cheers mate!