Great lecture, professor. I whole agree with your assessment of the proximity of Confucius and Plato's project at 15:00 but I would say that they are even closer than you portrayed. That's because Plato doesn't actually forbit poetry 'per se' but only the dramatic poets which are detrimental to properly educating one's soul. Even so, he still allows for poetry which sings for virtue, heroism, and truth, specially for the education of children. Besides that, he still claims that he is willing to hear out good arguments((even if written in prose) in defense for the educational use of poetry, especially of Homer.
I agree that Plato's views are more nuanced than I let on in the lecture. I just wanted to stimulate people to start thinking about the potential role of poetry and other kinds of imaginative literature in ethical cultivation.
@@BryanVanNordenPhilosophy You're right, professor! Lectures have to be simplified, otherwise we get lost on details and never progress. Thank you for posting them and keep em' coming, because they are are great.
Great class, great video. Really was needing that. I constantly argued with myself about most of those topics and a few days back I was searching about the philosophy of human being good. And suddenly I realized how not much people in the west agrees and even questions about it. :( Which led me to the confucionism and Mengzi teachings. Which I myself agree pretty much.
Hi, Prof. Norden. I'm studying Mengzi in class, but I'm still confused about 「自賊者也；謂其君不能者，賊其君者也。」What does 賊 mean here in English instead of "steal"? probably "damage"?
T'ien Ming (Decree of Heaven). I consider "T'ien" as a metaphysical allegory for morality in it's purest state present in all of man. That's just my take of that term. In a Confucian sense of course.
It seems @8:30 “two surviving schools” ignores Han Fei’s legalism which was somewhat Dao De Jing linked and criticized the Confucian school. We know it survived, though perhaps quietly, because of the CPC today. Without legalism, ruism is too one-sided to run society. You need both morality and law.
I'm a Neo-Confucian and I'm going to say something that can be seen as heresy. In The Analects, Confucius claimed that righteousness is the most standard rule of the rites. And also how it's almost irrefutable. But he's my argument towards it, what if a malevolent sovereign comes into power and makes his wicked rule law? So if any were to oppose it It would be considered unrighteous ... because it's law. I think one should always pursue what's morally just then of who is in power would consider "right".
What a wonderful public resource. Thank you for sharing your lectures!
Thank you for posting such an amazing lecture! Mengzi and Mozi. Mozi is practical but Mengzi is the Second Sage of the East.
Great lecture, professor. I whole agree with your assessment of the proximity of Confucius and Plato's project at 15:00 but I would say that they are even closer than you portrayed. That's because Plato doesn't actually forbit poetry 'per se' but only the dramatic poets which are detrimental to properly educating one's soul. Even so, he still allows for poetry which sings for virtue, heroism, and truth, specially for the education of children. Besides that, he still claims that he is willing to hear out good arguments((even if written in prose) in defense for the educational use of poetry, especially of Homer.
I agree that Plato's views are more nuanced than I let on in the lecture. I just wanted to stimulate people to start thinking about the potential role of poetry and other kinds of imaginative literature in ethical cultivation.
@@BryanVanNordenPhilosophy You're right, professor! Lectures have to be simplified, otherwise we get lost on details and never progress. Thank you for posting them and keep em' coming, because they are are great.
I admire this... Thank you Bryan... Subscribed.
Thank you for your kind words!
Weclome Bryan@@BryanVanNordenPhilosophy
@@BryanVanNordenPhilosophy again thank you, and welcome..
TY for posting your lectures, benefiting humanity.🙏
Great lecture. Thanks for sharing!!
Thank you for your kind words!
Great class, great video. Really was needing that. I constantly argued with myself about most of those topics and a few days back I was searching about the philosophy of human being good. And suddenly I realized how not much people in the west agrees and even questions about it. :(
Which led me to the confucionism and Mengzi teachings. Which I myself agree pretty much.
Glad it was helpful!
Well done ❤
Hi, Prof. Norden. I'm studying Mengzi in class, but I'm still confused about 「自賊者也；謂其君不能者，賊其君者也。」What does 賊 mean here in English instead of "steal"? probably "damage"?
I think it almost means "underestimate" or "demean."
T'ien Ming (Decree of Heaven). I consider "T'ien" as a metaphysical allegory for morality in it's purest state present in all of man. That's just my take of that term. In a Confucian sense of course.
It seems @8:30 “two surviving schools” ignores Han Fei’s legalism which was somewhat Dao De Jing linked and criticized the Confucian school. We know it survived, though perhaps quietly, because of the CPC today. Without legalism, ruism is too one-sided to run society. You need both morality and law.
Legalism didnt exist as a school after the fall of Qin dynasty.
japan is the country whose culture best represent the teaching of Confucious, sadly even more so than modern China
I'm a Neo-Confucian and I'm going to say something that can be seen as heresy.
In The Analects, Confucius claimed that righteousness is the most standard rule of the rites. And also how it's almost irrefutable. But he's my argument towards it, what if a malevolent sovereign comes into power and makes his wicked rule law? So if any were to oppose it It would be considered unrighteous ... because it's law. I think one should always pursue what's morally just then of who is in power would consider "right".
还有法家啊，当时秦只用法家，后来儒道法就一直是三个主要流派。
在孟子的时候没有所谓法家。
@@BryanVanNordenPhilosophy 哦？那您与司马谈对先秦学派的划分有不同标准？
司马谈的划分有很多的缺点。@@wondererasl