As a Welshman, I found this eye opening. In Wales we are under the impression that you guys are the richest rugby union in the World, and do we enjoy ripping you up for that. A fantastic interview highly informative and intelligent questions and answers. I have a request, how about doing this sort of format with the other home nations RFU's? We are in the poo in Wales it would be a great chance for the Rugby fans to realise the problems and the intended solutions. Thks again lads, look forward perhaps to an announcement to my request?
This kind of conversation has been long, long overdue in Wales. One of the biggest reasons the game is in such a mess is that media have failed massively to hold the various parties to account over the declining state of the game.
0:00 - 2023 Intro 1:24 - Show starts 5:52 - Simon's role as CEO of Premiership Rugby 10:48 - Bill's role as CEO of the RFU 17:02 - Bill on Eddie Jones sacking 28:37 - Expectations on Steve Borthwick 29:32 - Bill & Simon on DCMS hearing 31:04 - Simon on Worcester/Wasps 43:06 - Premiership financial armageddon 48:23 - Premiership franchises? 53:40 - Rugby's characters 1:03:06 - England players to France 1:05:40 - Where are CVC? What are their plans? 1:12:28 - Streaming giants 1:14:50 - English Championship 1:20:47 - Grassroots rugby 1:29:41 - Red Roses World Cup 1:31:10 - Allianz Prem 15s 1:37:12 - Global Calendar
I would love a global season and the southern winter, is similar tobthe northern summer, so internationally June and July would make the most sense, but there is a lot of tradition and money against that idea. The 6 nations is a very successful tournament. Its a pity because it would be great for international rugby
Wasn't expecting such an open conversation about the state of the game. An incredible episode. I hope that what was said for plans in the game will help the game. Loved it
The last comments from James hit the nail on the head. Yes, stop telling everybody they can achieve what ever they want. What you achieve is in direct proportion to the effort you make. Both physical and mental. Far too many are not capable or willing to push through those “Dark Places” which 😊accompanies greatness.
It’s taken me a while to carve out the 1h46 required to watch this episode, but well worth it! You guys are producing amongst the best rugby journalism around right now… explorative of all the issues and willing to press people without being belligerent, taking into account nuance and balance… long may it continue! Only thing… I get that the concussion issue is a World Rugby issue, and so not in these guys remit… but to not discuss it at all? That seems like a glaring oversight… why are player numbers in the UK down? I know from my club that people are fearful of the consequences of too many concussions, and several players have quit because of this. Thought it should have been referenced at least! Thanks though - overall, great content and it can only do the game benefit to rake through all of these issues. Cheers, John
Great chat lads, next can you get on Amazon prime to stream the 6 nations in the USA like they do in Europe? Tough to watch over here! Cheers from a migrated Englishmen!
Well ….. that was long. But I think we managed to hear every Marketing buzz-word at least once - some (eg ‘re-boot’) many times. So it turns out that EVERYTHING is healthy and positive about English Rugby and Gallagher Premiership - except for a) COVID, and b) Inflation. Miraculously, neither factor affected France, Ireland, NZ, SA, Aus - or even Italy or Argentina. So we’re facing that fall-out absolutely alone. Or could it be the the ENTIRE strategy of Rugby in England is to support the RFU and it’s collection of eye-watering salaries and expense accounts? 🤔. Whereas in other countries the money goes more directly into “the Game”. So not only do we in England pay more for international tickets than any other much smaller countries, not only is the merch colossally more expensive, not only is the cost of viewing ANY live Rugby prohibitively high - but even then, the Blazers contrive to have no money left to help our top clubs, the Championship, or Womens Club Rugby. So we have to ask why ? - which equations are the RFU actually getting right? - Game Accessibility ? No - Finance ? No - International success ? No - Elite Player Retention ? No - Robust Club structure ? No - Swanky HQ offices ? Yes - Generous Expense A/cs? Yes Congratulations to James for asking the hard questions - even if Payno (ever the diplomat) was rather more concerned with not upsetting the ‘chums of the Remove’. I suspect until we find a “professional” administration to run a professional game, nothing much will ever change. We will increasingly get used to watching Ireland and France get their priorities straight and forge ahead - whilst we continue to regard Rugby as a bastion of Social intercourse amongst a “certain quality of enthusiasts” with no clue about how to actually win anything - and no desire to learn. StJohn Smythe can continue to breathe easily.
Unions, Governing bodies, Politics.....If you are not watching every penny the money can just dissappear.... These kind of things attract people who talk a good game but need to be ruthlessly monitored on results....
I've just seen an incredible interview with the Australian Rugby CEO, the chaps name defeats me, after listening to him and watching "No Compete Clause" Sweeney and this other chap who seems to be scared of Sweeneys shadow, it is clear to see the unmitigatable drama show the RFU always has been. The Australian speaks with enthusiasm, vision, articulation of where they are, how they're battling on the NRL/AFL front, it was all very interesting and you can see he is a man of his word with the way he bought EJ in. In contrast, these two gentlemen are sitting here ready to face passionate England rugby fans like me dressed like they're off to a pub quiz and speaking like they're in the house of commons. After some time Eddie resurfacing and explaining his side post WC19 and opening talks with Australia 14 months ago tells me that at the very least, EJ was getting messed about by the RFU for at least 2 years prior to the sacking. The RFU has always been an elite political instrument and nothing shall change. EJ was never and will never be a political guy hence he never stood a chance. And then, to protect his, "I'm the only coach to win the WC for England" chirps Woodward who is a complete politically motivated operater who sadly will never achieve his objective of a key role with the RFU, do not mess with Sir Francis Barron is all there to be said about this. I found this interview thoroughly uninspiring, I feel these people are still stuck in a swamp trying to demonstrate forward thinking but hampered by an inadequate infrastructure that wreaks of cronyism and protectionism and indeed one only needs to listen to the way the questions around Worcester and Wasps were weaved through. Will was spot on many moons ago. Nothing has changed and nothing will. Fasten your seatbelts for an Eddie Jones fired up Australia coming into the world cup in demolition mode, Borth is a nice guy and all but just watch how Galthie et al take him into deep water. Only my 2p's worth as a rugby man.
Absolutely fantastic show! I am a Welshman living in Japan and other than watching the Prem highlights, I have little incentive to accept the growth and advancement of the English game. However, with people like these at the helm, the game generally in England and as a byproduct, the rest of the UK will grow. Great interviewees and great interviewers! Thank you so much for this.
Rugby administration often becomes insular and self centred. The answer to growing the game is to make hero’s. Jonah Lomu grew the world audience overnight. He is still bringing new people into the game. Both players and spectators. The RU fails to see what Football, Tennis and even Golf have known for years. Turn those exceptional players into Super Stars. Make heroes that women swoon over and kids dream of becoming. It can be done. There is always a few, somewhere in the world, that can become that Jonah Hero. Traditional conservatisms is Rugby Unions biggest enemy.
You got the feeling Bill was a little uncomfortable with change, almost expected Hasks to reference Will Carling and his 'old farts' furore...but it's all positive - really think the RFU need to engage more with the rugby public and using the rising force that is the GBR was/is the perfect bridge to reach out to fans - in summary a fascinating episode - probably one of the best yet..
To increase interest and support in rugby union, has there been any thought given to organising out-of-season visits (perhaps even short games) by the big clubs - including some first team players - to clubs in lower leagues. With 10 professional clubs it would be each club making one or two visits out-of-season to community clubs, or indeed to clubs in lower leagues where a match entry fee could be charged to go towards club funds. Perhaps make it a competition by clubs applying to be considered for such a visit. Evidence of effort and development within their relative communities could be what the winners are judged upon to qualify as receiving a winning visit. I'm sure there are other ideas floating about along these lines.
Opposite for me. Summer tournament, not the traditional clubs (promote players not clubs, too many clubs are small provincial towns) but franchises from the big population areas. All the top players (boat the summer internationals for a few years) spread around 6 teams. 2x in London, Midlands team in Birmingham, Northern team in Manchester and West Country team as that is an existing rugby hotbed. Do a round robin tournament in football stadiums/twickers and make some big money in a gap in the calender vs the golaith of football.
Great interview, and covered some good issues well, yes agree a lot to be done especially around ownership and fit and proper. Nice to see positive comments on Woman’s Rugby. I agree that more needs to done to make the game more accessible and interesting comment that Flag or touch NFL has the highest numbers.
Love how you say the women’s game is going from strength to strength when they’ve just kicked sale out of the league for next season, meaning anyone wanting to watch women’s rugby in the north are a bit stuck. Just keeping the game closed off and Southern-centric
Lol, they are doing the exact opposite of that. Under their leadership we have seen nothing but a steep decline. Grassroots rugby is on the rink and this joker signs off on an absolutely ridiculous new tackle rule.
I don't think they were being honest and genuine at all. They gave quite a few political answers and they should've been pushed back on a lot of their BS answers.
There are far to many media outlets that criticise the state of rugby which harms more than helps. GBR have done well to befriend the RFU to give a different picture.
Some great discussion here. There are no simple or uniform solutions, but just listening to this plenty of good ideas. If I had a blank sheet of paper I’d be tempted to reduce team size to give players more space and tackle some of the issues around participation and player costs etc.
First up. Great job by Payne and Haskell. At the 29 minute i'm confused with the expectations on Borthwick, Game by game no kpi's, no pressure, long term view. Does that mean 6nations and WC aren't important ?
Despite paying X million £ to make it happen immediately instead of just waiting a few months then if it's not important... 😅 Full of corporate soundbites and BS and pandering to the old boys club!
A really interesting discussion,more of this, like with SRU/Wales/URC/Brands,also simplified rules and less interpretation between southern and northern hemisphere,and sevens needs more discussion and growth with club sevens tournament.
Hasks point about England players playing abroad was an important one - The national team really needs some southern hemisphere dynamism in it and players playing abroad would help with that. Not good enough to prevent this and protect premiership
Would be interested to get others opinions on this idea. Scrap the Prem cup and create a new cup competition which puts premiership teams and championship teams in groups and then progress through knockouts. Let me explain. 25 clubs (annoyingly not 24). 4 groups of 4 & 3 groups of 3. In the groups of 4 - Prem, Prem, Champ, Champ In the groups of 3 - Prem, Champ, Champ Each team to only play 2 games within their group, prem teams not to play each other. (1 Home & 1 Away) 7 group winners + the best runner up. 8 teams to go through to 1/4 finals. The games can be played when the current prem cup games are played. The premiership teams can still utilize this competition as the do with the Prem cup currently and play players on the edge of the 1st teams and academy prospects. From a commercial point of view, you could have an overall competition sponsor (Amazon, TikTok, even TH-cam). On top of this the TV rights should be split across BBC, ITV & Channel 4 or 5. For this competition you could use up and coming referees, commentators, TV presenters etc the list goes on.
Super Pod ! However the two CEOs are about what we are going to do what we want to do, and reasons why we aren't doing things. etc etc. For example the complications of putting names on players' shirts. Really ??!! How complicated can that be! Action is needed now with some leaders that are brave and standby their convictions.
Have match officials treated the same as players - consequences for poor actions and have it publicized. (Talking only about in the professional game, not school/club level).
Maybe reschedule the domestic league so the international players aren't away so much. They expect people to buy season tickets when a lot of the star players don't feature in a lot of the fixtures. So start the season a bit earlier and finish it a bit later, which means playing more games when the delightful British weather is better and players get a few breaks, players need rest mentally and physically more than ever. What about starting a proper cup competition. Regional rounds then as is progresses add the Championship and then the Prem clubs. Could be great for a lower league side to have a bit of a run especially getting a home tie. All the current competitions are round Robin format apart from the Prem final. One off games can always provide an upset.
This was the most restraint 🤐 I've ever seen Hask.🤣 He must've only dropped one F-Bomb.😂 Not sure 🤔💭 if I should congratulate 👏 Alex 🎙 or the suits 👔 for that monumental accomplishment.😅 Great show, thanks gents.👌
It feels like Argentina have got a bright future ahead in international rugby! I don’t know too many other Argentinian players playing in the Prem but Carreras is fucking brilliant to watch.
The RFU continue to do no favours for the community game. The league season finishes on 11th March and the cup competition is likely to lead to further loss of income through to the end of April. Even with a successful cup run the travel costs involved could cripple clubs with away draws and if that leads to home walkovers the home side loses bar income.. Similarly the burden placed on the volunteers that run community clubs by the RFU bureaucracy where volunteers time is required doing stuff to keep RFU desk jockeys in work. Running a junior section which is the future of the game has been made more burdensome as a consequence of the RFU over the last 20 years and they wonder why the volunteers walk away.
Love this podcast. Haskell has got it right. An IPL for Rugby. How about CVC setting up a league where teams buy a place for £1M and is set around international calendar.
A really open and honest interview with both the gents who have received pretty poor press recently. One comment from me is; Hask, please stop sitting with your foot wagging madly throughout. It is very distracting
I know this is an old one but I would like to know what the thoughts. Where are we now. After the loss of clubs and clubs from lower down not wanting to come up there is a problem ? With the latest lot of players off to France and the next lot,are the RFU looking to stop this ? It would seem that nothing has changed?
The game is hamstrung by the ever changing laws. Just as the players and officials begin to adapt the new laws they are changed again. If you want to kill a game on the field then this is how you do it.
Sorry, I don't like the anonymity. If you're important enough to be involved in the decision you're then important enough to be responsible. That's just cowardly of them.
The misconception here is that the all schools programme had a massive impact - It Didn't!! Yes several thousand schools had kit delivered to them and yes some of those schools had coaches for a while. To ascertain the impact you need to figure out how many of those schools still play the game or now have a team that didn't have previously. Some schools still have that all schools equipment still in their sports cupboards untouched as they couldn't get coaches in the schools. County and clubs need to employ someone to be in schools full time to train teachers on how to coach the game (simplified) especially for Girls as they dont have teams in the schools and they will pay for the coach by increased membership. We started our own Girls Rugby Club to try and help in that area and both the county and the RFU have basically shunned us!!
I priced a ticket for England Scotland game how is Twickenham not loaded I will not be adding to the bucket list I just can't justify spending that sort of money for a couple of Hours
If Steve Borthwick is for the long-term and Eddie Jones is a tournament specialist, why make the change now? Why change the original plan to change head coaches after the tournament? So Bill Sweeney and the mystery committee believe Borthwick will do a better job with the Six Nations and RWC2023 but there’s “no undue pressure” on him to do so? So even if 2023 goes badly, Borthwick is staying at least till RWC2027? I appreciate the willingness to talk publicly but I found this explanation logically inconsistent.
@@thesaxon2266 Sir Clive Woodward has a lot to answer for. It’s like when we reached the final last time round, he thought his legacy as the only coach to win under threat so he went on the attck
Interesting opening gambit but despite Hass best efforts we just get RFU or answers.nothing will change.Topics like player head injuries,too many games,absurb Travel to SA in Champions cup & nonsense salary cap .
Hask asks: "Did you ask the players or talk to them"... Sweeney "Yes, we did, we talked to "some", myself and others"... 1 minute later, "we told them the reason why". So no, you didn't ask the players, you made a decision and then informed "some". Term only used when you've definitely spoken to not many people at all... And it seems Jones sacking was decided by 3 anonymous people and Sweeney? 🤔 If you've got definitive reasons to fire someone, you can also stand up in public and say it. Cloak and dagger politics is pathetic and shouldn't be what rugby is about. Shame on GBR for not immediately calling them out on this. Hask was very good in the interview though. Very valid points, but definitely should have picked up on the above a bit quicker!
Well said - and dead right. Too many comments here saying “really interesting” and “fascinating insight” - when actually it was neither of those things. Nothing in the way of positive initiatives whatsoever, and all the critiques were basically down to COVID and Inflation - which clearly must have impacted England in a rather unique way ! 🤔
Bring in an orange card, means you get sent off but someone different can come on after 10 minutes. Red cards absolutely kill games, also ref on intent not outcome. No player in their right mind is deliberately getting sent off these days!
All good and well having a nice chit chat podcast. Both have good answers and have respect for them however neither strike me as being dynamic or anything special. It’s going to take some dynamic people to get the rugby union product going full steam ahead and growing in terms of numbers, sponsorship etc. They just don’t excite me when they talk.
A lot of talking, but the proof is going to be shown this afternoon. It’s an indictment on the current situation that the critical part of the game will be on penalty count back and yellow and red cards, time spent waiting for scrum resetting. I’ve recently been looking back into some games of the 70’s and I would like to suggest to those in power to look back in awe. Where are we going? I tend to think that the Woke Rugby League ideology will be having us play touch rugby within 3 years if they have their way. Just look at JPR after some of his matches, he survived brilliantly in his very demanding job as a surgeon without mental damage, and he had a very long time in the game.
They made this mistake when sky came out as us lower rugby players said at the time we looked at the grassroots players not the money then changing the law's every year
51% of ticketing and hospitality. This is why playing at Twickenham is now every travelling supporters/teams dream. Unfortunately the England players can't hear the screams of "real" supporters being shouted at TVs across the land! Introduce a Kop end like at Anfield into Twickenham where real supporters can affordably attend where tweed is banned and home jerseys are compulsory.
The ticket prices at the majority of Premiership clubs are too expensive for new fans and many existing fans to attend. The Premiership shouldn't have less than 12 teams and the 12th team should most likely be from Yorkshire. Teams don't need squads of over 40 players. Would even try looking at getting the Welsh & Scottish clubs out of the URC. FA Cup style competition needs to be reintroduced open to the majority of clubs in the RFU pyramid.
Ridiculous bill sweeney saying 99 times out of 100 they'd win the game against Scotland Let's just remember who has won the calcutta cup the most over recent years🏴🏴🏴
I’m seeing neither.. very typical of a senior meeting. Considering and focussed… a few shared smiles when relaying the select committee and frequent nods of agree,ent on a number of topics. Seems good
They do both sound like stereotypical consultants, lots of talk and long term plans to fix all solutions. If rules can be changed in rugby every 6 months, I can't see why the other changes they aspire for can't be made. When this season ends and all prem teams have adjusted for the new salary cap, there could easily be 20 quality English players leaving for overseas, is this still not enough to consider it a problem? Great episodes recently, would have enjoyed Tinds PoV on both the recent episodes!
This is awful. At no point do they really address the quality of the product that we're watching. I've been a die-hard rugby fan for more than half a century, and for quite a while now I've found watching rugby union a dull and frustrating pass time. The laws have become so complicated that the match goes from penalty to penalty to penalty, then a one and a half minute break to line up a shot at goal. It's impossible not to get the sense it's the referee deciding the game according to whom he thinks is applying more pressure. To add to this tedium of penalties is the referees sending players off the field. It completely unbalances the game, I understand the need to protect players, but straight reds should be reserved for malicious play not for accidental contact. Quite often a game is wrecked because of obviously accidental head contact, it's happened so many times. Bill Sweeney comes across as someone who expertly deflects responsibility, talks in cliches and has absolutely no idea how to improve the game. He does not inspire confidence.
Grab your GBR merchandise here: www.goodbadrugby.com
As a Welshman, I found this eye opening. In Wales we are under the impression that you guys are the richest rugby union in the World, and do we enjoy ripping you up for that. A fantastic interview highly informative and intelligent questions and answers. I have a request, how about doing this sort of format with the other home nations RFU's? We are in the poo in Wales it would be a great chance for the Rugby fans to realise the problems and the intended solutions. Thks again lads, look forward perhaps to an announcement to my request?
This kind of conversation has been long, long overdue in Wales. One of the biggest reasons the game is in such a mess is that media have failed massively to hold the various parties to account over the declining state of the game.
Good luck getting the WRU to allow this now after the last few weeks mate 🤣🤣
0:00 - 2023 Intro
1:24 - Show starts
5:52 - Simon's role as CEO of Premiership Rugby
10:48 - Bill's role as CEO of the RFU
17:02 - Bill on Eddie Jones sacking
28:37 - Expectations on Steve Borthwick
29:32 - Bill & Simon on DCMS hearing
31:04 - Simon on Worcester/Wasps
43:06 - Premiership financial armageddon
48:23 - Premiership franchises?
53:40 - Rugby's characters
1:03:06 - England players to France
1:05:40 - Where are CVC? What are their plans?
1:12:28 - Streaming giants
1:14:50 - English Championship
1:20:47 - Grassroots rugby
1:29:41 - Red Roses World Cup
1:31:10 - Allianz Prem 15s
1:37:12 - Global Calendar
I would love a global season and the southern winter, is similar tobthe northern summer, so internationally June and July would make the most sense, but there is a lot of tradition and money against that idea. The 6 nations is a very successful tournament. Its a pity because it would be great for international rugby
I often wonder each week what the show will be about each week. This one was a pleasant surprise! Nice interview.
Wasn't expecting such an open conversation about the state of the game. An incredible episode. I hope that what was said for plans in the game will help the game. Loved it
The last comments from James hit the nail on the head.
Yes, stop telling everybody they can achieve what ever they want. What you achieve is in direct proportion to the effort you make.
Both physical and mental.
Far too many are not capable or willing to push through those “Dark Places” which 😊accompanies greatness.
It’s taken me a while to carve out the 1h46 required to watch this episode, but well worth it!
You guys are producing amongst the best rugby journalism around right now… explorative of all the issues and willing to press people without being belligerent, taking into account nuance and balance… long may it continue!
Only thing… I get that the concussion issue is a World Rugby issue, and so not in these guys remit… but to not discuss it at all? That seems like a glaring oversight… why are player numbers in the UK down? I know from my club that people are fearful of the consequences of too many concussions, and several players have quit because of this. Thought it should have been referenced at least!
Thanks though - overall, great content and it can only do the game benefit to rake through all of these issues.
Cheers, John
Hask going on the rugby pass was golden, two best pods around. Great move by both side 👏 👍
Great chat lads, next can you get on Amazon prime to stream the 6 nations in the USA like they do in Europe? Tough to watch over here! Cheers from a migrated Englishmen!
Well ….. that was long. But I think we managed to hear every Marketing buzz-word at least once - some (eg ‘re-boot’) many times.
So it turns out that EVERYTHING is healthy and positive about English Rugby and Gallagher Premiership - except for a) COVID, and b) Inflation. Miraculously, neither factor affected France, Ireland, NZ, SA, Aus - or even Italy or Argentina. So we’re facing that fall-out absolutely alone.
Or could it be the the ENTIRE strategy of Rugby in England is to support the RFU and it’s collection of eye-watering salaries and expense accounts? 🤔.
Whereas in other countries the money goes more directly into “the Game”.
So not only do we in England pay more for international tickets than any other much smaller countries, not only is the merch colossally more expensive, not only is the cost of viewing ANY live Rugby prohibitively high - but even then, the Blazers contrive to have no money left to help our top clubs, the Championship, or Womens Club Rugby.
So we have to ask why ?
- which equations are the RFU actually getting right?
- Game Accessibility ? No
- Finance ? No
- International success ? No
- Elite Player Retention ? No
- Robust Club structure ? No
- Swanky HQ offices ? Yes
- Generous Expense A/cs? Yes
Congratulations to James for asking the hard questions - even if Payno (ever the diplomat) was rather more concerned with not upsetting the ‘chums of the Remove’.
I suspect until we find a “professional” administration to run a professional game, nothing much will ever change. We will increasingly get used to watching Ireland and France get their priorities straight and forge ahead - whilst we continue to regard Rugby as a bastion of Social intercourse amongst a “certain quality of enthusiasts” with no clue about how to actually win anything - and no desire to learn.
StJohn Smythe can continue to breathe easily.
Unions, Governing bodies, Politics.....If you are not watching every penny the money can just dissappear.... These kind of things attract people who talk a good game but need to be ruthlessly monitored on results....
Fair play. Not watched you lot for months I just thought it was getting a bit boring, but this was really good. Thanks.
I've just seen an incredible interview with the Australian Rugby CEO, the chaps name defeats me, after listening to him and watching "No Compete Clause" Sweeney and this other chap who seems to be scared of Sweeneys shadow, it is clear to see the unmitigatable drama show the RFU always has been.
The Australian speaks with enthusiasm, vision, articulation of where they are, how they're battling on the NRL/AFL front, it was all very interesting and you can see he is a man of his word with the way he bought EJ in.
In contrast, these two gentlemen are sitting here ready to face passionate England rugby fans like me dressed like they're off to a pub quiz and speaking like they're in the house of commons.
After some time Eddie resurfacing and explaining his side post WC19 and opening talks with Australia 14 months ago tells me that at the very least, EJ was getting messed about by the RFU for at least 2 years prior to the sacking.
The RFU has always been an elite political instrument and nothing shall change. EJ was never and will never be a political guy hence he never stood a chance.
And then, to protect his, "I'm the only coach to win the WC for England" chirps Woodward who is a complete politically motivated operater who sadly will never achieve his objective of a key role with the RFU, do not mess with Sir Francis Barron is all there to be said about this.
I found this interview thoroughly uninspiring, I feel these people are still stuck in a swamp trying to demonstrate forward thinking but hampered by an inadequate infrastructure that wreaks of cronyism and protectionism and indeed one only needs to listen to the way the questions around Worcester and Wasps were weaved through.
Will was spot on many moons ago. Nothing has changed and nothing will.
Fasten your seatbelts for an Eddie Jones fired up Australia coming into the world cup in demolition mode, Borth is a nice guy and all but just watch how Galthie et al take him into deep water.
Only my 2p's worth as a rugby man.
Very enlightening! Good to hear the thinking for the way ahead, without Media conjecture!
Absolutely fantastic show! I am a Welshman living in Japan and other than watching the Prem highlights, I have little incentive to accept the growth and advancement of the English game. However, with people like these at the helm, the game generally in England and as a byproduct, the rest of the UK will grow. Great interviewees and great interviewers! Thank you so much for this.
Rugby administration often becomes insular and self centred. The answer to growing the game is to make hero’s.
Jonah Lomu grew the world audience overnight. He is still bringing new people into the game. Both players and spectators.
The RU fails to see what Football, Tennis and even Golf have known for years. Turn those exceptional players into Super Stars.
Make heroes that women swoon over and kids dream of becoming.
It can be done. There is always a few, somewhere in the world, that can become that Jonah Hero.
Traditional conservatisms is Rugby Unions biggest enemy.
Superb podcast very good to see the 2 CEO getting out there and showing there human and being very open ....well done to all
You got the feeling Bill was a little uncomfortable with change, almost expected Hasks to reference Will Carling and his 'old farts' furore...but it's all positive - really think the RFU need to engage more with the rugby public and using the rising force that is the GBR was/is the perfect bridge to reach out to fans - in summary a fascinating episode - probably one of the best yet..
To increase interest and support in rugby union, has there been any thought given to organising out-of-season visits (perhaps even short games) by the big clubs - including some first team players - to clubs in lower leagues. With 10 professional clubs it would be each club making one or two visits out-of-season to community clubs, or indeed to clubs in lower leagues where a match entry fee could be charged to go towards club funds. Perhaps make it a competition by clubs applying to be considered for such a visit. Evidence of effort and development within their relative communities could be what the winners are judged upon to qualify as receiving a winning visit. I'm sure there are other ideas floating about along these lines.
Opposite for me. Summer tournament, not the traditional clubs (promote players not clubs, too many clubs are small provincial towns) but franchises from the big population areas. All the top players (boat the summer internationals for a few years) spread around 6 teams.
2x in London, Midlands team in Birmingham, Northern team in Manchester and West Country team as that is an existing rugby hotbed. Do a round robin tournament in football stadiums/twickers and make some big money in a gap in the calender vs the golaith of football.
The best pod yet. Clarity, honesty and intrigue. More of this please!
Great interview, and covered some good issues well, yes agree a lot to be done especially around ownership and fit and proper. Nice to see positive comments on Woman’s Rugby. I agree that more needs to done to make the game more accessible and interesting comment that Flag or touch NFL has the highest numbers.
Well, that was all a bit grown up! Well done fellas, a decent insight into where the rfu think they are.
Love how you say the women’s game is going from strength to strength when they’ve just kicked sale out of the league for next season, meaning anyone wanting to watch women’s rugby in the north are a bit stuck. Just keeping the game closed off and Southern-centric
brilliant interview. Both came across as genuine, honest and doing their best to make the game a success.
Lol, they are doing the exact opposite of that. Under their leadership we have seen nothing but a steep decline. Grassroots rugby is on the rink and this joker signs off on an absolutely ridiculous new tackle rule.
I don't think they were being honest and genuine at all. They gave quite a few political answers and they should've been pushed back on a lot of their BS answers.
There are far to many media outlets that criticise the state of rugby which harms more than helps. GBR have done well to befriend the RFU to give a different picture.
Some great discussion here. There are no simple or uniform solutions, but just listening to this plenty of good ideas. If I had a blank sheet of paper I’d be tempted to reduce team size to give players more space and tackle some of the issues around participation and player costs etc.
First up. Great job by Payne and Haskell.
At the 29 minute i'm confused with the expectations on Borthwick, Game by game no kpi's, no pressure, long term view. Does that mean 6nations and WC aren't important ?
Despite paying X million £ to make it happen immediately instead of just waiting a few months then if it's not important... 😅 Full of corporate soundbites and BS and pandering to the old boys club!
A really interesting discussion,more of this, like with SRU/Wales/URC/Brands,also simplified rules and less interpretation between southern and northern hemisphere,and sevens needs more discussion and growth with club sevens tournament.
Brilliant show, thanks lads
Hasks point about England players playing abroad was an important one - The national team really needs some southern hemisphere dynamism in it and players playing abroad would help with that. Not good enough to prevent this and protect premiership
Would be interested to get others opinions on this idea.
Scrap the Prem cup and create a new cup competition which puts premiership teams and championship teams in groups and then progress through knockouts. Let me explain.
25 clubs (annoyingly not 24).
4 groups of 4 & 3 groups of 3.
In the groups of 4 - Prem, Prem, Champ, Champ
In the groups of 3 - Prem, Champ, Champ
Each team to only play 2 games within their group, prem teams not to play each other. (1 Home & 1 Away)
7 group winners + the best runner up. 8 teams to go through to 1/4 finals.
The games can be played when the current prem cup games are played.
The premiership teams can still utilize this competition as the do with the Prem cup currently and play players on the edge of the 1st teams and academy prospects.
From a commercial point of view, you could have an overall competition sponsor (Amazon, TikTok, even TH-cam). On top of this the TV rights should be split across BBC, ITV & Channel 4 or 5.
For this competition you could use up and coming referees, commentators, TV presenters etc the list goes on.
Excellent Interview
Super Pod ! However the two CEOs are about what we are going to do what we want to do, and reasons why we aren't doing things. etc etc. For example the complications of putting names on players' shirts. Really ??!! How complicated can that be! Action is needed now with some leaders that are brave and standby their convictions.
Looking forward to this..
Great chat thanks guys.
great show. Really good to hear from Bill and Simon. Clearly both very able and passionate to do what is required for the game. Keep up the good work.
They don't look confident in almost anything they say.
But do they have even ONE tangible initiative ? Nope.
They are both pish. Good old boy charlatans.
🤔What would you change to sort rugby out?
Snobs
Easier viewing worldwide
Have match officials treated the same as players - consequences for poor actions and have it publicized. (Talking only about in the professional game, not school/club level).
Maybe reschedule the domestic league so the international players aren't away so much.
They expect people to buy season tickets when a lot of the star players don't feature in a lot of the fixtures.
So start the season a bit earlier and finish it a bit later, which means playing more games when the delightful British weather is better and players get a few breaks, players need rest mentally and physically more than ever.
What about starting a proper cup competition. Regional rounds then as is progresses add the Championship and then the Prem clubs. Could be great for a lower league side to have a bit of a run especially getting a home tie.
All the current competitions are round Robin format apart from the Prem final. One off games can always provide an upset.
Change the rugby calendar,play through summer,fans would be more inclined to attend stadiums if its not -4.
This was the most restraint 🤐 I've ever seen Hask.🤣 He must've only dropped one F-Bomb.😂 Not sure 🤔💭 if I should congratulate 👏 Alex 🎙 or the suits 👔 for that monumental accomplishment.😅 Great show, thanks gents.👌
Great podcast. 👍
Hi! Cheers from Argentina. Any opinion about the performance of argentinian players that are playing in the Premiership? All the best, mates.
It feels like Argentina have got a bright future ahead in international rugby! I don’t know too many other Argentinian players playing in the Prem but Carreras is fucking brilliant to watch.
The RFU continue to do no favours for the community game. The league season finishes on 11th March and the cup competition is likely to lead to further loss of income through to the end of April. Even with a successful cup run the travel costs involved could cripple clubs with away draws and if that leads to home walkovers the home side loses bar income.. Similarly the burden placed on the volunteers that run community clubs by the RFU bureaucracy where volunteers time is required doing stuff to keep RFU desk jockeys in work. Running a junior section which is the future of the game has been made more burdensome as a consequence of the RFU over the last 20 years and they wonder why the volunteers walk away.
Very well put, I couldn’t agree more
Love this podcast. Haskell has got it right. An IPL for Rugby.
How about CVC setting up a league where teams buy a place for £1M and is set around international calendar.
Thanks for another interesting chat.
on 11secs... hask looks like a grumpy teenager dragged out by his dad!!! haha! great show guys!
A really open and honest interview with both the gents who have received pretty poor press recently. One comment from me is; Hask, please stop sitting with your foot wagging madly throughout. It is very distracting
Didier Deschamps’ English is superb… lol
I know this is an old one but I would like to know what the thoughts. Where are we now. After the loss of clubs and clubs from lower down not wanting to come up there is a problem ?
With the latest lot of players off to France and the next lot,are the RFU looking to stop this ?
It would seem that nothing has changed?
When are they going to move the six nations to the end of the domestic season..
The game is hamstrung by the ever changing laws. Just as the players and officials begin to adapt the new laws they are changed again. If you want to kill a game on the field then this is how you do it.
Sorry, I don't like the anonymity. If you're important enough to be involved in the decision you're then important enough to be responsible. That's just cowardly of them.
Totally agree. The fact that they were given a pass on this by the TGTBTU duo stinks.
I absolutely agree
The fall off in players of club rugby is the elephant in the room, as without them there are no spectators
The misconception here is that the all schools programme had a massive impact - It Didn't!! Yes several thousand schools had kit delivered to them and yes some of those schools had coaches for a while. To ascertain the impact you need to figure out how many of those schools still play the game or now have a team that didn't have previously. Some schools still have that all schools equipment still in their sports cupboards untouched as they couldn't get coaches in the schools. County and clubs need to employ someone to be in schools full time to train teachers on how to coach the game (simplified) especially for Girls as they dont have teams in the schools and they will pay for the coach by increased membership. We started our own Girls Rugby Club to try and help in that area and both the county and the RFU have basically shunned us!!
I priced a ticket for England Scotland game how is Twickenham not loaded I will not be adding to the bucket list I just can't justify spending that sort of money for a couple of Hours
Invest in fantasy rugby for the Premiership! The Rugby Mag was brilliant, but had to fold due to no help from Premiership Rugby.
If Steve Borthwick is for the long-term and Eddie Jones is a tournament specialist, why make the change now? Why change the original plan to change head coaches after the tournament? So Bill Sweeney and the mystery committee believe Borthwick will do a better job with the Six Nations and RWC2023 but there’s “no undue pressure” on him to do so? So even if 2023 goes badly, Borthwick is staying at least till RWC2027? I appreciate the willingness to talk publicly but I found this explanation logically inconsistent.
I completely agree with you, I found that completely odd too. You're the first person I've seen in the comments to pick up on this.
@@thesaxon2266 Sir Clive Woodward has a lot to answer for. It’s like when we reached the final last time round, he thought his legacy as the only coach to win under threat so he went on the attck
I need a bin juice cap!!
Interesting opening gambit but despite Hass best efforts we just get RFU or answers.nothing will change.Topics like player head injuries,too many games,absurb Travel to SA in Champions cup & nonsense salary cap .
Hask asks: "Did you ask the players or talk to them"... Sweeney "Yes, we did, we talked to "some", myself and others"...
1 minute later, "we told them the reason why". So no, you didn't ask the players, you made a decision and then informed "some". Term only used when you've definitely spoken to not many people at all...
And it seems Jones sacking was decided by 3 anonymous people and Sweeney? 🤔
If you've got definitive reasons to fire someone, you can also stand up in public and say it. Cloak and dagger politics is pathetic and shouldn't be what rugby is about.
Shame on GBR for not immediately calling them out on this. Hask was very good in the interview though. Very valid points, but definitely should have picked up on the above a bit quicker!
Well said - and dead right. Too many comments here saying “really interesting” and “fascinating insight” - when actually it was neither of those things.
Nothing in the way of positive initiatives whatsoever, and all the critiques were basically down to COVID and Inflation - which clearly must have impacted England in a rather unique way ! 🤔
Great insightful episode but a 6/7 for the community game from Bill, no way
Bring in an orange card, means you get sent off but someone different can come on after 10 minutes. Red cards absolutely kill games, also ref on intent not outcome. No player in their right mind is deliberately getting sent off these days!
All good and well having a nice chit chat podcast. Both have good answers and have respect for them however neither strike me as being dynamic or anything special. It’s going to take some dynamic people to get the rugby union product going full steam ahead and growing in terms of numbers, sponsorship etc. They just don’t excite me when they talk.
The game is blaming COVID!! The old boys club is strong.
A lot of talking, but the proof is going to be shown this afternoon.
It’s an indictment on the current situation that the critical part of the game will be on penalty count back and yellow and red cards, time spent waiting for scrum resetting.
I’ve recently been looking back into some games of the 70’s and I would like to suggest to those in power to look back in awe. Where are we going? I tend to think that the Woke Rugby League ideology will be having us play touch rugby within 3 years if they have their way.
Just look at JPR after some of his matches, he survived brilliantly in his very demanding job as a surgeon without mental damage, and he had a very long time in the game.
I will say this.... guys, you can only blame covid so much.
They made this mistake when sky came out as us lower rugby players said at the time we looked at the grassroots players not the money then changing the law's every year
try fixing your GMS system so new players can register - horrible user experience
51% of ticketing and hospitality. This is why playing at Twickenham is now every travelling supporters/teams dream.
Unfortunately the England players can't hear the screams of "real" supporters being shouted at TVs across the land!
Introduce a Kop end like at Anfield into Twickenham where real supporters can affordably attend where tweed is banned and home jerseys are compulsory.
Well done Payno. I presume Hask was there for eye candy or incase it got physical
surely now after the governments report the two CEOs have to seriously look at their positions.#noconfidence
They say things come in threes. 1 Jones out borthwick in, 2 waist height tackling... What's no. all pls???
The 'painful' departure of Eddie Jones... come on fellas, WAKE UP! That was a serious bonus, not a painful departure 🤦♂
The ticket prices at the majority of Premiership clubs are too expensive for new fans and many existing fans to attend.
The Premiership shouldn't have less than 12 teams and the 12th team should most likely be from Yorkshire.
Teams don't need squads of over 40 players.
Would even try looking at getting the Welsh & Scottish clubs out of the URC.
FA Cup style competition needs to be reintroduced open to the majority of clubs in the RFU pyramid.
What a great show, I think both CEOs gave bullshit free, good answers as far as they can. Encouraged by their positivity
Ridiculous bill sweeney saying 99 times out of 100 they'd win the game against Scotland
Let's just remember who has won the calcutta cup the most over recent years🏴🏴🏴
Fair comment. We’ll be hoping to turn this around Saturday though.
See if your doing a state of the game, might be an idea to move out with just the RFU perspective.
Wasps financial model was doomed the second they launched a bond issue
Is it me or is Bill Sweeney not comfortable and amiable to Simon? His body language is not good or welcoming.
Facts. It’s making me uncomfortable
Yes, I've just posted a similar view.
He is probably on edge as in many peoples minds he should have resigned. He knows there is not much love for him at the moment
It’s Simon that looks uncomfortable. Bill seems calm and collected.
I’m seeing neither.. very typical of a senior meeting. Considering and focussed… a few shared smiles when relaying the select committee and frequent nods of agree,ent on a number of topics. Seems good
The womens player pathway is broken there isn't a full path from school to the red roses - That needs looking at!!
Where do they stand on the EJ comments on how the game needs to be pushed in all schools not just private and grammar schools
It will never happen. Health & safety would be all over it like a tramp on chips.
Most state schools don't have the facilities, whether a ground to play on, teachers who know what they're doing.....or kids who would be interested.
6/10 for the community game....lol
“Recovering from covid…very difficult period”, clearly buzz phrases of the RFU.
Pretty much scored himself a 10 when asked how he’d score the premiership 😂 How where there’s empty seats around the grounds week to week
Obviously this guys head must roll if England fails in 2023 World Cup. Big decision … question is, was it the right one! 🤔
So simplify the game - how about league 😃
They do both sound like stereotypical consultants, lots of talk and long term plans to fix all solutions. If rules can be changed in rugby every 6 months, I can't see why the other changes they aspire for can't be made. When this season ends and all prem teams have adjusted for the new salary cap, there could easily be 20 quality English players leaving for overseas, is this still not enough to consider it a problem? Great episodes recently, would have enjoyed Tinds PoV on both the recent episodes!
This is awful. At no point do they really address the quality of the product that we're watching. I've been a die-hard rugby fan for more than half a century, and for quite a while now I've found watching rugby union a dull and frustrating pass time. The laws have become so complicated that the match goes from penalty to penalty to penalty, then a one and a half minute break to line up a shot at goal. It's impossible not to get the sense it's the referee deciding the game according to whom he thinks is applying more pressure.
To add to this tedium of penalties is the referees sending players off the field. It completely unbalances the game, I understand the need to protect players, but straight reds should be reserved for malicious play not for accidental contact. Quite often a game is wrecked because of obviously accidental head contact, it's happened so many times.
Bill Sweeney comes across as someone who expertly deflects responsibility, talks in cliches and has absolutely no idea how to improve the game. He does not inspire confidence.
All corporate, growing the game? At community level?
Best thing ever to get rid of that charlatan EJ!! Us English fans are back on board with optimism!
I'm no body language expert, but these two look a little frosty to one another.
Great job guys. Two very dislikeable characters.
How much money is being squandered on woman's rugby?