Does the BIBLE Say God Can Deceive?
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Hypocrisy is rooted deep in his heart but well done brother Imran
He seems to have hatred in his heart or perhaps he wants to hold on to his falsehood so badly. He knows Islam is the truth but refuses to let go. He is old and could die at any time. May Allah guide him.
@@kinetic3971 Islam is no more or less true than Christianity.
Thank you EFDawah. Having people like you is a blessing. Exposing lies. Frank is cornered and has no way to go!
No nonsense Imran is intellectually deadly, May Allah increase him in beneficial knowledge and preserve assets such as him for the benefit of Islam. Ameen
Aamiinn 🤲
It's very difficult to find a sincere Christian, they always avoid to answer straight questions.the truth doesn't need justification,only lies need it
I'm sorry but I couldn't disagree more with your comment, here's why:
Here is the conversation following Frank's excellent question:-
Frank: "Were the disciples, 'Muslims'?"
Muslim: 'Yes'
Frank: "Did God deceive them?"
Muslim: 'No'
Frank: "but they believed that Jesus was crucified and raised from the dead!"
Muslim: 'Says who?"
Frank: "It's the Bible!"
Muslim: 'Why do you believe what the Bible says?'
........ *AND ITS AT THIS LAST RESPONSE WHERE THE MUSLIM'S ARGUMENT UTTERLY FAILS!!*
Sensing that his logic has failed to support his claim, the Muslim, instead of being honest and addressing this issue, tries this Diversion, instead of answering the question, by retorting: "Why do you believe what the Bible says?"
What we can observe here is that Muslim apologists, twist and turn, like snakes as they misinterpret scripture, make false claims and avoid answering difficult questions that expose the inconsistencies of their arguments, by making diversions to other questions!!
....while this may "look clever" to the uncritical observer, what this practice actually demonstrates is that instead of Islam being an honest and genuine doctrine, it is constructed even in the Quran with false premises, for which Muslim apologists like the one in the video have to find ever more surreptitious and intriguing fabrications, misinterpretations, diversions and excuses!!
Anyone knowledgeable will have spotted the failure of the Muslims's argument, above and his obvious diversionary technique to avoid addressing the issue Frank exposed, that since Muslims believe the disciples were 'Muslims', and since the disciples all knew that Jesus was crucified - that following Surah 4:157 indicates thaat Allah deceived 'Muslim Disciples' of Jesus.
Now, no doubt as a professed Muslim, you will deny what I have said above ........but if you are honest and honestly consider the conversation above, you will know that Imran was avoiding the question asked, because he realised that his argument had resulted in his claim that Allah doesn't deceive Muslims, must be ILLOGICAL, by his own standard! God knows who is telling the truth here and who is trying avoid it!....and so do you!
@@ChangingTimes-vd2mx _AND ITS AT THIS LAST RESPONSE WHERE THE MUSLIM'S ARGUMENT UTTERLY FAILS_
Instead of twisting and turning your answer, why don't *YOU* answer the question - Why do you believe what the Bible says?
@@myuzairy7324 I note your attempt at the typical *'Muslim Diversion technique'* which only exacerbates the problem I have highlighted! Because you AGAIN are attempting to Divert from the problem that Imran faced from Frank's very valid point! .....I can't say I'm surprised, because if you think about it, Imran's 'logic' actually contradicts his own statements that:
a) The Disciples were 'muslims'
b) Allah doesn't deceive his followers
yet everything in history points to the fact that Jesus's disciples all knew that Jesus had been crucified....so if it was 'only appearing to them' (ie an illusion), then this inescapably means that Allah deceived his own believers (Jesus's disciples who were according to Imran, 'Muslims' )
Now regarding the *Diversion Question* about 'why believe the Bible', which you are repeating from Imran: This is an unrelated subject and irrelevant to the discussion between Frank and Imran, (Imran only used this to divert from admitting that Allah deceived the disciples) but if you want, we can discuss this AFTER you have acknowledged the illogical failure of Imran's statement, since the discussion logically concludes that Allah deceived his own followers, who Imran claimed were Jesus's disciples.
Are you able to get Imran out of the difficult dilemma he found himself in, and tried to escape from, WITHOUT using Imran's Diversion Question? (Imran couldn't and that's why he tried to divert away from the mess he found himself in!!)
.....Can you help him answer his dilemma?
Frank doesnt want to be frank wen his hypocrisy is exposed
@shus5787 Frank is Allergic to the untainted TRUTH.
Being Honest, sincere and having the Courage to Speak The TRUTH is NOT in the DNA of any Christian.
All those Honest Christians with such attributes, no longer believe in any bible or go to any church.
Most of them find answers and solace in the Masjids.
💀
😂😂😂
He's frankly lying to himself to be frank.
Alhamdulillah for Islam ☝🏻
As salam alaikum and Alhamdulilaah
Frank don't give up!!! Play stupid , deflect, be disengenious. Do everything Bruh. Don't loose😂
🤣
Frank didn't see this coming 😂 nice kick 👏
Thank you, Brother Imran, for your efforts to guide Frank. Unfortunately, he refused, just as his ancestor as mentioned in this verse - “ Or do you think that most of them hear or reason? They are not except like livestock. Rather, they are [even] more astray in [their] way. “ Quran 25 : 44
Frank is literally deceiving himself now.
Lmao he's how attacking himself. Christians always do that especially with the trinity it causes self confusion and mental headache.💀
Hhhhe
Frank finds it difficult to be frank! 😂
At this moment I am sick of seeing Frank on these forums.
Me too!! 😏 always with the same stupid arguments.
I'm not surprised to hear you say this because Imran failed to answer the question that Frank asked and instead made a diversion: "Why do you believe what the bible says?"......yet someone like Imran is quite happy to borrow some things that the atheist Bart Ehrman says for Imran's own agenda,.....but will avoid Bart Ehrman's statements that the Crucifixion of Jesus is one of the most certain things in ancient history!
@ That’s the difference between you and Imran. You expect Imran to take what Bert says on whole , uncritically? Whether you like Erman or not he is an authority on the Bible, so there is nothing wrong in quoting from him. But a learned person doesn’t have to agree with everything an authority on a subject says.
@@danalmariti509 Well the truly interesting thing about that is that Ehrman will state that if he knows anything FOR CERTAIN as a Historian, it is that Jesus was most definitely Crucified.....and for an atheist historian to confirm this, you would be simply religiously biased to think otherwise (for the sake of trying to defend Surah 4:157 !)
@@danalmariti509 Actually if you honestly examine Surah 4:157-158, critically (as you should), you will realise that it consists of a man's false statement from start to finish! It contains NO details about what happened at the Crucifixion event, to who, when, why, who was there or any explanation as to why Allah's plan through Isa, failed to this point where he was 'nearly crucified'!
It also makes the false claim that Jews 'boasted' of killing the Messiah Jesus.....which no Jew would ever claim, either today or 2000 years ago, for the simple reason that they didn't kill Jesus - the Romans did!
There are 2 problems with this... First he tries to make Islam wrong and second he wants to fix his bible... The audacity to come with a corruption and then try to prove someone else to be wrong not even standing on a his own foot.
Surah 4:157 is a fabricated verse, by any standards. It is an utterly false statement, written by a man with an agenda against Christians. The verse has absolutely nothing to do with God and God did not write it.
If I were to look at the Quran as a source of faith in God, Surah 4:157 would IMMEDIATELY tell me that the Quran is false.
So the 'corruption' is in the Quran far more than anything found in the Bible!
Those who worship their own desire will never reach the truth. The bias is obvious.
I agree with your statement as applicable to Muslims: _"Those who worship their own desire will never reach the truth. The bias is obvious."_
*Either believe* in All of it, *All Together*
*Or disbelieve* in All of it, *All Together*
and you will now all start to apply that rule to the Hadiths, yes?
@Shamarim except hadiths have to be analysed for chain of narration for its validity
@@CheeseCheese-ip5crand how do you think a Bible (bibliography) works when it comes to what is canon and what isn't?
@Shamarim
Now you know that the Bible doesn't work that way. There is no Chain of narration for the Bible. No one knows who wrote the Bible. And even the Bible itself proves itself False.
@@Toronado2 Surah Al-Ma’idah (5:43-48): The Torah and Gospel are called sources of guidance and light.
Surah Yunus (10:94): Muhammad is told to ask the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) if he has doubts.
Surah Al-Baqarah (2:136): Muslims are told to believe in what was revealed to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets without making distinctions.
If the Bible really had a questionable "chain of narration," why would Allah tell people to rely on those scriptures? And if they were corrupted, when exactly did that happen? By the 7th century, the Torah and Gospel were already widely spread and preserved by Jewish and Christian scribes. If they were changed, where’s the proof? Where are the “uncorrupted originals” from that time?
Plus, if Muslims could preserve the Qur’an and Hadiths, why wouldn’t Allah preserve the Torah and Gospel too, especially since He directed people to use them? Saying they were corrupted before the Qur’an doesn’t make sense either, because the Qur’an itself says they were valid.
So, the argument about the Bible having no "chain of narration" doesn’t really hold up, especially when your own Qur’an supports its legitimacy.
Frank can never wrap his head around the fact that a principle needs to be established first as the standard of measurement for both the Quran and the Bible, THEN both needs to be measured against that principle.
Frank prefers to measure the Quran with some vague standard he made up, and prefers to assert that the Bible meets whatever standard he has.
Frank thinks that gives weight to his argument against the Quran when it shows how unfair and unethical he is with his claims.
Alhamdulillah for Islam
Some people will be stubborn till they end up in Hell. Sad.
🇵🇸🤲☝️
May Allah SWT reward you for your work of education and information brothers.
" It's not the eyes that are blind but it's the heart "
Frank is frankly a deceiver.
Smashed it bros. Well done. Pray all the sincere xtians see the problems here and come closer to the truth of Islaam
Masha Allah ❤
Insincerity will not lead anyone to Paradise. Allah Loves sincerity.
*Then I said, “Alas, Sovereign LORD! How completely you have deceived this people and Jerusalem by saying, ‘You will have peace,’ when the sword is at our throats!” [Jeremiah 4:10]*
*You deceived me, LORD, and I was deceived; you overpowered me and prevailed. I am ridiculed all day long; everyone mocks me. [Jeremiah 20:7]*
1 Kings 22:22-23
And he replied, ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets.’ ‘You will surely entice him and prevail,’ said the LORD. ‘Go and do it.’ / So you see, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours, and the LORD has pronounced disaster against you.”
New Living Translation
“‘And if a prophet is deceived into giving a message, it is because I, the LORD, have deceived that prophet. (Ezekiel 14:9)
New International Version
For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12)
الحمدلله على نعمة الإسلام وكفى بها نعمة
جزاكم الله خير الجزاء
I really enjoy br imrans method of debate. Always keeps to the point, keeps you engaged, incontrol and intellectually sound and knowledgeable. The full package for a fruitful debate.
Frank is, frankly speaking, totally DEBUNKED AND EMBARRASSED by Dr. Imran by showing Frank's gross ignorance of his own bible. May Allah preserve Dr. Imran and Bro Abbas, ameen!
Gansta Imran was not something I thought I needed to hear, but now I need more of this haha.
Frank has shown his double standard several times,,he is nothing just hypocrite as highest level
You mean all the times
I love the no nonsense Imran he is amazing mashallah May Allah SWT reward you all for your works and time you spend in the way of Allah SWT as we only do it for the sake of Allah SWT
5 minutes in, and I lost interest in hearing anything from Frank, he is dishones and hypocrite.
and thats like 10th time he is on dawah channels i watch? plus 2x or smth in speakers corner? after first time i realized frank is just waste of time.
😂
he attacks dawah booths in Sydney.
0ooi90pii99io9oppio9iopoa@@estonian44
😊
Baraka ALLAHU fikum
When the going gets tough,the tough goes running,
❤❤❤
(Psalm 18;26) with the pure You prove Yourself pure, but with the crooked You prove Yourself shrewd. To those who are pure you show that you are pure. But to those whose paths are crooked you show that you are clever.
so its telling u to treat people differently? What you quoted literally telling you to be a two faced person? got it.
❤
You lot have been entertaining Frank's waffles since COVID Lockdowns. I really don't see any point!
You did well, brothers. This is an old Christian trope. More evidence:
1 Corinthians 3:19, NLT: "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God. As the Scriptures say, 'He traps the wise in the snare of their own cleverness.'"
Matthew 10:16, “Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves. Be ye therefore wise as serpents and harmless as doves.
Ezekiel 14:9 KJV, ““And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.”
The Biblical God As a Deceiver
By Bassam Zawadi
You won't hear enough of Christian missionaries arguing that the Qur'an describes Allah as plotting and deceiving.
So I think it is only fair if we return them the favor and show how the God of the Bible is a deceiver, thus by the Christian missionary criteria the Biblical God is an immoral God and should not be worshipped.
We read in...
Jeremiah 4:10
Then I said, "Ah, Sovereign LORD, how completely you have deceived (nasha) this people and Jerusalem by saying, 'You will have peace,' when the sword is at our throats."
The word for deceived here is nasha, which means...
1) to beguile, deceive
a) (Niphal) to be beguiled
b) (Hiphil) to beguile, deceive
c) (Qal) utterly (infinitive)
Source: www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/5/1144094423-2544.html
John Gill states in his commentary...
surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem:
what the false prophets did, that God is said to do, because he suffered them to deceive the people; (John Gill, The New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible, Commentary on Jeremiah 4:10, Source)
The New Bible commentary states...
Jeremiah is not indifferent to the message, which he is called to preach. In v 10 a note is struck to which he will return in relation to himself (15:18). In his distress he accuses the Lord of having deceived the people, presumably by having allowed false prophets to convince them with a message of peace (cf. 6:13-14). The only reply is the Lord's own confirmation that judgment is sure. (New Bible Commentary)
Even though it was really the false prophets who did the act of deception, the Bible is actually shifting the blame to God for actually allowing the false prophets to do the deception. This is what the "inspired" author Jeremiah said and this is what we got to accept. God deceived innocent people.
It seemed that people were so bothered with Jeremiah's ascription of deception to God that they had to reword the sentence so that deception is ascribed to the false prophets instead.
Ah, Lord God! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people
The Targum paraphrases this verse thus: "And I said, Receive my supplication, O Lord God; for, behold, the false prophets deceive this people and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace." The prophet could not reconcile this devastation of the country with the promises already made; and he appears to ask the question, Hast thou not then deceived this people in saying there shall be peace, i.e., prosperity? (Adam Clarke, The Adam Clarke Commentary, Commentary on Jeremiah 4:10, Source)
We have it in...
1 Kings 22:20-22
20 And the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?'
"One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.'
22 " 'By what means?' the LORD asked.
" 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said.
" 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.'
Here we see that the man said that he would resort to lying in order to entice Ahab and God supported the idea and told him to go ahead and do it!
I personally have no moral objections to this since I believe God could at times use means of deception in order to ensure the greater good and to use deception against evil. However, Christians don't allow this when we talk about Allah deceiving evildoers in the Qur'an. These are double standards.
We even have it in...
Ezekiel 14:9-11
9 " 'And if the prophet is enticed to utter a prophecy, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him and destroy him from among my people Israel. They will bear their guilt-the prophet will be as guilty as the one who consults him. 11 Then the people of Israel will no longer stray from me, nor will they defile themselves anymore with all their sins. They will be my people, and I will be their God, declares the Sovereign LORD.' "
God is punishing him for a crime that He enticed him to do in the first place? Isn't that entrapment?
Another passage...
Isaiah 37:6-7
Isaiah said to them, "Tell your master, 'This is what the LORD says: Do not be afraid of what you have heard-those words with which the underlings of the king of Assyria have blasphemed me. Listen! I am going to put a spirit in him so that when he hears a certain report, he will return to his own country, and there I will have him cut down with the sword.'
God had that spirit spread a rumor so that the King of Assyria can to return to his homeland. In short, that spirit's purpose was for deception.
Another example from the Bible...
Isaiah 19:14
The LORD has poured into them a spirit of dizziness; they make Egypt stagger in all that she does, as a drunkard staggers around in his vomit.
Here we see God deceiving people to the extent that they become absolutely foolish.
Even though I don't believe the Gospels teach that Jesus taught he was God, however this example is for those who believe that Jesus is God. Jesus admits that he was speaking figuratively all this time...
John 16:25
25"Though I have been speaking figuratively (paroimia), a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father.
The word paroimia could mean...
1) a saying out of the usual course or deviating from the usual manner of speaking
a) a current or trite saying, a proverb
2) any dark saying which shadows forth some didactic truth
a) esp. a symbolic or figurative saying
b) speech or discourse in which a thing is illustrated by the use of similes and comparisons
c) an allegory
1) extended and elaborate metaphor
Source: www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/3/1146511128-5176.html
Why wasn't Jesus speaking in a normal and clear way all the time? Why did Jesus then go and say that he won't 'use this kind of language'?
Well, here we find out why...
Mark 4:10-12
10When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12so that," 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'
So here we see that Jesus was deceiving certain people by speaking in parables so that they won't (and God forbid!) REPENT AND BE FORGIVEN!
Also in...
2 Thessalonians 2:11
11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
So God will delude people so that they can believe lies?
Now Christians would argue back and ask us Muslims to understand the context and reasons why God did such a thing. However, when we tell Christians to do the same thing when it comes to analyzing certain Qur'anic verses they don't want to do it. So why should we Muslims?
And FYI, this is an oft-repeated trope and it gets old when Christians excitedly repeat it. Please understand that in the Qur’an Satan is indeed the greatest Deceiver:
“O men! surely the promise of Allah is true, therefore let not the life of this world deceive you, and let not the Arch-deceiver (Satan) deceive you respecting Allah.”
Al-Fatir, v5
In the verse they often refer to (but probably never actually study the Qur’an itself, certainly not from a linguistic perspective, they will see that in Al-Anfal, v30, God explicitly uses the verb مكر “makara” in reference to the machinations of the Disbelievers, saying that He, all praise to Him, is indeed ahead of them, more aware and more cunning than them. This is indeed the same intent in Jeremiah, 4:10.
what a cluster of convoluted word salad mess, stop using a complete AI chat reel out like that, break things down into digestible paragraphs so that each part can be addressed.
@ it’s perfectly “digestible” and laid out. Why don’t you breath, gather yourself, take a moment, and work out your syntax and punctuation before you get so triggered and just spit nonsense.
@@AereForst ad hominem, the refuge of someone grasping at straws.
@@ScriptureRooted I just gave you a taste of your own medicine, my friend. You attacked what I wrote and described it in unflattering terms, and I repaid the gesture regarding your syntax and punctuation, as your richly deserved fruit. If you can’t take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Bye now.
@@AereForst fine lets play by your standards.
To address the claim that the Bible describes God as a deceiver and respond to the notion that there’s no chain of narration in the Bible, let's start with the main accusation: that God Himself is depicted as a deceiver in various biblical passages. The examples provided-Jeremiah 4:10, 1 Kings 22:20-22, Ezekiel 14:9, Isaiah 37:6-7, and others-suggest that God is either directly involved in deception or allows it to happen for a specific purpose.
Here’s a detailed Christian response:
1. The Wisdom of God and the Foolishness of the World
First, we have to acknowledge that the Bible often portrays God's ways as far beyond human comprehension. In 1 Corinthians 3:19 (NLT), it states, "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God. As the Scriptures say, 'He traps the wise in the snare of their own cleverness.'" This highlights a fundamental truth in Scripture: what may appear as "deception" or "trickery" to us may actually be part of a larger, divine plan, and God’s wisdom, in contrast to human wisdom, can sometimes appear paradoxical. The "trapping" of the wise is not an act of malicious deceit, but rather a way to humble human pride.
2. The Complexity of God's Actions
Now, let's address some of the key passages that seem to suggest that God is involved in deception.
Jeremiah 4:10
In this passage, the prophet Jeremiah expresses distress, saying, “Ah, Sovereign LORD, how completely you have deceived this people and Jerusalem by saying, 'You will have peace,' when the sword is at our throats." It's important to recognize that the term "deceived" here reflects the prophet's emotional response to a situation where false prophets assured the people of peace, even though judgment was coming. Jeremiah accuses God of deceiving them, but this is an expression of his distress and frustration with the people’s rejection of the true message. God permitted the false prophets to deceive them because the people had already chosen to ignore His warnings.
John Gill in his commentary points out that what God is doing here is allowing the false prophets to operate, but it's not God actively deceiving; it's God letting the people go the way they chose to go, in order to face the consequences. So, the deception here is not a contradiction of God’s nature but rather a consequence of human choices.
1 Kings 22:20-22
This is another passage often cited to argue that God is a deceiver. In 1 Kings 22, God allows a lying spirit to deceive King Ahab’s prophets, leading him to his destruction. It might sound like God is actively deceiving Ahab, but the context here is crucial. God is allowing a spirit to go and deceive the prophets because Ahab had already hardened his heart and was unwilling to listen to the true prophet (Micaiah). In a sense, God is giving Ahab over to his own desires, which results in his destruction. This is not God arbitrarily deceiving, but rather an act of judgment on a king who repeatedly rejected the truth.
Ezekiel 14:9-11
This passage says, “If a prophet is deceived when he speaks a prophecy, I the LORD have deceived that prophet." Again, this is God allowing the prophet to be deceived as part of the judgment on Israel for their ongoing sin. The deception here is not presented as an evil act on God's part, but rather as a just consequence for people who have continually turned away from the truth. God allows the false prophets to deceive those who refuse to hear the truth. It’s about divine judgment-God using even the deception of false prophets to purify the people.
Isaiah 37:6-7
Here, God sends a spirit to spread a rumor that causes the Assyrian king to return to his land. This is an example of God using an indirect means of influencing human action. Again, God isn’t lying or deceiving in the traditional sense, but He is orchestrating events so that His sovereign will is carried out, even using means that appear deceptive to us.
3. Parables and Deception in the Gospels
Another point that’s often misunderstood is the use of parables by Jesus. Mark 4:10-12 reveals that Jesus spoke in parables to hide the truth from those who were not open to it. “So that, ‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’” Jesus didn’t speak in parables to confuse or deceive people for malicious reasons but to reveal truth in a way that would only be understood by those whose hearts were open to Him. The idea here isn’t that Jesus was trying to trick people but that He was revealing truth in a manner that required faith and a willingness to seek understanding.
4. The Greater Purpose: God’s Sovereignty and Justice
Now, to the bigger picture: why does God allow or use deception at times? It's not about God being a "deceiver" in the sense that humans lie or cheat. Rather, it's about God's sovereignty and justice. In 2 Thessalonians 2:11, we read, "For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie." This is a judgment on those who reject the truth. When people persist in rejecting God’s truth, He may allow them to believe lies as a form of judgment. Again, this isn’t God being immoral but fulfilling His justice.
5. The Double Standard Argument
Finally, when comparing these actions with the concept of Allah’s "deception" in the Qur'an, it’s important to note that both faiths describe God using means of judgment and justice that may seem harsh from a human perspective but are ultimately part of a larger divine plan. In Islam, Satan is described as the "great deceiver" in Al-Fatir 35:5, and while God is described as being "cunning" in Al-Anfal 8:30, it’s about His supreme knowledge and ability to outwit those who oppose His will.
Conclusion: Understanding Divine Deception
In summary, the "deception" in these passages is not about God acting immorally or in a deceitful way like humans might, but rather about God using judgment and allowing individuals to experience the consequences of their choices. God is sovereign, and His actions in these instances are part of His divine will to bring about justice and fulfill His plan. The passages you cited don’t paint God as a deceiver in the way it’s often implied, but rather show how God can use seemingly deceptive means to execute judgment or fulfill His purposes, ultimately bringing good out of what may initially seem like evil.
When it comes to the Bible’s chain of narration, while it’s true that the Bible doesn’t have a "chain of narration" in the same sense as the Hadith in Islam, it still contains a rich history of preserved texts through various manuscripts, translations, and testimonies. These texts were passed down and carefully preserved over millennia, much like the Qur'an, with historical context, authenticity, and preservation being key themes in Christian scholarship.
This response tackles the argument thoroughly, giving insight into how these passages are understood in Christian theology, and addressing the underlying claims about the morality of God in a clear and thoughtful manner.
Imrans a legend, Frank is a liar he knows the truth but hiding it
With him is a lost cause but may Allah SWT guides all the sinceres out there who are seeking for the truth
salaam in this life you’re either intelligent or christian may allah facilitate the understanding
👍🏽
Seriously Frank...First you say that God does not decieve...and now you want to read the passage to justify it ???
You either against God being deceitful or you will justify when he can !! Come on mate...you're either insincere or dumb as a box full of rocks !! You must be from Melbourne cause I've met Melbournians like yourself !!
What is wrong with deceiving a deceiver?
if you put your principal that God CANNOT deceiving people..therefore God CANNOT deceiving a deceiver.. simple as that..
King doctor ❤
YaAllah Frank still going? Lol he is the classic example of the seals on their hearts eyes and Allah guiding who he wills
Frank is one of the most devious Christian that I have ever encountered, I have been watching this guy for a very long time and not once this guy will talk straight.
Dr Imran Salam Brother some of these Yujuj and Majuj do not Understand Islam .
Frank is following his gods commands and try to deceive us 😅
Frank is so un-Frank that, frankly, it's unfortunate how insincerely frank he is. In fact, Frank's so-called frankness falters further when Frank resorts to mental gymnastics to defend his Bible-twisting and turning to justify its nuances-yet Frank refuses to extend the same intellectual flexibility when challenging the Qur'aan. It's as though Frank has constructed a fortress of double standards and ironically named it "Frankness."
The End.
Check mate
He shredded him to pieces.... They twist and turn, they corrupt their scriptures in public.. just imagine the people who wrote these scriptures in the dungeons centuries ago .... so corrupt
Ezekiel 14.9 "And if the prophet is DECEIVED and speaks a word, I am the Lord, I have DECEIVED that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him and destroy him from the midst of my people Israel."
*To all haters if Islam, whoever has a glass house, do not throw stones at people!!
*Christianity is weaker than the spider's web!!
Ezekiel 14:9 describes God allowing a false prophet to be deceived as part of His judgment against both the prophet and those who seek false guidance. Similar to 1 Kings 22, where God permits a lying spirit to influence Ahab’s prophets, this reflects God's sovereignty and justice in dealing with rebellion.
In the New Testament, however, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are consistently presented as truthful, with no indication of them deceiving. Passages like Titus 1:2 and John 14:6 affirm God’s nature as completely aligned with truth, contrasting with these Old Testament examples of judgment through permitted deception.
@Shamarim Then why does Jesus keep lying in the New Testament?
@@Toronado2 a bold claim, present one verse where Jesus lies in the New Testament.
@@ScriptureRooted
For example, Luke 21.5.. forward, that generation and many generations died after him, 2000 years later, Jesus did not return, that false prophecy was not fulfilled!!
@Shamarim
Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, TODAY shalt thou be with me in paradise.
We both know that Jesus and the thief next to him went straight to Hades. Do you want others? Or is ONE sufficient?
(Matthew 4:1) Jesus was tempted
(James 1:13) God cannot be tempted
(John 1:29) Jesus was seen
(1 John 4:12) No man has ever seen God
(Acts 2:22) Jesus was and is a man, sent by God
(Numbers 23:19, Hosea 11:9) God is not a man
(Hebrews 5:8-9) Jesus had to grow and learn (Isaiah 40:28) God doesn't ever need to learn
(1 Corinthians 15: 3-4) Jesus Died
(1 Timothy 1:17) God cannot die
(Hebrews 5:7) Jesus needed salvation
(Luke 1:37) God doesn't need salvation
(John 4:6) Jesus grew weary
(Isaiah 40:28) God cannot grow weary
(Mark 4:38) Jesus slept
(Psalm 121: 2-4) God doesn't sleep
(John 5:19) Jesus wasn't all powerful
(Isaiah 45: 5-7) God is all powerful
(Mark 13:32) Jesus wasn't all knowing
(Isaiah 46:9) God is all knowing Please re-read your scriptures properly Christians. And analyse the contradictions within. Jesus (peace and blessings be upon him) was a mighty messenger sent by God. The Messiah. Not God incarnate.
BIBLE IS NOT FROM GOD
The Bible was written hundred of years after Jesus by people who never met him of about more than 40 authors in different continents which we don't know their true biographies and we can't ascertain for sure if they were actually inspired by God. The Bible contains more of history than the word of God. The authenticity of the Bible as a word of God is fully doubted just like the actual authors are not well traced and bible keeps evolving!
The word bible is not from God and Jesus didn't know any like bible. Christianity is a man-made religion & The origin of the word is not from God and God never ordained it. None of the Bible prophets was a Christian Not Even Jesus. The word CHRISTIAN was first uttered by pagans as a way of insult to the disciples of Jesus Christ (Acts 11:26). Christianity is based on worshipping Jesus Christ and Jesus never practised Christianity by worshipping himself. All biblical prophets were monotheist submitters of their wills to the Wills of God known in Arabic language as MUSLIM as Jesus also did in John 5:30
The Bible is not from God. It was written hundred of years after Jesus by people who never met him attributing it to him. Jesus Christ didn't know anything like the Bible in his entire life. The bible cannot guarantee you true salvation. True salvation is found only in Islam, the only true religion of God which Jesus practised!
If you are to ask me, "do you believe in the Bible?" My reply will be "which bible"?
👉 The Syrian version of 61 books or
👉 The protestant version of 66 books or
👉 The Coptic version of 75 books or
👉 The Roman catholic version of 73 books or
👉 The Charismatic version of 76 books or
👉 The Ethiopic version of 81 books or
👉 The Orthodox Version of 86 books or
👉 The Greek orthodox of 78 books?
You See clearly there's confusion and different Bible maybe revealed to different Jesus in different places for different groups of people. So which one is from God? There's completely addition and subtraction in the Bible. Even among christians, they differ in books and of course everything.
I will not talk of KJV, RSV, NIV, Good News Bible, etc because these are a matter of CHOICES OF WORDS though still different in many verses as regards the evidence of Jeremiah 8:8 in a nutshell confirmed in the RSV by christian scholars affirming the Bible has many defects and mistakes, backed by Jehovah Witness in their awake magazine dated 8th September 1957 that there are more than 50,000 errors in the Bible. So the God of the Bible is an ignorant "God"!
Many non-Muslims think that if the Qur'an is burnt, it will be lost. This is because none of the Christians in the history of Christianity has ever memorised the complete Bible and no Christian can even boast of memorising just the old testament or just the new testament completely, there's none; Infact, Muslims have even memorised the Bible more than the Christians themselves. If you burn the entire Qur'an in the world today, little children of 7 years will reproduce the exact Qur'an without adding a dot or reducing it because they have all memorised everything off hand; you may also wonder this because you do not even know the Arabic alphabet! The Qur'an is well preserved and it's a miracle of miracles!
The Qur'an contains 114chapters and if you claim by lying that the Qur'an has different versions, then we challenge you in your entire life to show us two complete different Qur'an not having 114chapters each; don't frustrate here with different page covers, different reading styles and different printing press names or different riwayaat claiming to be different Qur'an.
How to copy this text
😂 I had the same thought. If you have an iPhone you should be able to screenshot it, and go in your pictures, edit, and you should be able to press and hold to copy!
Nice
the first verses were 🥶 idk how (or if) christians can sleep soundly at night after reading them
May Allah bless Islam amen long live the umma of Mohammed pbuh amen ❤
2 Thessalonians 2:11
11 "So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies. 11 And since they're so obsessed with evil, God rubs their noses in it - gives them what they want."
He helps hes followers decieve them
Frank - “Let me ask you one question,”
-……..5 questions later continuing to ask questions
King abbas ❤
I can't believe Frank still turns up to these streams. He can't fathom his own weakness and ignorance.
Claiming God became Man
Only to Die is One of Greatest Lies and Deceptions imaginable
Those who claim it , have been deceived because God does not love
the deceivers , sinful liars , their sin
being their lying, their deception
UMMM.. STAY AWAY FROM THIS TREE OR YOU WILL CERTAINLY DIE ... BUT HE ATE THE FRUIT AND DID NOT DIE 😮 THAT'S DECEPTION
An engineer who spent years studying, can’t answer a clear question! Rather, tries to find excuses why God deceives but what he doesn’t realize is that him trying to find excuses goes against his first answer: GOD DOES NOT DECEIVE! Poor Frank!
Frank: you have to read the context.
The principal is the context now Frank🤣
Frank is the human manifestation of the words ''disingenuous'', ''insincere'' and ''hypocritical''. The first 3 minutes alone he couldn't answer a straight-forward question without Imran squeezing the answer out of him. I hope Frank watches this video and sees himself through the viewer's eyes. It's not a good look for him or Christianity. Honestly a waste of time watching him.
Frank was doing what most xtians would do in that situation.
*Trying to SPIN* as much as he could. LOL
Jeremiah 4:10
Then I said, “Ah, Lord God! Surely You have utterly *deceived* this people and Jerusalem, saying, ‘You will have peace’; whereas a sword touches the throat.”
Jeremiah 20:7
O Lord, You have *deceived* me and I was deceived;
He was just about to create his own interpretations of the bible. May Allah guide us all.
In 1 Kings 22:19-23 (Old Testament), the prophet Micaiah recounts a vision in which God permits a "lying spirit" to influence King Ahab's prophets, leading Ahab to make a disastrous decision that results in his downfall. The text does not depict God as lying directly but as sovereignly allowing the spirit to act in alignment with His purpose of judgment on Ahab, who consistently rejected God's truth.
In contrast, the New Testament emphasizes that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are entirely truthful and do not engage in deception. Key verses such as Titus 1:2 ("God, who cannot lie"), John 14:6 ("I am the way, the truth, and the life"), and John 16:13 (referring to the Holy Spirit as the "Spirit of truth") affirm this.
This Old Testament account highlights God's justice and sovereignty, while the New Testament focuses on His nature as wholly truthful and faithful. Thus, while the New Testament does not describe any instance of God deceiving, the Old Testament shows God allowing deception for specific purposes of judgment within His broader plan.
Stop embarrassing yourself
I mean god the creator of the universe can do whatever he wants how ever he wants who are humans to judge?
It be their own bible ALL THE TIME!
is this an old clip?
Frank loves to be embarrassed intellectually it’s sad he loves punishing himself lol
Allah is the boss amen ❤
you should let them go back and talk about "context" to show them how they are wrong. We do that as Muslims too. Go to context about verses in the Quran too
Imagine dying upon this type of hypocrisy.
What did frank think he proved when he read the context?
Caught in 4K…..!!!
😬😬😬
This backfired really bad 👎 😂😂😂😂😂
@Toronado2 I'm sorry I don't know that Jesus and the thief next to him went straight to Hades. By the way what is Hades?
Frank is the epitome of self deception
Frank, please be Frank. Classic lol
The moment imran started to set d underlining principle mr frank realised he made a huge mistake coming here that day.
Uh. Umm. Oh. Ah. Mmmm. Aaah.
Cat got his tongue
This verse is even more explicit:
For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. 2 Thessalonians 2:11
I don't get Frank's angle with the explanation. He's already agreed to the principle that God cannot/will not deceive anyone. But then his defense is basically, "yeah they were deceived by God"?
For a God to deceives his creations is a nonsense God. End.
Frank is giving dawah in his own way 😅
Be frank Frank😅
They don’t believe in their religion, they just hate we do believe in ours 🤣🤣
they get all their distortions from a certain apolagist who never talks about christianity and only talks about islam. the guy is a lawyer by profession so his entire philiopsopy is blowing up perceived cracks in language. he keeps perpetuating this still even though it was explained to him many times that the verse translates to plan, not deceive. decieve is written as evil plan in arabic, so they see plan and they jump to conclusions, its like someone sees the word Godly, doesnt speak english but is looking for unGodly and think they've found a match.
God can test you and if you try to deceive him or deceive people he deceives you and put you in Hellfire 🔥🔥🔥
"God is not the author of confusion ..." (Corinthians 14:33)
=>>In the Light of the Bible the Concept of GOD the Supreme Being:
>>Ref: BIBLE>: How come Jacob wrestled with God and prevailed?(Genesis 32:24-32)
>>Q: Lowering God the Most Powerful, the Supreme Being as been defeated in a wrestle to a human like Jacob?
>Christianity did not destroy paganism but adopted it...
>Muslim: Who is Jesus?
Christian: Jesus is GOD.
>Muslim: Is it True that Jesus claimed: I & my Father are One and ... Whosoever seen me has seen the Father? >Christian: Absolutely Yes.
>As per Christians' Logic since Jesus & GOD the Father are one.
Therefore, question rises> Did Romans Crucify both GOD the Son & GOD the Father at the same time in the Cross?.
>>NOTES: Muslim astounded: OHH No!
>Muslim: If GOD was Killed on the Cross Who did resurrect GOD Jesus?
>Muslim: It is mentioned in the BIBLE that "GOD alone is IMMORTAL"?
Q: Can GOD be KILLED BY HUMAN??
>Muslim: Was Jesus, GOD the Son Tempted by the Devil for 40 days as the Bible Mentioned?
Christian: Absolutely Yes.
Muslim Q: Can GOD the Magnificent be Tempted by Satan for that long??
=>What Human or Divine logic to apply in order to understand Trinitarian Christian Theology??
>>Extra Biblical Trinitarian Pagan Concept of God which Christianity borrowed from Greek Mythology (Philosophy) and Roman Pagan Faith..
>>To understand the Trinity & Salvation in Christian Theology it must require a sacrifice of your brain-cells!!
-->Scholar Adammax maxon: Christianity belief that God sacrificed God to God to save God’s creation from God.... X-Files
Muslim Q: Can God do anything ?
Christian A: Of course !
Muslim Q: Can God forgive Sin without shedding Innocent Blood of Jesus?
Christian A: Of course not !
=>Though Biblical God's One of the 10 Commandments is: "Thou shall not Kill" but Christianity believes Pagan Romans Killed God the Son, Jesus for their Salvation from sins!!
-->Q: How "Good" (Salvation) can be achieved by the Sinner Humans from the "Evil" of Killing God the Son, Jesus and thus Shedding Innocent Blood of the most innocent God?
-->God the Son, Jesus was constantly begging his GOD on the Cross to take away the "Cup" of Death and eventfully Jesus cried out loudly in the Cross from utterly lost Hope as felt been "Abandoned / Forsaken by his God" .(Ref: Mathew 27:46:)
"My God, my God why though has forsaken me?!
Q: Can God has a God? Then How many Gods Christianity believes in?
Q: Whenever you ask Christians: “Why did God all powerful lowered Himself to be a vulnerable Baby and a Mortal Man to be Killed by Sinner Human?” They say: “if God can do whatever He wants, why wouldn’t He? In order to humble himself for us as an example”.
Q: What: God wanted to humble himself to Sinner Human so that He could be Killed by Sinner Human which really sounds like Paganism??
=>NOTE: According to Islam: God only does that befits His Majesty.
=>NOTE: Christianity adopted so many lies such as:
>The Lie of Santa Claus, Jesus was born in December (actually was not), Jesus is NOT his Name and Jesus did not has blond hair & blue eyes like White European but a Palestinian Man with Black hair & black eyes!
>Jesus is the "Way" to reach the Ultimate "Destination", the Only True GOD(John 17:3), God the Father.
>N.B.> The 'Way' and the 'Destination' are not the same. Therefore, Jesus is the Way but not the Destination, the Only True God.
>Before Jesus came to the World Muses had Guided the 'Way' to Only True God. Thus all prophets respectively were the Way to God in his Time...
>>Thus Prophet Mohammad was sent to correct the true Way to God which over the Time got Corrupted / Deviated due to the Influences of fallible Humans.
>>NOTE: The BIBLE itself destroys the premise in the verses that state, "Any man hung upon a Cross is Cursed by God" and God is not man nor son of man".
In the Bible 'Satan has been mentioned as Lord (God) of the World but in the Quran "Satan been mentioned as "The Cursed one".
As per Bible Jesus also been mentioned as "Cursed" but according to the Muslim Quran Jesus is Blessed, one of the mightiest Prophet of the the Supreme One & Only True God.
=>OHH NO! WHO do Christians REALLY Follow? (It's not truly Jesus but actually PAUL & the CHURCH?)
-NOTE: Paul mentioned what Christian indoctrinated as the main creed of "Salvation":
"There is no Forgiveness without the shedding of "Blood" (Particularly Innocent Blood of Jesus).
=>NOTE: Christians Believe> Christian God cannot Forgive the Sinner without humans Crucifying / Killing Innocent God Jesus and Jesus also was Burned in the Hellfire for three days.
=>Bible mentioned: "Those who Sin are the Children of Devil". And the Consequence of "SIN" is Death (The Eternal Condemnation in Hell).
=>Question Remains as Sin has consequences: For Human which one is the "Greater SIN"?:
-->Q: a) The Sin of Human Killing God Jesus Or, -->Q: b) The Sin of Human Eating a Forbidden Fruit from God's Garden?
-->Q: How "Good" (Salvation) can be achieved by Human's "Evil" of Killing God (God the Son, Jesus) ?
-->Q: God suppose to know Past, Present & Future then why would He create Human with "Free Will" with which Human would fall short commit Sin like eating Forbidden Fruit for Which Innocent God the Son would have to be killed by the very Sinner Humans to achieve their Salvation from God's eternal Punishment?
=>Christians are supposed to follow Old Testament Laws as per Jesus' following command: (NOTE: The Word Christian means Jesus Like and Jesus was a law-abiding Jew)
-->Jesus said (which Modern-day Christianity does not follow):
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, . . . .(Mathew 5: 17+18)
>>According to Bible : "Faith without deeds is dead".
>But as per PAUL: Deeds (following Mosaic Laws) are curses which no more required ...
>>Q: OHH No: HOW PAUL'S OPINION IS THE 'GOD'S FINAL OPINION' ABOUT FAITH & SALVATION which is Contrary to Fundamental Message of all the Messengers of the Only True GOD including Jesus?
>In Matthew 7:21 & 7:22 "Jesus" clearly said *Those who don't do the will of My Father will not enter the kingdom of heaven *. * On that day many will say to me, 'Lord , Lord , did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name , and do many mighty works in your name?' And then I will declare to them , 'I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers *.
-->Q: What's the "Will of My Father" as Jesus mentioned? Is it Violating the most important 1st Commandment by Taking Jesus & Holy Spirit also as God beside GOD The FATHER when Jesus confirmed that " God the Father is the Only TRUE God ." (John 17:3 )?
=>GOD IS NOT A MAN: Numbers 23:19 . God is not a man , that he should lie ; neither the son of man , that he should repent :
Hosea 11 : 9 . for I am God , and not man..
>>OHH: But Christian Claims: Jesus was 100% man and 100% God!!
-->JESUS IS A MAN:
Acts 2:22 . Ye men of Israel , hear these words ; Jesus of Nazareth , a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs , which God did by him in the midst of you , as ye yourselves also know .
>The following verse proves Jesus was not a Universal Messenger of Almighty God and he was sent for the deviated Jews as Jesus proclaimed:
Jesus says, ‘I have sent only for the lost sheeps of Israelis’ (Mathew 15:24)
>That is why, Jesus recommended to follow the Comforter / Paraclete will come after him to guide humanity unto all Truth.... (John 16:13, 14:16)
>NOTE: Prophet Muhammad showed the complete Guidance (all Truth) for Humanity in all aspects of Life to obey / please the Creator, God to attain Success in this Worldly Life as well as the eternal life hereafter..
>>In spite of the Islamophobic & Media Propaganda ISLAM is the Most Practicing and Fastest Growing Religion across the World.
=>NOTE: Judaism rejected JESUS and Christianity but ISLAM established the Bridge among all the three Origins of Abrahamic Faiths upon the 1st & 2nd Commandments and also to Unite the Entire Humanity under the Only True God (Ref: John 17:3) which confirmed by Jesus.
=>TH-cam Video-Clips to watch those are Open-Minded & Truth seeking as Follows:
Paul never met Jesus, yet he invented Christianity - Rabbi Tovia Singer
Christianity Has It All Wrong About God and Jesus | Rabbi Tovia Singer
Did Jesus Claim to be God? Rabbi Tovia Singer Explores the Gospels
Rabbi Tovia Singer: This is why Christianity is Wrong! Sin and Atonement, Sacrifice and the Blood
Russian Jewish Rabbi Accepts ISLAM after Intensive Research
=>ISLAM is the Fulfillment of the Abrahamic Monotheism (Prophet Moses & Prophet Jesus and all the prophets of God's same fundamental Message: Recognize, Worship, Surrender & Obey the Commandments of the One & Only True God but none else.
=>TH-cam Video-Clips to watch those are Open-Minded & Truth seeking as Follows:
Muslims worship the God of Abraham, says Rabbi Tovia Singer
10 Biggest Reasons Muslims Say ISLAM Is True
Who is Allah - Mind Blowing!
The Throne of Allah - Mind blowing
The Meaning of Life | Muslim Revert Talk ISLAM
Top 5 Reasons People Convert to ISLAM | Australian Reaction
Prophet Muhammad -The greatest man in history
Karen Armstrong : Islam is the Greatest Religion in the World
The Pope ADMITS that ISLAM is a Path to GOD
AMERICAN BISHOP: The Future of the World Will Belong to Muslims!
=>NOTE:> 'Islamic Justice for Salvation' is nothing But exact same as mentioned in Ezekiel 18 (para-phrasing}: "The Wickedest of the Wicked if turn away from Sins and Repent and do what is lawful & righteous surely he won't die but live.
And his Sins will be forgiven (never be remembered) as if he never committed Sin."
2 Thessalonians 2:11 God can deceive people
Only using the same old tactics, Christians when confronted with truth always go the Mary go around.They always change the goal post when cornered, proves the Holy Spirit is not living with them .
I can't listen to this Christian. May Allah guide him to the truth ☝🏼
Quite frankly Frank stop being frank after the verse was read to him 😅
Allah does not deceive any body
Who named him Frank?
I have second hand embarrassment from frank and I'm a muslim 😅. This was a joy to watch .No Non sense approach is spot on !
“Who says they didn't?”; so he can make any claim, because who says it's not true, right? What a ridiculous defence. On how many different points does Frank need to be exposed as a hypocrite before he has any shame?
He's been going to various channels to challenge Islam for _yeeears_.
All these years ...and Frank still doesn't have shame for being utterly disingenuous