The amount of work indies put into marketing for successful books is INSANE. I'm hybrid, but because I'm not going to put on that much effort anytime soon, any book of mine that goes through my trad publisher will do better. 👍
I'm a full time teacher. It has literally never occurred to me that I might one day quit my job and be able to support myself with my writing. Just isn't realistic.
@@thaddeusc44 Writing full time is just not realistic. I'm sorry some people are in such a position; that really does suck. But lots of people who aren't writers or artists are also in similar positions, and what they do is... try to find another job. Of course, you have to take retirement, health insurance, and job security into account. Such is life :-\
Not to be brusque, but: why not? There’s plenty of authors out there doing just that! (And I don’t mean the Brandon Sandersons amongst us, either!) I’m sure you could, and as a teacher you’d have an advantage in terms of the craft of writing itself!
That's probably a good mindset. But just so you know, there are lots of writers who are supporting themselves simply by writing. And I am not talking about famous ones. If you are trying to write some masterpieces or trying to change people's mindsets or something, that's not realistic. If you are willing to write anything--such as some genres and troupes people are crazy about--though, that is quite possible.
@@ArtemisMS that's pretty much true in any and all creative gigs. Art, music, instruments, writing, film, photography, idk anything you can list really
I am going the Indie route, and it’s purely for the love of the story I want to tell. All money I make from my books will go directly into investments for the future, I won’t be touching any of it for a long time… that is only in the event of me making money after reimbursing myself for the self-publishing cost. I just want to share my story, I’m not in it for the money, I’m well aware the possibility of making tons of money.
Alexa: *makes amazing points about the state of American healthcare and the inconsistency of author’s payments* Me: Yes, yes, so what I’m hearing is I need to marry rich. Jk, love your stuff, Alexa! It’s so helpful when you do deep dives like this. You illuminate the trad pub industry so well.
Speaking from the Indie perspective, with a background in corporate sales - I’d say the question of Indie longevity has been pretty much laid to rest. The first Kindle (and thus the first books) launched in 2007. That’s fifteen years - nearly the two decades you quoted - and if you check the Indie scene you’ll see that quite a few authors who started writing in the very early days of Kindle are still active and working as authors. A fifteen year record of growth is pretty impressive, especially since it’s matched by an increasing number of authors making $50,000USD/yr
Alexa is right. I find that working a day job full time and writing part time is the best for me. I get security of full time benefits, retirement, steady income while writing as my passion project. I have one book trad published back in November 2021.
For me, in terms of money it always comes down to perspective. A minimum wage worker might quit his job gladely for the advances mid list authors get, but if you have earned your 60k in the corporate world … you don’t just throw that away.
Yes, true, but a minimum wage worker should not quit their job--not long term--for a midlist book deal. Because what will they do when they make 0 income one year? That happened to me. From my first, 2 book deal, I got paid in 2017, 2018 and then NOTHING in 2019. The 2017 payment was the largest, but after taxes--because 1019 income is taxed higher than W2 income--it wasn't much... though maybe someone used to min-wage could live off it for a single year (not in Los Angeles, though). But not more than one year. I got even less in 2018--the equivalent of having a part time job for part of the year (minimum wage). And then nothing. So that min-wage worker would be stretching the equivalent of one year of income across three years. Most people can't do that without other income/support (like I said: lots of authors are married to partners with income). You have to be SUPREMELY good at budgeting and prepare for entire years or more than one year making $0--it can be unpredictable. A book not selling or taking longer to sell--or write--can mean you have zero income for 1-2 years. That's the issue--it's unstable income. But, yes, also very true: I make more than minimum wage, and that has a huge bearing on my feelings.
@@AlexaDonne Recognizing that one CAN live on less than the conventional amount lowers the bar, though--makes supporting oneself a more achievable goal. While I take your point about your trad publishing income, added to your income from your TH-cam channel, I bet it's enough to replace a full time minimum wage job. That you don't want to live off it is legit, but some people get daunted by the idea that they "have" to have a certain amount of money to support themselves--when in reality, if they live somewhere like Kansas (where I'm from), they don't need anywhere near that much.
@@r.brooks5287 Wow, how do you manage? 😱 Probably by turning every penny twice? When my parents were young, they set down and calculated their expenses and got to the conclusion, that they were spending too much money on milk (with two toddlers back then). I mean … milk is super cheap, where I live!
I decided to go indie, mainly because after watching this channel and doing more reading, I just decided trad wasn't something I wanted to pursue. I would not be able to give up control, I just wouldn't. So, yeah, I sunk $7000 into editing, book cover design, and marketing, and I spent about 1 year and 6 months writing and revising and doing beta sessions and revising more, but in my opinion, I think it was worth it. Yes, I have not made back my investment (not even close lol), but I learned so much about writing and the business of writing, and I wouldn't change my decision. I've managed to reach a lot of readers, and I continuously market myself, sending out copies to people in giveaways, keeping my social media updated, keeping my website up. I've branded myself in a certain niche, and I'm confident in my writing and my ability to story-tell that one day I may write a book that gets a lot more attention, which will get people reading my other books (when I publish more). My debut book was the hardest, and my second book has been easier. The third book will be easier as well as I learn. It is a long-term game.
Alexa I have confidence you can get that tv/movie contract, I think it's more about the trends and what's available to satisfy that niche. Thanks for another great video, love em! I'm on week 2 awaiting response from 2 agents, wish me luck!
I'm a traditionally-published picture book author with a day job as a VP at a movie studio, and I identify with this 100%. I grew up in a low-income immigrant family, and so a steady paycheck and stable finances are beautiful things to me. When friends ask me when I'm going to start writing full-time, I just chuckle (and this is despite the fact that I got one of my books optioned by a major studio for a nice chunk of change -- nope, still ain't gonna quit the wonderful day job!). Thanks for your refreshing honesty!
Solidarity high five! Also now I'm like *eyes emoji* if we work for the same studio haha. Though I'm nowhere fancy--I'm on the distribution side of things XD
@@AlexaDonne High five right back at ya! I work at the home of Spider-Man ;) And I'm on the distribution side, too. The production/theatrical side is way too hectic (and perhaps too sexy) for me!
@@helenakurhee407 OMG twins! That's exactly why I like distribution too! The "sexy" jobs have more competition, shittier pay (entry level), and expect more overtime/taking work home with you. I love the work/life balance I have--I rarely if EVER have to work "off the clock." We should meet up sometime for coffee or drinks and talk shop! I'm at a place that really likes dinos lollllll.
@@AlexaDonne Haha, I am SO with you! I like how working on the distribution side is much like being a corporate cog anywhere -- do your work, go home (or WFH), repeat. Premieres, galas, schmoozefests = no thanks. I like preserving my energy/brain space for my personal creative projects. Would love to meet up! After the July 4th holiday would be good due to travel, etc. I'll be in touch. We'll do some real talk :)
Alexa, you are a unicorn. You are published by Random House--I would bet it's easy to forget how rare that is given the circles you move in! It's like being a professor. Everyone around you has a PhD, so it doesn't always feel like the achievement it is. Anyhow, you're an awesome author and an awesome person. Thank you for sharing all these thoughts!
Hihi, your comment about America made me giggle 🤭 I am from Germany, but there are pros and cons when it comes to book money: 1) the German book market is huge, but it can’t compare to the English book market. No way. 2) Movie rights? Ha ha ha. Even IF (and that’s an even bigger if then in the US) they sell, it’s probably gonna be a bad tv movie and won’t make you rich. 3) Our health insurance is covered by the „Künstersozialkasse“, a health insurance specifically for artists and writers. And it isn’t expensive either, since it’s income based. 😊😊
I'm in the UK and worked out I need 14,000 Euros a year. We're so lucky not having to worry over healthcare. I usually stick £200 aside a year to cover dentist/new glasses ect.
I love how frank and genuine this discussion was. I've been writing for ten years, but only at the very start of my writing career. I just finished my first manuscript and quit my job to continue writing full-time. Luckily, I have a supportive partner to make that possible and currently no commitments to a mortgage or kids. I'm giving it a red hot go before other responsibilities take priority. So any income in the near future, no matter how little, is going to be significant 😊
Thank you for making this video. My therapist has been challenging me to reframe my metrics after all the healing I've done with my past- and I think I'm starting to identify all the ways I may need to do that. So thank you.
I like the idea of being a hybrid author and enjoying the pros of both trad and indie publishing. I’ve heard from hybrid authors that they make more from trad but more frequent income from indie. I just don’t know if I can be prolific enough to do indie 😅
Yes, that makes sense is the reason I've seen a lot of savvy trad people go hybrid. Long term, it can be super smart for an author to do. I, too, just wish I wrote fast enough to be good at indie!!! I have a few ideas I think would KILL in indie romance, but I know I don't have the bandwidth/skill to write them quickly on top of my trad books. Some day.
@@AlexaDonne This is the main reason I want to quit my job... because I want to publish indie, but as you put it, I don't have the "bandwidth" to generate that kind of volume if my energy is being siphoned off by my job. I don't think that's the work dynamic that everyone has--but for me, it seems to be a tradeoff, with a limited amount of energy that has to be parceled out for one thing or the other. I'm a teacher. I get breaks in the summer and winter--but it takes time for me to switch gears and really start writing, so I don't produce as much as I want to--and during the semester, it just doesn't happen.
I always for traditional publishing, I think it has a charm in it! And I have a feeling you are going to skyrocket in your career soon. Please make videos again about writing (how to nicely write and so, we love those videos) ❤️
Hey Alexa, I've watched dozens of your videos, and I've hit the like button, but I've not left a comment until now. I LOVE your channel. You strike a delicate balance between great content, tough love, vulnerability, and humor. I know that I'm a better writer because of your channel. Thank you so much for sharing with us. :-D
Alexa, I agree with you, even as an indie author. I have a very successful career as my day job and my writing is a passion-based side hustle. That's not to diminish my writing in any way, it just so happens making other people money makes me more money than all my artistic endeavors combined... multiplied by like 100 lifetimes. It's sad writing and creating art can't make a lot of money, or even enough just to live off of, but it's always been this way. I keep telling my editor, "I'll be famous and adored as a writer after I'm dead, just like all the greats." 😂😭😂😭 #EstatePlanningWisely
Hi Alexa - have just discovered your channel and you have made me laugh this morning. Love your style and your candid advice on all things writing/publishing. Very interesting listening to what you have to say. Thanks a lot and I have my fingers crossed you get your “if, then!”
I was so excited for this video and I loved it! I honestly hadn't thought about it from this perspective and I'm so glad you shared! I think your videos have helped me come to realize I'll probably keep my day job for a long time, at least part time even if I start doing well!
1. I could 100% see The Ivies as a movie or series. It's got all the elements. 2. If someone really wanted to make a living from writing, there are tons of options other than being a fiction author. For example, I'm a copywriter for a marketing agency and it's a great job. One caveat: it's really hard to come home and work on your own projects after churning out copy for 8+ hours. On the other hand, I worked for a large tech distributor for years (until the 2009 Recession 😬) and knew a ton of people there who were local musicians, actors, and artists. I'm in a small city where you can't make a living locally in the arts. A "big break" would require relocation. I liked to think of them as acting as their own "Patron of the Arts."
Love this. It's so true, and an important discussion. For me, at this point, another contract would feel like success because the first seems like a lucky fluke. 😬
I think the shift here is between people who want to write and be published, and people who want to publishing in order to make money. The first ones went into writing with the aim of finishing one book , and then hopefully to be published. The second one went into writing already with the idea of making money out of it. As you said though, they don't have to be mutually exclusive! Personally, when I'll write a book I think I'll go the traditional way, especially considering that if I were to write in my native language, which is Italian, it would make much more sense for me. I don't know about the US, but in Italy self-publishing doesn't have the best reputation, and as a former bookstore owner for 10 years, I can totally understand why: books with tons of grammatical mistakes, typos, lack of editing to the point of chaos in the verb tenses, and let's not talk about covers, layout, fonts and the like! Then, of course, there are exceptions, I only speak for what I've seen with the Italian self-publishing system.
i wish you all the success with your pie in the sky. i would love to see that happen😊 and enjoy the extra content we'd get from you as a bonus hehe. im actually planning on purchasing a book of yours as soon as i get down to research which one of them i should read first, and or which is the least thrillerly one, or maybe someone out here would tell me and recommend lol (cause ive never rlly read thriller before and wanna be cautious about trying a new genre)
It’s fascinating how much personal circumstance and lifestyle come into the money equation. My husband and I make basically minimum wage but we’re self-employed, working from home on creative endeavours that make us happy, so we don’t mind living simply. What I’d need to make from books is definitely less than most people as a result. It helps that I’m Canadian (government health care) and living in a small town, so we don’t need as much to get by. The unpredictability and infrequency of trad pub payments is the main thing that would encourage me to hold on to secondary income, at least till I felt well-established.
Health care is such a huge thing and the whole American system sucks! It's one of the main things tying me to my day job, especially as I get older. (I'm fortunately set for retirement due to a weird set of circumstances)
Thank you for doing these videos!!! Very helpful. Very informative. I’m currently writing a story, horror, and I had some questions. I watched a couple videos which answered the ones that I had on certain topics.
Thank you so much for talking about this. I've been thinking a lot about what success means to me. Lindsey Puckett- which I found because of your loveliness- talked about doing dreams and then goals to those dreams to help define her success and I tried that. It was wonderful advice. But I so greatly appreciate your insight too. I think we would be great friends if we ever met in person!
Thanks for this, Alexa! So incredibly lucky that I love my day job! Much as I love writing, I'd never want to do it full-time. I just want to finish and publish a book, that's it! (Hopefully more than one!)
I love your mindset so much, Alexa (I also adore your eye shadow). I really want traditional publishing for my "big" novels, though lately I've considered self-publishing shorter novellas under a pen name. If I get even a modest amount of success, I think it'll help bolster my confidence and even provide "proof" to an agent or publisher that yes, I am marketable. Also, I feel like short books may have a better niche with self-publishing than traditional publishers. Unless you're a more successful author and an anthology of short stories is something that a trad publisher would be willing to do. In the meantime, I'm going to go look up your other videos on self-publishing and see if that can be a good short term solution while I finish up the big novels and do my querying. Thank you so much, Alexa. I hope you're doing well :)
Though listening to your video on refraining from self-publishing if you are going to eventually traditional publish, I wonder if you have the same opinion if you'll be publishing different types of books under different names? For example, will a traditional publisher care if I previously self-published short stories under a different name. I know you're a busy gal and I don't expect a response, so thank you again for all of your lovely videos!
I totally understand this mindset and this reframing. And I totally think it's sad that the creators and innovators that support an entire industry have to make these concessions and mindshifts. The way traditional publishing is set up sucks for everyone but the very highest corporate folks. I wonder if someday a publishing company will realize if they get a clue, move out of New York and pay their authors and editors, that they would have the supreme advantage over every other publisher. Because everyone would want to work there and everyone would want to publish with them. It would be the best business move possible even from a corporate perspective and it's just sitting there unclaimed.
It wasn't always this way all that long ago, though, and as authors, we basically did it to ourselves by thinking it's okay to write "for the love of the art".
I am so lucky to have a husband with a decent job, which makes my full time role 'home schooling mother'. This makes it hard to get the writing done, and I am itching for it to be 'full time' but I'm slowly edging up to making a decent amount from writing/writing related things. In the next few years I definitely want to shift that balance to earning more income from my book sales than I do from writing related things.
I'm so surprised to hear your perspective, given that you know how to grow your own audience and have contact with them completely apart from a publisher. I was offered a traditional deal that sucked. For me, the solution to the health insurance / sole source of income situation is to make more money. (My TH-cam channel already supports me.) Would you consider testing indie for a book or 2 to see if you can outperform your publisher in marketing?
I'm just not interested at this time. I'm a slow writer, and all my immediate ideas are better suited to trad, who are paying me adequately while handling all the work I'm not interested in doing (editing, proofreading, page setting, printing, distribution). I just got a raise at work--a significant one, so I'm happy to continue juggling things as I am. I've finally got the perfect equilibrium that suits my needs. It might be different if my advances sucked, but they don't, and I really love my editor at Random House--she continues to make me a better and better writer, and I don't want to halt that momentum. Just what's working for me personally!
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The hunger for the next PLL is rising, and I think The Ivies has great potential to fill that want. So it may not be as far-off as you think. I also think teens are super duper over the Riverdale-fication of all teen media and the Ivies has the book, but is grounded. And PDQ definitely has the vibe I think the teen television market is starting to hunger for!
I'm not sure which I'll go. All I want is to make a living wage and have my own tv show. With indie, you have more control, but you have to either do everything yourself, or pay people to do it for you out of pocket. With trad, the experts are paid by taking cuts from your book's earnings.
Great video Alexa! This is a topic I absolutely thirst after lol. 😆 I do have a question for anyone who may be able to answer: Is $25-40k annually possible in trad pub (midlist or otherwise) or is even that a relatively rare occurrence?
Yes, it's possible but only if you manage to establish a steady career, ie: selling books consistently past your first book deal, if those advances are decent. Also possible/helped if you can earn out at least one book and start making royalties. Meaning: if you can sell approximately a book a year for 50-75K advance, paid in no more than 4 payments (3 is better), where you are never late turning in books (so you're paid "on time"), and you budget well? Yes. You can also pick up some IP/packaged jobs on the side to fluff that income b/c they're often paid upfront/flat rate (so you can make a "quick" 15-20K on a write for hire). This is why I encourage authors who get splashy debut deals to wait to make big decisions until their debut comes out/they see what the reality is for them, re: that next book deal. Things can shift in year 2/3 after your deal either for better or for worse. I've seen too many authors hit a wall on year 3/book deal #2 (3rd book) to ever be secure to advise job-quitting too early.
@@AlexaDonne Same question but...would this be possible in commercial fiction? Say, Harlequin? Obviously, advances for those are so much lower for starters.
@@halfamo2422 My above answer was in regard to commercial fiction... 50-75k is considered an above average but attainable advance for commercial fiction. If you're niche or with a low-balling publisher, no you wont' be able to make a living off 15K advances, for example. You might squeak by if you're savvy with 35K advances, another very common advance level for midlist commercial titles. AFAIK, Big 5 adult romance (trade) doesn't pay that low? They pay down-the-middle standard advances (and some very big ones to some authors). I don't know anyone in the mass market paperback arena, however, and can't speak to that.
Don’t forget to calculate in your agent’s standard 15% commission subtracted from your advance and subsequent royalties. Most traditional publishers want you to be agented because they only accept submissions from agents.
@@AlexaDonne Thank you so much for your detailed response! Fortunately, I do have a partner; unfortunately he’s a schoolteacher, so not the greatest salary in the world 😅 and I’d be looking to supplement his income since I’m chronically ill and unable to work or collect disability. Thank you again for your fabulous video and reply!
19:40 No shade for sticking to your job, but this is my plan--move somewhere cheap. Find the most inexpensive set-up so that I have less to earn in order to support myself. Everybody is talking $50 thousand as the benchmark of how much one needs to support oneself, but I think I could swing it on $15--not in LA, of course.
Yeah if I didn't work in the TV industry I would live elsewhere, though honestly I've never not lived in a major coastal city so I've accepted I'll simply always spend an assload of my income on rent and be frugal everywhere else (which is what I do now--I'm very cheap about a lot of things!). Though man a cheaper city would be GREAT. A smaller one even--I love smaller cities!
Love the advice a bit of a bomber that it’s so hard to quit day job I was hopping that would be fairly doable for expert writers. Oh well guess I’ll have to be extra savy and be nice to my boss for a while longer. P.s I have 5 chapters left to complete 1st draft of 1st fantasy novel and you was one of those I took advice from
Love this. I am traditionally published (though started mostly doing short articles and short fiction until more recent years). Bottom line, don't quit your day job. 😉
I feel like most authors teach at the college level. Some started before they got their break out novel published (like Carmen Machado) and some after ( Neil Gaiman). Which is interesting because teaching can also be an unstable environment
Traditional publishing is a dream, and the advance system is just a cherry on top. Thank you for this video, Alexa. Could you give some tips for submitting to small publishing houses that don't require an agent? How is the process different? Submission letter? Do we need professionally edited manuscript? With no advocate (agent) how will the advance system vary? Is it okay to work with such publishing houses who don't require agents, is it safe? Thank you :)
My goal is just to write a book a year and self publish. My other goal is not to lose too much money self publishing. That's it. it would be great if I had some readers but I'm writing for myself, so those two goals are good enough for me.
I come from a similar background and totally agree. Also, I’m getting into writing in my 40s and prefer short stories (lol clearly not gunning for tons of full time cash from creativity).
The "thing" I want out of my eventual trad pub career is wide distribution and influence. As many Black people reading my books as possible. I am fortunate to have a day job with good compensation and benefits. Fully remote, great coworkers, and flexibility. In the midst of the perpetual "self vs trad publishing" conversation, it's easy to forget that not every author wants to write full time. Writers are not split into categories of "full time writer" or "writer who wishes they were full time." Many of us happily have other careers and/or own businesses. I am at peace with my decision to pursue traditional publishing. Could I make more money in self publishing? Maybe -- and that's a strong maybe. But I'd also have to do a bunch of other stuff I don't really want instead of focusing on the part I like: writing.
I quite liked this video. The thought that you're a successful author only if you millions of people read your book is kinda infecting a lot of authors early on in their journey. It is actually required to reframe that and analyse what is our success vision. For example, I think I feel the most joy in the process of writing than when I'm getting reader feedback. So, for me being able to write something that makes me happy would be a pretty big success. Now, it might change after a few years, LOL. But till then, we can stop stressing. 😂
I would just want people to read what I've written and experience my imagination. I've always had a very good imagination but I've never been able to share any of these stories in my head. It would be nice to earn something too but I think that's not the most important part of writing. A writer from my area told me about a group she belongs to that only has writers from the area and gave me advice to join once I publish my first book. Her most important advice was to keep writing even if you don't end up publishing.
Ironically, I feel like trad publishing is the better option for writers who bend and blend genres. Many of the successful indies discuss how they always “hit the tropes” of a hot genre.
I really want to be an author but have been prioritizing stuff like health and graduating/studying over the last couple of years. And would want to be an author for fun, because I love storytelling and reading. I've enjoyed writing since I was good enough at Dutch to put down stories. My father installed a love for stories, he used to make them up for us during vacations on the spot (and sometimes at home too, depending on my age and also other circumstances). But honestly I just want a stable part-time job to support myself with (or another stable income that supports my life) and do writing at the side even if I could live off of writing. Creative endeavors can be unstable and volatile and for me it just seems like a bad idea to depend on creativity for my income. Obviously writing books isn't just creative but you need the ideas and inspiration. I've quite a bit written down in a notebook. Both book ideas and basic plotting for stories. But you never know when it'll block or when your situation (health or otherwise) won't allow for creativity. Personally my creativity can go down quick if I'm overstimulated and it's especially noticeable when it happens for longer periods of time. Autism is no joke although there are a decent amount of ways to deal with it and work with not against your brain. It definitely is a disability at times. I'd just prefer stability with supplemental income. I think my success measures would be more in the vein of: - publishing my first book (or a first book in a genre). It honestly feels like a success for me to fully complete something. I've had to break off things because of autism several times. This includes university education. It's really bad for your confidence if you get rejected for basic internships for years straight. But now I know I will get out of it and have a way better view of what I want. - publishing a set number of books in a genre (or just being able to sell them. I've got a feeling that regular romance will probably sell somewhere. It's the most sold genre after all and I've got some ideas). - Just being able to tell people I got to publish a book. Luckily my friends and family are supportive in this. One of my aunts works as a translator for a publisher so I know that'll be fine. I just like your view on this. And I keep wondering if I wanna self pub or not. I like having control over as many components as possible, but on the other hand when I look at my goals and current success measures it might be wise to at least strongly consider trad pub. What do you think (just curious, it most likely won't influence my decision for many reasons)? I feel like if trad pub doesn't like my manuscripts and gives the reasons (which they probably don't always do) I might then consider self pubbing after some more editing. But self pubbing is expensive in upfront cost and I'd be just fine with advance money if it's just a side hustle for fun, you know. Ah well, if it ever comes to it, we'll see if I look for an agent or go indie. Or maybe hybrid depending on the book. I'm already planning on using a pseudonym anyway so creating one for trad and one for indie publishing wouldn't be much of a big deal. Is it true that traditional publishers don't like it when you also self publish or is it more than it can negatively impact the chances you sell books because they can see the sales of your indie books?
A couple of questions about using Query Tracker and also about agencies/agents. I'm in the UK, does QT feature UK agents and publishers or is it focused only/mainly on the USA. A second question is, how can I distinguish between good, well connected and organized, energetic and pro-active agencies/agents . . . and agencies/agents who just take on clients and send out your book to publishers but aren't that dynamic in fighting for you (I just assume there are the two types).
Back at 2013, my "If...then" in the past was publish a book, get a movie deal, and live a good life. Now at 2022 (and now knowledgeable about the craft and the industry), my "If...then" became publish a book, keep my day job, and probably still keep my day job even when hitting New York Times 🤣 In fairness, US dollar is a big currency when converted to my country's currency so unless I get a movie or TV deal and it succeeds (on top of producing more books), I guess that's the only time I can quit my day job. Also, I never thought much about royalty rates. Yeah it's there and it's a nice feeling if you do get them, but one has to assume IF you can earn your advance. What if your advance is mega huge because of, say for an example, you got an auction? Auctions are great because it makes you feel wanted, but ya'll have to consider if the advance they're giving might be good for you in the long run. Remember, relatively few books earn out so while it's okay for you to be excited, you have to consider some realistic scenarios, too.
This might be a dumb question, but I honestly don't know the answer. Don't you have to pay back advances if you don't earn them out? I had a friend who published with a certain popular romance publisher in the early 2000s, and there was a clause that said if they didn't earn the advance in 5 years they had to pay it back. Is that still a thing? Or is this something you negotiate out of your contract?
If someone gets a big amount for their first deal, then maybe the book doesn’t do as well as expected, don’t advances go down for subsequent deals? That kills any career possibility I think. That sucks! I’m starting to think a moderate first deal that the publisher makes their money back on is best for long term careers
As someone who had Sony option the rights for my debut novel (THE LAST SHE) I wanted to add that there is a HUGE difference from being optioned to actually getting a t.v. show or movie made for your book. While I'm so thankful my book was optioned, and it's a dream come true, it's not even close to "quit your job" money. It's more like a nice yearly payment that helps by some new writing equipment, or a writer retreat ;) Also, most options never get made into television/film (so when you ask people who get optioned when there movie is coming, usually the answer is never). I assume that the big money comes when you get into film/tv, but even so, I wish there was more transparency on things like that (even though I'm adding to it by not sharing--I'm afraid I'll get in trouble somehow!). I was thinking of author Beth Reekles, who wrote The Kissing Booth, and had several successful Netflix movies made of them. I believe she didn't go full time for several years after the movies came out. I think she also worked a full time job, and like the security. Anyways, I really liked Alexa's comments and viewpoint in this video (I always do!). I think it's a good viewpoint to remember that being successful in writing doesn't mean you're making enough money to be a full-time writer. We can define success however we'd like
I don't want to be reduced to a brand... so I have no clue what to do really. I'll probably go for a mix but I don't know which books to trad pub and which to indie.
That's an amazing platform! Congrats. Any platform is good and can help a query, though imo unless you can prove a correlation of those followers/views to sales I don't think it would be a sure-thing (ie: it's rare for a social media following to guarantee a book deal!). But it would very likely, at this point in time, to get you extra notice/eyes from agents and in turn publishers, given how in-demand a TikTok platform is. So it may very well increase your odds/cut down your "wait time" in the trenches. I would absolutely front load it in your bio!
I've just started my research on (trad) advance numbers, most things seem to say 10k for 1st time authors but I read some are as low as 1k... that would only be like 3 dollars an hour, with no tips 😅 would a publisher actually only offer 1k?
A VERY small one. I've not seen any major or Big 5 publisher offer less than 10K in a long long time. Some do 12 or 15K but those are the lowball outliers. 20K is far more common on the lower end, but 35K is a relatively common sweet spot advance for many authors/genres from major and Big 5 pubs. Lots of people I know get 50K per book.
Yes, I've seen reports from Australian and Canadian micro / small publishers, some even having no advance. A good way to discover author's advances is by looking at surveys done by universities. You won't find individual ones, but clusters, which can help with info.
You are a writer. The amount of money you make doesn't mean you're not a writer. It's not money for me, but it's control. I've been small pressed published without an advance for years. Most of my books are out of print. My last self-published ebooks were experiments after I pulled the series from the publisher. I know you didn't speak about piracy. But I realize that is an illusion because my free eBooks have already been pirated. I am thinking of KU, or maybe traditional small press. My goal is to find readers and give my husband a few gifts.
Thanks for the video Alexa!! I was wondering from your experience in trad pub how likely is it for someone to get signed with a book that has series potential and be able to retain rights to self publish after if the series is not continued by the publisher?
We do ourselves a disservice by being okay with not getting paid. By being okay with it, we literally lower our value in the marketplace when we do get those good opportunities we work so hard to obtain. I'm not okay with not being paid for my efforts. Under my real name, I went to uni for journalism (and had the loans to prove it), honed my craft, and ended up moving away from writing and into a profession that pays well and uses my writing as a skill that's not the main part of the job. This sounds harsh, but I don't write for free unless the result will truly promote something I'm doing, and I wish other aspiring professional writers would adapt that mindset. There's nothing wrong with being a hobbyist writer if someone doesn't want to go pro. If that's the case, though, I wish the hobbyists would be honest with themselves about that, get out of the way by not going for professional writing opportunities, and stop lowering our market value.
There are tons of writers getting paid well above market value. It's not like there aren't thousands of people pursuing degrees in the literary sphere each year; soaring above the mass isn't a question of whether others are 'undervaluing' themselves, but rather if a writer possesses the right skillset to advertise themselves in the deluge of talents available. I've witnessed the freelancing pages of a lot of degree-holders who complained of low opportunities; no hook was to be seen, rates could be easily negotiated, and portfolios showed no versatility. Besides, a client seeking low rates could just as easily find cheap, English-proficient writers overseas.
Can you please answer this question, I am really struggling to find an answer to this. Does a novel have to have a set story unfolding from the beginning to the end or it could be episodic as in chapters have their stories that begin and end in the chapter while some continuing throughout the book (relationships, values,....). Because i have heard the book has to have some hard plot from the first word to the last Best example i could find is the show Mad Men (hope you have seen it and can use it as a reference)
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For me just publishing a book would be a success for me.
That’s a fact. 🏁
Same! Determined to finish this year!
Have you read Bird by Bird yet? The author talks about how getting published is kind of a "false goal".
@@k.l.7782 no I haven’t read this.
Also, just finishing a novel is a huge accomplishment.
The amount of work indies put into marketing for successful books is INSANE. I'm hybrid, but because I'm not going to put on that much effort anytime soon, any book of mine that goes through my trad publisher will do better. 👍
Exactly RIGHT!
I think Brandon Sanderson's kickstarter gave a bit of perspective to how much money big trad pub authors make for publishers.
I'm a full time teacher. It has literally never occurred to me that I might one day quit my job and be able to support myself with my writing. Just isn't realistic.
I’m teaching so I can indulge my love of writing during school breaks.
@@thaddeusc44 Writing full time is just not realistic. I'm sorry some people are in such a position; that really does suck. But lots of people who aren't writers or artists are also in similar positions, and what they do is... try to find another job. Of course, you have to take retirement, health insurance, and job security into account. Such is life :-\
Not to be brusque, but: why not? There’s plenty of authors out there doing just that! (And I don’t mean the Brandon Sandersons amongst us, either!)
I’m sure you could, and as a teacher you’d have an advantage in terms of the craft of writing itself!
That's probably a good mindset. But just so you know, there are lots of writers who are supporting themselves simply by writing. And I am not talking about famous ones. If you are trying to write some masterpieces or trying to change people's mindsets or something, that's not realistic. If you are willing to write anything--such as some genres and troupes people are crazy about--though, that is quite possible.
@@ArtemisMS that's pretty much true in any and all creative gigs. Art, music, instruments, writing, film, photography, idk anything you can list really
I am going the Indie route, and it’s purely for the love of the story I want to tell. All money I make from my books will go directly into investments for the future, I won’t be touching any of it for a long time… that is only in the event of me making money after reimbursing myself for the self-publishing cost.
I just want to share my story, I’m not in it for the money, I’m well aware the possibility of making tons of money.
I'm kind of in that boat too. My occupation is electrical engineering. I don't intend to change that. I just want to complete what I started.
i have a question if I'm traditionally publishing my books do I find endorsements before sending my work to the publishers or they do that for me
@@pinkpanther7369Publishers do that for you.
Alexa: *makes amazing points about the state of American healthcare and the inconsistency of author’s payments*
Me: Yes, yes, so what I’m hearing is I need to marry rich.
Jk, love your stuff, Alexa! It’s so helpful when you do deep dives like this. You illuminate the trad pub industry so well.
We ALL need to marry rich!
Speaking from the Indie perspective, with a background in corporate sales - I’d say the question of Indie longevity has been pretty much laid to rest.
The first Kindle (and thus the first books) launched in 2007. That’s fifteen years - nearly the two decades you quoted - and if you check the Indie scene you’ll see that quite a few authors who started writing in the very early days of Kindle are still active and working as authors.
A fifteen year record of growth is pretty impressive, especially since it’s matched by an increasing number of authors making $50,000USD/yr
Alexa is right. I find that working a day job full time and writing part time is the best for me. I get security of full time benefits, retirement, steady income while writing as my passion project. I have one book trad published back in November 2021.
For me, in terms of money it always comes down to perspective. A minimum wage worker might quit his job gladely for the advances mid list authors get, but if you have earned your 60k in the corporate world … you don’t just throw that away.
Yes, true, but a minimum wage worker should not quit their job--not long term--for a midlist book deal. Because what will they do when they make 0 income one year? That happened to me. From my first, 2 book deal, I got paid in 2017, 2018 and then NOTHING in 2019. The 2017 payment was the largest, but after taxes--because 1019 income is taxed higher than W2 income--it wasn't much... though maybe someone used to min-wage could live off it for a single year (not in Los Angeles, though). But not more than one year. I got even less in 2018--the equivalent of having a part time job for part of the year (minimum wage). And then nothing. So that min-wage worker would be stretching the equivalent of one year of income across three years. Most people can't do that without other income/support (like I said: lots of authors are married to partners with income). You have to be SUPREMELY good at budgeting and prepare for entire years or more than one year making $0--it can be unpredictable. A book not selling or taking longer to sell--or write--can mean you have zero income for 1-2 years. That's the issue--it's unstable income. But, yes, also very true: I make more than minimum wage, and that has a huge bearing on my feelings.
@@AlexaDonne Recognizing that one CAN live on less than the conventional amount lowers the bar, though--makes supporting oneself a more achievable goal. While I take your point about your trad publishing income, added to your income from your TH-cam channel, I bet it's enough to replace a full time minimum wage job. That you don't want to live off it is legit, but some people get daunted by the idea that they "have" to have a certain amount of money to support themselves--when in reality, if they live somewhere like Kansas (where I'm from), they don't need anywhere near that much.
@@anival9576 Luckily I've had lots of practice at living on a low and unreliable income, lol. I need 15k a year.
@@AlexaDonne Good point, Alexa. A year without income does not sound fun at all, if you don’t have a support system.
@@r.brooks5287 Wow, how do you manage? 😱 Probably by turning every penny twice?
When my parents were young, they set down and calculated their expenses and got to the conclusion, that they were spending too much money on milk (with two toddlers back then). I mean … milk is super cheap, where I live!
I decided to go indie, mainly because after watching this channel and doing more reading, I just decided trad wasn't something I wanted to pursue. I would not be able to give up control, I just wouldn't. So, yeah, I sunk $7000 into editing, book cover design, and marketing, and I spent about 1 year and 6 months writing and revising and doing beta sessions and revising more, but in my opinion, I think it was worth it. Yes, I have not made back my investment (not even close lol), but I learned so much about writing and the business of writing, and I wouldn't change my decision.
I've managed to reach a lot of readers, and I continuously market myself, sending out copies to people in giveaways, keeping my social media updated, keeping my website up. I've branded myself in a certain niche, and I'm confident in my writing and my ability to story-tell that one day I may write a book that gets a lot more attention, which will get people reading my other books (when I publish more).
My debut book was the hardest, and my second book has been easier. The third book will be easier as well as I learn. It is a long-term game.
Alexa I have confidence you can get that tv/movie contract, I think it's more about the trends and what's available to satisfy that niche. Thanks for another great video, love em! I'm on week 2 awaiting response from 2 agents, wish me luck!
Hey I’m also waiting on agents. Watching Alexa is keeping me sane while I wait! Very very best luck to you!
@@ruthanne6729 good luck hun!
i have a question if I'm traditionally publishing my books do I find endorsements before sending my work to the publishers or they do that for me
I'm a traditionally-published picture book author with a day job as a VP at a movie studio, and I identify with this 100%. I grew up in a low-income immigrant family, and so a steady paycheck and stable finances are beautiful things to me. When friends ask me when I'm going to start writing full-time, I just chuckle (and this is despite the fact that I got one of my books optioned by a major studio for a nice chunk of change -- nope, still ain't gonna quit the wonderful day job!). Thanks for your refreshing honesty!
Solidarity high five! Also now I'm like *eyes emoji* if we work for the same studio haha. Though I'm nowhere fancy--I'm on the distribution side of things XD
@@AlexaDonne High five right back at ya! I work at the home of Spider-Man ;) And I'm on the distribution side, too. The production/theatrical side is way too hectic (and perhaps too sexy) for me!
@@helenakurhee407 OMG twins! That's exactly why I like distribution too! The "sexy" jobs have more competition, shittier pay (entry level), and expect more overtime/taking work home with you. I love the work/life balance I have--I rarely if EVER have to work "off the clock." We should meet up sometime for coffee or drinks and talk shop! I'm at a place that really likes dinos lollllll.
@@AlexaDonne Haha, I am SO with you! I like how working on the distribution side is much like being a corporate cog anywhere -- do your work, go home (or WFH), repeat. Premieres, galas, schmoozefests = no thanks. I like preserving my energy/brain space for my personal creative projects. Would love to meet up! After the July 4th holiday would be good due to travel, etc. I'll be in touch. We'll do some real talk :)
Sorry this is weird but I just googled you and it’s crazy who you can find in TH-cam comments 😂
This is exactly the thing I can't decide on, so this video is perfect!
Alexa, you are a unicorn. You are published by Random House--I would bet it's easy to forget how rare that is given the circles you move in!
It's like being a professor. Everyone around you has a PhD, so it doesn't always feel like the achievement it is.
Anyhow, you're an awesome author and an awesome person. Thank you for sharing all these thoughts!
I feel so excited and happy every time I see you, Alexa!!!
Your authenticity is extremely refreshing, and I couldn’t imagine you not breaking out in the future with your mentality.
Hihi, your comment about America made me giggle 🤭 I am from Germany, but there are pros and cons when it comes to book money:
1) the German book market is huge, but it can’t compare to the English book market. No way.
2) Movie rights? Ha ha ha. Even IF (and that’s an even bigger if then in the US) they sell, it’s probably gonna be a bad tv movie and won’t make you rich.
3) Our health insurance is covered by the „Künstersozialkasse“, a health insurance specifically for artists and writers. And it isn’t expensive either, since it’s income based. 😊😊
I'm in the UK and worked out I need 14,000 Euros a year. We're so lucky not having to worry over healthcare. I usually stick £200 aside a year to cover dentist/new glasses ect.
@@r.brooks5287 14.000€ a year, that’s a tight budget. But if it enables you working on your dream that would be nice 😊😊
I really appreciate your candid conversations! It's really important to have smart, achievable goals along with the pie in the sky dreams!
I love how frank and genuine this discussion was. I've been writing for ten years, but only at the very start of my writing career. I just finished my first manuscript and quit my job to continue writing full-time. Luckily, I have a supportive partner to make that possible and currently no commitments to a mortgage or kids. I'm giving it a red hot go before other responsibilities take priority. So any income in the near future, no matter how little, is going to be significant 😊
I love your sense of humor and I love how you've given some benefits to both sides.
Excellent info, as always, Alexa! Thanks so much for your insight!
Thanks for making this video! I think I've been seeing similar tiktoks and having a lot of those framing thoughts, too.
Thank you for making this video. My therapist has been challenging me to reframe my metrics after all the healing I've done with my past- and I think I'm starting to identify all the ways I may need to do that. So thank you.
I like the idea of being a hybrid author and enjoying the pros of both trad and indie publishing. I’ve heard from hybrid authors that they make more from trad but more frequent income from indie. I just don’t know if I can be prolific enough to do indie 😅
Yes, that makes sense is the reason I've seen a lot of savvy trad people go hybrid. Long term, it can be super smart for an author to do. I, too, just wish I wrote fast enough to be good at indie!!! I have a few ideas I think would KILL in indie romance, but I know I don't have the bandwidth/skill to write them quickly on top of my trad books. Some day.
@@AlexaDonne This is the main reason I want to quit my job... because I want to publish indie, but as you put it, I don't have the "bandwidth" to generate that kind of volume if my energy is being siphoned off by my job. I don't think that's the work dynamic that everyone has--but for me, it seems to be a tradeoff, with a limited amount of energy that has to be parceled out for one thing or the other. I'm a teacher. I get breaks in the summer and winter--but it takes time for me to switch gears and really start writing, so I don't produce as much as I want to--and during the semester, it just doesn't happen.
I always for traditional publishing, I think it has a charm in it! And I have a feeling you are going to skyrocket in your career soon. Please make videos again about writing (how to nicely write and so, we love those videos) ❤️
Yay!! New video :). Can't wait to watch this one.
Hey Alexa, I've watched dozens of your videos, and I've hit the like button, but I've not left a comment until now. I LOVE your channel. You strike a delicate balance between great content, tough love, vulnerability, and humor. I know that I'm a better writer because of your channel. Thank you so much for sharing with us. :-D
Alexa, I agree with you, even as an indie author. I have a very successful career as my day job and my writing is a passion-based side hustle. That's not to diminish my writing in any way, it just so happens making other people money makes me more money than all my artistic endeavors combined... multiplied by like 100 lifetimes. It's sad writing and creating art can't make a lot of money, or even enough just to live off of, but it's always been this way. I keep telling my editor, "I'll be famous and adored as a writer after I'm dead, just like all the greats." 😂😭😂😭 #EstatePlanningWisely
New AuthorTuber binging your content here. Love how straightforward you are.x
This was quite insightful, thanks Alexa! Also, your eye make-up is on point! ✨✨
I love watching you. I totally enjoyed this. Trying the traditional publishing. Not working yet but still trying.
Hi Alexa - have just discovered your channel and you have made me laugh this morning. Love your style and your candid advice on all things writing/publishing. Very interesting listening to what you have to say. Thanks a lot and I have my fingers crossed you get your “if, then!”
I was so excited for this video and I loved it! I honestly hadn't thought about it from this perspective and I'm so glad you shared! I think your videos have helped me come to realize I'll probably keep my day job for a long time, at least part time even if I start doing well!
1. I could 100% see The Ivies as a movie or series. It's got all the elements.
2. If someone really wanted to make a living from writing, there are tons of options other than being a fiction author. For example, I'm a copywriter for a marketing agency and it's a great job.
One caveat: it's really hard to come home and work on your own projects after churning out copy for 8+ hours.
On the other hand, I worked for a large tech distributor for years (until the 2009 Recession 😬) and knew a ton of people there who were local musicians, actors, and artists. I'm in a small city where you can't make a living locally in the arts. A "big break" would require relocation. I liked to think of them as acting as their own "Patron of the Arts."
Love this. It's so true, and an important discussion. For me, at this point, another contract would feel like success because the first seems like a lucky fluke. 😬
I think the shift here is between people who want to write and be published, and people who want to publishing in order to make money. The first ones went into writing with the aim of finishing one book , and then hopefully to be published. The second one went into writing already with the idea of making money out of it.
As you said though, they don't have to be mutually exclusive!
Personally, when I'll write a book I think I'll go the traditional way, especially considering that if I were to write in my native language, which is Italian, it would make much more sense for me. I don't know about the US, but in Italy self-publishing doesn't have the best reputation, and as a former bookstore owner for 10 years, I can totally understand why: books with tons of grammatical mistakes, typos, lack of editing to the point of chaos in the verb tenses, and let's not talk about covers, layout, fonts and the like!
Then, of course, there are exceptions, I only speak for what I've seen with the Italian self-publishing system.
i wish you all the success with your pie in the sky. i would love to see that happen😊 and enjoy the extra content we'd get from you as a bonus hehe. im actually planning on purchasing a book of yours as soon as i get down to research which one of them i should read first, and or which is the least thrillerly one, or maybe someone out here would tell me and recommend lol (cause ive never rlly read thriller before and wanna be cautious about trying a new genre)
It’s fascinating how much personal circumstance and lifestyle come into the money equation. My husband and I make basically minimum wage but we’re self-employed, working from home on creative endeavours that make us happy, so we don’t mind living simply. What I’d need to make from books is definitely less than most people as a result. It helps that I’m Canadian (government health care) and living in a small town, so we don’t need as much to get by. The unpredictability and infrequency of trad pub payments is the main thing that would encourage me to hold on to secondary income, at least till I felt well-established.
Health care is such a huge thing and the whole American system sucks! It's one of the main things tying me to my day job, especially as I get older. (I'm fortunately set for retirement due to a weird set of circumstances)
Thank you for doing these videos!!! Very helpful.
Very informative.
I’m currently writing a story, horror, and I had some questions.
I watched a couple videos which answered the ones that I had on certain topics.
Thank you so much for talking about this. I've been thinking a lot about what success means to me. Lindsey Puckett- which I found because of your loveliness- talked about doing dreams and then goals to those dreams to help define her success and I tried that. It was wonderful advice. But I so greatly appreciate your insight too. I think we would be great friends if we ever met in person!
Thanks for this, Alexa! So incredibly lucky that I love my day job! Much as I love writing, I'd never want to do it full-time. I just want to finish and publish a book, that's it! (Hopefully more than one!)
I love your mindset so much, Alexa (I also adore your eye shadow). I really want traditional publishing for my "big" novels, though lately I've considered self-publishing shorter novellas under a pen name. If I get even a modest amount of success, I think it'll help bolster my confidence and even provide "proof" to an agent or publisher that yes, I am marketable. Also, I feel like short books may have a better niche with self-publishing than traditional publishers. Unless you're a more successful author and an anthology of short stories is something that a trad publisher would be willing to do.
In the meantime, I'm going to go look up your other videos on self-publishing and see if that can be a good short term solution while I finish up the big novels and do my querying. Thank you so much, Alexa. I hope you're doing well :)
Though listening to your video on refraining from self-publishing if you are going to eventually traditional publish, I wonder if you have the same opinion if you'll be publishing different types of books under different names? For example, will a traditional publisher care if I previously self-published short stories under a different name.
I know you're a busy gal and I don't expect a response, so thank you again for all of your lovely videos!
Thank you. This really helped me.
"If the Ivies becomes a TV show" I would *kill* (pun intended? maybe) to see one. I hope it happens for you some day!
I totally understand this mindset and this reframing. And I totally think it's sad that the creators and innovators that support an entire industry have to make these concessions and mindshifts. The way traditional publishing is set up sucks for everyone but the very highest corporate folks. I wonder if someday a publishing company will realize if they get a clue, move out of New York and pay their authors and editors, that they would have the supreme advantage over every other publisher. Because everyone would want to work there and everyone would want to publish with them. It would be the best business move possible even from a corporate perspective and it's just sitting there unclaimed.
🤣
It wasn't always this way all that long ago, though, and as authors, we basically did it to ourselves by thinking it's okay to write "for the love of the art".
I am so lucky to have a husband with a decent job, which makes my full time role 'home schooling mother'. This makes it hard to get the writing done, and I am itching for it to be 'full time' but I'm slowly edging up to making a decent amount from writing/writing related things. In the next few years I definitely want to shift that balance to earning more income from my book sales than I do from writing related things.
Thank you, as always, for your clarity and transparency about the publishing life :)
Great video. Really puts things into perspective.
I watched this for what you said, but I can’t not stare at how fire your eyeshadow is 😦
I'm so surprised to hear your perspective, given that you know how to grow your own audience and have contact with them completely apart from a publisher. I was offered a traditional deal that sucked. For me, the solution to the health insurance / sole source of income situation is to make more money. (My TH-cam channel already supports me.) Would you consider testing indie for a book or 2 to see if you can outperform your publisher in marketing?
I'm just not interested at this time. I'm a slow writer, and all my immediate ideas are better suited to trad, who are paying me adequately while handling all the work I'm not interested in doing (editing, proofreading, page setting, printing, distribution). I just got a raise at work--a significant one, so I'm happy to continue juggling things as I am. I've finally got the perfect equilibrium that suits my needs. It might be different if my advances sucked, but they don't, and I really love my editor at Random House--she continues to make me a better and better writer, and I don't want to halt that momentum. Just what's working for me personally!
Totally off topic, but I love your eyeshadow! What palette did you use? Looks like it could've come from the ND pastel palette?
It's a combination of Lethal Cosmetics and the Laura Lee Candy Skies palette! Candy Skies E Bug in the crease, Lethal Wisteria outer corner, Lethal Void on my inner corner, a tick of Candy Skies Pistachio tapped on top of that toward the middle, and then a tick of Lethal Incarnate in the middle! Then I did some Cobalt blue Sephora liner in my waterline and smudged Wisteria and Void underneath. Lethal is a brand from Germany but I've fallen in LOVE with their duochromes, just splurged on my first multichromes from them, and Wisteria is one of the BEST matte purples I have ever tried (and E Bug is my other favorite). What I'm loving about Lethal is it's build-your-own-palette and so far everything I've gotten has been top quality. The only other time I tried a brand like that I didn't like it at all (Makeup Geek). But this is worth $$$. I also LOVE their highlighters--I'm wearing that in this video as well!
The hunger for the next PLL is rising, and I think The Ivies has great potential to fill that want. So it may not be as far-off as you think. I also think teens are super duper over the Riverdale-fication of all teen media and the Ivies has the book, but is grounded. And PDQ definitely has the vibe I think the teen television market is starting to hunger for!
I'm not sure which I'll go. All I want is to make a living wage and have my own tv show. With indie, you have more control, but you have to either do everything yourself, or pay people to do it for you out of pocket. With trad, the experts are paid by taking cuts from your book's earnings.
Great video Alexa! This is a topic I absolutely thirst after lol. 😆
I do have a question for anyone who may be able to answer: Is $25-40k annually possible in trad pub (midlist or otherwise) or is even that a relatively rare occurrence?
Yes, it's possible but only if you manage to establish a steady career, ie: selling books consistently past your first book deal, if those advances are decent. Also possible/helped if you can earn out at least one book and start making royalties. Meaning: if you can sell approximately a book a year for 50-75K advance, paid in no more than 4 payments (3 is better), where you are never late turning in books (so you're paid "on time"), and you budget well? Yes. You can also pick up some IP/packaged jobs on the side to fluff that income b/c they're often paid upfront/flat rate (so you can make a "quick" 15-20K on a write for hire). This is why I encourage authors who get splashy debut deals to wait to make big decisions until their debut comes out/they see what the reality is for them, re: that next book deal. Things can shift in year 2/3 after your deal either for better or for worse. I've seen too many authors hit a wall on year 3/book deal #2 (3rd book) to ever be secure to advise job-quitting too early.
@@AlexaDonne Same question but...would this be possible in commercial fiction? Say, Harlequin? Obviously, advances for those are so much lower for starters.
@@halfamo2422 My above answer was in regard to commercial fiction... 50-75k is considered an above average but attainable advance for commercial fiction. If you're niche or with a low-balling publisher, no you wont' be able to make a living off 15K advances, for example. You might squeak by if you're savvy with 35K advances, another very common advance level for midlist commercial titles. AFAIK, Big 5 adult romance (trade) doesn't pay that low? They pay down-the-middle standard advances (and some very big ones to some authors). I don't know anyone in the mass market paperback arena, however, and can't speak to that.
Don’t forget to calculate in your agent’s standard 15% commission subtracted from your advance and subsequent royalties. Most traditional publishers want you to be agented because they only accept submissions from agents.
@@AlexaDonne Thank you so much for your detailed response! Fortunately, I do have a partner; unfortunately he’s a schoolteacher, so not the greatest salary in the world 😅 and I’d be looking to supplement his income since I’m chronically ill and unable to work or collect disability.
Thank you again for your fabulous video and reply!
Very interesting and enlightening. Thank you
19:40 No shade for sticking to your job, but this is my plan--move somewhere cheap. Find the most inexpensive set-up so that I have less to earn in order to support myself. Everybody is talking $50 thousand as the benchmark of how much one needs to support oneself, but I think I could swing it on $15--not in LA, of course.
Yeah if I didn't work in the TV industry I would live elsewhere, though honestly I've never not lived in a major coastal city so I've accepted I'll simply always spend an assload of my income on rent and be frugal everywhere else (which is what I do now--I'm very cheap about a lot of things!). Though man a cheaper city would be GREAT. A smaller one even--I love smaller cities!
Any chance you'd do a taxes video?? 😅 Been thinking about numerous jobs where I'd be my own boss but the tax aspect scares the life out of me
Love the advice a bit of a bomber that it’s so hard to quit day job I was hopping that would be fairly doable for expert writers. Oh well guess I’ll have to be extra savy and be nice to my boss for a while longer.
P.s I have 5 chapters left to complete 1st draft of 1st fantasy novel and you was one of those I took advice from
I ADORE YOUR CONTECT!
Love this. I am traditionally published (though started mostly doing short articles and short fiction until more recent years). Bottom line, don't quit your day job. 😉
Wonderful video that really really helps, thank you oxoxoxo
I feel like most authors teach at the college level. Some started before they got their break out novel published (like Carmen Machado) and some after ( Neil Gaiman). Which is interesting because teaching can also be an unstable environment
Great video
Traditional publishing is a dream, and the advance system is just a cherry on top. Thank you for this video, Alexa.
Could you give some tips for submitting to small publishing houses that don't require an agent? How is the process different? Submission letter? Do we need professionally edited manuscript? With no advocate (agent) how will the advance system vary? Is it okay to work with such publishing houses who don't require agents, is it safe?
Thank you :)
Thanks for this video.
My goal is just to write a book a year and self publish. My other goal is not to lose too much money self publishing. That's it. it would be great if I had some readers but I'm writing for myself, so those two goals are good enough for me.
I come from a similar background and totally agree. Also, I’m getting into writing in my 40s and prefer short stories (lol clearly not gunning for tons of full time cash from creativity).
Just bought your book! So looking forward to it!!
I so wish I had one of those partners doing everything…
Can you do an eyeshadow tutorial? Your makeup is always amazing!!! 🥰
The "thing" I want out of my eventual trad pub career is wide distribution and influence. As many Black people reading my books as possible. I am fortunate to have a day job with good compensation and benefits. Fully remote, great coworkers, and flexibility. In the midst of the perpetual "self vs trad publishing" conversation, it's easy to forget that not every author wants to write full time. Writers are not split into categories of "full time writer" or "writer who wishes they were full time." Many of us happily have other careers and/or own businesses.
I am at peace with my decision to pursue traditional publishing. Could I make more money in self publishing? Maybe -- and that's a strong maybe. But I'd also have to do a bunch of other stuff I don't really want instead of focusing on the part I like: writing.
I quite liked this video. The thought that you're a successful author only if you millions of people read your book is kinda infecting a lot of authors early on in their journey. It is actually required to reframe that and analyse what is our success vision. For example, I think I feel the most joy in the process of writing than when I'm getting reader feedback. So, for me being able to write something that makes me happy would be a pretty big success. Now, it might change after a few years, LOL. But till then, we can stop stressing. 😂
I would just want people to read what I've written and experience my imagination. I've always had a very good imagination but I've never been able to share any of these stories in my head. It would be nice to earn something too but I think that's not the most important part of writing. A writer from my area told me about a group she belongs to that only has writers from the area and gave me advice to join once I publish my first book. Her most important advice was to keep writing even if you don't end up publishing.
Ironically, I feel like trad publishing is the better option for writers who bend and blend genres. Many of the successful indies discuss how they always “hit the tropes” of a hot genre.
I really want to be an author but have been prioritizing stuff like health and graduating/studying over the last couple of years. And would want to be an author for fun, because I love storytelling and reading. I've enjoyed writing since I was good enough at Dutch to put down stories. My father installed a love for stories, he used to make them up for us during vacations on the spot (and sometimes at home too, depending on my age and also other circumstances).
But honestly I just want a stable part-time job to support myself with (or another stable income that supports my life) and do writing at the side even if I could live off of writing. Creative endeavors can be unstable and volatile and for me it just seems like a bad idea to depend on creativity for my income. Obviously writing books isn't just creative but you need the ideas and inspiration. I've quite a bit written down in a notebook. Both book ideas and basic plotting for stories. But you never know when it'll block or when your situation (health or otherwise) won't allow for creativity. Personally my creativity can go down quick if I'm overstimulated and it's especially noticeable when it happens for longer periods of time. Autism is no joke although there are a decent amount of ways to deal with it and work with not against your brain. It definitely is a disability at times.
I'd just prefer stability with supplemental income.
I think my success measures would be more in the vein of:
- publishing my first book (or a first book in a genre). It honestly feels like a success for me to fully complete something. I've had to break off things because of autism several times. This includes university education. It's really bad for your confidence if you get rejected for basic internships for years straight. But now I know I will get out of it and have a way better view of what I want.
- publishing a set number of books in a genre (or just being able to sell them. I've got a feeling that regular romance will probably sell somewhere. It's the most sold genre after all and I've got some ideas).
- Just being able to tell people I got to publish a book. Luckily my friends and family are supportive in this. One of my aunts works as a translator for a publisher so I know that'll be fine.
I just like your view on this. And I keep wondering if I wanna self pub or not. I like having control over as many components as possible, but on the other hand when I look at my goals and current success measures it might be wise to at least strongly consider trad pub. What do you think (just curious, it most likely won't influence my decision for many reasons)?
I feel like if trad pub doesn't like my manuscripts and gives the reasons (which they probably don't always do) I might then consider self pubbing after some more editing. But self pubbing is expensive in upfront cost and I'd be just fine with advance money if it's just a side hustle for fun, you know.
Ah well, if it ever comes to it, we'll see if I look for an agent or go indie. Or maybe hybrid depending on the book. I'm already planning on using a pseudonym anyway so creating one for trad and one for indie publishing wouldn't be much of a big deal. Is it true that traditional publishers don't like it when you also self publish or is it more than it can negatively impact the chances you sell books because they can see the sales of your indie books?
A couple of questions about using Query Tracker and also about agencies/agents.
I'm in the UK, does QT feature UK agents and publishers or is it focused only/mainly on the USA.
A second question is, how can I distinguish between good, well connected and organized, energetic and pro-active agencies/agents . . . and agencies/agents who just take on clients and send out your book to publishers but aren't that dynamic in fighting for you (I just assume there are the two types).
can you ever end up owing the publisher money? if for example, you get an advance but your book doesn’t sell.
Could you make a video about what contracts with agents should be like? What’s… normal?
Back at 2013, my "If...then" in the past was publish a book, get a movie deal, and live a good life. Now at 2022 (and now knowledgeable about the craft and the industry), my "If...then" became publish a book, keep my day job, and probably still keep my day job even when hitting New York Times 🤣 In fairness, US dollar is a big currency when converted to my country's currency so unless I get a movie or TV deal and it succeeds (on top of producing more books), I guess that's the only time I can quit my day job.
Also, I never thought much about royalty rates. Yeah it's there and it's a nice feeling if you do get them, but one has to assume IF you can earn your advance. What if your advance is mega huge because of, say for an example, you got an auction? Auctions are great because it makes you feel wanted, but ya'll have to consider if the advance they're giving might be good for you in the long run. Remember, relatively few books earn out so while it's okay for you to be excited, you have to consider some realistic scenarios, too.
Can you please tell us what lawsuit the royalty statement was in? Was it the kidney letter lawsuit?
This might be a dumb question, but I honestly don't know the answer. Don't you have to pay back advances if you don't earn them out? I had a friend who published with a certain popular romance publisher in the early 2000s, and there was a clause that said if they didn't earn the advance in 5 years they had to pay it back. Is that still a thing? Or is this something you negotiate out of your contract?
Thank you for this practical info on money and publishing. Do you know of anyone with a similar channel who talks about money and playwriting?
An ivies movie or tv show would be doopppeeee
If someone gets a big amount for their first deal, then maybe the book doesn’t do as well as expected, don’t advances go down for subsequent deals? That kills any career possibility I think. That sucks!
I’m starting to think a moderate first deal that the publisher makes their money back on is best for long term careers
Can you give a very brief explanation of what it means to "earn out"? Thank you!
Alexa, is this you in this reply? I smell a scam winner....
New to this channel. What is indie publishing?
I have a question if I'm traditionally publishing my books do I find endorsements before sending my work to the publishers or they do that for me
I might try to get an agent, but I'm leaning more toward indie after Amanda Hockings story on her blog.
As someone who had Sony option the rights for my debut novel (THE LAST SHE) I wanted to add that there is a HUGE difference from being optioned to actually getting a t.v. show or movie made for your book. While I'm so thankful my book was optioned, and it's a dream come true, it's not even close to "quit your job" money. It's more like a nice yearly payment that helps by some new writing equipment, or a writer retreat ;) Also, most options never get made into television/film (so when you ask people who get optioned when there movie is coming, usually the answer is never). I assume that the big money comes when you get into film/tv, but even so, I wish there was more transparency on things like that (even though I'm adding to it by not sharing--I'm afraid I'll get in trouble somehow!). I was thinking of author Beth Reekles, who wrote The Kissing Booth, and had several successful Netflix movies made of them. I believe she didn't go full time for several years after the movies came out. I think she also worked a full time job, and like the security.
Anyways, I really liked Alexa's comments and viewpoint in this video (I always do!). I think it's a good viewpoint to remember that being successful in writing doesn't mean you're making enough money to be a full-time writer. We can define success however we'd like
I don't want to be reduced to a brand... so I have no clue what to do really. I'll probably go for a mix but I don't know which books to trad pub and which to indie.
I would love to know if having 1.4 million followers on tiktok would help me or hurt me in the trad publishing industry?
That's an amazing platform! Congrats. Any platform is good and can help a query, though imo unless you can prove a correlation of those followers/views to sales I don't think it would be a sure-thing (ie: it's rare for a social media following to guarantee a book deal!). But it would very likely, at this point in time, to get you extra notice/eyes from agents and in turn publishers, given how in-demand a TikTok platform is. So it may very well increase your odds/cut down your "wait time" in the trenches. I would absolutely front load it in your bio!
Love the thumbnail
It’s always the 80/20 rule.
20 percent is a publishers authors make 80 percent of their profits
I've just started my research on (trad) advance numbers, most things seem to say 10k for 1st time authors but I read some are as low as 1k... that would only be like 3 dollars an hour, with no tips 😅 would a publisher actually only offer 1k?
A VERY small one. I've not seen any major or Big 5 publisher offer less than 10K in a long long time. Some do 12 or 15K but those are the lowball outliers. 20K is far more common on the lower end, but 35K is a relatively common sweet spot advance for many authors/genres from major and Big 5 pubs. Lots of people I know get 50K per book.
@@AlexaDonne thanks for that insight! It definitely gives me a better perspective than what Google did 🤗❤
Yes, I've seen reports from Australian and Canadian micro / small publishers, some even having no advance. A good way to discover author's advances is by looking at surveys done by universities. You won't find individual ones, but clusters, which can help with info.
You are a writer. The amount of money you make doesn't mean you're not a writer. It's not money for me, but it's control. I've been small pressed published without an advance for years. Most of my books are out of print. My last self-published ebooks were experiments after I pulled the series from the publisher. I know you didn't speak about piracy. But I realize that is an illusion because my free eBooks have already been pirated. I am thinking of KU, or maybe traditional small press. My goal is to find readers and give my husband a few gifts.
Thank you! Do you make more from TH-cam or your books?
Just seeing this but, no--I make more from my books than I do from TH-cam.
Thanks for the video Alexa!! I was wondering from your experience in trad pub how likely is it for someone to get signed with a book that has series potential and be able to retain rights to self publish after if the series is not continued by the publisher?
We do ourselves a disservice by being okay with not getting paid. By being okay with it, we literally lower our value in the marketplace when we do get those good opportunities we work so hard to obtain. I'm not okay with not being paid for my efforts. Under my real name, I went to uni for journalism (and had the loans to prove it), honed my craft, and ended up moving away from writing and into a profession that pays well and uses my writing as a skill that's not the main part of the job. This sounds harsh, but I don't write for free unless the result will truly promote something I'm doing, and I wish other aspiring professional writers would adapt that mindset. There's nothing wrong with being a hobbyist writer if someone doesn't want to go pro. If that's the case, though, I wish the hobbyists would be honest with themselves about that, get out of the way by not going for professional writing opportunities, and stop lowering our market value.
There are tons of writers getting paid well above market value. It's not like there aren't thousands of people pursuing degrees in the literary sphere each year; soaring above the mass isn't a question of whether others are 'undervaluing' themselves, but rather if a writer possesses the right skillset to advertise themselves in the deluge of talents available. I've witnessed the freelancing pages of a lot of degree-holders who complained of low opportunities; no hook was to be seen, rates could be easily negotiated, and portfolios showed no versatility.
Besides, a client seeking low rates could just as easily find cheap, English-proficient writers overseas.
someone pls share that lawsuit with me so i can see the royalty statements lol. which lawsuit?
Can you please answer this question, I am really struggling to find an answer to this. Does a novel have to have a set story unfolding from the beginning to the end or it could be episodic as in chapters have their stories that begin and end in the chapter while some continuing throughout the book (relationships, values,....). Because i have heard the book has to have some hard plot from the first word to the last
Best example i could find is the show Mad Men (hope you have seen it and can use it as a reference)