So both of these epoxies are very good for making knives. These test put this epoxy though more forces then they would have sustained on a knife, especially a knife with corby fasteners or loveless fasteners. With that being said, what epoxy(s) do you use and why? 🙌
I’m a newbie and hobbyists woodworker and metalworker. And I have an engineering degree. So, I’m going to buy Rogue for the better metal to metal because there a plenty of times where I don’t want to bust out the welding gear and I don’t need the full strength of fusing the metals. And, while Rogue wasn’t the winner for metal to wood, it does better than the junk I get at the big box stores. And finally, I applaud the science in the testing even if it was with “Rudimental” test gear - ft pounds is foot pounds. Great job IMO. Cheers!
I wish you would be able to test the strength of 3M 08115 epoxy, but it’s just not cost effective for knife makers. I work in the collision repair industry, and 08115 is a panel-bond, and is used on cars in some areas as a replacement for welding. The shear strength is amazing and it has micro-sized glass beads within the epoxy, which prevents ‘over clamping.’ There’s two issues with knife makers and epoxies: (1) Over clamping and squeezing out all your epoxy (2) The lack of mechanical adhesion. Meaning knife makers are finishing their knives to too fine a grit under the scales. 80G -120G finish under scales will give the epoxy way more bite (mechanical adhesion) than finishing it to 400G and higher like the rest of the knife. I mean if you are NOT making removable scales anyway, what do you care what it looks like underneath?
Bro… is there anything you can’t do?! You are amazing. I’ve been watching you for awhile and I’m always impressed with you and your videos. You are the reason I finally got started making knives!
I haven't used GFlex yet, but I started off using the fast-cure JB Weld single use kits and probably made 10-12 knives using that epoxy early on. Two years later, those knives are still holding together well with every day use. But the more I have learned and know now, I am not super confident those knives will hold together as long as I hope they will. I have been using Combat Rogue Slow Cure for a year of so now, and I feel like it is the highest quality epoxy I can afford. I love it, I can't imagine ever going back to a lesser epoxy. Been using the same 4oz bottle, it really is worth the money. The epoxy is the proverbial wheels of the car (of the knife), if the wheels give out, the car is no longer a car.
It sounds like either epoxy will work, but no reason to change from G-flex for sure. I really like the way G-Flex bonded some of the micarta to metal so the micarta broke rather than epoxy bond. Good stuff, and your test looks very valid. Of course, any serious tests requires anywhere from 3 to 5 samples of each test to see what the spread is. That's my ONLY issue with the test, only one one sample tested. Good work.
Thanks Ken, I feel you on the samples. Probably wouldn't hurt to repeat some of this testing. I'll likely stick with the G-Flex for handle scales and use the Rogue when attaching bolsters. Thanks for your comment, sir!
Good testing, thanks for taking the time...I have got also experience with G-Flex, and although it is used as a multi purpose adhesive it is actually more suitable for bonding difficult woods...for knifemaking I have got excellent results with Loctite E-120HP. It exceeds in all aspects as impact, peeling, solvents, and high temperatures...it is not cheap though...JB weld is also a great choice in my experience for metal to metal bonding...sandblasting metal pieces does help a lot in any of the cases.
@@RedBeardOps If you ever do, you will never come back to G-Flex or any other...some applications for E-120HP include bonding nose cones in aerospace applications...now make your mind...
Well done. I think you pretty much put them through the ringer test wise. Of the 2 times you have done this I actually feel comfortable using any of the glues tested.For the way there used on a knife verses the types of tests you did I think they would all hold up well.
I am very surprised that the spring clamps you used did not squeeze out epoxy to the detriment of the bonding strength. I am a veteran 655 user and I have learned by mistake that the best clamps to use are the ones requiring manual trigger squeezing to just a very light tension. But if the end result is that only a small percentage of epoxy is pushed out of the joint, you are good to go on the efficient use of your epoxy dosing.
I have a completely off topic question. How flat can that DIY surface grinder grind? We talking thousandths or tens of? Good video dude. Maybe could have made sample sets of three to be more convincing, but that produced pretty clear results.
Hey man, this is the video of my SGA build - th-cam.com/video/_Q2aujE3pWk/w-d-xo.html . As far as the accuracy goes; we're talking thousandths not ten-thousandths. I was able to hold around 0.0011'' total variance over a 7.5'' long piece. I'm sure with more patience it can be done better (more, lighter passes). For full tang knife making this is more than adequate. Cheers man. Thanks for watching and inquiring.
One of the strengths of the G-flex is the "flex". Clearly the Rogue sticks very well, but that's not the only consideration. I'd be curious to see how bending a chunk of epoxy alone looks. As well as maybe some sort of test which tries to simulate performance vs. impact vibration, or a strike with bad edge alignment, maybe drop tests onto concrete.
You made a good effort on this comparison and yea... there is room for improvement. Doing testing like this really makes you appreciate how much effort goes into the videos from Project Farm.
Sorry for being so late to the party, J., Just found your channel 2 days ago. Even though I'm not affiliated with any of the adhesives companies, I've been using West Systems( and some other) epoxies for 30 years. It turns out that I was not at all surprised by your results, using the GFlex product; because it is not the top product that West Systems sells for bonding strength. They even mention in their online documentation that the West Systems 105/206(resin/hardener) combination tests out at greater maximum strength because of the flexing built into GFlex, for the purpose of improved on-the-water flexing strength. There are also some tips & tricks that are used in the metal to metal bonding processes, that can significantly improve ultimate bonding strength. The materials science of composite bonding can also include the details concerning the existence of oxidation layers on the surfaces of the parts being bonded, as, for example can occur between aluminum and other metals. Another area of concern comes up when two materials of differing heated expansion rates are epoxied together. I applaud your usage of Corby fasteners, as well as adhesives, to improve the handle strengths of your products.
I guess you didn't 'really' read my note, J. I basically said that G-flex is not the top rated epoxy for knives, as far as West Systems is concerned, you know, the company that makes G-flex also makes 5 other epoxy combinations, the 105 resin and 206 hardner being the top adhesive combination, according to their own ongoing testing.
Another good test. So far all the glues seem upto the task, gflex has a bit more of a lead at the moment for general purpose knifebuilding! Think the only other tests you can do is on a finished knife with an elemental test,..eg...leave it in a river for a few days, put it in a freezer for a day or so, and leave it out in direct sun and weather for a few weeks, but thats at the extreme end of things. Just to see how well the knife would last if you happen to lose it for a bit, then find it a few days or weeks later. Maybe use 1 synthetic scale,liek micarta or g10, then natural wood on the other. Or divide the handle scales in4 parts and have each part from a differnt material, would test the bonds in all ways then, both to eatchother and the handle hang!
@@franotoole2702 LOL, I bet my arm would get tired! You put a knife together with corby fasteners or loveless bolts and either of these epoxies and I bet it would take a lot of hammering! Would be good to find a way to measure the pressure it takes to part the scales from the tang.
@@RedBeardOps it's hard to find gflex in asia. Basically we need to import this product to us. Do you have recommendations for resin epoxy that's available world wide. Thanks
This was cool.. I’ve wondered myself but haven’t wanted to try getting the combat epoxy just because I’ve been happy with gflex but seeing this I think it looks like a pretty good alternative. I would like to know if it holds up against heat any better then gflex. Great vid!
I think any modern epoxy works well I made some knives thirty plus years ago and they still hold up it was Devcon that was the only one you could find back then.
You should do another video like this with the new blade pro epoxy... In my limited testing it seems better than g/flex although my bottle of g/flex is pretty old
Lol, sorry to hear that sir. It's some good stuff. I talked with the guys over there a good bit before my order since I was trying out some 3'' belts for my surface grinder. Said I was interested in their epoxy and they were kind enough to put some in my order. Seem like really good people over there.
So both of these epoxies are very good for making knives. These test put this epoxy though more forces then they would have sustained on a knife, especially a knife with corby fasteners or loveless fasteners. With that being said, what epoxy(s) do you use and why? 🙌
Just using BSI 30 minute for now until i use all of it. Next i would like to try the Rogue. Good video btw, love the creative testing approach lol.
@@blakeparthenay3049 Thank you sir!
I’m a newbie and hobbyists woodworker and metalworker. And I have an engineering degree. So, I’m going to buy Rogue for the better metal to metal because there a plenty of times where I don’t want to bust out the welding gear and I don’t need the full strength of fusing the metals. And, while Rogue wasn’t the winner for metal to wood, it does better than the junk I get at the big box stores. And finally, I applaud the science in the testing even if it was with “Rudimental” test gear - ft pounds is foot pounds. Great job IMO. Cheers!
PS - that surface grinder is awesome and now I reallllly want to make one!
@@foomanchewthis Hey Gary, thanks for your comment! Cheers man. Glad you enjoyed this one.
I wish you would be able to test the strength of 3M 08115 epoxy, but it’s just not cost effective for knife makers. I work in the collision repair industry, and 08115 is a panel-bond, and is used on cars in some areas as a replacement for welding. The shear strength is amazing and it has micro-sized glass beads within the epoxy, which prevents ‘over clamping.’
There’s two issues with knife makers and epoxies:
(1) Over clamping and squeezing out all your epoxy
(2) The lack of mechanical adhesion. Meaning knife makers are finishing their knives to too fine a grit under the scales. 80G -120G finish under scales will give the epoxy way more bite (mechanical adhesion) than finishing it to 400G and higher like the rest of the knife. I mean if you are NOT making removable scales anyway, what do you care what it looks like underneath?
Heck yeah, good points sir! I agree on both your points! Thanks for taking the time to give this comment up and watching the vid.
Bro… is there anything you can’t do?! You are amazing. I’ve been watching you for awhile and I’m always impressed with you and your videos. You are the reason I finally got started making knives!
Thank you so much 😀! Glad you're in the knifemaking game... it's a heck of a fun craft! Cheers my friend.
I haven't used GFlex yet, but I started off using the fast-cure JB Weld single use kits and probably made 10-12 knives using that epoxy early on. Two years later, those knives are still holding together well with every day use. But the more I have learned and know now, I am not super confident those knives will hold together as long as I hope they will. I have been using Combat Rogue Slow Cure for a year of so now, and I feel like it is the highest quality epoxy I can afford. I love it, I can't imagine ever going back to a lesser epoxy. Been using the same 4oz bottle, it really is worth the money. The epoxy is the proverbial wheels of the car (of the knife), if the wheels give out, the car is no longer a car.
It sounds like either epoxy will work, but no reason to change from G-flex for sure. I really like the way G-Flex bonded some of the micarta to metal so the micarta broke rather than epoxy bond.
Good stuff, and your test looks very valid. Of course, any serious tests requires anywhere from 3 to 5 samples of each test to see what the spread is. That's my ONLY issue with the test, only one one sample tested.
Good work.
Thanks Ken, I feel you on the samples. Probably wouldn't hurt to repeat some of this testing. I'll likely stick with the G-Flex for handle scales and use the Rogue when attaching bolsters. Thanks for your comment, sir!
Good testing, thanks for taking the time...I have got also experience with G-Flex, and although it is used as a multi purpose adhesive it is actually more suitable for bonding difficult woods...for knifemaking I have got excellent results with Loctite E-120HP. It exceeds in all aspects as impact, peeling, solvents, and high temperatures...it is not cheap though...JB weld is also a great choice in my experience for metal to metal bonding...sandblasting metal pieces does help a lot in any of the cases.
Thank you, sir, for your comment! I've never tried Loctite E-120HP, but I may need to. I also need a sandblasting cabinet! Thank you.
@@RedBeardOps If you ever do, you will never come back to G-Flex or any other...some applications for E-120HP
include bonding nose cones in aerospace applications...now make your mind...
Well done. I think you pretty much put them through the ringer test wise. Of the 2 times you have done this I actually feel comfortable using any of the glues tested.For the way there used on a knife verses the types of tests you did I think they would all hold up well.
Hey Jim, I think you're 100% right... The forces involved here should be the worst case. Thanks for watching sir!
This seems so close that for me, it would come down to cost.
For sure cost plays in! From cheapest to most expensive I think it goes BSI, G-Flex, Rogue.
I am very surprised that the spring clamps you used did not squeeze out epoxy to the detriment of the bonding strength. I am a veteran 655 user and I have learned by mistake that the best clamps to use are the ones requiring manual trigger squeezing to just a very light tension. But if the end result is that only a small percentage of epoxy is pushed out of the joint, you are good to go on the efficient use of your epoxy dosing.
I have a completely off topic question. How flat can that DIY surface grinder grind? We talking thousandths or tens of?
Good video dude. Maybe could have made sample sets of three to be more convincing, but that produced pretty clear results.
Hey man, this is the video of my SGA build - th-cam.com/video/_Q2aujE3pWk/w-d-xo.html . As far as the accuracy goes; we're talking thousandths not ten-thousandths. I was able to hold around 0.0011'' total variance over a 7.5'' long piece. I'm sure with more patience it can be done better (more, lighter passes). For full tang knife making this is more than adequate. Cheers man. Thanks for watching and inquiring.
One of the strengths of the G-flex is the "flex". Clearly the Rogue sticks very well, but that's not the only consideration.
I'd be curious to see how bending a chunk of epoxy alone looks. As well as maybe some sort of test which tries to simulate performance vs. impact vibration, or a strike with bad edge alignment, maybe drop tests onto concrete.
You made a good effort on this comparison and yea... there is room for improvement. Doing testing like this really makes you appreciate how much effort goes into the videos from Project Farm.
For sure!
Been waiting on this video. Good stuff as always.
Hey Wayne, thanks man. Glad you liked this one. My test weren't perfect, but I think they give you a decent idea of how these two epoxies perform.
Science guy James!! Love it and love to see this type of content intermingled with knife-making videos.
Thanks man! Really glad you like it. It's fun to do some of this stuff for sure!
Sorry for being so late to the party, J., Just found your channel 2 days ago. Even though I'm not affiliated with any of the adhesives companies, I've been using West Systems( and some other) epoxies for 30 years. It turns out that I was not at all surprised by your results, using the GFlex product; because it is not the top product that West Systems sells for bonding strength. They even mention in their online documentation that the West Systems 105/206(resin/hardener) combination tests out at greater maximum strength because of the flexing built into GFlex, for the purpose of improved on-the-water
flexing strength. There are also some tips & tricks that are used in the metal to metal bonding processes, that can significantly improve ultimate bonding strength. The materials science of composite bonding can also include the details concerning the existence of oxidation layers on the surfaces of the parts being bonded, as, for example can occur between aluminum and other metals. Another area of concern comes up when two materials of differing heated expansion rates are epoxied together. I applaud your usage of Corby fasteners, as well as adhesives, to improve the handle strengths of your products.
Thanks for the notes John. I'm a big fan of G-Flex as well.. Guess there is a reason it's the gold standard!
I guess you didn't 'really' read my note, J. I basically said that G-flex is not the top rated epoxy for knives, as far as West Systems is concerned, you know, the company that makes G-flex also makes 5 other epoxy combinations, the 105 resin and 206 hardner being the top adhesive combination, according to their own ongoing testing.
@@frankhelms2083 Well it sure seems to be the standard. I've never had any issues with it for sure!
small salsa cup works grate for mixing glue .
Good to know!
Very good video...
Thank you for sharing and keep up the great work...
Hey Alexander, thanks for the comment man! I'll try my best
Another good test. So far all the glues seem upto the task, gflex has a bit more of a lead at the moment for general purpose knifebuilding! Think the only other tests you can do is on a finished knife with an elemental test,..eg...leave it in a river for a few days, put it in a freezer for a day or so, and leave it out in direct sun and weather for a few weeks, but thats at the extreme end of things. Just to see how well the knife would last if you happen to lose it for a bit, then find it a few days or weeks later. Maybe use 1 synthetic scale,liek micarta or g10, then natural wood on the other. Or divide the handle scales in4 parts and have each part from a differnt material, would test the bonds in all ways then, both to eatchother and the handle hang!
I like this idea! I'd have to think through how to get the scales off... With fasteners and epoxy that would be one heck of a challenge I think! LOL
@@RedBeardOps nah the point would be to see if the scales came off on there own. Then beat the crap out of it with a hammer😂😂😂😂
@@franotoole2702 LOL, I bet my arm would get tired! You put a knife together with corby fasteners or loveless bolts and either of these epoxies and I bet it would take a lot of hammering! Would be good to find a way to measure the pressure it takes to part the scales from the tang.
Been nice to include price.
Hey Robert, I included the links to the products in the description. They fluctuate a little bit, but G-Flex is cheaper most of the time.
Hey Red, I'd love to ask you a question or 2 about your band saw setup. Thanks for the great videos, they've been invaluable.
Hey Kevin, here is my review of the bandsaw - th-cam.com/video/lbh13NJbRzk/w-d-xo.html - Cheers
Hey can you compare gflex with locktite epoxy
Honestly wont' be at the top of my list, but if you do let me know the results!
@@RedBeardOps it's hard to find gflex in asia. Basically we need to import this product to us. Do you have recommendations for resin epoxy that's available world wide. Thanks
This was cool.. I’ve wondered myself but haven’t wanted to try getting the combat epoxy just because I’ve been happy with gflex but seeing this I think it looks like a pretty good alternative. I would like to know if it holds up against heat any better then gflex. Great vid!
That's a good question! I'm not sure on the heat side. I probably should have baked the samples. Thanks for watching!
Gotta clean with acetone and lint free rag to get the full effect imo.
Good points George
I think any modern epoxy works well I made some knives thirty plus years ago and they still hold up it was Devcon that was the only one you could find back then.
Awesome Jim, I agree. Both of these would suffice for making knives for sure. Thanks for your comment.
You should do another video like this with the new blade pro epoxy... In my limited testing it seems better than g/flex although my bottle of g/flex is pretty old
Very interesting. I haven't heard of that one!
@@RedBeardOps it's made by system three
www.bladeforums.com/threads/system-three-blade-pro-epoxy.1762635/
Great job dude!
Thanks man!
Kewel I've been waiting in this one, thanx fellow knife maker , peace
Thank you sir! Glad you liked it!
yooo first one here been waiting for this vid!!!!!
Awesome man! Thanks for watching. You have the distinct title of 1st post!
@@RedBeardOps haha im honored!! love your vids man!! keep up the great work!!!
interesting. i wonder how they each perform with age...
Good question sir! One I don't know the answer to. The G-Flex has a longer track record.
Very nice video.
Thank you sir!
I just got an order from Combat Abrasives and I didn't get any epoxy for free. I got robbed.
Lol, sorry to hear that sir. It's some good stuff. I talked with the guys over there a good bit before my order since I was trying out some 3'' belts for my surface grinder. Said I was interested in their epoxy and they were kind enough to put some in my order. Seem like really good people over there.