Well, something like 6.5% of all humans who were ever born are currently alive. And if the singularity comes soon enough and goes well, the concept of "death" may become irrelevant to many of us. Or, to quote Ray Kurzweil, "live long enough to live forever"...
Idealists often die for their ideals, but not before making a permanent impression upon the world. It is necessary for humanity to abolish war and violence in order to evolve further, and until that occurs, we will suffer from lack of resources, sickness, crime, and drama. Until we take that next step, people will still have heartbreaking divorces and violent mobs to deal with. Until we can fully devote resources to peaceful efforts, rather than even protective war efforts (like having the soldiers and weapons to go to war just to keep others from doing so), we won't be able to cure cancer or AIDS fully, we won't be able to extend lives, and we won't have the ability to feed everyone or house them without destroying the very planet we live on. TLDR: Humans, get a clue, fighting is POINTLESS.
I'm french-canadian and I say we don't get taught squat about native history or culture in school or in the medias and I know it's a lot the same in the rest of Canada. So, where do you get the idea that it's too much?
Nya:weh [Thank You] to Extra Credits for this great episode. I gotta admit; I was very nervous going into this one. Never would I think that Extra Credits would purposefully disrespect a people's history, but our people's history is undervalued even in our home country. However, I was impressed by the candor, accuracy, and respect given to the story of Hiawatha and the Great Peacemaker and Jikonhsaseh.
Thank you back. I was very nervous going into writing this one; I'm aware that this history, when it's told at all, is often distorted by inaccuracy and assumption, and the last thing I wanted to do was add more to that legacy. So I put a lot of effort and a lot of time into reading all the versions of this history I could find and learning all I could about the cultures of each of the Five Nations. I'm sure I still made mistakes, but I am truly glad that the effort shows through. I hope the second and final episode will also live up to this standard! -Soraya
The nature of the oral tradition creating slight variations on the same story makes it totally understandable to hear a slight take on an event. I'm an Oneida person, lived in the First Nations community in my city for nearly 25 years, and I still hear new variations from elders, scholars, and storytellers. The core themes and ideas remain largely the same with each telling, though, and that is what's important.
Does any variation of the story give a reason for the architects of this peace not waiting to turn Tadodaho until all the rest of the tribes had bought in to the Great Law? That is, going to the Seneca (or whoever was left besides the Onondaga) with overtures of peace to consolidate power before approaching Tadodaho with a request that he would dismiss out of hand.
According to an Elder, the reason why Hiawatha came to Tadodaho after recruiting the Oneida with the Peacemaker (who is Mohawk) is because he wanted to bring not only the source of this new Great Law (the Peacemaker) but also one other Nation that had embraced it. Sort of like showing the blueprints and the proof of concept at the same time. Like they said in the video, Hiawatha believed that 2 Nations embracing peace would persuade Tadodaho to at least consider the Great law of Peace.
Whoa whoa. I live in that part of NY and we (barely) learn about the Iroquois (once) in elementary school but we were never told this. Hell, we even have a (shitty outskirt) street called "Hiawatha" but we were never told it was named after someone.
That's because schools in the US usually take their curriculum from California or Texas. Books adopted by those states are usually accepted by all others (or 50/50 of them, there are two states as leaders after all) with few exceptions. So you as a New Yorker would not learn NY history unless you specifically sought it out or used some alternative form of schooling that used an alternative curriculum like homeschooling or some private schools. I feel your pain though, I always thought that Vermont history was a bore where nothing happened until I took a course on it in college. Turns out that your state and mine have quite a storied history. Did you know that at one point Vermont was going to annex a fourth of modern New York and almost all of New Hampshire and was only stopped from going full American Anschluss by a letter from George Washington telling the government of the Vermont Republic that annexing "Greater Vermont" would jeopardize the young nation's application to join the United States. It was quite a change from when New York was sending in troops to suppress angry Connecticut settlers in the Green Mountain area.
Cody Fett Holy shit. I did not knowthat about Vermont and New York. Here's the thing. In fourth grade our Social Studies was centered on the history of NY (I still remember the text books. It was blue and had the words "NEW YORK" around the Statue of Liberty). The fact that we barely learned anything about pre-colonial NY and our relationship with Vermont is really disheartening
I grew up in the Oneida area and had teachers that were part of the Oneida nation. We learned a bit more about history like this as a result. It's awesome to see this history being told.
Bonus episode brought to you by DomiNations! smarturl.it/DOMHistory Your regularly scheduled Gracchi Brothers series on Extra History will continue as normal this Saturday!
+Extra Credits Oh don't worry, virtually every single Extra History series has done that for so many people, stretching all the way back to The Punic Wars. That first epic on Hannibal is what finally made me click that Subscribe button, and your updates are always a high point for me. I only wish I had some spare cash that I could donate to the EH Patreon, so I could help support and contribute.... but alas, rent must be paid and teeth must be fixed T~T
Don't even sweat it. We love our patrons for making EH possible, but we tell them over and over not to pledge beyond what's comfortable for them, and the same applies to you. We're happy that we get to do this and grateful for the love that keeps our morale engines running.
This was a completely different story in my classroom then you said Hiawatha wasn't even there when they told it and they didn't know a thing about wampums before
I have to admit I was very surprised to see this upload, but I'm also extremely grateful to see my local history being shared and given attention by a larger outlet. Thank you very much for sharing this story, E.C.
@@utkarshdubey3435 There's this game that both Gandhi and Hiwatha are in called civilization. And the joke is that for some reason in the game Gandhi is ultra aggressive.
Iroquois society began to collapse when it became devastated by disease. Wars began to be the fought by Iroquois against other groups to acquire people (the mourning war) and more resources and trade routes. The Huron to their North were allied with France but France refused to give arms to Hurons who weren't Christians. The Dutch and English didn't have such a qualm and so the Iroquois became much better armed than their neighbours. So many things happened at once that catapulted the Iroquois to become a massive regional power.
The best estimate I’ve heard for the dating of these events is sometime around 1150. that was arrived at by looking at how many leaders the Haudenosaunee are supposed to have had and working out the average amount of time prestigious public offices held for life (popes, kings, supreme court Judges, etc) typically last. Working back like that you get to somewhere around the mid-12th century
As someone from this region of New York (Onondaga), the story of Hiawatha and the Iroquois is a huge part of our history classes. Love seeing this recognition of the great Iroquois people
When I still worked at the Carnegie Museum of Natural History, I always liked to tell people in the Hall of American Indians about the Haudenosaunee. I loved working the cultural halls in general, but it was something fresh and interesting for the visitors considering how little Native American history is taught in US schools.
I am in awe of what you guys are doing with this history series. Everything is perfect. Everything down to the filtered voice on the narration is amazing. I especially love that you guys pick stories that not a lot of people are terribly familiar with. Keep up the good work!
Thank you so much for these episodes. It can be tricky finding these kinds of stories of the First Nations online and especially challenging to find them told by people of European descent with respect. I appreciate your disclaimers at the beginning of this video as well, that this is one interpretation of the story, and the way you treat this particular episode like a storyteller and use the correct names and words for all involved. It is easy as a white man to feel nothing but sadness and guilt when discussing Native American history but this really warms my heart, thank you for telling this story and being so respectful.
Cabbadath B Back again with the plagues, I see? Don't tell me that things could not of turned out very differently if instead of having peace, they ordered a massive surprise attack on the settlers, wiping them out and deterring further colonization.
This is the sort of story that brings tears of joy to my eyes. To see people uniting across nation, gender, and ideology to embrace happiness and reject hatred... It really is a thing of beauty. I don't know how closely this parable mirrors the actual events, but this is the way I will keep it in my heart, to remember at all times that there was at least once when the love of mankind did not falter
I think it's great that you guys are doing a series on First Nations history before the arrival of Europeans. So many times whenever I hear about the history of Native Americans, it's always about how they were conquered and displaced by European invaders. I never get to learn the history of their culture before Columbus. And I especially appreciate that the subject matter of Extra History isn't limited to any particular culture, or even format of historical record. It's pretty hard to do fact checking when you're getting all your information from an oral history. But the fact that your acceptable forms of historical records are not limited merely to scripture, shows an open mindedness and an eagerness to learn and share the wisdom of the past, which isn't always as broad in scope as some people would like to believe of themselves. Besides, sometimes the lessons that history can teach us, are more important than getting all the tiny details right. Thank you sincerely for sharing these stories with all of us.
Extra History has expanded my understanding of history so much, and has given me so much evidence to combat the claims that "humans are inherently evil and cannot escape their own fate." Thank you so much for everything you do. You help people better themselves, and I respect you so much for that
I live in Wisconsin, near where the Oneida reservation is today, and I think it's super cool that you're telling this story about the formation of this confederacy.
It's quite interesting listening to this because I used to live in the Mohawk Valley and never knew that. I just knew the name sounded familiar because there's street named after him in Syracuse by the mall . And I was also stationed by there with the Army National Guard.
I love this series and as an Upstate New Yorker I'm thoroughly enjoying this one in particular. We are many local stories and legends about the native peoples who lived here on Seneca Lake. Many of our villages, landmarks, our lakes and mountains, even many notable tourist attractions are Native American in origin. Their stories and legends and histories deserve to be remembered. So thank you Extra Credit for spreading the word on one of the most beautiful and historic locations in the Northeast. I love the Finger Lakes I love the Finger Lakes region and recommend everyone visit comma weather be for our famous vineyards or are Native American history. :-)
As a descendant of the Haudenosaunee, I am honored and thrilled that you guys are talking about my ancestors ! I actually didn't study their story, I only know bits and pieces of it, you are teaching me my heritage. I didn't think it was possible for my respect of you to rise this high and yet to continue rising.
What a fantastic bit of history that I had never known! I lived in the New England and New York area for 20 years, and never had a single history teacher come close to explaining the formation of the Iroquois Nation in such detail, let alone in such a concise and entertaining manner! Kudos to you Extra Credits team!
I have seriously binge watched this series in the span of three days. Never stop doing these. These are amazing! If I was an art history, or just plan history teacher I would so take time to show any of these to my students, but seriously how amazing has TH-cam become? For what was once one of the most boring classes in school we know push away free time to actively watch?
As someone who grew up near Hiawatha Island, I want to thank you for giving something near and dear to my heart this attention, and helping me to understand the island's namesake.
Wow, this was one your best episodes: easy to grasp, important content, funny and very informative illustrations (who drew this one?)... I bow to you extra credits/history people, this was a treat.
People's liking of history is all about how the history is told, boring memorization of facts will never win over anyone, but informative, entertaining series like this will. Thank you for getting me interested in the history of the New World
Dude I love how hand in hand civ 5 goes with World History classes. I felt like I learned so much from it when I covered the material in school that I was playing at home
I got that feeling more from EU4 and the Total War games, civ 5 feels like historical fanfiction... Not to discredit the game in any way, civ 5 is great, but Gandhi just nuked the shit out of Dido...
Thank you guys so much for posting this! I love learning about the histories and cultures of the First Nations, so this is incredibly interesting to me! Plus, I especially love seeing less well known aspects of history covered on Extra Credits. I love how you emphasized how the Great Law of Peace had an influence on the US Constitution and how it, and the Haudenosaunee, are still around today.
"So, hey... War is kinda bad, all this death and chaos makes living somewhat unpleasant... How 'bout we organize some laws to bring peace to our homes, and talk our neighbours into following so... yeah, even the dickheads..." Who's the civilized continent now huh?
When the Europeans came, the Iroquois had no problem playing the same game. They absorbed new tribes and made war expanding their territory from Albany all the way to Detroit. In the end, they weren't undone by disease so much as a split between the member tribes on who to side with during the American Revolution.
Undone by a split? The native Americans never really stood a chance against Europeans. The Europeans not only developed the modern weapons the natives were just learning to use, but also had centuries to develop military methods, drills, etc, that went hand in hand with the new weaponry, one influencing the other. In addition, they had a far more specialized civilization, much greater understanding of science, more efficient methods of production, which leaves more manpower, greater reserves of ammo and better logistics, and so on. Not to disparage any accomplishments or bravery of the native Americans, but... they never really stood a chance.
GreyWolfLeaderTW It depends where. The hardest hit by disease were right on the Atlantic seaboard in North America, the Caribbean, and the initial Spanish landings. Tribes further inland were affected but not as much such as the Iroquois while even more insulated tribes west of the Mississippi were affected even less. It's for that reason that some Iroquois tribes survived and many of the Western tribes did at least in number even if they are not thriving by internal measures.
After seeing them do the South Sees bubble and then do two WWII videos [one about the EASTERN front (OMG its like they don't even know Germany was defeated because 'murica just rode in on a white horse and saved the day!) and the other about the significance of strategic resources]. I don't think I can be surprised anymore.
This is so beautiful and happy. Unlike almost every single other Extra History series, this one seems to be happy endings for almost everyone. I love it so much!
The Freys had heard that saying, or something equivalent, which was the reason the Starks let their guard down. The Freys broke not just their alliance, but the hospitality rules that are fundamental to Westerosi morality.
When I read Hiawatha as the title, I remembered: By the shores of Gitche Gumee, By the shining Big-Sea-Water, Stood the wigwam of Nokomis, Daughter of the Moon, Nokomis. Dark behind it rose the forest, Rose the black and gloomy pine-trees, Rose the firs with cones upon them; Bright before it beat the water, Beat the clear and sunny water, Beat the shining Big-Sea-Water.
Thank you guys very much to give us all these little chunks of history that can make perceive a much bigger world, a much bigger history of those we didn't know.
I've commented this before and I'll do it again: why may we not learn about this branch of history in school? It's interesting, it's different, and we can honestly probably learn more from it than whatever what's-his-face James Taylor or Millard Fillmore did.
So so far on Extra history we've had Hiawatha of the Iroquois, Shaka of the Zulu, Suleiman the Magnificent, Samurai oda nobunaga and Justinian of Byzantium. Does this mean we're eventually going to cover all the Civilization Five leaders?
The reason I clicked on this was because I'm currently playing Hiawatha in Civ 5. The 'Longhouse' buff is awesome. 🙂 BTW, it's Empress Theodora for Byzantium in Civ 5.
Finally! An Extra History I knew something about ahead of time! I've lived in Upstate New York almost all my life and it was mandatory to learn about Hiawatha in our elementary schools. Never in my life did I think that they'd be discussing it on Extra History though.
this is actually really intetsting for me to listen to because I'm actually from upstate New York and have heard all these names but never the story. Thanks extra crew for teaching me about my local history!
The Native American tribes were around before Canada.. The Mohawk territory ranged north to the St. Lawrence River, southern Quebec and eastern Ontario... So Canada.
Wow. Extra history goes more in depth with the Iroquois than my school. ( I live in canada so we spend about 2 years in elementary and one in high school again so you would of think that I know a lot of the iroquois but no)
This is one of your greatest history videos, I would totally dig more episodes from peoples with rich oral history that tends to fall through the cracks of written history. Keep up the awesome work!
And because they had no domesticated farming animals, that made them even more susceptible to old worlds diseases when the Europeans chanced upon them.
Ezekiel De La Croix which brings up an even better point about the native Americans, if a civilization doesn't find a need, they wont find a way. Simply put they didn't need farms, metals or money so they never wasted time making them, until it would've been too late. Same with china and such. The reason the greeks and romans were so successful is that they had the resources, and just happened to need them in the climate they were in.
I don't understand the infighting about "oral history". There's value in teaching and analyzing everything from Greek myths to cave paintings. Why not derive what we can from Indian tribal stories to make educated guesses as to the gaps in our own history? It's obviously nowhere near as useful as an actual historical record, but it's what we have to work with.
I've met exactly two history teachers that are even close to being as good as you are. Thanks for this, you may have saved my history final in a few years!
Wow they were so enlightened! The sad part is that by listening to all this, I get the impression that the very reason why Native American technology stagnated for so long was because of this 'lasting peace' and so when the Europeans came they were no match. Such a terrible end for so great a human achievement
Well, I wouldn't put it to their state of peace to them being conquered. I would blame it on their geographical position. In their area they had no domesticated animals which meant they could not build up tolerance fur diseases that came from animals, as well as them being isolated from the rest of the world, meaning that developments like gun powder and steel weapons and armor could not be obtained.
War was quite common, as well as human sacrifices and small genocides, depending on whereabouts in America you look. I'm not smart enough to know the real reason why they couldn't/didn't develop better technology on the scale of their European neighbours, but it certainly was not the fault of a lack of war.
@@VintageLJ competition. Europe is tiny, and filled with many nations. They never had enough resources, and so developed to gain an edge. Meanwhile, North America had many resources. There was enough for all, and so they did not need to develop as fast as Europe did. Furthermore, almost all of Europe is linked to water and could trade and learn from most of the world.
I love the two series you're doing right now, Peoples Democracy in Rome and Confederacy and peace making in this series. These messages need to be sent to the world today.
"he wanted all people to live in peace"
It was at that moment I could tell something bad is gonna happen to that guy
He dies...eventually, I'm not sure when or how, but he dies.
Well of course he dies. We all die eventually.
+I'm Very Angry It's Not Butter not if you believe in reincarnation. not technically at least.
Well, something like 6.5% of all humans who were ever born are currently alive. And if the singularity comes soon enough and goes well, the concept of "death" may become irrelevant to many of us.
Or, to quote Ray Kurzweil, "live long enough to live forever"...
Idealists often die for their ideals, but not before making a permanent impression upon the world. It is necessary for humanity to abolish war and violence in order to evolve further, and until that occurs, we will suffer from lack of resources, sickness, crime, and drama. Until we take that next step, people will still have heartbreaking divorces and violent mobs to deal with. Until we can fully devote resources to peaceful efforts, rather than even protective war efforts (like having the soldiers and weapons to go to war just to keep others from doing so), we won't be able to cure cancer or AIDS fully, we won't be able to extend lives, and we won't have the ability to feed everyone or house them without destroying the very planet we live on.
TLDR: Humans, get a clue, fighting is POINTLESS.
I'd love to hear more stories of Native American historical figures. That's an aspect of history we really don't get exposed to enough of.
Unless you are Canadian then there is to much
I'm american and proud of it, but i can't shake the idea of moving to canada.
I'm french-canadian and I say we don't get taught squat about native history or culture in school or in the medias and I know it's a lot the same in the rest of Canada. So, where do you get the idea that it's too much?
Gord Downie disagreed with you just a few nights ago.
Never enough.
Nya:weh [Thank You] to Extra Credits for this great episode. I gotta admit; I was very nervous going into this one. Never would I think that Extra Credits would purposefully disrespect a people's history, but our people's history is undervalued even in our home country. However, I was impressed by the candor, accuracy, and respect given to the story of Hiawatha and the Great Peacemaker and Jikonhsaseh.
Thank you back. I was very nervous going into writing this one; I'm aware that this history, when it's told at all, is often distorted by inaccuracy and assumption, and the last thing I wanted to do was add more to that legacy. So I put a lot of effort and a lot of time into reading all the versions of this history I could find and learning all I could about the cultures of each of the Five Nations. I'm sure I still made mistakes, but I am truly glad that the effort shows through. I hope the second and final episode will also live up to this standard! -Soraya
The nature of the oral tradition creating slight variations on the same story makes it totally understandable to hear a slight take on an event. I'm an Oneida person, lived in the First Nations community in my city for nearly 25 years, and I still hear new variations from elders, scholars, and storytellers. The core themes and ideas remain largely the same with each telling, though, and that is what's important.
Does any variation of the story give a reason for the architects of this peace not waiting to turn Tadodaho until all the rest of the tribes had bought in to the Great Law? That is, going to the Seneca (or whoever was left besides the Onondaga) with overtures of peace to consolidate power before approaching Tadodaho with a request that he would dismiss out of hand.
According to an Elder, the reason why Hiawatha came to Tadodaho after recruiting the Oneida with the Peacemaker (who is Mohawk) is because he wanted to bring not only the source of this new Great Law (the Peacemaker) but also one other Nation that had embraced it. Sort of like showing the blueprints and the proof of concept at the same time.
Like they said in the video, Hiawatha believed that 2 Nations embracing peace would persuade Tadodaho to at least consider the Great law of Peace.
I live in the U.S., in NY as well. I live in former Algonquian territory, but I learned much more about the Iroquois then the Algonquian.
Whoa whoa. I live in that part of NY and we (barely) learn about the Iroquois (once) in elementary school but we were never told this. Hell, we even have a (shitty outskirt) street called "Hiawatha" but we were never told it was named after someone.
I live in the opposite end in Canada but we learnt so much about the Iroquois confederacy
Yeah, how much people in the US learn about Native people is pretty spotty. Some schools do better than others but it's mostly crap.
That's because schools in the US usually take their curriculum from California or Texas. Books adopted by those states are usually accepted by all others (or 50/50 of them, there are two states as leaders after all) with few exceptions. So you as a New Yorker would not learn NY history unless you specifically sought it out or used some alternative form of schooling that used an alternative curriculum like homeschooling or some private schools.
I feel your pain though, I always thought that Vermont history was a bore where nothing happened until I took a course on it in college. Turns out that your state and mine have quite a storied history. Did you know that at one point Vermont was going to annex a fourth of modern New York and almost all of New Hampshire and was only stopped from going full American Anschluss by a letter from George Washington telling the government of the Vermont Republic that annexing "Greater Vermont" would jeopardize the young nation's application to join the United States. It was quite a change from when New York was sending in troops to suppress angry Connecticut settlers in the Green Mountain area.
Cody Fett Holy shit. I did not knowthat about Vermont and New York.
Here's the thing. In fourth grade our Social Studies was centered on the history of NY (I still remember the text books. It was blue and had the words "NEW YORK" around the Statue of Liberty). The fact that we barely learned anything about pre-colonial NY and our relationship with Vermont is really disheartening
I grew up in the Oneida area and had teachers that were part of the Oneida nation. We learned a bit more about history like this as a result. It's awesome to see this history being told.
Onondaga, Oneida, Cayuga, Seneca, Mohawk. Long ago, the five nations lived together in harmony. Then everything changed, when the pale faces arrived.
*slowclap.gif*
Really, a lot of history could be summed up with "But everything changed when the white people attacked."
MusicandGamesandStuf Europeans conquered Americas even when the natives didn't piss them off, lol.
HA! That was good hehe
Aerunn Allado 1. No one is insulting anyone.
2. Nation states didn't exist in the Americas when the first Europeans arrived.
3. Try harder next time.
I cried almost the whole way through this, Jigonsaseh and Hiawatha are too pure for this world, bless.
Amen!
Bonus episode brought to you by DomiNations! smarturl.it/DOMHistory
Your regularly scheduled Gracchi Brothers series on Extra History will continue as normal this Saturday!
oh ok thanks i didn't know
yass if I could sponsor this I would be giving this all my money each yet
+Mirjalol Mirsaburov how so?
I like dominations
Well, they DID list a Patreon link in the video description. So yes, you can support it!
Holy shit. I've never been very interested in Native American history.
I might have to take a 180 on that now.
^ May be one of the best compliments I've ever received. -Soraya
+Extra Credits Oh don't worry, virtually every single Extra History series has done that for so many people, stretching all the way back to The Punic Wars. That first epic on Hannibal is what finally made me click that Subscribe button, and your updates are always a high point for me.
I only wish I had some spare cash that I could donate to the EH Patreon, so I could help support and contribute.... but alas, rent must be paid and teeth must be fixed T~T
Don't even sweat it. We love our patrons for making EH possible, but we tell them over and over not to pledge beyond what's comfortable for them, and the same applies to you. We're happy that we get to do this and grateful for the love that keeps our morale engines running.
i just love this tone of voice
I've gotta say, you're extra history tidbits are the best :)
As a Native American I am ecstatic that this is being covered! Thank you guys!
Yeah I can tell you look Native American
You are the most Caucasian Native American I’ve ever seen…
Hiawatha wanted peace for his nation, but a powerful war chief stood in his way. He needed allies.
I bet 1 million dollers extra credits won't respond to this comment.
And with whom do you make this bet?
+MicManGuy me
This was a completely different story in my classroom then you said Hiawatha wasn't even there when they told it and they didn't know a thing about wampums before
Walpole?
YES! This is the kind of video I wanted to see Extra history tackle!
I have to admit I was very surprised to see this upload, but I'm also extremely grateful to see my local history being shared and given attention by a larger outlet. Thank you very much for sharing this story, E.C.
Hiawatha wanted peace, Gandhi had other plans.
I can see someone who plays Civilization.
"Let them all burn in the nuclear fires, so they might be purified" Gandhi, 1820
I'm confused, can someone tell me what's the joke?
@@utkarshdubey3435 There's this game that both Gandhi and Hiwatha are in called civilization. And the joke is that for some reason in the game Gandhi is ultra aggressive.
NUKES!!!!
Meanwhile Iroquois in EU4...
"CASUS BELI? THERE WILL BE NO CASUS BELI! THERE CAN BE ONLY WAR, ENDLESS WAR!!!"
CASUS BELLI*
Iroquois society began to collapse when it became devastated by disease. Wars began to be the fought by Iroquois against other groups to acquire people (the mourning war) and more resources and trade routes. The Huron to their North were allied with France but France refused to give arms to Hurons who weren't Christians. The Dutch and English didn't have such a qualm and so the Iroquois became much better armed than their neighbours.
So many things happened at once that catapulted the Iroquois to become a massive regional power.
+L'Orso “Il Piromane” Totalworriano Oh come on!
AlHoresmi sorry but has fan of EU4 my eyes were bleeding ç.ç
You play European war 4?
The best estimate I’ve heard for the dating of these events is sometime around 1150. that was arrived at by looking at how many leaders the Haudenosaunee are supposed to have had and working out the average amount of time prestigious public offices held for life (popes, kings, supreme court Judges, etc) typically last.
Working back like that you get to somewhere around the mid-12th century
As someone from this region of New York (Onondaga), the story of Hiawatha and the Iroquois is a huge part of our history classes. Love seeing this recognition of the great Iroquois people
They should make movies about this. Or a series like viking or somthing.
tadodaho seems awfuly like me when im plaing EU 4 as a tribal nation
It's fucking EU4, a game that seems to take ideas about war not from history, but from Warhammer.
I knew it wasn't just me who thought that!
I've never even played a Native American nation.
yeah it's a pretty boring game if you just try to maintain peace with everyone :P
How? Bigger army wins has always been true for humanity.
When I still worked at the Carnegie Museum of Natural History, I always liked to tell people in the Hall of American Indians about the Haudenosaunee. I loved working the cultural halls in general, but it was something fresh and interesting for the visitors considering how little Native American history is taught in US schools.
There not called Indians
@@jamieharper1932cry more about it bro
What is the difference between American Indian and Alaska Natives?
I am in awe of what you guys are doing with this history series. Everything is perfect. Everything down to the filtered voice on the narration is amazing. I especially love that you guys pick stories that not a lot of people are terribly familiar with. Keep up the good work!
Thank you so much for these episodes. It can be tricky finding these kinds of stories of the First Nations online and especially challenging to find them told by people of European descent with respect. I appreciate your disclaimers at the beginning of this video as well, that this is one interpretation of the story, and the way you treat this particular episode like a storyteller and use the correct names and words for all involved. It is easy as a white man to feel nothing but sadness and guilt when discussing Native American history but this really warms my heart, thank you for telling this story and being so respectful.
Tadodaho: you Idiot! in this world is kill or be kill!
Knowing that one day all tribes can live in peace filled Hiawatha with DETERMINATION!
+CaptainNnif That sounds interesting. Just don't give TOO much reverence to Native culture.
The undertale is strong with this one.
Unfortunately Tadodaho may have been right once English settlers arrived.
*****
You're right. War would have certainly stopped the plagues that killed most Native Americans. (facepalm)
Cabbadath B
Back again with the plagues, I see? Don't tell me that things could not of turned out very differently if instead of having peace, they ordered a massive surprise attack on the settlers, wiping them out and deterring further colonization.
This is the sort of story that brings tears of joy to my eyes. To see people uniting across nation, gender, and ideology to embrace happiness and reject hatred... It really is a thing of beauty.
I don't know how closely this parable mirrors the actual events, but this is the way I will keep it in my heart, to remember at all times that there was at least once when the love of mankind did not falter
I think it's great that you guys are doing a series on First Nations history before the arrival of Europeans. So many times whenever I hear about the history of Native Americans, it's always about how they were conquered and displaced by European invaders. I never get to learn the history of their culture before Columbus.
And I especially appreciate that the subject matter of Extra History isn't limited to any particular culture, or even format of historical record. It's pretty hard to do fact checking when you're getting all your information from an oral history. But the fact that your acceptable forms of historical records are not limited merely to scripture, shows an open mindedness and an eagerness to learn and share the wisdom of the past, which isn't always as broad in scope as some people would like to believe of themselves. Besides, sometimes the lessons that history can teach us, are more important than getting all the tiny details right.
Thank you sincerely for sharing these stories with all of us.
Extra History has expanded my understanding of history so much, and has given me so much evidence to combat the claims that "humans are inherently evil and cannot escape their own fate." Thank you so much for everything you do. You help people better themselves, and I respect you so much for that
Yay, indigenous American history! So glad to see it here.
I live in Wisconsin, near where the Oneida reservation is today, and I think it's super cool that you're telling this story about the formation of this confederacy.
also in wisconsin, the amtrak line connecting milwaukee to chicago is called the hiawatha line.
It's quite interesting listening to this because I used to live in the Mohawk Valley and never knew that. I just knew the name sounded familiar because there's street named after him in Syracuse by the mall . And I was also stationed by there with the Army National Guard.
I love this series and as an Upstate New Yorker I'm thoroughly enjoying this one in particular. We are many local stories and legends about the native peoples who lived here on Seneca Lake. Many of our villages, landmarks, our lakes and mountains, even many notable tourist attractions are Native American in origin. Their stories and legends and histories deserve to be remembered. So thank you Extra Credit for spreading the word on one of the most beautiful and historic locations in the Northeast. I love the Finger Lakes I love the Finger Lakes region and recommend everyone visit comma weather be for our famous vineyards or are Native American history. :-)
A new Extra History on a Thursday?! What have I done to deserve this is it my birthday???
It's beautiful
The beauty of SponCon
Yesterday just so happened to be my birthday. Don't worry, I'm willing to share my late birthday present.
Aw happy birthday! Hope it was great, and thanks for sharing this gift with us ;)
Mine is today now actually XD
As a descendant of the Haudenosaunee, I am honored and thrilled that you guys are talking about my ancestors ! I actually didn't study their story, I only know bits and pieces of it, you are teaching me my heritage. I didn't think it was possible for my respect of you to rise this high and yet to continue rising.
I'm glad you're bringing this up, too few realize how much the Natives influenced our nation's government/creation and its formation :)
What a fantastic bit of history that I had never known! I lived in the New England and New York area for 20 years, and never had a single history teacher come close to explaining the formation of the Iroquois Nation in such detail, let alone in such a concise and entertaining manner! Kudos to you Extra Credits team!
I remember learning about this in Elementary school, growing up in NY. I wish I had learned more, this sounds like an amazing group of people.
I have seriously binge watched this series in the span of three days. Never stop doing these. These are amazing! If I was an art history, or just plan history teacher I would so take time to show any of these to my students, but seriously how amazing has TH-cam become? For what was once one of the most boring classes in school we know push away free time to actively watch?
This is incredibly interesting, and I've never heard about this portion of history. Thanks for choosing this!
As someone who grew up near Hiawatha Island, I want to thank you for giving something near and dear to my heart this attention, and helping me to understand the island's namesake.
Hiawatha: make your own choices!
Also Hiawatha: you must Choose peace.
"In a family no one is beyond saving." is the most beautiful thought about family I ever heard.
Well, if a guy just wants to make war. Give him NO ONE to fight against.
THE BEST OF A SERIES OF EXCELLENT VIDEOS. CONGRATULATIONS AND THANK YOU!
Wow, this was one your best episodes: easy to grasp, important content, funny and very informative illustrations (who drew this one?)... I bow to you extra credits/history people, this was a treat.
As a Canadian, I love hearing stories about these people who helped build our country so much
Brought to you by the best civilization in Civ V.
cmon! Venice is waaaay better!
+Dale Ghandi :^)
IMPI IMPI IMPI IMPI IMPI
Babylon is probably the best civ in civ 5 due to the science ramping but to each there own
ummm.... It's a joke. Venice and Iroquois are terrible.
People's liking of history is all about how the history is told, boring memorization of facts will never win over anyone, but informative, entertaining series like this will. Thank you for getting me interested in the history of the New World
Theodora...suleimon...Hiawatha don't know if it's extra history or Civ 5
Next up, Dido, and the foundation of Carthage.
easy, if you have not been nuked by ganhdi then its not Civ5 xD
I mean... You know what civ is based on, right?
Dude I love how hand in hand civ 5 goes with World History classes. I felt like I learned so much from it when I covered the material in school that I was playing at home
I got that feeling more from EU4 and the Total War games, civ 5 feels like historical fanfiction... Not to discredit the game in any way, civ 5 is great, but Gandhi just nuked the shit out of Dido...
Thank you guys so much for posting this! I love learning about the histories and cultures of the First Nations, so this is incredibly interesting to me! Plus, I especially love seeing less well known aspects of history covered on Extra Credits. I love how you emphasized how the Great Law of Peace had an influence on the US Constitution and how it, and the Haudenosaunee, are still around today.
Peacemaker says, "You have colored beads... I like your style."
Awesome episode.
Gentle-dudes, your vids are "A"-mazing. Thank you and kindly, keep it up!
✌🏾
"So, hey... War is kinda bad, all this death and chaos makes living somewhat unpleasant... How 'bout we organize some laws to bring peace to our homes, and talk our neighbours into following so... yeah, even the dickheads..."
Who's the civilized continent now huh?
When the Europeans came, the Iroquois had no problem playing the same game. They absorbed new tribes and made war expanding their territory from Albany all the way to Detroit.
In the end, they weren't undone by disease so much as a split between the member tribes on who to side with during the American Revolution.
+Plowbeast yeah as shown in AC3
Undone by a split? The native Americans never really stood a chance against Europeans. The Europeans not only developed the modern weapons the natives were just learning to use, but also had centuries to develop military methods, drills, etc, that went hand in hand with the new weaponry, one influencing the other. In addition, they had a far more specialized civilization, much greater understanding of science, more efficient methods of production, which leaves more manpower, greater reserves of ammo and better logistics, and so on. Not to disparage any accomplishments or bravery of the native Americans, but... they never really stood a chance.
Then the nation become big, greed return, war comes.
GreyWolfLeaderTW It depends where. The hardest hit by disease were right on the Atlantic seaboard in North America, the Caribbean, and the initial Spanish landings.
Tribes further inland were affected but not as much such as the Iroquois while even more insulated tribes west of the Mississippi were affected even less. It's for that reason that some Iroquois tribes survived and many of the Western tribes did at least in number even if they are not thriving by internal measures.
Awesome! Thank you, ExtraCredits and DomiNations!
I can't say I ever expected you all to do an episode on Hiawatha & the Peace Maker.
Don't forget Jigonseseh. She's going to prove to be important.
Indeed she will. :) I just know the story by the name Hiawatha and the Peace Maker.
After seeing them do the South Sees bubble and then do two WWII videos [one about the EASTERN front (OMG its like they don't even know Germany was defeated because 'murica just rode in on a white horse and saved the day!) and the other about the significance of strategic resources]. I don't think I can be surprised anymore.
Great video! My students enjoyed it and learned a lot in the process!
9:22
"Ohana means family. Family means "no one gets left behind." - Lilo & Stitch
I'm loving what you guys are doing! Please never stop spreading this knowledge! I'd never even heard of Hiawatha before this!
Mohawk here
It's nice to have our culture and society appreciated
I'm 1/3 Mohawk I'd love to learn more about that part of my heritage.
@@QuillStroke Yeah me too.
On the American side.
@@QuillStroke I’m only 1/64 Mohawk but yes, this is a very interesting topic.
"in a family, no one was beyond saving." that made me tear up, beautiful job
my teacher made a worksheet that’s being graded as a quiz based off of this video 😭 love the video tho!!
Amazing!!! 😱
As a native American I love that you are telling people about this history
Did you know Mohawk is a name that was given to that tribe by their ennemies? Mohawk means cannibal. Their real name is Kanien'kehá:ka.
Your comment interest me.
Could you share more, or reference me to someone who may know more?
I’ve heard that the Europeans did that with pretty much all the tribes. They named them what their enemies called them.
This is so beautiful and happy. Unlike almost every single other Extra History series, this one seems to be happy endings for almost everyone. I love it so much!
Oh don't worry, eventually a plague devistates the civilization and European colonists sweep up the rest. That won't be for quite some time though.
Could you do one about the Mayans, Aztecs and/or Incas?
Romar Paqueo they did Incas
I wouldn't call the Aztecs peaceful.
@@justinnnnnn5676 Neither were the Inca empires don't just spring up. The Mayans also had periods of warfare city state vs city state.
I love north American history! Thank you for this video, your team is truly inspiring!
people whom feed from the same stew pot, share kinship...words to live by
+DrunkbandPresents If only the Freys heard that saying.
clearly we need to make this happen, Estus Soup for all who need/want it for whom am i to judge the will of the hungry
The Freys had heard that saying, or something equivalent, which was the reason the Starks let their guard down. The Freys broke not just their alliance, but the hospitality rules that are fundamental to Westerosi morality.
Kevin Baker
Yes I know of the 'bread and salt' rule which was mentioned multiple times throughout the book but I just felt making a quick joke on it.
Thanks for this guys (and DomiNations), it is wonderful to see some First Nations history.
When I read Hiawatha as the title, I remembered:
By the shores of Gitche Gumee,
By the shining Big-Sea-Water,
Stood the wigwam of Nokomis,
Daughter of the Moon, Nokomis.
Dark behind it rose the forest,
Rose the black and gloomy pine-trees,
Rose the firs with cones upon them;
Bright before it beat the water,
Beat the clear and sunny water,
Beat the shining Big-Sea-Water.
This one was one of your best ones. I can't wait for part 2.
9:25 .. Hiawatha always had a Plan. .. oh w8 that was Bismarck ^^ .. but Hiawatha might always had one too. :)
I love this video series. I am glad that you guys are willing to do it every week.
i love this. Im ashamed about how little I know of native american history
Thank you guys very much to give us all these little chunks of history that can make perceive a much bigger world, a much bigger history of those we didn't know.
2:30 But how did that tragic accident happe-
Walpole. It was Walpole.
Slap my Hand! It's always Walpole. Also, **slap**
What’s that?
I'm so excited about this! I live in upstate ny, so I'm happy you guys are covering something local to me.
I've commented this before and I'll do it again: why may we not learn about this branch of history in school? It's interesting, it's different, and we can honestly probably learn more from it than whatever what's-his-face James Taylor or Millard Fillmore did.
50 seconds into the video and I'm already loving it. Well done. Keep it up.
So so far on Extra history we've had Hiawatha of the Iroquois, Shaka of the Zulu, Suleiman the Magnificent, Samurai oda nobunaga and Justinian of Byzantium. Does this mean we're eventually going to cover all the Civilization Five leaders?
If that's the case, I'm hoping they delve into ancient Egyptian history, since I know next to nothing about it.
Great video channel 👍🏽
The reason I clicked on this was because I'm currently playing Hiawatha in Civ 5. The 'Longhouse' buff is awesome. 🙂
BTW, it's Empress Theodora for Byzantium in Civ 5.
Finally! An Extra History I knew something about ahead of time! I've lived in Upstate New York almost all my life and it was mandatory to learn about Hiawatha in our elementary schools. Never in my life did I think that they'd be discussing it on Extra History though.
"If you like their system so much go live with them!" The more things change XD
First History episode i have watched. Enjoyed!
Hiawatha had a plan
Hiawatha *ALWAYS* has a plan
The wisdom of the first peoples is truly stunning most modern nations could still stand to learn from this wisdom.
I miss this narrator
this is actually really intetsting for me to listen to because I'm actually from upstate New York and have heard all these names but never the story. Thanks extra crew for teaching me about my local history!
Canadian History!!!
Thanks Extra Credits!
more like New York history bro.
Ha! Nope
Well, "Canadian namesake" history, then. "Canada" comes from a misunderstanding of the word "Kanata", meaning "viilage/settlement".
The Native American tribes were around before Canada.. The Mohawk territory ranged north to the St. Lawrence River, southern Quebec and eastern Ontario... So Canada.
Current borders didn't exist and as such this history encompasses both Canada and the USA.
Wow, the character art in this episode is some of the best yet!
Cool to see some Native American history. It rarely gets explored in most series, sadly.
This is fantastic! Would definitely love to see more series on Native American History!!
Wow. Extra history goes more in depth with the Iroquois than my school. ( I live in canada so we spend about 2 years in elementary and one in high school again so you would of think that I know a lot of the iroquois but no)
This is one of your greatest history videos, I would totally dig more episodes from peoples with rich oral history that tends to fall through the cracks of written history. Keep up the awesome work!
If only they had another 500 years like everyone else did, and maybe they could've made a real nation out of themselves.
They did make a nation then went on the warpath genocide was a comment tactic they employed.
And because they had no domesticated farming animals, that made them even more susceptible to old worlds diseases when the Europeans chanced upon them.
Yeah, and it's obvious to see why they were so late too, being a result of them traveling much longer than any other human civilization.
well they also lacked domesticated animals, they did have less time than most, but without animals there is a cap to accomplishments
Ezekiel De La Croix which brings up an even better point about the native Americans, if a civilization doesn't find a need, they wont find a way. Simply put they didn't need farms, metals or money so they never wasted time making them, until it would've been too late. Same with china and such. The reason the greeks and romans were so successful is that they had the resources, and just happened to need them in the climate they were in.
This channel is great, thanks man :D
I don't understand the infighting about "oral history". There's value in teaching and analyzing everything from Greek myths to cave paintings. Why not derive what we can from Indian tribal stories to make educated guesses as to the gaps in our own history? It's obviously nowhere near as useful as an actual historical record, but it's what we have to work with.
I've met exactly two history teachers that are even close to being as good as you are. Thanks for this, you may have saved my history final in a few years!
Wow they were so enlightened! The sad part is that by listening to all this, I get the impression that the very reason why Native American technology stagnated for so long was because of this 'lasting peace' and so when the Europeans came they were no match. Such a terrible end for so great a human achievement
+Glenssuos Extra
thanks, I am interested in this topic
Well, I wouldn't put it to their state of peace to them being conquered. I would blame it on their geographical position. In their area they had no domesticated animals which meant they could not build up tolerance fur diseases that came from animals, as well as them being isolated from the rest of the world, meaning that developments like gun powder and steel weapons and armor could not be obtained.
War was quite common, as well as human sacrifices and small genocides, depending on whereabouts in America you look. I'm not smart enough to know the real reason why they couldn't/didn't develop better technology on the scale of their European neighbours, but it certainly was not the fault of a lack of war.
Necessity is the mother of invention and they felt like they had everything they needed.
@@VintageLJ competition. Europe is tiny, and filled with many nations. They never had enough resources, and so developed to gain an edge. Meanwhile, North America had many resources. There was enough for all, and so they did not need to develop as fast as Europe did. Furthermore, almost all of Europe is linked to water and could trade and learn from most of the world.
I'm so glad you guys decided to cover this. An awesome look into real Native American history.
Tadedahao Redemption arc incoming? yes? no?
This was a very good episode. Well done! :)
It was easy to follow and comprehend. The length was perfect, too.
As someone from Oneida (not the tribe the county) this means a lot to, the tribes got kinda messed up and there story’s need to be told!
You guys cover history from every civilizations. It's amazing! Thanks a bunch :)
YEEESSS, never thought id see a native being talked about on here lol we dont get much exposure
I love the two series you're doing right now, Peoples Democracy in Rome and Confederacy and peace making in this series. These messages need to be sent to the world today.