You know what they say... two heads is better than one! Keen to see your valve cages, I haven’t had much success with them, couldn’t get them to seal on both valve seat and the interference fit in head, these small engines very fussy with any compression leak. Valves are easy, use a piece of silver steel, centre, turn the stem a step at a time, finish back of valve and the seat face and part off. I find a slack stem in the guide isn’t a problem, in fact it’s helped my valves seal as it allows the seat and valve to align freely. Good work so far!
Looks good Andrew. When the spark plug has its cable attached the slight off centre will not be noticeable. I have only made pump valves. The key with those is to get a good seating between the valve and the sides of the chamber. I would expect these to be the same. A bit of work with valve paste or similar should give a good seal. I suspect it may be difficult to silver solder the rods in place with sufficient accuracy, although if you leave plenty to machine down afterwards you may get a satisfactory result. Very impressed with the headroom on your Mill. You can even fit the kitchen sink in there! Look forward to seeing how you progress. I am constantly amazed that you can take close up footage and do accurate work at the same time.
Hi Tim - thanks for the advice - I really appreciate it. I think I might give silver solder a try. It should be easy to machine the head and the stem, and if it doesn't work out I won't have wasted too much time or materials. Then I will go to plan B as per MisterG suggests. It gets quite challenging making the videos sometimes. My camera is a nice little Sony A6000 but the internal mic is terrible and there is no external mic socket. So I end up recording sound onto a separate device and syncing the video and sound up later. It does take the enjoyment out of machining sometimes and I must try to simplify the process and get a decent camera that records good sound. Yeah I'm really happy with the Warco mill. I best get back to some machining! Cheers
I am about the same point as you with my Farm Boy development. However, I am taking a slightly different set of sequences with respect to the head. I turned the head and drilled the holes for the head screws. It was enough to install the O-ring, bolt the head head and test the sealing of the piston O-ring with the cylinder (piston, connecting rod, crankshaft, cylinder and frame all completed and assembled). Next, I drilled one of the valve cage holes. I installed one valve cage. I am awaiting material for the valves, but the objective is to turn one valve, install it with the spring and insure that is seals well. Once satisfied with that valve, I will repeat the process with the other valve. Hopefully, when done I will be confident that I have reasonable sealing of the piston O-ring, head O-ring, and valves. We will see..... Nice videos.
Hi Steven - sounds like a far better strategy than mine. Very well thought out. If you have any tips on making the valves please let me know. Cheers Andrew
(1) Joe Pieczynski has a great video on drilling long straight holes. Great for the valve hole in the valve cage. (2) turn the valve stems in 3 steps,, each about 0.5" and a couple thousands oversized. Turn the outside firsdt. Then carefully take the last 2 thousands off with emery/600 grit wet/dry. Don't try to turn the full length. (3) Another kind and wise soul said to face the valve seat at 44' and the valve itself at 45'. Gives a sharp edge that seat better. (4) It is easier to turn the shaft to fit the hole than it is to bore the hold to fit the shaft. Especially with small diameters. Tips I got from HMEM and The Hobby Machin ist web sites.
Hi Andrew, on the Kerzel Hit & Miss the valves are a two piece assembly. I used drill rod(silver steel) for the valve stems and stainless steel for the valve heads. They were silver soldered together. Turned out great. Regards Kevin
Gday Andrew, the cylinder head turned out great, don’t be hard on yourself about the spark plug hole mate, I’m sure it will be fine and like you say once everything is bolted into place you will probably never notice it, you are doing a fantastic job of this engine, very enjoyable to watch, thank you, Take care. Matty
Thanks for another really greate video from a rigging master, class of Joe Pie, little Blondihcks.. More than "well done", At the time 11:22, drilling a larger hole in a smaller. That always happends I feel but it has given a good final bore. Some time ago a machinist told it's okey to drill a pilot hole, 0.8 diameter of the kernel of the final drill size. Drilling several, increasing holes, will affect the roundness of the final hole they said. Time 13:10. The math professor in action. Time 15:00 Whow! What equipment, what a setup. Time 17:00. Biting my nails, not many of them left.... Time 17:15. Like to say more than "agree". What a setup. Time 18:30. Soo much work and such critical work remaining. Too much thrilling for me. I'm thinking of Larry Poindexter making clock works. Poh, I'll open a can of beer.
Coming along nicely! FWIW: I would turn the valves from solid: Set up with enough length of stock for the whole valve, then turn the stem to close to final diameter for about 1/4" at a time. When you get to the head, turn the angle on the sealing face, then polish the stem and part off. It's easier if you make the cages first, so you can tickle the valve stems down to a perfect fit in the valve guides before parting off. It worked for me, anyway! :)
The screaming of the drill is because your rpm is to high. And about pre-drilling a tip is if your end size is for example 20 mm drill you pre drill with a drill the size if the point off the 20 mm drill. This way you use the maximum of the cutting edge with less change of chatter and breaking the cutting edge 😀
It's helpful to use an endmill and make a small flat when you have to drill at an angle it keeps your drill from wandering which is what i think happened to you. Great videos! It's coming along nicely.
Many thanks for the advice Jeremy. It makes a lot of sense. I've only got a limited range of metric end mills and no imperial ones - so it's not always easy. All the best. Andrew
Great job Andrew. Regarding turning down the stock so that it would go in the 3 Jaw with normal jaws. When I have that problem I use a 4 jaw independent as there is more travel on the jaws before having to reverse . I did think you were quite brave machining that stock without a centre for support though !
Hi Andrew, Thanks for this video... It did get me thinking that that using the right tool for the right job is so important... What I mean by that is the size of chuck you used on the lathe was ideal to simply move to the milling machine... I think there is sometimes a tendency to think bigger is better by some people. It was also good to see you using the collet to hold the drill bit... Keep the videos coming. Take care Paul,,
Making the valves was challenging because the material deflects a lot cutting the shafts, and I used several spring passes.. I gradually reduced my cut and got within 0.005" and used emery cloth to get under 0.001". I tried using my steady rest but it just got in the way because the parts are so small.
I've made many model engine valves either by turning the stems down to dimension or by using the correct shaft size and sliver soldering the heads on. Final shaping done on the lathe with light cuts in a collect chuck. I prefer the latter as it gives better results and with less hassle. Good idea to predrill the stems for keepers before soldering as the material may become harden after.
Hi David - many thanks for the advice. I think I'm leaning towards the silver soldering approach. If it doesn't work out I've not lost a great deal in time and materials. Thanks again. Andrew
@@learningturningmetal thanks for the reply. I'm trying to save up for a lathe. I rent a small room but for a extra £25 A week I have a 8 by 6 foot shed. So that's ok.
I was wondering why you didn't use a regular lead / tin solder. I have used 50/50 solder many times to accomplish what you did, only on much larger parts and it worked quite well, and separated much easier. I am enjoying watching your progress. Good Luck. Tim
Yeah I might have a go at that Chris if it keeps on bugging me. Mind you it will probably take me a couple of hours just to get the head back at 20 degrees! Cheers Andrew
Hi Bob - yeah it does. I didn't think about it at the time. Only negative would be getting it back perpendicular with the table after. Maybe next time! Thanks for pointing it out. Cheers Andrew
Hi Andrew, I share your frustration with the spark plug being off-centre. Could you open up the counter-bore slightly to re-centralise it about the spark plug? Yes, a bit of a nuisance, but at least you won't be constantly looking at it and thinking, bugger.
Andrew, there is a TH-cam contributor, W5CYF / TinkerJohn, who has a series on a hit and miss engine and he shows how he made and lapped valves, You might check his videos out to see what he did in manufacturing his valves. Concerning the drill bit that was noisy, it may have been slightly dull, or you may have been running it a little too fast. I hope you aren't too hard on yourself about the recess for the spark plug. I doubt if anyone will notice as they are marveling over what you have done on that engine.
Hi Robert - many thanks for the info - I will check out TinkerJohn. I think you are right about the noisy drill - both blunt and running too fast. I think I need to start replacing some of my drill bits. I hope you are correct about the spark plug recess - assuming I ever get this engine to run. Plenty of challenges yet to come. All the best. Andrew
Hi John - you've got me thinking now. Maybe I missed a great opportunity to experiment. Maybe the only drawback would have been getting the head back exactly perpendicular to the table. Or maybe there is an easy way? Cheers Andrew
I'm no expert but I though if you pilot drill, the pilot drill diameter should be no larger than the width of the web on the final drill? Can't remember where I heard that but I know that whenever I pilot drill with a size bigger than the web, I get that vibration. If it's in a drill press & I'm not holding the piece down correctly, it shakes, rattles & rolls!!!
Ha ha - sometimes I don't have a choice. I don't have any imperial end mills and my metric ones are pretty limited too! I just have to remember the magic number 25.4. All the best. Andrew
I really enjoy watching your projects!
Nice job. Looks good.
Thanks mate!
You are dead right to centre drill and then go up in steps Andrew. Great video. Thank you. Mike
Thanks Mike.
All the best.
Andrew
You know what they say... two heads is better than one!
Keen to see your valve cages, I haven’t had much success with them, couldn’t get them to seal on both valve seat and the interference fit in head, these small engines very fussy with any compression leak.
Valves are easy, use a piece of silver steel, centre, turn the stem a step at a time, finish back of valve and the seat face and part off. I find a slack stem in the guide isn’t a problem, in fact it’s helped my valves seal as it allows the seat and valve to align freely.
Good work so far!
Thanks for the advice James. Interesting times ahead!
All the best.
Andrew
Looks good Andrew. When the spark plug has its cable attached the slight off centre will not be noticeable. I have only made pump valves. The key with those is to get a good seating between the valve and the sides of the chamber. I would expect these to be the same. A bit of work with valve paste or similar should give a good seal. I suspect it may be difficult to silver solder the rods in place with sufficient accuracy, although if you leave plenty to machine down afterwards you may get a satisfactory result. Very impressed with the headroom on your Mill. You can even fit the kitchen sink in there! Look forward to seeing how you progress. I am constantly amazed that you can take close up footage and do accurate work at the same time.
Hi Tim - thanks for the advice - I really appreciate it. I think I might give silver solder a try. It should be easy to machine the head and the stem, and if it doesn't work out I won't have wasted too much time or materials. Then I will go to plan B as per MisterG suggests.
It gets quite challenging making the videos sometimes. My camera is a nice little Sony A6000 but the internal mic is terrible and there is no external mic socket. So I end up recording sound onto a separate device and syncing the video and sound up later. It does take the enjoyment out of machining sometimes and I must try to simplify the process and get a decent camera that records good sound.
Yeah I'm really happy with the Warco mill.
I best get back to some machining!
Cheers
@@learningturningmetal It does sound as though some investment in the your vlogging equipment would make your life a lot easier!
Thanks for sharing!
Cheers Craig!
I am about the same point as you with my Farm Boy development. However, I am taking a slightly different set of sequences with respect to the head. I turned the head and drilled the holes for the head screws. It was enough to install the O-ring, bolt the head head and test the sealing of the piston O-ring with the cylinder (piston, connecting rod, crankshaft, cylinder and frame all completed and assembled). Next, I drilled one of the valve cage holes. I installed one valve cage. I am awaiting material for the valves, but the objective is to turn one valve, install it with the spring and insure that is seals well. Once satisfied with that valve, I will repeat the process with the other valve. Hopefully, when done I will be confident that I have reasonable sealing of the piston O-ring, head O-ring, and valves. We will see..... Nice videos.
Hi Steven - sounds like a far better strategy than mine. Very well thought out. If you have any tips on making the valves please let me know.
Cheers
Andrew
(1) Joe Pieczynski has a great video on drilling long straight holes. Great for the valve hole in the valve cage.
(2) turn the valve stems in 3 steps,, each about 0.5" and a couple thousands oversized. Turn the outside firsdt. Then carefully take the last 2 thousands off with emery/600 grit wet/dry. Don't try to turn the full length.
(3) Another kind and wise soul said to face the valve seat at 44' and the valve itself at 45'. Gives a sharp edge that seat better.
(4) It is easier to turn the shaft to fit the hole than it is to bore the hold to fit the shaft. Especially with small diameters.
Tips I got from HMEM and The Hobby Machin ist web sites.
Hi Andrew, on the Kerzel Hit & Miss the valves are a two piece assembly. I used drill rod(silver steel) for the valve stems and stainless steel for the valve heads. They were silver soldered together. Turned out great. Regards Kevin
Hi Kevin - many thanks for reminding me. I will check your video out again.
All the best.
Andrew
Gday Andrew, the cylinder head turned out great, don’t be hard on yourself about the spark plug hole mate, I’m sure it will be fine and like you say once everything is bolted into place you will probably never notice it, you are doing a fantastic job of this engine, very enjoyable to watch, thank you, Take care. Matty
Hey thanks for the feedback Matty - I really appreciate it.
All the best.
Andrew
Setup to drill the spark plugs looked crazy but you know it worked!👍
Yeah it was a little crazy. There must be a better way of doing it. I maybe spend 10x more time on setup than I do milling.
Cheers
Andrew
Thanks for another really greate video from a rigging master, class of Joe Pie, little Blondihcks..
More than "well done",
At the time 11:22, drilling a larger hole in a smaller. That always happends I feel but it has given a good final bore.
Some time ago a machinist told it's okey to drill a pilot hole, 0.8 diameter of the kernel of the final drill size.
Drilling several, increasing holes, will affect the roundness of the final hole they said.
Time 13:10. The math professor in action.
Time 15:00 Whow! What equipment, what a setup.
Time 17:00. Biting my nails, not many of them left....
Time 17:15. Like to say more than "agree". What a setup.
Time 18:30. Soo much work and such critical work remaining. Too much thrilling for me.
I'm thinking of Larry Poindexter making clock works.
Poh, I'll open a can of beer.
Ha ha Stefan. I think I need a beer too!
Cheers!
Andrew
Coming along nicely! FWIW: I would turn the valves from solid: Set up with enough length of stock for the whole valve, then turn the stem to close to final diameter for about 1/4" at a time. When you get to the head, turn the angle on the sealing face, then polish the stem and part off. It's easier if you make the cages first, so you can tickle the valve stems down to a perfect fit in the valve guides before parting off. It worked for me, anyway! :)
Many thanks for the advice mate. Very much appreciated.
Cheers
Andrew
The screaming of the drill is because your rpm is to high.
And about pre-drilling a tip is if your end size is for example 20 mm drill you pre drill with a drill the size if the point off the 20 mm drill.
This way you use the maximum of the cutting edge with less change of chatter and breaking the cutting edge 😀
It's helpful to use an endmill and make a small flat when you have to drill at an angle it keeps your drill from wandering which is what i think happened to you. Great videos! It's coming along nicely.
Many thanks for the advice Jeremy. It makes a lot of sense. I've only got a limited range of metric end mills and no imperial ones - so it's not always easy.
All the best.
Andrew
Great job Andrew. Regarding turning down the stock so that it would go in the 3 Jaw with normal jaws. When I have that problem I use a 4 jaw independent as there is more travel on the jaws before having to reverse . I did think you were quite brave machining that stock without a centre for support though !
Ah good idea Andrew. I hadn't thought of that. I must try to remember that tip.
Cheers
Andrew
Hi Andrew,
Thanks for this video... It did get me thinking that that using the right tool for the right job is so important... What I mean by that is the size of chuck you used on the lathe was ideal to simply move to the milling machine... I think there is sometimes a tendency to think bigger is better by some people. It was also good to see you using the collet to hold the drill bit... Keep the videos coming.
Take care
Paul,,
Thanks Paul. The adaptor plate I made opens up a few more possibilities.
You take care too!
Andrew
Making the valves was challenging because the material deflects a lot cutting the shafts, and I used several spring passes.. I gradually reduced my cut and got within 0.005" and used emery cloth to get under 0.001". I tried using my steady rest but it just got in the way because the parts are so small.
Thanks for the info Tony - interesting times ahead I think!
Cheers
Andrew
I've made many model engine valves either by turning the stems down to dimension or by using the correct shaft size and sliver soldering the heads on. Final shaping done on the lathe with light cuts in a collect chuck. I prefer the latter as it gives better results and with less hassle. Good idea to predrill the stems for keepers before soldering as the material may become harden after.
Hi David - many thanks for the advice. I think I'm leaning towards the silver soldering approach. If it doesn't work out I've not lost a great deal in time and materials.
Thanks again.
Andrew
Cracking job Andrew. Really enjoy this series as well as your other stuff too. Keep it up!
Thanks for the encouragement Ian. Some challenging bits coming up I think!
All the best.
Andrew
Ps do what ever you want ok.
I enjoy your work. M
Cheers Mark!
All the best.
Andrew
@@learningturningmetal thanks for the reply. I'm trying to save up for a lathe. I rent a small room but for a extra £25 A week I have a 8 by 6 foot shed.
So that's ok.
Don't get out in the shed as much as I want. But I will. M
As always nice job..👍👍👍👍👍
I was wondering why you didn't use a regular lead / tin solder.
I have used 50/50 solder many times to accomplish what you did, only on much larger parts
and it worked quite well, and separated much easier.
I am enjoying watching your progress.
Good Luck.
Tim
Thanks Tim. I maybe need to experiment a little with soft solder.
All the best.
Andrew
Inspirational Andrew
Ha ha Craig - I'm not sure inspirational is the right word - but I got there in the end.
Cheers
Andrew
You could drill a slightly larger hole, centred on the plug hole, to disguise the offcentredness.
Yeah I might have a go at that Chris if it keeps on bugging me. Mind you it will probably take me a couple of hours just to get the head back at 20 degrees!
Cheers
Andrew
Opening up the spark plug recess (at 8:50) will decrease the compression ratio. Hopefully, this won't be significant.
Crumbs Chris - I never thought about that. Fingers crossed and all that.
Cheers
Andrew
Brilliant!
Does the head of the milling machine tilt? would have been easier to get the angle for the spark plug.
Hi Bob - yeah it does. I didn't think about it at the time. Only negative would be getting it back perpendicular with the table after. Maybe next time! Thanks for pointing it out.
Cheers
Andrew
With brass or bronze. Full size drilling. Or blunt the drill bit. Bronze is snatchy. M
Thanks for the advice Mark.
Hi Andrew, I share your frustration with the spark plug being off-centre. Could you open up the counter-bore slightly to re-centralise it about the spark plug? Yes, a bit of a nuisance, but at least you won't be constantly looking at it and thinking, bugger.
Hi Steve - I think I'll see what it looks like on final assembly. If it still bugs me I'll have another go.
Cheers
Andrew
Andrew, there is a TH-cam contributor,
W5CYF / TinkerJohn, who has a series on a hit and miss engine and he shows how he made and lapped valves, You might check his videos out to see what he did in manufacturing his valves.
Concerning the drill bit that was noisy, it may have been slightly dull, or you may have been running it a little too fast.
I hope you aren't too hard on yourself about the recess for the spark plug. I doubt if anyone will notice as they are marveling over what you have done on that engine.
Hi Robert - many thanks for the info - I will check out TinkerJohn. I think you are right about the noisy drill - both blunt and running too fast. I think I need to start replacing some of my drill bits.
I hope you are correct about the spark plug recess - assuming I ever get this engine to run. Plenty of challenges yet to come.
All the best.
Andrew
Very nice Andrew. Maybe would have been a prime opportunity to try out that pivoting head? Just saying. Well till next time.
Hi John - you've got me thinking now. Maybe I missed a great opportunity to experiment. Maybe the only drawback would have been getting the head back exactly perpendicular to the table. Or maybe there is an easy way?
Cheers
Andrew
I have seen some dual indicators in a mount that goes into the spindle to tram it back. Should be pretty simple procedure.
Ah I know what you mean I think. There is always something else to buy in this hobby.
Cheers
Andrew
Buy or make???
See Doubleboost. For silver soldering bronze bearings. He’s just done a great project using this method.
Thanks John. I'm subbed to Doubleboost but I hadn't realised he had covered silver soldering.
I will check him out!
Cheers
Andrew
You can make valves from one piece of 4140 and heat treat them where it counts.
Thanks for the advice - I will investigate!
Cheers
Andrew
Love your work, lower youre speeds while drilling.
Thanks for the tip Mark. I think some of my drills are becoming blunt too which doesn't help.
Cheers
Andrew
I'm no expert but I though if you pilot drill, the pilot drill diameter should be no larger than the width of the web on the final drill? Can't remember where I heard that but I know that whenever I pilot drill with a size bigger than the web, I get that vibration. If it's in a drill press & I'm not holding the piece down correctly, it shakes, rattles & rolls!!!
I like the way you switch from imperial to metric.
Luckily I'm of a age where I'm bye numerous. M
Ha ha - sometimes I don't have a choice. I don't have any imperial end mills and my metric ones are pretty limited too!
I just have to remember the magic number 25.4.
All the best.
Andrew
Please don't skin any cats. 😉 M