Hydrogen; Nature's Fuel
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2024
- This documentary tells the story of hydrogen through a series of intriguing interviews from those working on cutting-edge hydrogen technologies. The program explains to viewers every step of the process, including how hydrogen is created, how it is transported and dispensed, and how it is used in fuel cell vehicles and other end uses
Tim Lipman; Research Co-Director, University of California, Berkley
Michael Holmes; Deputy Associate Director, Research Energy & Environmental Research Center
Gerry Groenewold; Director, Energy & Environmental Research Center
Ghassan Sleiman; Engineer, Hydrogenics USA
Tom Erickson; Associate Director, Research Energy & Environmental Research Center
Ron Harper; CEO & General Manager, Basin Electric Power Cooperative
Dakota Gasification Company, Great Plains Synfuels Plant Beulah, North Dakota
Nathan Seigel; Researcher, Sandia National Laboratories
Solar Tower & Heliostat Field, Albuquerque, New Mexico
Michael McGowan; Head of Hydrogen Solutions, Linde North America
Magog, Quebec
Michael Gagne; Plant Manager, Linde North America
Dev Patel; Manager, Kraus Global
Kraus Global, Winnipeg, Manitoba
Scott Bailey; Vice President, Kraus Global
Morm Estey; Former President & CEO, Kraus Global
Nuvera Fuel Cells, Billerica, Massachusetts
Roberto Cordaro; President, Nuvera Fuel Cells
James C. Cross III; Vice President, Nuvera Fuel Cells
Darryl Pollica; Chief Engineer, Nuvera Fuel Cells
Scott Blanchet; Director of Product Development, Nuvera Fuel Cells
Chris Ensco; Chief Engineer, Nuvera Fuel Cells
Altergy Systems, Folsom, California
Mickey Oros; Senior Vice President, Altergy Systems
SYSCO, Grand Rapids, Michigan
Darin Van Duyn; Vice President of Operations, SYSCO Corporation
Toro, Bloomington, Minnesota
Jack Gust; Chief Engineer, The Toro Company
Sierra Nevada Brewery, Chico, California
Ken Grossman; President, Sierra Nevada Brewing Co.
California Fuel Cell Partnership, West Sacramento, California
Catherine Dunwoody; Executive Director, California Fuel Cell Partnership
Tom Cackette; Chief Deputy Executive Officer, California Air Resources Board
John Tillman; Program Manager, Volkswagen of America, Inc.
Michael Smith; Service Manager, Ford Motor Company
Marshall Miller; Senior Development Engineer University of California, Davis
Peter Friebe; General Manager, Daimler AG
New Flyer, Winnipeg, Manitoba
Brydon Owen; Group Leader, New Flyer
AC Transit, Oakland, California
Douglas Byrne; Project Manager, AC Transit
Jamie Levin, Director, Ac Transit
Icelandic New Energy Ltd., Reykjavik, Iceland
Jon Bjorn Skulason; General Manager, Icelandic New Energy Ltd.
National Center for Hydrogen Technology
www.undeerc.org/ncht
National Energy Technology Laboratory
www.netl.doe.gov
Producer: Bob Dambach
Narrator: Joyce Eisenbraun
Editor: Ann Hall Anderson
Videographers: Dave Geck, Barbra Gravel, Travis Jensen, Frode Tilden
Animation: Tim Eissinger
Graphics: Ann Hall Anderson, Earl Battle, Ben Stommes
Production Manager: Barbra Gravel
Closed Captioning: Armour Captioning
For the EERC
Management: Thomas Erickson, Michael Holmes
Writers: Tera Buckley, Dan Daly, Kirk Williams
Special Thanks: Ed Klunder, Dan Driscoll, Dan Cicero, Bonnie Dowdell, National Energy Technology Laboratory, British Columbia Transit, Air Liquide
Executive Producers: Bob Dambach, Michael Holmes
Can’t believe this video was filmed 10 years ago. This is a fun and clean method.
Also only about 30% efficient. That's why we never going to use it.
And no one uses it at scale for a reason. Inefficient, dangerous and just plain stupid.
And went nowhere. Cost killed it. Inefficiency is inherent.
THANK YOU
THIS IS GREAT SCIENCE.!
MANY TYPES OF INDUSTRIES CAN LEARN FROM THIS.
yea it is basically a useless research of something that will never work.
"No energy system can produce sum useful energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it.
This universal truth applies to all energy systems.
Energy, like time, flows from past to future."
I think we are on the same page. Pushing hydrogen would be just fine if we could gusher it out of the ground like oil, or collect it on panels like solar energy, but that is not the case. There is no free and clear hydrogen on earth. It is all oxidized or chemically bound in a Lower energy state, and the only way to make it into useful fuel is in its self cumbersome and energy intensive. In the case of taking water and making it into hydrogen by separating the hydrogen from the oxygen, more energy is required then will ever be utilized when the hydrogen is once again “burned.“ This according to the second law of thermodynamics, and there is no exceptions to this. Hydrogen can be gotten from chemical compounds that exist in nature such as natural gas. This is not a form of oxidized fuel, so the hydrogen can be gotten for a relative bargain. Still, we are left with piles of carbon, carbon black as a byproduct, not necessarily bad either, but not something we want to burn because that would produce carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas. So far it looks like stripping hydrogen from hydrocarbons such as oil and natural gas, and then trying to logistically put the hydrogen where it is needed, is not going to be as economical as solar photovoltaic electricity and wind power, which travels by simple electrons over wires. I mean good luck to the hydrogen people, and really I wish they could be successful somehow, but not at some hidden cost to the environment And then pretend that we have created “clean fuel.”
i cant explain how much this helped me with my extended project qualification at school. great documentary
There Fool Cells.
@@Cars-N-Jets an expected comment!
Thank you for the video.
Hydrogen vehicles & fuel is the future!
4630, excellent work. I'm glad to see you already have everything started and all this progress
Hydrogen with air (oxygen) is incredibly explosive. Platinum is such an effective catalyst for this explosive reaction that a Pt " spark" plug can be used (without electricity) to run an engine on H2 and air. 30 years ago Platinum jewelery was the main use for Platinum.!!
Pic op and
@@prestonkorell3561
Great info re hydrogen
very good comment, you beat me to it, and i never thought about freezing
Good for you fellows 👍 THANKS
Wow! What an incredible and well made presentation! That you for sharing it.
That didn't age well!
Mostly lies
super like my graduated project about hydrogen production from water electrolysis can any one help me to find process flow sheet and mass and energy balances because the subject not easy .
Am I the only person a little nervous sitting on 10,000 PSI compressed H2? Other than that, it's perfect!
+Frank Pereny There are low pressure H2 gas containers using hydrate (since 70s!!!), just like LPG but safer because of their low pressure. Oil companies made sure that hydrogen is not used today. There is also that concern of hydrogen beeing smell free, but gas leak ignitions can be prevented by detectors.
watch?v=n0a5IXjh8Mg
TimasmoraviaOil companies want us to use hydrogen. A hydrogen car uses almost twice as much fossil fuel to go a mile than a fossil fuel car. So, if everybody went hydrogen, the oil companies would double their sales. Why do you think George Bush and his oil buddies wanted a hydrogen economy?
There is a word for what you describe and that word is:
Bomb. Just one such bomb goes off and hydrogen fuel cells go the way of hydrogen filled airships. As you renter the bus please put on your fireproof suit and parachute and may god have mercy on your soul. However rest assured that as a result of the explosion that kills you there will be lots of water.
My guess is that hydrogen fuel cells and lightning or any spark may not be the ideal or most joyous combination
Hydrogen can be separated from water with a hydrogen generator,it's a $200-$300 modification to the vehicle,it's hydrogen on demand.Oil companies disapprove of this because they can't put a meter on it,it's free to the user.
@@bugsbunny3488 I’m an engineer. Hydrogen generators require a lot of electricity or steam. The conversion of energy would be very in efficient from electric to hydrogen back to electricity in the fuel cell.
What you are describing is essentially driving a Tesla with a diesel generator strapped to it.
Hydrogen is the most available resource but the difficulty is to capture and store it as a usable form. This is the entire key information given here.
but that technology can be developed to be cheaper over time......once this happens, hydrogen is the best option by far....nothing comes close....so its a no brainer.
@@jokers7890 are you planning on extracting it from the fruit of the Hydrogen tree, because that should be easy, otherwise there's a big loss in efficiency and you'd be better off using the primary energy source and not the storage and transfer medium, which is what Hydrogen really is.
@@jokers7890 It's a failure. We have lots of water, but very little hydrogen. It takes lots of electricity to make H2 from water, and it's inefficient and costly to make, ship, store, and carry.
I believe Hydrogen is the answer for our fuel needs .
You should do more in depth research on the subject matter. Hints: Hydrogen production methods/sources, Energy required to produce Hydrogen, ...
Btw. skip the HHO snake oil sales pitches if you see them
I’m no expert on the subject ( not by a long shot) but at an industrial scale, there could be fuel cells at the wind and solar power power plants. The biggest issue with these power sources is the intermittent nature of power production. It is so bad that in the middle of the day, when solar is peaking and wind is blowing, the oversupply is a big problem. Demand is actually lower. It drives the price of power down to near zero at a wholesale level. This is where the power could be converted into hydrogen and stored at the solar farm or wind farm. Then, at early night or low / no wind speed times (peak power consumption time when power is at peak price) the stored hydrogen could be reconverted into electricity and continue to feed the grid and buffer the biggest problem with these renewables. I know there are huge thermodynamic losses involved at both the cracking and consuming of the hydrogen. But hey, the power at midday is dirt cheap n peak power is super expensive. Modern gen 4 nuclear power can provide clean, safe, (yes safe. Do your homework before arguing) CO2 free base power, the renewables could supplement.
Tantalizingly close to prime time well it should be ready in 2020
I am convinced we'll get to quite efficient and clean ways of working with (or via) hydrogen as an energy medium
Energy medium and not actually an Energy source.
no we won't, there are thermodynamic limits, currently whole hydrogen electrolysis/fuel cell cycle is only about 30% efficient.
@@jeffsaffron5647 But it can be used as a very handy INTERMEDIARY carrier of energy when EXCESS electricity produced during 'peak hours' would be used to 'make' it, right? Like one would use that excess power to charge a battery, except for instead, we produce something more like actual fuel with it on such moments. That way, were can store excess electricity that otherwise would go unused and save it for moments we would need that extra energy (which by times also happen to be those moments that 'green' production is low or out).
@@harrickvharrick3957 Yes but you will only get back 30% of what you stored. Why not just charge the batteries? Sure those can't hold charge forever but usually all the excess energy is used in 48hr anyway.
@@jeffsaffron5647 Is that be cause of inefficiency of the electrolytical process or is it be cause of the fact hydrogen requires a special type of storage, and dependent of the way it will be applied may need to get transported physically?
The world really needs more Eco Heroes 🌍❤️
That isn't Hydrogen.
This world doesn’t need an Eco Hero. It needs a saviour; and his name is Jesus Christ. Turn to Him and be truly saved.
@@mrnoedahl Amen
"Hydrogen" as expressed here, is NOT a
power source, but a delivery system
Of course it would only by power source if you can mine pure hydrogen somewhere. But since hydrogen reacts with everything there is no non-binded hydrogen on Earth.
An expensive, impractical delivery system.
I was surprised, I used to drive truck and pick up at the 'Sierra Nevada Brewery'. I was puzzled why the brewery was so clean. Usually, main stream breweries are like steel plants when it comes to operations.
Cool
because main stream are punks who shlep out garbage with no respect for the pigs who swill it like hogs at the trough , if the outside of the bottled poison is dirty , JUST THINK WHAT TOXIC GARBAGE THEY PUT INSIDE THE BOTTLE !!!!!
For people who don't know how it works, links in this form "watch..." need to be added to the end of the youtube url in your browser (just like every other link on TH-cam).
how safe are these vehicles ? what are the dangers in collision. looks exciting technology
With the hydrogen generator there is no risk of an explosion from hydrogen.the system only produces the hydrogen that it uses,at the same time.you don't carry compressed hydrogen.
I love this concept! I wish we would set up the infrastructure for it then manufacture vehicles to use it.
One issue- what effect is there if this becomes our main transportation fuel, will the water expelled cause icing of roads in cold weather? Anyone?
No. That will not be a problem. The volume of water is tiny. It is stored on the vehicle until the driver picks a spot to dump it.
I believe the "exhaust" is not only water vapor it also contains CO2. And if I remember correctly, we currently have a greenhouse gas (CO2) problem. But I may be wrong
Not here in South Texas...
Any combustion engine can be fueled by hydrogen without any damage caused by the hydrogen .
its tiny amount ! far more icing occur due to the bed weather in northern countries and ice tend to evaporate
Yes hydrogen fuel is a step to create new healthy and happiest world for now and next generation Dear friend just think how many reasons fuel problem will be solved by Hydrogen Fuel
1. Car
2. Bus
2. Shipping
3. Industry's
4. Nasa rockets
5. Restaurant kitchens & home Kitchen's
& much more .....
Dear friend hydrogen fuel cell is a step to build a new world of happiness and 0% carbon in the Air Avery One wants clean Air we can to stop climate change problems in the world by using hydrogen fuel ☺
Now 2021 still waiting.
5353, yeah we run the similar type of engine process in ships all the time. It just wasn't completed on solely hydroelectric power. In a lot of circumstances. You were needing gas but you shouldn't because you should just be able to have a solar panel or a wind turbine system installed like breathers in the rutters on the inside of the ship powered by steam power generated automatically just with the electrical current and the fact that that portion is sealed. The pressure build up is how you get the energy out of the friction from the steam bouncing around
I'm definitely gonna start buying a lot more Sierra Nevada beer now. That's one of the most forwarding thinking breweries I've heard of.
Just make the bier. Stop the social commentary
Much better than battery powered cars, trucks, buses!
So far the biggest accomplishment of hydrogen is slowing down EV developpement.
It managed to stall it for many years, if it weren’t for Tesla we would still be stuck talking about it without much to show for it.
Advantage of H2: very light, no pollution.
Disadvantage: very low efficiency, very hard to compress, store, transfer and very explosive. Very expensive to setup fueling stations
A relatively small amount of hydrogen can be added in with the normal gasoline and air mixture to greatly improve the combustion dynamics/flame front speed to insure that more of the fuel is burned/used to power the engine. In short the small, lightweight, high-heating value hydrogen acts as a catalyst for combustion.
Don't.these.clowns.know.that.iceland.has.been..using.this.tecknonlagy.for.years.so.wake.up.ask.them.they.have.all.the.nessasary.tecķnolagy..ha..ha..
So.swallow.your.pride.and.ask
.them..
This would mean that if a relatively small amount of hydrogen is added to the usual petrol-air mixture, the result is a strong combustion improvement, ensuring that more fuel is burned / used to drive the engine, which means instead of the current max. 30% efficiency could come from 50-60%. I understand this as lower fuel consumption by about 50% of current use.
This means 50% less fuel consumption and greenhouse gas emissions.
Correct me if I'm wrong, please.
there is unburned fuel because you don´t want to high temperature because of nox
@@fabianseewald7884 yeah, I agree and don’t think you want to burn it when you can just convert it directly into electricity, with a fuel cell.
All you re going to do is get KONCKING as gas engines are designed to be at max combusting all the time. And new computer engines will RETARD SPARK once a knock is detected negating any benefots of adding hydrogen to fuel
BTW, hydrogen is a GAS and CANNOT be added to fuel
Basically a hybrid propulsion system for a paradigm of some sort of reality of our future that wouldn't be too 'abrupt nor to Ill conceived' with common sense of our natural resources...
Hydrogen + Oxygen = WATER
Excerpt from my book:
21.8 HYDROGEN
There are some people who are keen on the hydrogen economy. The biggest problem with hydrogen is that of hydrogen embrittlement. As hydrogen enters a metal it reduces the shear strength of the metal which means the force which can cause deformation of the metal reduces. The greater the amount of H2 within metal, the weaker the metal. This is a serious problem because in hydrogen cars, the H2 is stored at 350-700atm (one atm being the normal atmospheric pressure we experience). Some may think that the insides of the container can be painted to prevent H2 from entering the metal but that is like putting a polymer net to hold the H2 within. But which net can hold H2 atoms which are the smallest atoms in the universe? Currently H2 are stored in a fiberglass/aramid or carbon fiber container with a metal liner (aluminum or steel) to enable it to hold the 350-700atm pressure. H2 can leak through the fiberglass/aramid and enter into the aluminum or steel surrounding it to weaken the pressure holding capability. Some may argue the Apollo rockets used H2 fuel cells to generate electricity but that was only for one time use.
H2 is extracted from gas, oil and coal. 75% of H2 in the world is from gas. The next major source of H2 is coal. The cost of the fuel is between 45-75% of H2 production cost. Only 0.1% of H2 comes from electrolysis of water because it takes 50kW of electricity to produce 1kg of H2 which can go (1kg = 6.42L, 6.42L X 18 km (typical car)) =116 km assuming the efficiency being equal to petrol. A typical home is limited to using only 5kW per hour. Therefore, it will take the maximum power consumption of 50kW / 5kW=10 homes with all air-conditioners, washing machines and dryers switched on for an hour for a H2 car to travel 116km. The distance from LA to San Francisco is about 614km. Therefore, it will take 614km / 116km = 5L to cover that distance which is 50 kW X 5L = 250kW of electricity. Which is equal to (250kW / 5kW per home) = 50 homes’ maximum electricity usage for an hour to enable one car to travel from LA to San Francisco. Incidentally a typical modern H2 car’s tank can hold 200L at 700 atm.
In conclusion, those who still think H2 cars are the route to take is equivalent to being at a junction where the left road (H2 route) has all these potholes and boulders while the right road (electric car route) is clear but still deciding to take the left road. Added to the numbers in the last paragraph, the fuel production efficiency of electric cars is 94% while that of H2 vehicles is 68%. Comparatively the fuel production efficiency of today’s petrol cars is only 55% because there are lots of losses from drilling the oil out, processing it and finally burning it in a small car engine. If the same petrol is burnt in a large combustion engine located at the power company, it is much more efficient because the larger the engine, the higher the efficiency. Plus, there is economy of scale in the process (a huge factory can produce a part at less cost than a small factory). Besides all the pollution controls can be installed in the chimney of the power company’s combustion engine and if these are installed in each car, the car will be too expensive.
Hydrogen is the fuel of the future and always will be.
Exactly
What are the waste products of gasification? Please/thank you
Carbon dioxide
If electrolysis the by product from water is oxygen.
@@radiomanz117 95% of hydrogen is produced from a fossil fuel base. Very very little from clean solar electrolysis most of this is produced from coal/gas fired power stations. Fresh water is not limitless and salt water corrodes electrodes like crazy. specialised electrodes are excessively expensive and don't last long anyway. Dream on.
756 If I missed something, please explain why or what you wish we had it for better that I missed or that I didn't accommodate for
how to compress :?
Hydrogen could be very good but in terms of cost, how is the cost afterall? For the same amount of energy suplied.
Wow wee.. It's catching on.
The big down side for vehicles is that even liquid hydrogen isn't very dense.
Batteries have the potential for a greater power density than liquid hydrogen and bulk matters as well as weight.
Look into solid state hydrides
It is not true that chemical cell batteries can ever have the energy density of hydrogen. Not at all, not even close. But there are all kinds of logistical problems with hydrogen power, and this has been shown in mini videos, especially with the energy conversion cycle.
Chemical cell batteries have many advantages over liquid hydrogen or gaseous hydrogen fuel storage. Liquid hydrogen Hass to be vented, so you will lose energy over time while your car sits idle, you are just venting hydrogen all of the time, and that is the only way you get a small fuel tank
Gaseous hydrogen requires a large fuel tank. This is high-pressure and very dangerous, even worse than gasoline fuel tanks.
In every case of hydrogen you are going to have to purchase it from someone just like you get gasoline today for internal combustion engine cars.
In contrast, chemical cell batteries can be recharged easily with electricity, at home, at work, at a recharging station, from photovoltaic cells on the vehicle itself, in sum, by so many convenient ways without having to necessarily even purchase electricity, or to purchase it at a bargain price, and likely sourced from a renewable energy system, such as wind power or solar power.
It is now the year 2021, so I’m 11 years after this video was produced, and it is clear that hydrogen is not going to be the universal fuel, Stead it will be electricity gained by other means such as I have already said, wind power, solar photovoltaic, even nuclear fission, and possibly nuclear fusion in the future. But it will not be chemical hydrogen fuel.
The big joke here is that they aren’t telling the truth at the beginning of this video. Water is not fuel. Water is spent fuel, it is burnt fuel. It has no ability whatsoever to manifest additional energy. It has to be re-energized by the chemical process of reducing, that means putting more energy into it then will ever be gotten back out when it is used as hydrogen fuel. It is kind of hopeless when it is more sensible to just use the energy that you would use to produce hydrogen to do useful things otherwise.
Liquid hydrogen has huge energy density it is a densest form of chemical energy there is. Problem is to keep it liquid you need to keep it bellow 20 Kelvin (-423 ºF; -253 ºC) which is nearly impossible. Hydrogen as a gas has very low energy at atmospheric pressure . Toyota Mirai has 10 000 PSI (700 bar) in its tanks to carry any reasonable amount of H2. Over all weight and range is comparable to Tesla 3 so there is no real benefit in using Hydrogen over just a lithium batteries (except maybe faster refuel).
@@aaronlegend14 No, those carry very little hydrogen.
@@jeffsaffron5647
Munro, the electric vehicle specialist has found a company that has the ability to store hydrogen in a vastly more compact form.
Best to look Munro up on yt for that info.
I believe just over 1200 Watt hrs / kg for the system. 3×better than batteries. Not sure about the energy volumetric density. Does not change the energy efficiency loss.
It's interesting to see how hydrogen and fuel cells were made/used 9 years ago. I wonder if they have advanced as much as battery technology?
So far, it seems like electric vehicles based on batteries are moving ahead.
Although, Japan is investing heavily in hydrogen cars too.
As you can see on EV car specs over the last few years, range per lithium battery volume is improving but it is very very slow to improve. Perhaps Hydrogen can improve it's negatives more quickly then lithium ion battery. Will see in next few years. Wish I knew the future.
@@sevencostanza3931 I'm sure the hydrogen process will advance. However, will it be good enough, fast enough?
The switch from ICE (internal combustion engine) to BEV (battery electric vehicle) cars is projected to be about 80% in 5 years. That's a lot of momentum. So, it looks like if we end up with FCEVs (fuel cell electric vehicles) , it will be through BEVs first.
@@sevencostanza3931 The main issue is not the use of hydrogen in the vehicle. The problems are hydrogen production and distribution.
Currently, the main clean way to produce hydrogen is through electrolysis using renewable electricity, green hydrogen. Then it has to be trucked or piped to where it will be distributed.
It's currently much more efficient to take that green electricity and instead store it during times of generation for times of use.
only toyota
It basically failed... reason being whole hydrogen fuel cell cycle is only about 30% efficient. So you need to make about 3x as much energy for water electrolysis then you get from burning the hydrogen in a fuel cell. It is a sad reality but batteries are just better with about 70% efficiency
Less expenses, Raw materials everywhere.No transmission loss.
How is this practical for freezing weather temps ? What is this done to keep the water from freezing ?
It comes out at boiling temperature. The residual heat dries the exhaust before the water can freeze.
This is okay when the engine is running but when the car is put away for long term parking the water will freeze. How do you get around that ? The only thing I can think of is to park it in a heated garage or have an electric engine heater. Do you have any other ideas ?
@@robertmckinley2886 Use of electric heaters under engines is widespread in eastern Europe and Russia (for example), where winter temperatures can frequently be as low as -40deg C (which oddly enough is also -40deg F!).
Thank you for the reply. I already know about engine heaters. How is this gong to do any good when you're away from home visiting somewhere ????
I can get behind this , it makes sense battery is dirty
When I was making hydrogen or browns gas for my can, I worked out you can't make energy from nothing, so I add a solar panel into the back window to run the unit it worked well. I have since sold that car.
Put a wind turbine on roof to generate power
@Allen Loser im saying to take all the load off alternator and battery to make whatever hho gas
@Allen Loser Allen help us out what is the answer.
@Allen Loser did you hear about stan myers?? Btw i made small hho tank installed in my older diesel Volkswagen it did feel more peppier exhaust gases smelt like a propane vehicle little improvement in fuel mileage
Basic idea about hydrogen fuel cell cycle is this. Water -> electrolysis (energy in) -> hydrogen / oxygen -> fuel cell -> oxidation reduction (energy out) -> water. The problem is electrolysis is being only about 70% efficient and fuel cell about 50%. Together you get round trip efficiency of the hydrogen cycle at about 30-40%. Meaning you need to make 3x the electricity to get hydrogen from water then you get from from it in the fuel cell.
Plus there are other issues with storing hydrogen. To carry sufficient amount it needs to be stored at very high pressures with heavy tanks. If you count in the weight of the tanks energy density per kg is similar to lithium batteries. Only real advantage being H2 refuel is faster then battery recharge. And for this alone I don't see hydrogen a good way to go.
To fight climate change and get rid of fossil fuel a lot of things needs to happen.
Energy generation:
- Mass adoption of nuclear power, in right areas adoption of renewables
Energy storage from renewables:
- Hydro pump, battery farms, even hydrogen and gravity batteries
Logistics
- Personal vehicles will likely become electric with batteries
- Trucks will be electric but with much shorter range, long range transport will need to be carried by trains
- For cargo ships best option would be small nuclear reactor, military ships and subs use these for decades. (check Rolls Royce SNR currently in development)
- Planes are most challenging due to weight limitations, some new fuel/engines will likely need to be invented. Like adding sodium to carbon based fuel will not produce carbon dioxide.
CH4 + 2Na + 2 1/2 O2 -> Na2CO3 + 2H2O
This reaction is not as efficient as burning CH4 (methane) directly and no engines capable of mixing fuel with sodium exist, also sodium is currently very expensive. But it is definitely a thing scientists currently look into.
I ended up watching the whole thing. We don't have commercial deposits of hydrogen. In every example in this video NG was used a feedstock to create hydrogen. It's better than burning it, but it's still a fossil fuel and is still subject to depletion.
There is a power source that can be used for any thing that is powered the difference is the tools we are useing for the work is the issue .
Hydrogen is perfect fuel for ships!
I didn't know that you use the metric system in the US ?
drj Westfield,Wisconsin can you make hydrogen into a solid and then put it on a cd and then have a cd player to take the hydrogen to run a vehicle?
Hydrogen sounds like the perfect solution, especially when used with fuel cell technology. However, isn't it true that whatever hydrogen escapes, it rises beond our atmosphere and is permanently lost which could eventually destroy life on this planet? The other problem is hydrogen's extreme explosive potential.
these are just some of the problems with pure hydrogen as a fuel. think of the derigible HINDENBURG!
Can they make a "closed-circuit" unit where the water is recycled and reuse the hydrogen from the exhaust?
The use of the forklifts, would there be water all over the warehouses?
Great video! Thank you
You would need actual energy to get the Hydrogen to separate from its bond.
@@richtomlinson7090 solar panel on the roof?
@@NJDREW222 probably not enough power or time, to convert solar immediately to separate the water through electrolysis.
If you listen to the video, they are mostly talking about using fossil fuels in different ways and using Hydrogen as an energy storage and transfer system, with very little pollution at the use side.
This video is old and they are still working on improving things.
My late father worked with Hydrogen back in the 60s and up to his retirement in the late 80s and they still have a long way to go.
Energy to make energy is a catch 22 in it's process for use.
The inventor Stanely Meyer was able to convert water into a combustible gas (hydrogen and oxygen) right on the vehicle. It is then immediately burned in an internal combustion engine. The inventor Dennis Klien invented a similar process. These technologies are suppressed because it would destroy big oil.
The milage is the engine and the electrical system that powers the coils to burn the fuel .
HYDROGEN ENERGY thanks to Supporting Government Scientific Go Blessed to your hard working so be it.
the ocean is mostly hydrogen, H2O, we should build and research this technology, so much free and available fuel.......
where is all the platinum and gold going to c ome from?
Because you don't them anymore. The video is from 2011.
Yes please, hurry up!
I hope nobody takes my quote hydrogen is the blood of the universe
this is my intellectual property at work.
Dimethyl ether (DME) and ammonia have a number of qualities that make the respective fuels an excellent carrier molecule for transporting hydrogen to power a new generation of fuel-cell electric vehicles or Two stroke opposed Compression Ignition engines (e.g., Achates) powering PHEV. This video highlights very expensive infrastructure vs. ammonia and DME.
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And if all that works would not it be possible for the military unit to be able to make its own hydrogen from the air for its own fuel as it travels look at that fantastic advantage?
It's a very interesting documentary but I have a question. what's the difference between the natural gas and hydrogen gas? why is necessary produce hydrogen if we have natural gas? Thanks
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Hydrogen is the BEST fuel per weight and volume basis. It's gravimetric and volumetric energy density is the best on this planet. Oxidizing, or burning Hydrogen results in water and a by product and is non- polluting as long as oxygen is used as the oxidizer. The trouble is that both Hydrogen and oxygen when stored next to each other are a risk. Most fuel cell systems try to use Air in place of oxygen to avoid the costs of compressed oxygen. That means support equipment that must be designed and built to provide at least, five times the air movement as the oxygen is only 20.7% by volume of the atmosphere. Then there is the cooling issues that need to be designed for. But the Hydrogen Fuel cell system, in general, has a greater promise to solve the green energy issues than any battery system.
I heard that about Iceland changing the energy source ,can you please tell me a web where i can find this information,thanks!
Me too
Information is the key, I agree.
The energy loss rate is to high for public automobile use but it might be good for factory use and stationary equipment use
Yeah... maybe but why not just use batteries. There are new batteries being developed targeting issues of Lithium batteries such as limited number of cycles and self-continuous discharge.
It all sounds good but what are your hydrogen fuel cells like on impact such as a crash head on?
I don't know the answer to that but I do know what happened to a friend in the back seat of a car that was rear ended and burned up
When electrolysis is the way to go, gasification is just another way for fossil fuel industry to hang on to power.
Your wages enslave you by providing the 1% with revenue streams that keep them in power and you poor. they own you, if that offends you they will turn off your income or just kill you, like they did to Stanley Myers and Tesla.
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This video is based on one HUGE misunderstanding:
Hydrogen is NOT REALLY used as an energy carrier, but a s technical gas.
As of today, hydrogen is only utilized for space flight business (NASA et al.),
making of ammonia for fertilizer, removing sulfur from gasoline, production of semiconductors, glass and food manufacturing. But not by the private end-consumer him/herself.
10 years on and where is this in our lives 🤷🏽 . ????
How wet would the roads be if all cars were hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. Would there be a problem with icing with water coming out of the exhaust in below freezing climates?
What you won't hear from these manufacturers is one word about the consumer home based units where your "closed loop" hydrogen/electricity genset provides all your family/dwelling and appliance requirements. each household is independent from his neighbor yet connected to the grid providing the excess power the grid for those moments when yourself or anyone on occasion needs more than their home unit supplies
how do we get all the energy we need from hydrogen? it takes energy to produce it, no?
Yes, Massive. Exactlly.
Hydrogen used for fusion is the fuel of the Sun, and many people hope that humanity may be able to use it that way, too. So far, the only thing we've accomplished is H-bombs, energy certainly, but only useful for destroying things.
Hydrogen as burned in fuel cells or internal or external combustion engines is simply a medium of storage. You put a lot of energy in, e.g. to separate copious hydrogen from water, and you can then get a high fraction of it, not all of it, back.
Methane from natural gas is also a source of hydrogen. This is a gaseous petrochemical. Burning it is in principle no different from burning other petro-carbons.
@@TheDavidlloydjones "you can then get a high fraction of it, not all of it, back" No, you actually get a small fraction of it back. The cycle from electrolysis -> compression -> storage -> transportation -> fuel cell -> electricity leave you with about 1/3 of the original source. Tesla EV batteries have 90% or better efficiency.
Using wind and solar power to use electrolysis to separate the hydrogen from water. Expense is irrelevant. Money can always be made available to do what needs to be done. Government can fund it and stop subsidizing fossil fuels. Wouldn’t it be a shame for the human race to die out because it thought that it couldn’t afford to save itself.
@@Herbwise that's a long way off because electrolysis is a very expensive way to get Hydrogen. Much cheaper to use Methane, so nearly all our Hydrogen will come from dirty processing of Methane. The Hydrogen thing is just another greenwashing attempt by oil companies to sell us even more fossil fuels.
Much more efficient and green to use solar and wind to put electricity into a battery, and we already have an infrastructure for that and it works.
@@Seehart Maybe that is partially true but only for the production phase. Once you have it it is nearly 100% efficient, with Teslas you are mostly busy transporting the weight of that battery! That should be taken into the equation too!
What's the chances that it won't freeze in the Northern region like -30 f?
I want to use solar but would like to be able to use a fuel cell to generate power at out home when the sun is not available.
Is there any danger of causing flooding from all the water emissions?
No. Besides there will never be hydrogen cars on the road. They are extinct.
@highvoltagefeathers The idea is to eventually move to a renewable energy source such as hydro or wind or solar. There will always be energy loss whether you make hydrogen with electrolysis or if you charge up a bunch of lead-acid batteries. I'm sure that other technologies will be available in parallel like oil from plants, ethanol from plants, ethanol by reforming using solar heat, etc.
Hydrogen is very combustible and if stored in a safe manor can be used for several different uses .
Yes but hydrogen electrolysis-fuel cell cycle is only about 30% efficient. Changing a lithium battery is about 85-99% efficient depending how fast you are charging.
Nuclear battery can run for More than thousands of year without recharging but we don't use only in space program never homes. Because besides efficiency safety is most important for common man application. Experts are using hydrogen for making fertilizer and various fuel and chemistry application.
Since the true costs of fossil fuels are not quantified--in fact, they are subsidized, it is difficult for hydrogen to get traction, but ultimately it will be the energy storage medium of the future. At some point the obvious consequences of contemporary methods will be understood, but we're still in a rather ignorant stage of understanding, although we see ourselves as masters of the universe.
I am looking forward to that time. When airplanes will have hydrogen fuel use.
The main problem with using hydrogen as airplane fuel is weight. Not of the hydrogen itself, but the tanks it is stored in. Pressured tanks generally are heavy.
all the best and hopefully it speed delivers in entire world, because world smothered in toxic fumes have no idea how human beings are suffering there and that toxicity cuts across so called wealth barriers making street pavement urchins to so called sky scraper residents alike all over "refusing to develop world"
yes Massive, Hydrogen is just a storage medium for energy. That"s why its best produced using renewable energy or other non-polluting methods.
Hydrogen fuel is also give a very good average in a car also you don't use a stored electric city but you have your own electric city gunrunner 😎
How long have we known how to get hydrogen from water ? Answer it was first done in 1917 with a 6 to 12 volts direct current . yes it was done with the positive electrode on one side and a negative electrode on the other side . Years ago I found this info for extracting hydrogen from water in the Lindsey publication along with many other publications that was used back from the late 1880's to the 1930's
Uranium is also nature’s fuel.
What's safe doesn't change
As we know that hydrogen can be produce from synthesis gas by steam methane reforming .. ...So how does this process proceed? ???
The best of all the power systems sustainable pollution free clean and green and cool system ultimate power system.
Given that platinum is extremely rare and expensive, is there enough to supply the current number of vehicles in the world let alone future increases?
The platinum supply for hydrogen cars is greater than the Lithium supply for battery acid cars.
I did watch the whole thing and all of the uses of the hydrogen batteries are being powered by NG derived hydrogen. Fusion is a great energy source too, but until we can actually do it, it remains elusive.
There are no commercial supplies of free hydrogen. Now, supposedly, the Japanese have found a way to make electrolysis consume MUCH less energy, so if this breakthrough can scale up, we might have a hydrogen economy. But I don't count my chickens before they hatch.
Those eggs never did hatch. Toyota has given up on hydrogen.
What if a car using hydrogen fuel was hit hard enough and in such a way as to rupture the cell, Would it explode? Also, what is the smallest fuel sell you make? Say you only need to produce 50 watts of power that would last approximately 6 hours. What would be the size and weight of such a time?
Cell itself won't explode but hydrogen tank will. Hydrogen at atmospheric pressure has very low energy density, to carry any reasonable amount you need to store it at very high pressures (Toyota Mirai uses 10 000 PSI - 700 bar). This requires very heavy duty tanks. I don't feel like calculating your example but look at Mirai specs and you should be able to scale those to fit your example.
Hmm so there was a problem or rather questions raised about putting hydrogen on a ship why exactly?
Here's another thought for you. They have been transporting Hydrogen for years with diesel trucks. Why? Why don't they already run Hydrogen fuelled Trucks?
In today's technology , hydrogen seems to be another fossil fuel with a veil of eco friendliness. We need to generate the H2 from renewable sources with higher efficiency that it makes a economical sense. Until then, we would be better using electric technology.
Hydrogen is not a fossil fuel. It has to be manufactured using energy. Lots of it...
@@Brian-om2hh yes, especially clean hydrogen from electrolysis. But most of our current H2 production is as a by product from burning fossil fuels.
It will never make economical sense. Because hydrogen cycle is only about 30% efficient.
10 anos atrás e ainda tao a estudar😳
How will these hydrogen cars work in Minnesota winters? I see a lot of ice forming on our roads because of the water they make!
Hydrogen is not a fuel, it is an energy store. If you have too much renewable energy and you are happy to throw away 50% of it from creating hydrogen to using it, H2 is your baby. In fuel cells H2 is relatively harmless in use, but any application that involves burning it generates large amounts of nitrous oxide, a very powerful climate warming gas. So no good for heating, cooking, or fuelling aircraft. In addition, H2 "embrittles" steel, so you can't reticulate it in steel pipes or store it in steel containers.
The results of burning hydrogen is water .
@@joewilson2258 That's if you burn it in pure oxygen. If you burn it in Earth's atmosphere, water and NOX is produced.
SUE
Exactly
@@sueboyde5322 But lower levels than burning natural gas
@@julianchamberlain5399Wrong. Burning hydrogen emits 6 times as much NOX as burning gas.
well,....the idea already around for 60^70 years actually,but the researcher around the world,are trying to find the best way to produce,store and consume the Hydrogen fuel,efficiently>.