Reaction: POLYPHIA Live Disaster!
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Reaction and Analysis of Polyphia monitor fail live disaster by Herman Li, guitarist of DragonForce.
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Appreciate the kind words Herman! Didn’t expect to have an absolute legend say I did a good job today!
You deserve it, great job man!
Well done man, good thinking!! Is the drummers leg bruised now? haha
Saved the day 👍🏽
Why not put your in ears in the drummers ears?
@@alanparana6899 eww gross haha jk
“He can’t hear Tim’s guitar, He can’t hear Scottie’s guitar, He cant hear……The Bass Player” -Herman Li 2022
Poor Clay 😭
It's even worse because you only have to know 3 names for all 4 of them. Herman is clearly focused on the guitarists.
Yep, that's just a typical Tuesday as a bass player.
Certified bass moment
I felt this
I've been a lighting tech for almos 20 years.
When he takes his in-ear monitor off, not only he cant hear shit, he hears the delay from the PA bouncing everywhere in the stadium. Its literally like playing hearing everyone else half a second behind. Props to this guy and the roadie.
Amazing. Do you think he should he have just left the ears in then?
@@rebornsmith7542 Tough question. At least with his in ears OUT he can hear the ambient sound. It's times like this that a quiet stage sucks.
@@rebornsmith7542 it obviously depends on what's going on with his ear mix. It might have been some kind of feedback loop going on just one constant horrible noise could have been sheer distortion. I mean literally it could have been any one of a thousand different things. Without more information there's just no way to tell why he took his ear out. Because as others have said when you're playing on a big stage literally nothing is in time. If you're lucky enough to have cabinets on stage you might be able to identify with like the base cabinet to stay in time. Lot of times these days basically just going direct and everyone's got your mixes so they don't need cabinets on stage. And if your base cabinet is on a stage 30 ft away from you that's like 5 milliseconds of time delay it's hard to get those snares on time when you're five milliseconds out and what you're hearing
@@WarrenPostma I remember the first couple times I was mixing the front house for stage that used all ears it was the best thing in the world. As a front house engineer. Got the cleanest mixes I've ever had in my life when that started happening. It's almost surreal with all your hearing is a drum set because all the guitar cabinets are either offstage backstage or don't exist. To watch a keyboard player banging away and keys and not hearing anything and guitar players running around not hearing anything is a really weird experience. So if the drummer is the only guy keep in time and he's the one who's fuck it's really weird
The drum tech really kicked ass to whip up a good save like that.
This happened to me as a drummer right after sound check. Everything was good and they never turned my monitor back up for the whole first song. I was flying blind, watching the rocking and movements of my bandmates. The music you do hear is all warbled and off time from the echoing in the venue. Was one of the hardest things i ever did.
Totally lied
@fazrolizuan4578 hah, I wish it was a lie.
Techs are often the unsung heroes of many shows. Many times they know how to play every song in multiple instruments just in case god forbid they have to step in. Always on call, ready to jump in all guts no glory.
What a legend!
No crew - no show. Simple as that!
Like P-Stix with Buckethead. Definitely an unsung hero to those that don’t know much about Buckethead.
I don't understand, if the drum tech's clicky earphone thingy was working, why didn't he just give it to the drummer?
@@superbarnie might have had a completely different mix than what the drummer need or even can play with. Who knows, stressful situation, haha.
Clay is an amazing drummer. Really, anyone who doesn't recognize that is wrong. Shout out to the tech for being the click for the rest of that show.
I have a few friends who are really REALLY good drummers, so good it's a crime they're not in any bands, and they all say Clay is a friggin beast not to be underestimated.
@@EnkiSvohden your friends are wise. Clay is a true force. And I'm not shy to say, hes quite easy on the eyes as well 😂
I think the biggest thing people giving clay crap for playing to a click are missing is that there aren’t just samples there’s a straight up backing track. Tim Scott and clay2 can’t just follow clays timing and tempo there’s literally hip hop beats playing they have to follow, especially given how they write for harmonic effects with the track where you can’t just toss some free form lofi jazz stuff over it lol. If he can’t hear the track he can’t play to it click or not
Can't he play the HH for the tempo
hes the only noteworthy bandmember
Meshuggah literally has their entire show run by a laptop in a DAW( not sure which one) but lights and effects are all changed automatically at the right points because they play perfectly to the click an entire show. Anyone that has never tried to record to a click has no idea how wrong they are about it being cheating. Mr. Li thank you for setting the record straight
Props to Meshuggah lighting guy. That dude is tops.
Yeah i saw a video of meshuggah's light guy "playing" the lights in real time.
@Ben Gilbey The lighting is programmed in a lighting board (in Meshuggas case, its GrandMA2). Then they run an XLR from the laptop running the sequences to the lighting board. One of the files played by the playback laptop is called a SMPTE signal. This signal triggers all of the lighting cues on the lighting board.
@@stugeh Yeah, that was the previous tech. Now they have the light-show programmed
@@Maldito011316 Even if the lighting tech was making changes real time there most likely still was a good deal of the lighting changes running on time code.
Feeling someone tap your leg is not the same thing as hearing a click through your ears. The neural pathways are different. That the drummer can deal with this on the spur of the moment is pretty remarkable.
Clay is a fukn beast! Watch his Meinl cymbals performances.
i could see how its extremely helpful though. Almost like tapping your foot to something you've rehearsed over and over again.
Depends on the person actually. Back in college I had a lot of trouble with my timing. My teacher helped me by tapping on my shoulder. Theres also a company called soundbrenner that makes wristbands that vibrate to the metronome. Not to detract from your statement though Clay is an insanely good drummer and incredibly versatile.
@@sean_mccadden Nice!!! I had never heard of a music teacher tapping someone on the shoulder to help keep time, but it makes perfect sense. I probably could have used such a teacher, lol. Those wristbands sound really interesting, too.
I sincerely wish I could buy a metronome that would apply a super light electric shock instead of making a noise. I can play better and keep perfect time with physical input but a click track always gets lost in the background for me.
Playing with a click track definitely isn't cheating. If you go to see an orchestra play, there will be a conductor standing out front keeping them all in time like a human click track. I have never seen anyone accuse an orchestra of cheating for having a conductor, and it's the same thing here. The guy still knows his parts and is playing them for real.
That is why a metronome exists in the first place. One can practice and get the timing down with everyone then hope they've got right when the time comes(those who put in proper practice *will* success), or one can give themselves an edge to make *sure* they're doing it right.
The right answer is whatever works best. There is no universal right option. Some can do the metronome thing better. Some can play it by ear. Some sync up well naturally. Some work hard to make it work.
In the classical world, even if it is somehow conventional that the conductor uses one hand to keep time in the practice many times it does not do. Classical musicians are trained and rehearse to keep track of time internally without any external indication, and in fact in many pieces (chamber music, sonatas, quartets, quintets...) there is no conductor. Conductor actually was not a thing until Romantic era (XIX cent) when the number of musicians in orchestras expanded to more than 100
Yes, as a classically-trained clarinetist, I agree that having a click track is not cheating. As you say, we rely on a conductor to keep us on time (I also play in various rock bands where there is no conductor). However, needing to play with a click track does add an increased complexity to the show which means an additional thing that can go wrong during a show.
@@pablov1323 Nevertheless, they are a thing now, and can save a show from disaster if one person (or a section) experiences cranial flatulence and gets off or forgets a cue. I've played in large ensembles with a conductor and I've played in chamber ensembles without one. It's not in any way cheating to have a conductor up in front of the group keeping time; and in fact, it has become standard practice to have one.
Yes and no. There is definitely still a "live" feeling when orchestras perform. Much more difficult though than a click track because the musicians have to watch the conductor, the other musicians around them, while also playing and looking and their music. Playing to a click is much easier than with a conductor.
Just yet another reason to admire Clay. Tim usually gets all the glory, but Clay is the glue that ties everything together. But then it’s like… which of your kids do you like the best?😂
just like real clay huh?
I love how this could be said for both the clays
The 4 are monsters genius virtuoso. They're lucky they found each others.
Ya man. Spectacular drumming
The empty cabs are hilarious. They need more!
For anyone wondering why the drummer didn’t just use the tech’s in ears. what happened was they are wireless and tried a few different ones. The problem was a interference issue where he was on stage. That one point they had the drums set up would not receive any radio frequency
and also in ears are molded to their ears so they would either be painful or just not fit at all
Why I would always recommend hard wiring a dummers in ears, or any musician who doesn’t need the freedom of wireless. For a band playing with click, making sure the drummer has a solid IEM signal is super important.
@@jamescosgrove6680 That's right. Why create another possible point of failure if u don't have to.
@Natural Order They surely must've had a sound check before the live performance. How come the interference issue didn't appear then? And if at all it appeared in the check, then it's a no-brainer that they would've looked into fixing it before going up live.
This wouldn’t have to do with their wireless pack channel frequency would it? Interference in a huge stadium like that is super common, finding open frequencies in a place like that FULL of wireless equipment would def take time before the show to get it locked in, any slight change in frequencies from any other wireless device could step on his packs frequency.
God bless all the techs. Never forget, after James Hetfield was burned, his tech stepped up and finished the tour. Not just a show, the dude finished the whole tour!
And actually did it several years earlier when James broke his wrist skateboarding.
damn that's a crazy story man, i didn't know about it, the tech is awesome
can i read about that?
Who TF is James Hatfield? Isn't he the guy from Matallica?
@@dver4624 Yes he plays with Kirk Hemmat
Wow. My first response was, “James skateboarded?” 😳😹
Man, this is one of the best videos I've watched on TH-cam. Herman Li really does a great job explaining the production value of click. I have played in bands and recorded songs, but I didn't realize what exactly a click was and how it even syncs up to lights and pedals. Just incredible stuff.
I loved how he even got into the fact they were playing in a stadium and theres very little reverb bouncing back :3
Can't hear shit
Love your take on having the click. Reminds me of people saying you lose the spirit of music when you study music theory, when in reality it just opens the doors to better music
The fact that he couldn't really hear the rest of the band, and he had to basically play off of a drum tech tapping on his calf is incredibly impressive. He knew he was in trouble, and communicated it while still playing. He kept going, pretty much covering up the malfunction flawlessly.
The man is a machine, and this was something else to watch.
Reminds me of when Ringo said he couldn't always hear the band, so he'd watch John to see where in the song they were.
"He cant hear Tim Hensons guitar"
"Or Scotties guitar"
"Or the bass player"
Well ladies and gents, the polyphial popularity hierarchy is revealed ;D
dont know anything about polyphia but the drummer seems pretty above average
@@davidopitz972 The joke is that Herman knows the guitarists but not the other two lol. Even more ironic is that both drummer and bassist share the same first name, Clay
@@davidopitz972 drummer ties everything together. Takes an exceptionally skilled drummer to make Polyphia sound good. in my humblest opinion a "regular" drummer stands no chance.
@@michaelmunson6809 As a lead guitar player, I deem the drummer by FAR the most important instrumentalist in the band. If I had to assemble a group of guitar, bass, and drums and was given 15 “points” of talent to allot to them, it would go:
7 drummer
6 bassist
2 guitarist
We guitarists can fuck up and barely anyone notices. The drummer does, and it’s like the band is falling down the stairs.
@@ericanderson7346 I agree totally.
Clay: "I can't hear shit"
Tech: "It's ok. I'll just tap your leg"
Clay: "Can't you just give me your monitor?"
Tech: "Nah. Then I wouldn't be able to tap your leg."
Hahaha. My thoughts exactly!
Finnally! This.
In ear monitors are usually custom made and hooked up to specific computers, so the drum tech's ear piece might not fit, or it might not be as helpful because the drum tech's monitor might not be hearing the band mix live. :)
Technology is a double edged sword.
Wouldn't work. In my days I once switched ear monitors with my vocalist, it was a nightmare for both of us. Every ear monitor is set up differently. Plus the earphone itself, at least the high tier ones, are molded, so they fit your ear only.
@@Wisznuification .......................................sure.
But I mean, it STILL seems to me a loosely fitting earphone with a different set up would be better than a guy tapping your leg. Unless his earphone didn't have the click, but clearly it DID.
I mean, 3 things:
- the dude tapping the leg has to be SERIOUSLY on time every tap for 30 minutes while crouching down on the ground - NOT an easy position
- the dude tapping the leg is tapping a MOVING LEG see as the drummer uses it to drum
- the drummer has to focus on feeling the taps on the leg WHILE moving that same leg around and drumming with it.
What surprises ME, is that the band doesn't have an out for cases of emergency such as this. I mean your drummer is out; how hard it is to have a pre-rehearsed guitar / bass solo between two songs or the singer saying some things animating the audience until the glitch is fixed or taped up somehow? The audience doesn't even have to notice.
I am impressed with how much passion and detail you explained the event and protected your fellow musician. You are a really wonderful person and professional. I really appreciate you as a guitarist and as a man. Thanks Herman!
Both drummer and tech were true heroes and basically saved the show! Great job in a horrible situation that no professional musician would ever want to experience.
I just love your aura Herman Li. You’re such good people. I thank you again for giving me such a great interview!!! And the DF show in Cleveland was so badass!!! 🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼
first time i played live, i had lights hitting my face so i could not see the crowd, my monitor was off for the first two tracks and the rest of the band decided to play two last songs i didn't know and hadn't rehearsed. This was in 2009 and to this day i do not have the courage to replay that footage on my computer.
Man it sucks but it happens. Don't be so hard on yourself it takes courage to even try. As with anything in life. You're alright man 👍
Thank you for explaining it so beautifully!
Very good analysis. I agree that was a badass recovery and that man deserves a raise or at the very least alot of praise from the drummer. Very impressive on the drummers side also for managing and not fucking up.
That is indeed an tricky situation when stage equipment failing down, luckily they survived the show🤘🏾
I’m so glad you addressed this. Read some of the dumbest comments online about this incident. As a drummer that used to program my own backing tracks and samples with several triggers I find this absolutely incredible. World class musicianship here
Awesome interesting info. Thanks Herman.
This was so awesome to see!
as a musician, herman's take is the best take i've ever heard
Our drummer used to throw his in ears in anger when we fell off beat. It was hilarious. I play bass so usually we(me and the drummer)just lock in and make the guitars follow us.
Amazing apreciation about metrics with metronome! thanx for tell worldwide about this HERMAN LEE, God bless you
Love your detail, passion, and expertise Herman!!!!
Thanks for the analysis. It was pretty in depth and I like hearing what it's like behind the scenes
Speaking as a musician who has never used any of this tech under any circumstances, not only is this drummer NOT cheating, he did something EXTREMELY CHALLENGING and made it look easy. Bless you Herman for saying this for the folks who don't understand these things. That's astonishing to me, and I personally don't consider anything to be cheating if the musicians are still actually playing the songs. It would take some serious ego to fault these guys for their approach to these things.
Great point about moving the feeling around while still playing on the click! Im about to start doing it! Thanks Herman!
Great Vid and breakdown. Well done
Holy shit, give that man a raise.
Great analysis. That drum tech was awesome. They need to keep him around for as long as their a band.
That was a fantastic and insightful take on the situation, my dude. Thank you 🙏🏻👏🏻!
This was great. It´s cools to get this insights of things that happens on stage.
Playing to a click is difficult for most musicians . Mainly musicians who've always had access to other musicians to jam with. Probably about the first eight years of my playing/learning I only had a click or drum machine to practice to and it gave me a good sense of time where my band mates are all over the place.
My drummer thought he had the best time keeping skills until we got to the studio with a click. It was hard for him to take at first but he swallowed his pride and got better.
First time I ever played with a click I found it way too distracting. I gave up on it, and just a couple years later suffered an accident that kept me from playing or any hope of ever getting "better" than I was (I wasn't good to begin with.) After learning a lot about playing live from friends and musicians I've met, I wish I would've kept on with it. Oh well. My ears still work, so at least I can enjoy other people's music and I know how to appreciate the process even more now.
Ngl that happened to me. For years I thought my timing was decent, but then when I started to actually try to record myself I realized how bad it was but it definately helped improve so i do agree when people say recording music instead of performing can make musicians better (not to say performing wont but its different skills imo)
Same here took me like a month to get used to hearing the click while playing. Helped a ton with time keeping though so win win.
@@Errorfile404 agree 100%. Side note, you get to a point to where the click is a welcome challenge. Even changing the BPM and letting the click go just for sort of an inspiration to start playing something out of your natural timing abilities. Or increasing/decreasing the count to something you already know as an exercise. It's quite fun honestly
Always thought I had stellar time, yea when you hear recordings back and go damn...I'm not nearly as tight as I thought. Very humbling experience but it truly is a game changer performing live with a click. I really wish more smaller bands would do it, it makes such a huge difference.
To add to the great points that Herman made, every venue has its own natural reverb effect where the sound bounces from the walls back to the stage. Not a big thing to deal with in small venues but in large places like a stadium it is less like a fast reverb and more like a loud echo. And you can guarantee the delay time of the echo won't fit nicely with the tempo of any of your songs. It changes with every venue and it also changes depending on how many people are there. In-ear monitors with click track are the only reliable way I know of to deal with this problem. Most importantly, fans who buy tickets to a Polyphia show expect to see a tight, precise and professional performance.
I'm so glad I came across your comment. I never heard of a click until this video. At first I was thinking "Don't they rehearse their songs together? Don't they memorize their parts?" I had a band and only played small venues like clubs and such, but your explanation about larger arenas was expertly worded and I got the gist right away. Thank you!
@@robertmartinez9293 Man, it doesn't have to be a big venue. Every room has its challenges. From big tents to theaters and arenas. One of my worst experiences was at a newly built music venue. Problem is, they never consulted anyone for acoustics. They built basically a cube. (worst thing ever. Parallel walls are hell) First hit of the snare, there's this huge slap-back. Everything we did on stage had a crisp echo at a fixed tempo. That is a nightmare. TLDR: People don't know about acoustics. It can totally destroy a performance.
You know I never really thought about this. Even more props to the musicians we love then.
Yap and to add on to that.
Even in well treated rooms, both recording and live, at the very least all the rhythm section instruments should play with clicks because they are the backbones of the song and when they mess it up, it really becomes obvious.
And even well treated stages do sound like muffled banging woofing mess to the musicians on it so keeping perfect time is near impossible unless inears and clicks.
I have no problem with monitors to hear the rest of the band, but I'll be the contrarian and say maybe they should learn how to play in time, or play venues designed for music, not sports, instead of needing a click track in their ears. I don't believe that John Bonham or Billy Cobham ever used click tracks live. On the other hand, they probably thought the music was more important than triggering the lights or some pre-recorded stuff. Why not just lip sync and air-guitar the whole concert to a perfectly timed recording? Who needs human imperfection in a live show?
Thanks Herman. I learned so much in just this one video.
Very nice analysis of what happened and about the "click" thing. Thanks Herman! :)
Thanks for breaking this down - so much truth about how it really works, and how being a good musician means playing with the production and the click, which is WAY harder than anyone understands. It’s what facilitates the song where it’s damn near impossible to hear everyone else! In my early studio and stage days I despised the click until it became a heartbeat to me and what I did on guitar, and I realized how it helped glue us all together.
Happy by the drum tech doing his job correctly - people don’t realize the shitshow that guitar, bass, and drum techs deal with on tour and it’s great seeing one in action doing what they do night after night, but in this case being in the daylight and saving a show (even behind the stack!). Good techs are often just as good as the people out front, but are invisible. If they did their job well the crowd never knows, and that’s a tough position to do every day! Much love to their constant love and dedication.
Within the last couple of years, my band has switched to in-ears and clicks. There was a little bit of apprehension due to initially feeling 'isolated', but it is SO MUCH better. I've automated my pedalboard and can really just focus on playing. We can confidently play new songs with very little rehearsing, with an added guide band-leader voice saying shit like "Chorus in 4, 3, 2, 1".. Everyone in the band can just pull out their phone and turn up or down any specific thing they want in their ears. We can trigger lighting sequences, trigger virtual instruments - everything Herman said. It's all possible thanks to the click. ..well.. A laptop running Ableton Live, and a rack with a Digital Mixer and a bunch of IEM transmitters & body packs
That's awesome.
The things that are available today are so great and all in the pursuit of making good music.
The notion that something meant to allow a musician to perform better is cheating is absurd.
Eh, how did all these legendary bands before do it. If you can't do it without tech, you just can't do it. I'm more listening to the wonders of texh than the wonders of musical ability. Having timing is part of being a musician.
@@hereforthecomments258 The legendary bands did it in the old days with the support of a lot more people. These days things are sequenced. Pyro, lighting. It’s all sequenced on a timeline controlled by a computer. The band needs to play precisely to the timeline. Before tech existed that allowed automation, the bands would be supported by a much larger crew who would manually be triggering pyro, managing lighting and the likes. And, they didn’t play consistently to a fixed BPM because they didn’t need to. I’d argue that a full band playing perfectly synchronised to a click is a skill in itself that takes time to learn and constant practice to maintain. As for those legendary bands, if you threw them on stage with in-ears and asked them to play perfectly to a click, the majority would fail without the time to learn and master the skill.
@rnodern Right. I was aware of all of that. Hence why I said, get a light crew. My point was that we're losing analog music. Playing to a click is a separate skill but it's way easier than doing it without once you learn. I couldn't care less about lights. I'd rather see true art at work, improvisation is limited by this. Imagine James brown playing to a click. I get why they do it. But we're one step away from bands just playing the track over top lol. This isn't organic music. Who gives a shit about Pyro, I'm there for music not fireworks.
@@hereforthecomments258 guess you missed the part where he explains what a damn WEDGE is. Clicks doesn't make you any better. But yeah, stay in the stone age while everyone moves forward.
Thanks Herman! You rock dude!
Great statements at the end … thank you sir!!!
And that's why, as a sound engineer, I always keep a backup wedge for the drummer in case something fails. Also, having the drummers in-ear wired instead of wireless also saves you in some cases
Yes. Wired is essential
Playing click track isn't cheating. Its like saying tuning a guitar with a tuner is cheating.
It is
@@spookyskeleton4977 This would mean almost all albums are recorded by cheaters?
Funniest thing I’ve read in a while. Thanks.
It's not actually like saying that... really bad analogy. Tuning a guitar is tuning it, not playing it. Drums get tuned too. There are drummers out there who don't play to click tracks because they don't need it. Today's music is so over produced it sometimes doesn't even sound like people are playing these instruments. Quantize everything and take the feel out of it. Not saying it's wrong but if that's your thing I guess, you do you.
So an orchestra is cheating because they have a CONDUCTOR?
They musician, no such thing is cheating.. people who keep talking sh*t can't even play basic chord
THANK YOU HERMAN!
Herman Li is a beast, great breakdown man
I loved playing to the click... it made the whole performance so much better, and also as you mentioned, we played all the effects from a timeline... and the click showed me where those effects will be so I lead not just the band but also I was the 1 who knew when to start the song so the effects would be in the right place. It elevated our show to a completely new level and it was awesome!
Sounds like a robot band. How would you ever improvise?
I recorded drums for one of my old band's albums this way. Just listening to a click while playing the song in my head. It's definitely difficult but it helps when you've played the song countless times, but I also practiced this before recording knowing I would have to do it that way which probably would not have been possible for me to do otherwise.
Appreciate this take on the click. I have always thought of it as inorganic to how I think about creating music. This is eye opening but understandably necessary in live performances. kudos
thanks for the informative video!
Saying "click is cheating" is like saying looking at the conductor in an orchestra is cheating.
It makes literally zero sense lmao
Probably those people who can't even play.
Right? The click track is legit just a digital conductor
I don't think clicks are cheating but you can't Speed Up and Slow Down music in an organic way. I understand some Productions need consistent timing but it has made the music
The last couple of years extremely predictable and boring to be honest.
With a conducter you CAN change the tempo and dynamics. Because it is a HUMAN.
Back when I used to record local bands, no one wanted to record to a click because it was "Cheating." I would always tell them, you can record without a click, but if it needs to be recorded again, it's going to cost you again. Sometimes they didn't listen, and they learned the hard way. A click is just another tool.
Recording with a click does not equal needing one to play live.
Very interesting. Thank you for the explanation.
Thanks for your breakdown on this man
That is perfect and awesome.
I used to do a one man act with me singing and playing guitar over a sequenced backing track. Local shows don't always have monitors. At one disastrous show, my PA for the gig was just subwoofers, as the "other stage" was using the midrange speakers. I couldn't hear my track so the audience, who could, started metronome clapping for me.
i dont use a click track ever for guitar but my other band mates do, the click is good for some folks but years ago i stopped using it because i did too many mushrooms once and now the clicking makes me zone out
😂🤣 Sorry dude I know youre serious but damn dude! Lmao!
Finally an understandable argument against clicks xD
Hahaha that's hilarious. :D
🤣🤣🤣 when I was reading the 1st part of your comment, I was like, "Look at this dude" but then read the rest so I said "Oh ok, pretty good argument."
Having the exact same problem all the time
very interesting your final thoughts about clicks and live performances settings. Cool.
Wicked Mr. Li! Thanks for breaking it all down!
When keeping it professional, goes right. I thought this was going to be an expose video. Much more respect for the band. Just means and shows they’re legit.
I remember hearing an interview with Pete Townshend once saying that when they toured Quadrophenia in the 70's they had to use reel-to-reel tape because the music was so layered and as a result Moon had to play to a click (Hence footage of Moon wearing massive headphones gaffer taped to his head). Townshend said every drummer now can play to a click but back then none of them could... except for Moon.
So thanks for being another voice to support the click. Like anything it needs careful use but yes when you're doing any kind of sync you need the click.
Pete Townshend says a lot of things...he's not a very reliable source of...anything lol
Moon couldnt play 6/8
Sure, no other drummer in the 70s was able to steadily hold a beat and play to a programmed sound impulse... Sounds about right.
Wow! This is a really insightful commentary. I grew up around live musicians and must say this video is pretty educational on live band dynamics. I appreciated the bit about tempo fluctuations pre-'08 & click tracks.
Ive learn alot from this video thanks for the learning bro
Further reinforcing that Clay is an absolutely legendary drummer.
i play to a backingtrack live and its extremly hard because if i mess up, the track is running. playing to a click is hell. even in the studio
Thanks for your insight! I suspected some level of what you're saying, but your perspective is really helpful in understanding how big of a deal this really is.
It’s all about recovery. Shit happens live and these guys are so complex, I totally respect the recovery and the improvisation to make it sound right. Genius recovery!
I don't understand this whole "cheating" thing, performing for people isn't a game, or a competition, there are no rules. There's no such thing as cheating. You're there to do one thing, and one thing only, play good music and keep the crowd entertained. Whatever you gotta do to make that happen, you just do it.
Yeah but when the drummer loses the click and it turns into this shitshow it exposes a major flaw: drummer cant play in time. Keeping time is the drummers main job.
@@DuxJerome youre acting like theres drummers that can play exactly 132.5 bpm then switch to 144 bpm on command lmfao . plus accounting for the fact progressive music changes bpm and time signatures throught the songs. and idk what video you watched but this wasnt a shit show the drummer played fine
@@DuxJerome LOL, they're drummers, not robots dude. If you expect continuous perfect tempo from a drummer without a click, you are being unreasonable.
@@DuxJerome You have no idea what you are talking about, sir.
its like saying "mixing your music digitally is cheating". it's the usual suspects saying this bs lol
Thanks for clearing that up. The whole live show runs off a computer these days. Doesn't mean the musicians aren't up there shredding. In fact, it's more work getting all that stuff set up than to not do it at all and it adds to the overall entertainment value of the performance. People pay money to be entertained so it's up to the band to deliver, which means running your set with MIDI commands to add more elements to the show.
Your commentary of the event is SPOT ON!!! Huge stadiums are notorious for the freaky slap-back of sound! Super scary especially without any monitors!!! Just freaking out cuz your in-ears are gone and you’re in a vortex of sound and fury! Ouch!!The drum tech was a super-hero at that moment! Saved the day! True pro who didn’t fold under stress! Great video!!! Cheers!!!
That's amazing!!
As a former drummer, I can confirm that if your in-ear monitors malfunctions you literally hear nothing but drums. People would be surprised how loud those things are compared to everything else hooked up to amps and what have you.
Drums are loud as fuck, and people somehow forget this lol
Yeah. Only having experience as a guitar player playing in smaller venues. Up to a certain size venue you don't even mic up the drums. Maybe the kick to enforce it a bit. But I have played plenty of gigs where the drummer wasn't miced up at all.
Yeah. I work with content creators who are musicians. For an anniversary video, we once did a "this is how i make my videos" behind the scenes vid. It was as simple as take request, download/make instrumental, record main vocal on camera (not even lipsynced), we left out the mixing process and then went straight to editing/uploading.
The top comment was "why don't you just sing, why do you need all the steps?". People really don't realize what the reality of being a musician is, which is also why a lot of people never make good shit, because they don't understand what professional musicians go through. Like unsuccessful musicians saying they're depressed because they're not signed/not touring. It's like, mate, do you know how much more depressed you'd be if you were in that position?
Thanks a lot for getting tyhings straight, Herman. I'm not a fan of Polyphia, but the drummer has all my respect for surviving this mess. And congrats to the drum tech, awesome work, dude.
Not all hero’s wear capes! His sound guy tapped the BPM all night for him! Great team work!
That is ... actually really impressive every part of the recovery of the show 👏🏽👏🏽
Shout out to the dude being a human metronome to keep the show going. What a freaking trooper! Also, I would rather have a catastrophic sound system failure than find out someone's been lip syncing for God knows how long.
Ironically, when I saw DragonForce live they screwed up badly and had to start a song over. They just laughed it off and so did the crowd. Great show!
Well done sir!
Drum Tech did an awesome job on this one. Truly the unsung heroes of a live set.
Honestly, this a triumph, not a fail.
this is a task failed successfully, we are now even bigger fans
I honestly became a better guitarist/bassist/drummer when I started practicing with a click. If you’re practicing one of your favorite songs it’s easy to fall into a bad habit of playing something that’s technically out of time but to you it sounds right because you get used to it through repetition.
If I wanted to practice making a song I could figure out the BPM of any song I wanted to cover and throw on a click track. From there I could start with any instrument. I usually started with drums and go off my own playing using the other instruments and redoing the song until it sounds good.
Pretty cool to have this stuff explained. I had no idea how any of that stuff worked.
Nice and professional. Not stopping not getting angry, everyone in sync to solve the issue.
Two of my old band mates, the rhythm guitarist and bassist both are nearly virtuosos in their own rights, our bassist is a music major and guitarist led our HS band as a fill in director at just 17 when our band director quit and they taught me more about music and playing in time and using time to improve my singing than any choir or guitar class I've ever taken. Like herman said it makes the music so much tighter and everyone's just on the same page without getting muddled up , our drummer never picked up a pair of sticks or sat in a throne until he joined our band and it breaks my heart every day that he's not doing well and def not utilizing that natural talent.
He is spot on with the click being harder. Cuz it's way easier for a band to recover from a mistep without a click. But with a click, if you mess up. Not only do you have to recover but everyone has to recover within the click track. Definitely harder.
I never heard this band till Feb in Oregon was awesome place was tiny band came out afterwards signed autographs and took pics keep rocking
I didn't know about this mishap but now that I do, I like this band even more. Very cool. Good job Dragon.
Hasn't this already happened to Dream Theater, but everybody's 'in ears' went off.
They finished a 15' song just by feel or however I guess.
There's a Jordan Rudess video about it
Cheers
When I was teching, I literally had to learn the set myself and do stuff you'd never expect to have to do. Like, if a guy jumps up on an Amp, there's probably a tech right behind it making sure it doesn't fall over.
That was f*cking awesome!
Jeez Herman that back wall looks like a feckin guitar store. Good shit homie!
New drinking game: One shot every time Herman says “click.”
Oh, on second thought, don’t do this. You’ll be dead before the halfway point of the video. 💀
Challenge accepted
Click Track Software Help Centre
Problem(pick one):
1 - Adjusting volume for multiple tracks
2 - Changing setlist/track order
3 - Syncing wireless in-ears
4 - Drummer yelling at you mid track that they can't hear shit✅
The Help Centre has found 1 Possible Solution(s) to instantly resolve this issue:
Step 1:
Mechanically beat the drummer with a stick for the remainder of the set.
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Well done Herman Li. Your solid explanation of this technology as it relates to a stage performance helped a complete novice like me understand. Impressive.
Thank you for the analysis, Herman. Hope those who were running their mouths without a blip of experience will learn something now.