No Submarine would be using Active Sonar anywhere, unless they wanted to give away their position to those homing in on their extremely obvious Sonar signature...
As a USN veteran of the Cold War era, I can assure you that if any US submarine captain had been using active sonar to track a Soviet sub, he wouldn’t have remained a captain for long. That would’ve been a huge breach of OPSEC.
How about mid AIR collisions? Those are baffling too. As Billy Bob Thornton said in Armageddon “it’s a big ass sky”. How two relatively small metal tubes can meet in the same place, at the same time, in all of that vast expanse is beyond me.
It’s simple. The very quiet Americans were tailing the noisy Russians by hiding in the bigger sub’s propeller wake. They had to stay close or get discovered.
What a great story. Growing up in the worst of the Cold War, I love these Cold War era stories of enemies always trying to one-up the adversary without getting caught! More of these stories please. PS-I’m actually glad everyone on the Black Lila were okay. The thought of death in a submarine has always been something of nightmares!
I wanted to be a submariner when I was a kid because of the movie “ Run Silent Run Deep “. But I was 10 when the Thresher went down and I got scared. But I eventually got over it. Then I was about 15-16 when the Scorpion went down and I said fuck if I’m going to Vietnam instead. But since I’m an only child the Marines wouldn’t have me so I didn’t serve after all …
@@manuelbermudez211 They didn’t take only children during Vietnam? My friends son joined the Marines during the recent Afghan crap and he’s an only child of a widow and they scooped him right up. Although he never served anywhere but Camp Pendleton-Right next to where we live in Oceanside!!
Seems they will take only children for service but make damn sure they won't be put into any combat situation. Also they will never put siblings in the same unit.@@annehersey9895
Not the only "Cat & Mouse" operation that caused such a collision. I knew of one in the mid-80's. They brought the boat up the channel in the middle of the night, which almost never happened. She was taken straight into the ARDM and her bow covered with tarps to prevent any observation from above.
Well your story was awesome, excellent piece of Cold War intrigue. I do take issue with some of your details especially that of the T using her sonar to ping the ruskie boat while trailing her. Active sonar sends out a sound pulse “ping” it would be instantly heard and recognized by the K-108. Suicide for an American boat deep in soviet waters
OK. This is for DARKSEAS: This was a screw up on the part of the tracking party. Without getting into the classified details (which I was privy to) TAUTOG had the ECHO II's speed wrong and hence the range on their plots was wrong. They thought the ECHO II was farther away than it actually was and collided with her. "Ah, yeah! They sure build 'em good at Ingalls" (Somebody will know what that means)
I spent almost 4 years under water on a U.S. Los Angeles Class Sub. I was never a "SUB marine er" i.e. beneath a Marine. I was and still am a "Sub-Mare-Iner" Sorry for the nit picking but i worked too hard to give it up. Qm2/ss Jim Dorchak
My Cousin Alan ; served in the SILENT SERVICE at that time , it was still the Vietnam War then and I was 10 years old. Thanks Dark Seas , for this information. Your program is peerless.
That sub', with a blade missing from it's propeller, would have required towing, as the shaft would have been unbalanced, rendering the propulsion possibly catastrophic,, or at least having potential to cause more damage if continued in use?
interesting - been in a few of those cat and mouse games - I was never told they were dangerous - But that was the reason we received Hazardous Duty Pay every month -
They don't tell you their poisoning you either huh , but there's about 30 things banned in almost every other country because we're not supposed to be eating it
Wouldn't the US ship have been able to hear a tug on sonar or see it on radar? Seems odd that a sinking sub wouod be rescued by a tug that appeared out of nowhere.
So the Soviets claim their sub did not sink? Then what caused the break-up noises recorded by USS Tautog? Ivan never lied? Yeah, sure! One thing puzzles me --- why was USS Tautog so close when K-108 did a crazy ivan? Somebody screwed up. By the way, Dark Seas, you need better research...a US sub does not use active sonar when shadowing an enemy sub. Make any noise like a sonar ping, you might as well say, "Here I am, shoot me!"
USS DIXON AS 37 79-81 Point Loma Ca. USS FORRESTAL CV 59 82-84 Mayport Fl. Got the best of both worlds! Bubble boats and Birdfarms. Run silent run deep! Fly Navy!
Just after this happened the Navy painted over all the numbers on the sails of the submarines in San Diego. Now none of the subs have numbers on their sails.
Then why do pictures of LA, Seawolf, and Ohio classes with hull numbers exist? This happened in 1970 six years before LA commissioned, eleven before Ohio and decades prior to Seawolf.
Greetings from Pakistan ! Seasons' Greetings ! Well narrated one-sided facts. How cum these advanced gadgets fail in such a miserable way. A massive collision just dents one submarine whistle the other is drowned, and when salvaged the damage is not shown. Mind boggling !
It would seem as though the leaders, and soldiers of superpowers, in this world are NOT interested in the prospect of peace, but rather, the preparation for war. It is sad, and wrong that since world war 1, many nations of the world are always ready for, and in eager anticipation of war, especially Our nation. What happened to state craft, and diplomacy in good faith ? Where is the draw down ? Why are war ships, and military bases not confined to their own territory ? Have we learned nothing, since the 2 times that the world was dragged into war, due to alliances that served no purpose, except death, destruction, terrorizing the masses, and the accumulation of power by the few ? I cannot be convinced that so many nations require all that they have in terms of military technology, or the number with which they are deployed, because it will lead to another brutal reality, of a world at war. 😔
What I think I heard is possible insinuation that a "New-Old" sub and crew suddenly appeared after all those years Ya know I've got an old family Deed on a Bridge in New York, costing me much in maintenance, Real Happy to let it go Cheap
I wonder if the back channels of the US Navy contacted the USSR Navy to let them know what they suspected. Guessing not but in my eyes it would have been the right thing to do?
Part of the reason the collision happened in the first place was a failure to precisely identify distances with the same instruments that wouldn't heard the sub "breaking apart". Meanwhile a severe collision had indeed taken place, with plenty of damage and noise to be heard. So the implication made in the video would be that they 'thought' they heard it breaking apart but in reality they just heard the damage taking place. However, the real contradiction to me would be the US crew's story being that they stuck around the scene for awhile, continuing to search for the Soviet sub and apparently not finding it. But again the instruments are called into question. - Surely there would be some significant evidence of the Soviet Sub's return and subsequent scrapping? If not, maybe the story of it's return went mutually unchallenged for political reasons on both sides.
The potential for atomic catastrophe caused by TWO or more submarines playing Blind Man's Bluff is horrific. One day this "atomic game" will kill tens of millions over a submarine fender-bender.
![[Full] 4 ต่อ 4 Celebrity EP.920 | 3 พ.ย. 67 | one31](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KwiW2M_kAg4/mqdefault.jpg)
Subs do NOT use active sonar to shadow Russian subs,that gives away their location!
I can assure you that USS Tautog was NOT using active sonar!
that was the first thing i was thinking... like, don't that reveal like location of the person doing the ping, or did that movie lie to me!
That's a fact!
This channel is straight trash.
It's been garbage for a while now.
Maybe the Russians were using active, but we weren’t ringing the door bell.
No Submarine would be using Active Sonar anywhere, unless they wanted to give away their position to those homing in on their extremely obvious Sonar signature...
As a USN veteran of the Cold War era, I can assure you that if any US submarine captain had been using active sonar to track a Soviet sub, he wouldn’t have remained a captain for long. That would’ve been a huge breach of OPSEC.
Submarines play tag a lot more often than ever makes the evening news. SOSUS knows.
Pinging softly? Nope. Might as well shout “Here I am!”. Or “Marco”.
Ramius!
@@caseyholland7860 One ping only.
Polo 💺
@@GemmaLBone ping only, please
All that ocean and they manage to find each other and collide. Incredible.
It happened to a British and French sub too.
How about mid AIR collisions? Those are baffling too. As Billy Bob Thornton said in Armageddon “it’s a big ass sky”. How two relatively small metal tubes can meet in the same place, at the same time, in all of that vast expanse is beyond me.
It’s simple. The very quiet Americans were tailing the noisy Russians by hiding in the bigger sub’s propeller wake. They had to stay close or get discovered.
What a great story. Growing up in the worst of the Cold War, I love these Cold War era stories of enemies always trying to one-up the adversary without getting caught! More of these stories please. PS-I’m actually glad everyone on the Black Lila were okay. The thought of death in a submarine has always been something of nightmares!
I wanted to be a submariner when I was a kid because of the movie “ Run Silent Run Deep “. But I was 10 when the Thresher went down and I got scared. But I eventually got over it. Then I was about 15-16 when the Scorpion went down and I said fuck if I’m going to Vietnam instead. But since I’m an only child the Marines wouldn’t have me so I didn’t serve after all …
@@manuelbermudez211 They didn’t take only children during Vietnam? My friends son joined the Marines during the recent Afghan crap and he’s an only child of a widow and they scooped him right up. Although he never served anywhere but Camp Pendleton-Right next to where we live in Oceanside!!
Seems they will take only children for service but make damn sure they won't be put into any combat situation. Also they will never put siblings in the same unit.@@annehersey9895
Another great story! Thanks for not using an AI voice! I know it's more work, but it's worth it.
Not the only "Cat & Mouse" operation that caused such a collision. I knew of one in the mid-80's. They brought the boat up the channel in the middle of the night, which almost never happened. She was taken straight into the ARDM and her bow covered with tarps to prevent any observation from above.
Like a teenager parking the car so the freshly bent bumper doesn't show...🤣🤣🤣
I was in During the 70's but the story was about the Queenfish,
"Crazy Ivan"!
"Catch is, a boat this big doesn't exactly stop on a dime..."
@@erichgolden1812 So give em one ping vasily... One ping only please. (Honk! Get out of the way!)
=P
Yep...Saw that once and heard about others.
I was thinking the same thing about a crazy Ivan gone wrong.
@@stevekohl5351 So was I.
The footage these channels use are incredible
Well your story was awesome, excellent piece of Cold War intrigue. I do take issue with some of your details especially that of the T using her sonar to ping the ruskie boat while trailing her. Active sonar sends out a sound pulse “ping” it would be instantly heard and recognized by the K-108. Suicide for an American boat deep in soviet waters
I like how you whisper as if you don't want the feds to hear you hahaha
OK. This is for DARKSEAS: This was a screw up on the part of the tracking party. Without getting into the classified details (which I was privy to) TAUTOG had the ECHO II's speed wrong and hence the range on their plots was wrong. They thought the ECHO II was farther away than it actually was and collided with her.
"Ah, yeah! They sure build 'em good at Ingalls" (Somebody will know what that means)
Yeah, bent sail! Who wounda' thunk it....
I just read about this in Blind man's bluff! A book i'd personally recommend anyone interested in submarine stories.
@@wesseltromp4802Great read!!!
So if the soviet sub survived what were those popping noises that the americans heard after the collision?
@dougaldouglas8842as
Excellent point 🤔 possibly efforts by the Russian crew to stop their boat from sinking
Hull popping usually means a sub going shallow and the hull is 'popping' because of the release of pressure on the hull.
Whale farts?
If it did sink there would be a wreck. They found K-129 remember and other soviet sunken subs.
I spent almost 4 years under water on a U.S. Los Angeles Class Sub.
I was never a "SUB marine er" i.e. beneath a Marine.
I was and still am a "Sub-Mare-Iner"
Sorry for the nit picking but i worked too hard to give it up.
Qm2/ss Jim Dorchak
@dougaldouglas8842 Right on! Jim
My Cousin Alan ; served in the SILENT SERVICE at that time , it was still the Vietnam War then and I was 10 years old. Thanks Dark Seas , for this information. Your program is peerless.
The only submarine I have ever heard of that used active sonar pings was the Seaview.
🤣😎
On the Seaview they could have just looked out the window, thus preventing an accident.
* Crazy Ivan !!! 👊😎👍
Absolutely humbling…, including how you tell the stories of these brave brave men…🙏🙏🙏🙏
I tend to doubt the Russian side of the story. I figure the K108 and all of its crew are indeed on the bottom of the ocean.
Great timing!
A broken propeller would shake so hard the shaft would destroy its bearings and seals before it sheared off and over-speeded the turbine.
My dad was USMC aviation (Honolulu) and I remember meeting some of these guys! Yes Sir!
Wow fascinating story. Never heard of this incident before, thanks for doing these, love the channels you do always informative and interesting.
Crazy Ivan!!!
I've worked at a boat ramp and have seen everything but headlights in the water. Keep up the good work.
Subs do not use active sonar when hunting each other.... That would put a huge target on the Sub with active sonar.
Here we are 54 years later and we haven’t learned our lesson yet !!
CRAZY IVAN!!!!!
That sub', with a blade missing from it's propeller, would have required towing, as the shaft would have been unbalanced, rendering the propulsion possibly catastrophic,, or at least having potential to cause more damage if continued in use?
interesting - been in a few of those cat and mouse games - I was never told they were dangerous - But that was the reason we received Hazardous Duty Pay every month -
They don't tell you their poisoning you either huh , but there's about 30 things banned in almost every other country because we're not supposed to be eating it
@@JosephThomas-t3nlike?
They gave us that extra pay just for agreeing to lock ourselves inside a sewer pipe with a cap on each end for months at a time! We were expendable.
"One ping, only"
"But Captain....I...eh...I"
"Give me a ping, Vasili.....One ping only!"
Subs dont ping, they use hydrophones, 8 seconds in and ill pass 😂
Great documentary!But you never use a sonar.It's like a flashlight at night:you see but you are seen.Hydrophons are the game!Best regards from Spain.
Wouldn't the US ship have been able to hear a tug on sonar or see it on radar? Seems odd that a sinking sub wouod be rescued by a tug that appeared out of nowhere.
Oh and spoiler- the thumbnail has NOTHING TO DO with the video!
Who else thinks the Soviets were lying? 🤥
When do the Soviets tell the truth? 😂
@@Ashalaho About as often as the Allied governments do.
you said the crew HEARD the sub breaking apart? so what did they hear then if the other sub returned to base?
So the Soviets claim their sub did not sink? Then what caused the break-up noises recorded by USS Tautog? Ivan never lied? Yeah, sure! One thing puzzles me --- why was USS Tautog so close when K-108 did a crazy ivan? Somebody screwed up. By the way, Dark Seas, you need better research...a US sub does not use active sonar when shadowing an enemy sub. Make any noise like a sonar ping, you might as well say, "Here I am, shoot me!"
Russian submarines can also sneak up to American shores.
You lose all credit ability when you start your click bait film claiming the US submarine was using active sonar.
We had a nuk sub cross behind our stern, a tanker with twin screws in 1967 in the North Atlantic, it was interesting to say the least 🦑
Let ush reshpond with a ping, enshign. One. Ping. Only.
007 in command of a russkie sub
So whose ship insurance is gonna pay for damages?
Both covered byGEICO so it was a wash 😁
USS DIXON AS 37 79-81 Point Loma Ca.
USS FORRESTAL CV 59 82-84 Mayport Fl.
Got the best of both worlds!
Bubble boats and Birdfarms.
Run silent run deep!
Fly Navy!
Submarines do not use active sonar they rely on passive sonar because if they ping it gives their position away to any other vessels in the area.
Pretty sure active sonar on a US sub is there for decoration only!
Less repetition. More empirical facts.
Just after this happened the Navy painted over all the numbers on the sails of the submarines in San Diego. Now none of the subs have numbers on their sails.
Then why do pictures of LA, Seawolf, and Ohio classes with hull numbers exist?
This happened in 1970 six years before LA commissioned, eleven before Ohio and decades prior to Seawolf.
I am glad nobody died on both sides. Though, I am certain many underwears met a grizzly demise that day.
So the US basically sunk a Soviet submarine? Lol
Chill people...I'm sure he ment passive detection, not merrily pinging away with sonar.
Greetings from Pakistan !
Seasons' Greetings !
Well narrated one-sided facts.
How cum these advanced gadgets fail in such a miserable way.
A massive collision just dents one submarine whistle the other is drowned, and when salvaged the damage is not shown.
Mind boggling !
BIG RED ARROW GO MMMMMMM
WOW!
this makes me want to watch Hostile Waters again.
'S*** happens. That's why they called it Krazy Ivan.
Did the ship get a battle star for destroying a Soviet Submarine?
And bringing home a prime example of the other side's propeller technology.
It would seem as though the leaders, and soldiers of superpowers, in this world are NOT interested in the prospect of peace, but rather, the preparation for war. It is sad, and wrong that since world war 1, many nations of the world are always ready for, and in eager anticipation of war, especially Our nation. What happened to state craft, and diplomacy in good faith ? Where is the draw down ? Why are war ships, and military bases not confined to their own territory ? Have we learned nothing, since the 2 times that the world was dragged into war, due to alliances that served no purpose, except death, destruction, terrorizing the masses, and the accumulation of power by the few ? I cannot be convinced that so many nations require all that they have in terms of military technology, or the number with which they are deployed, because it will lead to another brutal reality, of a world at war. 😔
Crazy Ivan became Psychotic
What I think I heard is possible insinuation that a "New-Old" sub and crew suddenly appeared after all those years Ya know I've got an old family Deed on a Bridge in New York, costing me much in maintenance, Real Happy to let it go Cheap
Crazy IVAAAAACCCKKKK!!!!
Nice script and footage. Awesome.
Why the whisper?
I wonder if the back channels of the US Navy contacted the USSR Navy to let them know what they suspected. Guessing not but in my eyes it would have been the right thing to do?
Ok smarty pants he got the active sonar thing wrong. No ones perfect.
If either of the subs had used active sonar the accident would not have happened
😊❤😊❤😊❤😊
😊
The first two pictures of Russian sub's #1 Echo,#2 November.
when sailor at control panel can't judge information from instruments submarines collide with something
Submareeeners?!!
Both pronunciations are correct.
These stupid TH-cam channels that don't know the first thing about what they are trying to make money off of need to be a thing of the past.
K108 was scrapped in 1990......
Spooky voice writers add lots of BS. All his channels have partial, misleading, or wrong information. Jump ahead to 5:34 or don't watch.
The story contradicts itself, American sailors heard the K108 break apart but the last part says Russia claim they all came home
Russians have a history of not reporting disasters. Prime example, their loss of several cosmonauts and not reporting it publicly.
Part of the reason the collision happened in the first place was a failure to precisely identify distances with the same instruments that wouldn't heard the sub "breaking apart".
Meanwhile a severe collision had indeed taken place, with plenty of damage and noise to be heard. So the implication made in the video would be that they 'thought' they heard it breaking apart but in reality they just heard the damage taking place.
However, the real contradiction to me would be the US crew's story being that they stuck around the scene for awhile, continuing to search for the Soviet sub and apparently not finding it. But again the instruments are called into question. - Surely there would be some significant evidence of the Soviet Sub's return and subsequent scrapping?
If not, maybe the story of it's return went mutually unchallenged for political reasons on both sides.
You believe the Russians!!! 😲 🤣🤣🤣
The Soviet sub did indeed survive and make it back to port.
And the Russians never lie about anything
The potential for atomic catastrophe caused by TWO or more submarines playing Blind Man's Bluff is horrific.
One day this "atomic game" will kill tens of millions over a submarine fender-bender.
You have a nearly infinite archive of photos and video clips of these boats and yet, you choose to loop the same clips over and over. DO BETTER
Yea it’s pathetic, even if they can’t get royalty free material I’d rather have an accurate photo.
❤😊❤😊❤😊❤
😊😊😊
Man.. I simply do not have the balls for that…🌹👍🙏
f..l usa
This has got to be one of the worst videos that claims to be an accurate depiction that I have ever seen.
Yeah, showing boomers whilst talking about a fast attack is pretty egregious!
Anyone else can't stand the over dramatic narration? Can't bear to watch this.
SO THIS SECRET INTEL VIDEO IS CLASSIFIED- AMAZING
Well unless I see a picture of the 108 I have my doubts?!
The Soviet sub was salvaged at the last minute by a tug and everyone survived?