World EXCLUSIVE: Pimax 12K UPDATE | CES 2024 | DEMO | CRYSTAL | NEWS | BIG FOV | AIRLINK
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- Hello Wingmen! Today I went to CES2024, and demoed elements of a Technology platform that will eventually evolve into the Pimax 12K Reality.
For a quality discount, use the following link:
pimax.com/?ref...
..and remember to use the coupon code: tallymouse
at the checkout!
Music: Darkside Alternative Cover by TallyMouse
#ces #pimax #crystal #12k #wigig
For the next 4-5 years, DFR is a fundamental pillar to be able to enjoy high resolution in headsets with consumer PCs in DCS and MSFS2020. At this time, DFR support in OpenXR for major flight sim titles is entirely relying on an open source project maintained by one single person. This is concerning.
You are not wrong. DFR needs to become native to flight sims in the same way that OpenXR itself is..
DFR is essential to 4k-per-eye headsets and beyond. If you turned off DFR on your Aero or Crystal and tried to run 100% resolution, your performance really suffers, even on a 4090. When we make the leap to 6k-per-eye and beyond, DFR will be an essential technology enabler.
Completely agree.
YAY! - good video. Thanks for the update. I am happy that the 12k isn't just vapor-ware, but is moving ahead as promised.
Please pancake lens. Please
Happy Crystal owner here, encouraging report on 12K. Many people don't understand or appreciate how pimax is trying to revolutionize things. No other company is pushing the envelope because it's so costly and risky.
Varjo are
@@hypersonicpiano6120 Somnium too
@@hypersonicpiano6120The xr-4 was launched in such a poor state that I would consider it a scam if not for varjo's reputation.
@@hypersonicpiano6120 but it's business enterprises focused unlike Pimax that are doing it in consumer level
@@hypersonicpiano6120aren’t Varjo more focusing on the business market?
And they ripped off all their customers before the significant price drop when the crystal came.
I read that human vision can distinguish details from the equivalent image size of 16Mpixels per eye. If the Pimax 12K is 6K per eye, that's amazing. Desktop GPUs aren't fast enough even for the current high-end VR headsets so there's a long road ahead, but that's how innovation goes.
With eye-tracking and DFR, you only need to render around 30% Horizontal and 30% Vertical where you're actually looking.. the rest can be rendered at 10% quality and you wouldn't notice because it's in your peripheral vision. I think the mid-term future is going to divide headsets that have eye-tracking and those that do not.
Great video! I've no idea why I'm not subbed, but I've just fixed that :)
Thank you, sir! Glad to have you here.
Hey guys, sorry but I need advice. I have saved enough for the XR4, should I just get a Q3, hold out for something from pimax etc or go ahead and get the XR4.
I just wanted the best headset to game on a 4090rtx for sim racing
My crystal headset is a beast ! So happy with it
Thanks, Tally! A very nice bit of good news after following you on a cool flight around the Mach Loop. Pretty good week, I'd say. Cheers!
I hope that DFR becomes a always on feature, luckily (thanks for that!!) it works in DCS but ACC or AM2 or other games are not serviced with DFR. If it's a always on the 12k will be a HMD killer!!
Looking forward to buying the 12k!!
Same here
When is the projected release date?
Awesome video! Thanks, TallyMouse for a snick-pick from CES! Love your jokes about the Holy Grail! 😆
Loving this video and your humor. Great Stuff!
i just hope 12k gets more than 150degree fov, or i will be stuck with my 8k forever. i tested different fovs recently and anything lower than that is realy uncomfortable, even a little claustrophobic. i have no idea how people can endure that.
The Quest3 is a great headset, and people who scuba dive will find that they're right at home..
@@tallymouse i have actually been thinking about getting my mom one for her birthday. Q3 is pretty decent for the prize and there is no need to install base-stations etc.
its a good headset from what i read online, its just not for me.
@@tomduke1297 I think your mom would love the Q3 - as it's very accessible, and doesn't come with the encumbrance of needing to understand PCVR etc.. can just work standalone with a whole bunch of games/apps.. especially the MR aspect, you really can do cooking, for example, while watching a youtube video that you've glued to the wall next to the stove! It's like having a virtual TV that you can carry around the house with you!
@@tallymouse that sounds pretty awesome! ;)
I've had my eye on the 12k for at least a year at this point. My first VR headset was a Rift S, and I assumed, incorrectly, that due to it needing to be hooked to a PC, that it was a very high quality headset. Years later, I've used it a grand total of 4 hours because after even 10 minutes of wearing it, the eye strain it gives me is enough to cause me to feel nautious and have a severe headache that lasts all day. Part of this, I believe, is due to needing to wear glasses and the headset having poor/no lens correction, as well as VERY low image quality. Even playing Skyrim, an insanely easy game for a 4090 to run, renders in, I would guess, 480p per eye. I am VERY hopeful that the 12K is the headset I've been waiting for and judging from this quick peek, it seems to be shaping up to be just that.
If done well, I think it's going to trigger a new wave of higher resolution displays and better optics throughout the industry!
@tallymouse I truly hope so because the more VR & AR gets, the more we won't have to stipulate on situations analogous to reality. In layman's terms: the closer we get to being able to merge the day-to-day with VR/AR overlays, the more we'll be able to merge the two together without needing barriers such as being tied to a computer or having to separate a monitor from a headset.
The primary concern I have with VR/AR is strictly due to how it becomes integrated into everyday life. A high framerate displays will pave the way for future businesses to do away completely with boardrooms, such as how access to high-speed internet has almost completely done away with the need for localized call centers. Most office work can be done at your own home, and in a far more comfortable environment, production has shown to be increased compared to offices where employees feel watched.
They aren't adding components to the Crystal skeleton... the Crystal was built on the 12K skeleton. =D
This the reason why the Crystal is much bigger than it needs to be for the given FOV.. it is using the same chassis as the 12K to reduce costs.
You may say that, and I couldn't possibly comment, or confirm or deny...
@@tallymouseThat's how it was.. the 12K was on the roadmap before the Crystal. Pimax themselves have said many times that they share the same housing to reduce manufacturing cost. If they changed the housing for the 12K I imagine it would only have been due to necessity.
@stevetb7777 yes, i know.. i was just trying to NDA..
So this wasnt the 12k, it was the crystal super ? Am I right ?
Thx for sharing buddy! Really looking forward for the next step!
8K per eye with great optics is the sweet spot when we are talking about wide fov but it will take some time for tech to catch up with that!
Another happy crystal owner here, that was very skeptical about what I'd heard so far about the 12kx. This video brings me hope that perhaps pimax are in fact on the right track! 🙂
Yes thats right, I almost forgot about the Large FOV lenses. Pimax still owes me a pair of either the 42 ppd lenses or the larger FOV 35 ppd for 49 dollars.
Me too!
Large ? How much large. Specs says 125 deg, in real it is 102-105 deg.
@supersprit5733 the BIG FOV lenses add about 10deg to whatever HFOV you are currently seeing.
Took a long time for anything to come out about it in a testing capacity but nice to hear something is finally coming to fruition, was the fov fairly large like how older pimax headsets are
Very exciting, thank you!
im buying the 12k.
Great vids. May I ask, when you are refering to the battery and mentioning PCVR, does it means that the platform provided no longer have a batteray and no longer have a AIO system?
It's early days, of course, but it would appear that the 12k would be heading along the direction of a pure PCVR headset, and that it's possible that the AIO side of things would continue on in another new branch of headsets. This makes sense, because it's clear that the simmer market and the standalone market do not overlap much i.e. you're either FPS/VR Chat, or you're MSFS/DCS, with a few people doing all.
However, time will tell...
@@tallymouse Thanks for clarifying
I guess Pimax isn't telling us anything because they want you to tell us instead...
Thankyou for your great writeup Wingleader. You tested the prototype wide FOVs and were the only tester I watched who didnt have a big problem with the bino overlap. Did you get a chance to test these close to production wide FOVs? Did you notice any improvement? Cheers Tally.
To add as an engineer myself based on what I am surmising from this report re state of play, would be amazed if 12k is released before Q4 2024, which isnt a bad thing because I think we are going to need 5080s or 5090s to drive this beast. I feel the sweetspot is going to be the Crystal with wide FOV lenses or the VR1 for at least the next year or two.
With ET, DFR, Quadviews I run my Crystal native at 120hz and am HZ limited on a now 4 year old GPU so its the Game played that limits performance only @alexsepulveda2703
Can you expand on "bino overlap"? Is that when the stereo (ie. 3D) effect isn't as strong (ie. not as much depth perception) as it's supposed to be? I heard from a few people that the "other" Pimax headsets like the 5K, 8K have this compared to non-Pimax headsets therefore the 3D effect in those Pimax headsets - while definitely still there & strong - aren't as strong as they're supposed to be. However, I heard this was corrected/fixed with the Crystal...
Nice, but are you really saying the viewing distance (clarity) in the 12K Pimax Reality is well beyond the current high fidelity 35 PPD of the Crystal? I would be amazed at this if they managed to retain the promised 210 degrees of horizontal display. I bet they've developed a super high 6K per eye PPD at something like 170 degrees and that is what you are looking though. Still impressive but we want to know what the 210 degeree Reality is like.
When you strain to look fully left and right in normal life you cannot achieve complete stereoscopic vision because you nose occludes part of your vision. Also, if you try to read a book when it's 105degrees off the centerline axis of your head, you'll realize you don't necessarily need 35ppd all the way out to 210degrees. I'm not commenting here on what I saw in the technology demonstrator.. but remember that lenses can be made to have high ppd within the central 'glancing about' region, and lower ppd in the extremities.. with that logic, you don't need to linearly maintain ppd across your whole FOV. I'd personally be happy if I had 40ppd in the middle 120deg, and then, say 20ppd, in the remainder, because at extreme angles of eye movement, i'd naturally move my head anyway..
Very Good info!
Hopefully it has good binocular overlap. I had weird eye strain with the 8KX.
great video, sad i couldnt be there.
can you comment on the weight of the prototype? compared to the weight of the current crystal headset, did it feel similar?
personnally waiting for the 12K cuz Im not impressed with xtal''s fov coming from a pimax5K+(which I still enjoy using after almost 5 years now)
5k+ is a solid headset!
Wel owning a crystal right now I'm waiting for the lens upgrade. Not sure if I would go for the 12K version...higher resolution = heavier load on the GPU...and my 4090 is already struggling in msfs2020.
Mate, let’s be honest… if you own a Crystal and a 4090, you’ll be getting a 12K haha. I know I sure as hell would be. 😅
@granthartley it's tempting but still I won't be the first to buy. I will let someone else test it first.
It's not your GPU struggling at all. It's the bandwidth limitation, that causes all the issues.
I wonder if the wireless module would work with the 12K though
Roomer has it, that the 12K is to be out 1st Q of 2025. Was thinking of getting the Crystal Light or Super. But this looks like the beast I want the most. And I can wait.
I don't want to be paying the price of the Crystal, only for the 12K to be out, before I even finish paying off the Crystal, and than having to pay for that after also, if I want it.
It will be one, or the other. And I want the 12K.
And by then I should be getting a new PC with one or two RTX 5090s. Will be needing that, if I want something that can handle two 6K displays, even at 90hz each.
This is the super lol not the 12k
@@drmikehuntphd7905 I did watch the video. And I was not talking about the video. Though, the video did talk about both the crystal and the 12K, to some extent. Noting in the video said anything about the super, even once.
What I was talking about is some online roomers, that the 12K, not the super, is to be out 1st Q of 2025.
But is all just an unconfirmed roomer. Some have been spitting out dates for the 12K to be out, as far back as 2023. So I take the roomer, as serous as a robot actor having a heart attack.
On a side note: I would not confuse someone texting "super", for the 12K. If they typed in "12K", for what they was taking about, I mean I seen them talk about the 12K. Feel me? O.o
Pimax should hire hypervision so they get 200+ degree fov.
So this was the Crystal Super prototype?
Nope.. it was a technology testbed for both 12k, the swappable optical stack wasn't obvious on the platform I tried.
@@tallymouse but this has the big lenses of the super? and maybe the panels also... and the FOV was about what the super promises?
I dont mean like proper prototype of SUPER, but like early testbed for it.
@@Nobody-Nowhere As you'd have seen from the latest Pimax video.. the 12k is still under development, and will be a leap beyond the Super
@@tallymouse On the stream with MRTV they actually confirmed that this was indeed the Super prototype. They do say that 12k is still in development, but that has 200 degree FOV, so it needs different type of lenses.
Idk why tally is arguing with you lol, this was the crystal super prototype
Will there be a graphics card on the market large enough to support a 12k without costing 10k for the card
The one I tested was running on a laptop! DFR is the key to all future hugh-res headaets. I cannot see why it wouldn't run on a 3080..
when do you think the pimax 12k will be release ?
Yes - though after the Crystal Super
Kind of sums it up though for VR..... the demo is the now several years old tech demo Aircar. Not exactly a cutting edge OR demanding piece of software
I don't think that was AirCar. It was Low-Fi beta.
Hi, Jaap here. I sometimes like to demo Air Car. No controls, no need to explain any gameplay. Just look! And the graphics hold up very well.
What was that realistic car sim that on your video please 0:54 ? It looked like a motorway simulation so vivid.
John Major's glasses!
It's what happens if you embraced NHS glasses as a child and survived the continual schoolground beatings to survive through to adulthood!
I'm guessing they are using a RTX 4090?
Was on a laptop..
You were testing the Wi-Fi gig module and probably the lighthouse module
Good luck getting a pimax to turn on mine still wont turn on after nearly 2 years of owning one.
mixed reality faceplate update ???
The team who has been working on it has done A LOT of work already - many iterations ahead of (some) competitors with many revisions into functioning prototypes. Barrel distortion profiles, 1-1 tracking etc all have profiles for each IPD setting, and each lens type needs that too. The need to ensure that all parameterization has been addressed (for each upcoming headset too), before they will commit to a launch.
"I can see extreme details in sim at distance way beyond what I can currently see in the Crystal"?
How is this possible when Josh said 12K cannot possibly be better than the Crystal visually? Someone is not telling the truth.
Pimax not telling the truth? Whaaaat?
This was a technology demonstrator, so the lens system did not necessarily represent full human FOV. As an example, if you put a 6k oanel together with the Crystal's lenses, you'd naturally end up with better resolution- although, if you were to match those same displays with an ultra high FOV lens system, then you may well end up back at 35ppd.
I was only reporting on what I saw, and as I do not work for Pimax, I have no skin in the game other than telling what I saw and how I saw it, within the confines of what I am permitted, at this stage, to divulge.
@@tallymouse Okay, so it's not the 200 degree FOV? Can you tell it is a wide lenses since there should be two lenses overlapping one another?
Edit: Okay, so on the video, you show picture of the Crystal and Technology Demonstrator together. Is this a real side by side comparison with the Crystal? That is a huge lenses and the overall size of the housing is much bigger?
@@reptilexcq2 unfortunately,.i am not at liberty to say 🤨
@@tallymouse Crystal X
Did they have lenses for like 8KX style FOV at higher pixel densities?
All.I can say is that they have a number of options and methods that I saw, based around the goal of giving you the best of bith worlds: high clarity and very large FOV.
Thank you for the reply.
Micro led curvy screen ....under 1 inch, would almost require no lens...
👏👏👏
I think you put too much value on kidneys and children, but they may just be me and my opinion. Regardless, good video.
Sometimes children are more expensive than a kidney - or at least feel like it!
So FOV was in the range of Crystal?!
I'm very curious if they can provide a real large FOV at this kind of clarity...
I'd also like to know... FOV for me matters more than clarity
Then get 8kx.
not for sale anymore
no battery? no janky hub?
Yup...no battery!
FOV?
FOV!
@@tallymouse Compared to base Crystal, how much more FOV?
@georgetazberik6834 i am not permitted, right now to divulge specific numbers - but if you were to ask me if all lens systems were MORE than Crystal, i could not possibly confirm nor deny..
fair enough
I wish Pimax would fix their Crystal software before they start work on a new headset. Pimax Play will sometimes lock up my PC requiring a hard reboot. It also causes my browser and ham radio software to crash at times. The only solution I've found is to restart the PC after I'm finished using the headset.
It's more likely the same software and it's also more likely that the Crystal is just a by-product on their way to 12K...
12k is ridiculous. Very few GPUs are powerful enough to run games on the Pimax Crystal at highest resolution. There's no PC and GPU that would even be able to take advantage of full 12k. @@NanaHoshi35
I like pimax because they are really try to bring best viewing experience much more than other companies , we all know the future is based on VR and AR , maybe pimax is not the big company but they are more serious to improve VR even more than big VR companies
They are willing to take a risk.. and pushing things forward, regardless of the company, benefits all of us!
@@tallymouse exactly .. improvement is always based on risk . I guess that's why chinese company are so successful in last 10 years , I hope that major VR developers will start making great games and good applications sooner. Valve took a risk by making Half-Life: Alyx and made a good profit. Of course, now it is no longer a risk to make major VR titles because there are 50 million headsets out there.
Good luck affording a computer that can run that with any kind of smoothness or graphics!
It was running on a laptop! To understand how, you need to understand DFR.
LOL
I hope that's a good lol 😆
@@tallymouse for sure
Chinese blah blah
I didn't se any news like release date or price
We entered the trade in program more than a year ago
Years of promises but no Headset