Oh, yeah, and St. Jerome's Letter 60 about St. Nepotian, and how the guy was not just a priest and apologist and ex-soldier, but also an artist who decorated the basilica and the martyr graves. He was just drawing floral and vine motifs, not portraits like a pro, but it is pretty nice about early Christian art on the walls of early Christian churches.
I forgot to say that there is a lot of Jewish religious art from Roman times which includes pictures of patriarchs, prophets, etc. The Met in New York has glass plates placed on Jewish and Christian tombs, painted in gold with saints or miracle scenes. The Jewish one has the three young men in the fiery furnace, which looks really cool in gold.
Okay, some people think it is Christian. Because the middle inscription says "Live" but it is written so it looks like "Jesus," and either the same man or an angel of the Lord is standing by all the miracle scenes, and that might be Christ. It has the fiery furnace and Tobias and probably Cana and the paralytic, so it does look Christian. Christ with the rod of a Roman commander is a pretty fun idea.
Ok...so signet rings in ancient ancient Mesopotamia and Egypt were usually pictures of pagan gods, although sometimes you got a hero or a secular scene. The idea was that the gods might help protect against fraud. We have very early Christian signet seals from Roman Egypt, and there was a touring art exhibit that included them, about ten years ago. Christians started using Christ and the saints in signet art and so did pagan occultists, and sometimes the syncretist crowd used both. So then Christians shied away from depicting Christ, to avoid looking like pagans and occultists. When Egypt was finally mostly Christian, IIRC the art of Christ and the saints was used bigtime again. Similar things happened with picture tapestries and picture clothing. There were also issues of fittingness, if people were wearing a robe with a sacred picture woven into it, but doing everyday things and maybe even sinning while wearing it. Or spending money on the robe but not on helping the poor. All of St. Clement's suitable motifs for Christian signet ring designs, however, are Christian symbols: the dove for the Holy Spirit, the harp/lyre for the Church or the angels or David, the anchor for hope (see Hebr. 6:19), the ichthys fish, a fisherman drawing in nets, and so on. These are pictures if holy things, even if outsiders do not know. The sword and the bow are also symbols of God, but St. Clement says they would give the wrong impression. Drinking vessels would include things like the chalice of Mass and the Jewish blessing cup of Sabbath; and again these are nixed as giving the wrong impression to outsiders.
Gavin strikes me as a somewhat charitable anticatholic which sounds oxymoronic. Catholic apologists have been too passive with him. Being charitable does not exclude strong criticism of his stances. Gavin is very good at introducing false nuances to defend his views while erasing them completely on topics he criticises. I don't know why Catholics are falling for his videos without questioning or engaging their content in Gavin's comment section. They just assume that it s all true , then they thank Gavin and start panicking. Is it Gavin's external niceties and charitable tone that beguile them ? Charity in these oecumenical dialogues is only the minimum (though important) prerequisite, get to the bottom of his content and stop that childish bilievism .
Oh, yeah, and St. Jerome's Letter 60 about St. Nepotian, and how the guy was not just a priest and apologist and ex-soldier, but also an artist who decorated the basilica and the martyr graves. He was just drawing floral and vine motifs, not portraits like a pro, but it is pretty nice about early Christian art on the walls of early Christian churches.
I forgot to say that there is a lot of Jewish religious art from Roman times which includes pictures of patriarchs, prophets, etc. The Met in New York has glass plates placed on Jewish and Christian tombs, painted in gold with saints or miracle scenes. The Jewish one has the three young men in the fiery furnace, which looks really cool in gold.
Okay, some people think it is Christian. Because the middle inscription says "Live" but it is written so it looks like "Jesus," and either the same man or an angel of the Lord is standing by all the miracle scenes, and that might be Christ.
It has the fiery furnace and Tobias and probably Cana and the paralytic, so it does look Christian.
Christ with the rod of a Roman commander is a pretty fun idea.
Hit the wrong link. The Jewish grave bowl/dish has menorahs all over it, plus a shofar, a Torah ark, an etrog fruit, and a Messianic fish dinner.
Ok...so signet rings in ancient ancient Mesopotamia and Egypt were usually pictures of pagan gods, although sometimes you got a hero or a secular scene. The idea was that the gods might help protect against fraud.
We have very early Christian signet seals from Roman Egypt, and there was a touring art exhibit that included them, about ten years ago.
Christians started using Christ and the saints in signet art and so did pagan occultists, and sometimes the syncretist crowd used both. So then Christians shied away from depicting Christ, to avoid looking like pagans and occultists. When Egypt was finally mostly Christian, IIRC the art of Christ and the saints was used bigtime again.
Similar things happened with picture tapestries and picture clothing. There were also issues of fittingness, if people were wearing a robe with a sacred picture woven into it, but doing everyday things and maybe even sinning while wearing it. Or spending money on the robe but not on helping the poor.
All of St. Clement's suitable motifs for Christian signet ring designs, however, are Christian symbols: the dove for the Holy Spirit, the harp/lyre for the Church or the angels or David, the anchor for hope (see Hebr. 6:19), the ichthys fish, a fisherman drawing in nets, and so on. These are pictures if holy things, even if outsiders do not know.
The sword and the bow are also symbols of God, but St. Clement says they would give the wrong impression.
Drinking vessels would include things like the chalice of Mass and the Jewish blessing cup of Sabbath; and again these are nixed as giving the wrong impression to outsiders.
Thanks for letting me talk so much about this in comments, as I have more time today. Sorry I missed the livestream!!
William putting in that work as usual 💒🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Gavin strikes me as a somewhat charitable anticatholic which sounds oxymoronic. Catholic apologists have been too passive with him. Being charitable does not exclude strong criticism of his stances. Gavin is very good at introducing false nuances to defend his views while erasing them completely on topics he criticises. I don't know why Catholics are falling for his videos without questioning or engaging their content in Gavin's comment section. They just assume that it s all true , then they thank Gavin and start panicking. Is it Gavin's external niceties and charitable tone that beguile them ? Charity in these oecumenical dialogues is only the minimum (though important) prerequisite, get to the bottom of his content and stop that childish bilievism .
Gavin is demonic!
@@bersules8 really your bringing his family and parents into this
@@bersules8 your comment is so far out of line. Satan's arrows are spewing from your mouth.
for some of you guys it since long not about charity anymore, because you act like haters...
@@stefang.9763 this guy is in the majority. Even the people who think Gavin isn't being honest with the data won't bring up his family.
Awesome work thank you William
I pray for Gavin to return to the One True Catholic faith before its too late.
Good stuff! Thank you! Looks like Ortlund used some dubious sources and took some out of context.
God bless you