i loved hearing the team talk about the low level details of the async stuff. i guess thats not exactly the point of these meetings, but it felt more "community"ish then some of the others. Not clear if everyone talking is a mojo dev but you guys ask the best questions sense you really get what's going on and the implications. hearing the discussion helps non experts understand the deeper issues being solved by mojo. i would love to see more of it. maybe a different series on the channel.
Thanks Connor! Sorry I couldn't make it for the meeting. I figured that there wouldn't be a silver bullet. I am more wondering from a design perspective, how built in reference counting may end up being surfaced. In Rust philosophy it would be "&{type}" for the majority case and fall back to something like"Arc" which makes reference counting seem like a second class type despite being the sane choice in many programs where you just need to get the job done. I could imagine a language could go on either extreme and say that there is no special references and have OriginRef and CountedRef. Or the other extreme of saying there is one reference and the compiler will decide how it is used. I think of Swift with the one reference. It has reference counting which always is allocated, but incrementing and decrementing often getting optimized out by the compiler. Rust always feels awkward when reaching for another reference type even when I know that I need it.
Will Modular be updating their community license so that Mojo is without any doubt open source? Section 6 (Fees) is a rug pull waiting to happen for anyone considering building with Mojo thinking it will remain open source.
AFAIK, if you are writing code for CPU, you can do whatever you want. If you are writing code GPUs, don't build a commercial service that deals mainly with on-cloud inference and training of AI models without consulting with modular (you can build one for yourself or on-perm as much as you like but not commercial) and beyond that, you can do whatever you want. I think the main audience for this license if enteties like AWS, Azure how are used to just copy-paste open source projects and not really normal people.
Even if the compiler goes open source (this is not a guarantee), that does not change the wording of the license unless Modular officially changes it (which is the purpose of the question above).
i loved hearing the team talk about the low level details of the async stuff. i guess thats not exactly the point of these meetings, but it felt more "community"ish then some of the others. Not clear if everyone talking is a mojo dev but you guys ask the best questions sense you really get what's going on and the implications. hearing the discussion helps non experts understand the deeper issues being solved by mojo. i would love to see more of it. maybe a different series on the channel.
Thanks Connor! Sorry I couldn't make it for the meeting. I figured that there wouldn't be a silver bullet. I am more wondering from a design perspective, how built in reference counting may end up being surfaced. In Rust philosophy it would be "&{type}" for the majority case and fall back to something like"Arc" which makes reference counting seem like a second class type despite being the sane choice in many programs where you just need to get the job done.
I could imagine a language could go on either extreme and say that there is no special references and have OriginRef and CountedRef. Or the other extreme of saying there is one reference and the compiler will decide how it is used. I think of Swift with the one reference. It has reference counting which always is allocated, but incrementing and decrementing often getting optimized out by the compiler.
Rust always feels awkward when reaching for another reference type even when I know that I need it.
Lots of question on Rust vs Mojo.
it was fun presentation
Will Modular be updating their community license so that Mojo is without any doubt open source? Section 6 (Fees) is a rug pull waiting to happen for anyone considering building with Mojo thinking it will remain open source.
AFAIK, if you are writing code for CPU, you can do whatever you want. If you are writing code GPUs, don't build a commercial service that deals mainly with on-cloud inference and training of AI models without consulting with modular (you can build one for yourself or on-perm as much as you like but not commercial) and beyond that, you can do whatever you want. I think the main audience for this license if enteties like AWS, Azure how are used to just copy-paste open source projects and not really normal people.
That is your interpretation of what you've HEARD. Have you read the license?
Modular has already given a timeline of when they're aiming to opensource Mojo's compiler - Q4 2026
Even if the compiler goes open source (this is not a guarantee), that does not change the wording of the license unless Modular officially changes it (which is the purpose of the question above).
Thank you for the feedback. We're listening and will have more to share on this topic in the future.