great video and very informational. i have had a number of machinist come thru my shop, 30+ yrs of experience and many have not idea that you need to "gronk" these collets tight, like most things in the machine shop. when i u was teaching machining i always found students under tightening everything from tool posts to tool holders. scary!
Awesome video! Thanks for all of the great info. One bit of info that I would add: If your tool has a shoulder on it, like your slitting saw arbor in the video, you never want to bottom it out in the collet. If you do you can end up clamping down on the small radius in the corner of the shoulder. After some time it can slip off the corner and your tool will pull right out.
Very, very helpful! Thanks! Had no idea collet nuts actually have a torq spec. Have had them way looser than they should be. I use a small bench vise as a tightening fixture, the jaws of the vise fit nicely in the tang slots of the holder, works ok too.
Good video Tim. One Question, I've never used the stop pin before but if you have to reset it each time wouldn't that defeat the purpose? How would you use is as a stop for the next tool or if you remove and replace the tool and want to use the stop to eliminate a reset? Or is that not what they're used for? Thanks
Thanks Steve, The stop screw is not to eliminate a tool length reset. They are used to prevent the tool from getting pushed into the tool holder. Like if you where doing some heavy drilling the bit could get pushed back into the holder. The stop screw is there to prevent that from happening. Tightening the collet nut with a tool against the stop screw is not recommended because it does not allow the collet to shrink up properly.
It's fun to watch the table that the tool tightening fixture is mounted to at work flex as we tighten ER collet tools like this. Maybe we need a better table... or to bolt it to the floor.
The one for the ER32 collets is from Techniks. But it uses a special wrench, so I just bought a cheap impact socket from Harbor Freight and welded it onto the crows foot to use a standard torque wrench. The other crows foot for the ER16 is just a 1" crows foot you can get just about anywhere.
Hi Dave, yeah, I could not find them either.But if you take Techniks part number 04604-32 plus Harbor Freight part number 61991 plus cut off saw plus a Mig welder plus a grinder = what you see in video ;)
No Problem, it was a little backyard engineering. Good test for your welds though, if it breaks you end up on your butt when you try and put 100 lbs-ft on that sucker ;)
Yes, you can buy the correct wrench from Techniks direct. I'm just to cheap to spend $300ish on a wrench. I actually find the harbor freight wrenches to be a very good value. I have had them calibrated and they where within a few percent. Even after use they hold there cal. I get those for $20 with a coupon ;)
HI SKI, I will comment on what was made tomorrow ;) I did not film it because it is a personal gift for my wife and my son and I made it together. Was focusing on shop safety and having quality Father Son time. But anytime you need to break out a 2.5" by 1/16" slitting saw you know your in deep, LOL
We made Mom a custom picture frame. Used draft sight to make the standard text, then imported into Fusion 360 for CAM. Took a picture of my sons writing and did a spline trace to put his signature on it. The slitting saw was to make the slot for the back to slide into. We bought a cheap frame for donor parts.
I've always been a bit surprised at how many don't seem to know the torque specifications for the various ER collet sizes. And it's odd that the manufacturers don't seem to supply any information about the needed torque with the collets or chucks. If my information is correct I believe Rego - Fix were the inventors of the ER collets and there web site is where I first learned what the correct torque values are. Since I'm using a non cnc Bridgeport clone I'm changing tools and collets for a change in tool shank diameter within the same collet chuck. Most with CNC would be using multiple collet chucks. But I think adding a bit of oil to the chuck threads gives more consistent torque, and sure cuts down on the wear on both the chuck and the nut threads.
Hello Turning point, check out Techniks web site www.techniksusa.com/ under the support tab there is the recommended torque settings for all the different sizes of collets. They also have pull stud and set screw torques. A little oil on the threads and the OD of the collet is ok, just be careful no oil gets on the shank.
Thanks for the link to the Techniks site. There torque specifications match what Rego - Fix has on there site as well. Yep I'm careful that the tool shank stays dry.
@@alexcalibasi7028 depends on manufacturer they are typically called a weldon shank end mill. The weldon flat is just the flat on the end mill if you ask for a weldon flat you never know what you'll get since they are used on drills, end mills, rotabroachs and a number of other tools.
If you have a tool you want to use in a set screw holder but it doesn't have a flat, it really isn't hard to grind one. Use a green wheel for grinding carbide. The bonus of this is that you get to decide where the flat is, and therefore the stick out of the tool.
Dave, finding accurate info on the history is proving difficult. I have some books I may reference. But I have so many video requests it may be some time before I get to this one.
Larger end mills require more torque so the larger end mill holders usually have two set screws in them. End mills should NOT be run in a drill chuck. You can get Morse Taper end mill holders with both draw at and tang type shanks if you must do some light duty milling sub- 1hp.
Yeah, ER collets do not extremely tightly grip shanks. The next thing I would say is to use a 100TG/TG100 type collet chuck if you must need a high grip force. There's a lot of history behind the CAT(erpillar) style shank. There's also a CAT style shank with a international style flange to a DIN Specification, usually DIN 69871 or DIN 69872 and usually only varies in the flange. There is also a ANSI and ISO Specification for the same. The number 40 refers to the 40mm taper used. The set screws of end mill holders will usually force the end mill against the internal grind of the end mill holder by some amount, and will induce "some" runout, and it varies. I prefer using a collet of some sort for drilling. I also suggest using a ultrasonic cleaner for cleaning collets. Collets are also consumable and do wear. Worn collets should be replaced as they are unsafe.. and industry usually replaces them in use at specified intervals to prevent accidents.
All very good points, you could use a drill chuck for milling if you wanted to make things exciting I guess ;) Anything 1" and up has 2 set screws from what I have seen. Pull studs, collets, and tool holders are all wear items. The main difference between the really pricey and the cheap tool holders in the grade of steel and its hardness. The cheap ones just wear faster.
Hello Akshay, I have a lot of videos on the general concepts and operation of machines. Check out my channels play list, I try to group them logically. If there is something specific your looking for let me know and I will see if we can make a video.
great video and very informational. i have had a number of machinist come thru my shop, 30+ yrs of experience and many have not idea that you need to "gronk" these collets tight, like most things in the machine shop. when i u was teaching machining i always found students under tightening everything from tool posts to tool holders. scary!
They will learn really quick when the end mill gets pulled out of the collet then the start of the next cut gets REALLY heavy!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Awesome video! Thanks for all of the great info. One bit of info that I would add: If your tool has a shoulder on it, like your slitting saw arbor in the video, you never want to bottom it out in the collet. If you do you can end up clamping down on the small radius in the corner of the shoulder. After some time it can slip off the corner and your tool will pull right out.
Yes, always leave some space! Good points
Very, very helpful! Thanks! Had no idea collet nuts actually have a torq spec. Have had them way looser than they should be. I use a small bench vise as a tightening fixture, the jaws of the vise fit nicely in the tang slots of the holder, works ok too.
Nice, I want to see you machine the whole tool holder though next time! This Old Tony did a few.
Very informative video.
Good video Tim. One Question, I've never used the stop pin before but if you have to reset it each time wouldn't that defeat the purpose? How would you use is as a stop for the next tool or if you remove and replace the tool and want to use the stop to eliminate a reset? Or is that not what they're used for?
Thanks
Thanks Steve, The stop screw is not to eliminate a tool length reset. They are used to prevent the tool from getting pushed into the tool holder. Like if you where doing some heavy drilling the bit could get pushed back into the holder. The stop screw is there to prevent that from happening. Tightening the collet nut with a tool against the stop screw is not recommended because it does not allow the collet to shrink up properly.
I see. Thanks Tim.
It's fun to watch the table that the tool tightening fixture is mounted to at work flex as we tighten ER collet tools like this. Maybe we need a better table... or to bolt it to the floor.
Nice, I have mine bolted to the wall and it is made out of 2x6.
Do you have a link for where I can find that crow's foot socket?
The one for the ER32 collets is from Techniks. But it uses a special wrench, so I just bought a cheap impact socket from Harbor Freight and welded it onto the crows foot to use a standard torque wrench. The other crows foot for the ER16 is just a 1" crows foot you can get just about anywhere.
Ever seen that method where they grind a point to make it even more rigid
hi I like your videos, you are good guy
Thank you, much appreciated.
Soooo.... where did you get your crowsfoots for a standard torque wrench. They seem to be a rarity.
Hi Dave, yeah, I could not find them either.But if you take Techniks part number 04604-32 plus Harbor Freight part number 61991 plus cut off saw plus a Mig welder plus a grinder = what you see in video ;)
Ahh so. Will give that a go. Thanks
No Problem, it was a little backyard engineering. Good test for your welds though, if it breaks you end up on your butt when you try and put 100 lbs-ft on that sucker ;)
Yes, you can buy the correct wrench from Techniks direct. I'm just to cheap to spend $300ish on a wrench. I actually find the harbor freight wrenches to be a very good value. I have had them calibrated and they where within a few percent. Even after use they hold there cal. I get those for $20 with a coupon ;)
i hear ya there on the price...stupid expensive.
Great vid Tim. What were the Christmas gifts you were making, and will you post a vid of the process? Thanks again...........SKI
HI SKI, I will comment on what was made tomorrow ;) I did not film it because it is a personal gift for my wife and my son and I made it together. Was focusing on shop safety and having quality Father Son time. But anytime you need to break out a 2.5" by 1/16" slitting saw you know your in deep, LOL
We made Mom a custom picture frame. Used draft sight to make the standard text, then imported into Fusion 360 for CAM. Took a picture of my sons writing and did a spline trace to put his signature on it. The slitting saw was to make the slot for the back to slide into. We bought a cheap frame for donor parts.
I've always been a bit surprised at how many don't seem to know the torque specifications for the various ER collet sizes. And it's odd that the manufacturers don't seem to supply any information about the needed torque with the collets or chucks. If my information is correct I believe Rego - Fix were the inventors of the ER collets and there web site is where I first learned what the correct torque values are. Since I'm using a non cnc Bridgeport clone I'm changing tools and collets for a change in tool shank diameter within the same collet chuck. Most with CNC would be using multiple collet chucks. But I think adding a bit of oil to the chuck threads gives more consistent torque, and sure cuts down on the wear on both the chuck and the nut threads.
Hello Turning point, check out Techniks web site www.techniksusa.com/ under the support tab there is the recommended torque settings for all the different sizes of collets. They also have pull stud and set screw torques. A little oil on the threads and the OD of the collet is ok, just be careful no oil gets on the shank.
Thanks for the link to the Techniks site. There torque specifications match what Rego - Fix has on there site as well. Yep I'm careful that the tool shank stays dry.
good video the endmills with flats are called weldon shanks.
Thank you, I thought I mentioned that once in the video? Maybe I forgot to.
Weldon flat
@@alexcalibasi7028 depends on manufacturer they are typically called a weldon shank end mill. The weldon flat is just the flat on the end mill if you ask for a weldon flat you never know what you'll get since they are used on drills, end mills, rotabroachs and a number of other tools.
Just tighten it by hand, then hit wrench 3 times with hammer. Done, always works.
If you have a tool you want to use in a set screw holder but it doesn't have a flat, it really isn't hard to grind one. Use a green wheel for grinding carbide. The bonus of this is that you get to decide where the flat is, and therefore the stick out of the tool.
Yes, grinding your own flats is common, as well as reduced shanks, radius, and many others. I just try to order what I need ahead of time.
Another good one ...can you give some information on that tightening fixture you have?
Yes, it is just a standard CAT40 fixture, you can get them from a number of places. That one is from Technics.
Yes we need a history lesson!
Dave, finding accurate info on the history is proving difficult. I have some books I may reference. But I have so many video requests it may be some time before I get to this one.
Larger end mills require more torque so the larger end mill holders usually have two set screws in them. End mills should NOT be run in a drill chuck. You can get Morse Taper end mill holders with both draw at and tang type shanks if you must do some light duty milling sub- 1hp.
Yeah, ER collets do not extremely tightly grip shanks. The next thing I would say is to use a 100TG/TG100 type collet chuck if you must need a high grip force.
There's a lot of history behind the CAT(erpillar) style shank. There's also a CAT style shank with a international style flange to a DIN Specification, usually DIN 69871 or DIN 69872 and usually only varies in the flange. There is also a ANSI and ISO Specification for the same. The number 40 refers to the 40mm taper used.
The set screws of end mill holders will usually force the end mill against the internal grind of the end mill holder by some amount, and will induce "some" runout, and it varies.
I prefer using a collet of some sort for drilling.
I also suggest using a ultrasonic cleaner for cleaning collets. Collets are also consumable and do wear. Worn collets should be replaced as they are unsafe.. and industry usually replaces them in use at specified intervals to prevent accidents.
All very good points, you could use a drill chuck for milling if you wanted to make things exciting I guess ;) Anything 1" and up has 2 set screws from what I have seen. Pull studs, collets, and tool holders are all wear items. The main difference between the really pricey and the cheap tool holders in the grade of steel and its hardness. The cheap ones just wear faster.
I am new in cnc machining. I am working in a company as a cnc operator. I am want to learn all setup work. Please guide me. Thank you
Hello Akshay, I have a lot of videos on the general concepts and operation of machines. Check out my channels play list, I try to group them logically. If there is something specific your looking for let me know and I will see if we can make a video.
good titbit, don't use shrink fit holders for high speed steel endmills 🤣
Shrink fit sucks