Some further clarification about Dynamic vs. Hard Mode VR The challenges that say "Lvl Sync" are uncategorically harder on Dynamic. For those challenges specifically, Normal and Hard are equivalent in Post Game, while on Dynamic enemies both have greater HP and deal more damage.
Very nicely done! Guess it's hard to argue with PAtk Tifa's sheer damage dominance Had a lot of fun trying to get my time down; don't think I'll get to 00:39 with a mage but I think I'll try for under 50 seconds. I appreciate the shoutout, and I'm looking forward to your next videos too; maybe there's some other challenge I'll come up with xD
If I was to hunt for optimizations, I think I might use two True Strikes for the first 2 ATBs during stagger instead of that first aeroga and see what happened. I wouldn't consider it breaking from the mage build to use them in the same way I don't consider it a break from the physical build to use firaga for stagger buildup. Also focused strike refunds an ATB if you dodge something with it, and since it generates a good chunk of stagger I think it's worth considering even though it'll probably just tickle him with your build, so you can enter stagger with 2 ATBs ready to go. I'm not letting my guard down that mage Tifa could pull a trick out of a hat. 39 seems to be the floor for the physical build, I was never able to do it twice.
I think the HP thing is how the game does balance. Dynamic simply auto-scales the enemy to your level and buffs their stats accordingly. Hard is actually a customized difficulty where the AI script is edited, move properties are changed, and stats are likely custom balanced. Because the only "true" rendition of Hard Mode Odin is in Outer Worlds, they tone down his HP since you already contend with Alexander there too, but his attack power is augmented up to increase the challenge that way. I'm sure other bosses have a similar design as well; it seems like Dynamic lv70 Rufus for example actually has more HP than Hard Mode, but he hits way less hard and can't use Punishment/Desperation to cancel combos. It seems they favored amping up enemy power over enemy health, and I think that's the better approach. Meat sponge enemies are no fun to fight and the challenge should be in strategy, not endurance. I don't think Yiazmat or the XI superbosses are good bosses because of this. Hugely inflated HP alone is not a good boss fight.
I'm mostly agree specifically with the yiazmat statement. That fight really is nothing but an endurance test. However I like whenever they bloat enemy Health a little bit. Especially in this game. Combat wasn't the reason I started playing it but it is the reason that I am playing it over 100 hours after beating the game. There's a lot of hidden depth to explore. The highest health enemies in the game can die in under a minute with solo characters. I want super bosses that are able to withstand a well-tuned party onslaught for several minutes. I don't think this game is very challenging because it gives you so many tools to deal with the problems it throws at you. I think any player that puts in the time to plumb those hidden depths will agree. This game is begging for postgame enemies with more health.
@aethertruck I agree wholeheartedly. However, the average player is already claiming this game is too hard on Hard Mode and such, so I doubt enemies will ever be made tougher than these. At the very least, you need good builds and good strategy to defeat all bosses, even if battles are fast and explosive, they can just as easily end your party quickly as you end them, so its an excillerating experience even when it's quick. That said, the fact that Genji Glove GA magic simply erases most enemies is definitely a bit lacking in nuance lol
Did they increase Fire's stagger multiplier to match Blizzard's? In Remake the latter had Focused-level stagger multiplier to make up for its delayed effect and all, and I played Rebirth assuming it still had that edge.
*clip of Rock Lee removing his ankle weights. When they hit the ground below, an unbelievable explosion of force. GAH! How heavy were those weights?! The dust settles. A quick glance inside the craters, the nature of the weights are made clear: they were laden. They bear the weight of Assess and HP Up. Nearby, you find a discarded Fury Ring. An omen of what's to come.
@@zedzilla I haven't started attempts yet since I am working but the idea will be Genji Gloves plus haste plus berserk. Haste might not be meaningful enough but I will play with it. The damage cap is stifling my current build but if I cast a berserk on myself it should allow me to use Genji gloves more effectively
@aethertruck to the best of my knowledge you cannot cast berserk on yourself (with the exception of cloud's punisher/prime mode and cait sith's moogle ability) Let me know if I'm mistaken cause I'll use it too xD
@@zedzilla I don't know one way or the other either. But the healing materia shows what it looks like when you can cast the same spell on the party and enemies during the Gi section so I'm cautiously hopeful and I will test it later
Im not sure but when i went for titan in hard mode it showed me "normal" at the end. I think for some reason there is something weird going with the summon fights and hard difficulty which down scales them to normal or at least shows it like that.
I assume whats going on with the health here is that the fights on hard are scaled to like level 60 or something but dynamic bumps them up to 70, but seeing as you're singling out odin with this I'm gonna assume thats also maybe not the case with other bosses HP? Could be its just a matter of having more defense and lowering the HP to make up for it tho? Also yeah I also wanna know where the hell a second strength up is lol or any of the stat ups at that, they put on all of them saying theres a stack limit but I don't have more than one of any HP/MP/Mag of course
I'm guessing he doesn't have a hard mode. The dual fight with Alexander changes his script but that's not a hard mode thing since that fight is first available in normal mode.
Every manuscript is associated with a specific fight, either in the main quests or side quests. Doing that fight on hard mode will get you the manuscript. You will need to complete all of the side quests on hard mode. Most players complete them all on their first playthrough which means most players need to complete them all twice. The chapter select option will show you which chapters have manuscripts available for you to collect in hard mode. They are not missable so just complete the chapters and you'll get them. The side quest menu will show you which quests you must complete to earn a manuscript. You will end up needing to complete them all though because Can't Stop Won't Stop has a manuscript, and it doesn't unlock unless you complete every other side quest. tldr; Complete the whole game in hard mode, also reset your side quest completion, and complete all the side quests again in hard mode.
I'm almost certain you're correct. I only took 1000 from his attack in my bonus kill. I recall taking about 2000 from that attack in hard mode. But for someone who doesn't spend much time getting hit, the HP Sponge is more fun to play with.
@@zedzilla really?! I thought on hard they do stronger attacks then on dynamic. I haven’t tested myself that, but it’s hard to believe that normal and hard are the same
@engamingchannel922 to be fair i only tested Damage numbers for Titan and the orcs in the character training missions but it seems to be true for all "Lvl Sync" vr missions
Tifa is too OP…don’t get it why people say she’s broken what do they mean?… So all the Clerith mean that Tifa supposedly useless then Areith ?… that’s just messed up !!…. Areith is the one is the slowest n horrible at fighting
![Is this the power of a [divekick]? - Tifa Bossrush Speedrun - FINAL FANTASY 7 REBIRTH](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KDJG-ziMbpo/mqdefault.jpg)
![Is this the power of a [divekick]? - Tifa Bossrush Speedrun - FINAL FANTASY 7 REBIRTH](/img/tr.png)
![Tifa vs Odin [Full Might, Dynamic] in 00:22](/img/n.gif)
I knew I wasn't tripping when I tried killing him on Dynamic at full might. Dynamic is harder than Hard Mode
i remember remake's bahamut also has more HP in normal than hard. And I even saw the dev mention it in one of those ultimanias
That’s cuz remakes hard mode bahamut summoned ifrit. Usually… if you don’t kill it first
Some further clarification about Dynamic vs. Hard Mode VR
The challenges that say "Lvl Sync" are uncategorically harder on Dynamic.
For those challenges specifically, Normal and Hard are equivalent in Post Game, while on Dynamic enemies both have greater HP and deal more damage.
Very nicely done! Guess it's hard to argue with PAtk Tifa's sheer damage dominance
Had a lot of fun trying to get my time down; don't think I'll get to 00:39 with a mage but I think I'll try for under 50 seconds.
I appreciate the shoutout, and I'm looking forward to your next videos too; maybe there's some other challenge I'll come up with xD
If I was to hunt for optimizations, I think I might use two True Strikes for the first 2 ATBs during stagger instead of that first aeroga and see what happened. I wouldn't consider it breaking from the mage build to use them in the same way I don't consider it a break from the physical build to use firaga for stagger buildup. Also focused strike refunds an ATB if you dodge something with it, and since it generates a good chunk of stagger I think it's worth considering even though it'll probably just tickle him with your build, so you can enter stagger with 2 ATBs ready to go. I'm not letting my guard down that mage Tifa could pull a trick out of a hat. 39 seems to be the floor for the physical build, I was never able to do it twice.
I think the HP thing is how the game does balance. Dynamic simply auto-scales the enemy to your level and buffs their stats accordingly. Hard is actually a customized difficulty where the AI script is edited, move properties are changed, and stats are likely custom balanced.
Because the only "true" rendition of Hard Mode Odin is in Outer Worlds, they tone down his HP since you already contend with Alexander there too, but his attack power is augmented up to increase the challenge that way. I'm sure other bosses have a similar design as well; it seems like Dynamic lv70 Rufus for example actually has more HP than Hard Mode, but he hits way less hard and can't use Punishment/Desperation to cancel combos.
It seems they favored amping up enemy power over enemy health, and I think that's the better approach. Meat sponge enemies are no fun to fight and the challenge should be in strategy, not endurance. I don't think Yiazmat or the XI superbosses are good bosses because of this. Hugely inflated HP alone is not a good boss fight.
I'm mostly agree specifically with the yiazmat statement. That fight really is nothing but an endurance test. However I like whenever they bloat enemy Health a little bit. Especially in this game. Combat wasn't the reason I started playing it but it is the reason that I am playing it over 100 hours after beating the game. There's a lot of hidden depth to explore. The highest health enemies in the game can die in under a minute with solo characters. I want super bosses that are able to withstand a well-tuned party onslaught for several minutes. I don't think this game is very challenging because it gives you so many tools to deal with the problems it throws at you. I think any player that puts in the time to plumb those hidden depths will agree. This game is begging for postgame enemies with more health.
@aethertruck I agree wholeheartedly. However, the average player is already claiming this game is too hard on Hard Mode and such, so I doubt enemies will ever be made tougher than these. At the very least, you need good builds and good strategy to defeat all bosses, even if battles are fast and explosive, they can just as easily end your party quickly as you end them, so its an excillerating experience even when it's quick. That said, the fact that Genji Glove GA magic simply erases most enemies is definitely a bit lacking in nuance lol
Tried my hand at this with Cloud, got 0:55 thinking i can cut that time down a lot by using haste and maxing out weapons + folios
Just got 0:46 as we speak
Did they increase Fire's stagger multiplier to match Blizzard's? In Remake the latter had Focused-level stagger multiplier to make up for its delayed effect and all, and I played Rebirth assuming it still had that edge.
This will be something interesting to test. I rarely use Blizz but Fire3, Thunder3 and Aero3 seem to have equal stagger generation
Got it down to 00:39!!
We're gonna need a tie breaker of some sort xD
Uploading later today
*clip of Rock Lee removing his ankle weights. When they hit the ground below, an unbelievable explosion of force. GAH! How heavy were those weights?!
The dust settles. A quick glance inside the craters, the nature of the weights are made clear: they were laden. They bear the weight of Assess and HP Up. Nearby, you find a discarded Fury Ring. An omen of what's to come.
@@aethertruck I'm excited to see how much you can cut it down; I'm not sure I could shave off more than 1 or 2 seconds from my mage build run
@@zedzilla I haven't started attempts yet since I am working but the idea will be Genji Gloves plus haste plus berserk. Haste might not be meaningful enough but I will play with it. The damage cap is stifling my current build but if I cast a berserk on myself it should allow me to use Genji gloves more effectively
@aethertruck to the best of my knowledge you cannot cast berserk on yourself (with the exception of cloud's punisher/prime mode and cait sith's moogle ability)
Let me know if I'm mistaken cause I'll use it too xD
@@zedzilla I don't know one way or the other either. But the healing materia shows what it looks like when you can cast the same spell on the party and enemies during the Gi section so I'm cautiously hopeful and I will test it later
Im not sure but when i went for titan in hard mode it showed me "normal" at the end. I think for some reason there is something weird going with the summon fights and hard difficulty which down scales them to normal or at least shows it like that.
I assume whats going on with the health here is that the fights on hard are scaled to like level 60 or something but dynamic bumps them up to 70, but seeing as you're singling out odin with this I'm gonna assume thats also maybe not the case with other bosses HP? Could be its just a matter of having more defense and lowering the HP to make up for it tho? Also yeah I also wanna know where the hell a second strength up is lol or any of the stat ups at that, they put on all of them saying theres a stack limit but I don't have more than one of any HP/MP/Mag of course
That 2nd Strength Up was actually First Strike. My bad completely on that bub. I edited it in the description.
Did you kill him on the supposed set Hard Mode? You will see he's actually still @ Normal difficulty 😉
Nicely done fight anyway, good job! 😎
I'm guessing he doesn't have a hard mode. The dual fight with Alexander changes his script but that's not a hard mode thing since that fight is first available in normal mode.
Do it again with no materia and inverted controls
How do you get all the manuscripts on hard mode?
Every manuscript is associated with a specific fight, either in the main quests or side quests. Doing that fight on hard mode will get you the manuscript. You will need to complete all of the side quests on hard mode. Most players complete them all on their first playthrough which means most players need to complete them all twice.
The chapter select option will show you which chapters have manuscripts available for you to collect in hard mode. They are not missable so just complete the chapters and you'll get them.
The side quest menu will show you which quests you must complete to earn a manuscript. You will end up needing to complete them all though because Can't Stop Won't Stop has a manuscript, and it doesn't unlock unless you complete every other side quest.
tldr; Complete the whole game in hard mode, also reset your side quest completion, and complete all the side quests again in hard mode.
He has more health sure, but how strong he hits on this difficulty though? Doesn’t Odin have stronger attacks on hard?
I'm almost certain you're correct. I only took 1000 from his attack in my bonus kill. I recall taking about 2000 from that attack in hard mode.
But for someone who doesn't spend much time getting hit, the HP Sponge is more fun to play with.
The dynamic solo summons do more damage
Normal and Hard are the same
@@zedzilla really?! I thought on hard they do stronger attacks then on dynamic. I haven’t tested myself that, but it’s hard to believe that normal and hard are the same
@engamingchannel922 to be fair i only tested Damage numbers for Titan and the orcs in the character training missions but it seems to be true for all "Lvl Sync" vr missions
Tifa is too OP…don’t get it why people say she’s broken what do they mean?…
So all the Clerith mean that Tifa supposedly useless then Areith ?… that’s just messed up !!…. Areith is the one is the slowest n horrible at fighting
Excuse me where do you get two Strength up materia according to your description?
I think it's Aethertruck.
I made a mistake. One of those is actually a First Strike materia. There's only 1 Strength Up.
@@aethertruck ah okay