How Will AI Art Impact the Concept Art Industry? DON'T PANIC - featuring
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ต.ค. 2022
- Can AI replace artists? Will there still be jobs for professionally trained artists in the years ahead? Should you still pursue art as a career path?
I am joined by one of my favorite teachers and artists Adam Duff (who also happens to be one of the most reassuring art voices on TH-cam) to dig into these incredibly difficult questions.
While AI art has and will continue to cause ripples, I don't think it will be the Artpocalypse that many are predicting. Join me and Adam to get our takes on where this is all heading and why artists need to just keep being artists.
_______________________
CONNECT with Hardy Fowler
→ digitalpaintingstudio.com/
→ / hardy_digitalpaintings...
→ www.artstation.com/hfowler
CONNECT with Adam Duff
→ / @adamduffart
→ www.lucidpixul.com
→ / adam_duff_lucidpixul
→ www.adamduff.com
_______________________
UPDATE: The comments have been incredible and really eye opening so I wanted to include some additional resources.
For an incredibly well informed, substantive take on the alarming ethical implications of AI, definitely check out Steven Zapata's excellent Video: The End of Art, An Argument Against Image AIs • The End of Art: An Arg...
Steven also gathered some incredibly useful resources on the topic and how we can organize against it which I will definitely be doing (posted below with his permission). Older artists like me have an obligation to do everything we can to help younger artists have the same opportunities - while I don't know how exactly how that fight will take shape, I will definitely be in it.
Follow The Concept Art Association for further news on organizing against AIs, and check out their recent AI town hall video: / conceptarta. .
Equity is fighting against AIs replacing many kinds of artists, their efforts are relevant to all creatives and they have good resources here: www.equity.org.uk/getting-inv...
A site to investigate just one of the LAION data sets to see if you or your art are in there. A note that this site offers to sign you up for a future opt-out product- I have no idea what the nature of that product will be and would urge caution: haveibeentrained.com/
Open AI explaining how they invented their legal structure because nothing else worked for them: openai.com/blog/openai-lp/
Stable Diffusion release info with no mention of “artists”: stability.ai/blog/stable-diff...
Imagen release info that explains how the data set it is trained on is “uncurated” and contains “a wide range of inappropriate content including pornographic imagery, racist slurs, and harmful social stereotypes.” This is another page you should do a ctrl-f search for “artist” on: imagen.research.google/
Dance Diffusion explanation: wandb.ai/wandb_gen/audio/repo...
Example of private medical imagery being used to train the AI: www.vice.com/en/article/3ad58...
A great article summarizing the data laundering techniques of AI companies: waxy.org/2022/09/ai-data-laun...
California Congresswoman Anna G. Eshoo writes OSTP urging investigation into unsafe AI release models, namely Stable Diffusion: eshoo.house.gov/media/press-r...
The best non-technical explanation I’ve seen on how diffusion models work: www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRHrUyDM/
A good semi-technical explanation of how diffusion models like Stable Diffusion work: www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CIpz...
#conceptart #digitalpainting #aiart #howtodraw #howtopaint #artcareer #adamduff #lucidpixul #hardyfowler #digitalpaintingstudio - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
Yeah this is been a crazy roller coaster and a lot of these opinions are seeming instantly outdated. First of all I would direct everyone to Steven Zapata AND Proko's channel. They are putting out some really well-informed, substantive stuff on this topic. I am feeling more unqualified to try to predict where this is all heading as time goes on, but here is where I have arrived after months of more or less constant pondering: Our industry may change (possibly more or possibly less than many are predicting) but making art is awesome and I’m never going to stop doing it. AI be damned. Let’s keep making cool, beautiful, aggressively human art. I am right there with you all on this, consider me your flight attendant during turbulence. I sincerely want artists to thrive, so if I can help you - I’m around if you need me.
Thank you
We salute your service sir!
This among many other things is why your channel is one of my favourites. I always appreciated your humble/down to earth yet impactful way of talking to students also in a motivational and reassuring way. I am not a professional artist (as in, it's not my soirce of income), but it doesn't mean I don't feel the concerns and the ethical and otherwise concerns just as much. Thank you for this!
Just on a closing note: I feel that a lot of debates leave out something important. Art is just as much about the journey and process (and should be gratifying as such) as the end result itself. We grow through the process of learning. This needs to be a constant reminder in this strange world of instant gratification that we have found outselves in.
Okay, I shut up now.😅
The indifference to this serious issue here was pretty frustrating to watch. The ai system as it stands right now does not respect artists rights and has none of the regulations that protect other industries such as music artists. WE ALL need to reexamine this seriously and speak up about the unethical and non-consensual use of our work in training systems which aim to supplant us and future generations of artists. You guys, people with a voice, should especially be fighting for the rights of upcoming artists with smaller platforms. We can't afford to be indifferent.
Hey Sam. Man I hate that this seemed indifferent, not my intention at all and I share your concern. And I agree completely that this is especially unfair to artists trying to launch careers in the years ahead. I’ve linked Steven Zapata’s video (which I think is the very best resource on the topic - wish I had seen it before making this) in the description along with his resources for artists who want to take a more active role. Thanks for the frank comment.
I think the thing that bothers artist most is that fact that with art we found a way to make a living in a way that lets us be the type of human being we want too be, and still earn money , we can be playful and creative and express our self freely and earn money at the same time and it's the fear that way of live is being taken away from us. It's not about the art it's about a way of life.
Yeah, I take a lot of joy from being able to support myself doing the thing that I love. I think that very thing being threatened is what's causing much of the anxiety around this. Hang in there, I think we're going to be OK.
@@fowlerillus what if ai get so good and none of us will have to work ever again, then we can do art for fun and not deadlines.
@@Cyberpunk644 I never really thought of that! Sounds kind of nice :)
@@Cyberpunk644 realistically the only way that can happen is either this whole current money-base economy is gotten rid of completely or universal income is well-established, first scenario is unrealistic as best and virtually everyone rejecting the second one, calling it "communism" or whatever lame words they can come up with
@@slimetank394 yep, if ai replace us all, then wall-e here we come! w/e, i dont wanna work if i dont have to, art for fun is nice.
For me, AI removes everything I've ever liked about art. I have tried it, and it just leaves me with a deep feeling of unfulfillment, seeing my favorite communities and pages get flooded with our paintings get buried below all of it.
I studied and practiced for years to get into the industry, but I don't want to take part on it if I'm coerced to use AI to not "fall behind" or "get the work done" even if I absolutely despise it. I feel like it's a spit in the face to all of us.
I really wish I was born 10 years earlier to at least get to enjoy a bit of the community I enjoyed, or to at least never become interested in art in the first place. So I think I mourn the fact that the community that I wanted to be a part of is going to be dead soon and nothing will ever be the same.
That's so sad to hear. I agree that all of the joy that I get out of creating art is just not there when I experiment with these tools. We don't know where this is all headed, so I would certainly encourage you to keep creating and not to put the stylus down.
Let's just hope the novelty of this AI dies out soon.
@@techwizpc4484 I kinda doubt it, since it still keeps advancing
Same. Once creatives are forced to use this in their daily job, I will switch my profession and create art on the weekend. I dont wanna type in word and let an ai do the rest. - Also, I will actively boycott all Studios, products, books, movies, comics that use Ai. Even if it means I have to consume only media prduced before 2022.
@@zaungaestin I would be just as aggressive as you are, so you're not the only one in this fight!
I really believe that Ai Art is being pushed publicly to warm the public up to a more aggressive push into other industries. Its going from being the bad guy of Sci Fi movies to being that cool thing that makes sweet images.
Ai is a tool, but not for artists. I think its easy to say as a self employed artist that you are not threatened by Ai Art, but if you are someone hoping to have a job you enjoy, getting paid decently, and be able to fight for decent pay and decent benefits in their career, its a different situation. I am sort of tired of established professionals telling upcoming artists “dont panic! My job is safe :)”
So true, I'm honestly done watching established artists online talk about this kinda stuff. It seems like 99% of them are so blinded by the apparent threat AI art will soon become.. Go check out Steven Zapata's TH-cam channel, he seems to understand how messed up AI art actually Is for artist industry's future.
@@samsonbeaver1643 I was just about to recommend Steven but you did it for me. His 50m essay on the subject is really on point.
Exactly. This isn't just a new medium for expression, it's the AI doing most if not all of the creation itself. I've never seen these people discuss how AI would affect freelance illustrators for example. Only that artistic vision is needed, but that doesn't apply to the artist who is doing the "grunt work". And not every cookbook require a genius art design.
Bingo 💯
couldn't have said it better myself
Yay! (wow you got that out fast!!) - Hardy, I had SO much fun chatting with you again, particularly about this topic. I've received many emails from listeners and students a bit bent out of shape about it.
Again - a big thank you for having me on - It was such a joy (as always)
Adam, you are the best. Thank you so much for jumping in on this. Your perspectives and comments are always fantastic and the calm and reassurance that you put out is exactly what artists need at this weird moment in our history. Thanks for all you do!
@@fowlerillus is there a full version of this?
It's a tool, yes, but the perfect AI will NOT be a tool for artists, it will be a tool for...BUSINESSES. The perfect AI will essentially cut the middleman, namely artists, and allow businesses to just make professional grade images on their own, independent of artists. Once the perfect AI is available (or at least, good enough, like NovelAI currently for Visual Novel Anime stuff) then paying for it makes a lot more sense than paying artists, provided the cost is the same.
With a measly 25 dollars per month, the far from perfect Novel AI (NAI) is *already* capable of generating literal hundreds of professional quality anime artwork, PER DAY. Compare that to commissioning artists.
Adam. Why pay artists who *uses* NAI in their workflow, when you can just buy NAI subscription and come up with *practically workable images,* cuting out the middleman and avoiding needless expenses? The final results wouldn't be much different. The ONLY reason people still opt for artists today, is due to the AI's imperfection, and that you need artists to *iron out the creases* or come up with a specific artwork of specific quality only specific artists can produce.
The ONLY way for AI art generators to be an artist tool is to have it be *actually made with artists in mind!* Don't build it around the idea of replacing artists, which is essentially, what the current model is aiming for.
to be fair youre focusing on the already formulaic and replicable style that is modern anime.
Mature AI will be tools for everyone - for anyone who wants anything.
@@Lizard1582 if I had the money for every artist I mixed with another artist (modern, especially the one dealing with digital art) I'd be incredibly rich. Anime is just a concept with as many complex styles as there are simple ones.
To be fair - everything is replicable. Any style you wish (100 painters for "Your Vincent" can vouch for that.) Would you call other styles formulaic?
tomimn2233 - I can somewhat cheer you up. Translators nowadays use machine translation apps, programs and whatnot. They have to. But this is just an aid. They still need to polish texts, change styles, if needed and check all the grammar and sense of the text. So, machine translation became a tool and translators still have jobs, as we see. I hope the same will go to art, and some prompts created pieces will get the same ridicule as google translated texts. :)
How will corporations have a monopoly on this if I can run the software on my home computer?
you're focusing on how businesses will benefit when this tool democratizes creation for the masses as if that isn't incredible progress for humankind
The more and more I look at ai generated ‘art’, the more depressed and demotivated I get from making art my career.
I totally get that Rudi. I think all we can do is just keep making the art that we enjoy and see where this all leads.
@@fowlerillus Thanks for replying to me Hardy. You’re a guy that I’ve really wanted to learn from as I’ve seen ur classes on Skillshare and I want to start learning soon and you honestly seem like an amazing guy. I think all we can do for now is just keep hope for what’s gonna happen in the future and still create I guess. I mainly want to get into VFX/CGI and 3D art but I’m still terrified on what could happen in the future where ai art could seriously threat many other artists careers.
@@rudimcloughlin3627 3D would probably one of the easier disciple for Ai to do it. It doesn't need to understand perspectives, lighting etc. Just generate the shape but it will take a lot of hardware. Do concept art and learn how to model based from AI image and edit the part that you don't like. Adapt and survive and good luck
When I see a AI image, I dont feel anything, because I know that there isnt a human behind it, its has no soul.
Gwt a new career ni one will pay big money anymore
yeah I'm just glad i stop pursuing art career and keep it personal, a hobby, for a lack of a better word. the thought of having to "compete" with fellow artists are bad enough, now i would have to do so with soulless machines stealing people's arts to make Frankenstein's monsters in 10 seconds.
pure personal, bias opinion, but this AI "art" thing, to me, is an insult to art, to human souls and emotions in general. not only these things stealing arts to create these images, it erase actual human from the process of creating almost completely. that is not art. there is no souls in it, no emotions, there is no human expression in it. Art to me, is the language of the human's soul, the means of communicating feelings and emotions that normal words cannot. Art is something that prove that we are HUMAN. the mere fact that these things exist only to act like it would communicate with our souls, without one itself, is an insult to art, to my soul.
in the word of Hayao Miyazaki, talking about AI "art": "I strongly feel like this is an insult to life itself". it's like human has lost faith in ourselves, in our own humanity.
Agree. I've never doubted my ability to succeed as a new artist as much as I have currently. The fact that people can type a few strings of words, and have the algorithm spit out a master painting that is derived from an infinite plethora of other people's artwork (that did not consent to having their work ripped from them and/or may have no idea that their work is even in the blackbox of AI database feeding) and call themselves an artist is beyond me. It's theft on an unprecedented scale, and yet people remain reticent and fail to acknowledge the severity of what's at stake. I feel like so many people are detached, I don't understand how people just don't...feel things. The lack of empathy, in not understanding how having your entire livelihood and all the things you put blood sweat and tears into for years just - be completely overtaken by things that aren't even human. They value mass production and quantity and capitalism over all else, and the scariest part is some people don't even see an inherent problem with that. It makes sense why, sure. People like things cheap and produced quickly. Oh, they're visually stimulating? Even better. But if you can't see the issue from a moral standpoint then I feel sorry for you.
Do people just not care about other people anymore? If your job is not at risk, if you're all comfortable in your big house with your three car garage and all your multimillion dollar assets- do you just lose everything about yourself that makes you even remotely human? What is the point of humanity if we cannot connect or communicate with others in the most primitive ways we've always done? It scares me how little people tend to care about things so long as it doesn't directly alter their gravity in the center of their own untouchable universe. People can turn a blind eye to almost anything, almost everything is virtual these days - if AI art and the art created by the hard work and dedication of a person are really comparable, then we might as well all be robots. Emotions are just a crutch, then, to opening the doors to more financial gain and recognition. Art is the most personal thing I can really think of and just thinking about how all of these AI created artworks are going to flood every outlet and devalue everything I've ever really given a shit about in this world is... it just makes me feel empty. To hell with this world and the direction it's going. Everything that's been happening in these recent times is so unbelievably depressing that I have to stop and ask myself what my purpose for breathing is or if I really have one in the first place. I just want to watch Miyazaki films and make a living doing what I love doing in a quiet space away from all the cold noise but that's just a silly dream now
I didn't feel I was good or passionate enough to make a career out of art either and went into STEM. Art was always my favorite form of creative expression though, and seeing so many artists go through the greatest threat to their livelihood gives me second-hand despair.
You guys are already successful and established artists, so most likely you will be fine not bothering with this tech. But for the rest of us starving artists down here in the trenches it's kill or be killed 😅
I totally get that. Actually most of my time and business these days comes from teaching and advocating for artists trying to launch careers, so I assure you that my heart and future are very much invested in how this all goes. It's a very unfair moment in history in which rising artists may find themselves.
@@fowlerillus I really don't mind it, to be honest. There is a lot to gain from using AI. It's a humbling experience but Knowing that I can't create better art than AI is also liberating in a way... Suddenly there's no stress about being good at art anymore :)
No, I don't think so if I am being honest. I believe "established" artists will have to deal with it just as new artists or unknown artists will. The question here is not skill or exerience. It's the application. Infact established artists might be even hit harder than new ones which might do some work for a nickel.
The idea behind the current AI development, is to have algorithms with a general purpose. So if the algorithm reaches a point where it's really giving you a good result, why should any company hire expensive artists?
This will be as much of an issue for established artists as it will be for aspiring ones I think. If not even more so because it is far easier to make changes while you're at the begining of your career compared to being inside the industry for 20 years or something.
Yeah totally agree with you, Clients are like can you copy this pose, with this hair and this gun for the final piece, this tool its going to remove us from the equation.
It prolly won't cheer anybody up, but I had a smalltalk with a guy complaining that majority of artists - basing on his personal experience as a client - are hard to work with, therefore he prices AI over human artist. In other words for sure such ppl will be more eager to gravitate towards artifical generators.
I feel like to view AI art as an optional tool feels shortsighted. Corporations who don’t value art so much as producing content will obviously push this as the fast and cheap option for their employees, making deadlines even shorter to the point where an artist that doesn’t use AI in their workflow won’t be able to keep up.
agree
Yeah. In my experience, not every consumer appreciates the artistic nuance and depth of the entertainment they consume.
Pretty much this. What we've experienced over the last few decades is a concentration of power and decision making by corporations. Particularly with the digital age. Facebook, Google, Amazon etc. We're seeing more and more concentration of wealth and decision making in the hands of fewer people. I know this sounds a lot like from some "Cyberpunk" like Universe or something, but it is simply the reality that we're seeing a monopolisation taking place. Who owns the technology? Who makes a large profit from it? The less human participation you have here, the larger will the inquality become.
@@CrniWuk
I would definitely agree with you that this technology will be thoroughly abused by corporations seeking to cut costs in art departments and production of content. however, I would also add that this is less a critique of AI art than it is a critique of the economic and social environment that AI art has emerged within.
People criticizing corporations for cost cutting tend to forget that corporations and CEOs have a gun pointed at their head forcing them to adhere to profit motive and fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders that legally supersedes any duty towards making better products and taking care of their workforce. So regardless of how we might feel about AI art or any other form of automation coming down the pipeline, as long as profit is the primary motivator of our economic lives, we will always see corporations use these automation tools to circumvent our participation in the labor force.
My hope is that the shock to the system that AI art is introducing to the cultural zeitgeist will force more people who thought they were safe from the automation problem to start thinking critically about how we organize ourselves economically as a global society. Many people have been making the point for a long time that we are overworking ourselves in the service of corporate interests and private ownership. The resources do exist to justify scaling back the requirement that the majority of us work 40/50/60+ hour weeks to keep the supply chain running, and that an increase in recreation time could fuel considerable booms in cultural participation (art, music, social events, etc). The longer we continue to kick this can down the road, the more the profit motive will rule our livelihoods and rob us of the precious time we need to engage in endeavors like the creation of digital art.
Isn't that the evolution of everything? You adapt or you die. Rules of the game. I love drawing with pencils, I also love Photoshop. But AI is just another beast.
I am in my 30's now and decited to learn how to draw properly about 1 year ago.
when I've heard about this AI-thing.....it felt like a punch in the face.
what happens here is absolutely horrible. And the cherry on the cake is what happened with Kim jung gi's work, fet to AI and producing artwork that looks like his "as a tribute"
this tears my heart apart guys...I can't even describe. But I knew it gets serious when AI generated art wins an Art competition......
BUT!!! That being said:
I started to educate myself in Art that late because I felt the urge to do so. And...I still do. I love to learn how to draw and to express myself through it. Generating AI art will never give myself that feeling. so...I don't have any choice but continueing 😄
we are on the same train, mate, 11 months atm, same feelings about Kim
I'm almost 30 and started to draw a year ago, just like you.
But why I did that? Because I love art and could make money of this. Give a better life to me and my family and work with what I love? Awesome!
But now I'm thinking if it is worth it, because when I get good enough at art to make money of it in a few years, what this AI will be able to do? It will develop MUCH faster than me, who have time to draw only an hour a day. Who'll hire me instead of using the AI?
It breaks my heart, but I'm seriously thinking about giving up and putting my time on other things. I believe art'll be nothing more than a hobby for people who are not already very good at it.
@@Raphaval gosh, exact same story, i want to believe that we will make it tho
@@Raphaval I fully understand you. But I came to the conclusion, that even if I will never be able to work as an artist or make money out of it....I still have to make art.
And hey...maybe I can't make it into the industry in this life. But maybe I can do some freelance stuff one day?
and even if not...I don't let AI kill my dream (yet)
And I hope you continue too ✌🏻
If Art is something your heart tells you to do, then DO IT!
Its not the job at risk is the problem are the problem because most of artist are doing it for themselves but the blatant misused of artist works of which is illegal and have been highly regulated buy the music industry while visual art is a free for all.
I have posted the amazing resources that Steven Zapata gathered on this topic in the video description (with his enthusiastic permission). The amount of academic research that he put into this is astonishing and shines the brightest light on all of very shady ethics at the core of this. I wish I had seen his stuff before making this video because it's incredibly eye opening and has moved me from wait and see into more of an active mode of seeking out ways to actually try to affect how this takes shape (to whatever limited degree that's possible). While this definitely affects every artist, I agree that this is infinitely more unfair to artists trying to launch a career in 2022. Established artists and those with a platform have an obligation to do everything they can to lift up the next generation so that they have the same shot that we had. Will be following this closely. Thank you all and definitely check out Steven Zapata's stuff if you haven't already.
Maybe you should make a new video and take this one down as it could influence other people into sharing a damaging opinion you no longer hold.
@@erickenneycreative I agree 100%.
A useful tool is one thing. But when it sources from copyrighted work it definitely strikes a nerve. On top of that, these AI "artists" post AI renderings and call it art which to me is a big offense to art and creativity. Art comes from the human journey and AI renderings are completely soulless.
I love the idea that AI can only source from copyright free pictures.
just recently there's that twitter user that screenshot'd an artist's WIP from their stream and use AI to "finish" it sooner than the artist to post it first, then claimed the actual artist was the theft, because they post it first. outright stealing right in front of everyone's nose
Great points. I had similar reactions to AI art posts at first. I have tempered that a bit after remembering teachers saying that Photoshop digital painting was not art, but I agree, it still strikes a nerve.
if a person used a shake-weight for 5 minutes and feels proud of themselves for exercising, i guess let them have it... 😉
All human artists source from copyrighted work in much the same way.
Also, since these AI are freely available to download, there's no way to take out what they've already seen... But if one wanted to build on just free content... AI can generate far more art than humans to learn from also. So, even if you only built upon AI art, you would still end up at vast possibilities soon enough.
@@Leto2ndAtreides Inspiration differs from straight copypasting whats there. When you get inspiration from other artists your hand makes unique marks to only your own. Even if you wanted to copy a work of art you'll never achieve 100% of whats there strictly on that basis. A computer costs more than a pencil and paper. I suggest you start there.
You guys don't care much cause you guys are already established. But for new artist/student, this can be scary, as the amount of jobs will decrease. This is the same as when autocad replaced room of drafters. You don't need as many of them now.
Either you use AI to help you with your art or you fall behind. It's not school anymore where you can't use calculators to work on math problems.
@@yufeng1707 But some of us don't want to. I don't enjoy AI art in the slightest, so I don't see why I should be forced into it to be a professional. I don't need AI's help, as much as I don't need nor want to use a lot of other "tools" so I shouldn't be coerced into using it.
@@yufeng1707 them corporations gonna use AI art to kick you out of their company, you will not be hired, no matter how good you can become. Because while you're starving on the street or in your 3rd underpaid jobs trying to get better they will use mostly AI in order not to pay anyone money but the absolute top tier pros who already had skills and experienced established decades before this thing even exist. Why do they need to pay anyone when they have a machine doing it for free? corporations don't care about anything but money
I hope it doesn't seem that way! Actually my main worry is for the artists I work with and that break in opportunities may become harder to come by. It would be a shame if skilled artists of the future don't have the opportunities that they deserve. I'm going to continue to do everything I can to help connect artists and job opportunities.
@@fowlerillus sorry if i sounded cold, or like an a-hole, but after reading that, your video feels like empty words
im very much against A.I in art for many reasons. one thing that really hurts my ego is seeing how all of the sudden everyone can be a high quailty artist without any real training, and the fact that alot of these fakers are trying to pass it as their own work failing to mention the A.I ! i see deviantart profiles popping up everywhere for example, only a couple months old with 1000s of these images and alot of these profiles are actually selling these renders on redbubble for example. alot of people not in the know about this new tech are thinking these people have real skill! and all the artists who have worked hard everyday for years are being slowly buried under an avalanche of these A.I images and going unrecognised. its just not fair :/ still waiting for this to blow over...... please please blow over lol
Great talk. However, as both an aspiring artist and a (former) lawyer I feel this topic has been approached a bit too lightly here. As someone in the comments suggested, it is objectively easier for already established figures to approach AI as a tool (which, in some way it is, and in other ways it isn't). For people who are trying to break through it's a bit closer to heart. Personally, I'm in game dev and AI "art" has already taken over a lot of work humans used to do, like marketing posters and even concept art, and we mustn't forget that this thing is only getting started. There is a great video Steven Zapata made on this topic and suggest everyone to listen to his arguments, I do find them pretty well researched and compelling.
I'll definitely check that out and I agree that the biggest concern is that break-in opportunities for artists beginning careers are what is being most directly threatened here. Yours is the first direct instance I've heard of actual jobs and roles being replaced so that is certainly concerning.
There are definitely legal and ethical boundaries that can’t be crossed and I feel Hardy really tapped into those boundaries well today - more to be said moving forward for sure
@@AdamDuffArt thank you both for addressing the topic, it needs to be talked about from prominent figures especially.
@@fowlerillus The craze is especially getting larger for indie developers who are always tight on a budget and are looking to (understandably) get a cheaper route wherever they can. We'll see where it goes, but it's a nuanced topic for sure.
If artists are chefs and cooks, then AI generators are fast food, instant ramen and frozen dinners.
This is incredible. I have learned more about this topic in the comments here than I have in weeks of conversations with colleagues and everyone I could seek out with knowledge on the subject. Hugely divergent opinions as expected but lots of substance and support too which is great. I think that our collective engagement on this (rather than turning away from something scary) is likely going to be key for how this all ends up, so I'm encouraged to see the passion on display here. Thanks everyone.
lots of empty words for a dude who's already in a good enough place to not be affected by this whole bullcraps situation
@@slimetank394 He's going to be affected by it too; he's literally teaching art.
@@slimetank394 What do you want, for him to come save the day? Tell open source AI devs "you stop it!". What is Hardy supposed to do here? He's talking about the issue, openly learning about it and creating discussion with the community.
Yeah there's the bigger implication here, highlighted if I remember highlighted by Karla Ortiz... and that is the issue of Copyright. If I typed "Hardy Fowler" or "Adam Duff" would you be happy if untalented (or 'untrained') people claiming to be artists used your names as a build criteria?? Or maybe "Craig Mullins" would be happy with that? A tool like photoshop cannot create the "art" from scratch, it requires and artists hand... Ai is creating the final result based on what you type in... not what you create.
you nailed it! this is exactly the context that's been left out of most conversations. Other tools remain the human existence within the process of creation, AI got rid of it almost completely. that is not how a "tool" works, tools don't do things for you completely, they just help you a bit, you're still the one doing it. the only way i can see AI being a tool is that it is used solely to create better reference, but most AI users currently don't do that, they let it makes the final products and call it a day.
@@slimetank394 are you gonna use ai or get left behind?
@@Cyberpunk644 i don't give a sht. this whole art "industry" in and of itself is already an insult to art. I'm not a part of it, never will. AI is another insult to art that i don't touch, never will. no one leave me behind, I'm not staying anywhere, that is not what art is about. this is not art. a society that treat art as a mere money making products is a society i am not a part of.
Great video! The discussion about how "weird" the AI art pieces can feel immediately reminded me of the uncanny valley effect. That's the term for uneasiness we feel when seeing something not quite human. Maybe we're picking up on that lack of human energy behind the project? I think there may be some overlap there. Anyway, it got my brain going. Thanks again!
I love that - the uncanny valley would be a great topic for another video. When that was explained to me, it really helped get unstuck on projects that I was attempted to detail to death in search of "perfection". That totally applies here too - great call!
@@fowlerillus Yes the uncanny valley effect. I'm having a deja vu moment with this IA art
This is naive at best and disingenuous at worse. Steven Zapata really gets to the heart of the matter. These are essentially art theft data mining algorithms. The ultimate goal is of course not for these things to be used as tools but for useful idiots to train the AI to the point where they don’t need humans at all. Every time you type a prompt into a one of these AI image generators you are training your replacement. You are expanding its vocabulary.
yeah. in terms of career, we're essential paying our pocket money in training our own replacement
@@slimetank394 I’m considering moving away from Adobe now that they have gotten into the AI art game and moving exclusively to Oil, Gouache, and Acrylic. I teach quite a bit and I do teach both digital and traditional. I would definitely be losing teaching income by refusing to teach Adobe Photoshop or Illustrator, InDesign but I feel super strongly that this technology while not on its face being evil, is being used by evil people to maximize profit at the expense of an entire labor force of artists, creative people etc. some would say “ well those people aren’t evil they are just doing what you do under capitalism” to which I would say “ maybe we need to rethink the paradigm under which we as artists are producing these images then” it’s a shame you have these guys on here on these channel with tens of thousands of impressionable kids subscribed or tuning in being told to train
These algorithms essentially. Of course you have more egregious examples like some art tubers directly shilling for MidJourney and a lot of cockamamie art channel popping up offering this or that tutorial on … what exactly, typing stuff into a computer. It’s shameful really.
AI subscription is cheap. if something is that generous then you are the product
I am not a professional artist but i really related to rethink about what art means for us.
So I was doodling a face in my freetime and when i finished, it didn't look great but god it looked exactly like my brother! Like i wasn't thinking of drawing him but somehow my unconscious mind remembers his face proportions cuz we lived in the same house for 20 years. And now I understand your point you made in the end.
Art is not just about making a beautiful image. It is an expression of our history, dreams, memories, beliefs. AI can't replicate that!
(But i do empthies deeply with the industry as it will make things harder for young artists to start out, i really don't see a way out other than either a new economic system or enforcement of some laws to protect artists from ai stealing their style)
for me, art is a performance. it is the process. and I despise AI process.
i finished 2 art degrees around a year ago and was taking a break cuz some reasons, but now that i'm back and i see this ai convesation is everywhere... it's kind of shocking. at first i even used a bit of ai some months ago cuz i thought it was something like those funny face filters you use once for laughs and jokes, but seems like people want it to replace art as a whole which is insane to me. dunno what to do regarding my art career but yeah, kind of lost right now
Lots of artists sharing that anxiety right now and I genuinely empathize. Crazy to see where this is all heading! Good luck and keep creating - I'm feeling significantly more optimistic lately.
AI art is mainly being marketed as a tool but not for artists, for our clients so they can suppress the middle man, aka us artists.
I am sorry if I come out as cold or rude, and for the extreme "doom and gloom" opinion, I have always been the pessimistic type. But I am 100% with Steven Zapata on this one, and I'd rather prepare myself for the worst, just in case.
I appreciated your talk and take on this, and thank you for making this video (I'm also glad I found this channel: I'm subscribing!) but I disagree with a a lot of what is said. As others have stated, I have the feeling that as two established artists who had a career you are oblivious to the threat this is already posing to brand new artists like me, because you are not as threatened by it yet.
So yeah, I'm panicking big time. Me and others are simply screwed right now. I really really hope I'm wrong! But we'll see about that in a few years.
In an utopian world, AI art would be an amazing tool, maybe one of the greatest ones for us artists: some sort of magic wand that would unlock our true potential and creativity.
But in the current market it's a direct competitor, even more: a replacement that is faster, cheaper, that will never be sick or ask for a day off, contrary to those "whiny and greedy artists". This is not like photoshop, or blender.
For the time being it's still making some mistakes, but give it 6 months, one year at most, and I bet 99% of AI art will be undiscernible from human art.
AI is already replacing some jobs: book covers for indie authors, magazine covers, illustrations for some indie games and table top game/books illustrations. Those are usually jobs for low tier artists trying to make ends meet.
According to a poll by RJ Palmer, more than 70% of artists make under 20k a year: twitter.com/arvalis/status/1582882755339161600?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet : it was already tough, now the bar has been raised even higher. Just wait until big industry names like Hasbro start using AI art for anything under the WotC banner, and then most companies will embrace it.
Sure, I as an artist could embrace AI and toy with it: I almost did at some point. But the way it is handled, the moral implications of it, make it that I refuse to touch it for ethical reasons. To me, at the moment, it feels as making money out of human trafficking: I need to be able to look at myself in the mirror.
I also personally don't buy at all the idea that AI art will make human art even more relevant, demanded or luxurious. I simply don't have enough faith on my fellow human beings: we live in a world of high consumerism, where being drowned in images, music, etc, is the norm. Give people an AI app where they can scroll an endless feed of AI pretty images, or music, or books, etc and they will be happy. Maybe some will look for human art, but the majority of people will be glad we are gone (how many people consume art while at the same time despising artists?...).
What does that mean for beginners like me? I was stuck at a job I didn't like, invested several years and thousands of dollars to learn, starting from the bottom. I haven't reached pro level yet, I am struggling a lot with impostor syndrome, I haven't made a single penny with my art, I'm living off my economies that I accumulated with the job I left, and I was getting ready to start freelancing.
I now know it's unlikely I will be making any return on investment and that I chose the wrong career path. Or at least, that choosing visual arts as a career path was a mistake.
Here I am, at 38, in a country where finding a job pass 30 is very difficult, with no marketable skills, already planning to learn something new to switch careers.
Again.
That DOESN'T mean I'm giving up. I'm just being realistic and preparing for the worst.
I will keep producing art for myself, for the passion out of it and to fulfill a need, but mainly as a hobby. I will still give this career a try though, and try to make this work. I have to, I can't give up without trying, not after everything I have invested.
I will see how much I can scrap by. Hopefully enough so I can bounce back again by investing that money to go back to school part time. And that on its own will be a win based on the current state of things.
Enough doom and gloom for today, I have to go back to work.
where do you live in?
what art style did you learn?
@@allanatiers9261 I didn't really learn a specific art style, but I mainly draw fantasy art.
@@xuanxh can you colorize background images? i am searching for someone. do you have a portfolio somewhere on artstation or deviantart?
@@allanatiers9261 It seems I no longer can post replies, so this will be my last attempt. Depending on the type of background images that is something I should be able to do. I can't post a direct link, but you can look me up as Xuan-Xabier Huynh and you'll find right away my portfolio on artstation.
As an artist currently in law school, it’s crazy to see my two worlds collide. I have so much empathy for my fellow artists who find themselves in this predicament, but as a law student I am also greatly interested in how this impacts will impact copyright law.
Wow, you have a really unique perspective on how these two worlds will collide.
Wooowww thank you SO much for sharing these words Hardy and Adam. I truly needed to hear all of this, especially those words at the end Hardy. I must admit that I've been feeling very discouraged from the whole ai art movement. But this video truly helped respark the fire within me to continue developing my art skills and passions. Bless your hearts to both of you and all of us living human artists!! May we continue to bless the world with our gift.
I'm so glad to hear it Adrian. Crazy times we are living in but I sincerely believe that we'll be OK. There are some encouraging signs on the horizon too.
I tried AI art just to see how the process works. The images that I got back from my algorithm were nice, but very weird in the since it was a collection of empty thoughts totally lacking creativity. I'm just learning art and trying to get my own creative style. I can see companies using AI art because my background is in IT as a developer, and administration. One thing that I noticed is that most of the time IT is managed by non-IT people who don't understand the process of creating. They just appreciate the end result and don't care how you get there. That's where I see AI going because you are always going to have those people who just want something quick and won't understand the creative process that went into making the art.
My understanding/take on AI is: paint me a woman wearing a red cape on a white horse in the style of Monet. no make it a black horse and woman wearing green cape in the style of Hardy Fowler. There will be some "AI artist" who make it "big" and there will be a flood of people who think they can create "art with AI" and fail but it will taint all artist even tradition artist. a lot of people think they would be the "next big thing on TH-cam" and then when they only have a few thousands of followers they get down and then get angry at why not. same it will be with AI artist who didn't get the praise and $$$ they expected.
Now it is happening, as it happened with NFTs.
There's videos teaching you how to earn thousands of dollars using stable diffusion or another AI's and many people disappointing about that. Because the market they open a month ago, got quickly destroyed due the supply excess.
I don’t think AI can be seen as a tool, especially as it becomes more sophisticated in the future. Digital Art was not a “tool” when it was first introduced it was a new “medium”. It was a whole new arena for creating art. AI goes even beyond that - it’s a collaborator that is very human-like but also non-human at the same time. It’s terrifying to think about but a tablet couldn’t have replaced artists but AI can. It’s not a tool or a even a new medium of art - it is a soulless imitator of our art that has real benefits to greedy corporations
The only people this hurts is greedy artists who are trying to charge for their hobby.
Thanks for video, Hardy, Adam, always nice to see you both. perfect timing for a topic, thank you for your words at the end of the video, it gave me confidence to move forward. much luv
I think the weird vibe is because sometimes the image is too perfect. What makes art we make genuine are the imperfections. It could also be that if you know it was made by ai, there's the uncanny valley effect. You can't trust it.
The images are far from "perfect", even in the best examples I've seen. In most generated images there are so many subtle errors that artists can see rather easily, but an average observer will only interpret as "slightly uncanny" yet good enough, but were he to inspect the image for more than a few seconds he would notice something is quite wrong with the image. Generated images can only look so good without a genuine, logical understanding of the fundamental concepts which make good art, and I think we are so far away from an AI that can actually think in such concepts that perhaps AGI will come before it.
@@jake66664 I'm still learning art and painting so I guess I'm not yet good enough to spot those errors. But that only means if it's good enough for a non-artist, then that's probably all that it takes. Maybe if I actually tried looking for those errors I will see them.
Without sounding too nihilistic, I'm always worried that if AI art is so proficient that it can trick you into thinking it was made by a person, one day it will be able to trick you into thinking it wasn't made by AI.
😅 there will be a point where traditional art supplies just won't exist, or only exist as cheap rubbish for kids until they upgrade to computers. good supplies for traditional artists are already crazy pricey (Especially in Australia where I am) though it might make our skills more valuable and rare..... 🤔 hmmmm don't think it will make it any easier though.
it's something I'm not 100% got feelings down pat on, though it is annoying to see really cool pics on instagram and finding out it's AI generated and how popular it is compared to actual creatives like dress makers, digital sculpture, comic and illustration creators....😐 traditional artists already struggle against digital creators by being out priced and with speed of production.... now against instant AI art.... yeah ok not quite happy about that.... and sadly there's many non artists who wouldn't have a clue what true quality and effort in creation is that will easily put more nails in the 'real artists' coffins, especially on people who are starting out.
Other way around. People will start always asking “Did you make this by hand…or by AI?”
If not made by hand…they will shun it. At least where wall art is concerned.
AI is a tool for businesses. The concept of replacing art, games, movies, music, and writing with algorithmic nonsense depresses me as an artist and as a consumer. Here's the reality of it: It's a novelty. It's fascinating and it's impressive tech. It requires no skill to use, and anyone who places value on "knowing just what to say to the AI to get the right picture" needs to consider two concepts: 1. This tech is only going to get better and easier to use. 2. There will inevitably be AIs that will generate super prompts that will be much much better than whatever your human ingenuity could produce. Nobody is going to pay you to prompt. I think there will always be a demographic that also sees this AI mass-production as mindless fluff and seeks out the human connection through manual art. Video game studios are going to be a thing of the past in the near future as everyone is just going to generate what they want. My advice to you is to just do what you love and be happy in it. The pieces are all up in the air right now with the arrival of multiple kinds of AI. It's going to affect every aspect of civilization in ways we can only speculate on. Be happy. Keep painting if that's what you love. I feel the pain.
don't feel pain the fight hasn't started yet lawsuits are being made by artists we need to support that with everything we got .
For me, I'm going to attempt to learn how to use these AI art tools in order to generate images to use as art references. The AI can help me generate alternate versions of the concept I have in mind based on the prompts which I input, giving me new ideas to work with and incorporate in my final version. It could essentially be like having a second person working on my design with me, giving me new ideas which I wouldn't have come up with on my own.
I've been doing it by hand for over 50 years and got to the point of being able to draw and paint well. At this point I'm looking for, and have been looking for, ways to extend and expand my ability to create art in a similar vein as my own to "fill in" pages for a comic and other more immersive media. There's never been a tool that can do this level of mimicking my style and other similar artists. It does feel a little wierd and yet if I keep my own style intact with the stories I've created I can move forward cautiously but forward I go....
Great to hear this perspective. "Forward I go..." That's going to stay ringing in my ears.
Two of my faves right there. 🎨
I do believe the profit incentive is too strong for major production companies to resist AI (which is a misnomer, but that’s another topic). There will be a “first fully AI produced movie” sold as a gimmick initially until it becomes more normalized down the line.
Because of this I think artists will steer more towards independent work where they build their own communities and audiences rather than seek opportunities through production companies. Things like NFTs have introduced the concept of scarcity to digital work which will likely play a role.
This is all assuming AI art goes legally unchecked. The copyright issue presents a hurdle that I think companies are hesitant to mess with for the time being.
Very interesting (and clearly well informed) perspectives. The legal angle will be something to watch closely.
I actually think that independent work will be the one who suffers the most. A lot of commission artists depend on regular people who directly pay them to make art. Now a commissioner can save lots of money and time and just type what they want!
@@fowlerillus it will be dictated by market, if USA is regulated but China is not. Company will just outsource...
@@ksenijas1783 you’re right! I’m speaking less about commissions and more about artists creating their own projects and selling their own work. People will still crave man-made art but it will come directly from the artists, not the companies that hire artists. I can say a lot about what I think that may look like but we’d be here a while lol
@@GeminEyeArt "People will still crave man-made art"
Will they though ? That's something I'm truly wondering. As artists ourselves we can be tempted to believe that, because we often value the artist as much as the art, and we're often surrounded by other artists who think likewise, but what about the average person ? Will the kids really care who or what made the comic book they're reading after school ? Will the parents care about how the movies they're watching are made ? Will the average Joe or Jane actually give a damn who or what wrote the book they read last week, or painted the painting hung in their bathroom, or made the video game they lastly played ?
I'm sure some people will, but won't it be just a very small minority, thus only allowing a very select few independant artist live from their craft ?
Hardy, your perspective at the end is especially helpful for myself as an intermediate artist who is still just trying to get really good. It’s a little frustrating to seemingly be lapped by “prompters” who just put up their accounts 10 days ago. As always, thanks for the encouragement.
I'm so glad to hear it. FWIW I think you and the prompters are doing entirely different work so I wouldn't compare their work to yours. You are developing a skill, meaningfully expressing your creativity and connecting with other people by giving your craft.
A lot of the people who aren't too concerned about the introduction of AI are artists who are already established had careers etc. Think of this as a young person just starting out knowing that the 10 years it takes to become proficient at art will be beyond pointless. This is the greatest crime against artist ever, I feel so sorry for the younger people.
I totally hear that. Adam has some great recent videos addressing exactly that. I definitely didn't mean to seem dismissive or somehow above the risks of AI (my livelihood is very much threatened by this) and I agree that this is especially unfair to artists launching careers in 2023 compared to just last year.
Really like these collaborations.
Something I question about AI art, is that it seems a lot like we are trying to outsource humanity. If in 30 years, only machines make music, films and art, what is the point of it? Is the end result really all that matters?
Thanks! I definitely see your point and that's just one of the dozens of mind boggling, tangled questions that arise from this new tech. I think it's going to be a strange few years for artists but that a new normal will settle in where artists are still very much valued and in demand.
The end result is all that matters for the client, this is why artists aspiring to make a living out of it will get screwed in no time. Customers generally don't know or care how a product is done, if ot was organic or artificial, ethical or not, as long as it satistfy their needs, they look the other way. The moment the client realize the AI can generate profitable product (commercial art) in much less time and cost than a living person, it's over.
@@edkabessa Maybe. We are still a ways away from that though. What I meant is, if we are all walking around through the world and realize that no human made the things we enjoy, will the average person notice or care?
I choose to think it's going to be a nice tool in the artists toolbox for quite some time- for example rapidly testing different lighting or textures, that kind of thing. But I guess time will tell
@@moonchild2190 corporatism seems like it's destroying the western economy. Take for example the recent case of ID software screwing the guy who made the Doom soundtrack- just so they didn't have to pay him a fair wage. In the end they got a crappy OST, effectively stole from the guy, and got massively bad publicity- just to push a few more bucks into the shareholders portfolios? The disconnect between the people making any product and the board of directors etc is really unbelievable.
Great video! Obviously there are some concerns with AI art but from what I've seen, there will always be a demand for "handmade" art for lack of a better term, and even if not there will always be the human desire to create
everytime people choose which one looks better in their many options given when giving samples they get to train through our sense of beauty, soon idk if we'll still see those so called "weirdness"
Hardy, I feel you man and Thanks Adam for the inspiring words! Art is the fun hype they are proving these models on to get investors because it makes big waves. The truth of this tech in its current state is it can be trained to do anything with a dataset. anything that can be turned into values afaik. If it gets good enough to make artists obsolete it will very quickly (and simultaneously) come after every other profession that is data driven. This is is going to affect economies around the world and wont be an artist-only problem for very long. All society will have to bear the burdens as well as reap the benefits of it, whatever they may be. That said, as an artist myself, I hate it and I will slowly grudgingly get acquainted with the aspects of it that simplify the duller parts of my art job, like making tiling textures or optimizing renders, but every artists will have to navigate in their own way. Don't panic but also be ready and prepared, because it is competitive.
A very substantial discussion. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
All day… wasting my work day, I’ve been viewing what others think of this AI Art total disruptor - desperately searching what artists think of this… thing. And, I’ve found it.
Thank you greatly for your insights and perspective to keep moving forward - I’m telling you, you thoughts on this was the best way to view it.
This topic is such a rabbit hole! Glad this was helpful.
@@fowlerillus - A rabbit hole beyond belief with these extreme, in the truest and highest sense, Left-Wing “AI” developers. Total insanity is an understatement: th-cam.com/video/K_Bqq09Kaxk/w-d-xo.html
Apart from the skill and talent which is needless to say that both of you guys excell at; both of you have an incredibly soothing and calming energy. I believe that is a big factor of why I enjoy your videos so much. As you said in the video, I think that watching a workflow full of professional craftmanship mixed with a very human and calmed energy narration, is what makes the final piece feel so close and satisfying. And I don't think AI will be able to replicate that.
Wow, thank you. Super nice to hear! :)
Hey great video! So as an artist and doctoral student, I’ve actually done a fair share of research that determines AI to not even be in the realm of art. Would you be up for a chat about that some time?
Thanks for video.
Thank you. Glad you liked it
Thanks for this.
My pleasure. I'm so glad it was helpful.
Hi Hardy! I'm curious what you think an entry level job in concept art might look like in the future where some of the more menial tasks are potentially automated. Do you think what is currently considered a mid-level concept art position will be the new entry level? What might a junior's portfolio look like in that scenario?
That's a great question and I wish I knew the answer. Entry level jobs that artists depend on to launch careers are likely at the greatest risk here so that's exactly the weather vane that I'm keeping my eyes on. If we notice a precipitous drop in new job posts on Artstation or Polycount, that will definitely be an ominous sign. New strategies will surely develop though and I'm hopeful that the legal landscape forces companies to use this tech ethically (and recent headlines make me think that it is becoming publicly accepted that this stuff is ethically compromised) so that it can be more of a tool rather than a replacement as the optimists are touting. As Adam said, artists can be very creative and clever when they are forced to be and this may be our moment. It's incredibly hard to make any kind of concrete prediction though, as so much is up in the air at the moment.
Hey, this is kind of a random question, but are nude figure drawings something to have in a concept art portfolio as a demonstration of skill/anatomy knowledge?
Great question. My general advice would be to only include work in your portfolio that reflects the kind of jobs you are going after. So unless you are aiming to be a figure or portrait artist, I would leave them out. I have also heard from a few art directors that anything that looks like an art school practice piece (like still life bowls of fruit or, to a lesser extent, nude figure drawings) can be a bit of a negative. I guess it can creative the impression of inexperience. I love figure drawings and find them beautiful and impressive fwiw
@@fowlerillus Thank you very much! I'm going for character design/2D generalist type jobs and I noticed many of the job listings mentioned having a professional understanding of anatomy - I guess those must be better shown in the character design sketches/renders
I kinda view it as a tool like Adam, for all we know, AI could evolve in a way that allows you as the artist to have more flexibility with your creative process that allows you to keep certain aspects you love about creating and get rid of aspects you dislike. Also another thing that isn't frequently brought up in A.I conversations are the law and how A.I is coming for every industry. There are bound to be unforseen ethical issues that can arise from A.I development and implementation. This will impact how we engage with A.I not only in art but in everything. I think it's best to stay open, optimistic and aware. Also remember, no one knows the future for sure so don't automatically assume the worst case scenario will. Be happy and enjoy creating 🙌🏾
I'm already seeing it used by art directors as a quick an easy way to get a mood board together. What is being generated is miles from being a fully formulated idea, but it gives a great jump off point. I agree with your sentiments entirely - open, optimistic and aware and, you're right - this is supposed to be fun and meaningful for the creator.
I have used it as a wonderful tool to break through "artists block," and to find inspiration.
That's awesome to hear. I totally overlooked and skipped all of the positives that this tech is bringing to art. It is a great way to get inspired, to quickly create really on point mood boards and to help give shape to a vague idea.
@@fowlerillus Indeed, I don't draw and paint because there aren't people out there that can't do it better than me, I do it because I enjoy it. There are always better artists out there, so what if it's a computer also.
@@funlightfactory6031 I needed to hear that. Awesome point!
I view it as a google images search that can approximate results that don’t exist yet. Not quite accurate, but I tend to treat the results in a similar manner when integrating into my pipeline.
Trying to put limits on the creation of AI art based on some other artists style will be very difficult. We all have taken inspirations from many artists during our career. We've copied, emulated, mix and match and ended up; hopefully, with our own style that carries all those influences. So what's the difference there?. That the AI can approach much better to that specific style?. Where is copy and where is inspiration?. That battle will never be won.
Photoshop can make work faster and easier, but it doesn't do anything on its own. An algorithm does 99% of the work here. It doesn't make sense for large companies to keep a whole staff of artists when you can keep a few people who, thanks to the algorithm, will work faster than the previous staff. The rhetorical question is: how will this affect the market? Big companies will make super profits, most mid and low-level artists will be fired, that's my impression as a low-tier artist
The algorithm already allows you to do work that most artists, even high-level ones, are not always capable of doing. The company would just need someone who would be responsible for "quality control" and making minor edits like fixing artifacts.
The way I see it, now you can finally do your own passion project that you've been pushing aside for the lack of skill, time, or funds 😉
@@iyadart well, yes, there's a positive side to all of this, too. There will be a lot of new creative projects.
@@lucid8302 with no HUMAN in the creative field justo unfillimg chesp mashines...what a grest future wey are going trhough
AI looks cool, but after looking at enough works, I agree that they have a weird vibe to them. Like even though you can adjust the style and the artist and so on, there’s still a running visual vein of…I think it’s hypercomplexity. A lot of stuff is fractalized. The shapes always have tinier shapes. The colors are rarely flat. But there’s no meaning in any of it. Why is a girl’s dress blue? AI couldn’t tell you. It’s spitting out images but it has no intention. It has the elements of emotion, but the lack of meaning of the elements and the fact that they don’t interact with each other probably cause that uncanny empty feeling.
That, coupled with the fact that AI can’t tell stories through images, gives me hope. If we think about it, while AI can easily spit out one or two images and that look cool, think of how precise the text needs to be in order to get what you want where you want it. Details don’t matter sometimes, but for MEANING, details are everything especially for more than one work. At that point, AI would have to be able to do one of the following to keep up:
-read our minds
-comprehend enough visual meaning to suggest other meaningful concepts that progress an idea while staying consistent with the rest of the body of work (could take decades or long enough for us to find another solution)
-people will have to write so much so precisely and choose the correct images to develop that creating an AI image for say, a book or concept art, will be like another job…there’s simply no way to replace artist jobs without having visual and narrative consistency across images and a precision that can meet any given assignment unless someone just needs isolated pieces all the time
Tldr: AI is like that kid who can render hands really well but has no idea how to design an image that uses those hands to convey grief, or more importantly WHY they’re grieving.
Use ai to feed another ai, you get rid of the weirdness. Examples use mid journey than stable diffusion it, and you get almost perfect results.
I think what you might be describing is the perlin's noise artifacts that the AI uses to generate images when you say fractalized.
I don't think there's even a room for discussion here , when it comes to traditional or digital art , just like he said , you were the one who's composing the picture, choosing colours and drawing with your own hand , the mediums we use might be different like oil paint or water colours , pencils or pastels or digital art but you were the artist and you created that piece with your skill you worked years to build up but when it comes you AI art you just need to type in some keywords and the computer does everything for you , there is no artist behind it and there is no artistic value to it
Great video !
Glad you enjoyed it!
@@fowlerillus I was hoping to hear your take on the subject and as usual it's full of nuances which is great!
If anything strikes me about human artists, it's that they're frighteningly evolving😱
The next generation of human artists will be so intimidating that even artificial intelligence will not be able to compete
Just look at what the artists did when the cameras showed up
The problem with artists is that their hands are so slow when brain chip technology comes in
Artists will come again!😎!, and do not think that this is easy. Artists know how to draw and understand the basics of drawing
As for people who have not painted in their lives, they will not be able to compete
Artists keep drawing and don't give up
I think a lot of my fear is not from AI art at its current state. As you discussed in the video, there are some weirdness and absent of humanity in it. But what about the future? That being said, I think there will be new job opportunity for AI art too! Prompt engineer, post generation editor, not something I am personally excited for as an artist but I think it’s new opportunity.
Those jobs you mentioned? That 's being a writer
Prompt engineers are also easily replaceable since writing AIs came out a few years before this, I agree with what Steven Zapata said where in the future we probably will just have our “personal entertainment” on demand since every part of the process could be automated…
Awesome video! Thanks for sharing your perspective on AI.
Veteran (and old too) here. For those who are afraid of AI. Just run a simple test. Try to make AI generates a hand in the exact position you want or any body position with good anatomy. Sometimes, I spend more time fixing its mistakes than speeding up my process. Only non-artists or newcomers think AI is capable of everything (and only they think "art" is only the painting/drawing skills. The best AI-generated images I've seen came from artists/designers/photographers, etc). As I'm always saying, it's just a pretty painting over dull compositions and lifeless characters with weird gazes. I'm using Stable Diffusion (and img2img) and it helps to speed up some things, but if you're an artist working in the industry, don't expect a miracle from AI. (I recommend it for backgrounds, environments, and game level concepts. Usually, AI screws up less with the environment).
And, honestly, at least AI freed us from that uncomfortable question "Can you draw me"? Ugh XD if you're an artist, you've probably heard it at least once in your life.
That's something I have noticed too. My typical outing with AI ends up with results that are interesting and often beautiful but it seems like I can never get it close to what I want it to be. That has been comforting, but surely the tools will improve. For now, I think it can be a good jump off point for art directors and even artists themselves to roll into an idea (much like photo bashing but significantly more targeted).
@@fowlerillus "much like photo bashing but significantly more targeted" You've described it perfectly here!
just give the AI another 5 or 10 years
@@edkabessa When AI for 2D came out, I was using AI for 3D (game development). I was excited to get rid of boring stuff in creative 2D like... drawing (yeah, I make a living as an artist but I don't like to draw XD) But no... it didn't help as much as I was expecting. So, if AI for 2D does everything in 5 or 10 years, I'll be glad. Being an artist is much more than drawing skills. Other technical parts are way harder (believe me, creating a comic book layout page/thumbnail is way harder than drawing it later. Composition, pacing, and other stuff to solve are the hardest parts. When AI reaches this point of complexity, all the jobs on Earth will be done by AI).
@@Amelia_PC yeah i wonder what's gonna happen to most people when all jobs are taken by automation, when people are not even being taken care of by the system even now, before automation. Even people with jobs can become/are homeless and starving. People are dying from financial struggles even while working for big companies. I highly doubt the current social system would care about people dying in the future because of automation taking away their means of survival, since it doesn't care about people dying right now
To be quite honest, AI Art reinvigorated my desire to draw for the past month, giving my references I never would have gotten otherwise if I were to scroll on Pinterest for the millionth time.
I do feel for upcoming artists who feel threatened and want to do this for a career however, but I don't really know what *can* be done about it. Artists don't have record labels like the music industry does to protect their self-interests after all.
Always great to hear someone getting some positives out of all of this. Thanks for the comment.
This was great to watch; especially, the 10:01 mark of the video. This is the problem with A.I. art sourcing human styles. That is YOUR style. The mistakes, predilection, interpretation, and mastery is all YOU. Your art is you.
Glad you enjoyed it. Yes, I agree completely and think that goes to the core of what this all so upsetting. Our very identity feels under attack.
@Hardy Fowler - Digital Painting Studio I will be making a video, soon concerning A.I. There have been terrible explanations accusing artists of gatekeeping, being sore losers, and comparing A.I. art to Prometheus. The topic of A.I. is disgusting.
@@idee8or I look forward to seeing the video! I have heard those points of view too and I look forward to hearing your perspectives.
Thinking of art as something in which AI can't replace us is really debatable and not a really good argument. Cause, what if AI in a couple years can create well fleshed out illustration? If that happens then you are admitting artists lost.
I'm not interested on if it can replace artists cause I'm certain it could in some years. I'm interested in the morality and legality of how AI has been used in the last months, and how it will be used un the years to come.
I'm not afraid of AI, it's a fascinating concept and I want to see how it develops. I'm, on the other hand, afraid of the use big companies will give it and if it's going to be regulated at all.
Just do art for fun and work a normal job for living. Why is that so bad?
@@Cyberpunk644 Because people want to do what they love for a living, also seeing how the economy is going most people will need to work longer hours or have more then one job, leaving them either exhausted or unable to have time for art. Have some fucking empathy.
@@dreinstar2352 is it better to have empathy or tell people what's realistic out there to avoid starving to death?
@@dreinstar2352 I find you giving people false hope is worse than tell it like how it is. Feelings don't pay for food.
No, that's a totally fair point. There aren't many arguments that can be made on this subject that couldn't easily be proven wrong as the tech continues to develop. I'm certainly in wait and see mode. It seems like every time someone says "it will never be able to do..." it seems like it does. It will be very interesting to see how the legal landscape addresses this.
I think the thing about AI is yes its a tool like everything else, and its only as good as the input its given......but am I right in understanding it can basically rip off and plagiarise other artists work without any credit or permission from the original artist? so unpoliced or unrestricted it means people can rip off other peoples hard work?
A.I. art is more than clicking buttons and adding some words. It's about the experience the user has within the design world. I have a bachelor's in design and sound design. I am also a certified 3D artist. With that said, I have spent the past year immersed in A.I. A.I. is a tool that, if used in unique ways, can express completely new concepts that have never even been thought of by a human. I feel it's a living organism connected to the cosmos or extraterrestrial in so many ways. Prompting is a skill, and you do have to have some terminology and understanding of visual and technical design to achieve the results necessary for groundbreaking work. I feel society will embrace it soon. New technology comes every 20 years that really shakes society, and we are at that timeline. I am using A.I. now to design a VR concept, and wow, I am so excited to continue this project; it is like anything I've ever seen :) So embrace these new tools; if we can achieve ideas quickly and effectively and use them as tools, this is a great leap for humanity :)
I really appreciate the perspective and I'm glad that this is working for a skilled artist like yourself. I think change is just scary and most artists who are digital painters like myself find this threatening and sad. As time has passed (and I think this video is almost a year old), I am considerable more at peace with A.I. generators presence in our world just because the world keeps spinning and artists are still doing their thing. The speed of all of these changes does concern me and the notion that AGI could render all human cognitive tasks obsolete (which is something I keep hearing) is just mind boggling. Seriously though - thank you for this comment - very informative and interesting to hear from someone who is embracing this wholeheartedly. I wish you and your work the best!
You guys are discussing AI where it was on the day you spoke. The limitations you discussed are going to be overcome in short order.
Yeah, things move so fast on this topic that it feels like any comment can become outdated in very short order. We'll see where this all ends up for artists and humanity at large. Going to be a weird 5 years ahead.
Most limitations already gone to be honest. It improves so damn fast
I believe that though AI art can be a boon to artists, especially those who don't work for any companies, the copyright infringement can prove to be the greatest hurdle for more established artists. Imagine if someone can get an AI generated image in your style. Who would want to buy your art then? Preventing this from happening can help them keep their jobs. Much like any emerging technology, kinks will have to be ironed out, especially if the affected community pressured the makers in question.
Perhaps anyone wishing to become an artist may do so not only at the encouragement of existing artists but because they like the challenge, even if they are more comfortable with using AI art. Of course, this is merely speculation on my part; there's really no telling how a new technology will actually affect society. It could be worse than what we imagine now or it could be one of the greatest things ever. Factories and automobiles have supplanted artisans and horses respectively but there are still people who handcraft goods and those who breed horses, albeit in smaller numbers. Regardless, there is no shortage of people who still admire their efforts.
Maybe we as artists would have to change the public's perception as well as our own on what art is really about.
Thanks u guys! I was just freaked out when I saw ai art images,and thoughts we are finished 😅...but I also saw it's a batter option in early process for generating idea! Is it good or bad to do? that I don't know!
I don't think I know anything at all for sure about any of this so I say use it however feels right to you and we'll just have to see how this all plays out.
@@fowlerillus thank you!
I feel like AI might help motivate artists to put more of themselves in their work (sense of humor, personal experiences etc) instead of 'just' drawing pretty girls
Interesting that you say this because I find myself deliberately trying to be as human and unpredictable as possible in my specifically because of AI art :) It's an interesting motivator and may push us all into work we wouldn't have attempted otherwise.
In how long I don't know, but I think it'll take over eventually, when a new tool comes out that makes the old way of doing things irrelevant, the old way is tossed out for the most part. I see it happen a lot with 3D applications, things that used to have to be done by hand, now you just click a button and it's basically ready. The old ways are still around and can be used, but less and less, unless you feel up for a challenge or have a feeling of nostalgia. People will still be able to come up with awesome art, but AI could do the same thing in your style faster than you can blink. Maybe the concept artist will be more of an art director. Give the AI some idea, maybe guide it with a sketch and let it do its magic. Eventually you won't even need to do anything. It'll just be spitting out content on its own, AI make a movie for me, and it'll create something awesome based on what you like. Maybe when AI becomes sentient, then it'll be like no, do it yourself.
Interesting perspectives and I know what you mean about all of the smart tools being added to apps over the years. Thanks for the comment and let’s hope that the AI refuses to work sooner than later :)
AI generators gives me Anxiety. Does anyone is see that cat hopping so cool
Yeah, it's definitely something that makes me long for the days before AI. That cat stole the show :)
AI art is 'merely' finding an optimum)between the constituent commands/words based only on the images it has been fed. It doesn't have a higher level viewpoint, reason or direction behind what it is creating (I think that's what you mean by 'there's no humanity'). If one would be considered to be an artist with AI then they are really trained language jockeys manipulating a black box - nothing inherintly wrong with that but it isn't the traditional notion of artist. This will be the case until AI art is actually just a minor part of a much more complicated/general AI (which we are nowhere close to).
One of the big issues is there can be little to differentiate the human vs computer directed art for general or simple subjects. I imagine the AI engines will get tuned to deliver correctly for the low hanging fruit - particularly for business graphics..
Great points and the whole word-smithing side of this really is a skillset and we shouldn't totally dismiss that.
@@fowlerillus I should have used a less dismissive term than jockey (although jockeys might argue). Would this cross over into the experts being considered visual poets? Drawingmancers? :)
So now art will become just a hobby for more of us soon. I'm myself choosing IT or 3d modelling, but then Midjourney and other stuff came out from nowhere. And this leaves me one choice. But i think someday AI will replace programmers too. This scares me, but i understand that progress can't be stoped.
I strangely find comfort in the notion that AI is likely to have much wider implications than we can currently predict. If some tech world hyperbole is to be believed then this really could affect everyone. It could be a very strange few years ahead.
The problem lies when people argue that it is a tool is that 1, dude you can see it in thier description literally saying it does not need skill, a skill of an artist has. 2 the false comparison between the technological improvements of the past of which the goal is to help artist to this nukish nature of this tech meant to replace you. Like let change things a bit and say you are a manufacturer employee and every year they a bit technological equipment from hand-powered, to mechanical, and lastly to electrical power tool for you to use is that a replacement? No. What a bout they add a robot with said power-tool and the company fired you because you are not needed is it a tool? yes, sadly not for you.
Great points. Steven Zapata's video really nailed all of this for me (which I saw the day after I posted this) and he made some similar points. If you haven't seen it, I have linked it in the description and posted some of his resources on the topic. The man practically wrote a doctoral thesis - I don't know how he did it! Thanks for your perspectives
> *1, dude you can see it in thier description literally saying it does not need skill,*
So? How does that negate the potential to use it as a tool? You don't need a lot of skill to dick around in Photoshop, that doesn't make Photoshop not a tool, for instance.
Here's the important question I didn't hear being mentioned when talking about Ai not costing jobs, do you think a suit will care and not just go with the cheapest option to meet their budget target to get their bonus? That's how things work in the real world and "tools" like this are just making it easier for those type of people to rip off and devalue the whole creative process.
Definitely concerning. Great points.
I find a lot of artists can spot AI but the general public can't.
I think you're probably right about that. We are more tuned into those nuances than most. For example, I have trouble spotting any weirdness in Sora videos but I'm sure film-makings can easily. Such strange times we're living in as artists!
I have seen a lot of maniac level artists always inspiring me with new ideas, techniques etc... AI is cool too I even try to learn the techniques from master studying AI art too sometimes and inspecting breaking down the techniques there too. But with real artists it is always the bleeding edge techniques and workflows I can never give up on them. The humans are really wild with creation!
They are indeed. I love the term Maniac Level Artist. Very human :) Thanks for these perspectives - great stuff and I wish you and your art well!
Of course is already affecting the artists, for example deviant art has a plague of ai images right now, that means its harder to find real artwork on the front page made by people and not a machine, that means less exposition, less exposition equals less clients. I have already see some clients using ai art instead for covers.
I haven't checked out Devniantart in a long time - that's a bummer to hear. I agree that this flood of AI art is muddying the waters considerably.
It would be interesting to see if you are able to perceive the “soul” of an art piece without knowing beforehand whether it has been created by a human or an AI. I think the deeper question, what really scares us, is _not_ how extraordinary the machine could be in the future, but how ordinary we could have been all along.
Really great points. It would be interesting to do a blind comparison and see how often we can't tell which is which. Your last point is really incisive too - I hadn't thought of it like that and this just scratches at all of those reeeaallly deep questions that AI is dropping on us. Crazy to ponder.
I think that the thing that you see lacking in AI art at an emotional and communication level is what a trained artist could still provide even using AI as a starting point. There is a reason why professional photographers still exist even if we all have a camera in our pocket
That is such an excellent point.
I agree there is definetly a weird thing to a lot of the AI art, which reveals the painting as AI generated. I feel it that way anyways, interesting that more people realized that.
I think Adam nailed it by calling it a Spidey-sense reaction. Something is just missing from a lot of this stuff and it really may be that human factor/communication that makes it feel hollow.
@@fowlerillus yeah! love that take on it
I kinda stand in a wierd spot on AI Art, on the one hand just because someone uses a calculator doesn't mean they don't know math. A calculator hower is useless if they don't.
You can't make the generated image better if you don't know how to. I don't think you can word these specific things in a way a computer can understand them.
What worries me more are the copyright, and fair use questions the fact that they don't ask for permission if they train the AI with Art is baffling.
how about they need to pay the artist for everytime an artist is named as a prompt? Midjourney wants money for their service, then they should pay the ones who helped them create it in the first place.
I saw some people saying their gonna make a game only out of generated art. The end result will probably look like a cheap asset flip since in a lot of cases they lack cohesion. even if they use the same AI for all of them.
The sad thing is that jobs are gonna be lost on this. If not in big studios, in indie studios but more realisticly in all of them.
When you have the hastag "promptartist" floating around...you know we're doomed.
Oof. Yeah, I agree that is not a good sign.
artstation market place is flooded by this now. Artists are struggling already to support themselves. just a sad state
It really is. I share your disappointment with how Artstation has navigated this. It seems like it would have been such an obvious and good move to fully support and protect artists from this, but they have really had a half measure approach that leaves things very muddy moving forward. I'm hopeful that things can change.
Something I found interesting in this video is when he said he wasn't getting any reduction in income from AI art.
Lots of artists at the bottom are literally being told to their faces that they shouldn't have money wasted on them, me included. I'm not famous enough that people care for my commissions as some kind of status or something, they just type what they want into AI and get a "better result" in their opinion. All of my friends have started to struggle to sell their artwork, and it's getting a little insane with how people don't care enough about others to not tell them their art is "completely worthless" or at least "not worth what they're charging" (we all have cheap-ass prices man, and one of my friends literally charges an hourly wage instead of a specific one for art pieces of different types). My art and my friend's art are actively being devalued because we're not famous, and we still have mistakes we make that are noticeable. It is irritating though when AI makes the same mistakes or worse and is regarded as better.
I guess it kinda made me giggle. Not in a good way, but I think the brain reads laughter the same way regardless? I don't know.
Damn, I hate to hear that and it's especially troubling that you're hearing those abusive comments about your work. Not ok. It's unfair that artists trying to launch careers are being affected by this disproportionately. It is my hope that some of the shininess of this new thing will wear off and those janky AI mistakes will become more visible to the public at large but I just have no idea where this is all heading. I'm really sorry to hear that you are struggling. I wish you success.
I believe what a lot of creatives are not realising yet, is that they are like horses. Horses which are seeing cars being developed and used and yet don't realise fully what that means for them and their position. Some look at those cars and panic. Others look at them in indifference. And others mock those cars for being loud, noisy, not working correctly. They will never "replace" them. Particularly as, why would anyone chose a car over a horse in the first place? A horse is a living being!
A bit ridiculous. But seriously. AI as how it is developed right now and Art is really just one branch here, is meant to be for mental tasks what machines are for physical labour. What really surprises me, from a programming perspective, is the general application of the AI algorithms. I always knew that this was their purpose but I was astonished at how far it has already achieved developed in that timeframe. 10-15 years ago I heard the first time about AI algorithms being trained on images for recognition and already back then it was obvious that such algorithms would one day be capable of solving seemingly complex mental tasks. And they are already so far in their use that AI can rate school essays and write drug prescriptions while being comparable with humans when it comes to errors. And there is still room for improvements. The amount of potential for increase in efficiency here is exponential. And that's often neglected in the discussion. The changes to how work is done and understood today, in a social and economic sense. AI is not meant to replace humans. It's first and foremost a tool but not for a single application. The question is not what ever if AI will be a tool for artists or a tool for teachers, beacuse it is not. It's a tool for efficiency. Speeding up a work process and thus making it cheaper. A project which might have required 30 people to finish could be now done eventually by 3. And maybe in half the time. It's impossible to say what effect that will have on the labour market and economy in the future. Particularly on a society which is mainly based around consumerism and income trough labour. I am not advocting right now for a universal basic income. I am just stating the current economic model and the potential disruptive effect of exponential efficiency on the labour force. Because there is a line at which point a human can not "outcompete" a machine. And while some individuals can find ways to explot a niche and eventually make a career out of it this will not be true for everyone. We're already seeing it taking place in many industries. From the coal industry with a transition to renewables which require much less work forces to the car industry with the electric car or many blue and white collar jobs being subject to automatition.
And this is what AI algorithms actually mean for commercial artists and creativies. It's a form for automatition. Not a form of "art" generation. This is often missunderstood I think. And you can not compete with automatition trough skill. It's like trying to compete with a robot in assemply lines.
The ultimate question I think will boil down to the fact how quickly the labour market and society can addapt without being too heavily disrupted. It is a difference if you have 300.000 People losing their income or if it's 3 Million people. We're already seeing whole regions being heavily affected by economic changes like those. The whole so called "Rust Belt" of the United States which never fully recovered from the deindustrialisation that took place as steel manufacturing, the car industry and other key industries either moved away or became obsolete. It is easy to ignore systemic issues when you see eveything from an individual perspective. This will have very broad implications even on a political landscape if the income situation becomes more instable for a lot of people and labour is getting devalued while economic power is concentrated in a few key regions where as others are left underdeveloped.
Is this all a reason to panic? I don't know. But it should definetly be a concer at the very least. Because the effects go much further than just the creative industry. It's actually a development which has taken place more than 20-30 years ago and is eventually accelerating in the near future.
That's an interesting analogy and some great points. So much of what is being said about AI fits this perfectly. It's amazing how much it feels like things change weekly in this whole space.
1:35 Omg cat cameo! Cat cameo!
We certainly can't stop this technical evolution, it's inevitable. But it being a thread, right now isn't for existing artists, it can be used more as a tool, i think artists who are already in business will flourish if they use it just for ideas. Maybe after 10-20 years the coming generation would have a completely different perspective and approach about art and there'll be a merger between 2. Leading the increase in jobs we never heard of and discarding many that exist now. It won't be as artistic and authentic and I really don't like the idea of it, the industry should be as it is now and in the benefit of real artists, I think it's our responsibility to keep it going and guide the next generation as Hardy said.
Hardy and Adam, you both are my fav internet teachers and I hope you do put more collabs together. It's always nice to learn from you.
The demand still stay the same... This is the similarity with Machinery replacing human labour.
This is what I've been telling others!
Glad to hear it! As you can see from the comments, the opinions are very strong and very polarized, but I think we all just need to keep doing what we're doing, embrace and adapt as much as possible and see where this all settles.
Reality is often a cold heartless b*! Coming from a poor background, I worked hard and had to fight for what I am today as a professional artist and now it feels like all those days of toil and suffering have all been for nothing.
So sorry to hear this. Hopefully the impact on your clients and livelihood won't be as bad as many fear but regardless, it's a terribly feeling to worry like that. Your accomplishments and your art matter - don't give up.
Honestly I just see this as big companies trying to monopolize visual art on a whole, When you think about it visual art is an entire industry that for a long time was very difficult for big corporations to fully exploit and there's no denying that there's money in this field despite public perception. Honestly this might sound conspiratorial but I think they just created these apps so that they could just have huge monopoly on the industry and tried to disguise it as a means for everyone to be creative. The big corporations can save money by laying off teams of artists and not hiring freelances and at the same time make even more money by distributing these software to naive people fooling them into thinking they can make money by selling prompt art, but in reality something that takes this little effort to make will have little value as the market oversaturates and even the biased people who were all for this AI art progression will soon realize that the prompt art is worthless due to the fact that anyone can make it by typing a prompt. Meanwhile big corporations just take in all the money they can get with the exploitation of art while simultaneously killing the medium. Don't know if you agree or not but honestly this really seems like the big plan they had...it may offer benefits for people who cant afford freelancers for small projects like book and album cover illustrations but with advent of AI music and literature those facets of art could ultimately meet a similar fate MAYBE with the exception of music since the copyright laws for that are incredibly strict. I just don't get how people don't realize the easier something is to make for the average person the less value it has in the long run, that's why low skilled jobs pay so much less most of the time. To really some it up this was really sinister in it's inception, lets create a database with peoples art without their permission for an "AI" that spits out a derivative while we're simultaneously profiting off all the time they spent perfecting their skills and disguise it as a useful tool for everyone. They're also well aware of how slow copyright laws are to catch up so they know by the time laws are put in place to protect artists the damage has already been done. I dont blame the casual people using it but the huge Corporations who funded it as well as the biased tech bros who keep spreading the lie by how useful it is.
I don't think that sounds conspiratorial at all. I think you're right that money is usually the driving factor when new tech comes into the equation. Thanks for your perspectives.
"It's an optional tool, up too the individual" is so devastatingly naive.
I will give my 2 cents not as the artist but as the designer by profession. I've been a designer for more than 25 years. I started designing before the explosion of computers and of course the creation of Adobe design products. Those have been incredible tools for the profession. Those are tools that required technical skills of how they work but are useless unless the person have knowledge of design, color composition, typography etc. I've meet people (many clients) who bought the tools and try to create designs and told me it was easier for them to do it, and CHEAPER.
Then we got a myriad of additional tools that would create the designs automatically, including logos and fonts, and they started to cut the "middle man = designer".
So here is where everything changes. This is not about how great of a tool can be, or how much more an artist can do with it. it is about how EASIER, FASTER, and CHEAPER people can create art without any technical or artistic knowledge. "Clients" can now create those images paying so much less, and they will choose always money over artistry.
It is not going to make art or artists disappear, but it will cut many projects and will force artists to cut on what they charge if they want to compete.
I've given my speech to many clients about how a tool is a tool, and nothing can equal the knowledge and experience of a designer, but it was harder and harder to believe it myself, and it was harder and harder to convince them to pay me for it. At the end of the day, many felt they could do it better and faster and get exactly what they wanted without my help. I comforted myself saying that in any case I wouldn't want to work with clients that feel that way, but some months were hard to pay for rent.
I don't think you can stop models from being trained on other artists. I mean, there is no way to really enforce that, especially when it's often not being used for profit.
What we can control is its use in industry work, protecting jobs. We need better laws like what musicians and other creatives have. There is a lot of work to be done for sure.
Sadly law always lags behind technological progress. Hopefully we'll see some changes in the coming years.
I think that's exactly right. It was good to see Karla Ortiz testifying in front of Senate. At least we are shining a light on the ethical issues here and hoping plotting a responsible way forward. I hope you're right - I'm feeling more optimistic than I have in a while.
I think this is just the revenge of the programmers on artists. That's just a personal opinion but I think it holds some ground, artists can very easily get praise from the general public no matter their skill level as long as they get an emotional reaction out of the people. Programmers no matter how extremely skilled they might be, almost never get any eyes on them or any praise. There's more glamour and prestige in art and just think about how romanticized artists are in movies and stories. How many people fall in love in the image of the artist? How many people fall in love with the image of the programmer?
My conspiracy theory aside, the solution is simple. Don't use it, ban it. It's not their choice, the industry doesn't decide, it doesn't come down to what "others" will do, it depends on what we as individuals do. Don't use it, don't talk about it, ban it, silence it.
If there are art communities flooded with AI make your own and don't allow any AI image in it.
I don't know about you but I've really had enough with industries, corporations and programmers telling me what's the next thing I should be doing, using, thinking, talking about, buying, engaging with.
They don't get to choose, we do!
Great perspectives. A good reminder to be more appreciative of the programmers that concept artists often work with.
How would you know if it was made AI in order to keep it out of your group?
The stuff is far and away better than even 4 months ago. It no longer has “the look” for many applications.
You won’t be able to tell what is AI and what is not to keep it out of a group this time next year.
@@BrianReplies Yeah this is all developing so quickly, it's crazy.
i already see advertisements fully using AI
My main problems with this technology is that it's ethically trained wrong.
I'm fine with AI art existing I think the ones that are trained on purely public-domain images and art is fine and it's a great tool to make textures or to find references you don't have.
Midjourney, Stablediffusion & novelAI however are trained on lots of data that is not public domain. Lots of things that where reposted behind paywalls as well or in the LAION datasets case on literal medical photographs that are not supposed to be public at all also trained on deepfakes of celebrity's for example that you would get instantly DMCA'd if it would be put on a big SNS. it's an ethical dilemma that I hope IP lawyers see as a good way to make money because all the main leaders from the push right now are pretty much grifters and deserve to be bankrupted.
I'm in the sphere of both tech and art and I dearly hope artists band together to form unions and label company's similar to the music industry. Yes this might harm us artists in the long run but I'd rather have us be hurt a little bit then see the entire industry die out due to greedy people.
I agree completely. Steven Zapata's video on the subject, specifically how the data sets were trained, was really eye opening for me. Everything derived from that seems like fruit of the poisonous tree and it will be very interesting to see how the legal situation plays out.