Very valuable input for us swim-mortals. One thing I would love to see in a future video, would be a comparison of breathing on every second, every third, or every fourth stroke (all for open water swimming).
In my experience, the greats in most sports seldom have a text book technique. They have a one that has been adapted to their own body. Case in point, take a look at Froome cycling, head down, elbows stuck out flapping in the wind, or even the great Eddy Merckx bobbing his head up and down.
I still remember watching NFL a couple of years back. Before the game, experts were explaining everything that is wrong and weird with Aaron Rodgers' throw. Apparently, he's doing so much wrong when it comes to proper technique. Afterwards, I witnessed some of the most spectacular, perfectly on-point throws by Aaron Rodgers. Just like you said, there's text book theory and then there's real life masters
Excellent!! Can you please, please, please do something similar for an ITU distance triathlete!!!! Stroke rate vs kick rate etc...very valuable info for us wanting to improve :)
"We have a lot of swim footage of Lucy Charles-Barclay, so i decided that i would have to be the one that was forced to sit through it all... for... science..." 😁😁😁
Nice video Mark - really interesting to see foibles even in the stroke of someone who I could only dream of swimming like. Keep up the great content (some people are hard to please).
If she switched to an increased arm turn over to suit open water , does this increase come with more energy expenditure. How long would it take to become accustomed to this????. Thanks
Undoubtedly the best swimmer of the long distance triathlon races nowdays...however i can apreciatte in her tecnique a non straight right arm entrance in the water wich it's actually bent, asimetric to her left arm wich has a perfect straight entrance in the water,this maybe has to do with her breathing side and years and years doing the same, once beneath the surface she has a very efficient high elbow catch wich it's at the end the master key for a fast swim.
I'm obviously no expert... but I have had a few swim lessons in recent years, and my coach was always trying to get my stroke more balanced - i.e. the left and right parts of my body doing more or less the same thing. With Lucy there, there is a very clear difference between what her right arm does vs what her left arm does. Is this, in your opinion, not such a big issue? Or would she be even faster if she was more "balanced"??
I see more camera on Mark, than on Lucy. I kept wanting to see her slo-motion under water catch and pull, but got more of Mark commenting. Maybe next time.
Ditto. But what you can see from the footage, which wasn't mentioned, is that she has an S-shape pull which some research has shown to be more efficient but others counsel against. What it does do is provide a counterbalance and assistance to the rotation and allow the shoulders to remain yoked ie in line and hence generating more power. What we need to remember is that she wasn't a star of international pool swimming. Perhaps her less than perfect technique is one of the reasons because she certainly has plenty of strength and aerobic fitness.
Hey guys, I need some advice. Me and my 2 friends want to do a relay triathlon where 1 does the swim 1 does the cycle and obviously the last does the run. But I’ve only found team relays where we all have to do all 3. And we all 14 so age is an Issue as all the ones I have found are 15+. Any help would be great guys. Cheers Joe. Ps FIRST
And what we have to do? Change the rules that you can do a relay triathlon? :) At least in our country we have 3 versions of a relay triathlon - mix relay (male / female / male / female, everybody does all disciplines and everybody starts after each other), 3x relay (three athletes, the rules are like for mix relay) and "I-you-he" (where everybody does only one discipline and this is what are you looking for). In all cases you have to be at least 15 years old. Just wait one more year and the you can have fun :)
I don´t think that there´s a perfect technique that suits everybody. I think there´s the best technique for you depending on how your body is, how you move.. like in cycling the position on the bike from one athlete to another can be very different, and you have to find what is best and more efficient for you. This is maybe the most efficient technique for Lucy herself, and it works, but maybe for me, you or another this won´t perfectly work. More videos like this please! thanks
Exactly. It's really interesting if you watch, say, the Olympic 200m free final, you'll more or less see 8 different stroke patterns from the 8 competitors. As in, all vary in elbow angle, stroke rate, hand position, arm position during recovery, etc..More about hours in the pool, less about a perfect technique (granted, their baselines are all extremely efficient)
lucy dont look fluid to me or efficient. i see drags in the water in her upper body included the hand entry. I think lucy's arms are just gifted strong done other top girls. i believe she has a high pain tolerance in swimming. the ability to hold the burning sensation in her body and able to maintained that effort. The mind of lucy is set to be the fastest tri swimmer in the ironman space. thats why shes all out with it in swim legs and eventually she always got caught in the bike leg. All in all i think Lucy's swim is her greatest weapon.
Her hands are way too far from her body when over the water. They should be around 20-30 cm from the body - going in one straight line and not a curve. It results in her wiggling a little from side to side. And she reaches too far out to the sides under the water. The hand should be under the shoulder while the arm is perpendicular to the body under the water - again it is about 20-30 cm - because her other hand, over the water, is too far out - only way to keep the balance is to put the below arm further out to the side. Both are because she does not rotate her hips enough to get the hands closer to the midline - she twists in her torso. And she crosses the midline with her right arm.
Actually from the various interviews with Lucy and Reese, Reese is the faster pool swimmer because he has better pool form whereas Lucy’s faster natural stroke rate gave her an advantage when they started triathlons
I don't know where you got the idea that the hand should be under the body during the pull. you want to avoid that at all cost. it should be somewhere between what Lucy is doing and your body, creating an angle around 100° between your upper and lower arm.
devidia from my years of swimming. I’m sure there are other teachings out there. I came from swimming internationally before going into triathlon, so I’m not totally clueless on swimming. It’s more the unsymmetrical pull that I was commenting on. She pulls underneath her body with her left hand due to the rotation and bend in her arm, but obviously not with her right. There is no perfect, or set technique, so I am not saying this is wrong
@@markthrelfall3577 agreed that there is no perfect set of technique, but there is reasonable consensus that you should NOT pull beneath your body, which totally neglects the bigger muscle groups. Fine by me if you want to use the argument of 'experience', but it won't make you swim any faster...
Mark, I generally like GTN, but your advice here is better for good (elite) swimmers. Bad swimmers, like me, should not worry about rotation. Instead simply make your arms look like greater than and less than under the water (one at a time of course). Put your right arm in straight then immediately make this shape >, repeat with the left < . I promise you will feel it in your lats and its way easier to accomplish. If you swim straight armed, even if you rotate your pecks will get sore first. Once you can feel it in your lats more, work to increase your stroke rate (by swimming a lot). Not many regular people can swim at 90 strokes a minute (I am pretty sure I never will) and doing so requires moving your arms through the water really fast. You need A TON of fitness for this, i.e. time swimming. Its like running a 5 minute mile.
Colin H I couldn’t agree more. I have said this in previous videos actually. Nail some of the fundamentals like the catch and pull before worrying about rotation. However, this was an analysis of Lucy’s technique, rather than telling you how to swim. She’s an incredible swimmer, so I thought it would be an interesting insight as to how and why. So yeah, I agree with you completely
She makes some mistakes in technic. As long as she is sliding, she must avoid generate space betwen kneck and arms to reduce friction. In the same movement, when she breath, do not lift your head over the water. The stroke is open wide. She must keep floating with one arm as the other one complete the stroke. The catch under the water must be stright the body, not down the body because you create resistance. Good rotation and kick. Keep trying Lucy. Greetings from a beginer swimmer.
The form and style of swimming in Olympics and shorter distances is substantially different than that of a half or full triathlon swimming distance. Plus the most popular Olympic swimmers are pool swimmers whereas triathletes are open water swimmers, so there again arises a difference in style. For example: The sight before taking a breath, the kicking frequency, the technique of hand entering the water, etc. All these have been addressed by Mark in the video.
@@vishalb08 what you are saying is true, pool swimmers is not comparable to open swimmers, but within olimpic race there is also an open water event, 10 km for instance.
You forget she was an international swimmer. One of the best GB open water swimmers before triathlon. Triathlon strokes and pool swimming strokes are quite different. I’ve raced Olympic pool swimmers open water, and they have really struggling in the chop and mass start. It’s a different game, so it’s important we look at those nailing it in the sport specific to us
Very valuable input for us swim-mortals. One thing I would love to see in a future video, would be a comparison of breathing on every second, every third, or every fourth stroke (all for open water swimming).
In my experience, the greats in most sports seldom have a text book technique. They have a one that has been adapted to their own body. Case in point, take a look at Froome cycling, head down, elbows stuck out flapping in the wind, or even the great Eddy Merckx bobbing his head up and down.
I still remember watching NFL a couple of years back. Before the game, experts were explaining everything that is wrong and weird with Aaron Rodgers' throw. Apparently, he's doing so much wrong when it comes to proper technique. Afterwards, I witnessed some of the most spectacular, perfectly on-point throws by Aaron Rodgers. Just like you said, there's text book theory and then there's real life masters
"Swim like Lucy Charles-Barclay" - Play Basketball like Michael Jordan, Run like Steve Prefontaine, Ride like Eddy Merckx. Untouchable. Great video
What about playing basketball like Charles Barkley?
Excellent!! Can you please, please, please do something similar for an ITU distance triathlete!!!! Stroke rate vs kick rate etc...very valuable info for us wanting to improve :)
Varga!!
Great swimming explanation, really good insights into the strokes. thank you.
"We have a lot of swim footage of Lucy Charles-Barclay, so i decided that i would have to be the one that was forced to sit through it all... for... science..." 😁😁😁
Great content Mark!!! It's mind boggling on how you guys come up with ideas to create such great content!!!!
Thanks!
"we can see how Lucy pulls" probably without too much bother! :D great video, now to the pool....
Nice video Mark - really interesting to see foibles even in the stroke of someone who I could only dream of swimming like. Keep up the great content (some people are hard to please).
Before this video, swimming topics were going into my "crosstraining" list... this one was saved to the just created "swimming" list :)
Thanks, wonderful video!
Great insight. Thanks
so bottom line: you can break all the "textbook" rules and be the best swimmer in your field if you're an alien. cool
Very useful video!
@Mark Threlfall do you favor a 4-beat or 2-beat kick for long open tri swims?
omg I honestly thought this said "Swim like Ray Charles" and I clicked on the video so fast!
I swim like Charles Barkley
Is he good?:)
@@vininio I imagine he swims similarly to how he golfs 🤣
ahahaha!!
Thank you, great video! Lucy is amazing!
If she switched to an increased arm turn over to suit open water , does this increase come with more energy expenditure. How long would it take to become accustomed to this????. Thanks
I noticed that Lucy was also doing the butterfly stroke. Does that helps on having a better more even stroke on freestyle swimming?
It can help with the catch phase and just overall strength and fitness
Undoubtedly the best swimmer of the long distance triathlon races nowdays...however i can apreciatte in her tecnique a non straight right arm entrance in the water wich it's actually bent, asimetric to her left arm wich has a perfect straight entrance in the water,this maybe has to do with her breathing side and years and years doing the same, once beneath the surface she has a very efficient high elbow catch wich it's at the end the master key for a fast swim.
DAVID RUIZR definitely. Agree with what you say. Super impressive under the water for sure
amazing!!!!!
I'm obviously no expert... but I have had a few swim lessons in recent years, and my coach was always trying to get my stroke more balanced - i.e. the left and right parts of my body doing more or less the same thing.
With Lucy there, there is a very clear difference between what her right arm does vs what her left arm does.
Is this, in your opinion, not such a big issue? Or would she be even faster if she was more "balanced"??
beedge I’m curious too 🤔
I see more camera on Mark, than on Lucy. I kept wanting to see her slo-motion under water catch and pull, but got more of Mark commenting. Maybe next time.
Ditto. But what you can see from the footage, which wasn't mentioned, is that she has an S-shape pull which some research has shown to be more efficient but others counsel against. What it does do is provide a counterbalance and assistance to the rotation and allow the shoulders to remain yoked ie in line and hence generating more power. What we need to remember is that she wasn't a star of international pool swimming. Perhaps her less than perfect technique is one of the reasons because she certainly has plenty of strength and aerobic fitness.
Hey guys,
I need some advice. Me and my 2 friends want to do a relay triathlon where 1 does the swim 1 does the cycle and obviously the last does the run. But I’ve only found team relays where we all have to do all 3. And we all 14 so age is an Issue as all the ones I have found are 15+. Any help would be great guys. Cheers Joe. Ps FIRST
And what we have to do? Change the rules that you can do a relay triathlon? :) At least in our country we have 3 versions of a relay triathlon - mix relay (male / female / male / female, everybody does all disciplines and everybody starts after each other), 3x relay (three athletes, the rules are like for mix relay) and "I-you-he" (where everybody does only one discipline and this is what are you looking for). In all cases you have to be at least 15 years old. Just wait one more year and the you can have fun :)
Roman Priesol no they do them I have found one down in slough in England. but I’m not free to do it.
I don´t think that there´s a perfect technique that suits everybody. I think there´s the best technique for you depending on how your body is, how you move.. like in cycling the position on the bike from one athlete to another can be very different, and you have to find what is best and more efficient for you. This is maybe the most efficient technique for Lucy herself, and it works, but maybe for me, you or another this won´t perfectly work. More videos like this please! thanks
Exactly. It's really interesting if you watch, say, the Olympic 200m free final, you'll more or less see 8 different stroke patterns from the 8 competitors. As in, all vary in elbow angle, stroke rate, hand position, arm position during recovery, etc..More about hours in the pool, less about a perfect technique (granted, their baselines are all extremely efficient)
What swim suit is she wearing, I’m looking for good quality swim wear
Do you think Lucy changed any firms to win this year’s championship? (2023)
Hmmm,...it looks like Lucy doesn't rotate with her body very much with her strokes.
lucy dont look fluid to me or efficient. i see drags in the water in her upper body included the hand entry. I think lucy's arms are just gifted strong done other top girls. i believe she has a high pain tolerance in swimming. the ability to hold the burning sensation in her body and able to maintained that effort. The mind of lucy is set to be the fastest tri swimmer in the ironman space. thats why shes all out with it in swim legs and eventually she always got caught in the bike leg. All in all i think Lucy's swim is her greatest weapon.
She came first of the bike leg in 2019 Kona.
Her hands are way too far from her body when over the water. They should be around 20-30 cm from the body - going in one straight line and not a curve. It results in her wiggling a little from side to side. And she reaches too far out to the sides under the water. The hand should be under the shoulder while the arm is perpendicular to the body under the water - again it is about 20-30 cm - because her other hand, over the water, is too far out - only way to keep the balance is to put the below arm further out to the side. Both are because she does not rotate her hips enough to get the hands closer to the midline - she twists in her torso. And she crosses the midline with her right arm.
Reese needs paddles in order to keep up 😂👍
Actually from the various interviews with Lucy and Reese, Reese is the faster pool swimmer because he has better pool form whereas Lucy’s faster natural stroke rate gave her an advantage when they started triathlons
Jodie Swallow
I would love to swim like Lucy but that swimsuit would look kooky on me 🥰
I don't know where you got the idea that the hand should be under the body during the pull. you want to avoid that at all cost. it should be somewhere between what Lucy is doing and your body, creating an angle around 100° between your upper and lower arm.
devidia from my years of swimming. I’m sure there are other teachings out there. I came from swimming internationally before going into triathlon, so I’m not totally clueless on swimming. It’s more the unsymmetrical pull that I was commenting on. She pulls underneath her body with her left hand due to the rotation and bend in her arm, but obviously not with her right. There is no perfect, or set technique, so I am not saying this is wrong
@@markthrelfall3577 agreed that there is no perfect set of technique, but there is reasonable consensus that you should NOT pull beneath your body, which totally neglects the bigger muscle groups. Fine by me if you want to use the argument of 'experience', but it won't make you swim any faster...
devidia likewise. There’s plenty out there to argue my thoughts. Agree to disagree 👌
@@markthrelfall3577 no i don't agree to disagree. Show me the evidence. Back up your statement
devidia 😂 you too
The hydrodynamics are interesting.
Mark, I generally like GTN, but your advice here is better for good (elite) swimmers. Bad swimmers, like me, should not worry about rotation. Instead simply make your arms look like greater than and less than under the water (one at a time of course). Put your right arm in straight then immediately make this shape >, repeat with the left < . I promise you will feel it in your lats and its way easier to accomplish. If you swim straight armed, even if you rotate your pecks will get sore first.
Once you can feel it in your lats more, work to increase your stroke rate (by swimming a lot). Not many regular people can swim at 90 strokes a minute (I am pretty sure I never will) and doing so requires moving your arms through the water really fast. You need A TON of fitness for this, i.e. time swimming. Its like running a 5 minute mile.
Colin H I couldn’t agree more. I have said this in previous videos actually. Nail some of the fundamentals like the catch and pull before worrying about rotation. However, this was an analysis of Lucy’s technique, rather than telling you how to swim. She’s an incredible swimmer, so I thought it would be an interesting insight as to how and why. So yeah, I agree with you completely
Mark Threlfall hey mark do you mind checking my comment out would really appreciate it.
Oooops, i thought this was how to swim with Lucy Charles. Giggidy goooo
Show🏊♂️
I mean no disrespect to Lucy Charles, but the fastest swimmer in triathlon is Richard Varga.
TriTim maybe swimmess?
She’s not be fastest. There are loads of athletes faster, but she’s certainly one of them, and made a huge impact on the long distance scene with it
her stroke is not great. her speed comes from her size, strength and endurance
Ffs 😂
She seems to be swimming like a beginner...
Kick timing and efficiency needs work. Especially noticeable from the side on
Your bouancy allow you to clear the water with arms.
not impressed
She makes some mistakes in technic.
As long as she is sliding, she must avoid generate space betwen kneck and arms to reduce friction.
In the same movement, when she breath, do not lift your head over the water.
The stroke is open wide.
She must keep floating with one arm as the other one complete the stroke.
The catch under the water must be stright the body, not down the body because you create resistance.
Good rotation and kick.
Keep trying Lucy.
Greetings from a beginer swimmer.
@Steve King of course i will reach more speed with eficient technique
I do apologize, but why not to make an analysis of olimpic champions in swimming? No one from triathletes can compete with them.
The form and style of swimming in Olympics and shorter distances is substantially different than that of a half or full triathlon swimming distance.
Plus the most popular Olympic swimmers are pool swimmers whereas triathletes are open water swimmers, so there again arises a difference in style.
For example: The sight before taking a breath, the kicking frequency, the technique of hand entering the water, etc. All these have been addressed by Mark in the video.
I’m pretty sure Lucy can beat anyone if she sets her mind to :)
@@vishalb08 what you are saying is true, pool swimmers is not comparable to open swimmers, but within olimpic race there is also an open water event, 10 km for instance.
Alongside the other points mentioned, I don’t think you are appreciating just how fast the top triathletes are.
You forget she was an international swimmer. One of the best GB open water swimmers before triathlon. Triathlon strokes and pool swimming strokes are quite different. I’ve raced Olympic pool swimmers open water, and they have really struggling in the chop and mass start. It’s a different game, so it’s important we look at those nailing it in the sport specific to us