Cinematic Excrement: Episode 104 - Mommie Dearest
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- Something something hangers...
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As a person with a parent with borderline personality disorder, her performance is 100% spot on. the fact that no one believes it though is kinda alienating.
Not alienating, alarming
Spoon Clank I do think Joan was mentally ill. Of course, that’s not an excuse, but it might explain why she inexplicably beat Christina with a wire hanger. Joan Crawford was also a neat freak and germaphobe, so she could have had an undiagnosed case of OCD.
@@beethovensfidelio wire hangers being common way of home abortions and abortion being the suspected reason for her infertility might have something to do with it as well.
Believe me, you're NOT the only one who knows Dunaway's performance isn't necessarily over the top!
So, admittedly I'm no expert, but I've taken several childhood development courses and a psychology of trauma course, and we learned that it's not uncommon for an abusive parent to concentrate their attention on one child and leave the rest relatively spared. It's entirely possible Christina's younger sisters never suffered direct abuse from their mother because they weren't the targets.
Yep classic Golden Child(ren) and Scapegoat dynamic going on
Good point!!!👌😎
Why?
@@DBSG1976 well, i believe it's a natural extension of human behavior. People have favorites, even favorite children - it's natural and, under normal circumstances, nothing to be ashamed of. With a Golden Child situation, that favoritism is simply taken to to such an extreme that it becomes abusive and toxic. It could also simply be a scapegoating situation - it's far easier to focus blame for problems at a single source, justified or not. If a child already exists at or near the bottom of an abusive parents totem pole, they'd be the natural target for such scapegoating.
The infamous "DaddyOFive" TH-cam channel regularly targeted one of the children for their sadistic "pranks," even encouraging the other kids to join in when they were clearly uncomfortable doing so.
I never found the wire hanger scene funny. It is quite scary. The issue was this women is portrayed having adopted these kids as a publicity stunt to improve her image once her career was failing. She didn't car for them, and couldn't handle that she was past her prime. The children were the only ones she could unload her frustrations on, sadly. The incident with the soap opera is proof enough, at least for the film's narrative that the women was clinging to a career was over. She was her own worst enemy.
She needed a checkup from the neck up. - Buggs Bunny
Internet, bring me the 🪓. JK,
Completely agreed
How was that funny? That's what I asked while watching the review.
I never got that, either. I mean, isn't she the one buying the kid's clothes? If wire hangers will send her into a near homicidal rage, then why doesn't she buy other hangers? The poor girl just used what was in her closet.
@@origamipein18 I agree. My own mom did something similar to me over putting clothes on wire hangers. All I remember from the rant is that it warps the clothes or some shit. My only thought as a kid was, "Why do we have wire hangers in the house to begin with?"
I kinda have to agree with Brad Jones’s defense of Faye Dunaway’s performance. Yes it’s over-the-top but if you read a few of Joan Crawford’s actual quotes you do get the impression she was a very larger than life person. It’s kind of hard to have someone play her and not be at least a little over the top. But that doesn’t fix a lot of the movies other problems.
Also the scenes of abuse are truly terrifying.
Reminds me of Roger Ebert's review of Jenny McCarthy's performance in DIRTY LOVE: he admitted it was a very bad performance, yet admired its sheer fearlessness!
Agree with Brad Jones--I thought she was Oscar-worthy in this!
I love the Cinema snob. I actually ran into him when I went to go see war for the planet of the apes in Springfield where he used to live. I had watched him for years and legit didn't know he lived in Springfield until I ran into him 😆😆😆. It's funny because I looked back and he mentioned where he lived in his videos several times.
@@jerraldwest2935 I thought he still lived there...........has he moved since then?
@@davidl570 he moved to Chicago to be closer to his friend Doug Walker so they can do more crossovers. He now records most episodes of the Cinema snob in the channel awesome studio building.
As crazy and comedic as it looks, to me, the overblown acting actually feels real, and I can relate to Christina, because I know how an over controlling parent does react, and that acting, despite it’s unbelievability on the screen, is very real if you’ve ever lived under the roof with a hysteric crazy person from a young age.
I remember reading a reddit thread about this, and someone said something I'll never forget: "if you didn't grow up in an abusive household, you can't understand the concept of someone angrily folding a sock at you." It sounds absurd at face value, but for those of us who have lived it, we get it, and it is _fucking terrifying._
Amen. Nothing in Mommie Dearest looked unfamiliar to me. That's why I don't doubt Christina's story.
@@WobblesandBean That is so accurate. My mother never had the hysterics, just cold, malevolent anger and something like angrily folding a sock is wince inducing.
I thought HE was implying that her over-the-top acting suggested things weren't really all THAT bad. I missed the part where apparently the movie was being marketed as a quasi-comedy ... WTF ...
The abuse is real. I know, as my biological grandfather beat the crud out of me for wetting the bed. His wife would then read the book of Proverbs over me, telling me that I was evil and wicked and deserved it. it's taken me decades to get over this. It caused my aversion to religion and anything having to do with God. I no one to turn to as Mom was always either in nursing school or stoned; my hyper religious father refused to condemn him because someone who loved Jesus couldn't be all bad. I don't find this movie funny one bit. In fact I find it hard to watch, because I know what its like; just add the religious component to it.
4:15 That quote is soooo rage inducing.
The fact that Christina was a difficult child is the RESULT of abuse. Not the cause. Because in children, PTSD symptoms often look like behavioral issues. Traumatized kids often act out as a way to externalize their inner turmoil.
It’s why many kids who have endured severe trauma are often misdiagnosed as having oppositional defiant disorder (which is a real DSM diagnosis) and/or ADHD. If anyone is interested in learning more about this, I recommend reading *The Boy Who Was Raised as a Dog* by Bruce Perry
I myself became very explosive as a child, because I had learned early on that if I could either hurt my mother's feelings enough to upset her, she'd leave me alone. Consequently, if I could enrage her enough, I'd get screamed at, _a lot,_ but that would be all. As a result I was very sullen, argumentative, and quick to anger. I'm 35 now and I'm still unpacking all of that trying to change those patterns.
@@WobblesandBean oof. I am so sorry you went through that. Healing from childhood trauma is a long and hard path, and I hope you find support and healing.
@@Discworld-Edge-Witch Thanks hun, that means a lot. That book sounds interesting, I think I'll check it out.
Yep. My dad’s a teacher who works with emotionally troubled teenagers and a lot of them are pretty emotionally unstable because they were abused/are being abused. He’s been screamed at countless times, punched, kicked, even *bitten* by his students, and he has never once even raised a hand towards them in response because he knows that hitting these kids is the worst possible thing he could do (not to mention, he’s a huge guy-over six feet tall and upwards of 200lb, and he used to play rugby). Kids like that, kids like Christina, don’t need to be hit. They’re the way they are because they were hit. They need counselling.
@@leow3696 I'm a therapist who used to work with kids in child protective services. While I was never physically injured by any of my clients , I have my share of psychic battle scars.
Your dad is doing Yeoman's work (the secular equivalent of doing God's work.)
"Madam, you're rich, you live in a huge-ass mansion, and you're a famous Hollywood star. Besides Cary Grant, what have you not had??"
And with that line, I nearly choked to death. One of your best!
Brian Sparrow To be fair, Joan was born poor, so it’s obvious that she wanted Christina to not suffer the ill effects of poverty she dealt with.
@@beethovensfidelio More likely, she did not want anyone to know she had been poor, and didn't want to be associated with poverty, either directly or indirectly. My mother only let us wear clothes that actually fit when we were going to be on "display".
Considering the rumours a botched abortion is the reason behind Crawford's inability to have kids, I can't be only one to think the 'no wire coathangers' scene was a subtle nod and a wink to that incident.
4 Wheels & 1 Hat this makes so much sense! Watched this movie so many times as a child.
😮😮😮 i thought it was about creases in clothes but this theory is better.
Crawford's hatred of wire hangers stemmed from her parents forcing her to twist them into shape as a kid. they owned a dry cleaner's and if you ordered bundles of hangers in the 1900's they didn't come pre-formed.
Interesting notion, though Christina had her own guess as to Joan's drunken tirade in the book and subsequent interviews.
Maybe, but the incident is lifted directly from the book. And according to Christina, it wasn't the first or only time Crawford got pissed about the presence of wire hangers. She apparently just really, really, really fucking hated wire hangers.
Not gonna lie, I have never been able to watch this movie in its entirety. It hits way too close to home. Everyone who laughed at it clearly has absolutely no idea what it's like being raised by a narcissistic mother, or suffered any abuse in general. They have no idea just how lucky they are.
Believe it or not, I think Christina at one point actually said that Faye's performance was 'understated' when compared to how Joan actually was at times, especially during the "night raids" when the infamous wire hanger incident took place.
And some abusive parents, especially ones with bipolar, NPD or some other kind of illness can be exactly like how you saw in those scenes, if not worse. Here's some comments from another vid of the wire hanger scene:
"People call it over acting... I've seen it. This is life for some. Worse sometimes."
"Same, I've seen it, someone literally getting their head pushed into a wall because of a water filled bucket left outside the house."
"This is actually how my childhood was like. I was hit and berated by both my parents. Not to say they were completely evil, but I'm sure they didn't know how else to raise me growing up. My younger sister never had to endure the same treatment though. This clip seriously makes me cry as a grown woman just watching it, I begin to feel like a scared
little child again. Toxic/ dysfunctional relationships like this do exist unfortunately."
"Christina, get out of that bed!" I cringe whenever I watch this scene. Of course I realize, as Christina made clear, Hollywood took poetic license in the film adaptation ... but for some, the kind of rage displayed here was reality, not an exaggeration. Knowing it was coming, defenseless to stop it, and trying to hide under the blankets while they are being pulled off ... dragged back by the hair while trying to escape the pain of a beating with a leather belt, a metal hanger, the wood handle of the broom or whatever implement was within reach at the time ... while being told and called some of the meanest, most hateful and hurtful things ... and usually the infraction didn't warrant the punishment."
I didn't remember her saying the performance was understated, but I do remember her saying that Joan's proclivities were way more strange than anything in this movie. Or in any movie, from the sound of it. She said that her mother would get chased through the house naked into the wee hours of the night.
Faye nailed the tantrum of a narcissistic mother with depression/anxiety. I have been woken up from a dead sleep to do laundry and dishes while mine stood ten feet away screaming at me. At 3 am. When I was 10.
So yeah it is accurate. Maybe this is why people don't believe people like me when we tell our stories; the behavior seems so outrageous and ridiculous that is seems impossible.
Honestly, I don't find the "No wire hangers" scene funny, I find it pants shitting scary!!
I agree - It's so freaking uncomfortable when you watch the scene in its entirety
Hewy Toonmore It is uncomfortable to watch I agree with you.
He mentioned that his laughter was in sarcasm because even he was wondering why so many critics referred to the scene (among others) as "funny" . . . by accident or otherwise.
I think that many people have ONLY seen the 10 seconds or so where she's screaming about the coat hanger, and I can see why they'd find that part of it funny because of Dunaway's hamminess. But yeah if you watch the ENTIRE scene in full, it's freaking disturbing and messed up.
I’m sure Christina Crawford shit her pants when her adopted mother acted that way, too.
>new episode of Cinematic Excrement
OH YEAH
>it's about Mommy Dearest
OH NO
OH HELL YES
I read your comment in the Kool Aid man’s voice
I think I get the “Worst Movie of the Decade” monicker, if they marketed a real woman’s traumatizing abuse as a campy melodrama. If I were Christine I would have been pissed off enough to sue. That’s hella not okay.
Like even *IF* the wire hanger thing is unintentionally funny, it’s still unsettling as hell that this may have been going on. I think if it were me going through that, I would have gone medically insane.
I think that you don't know how is to live with a total unpredictable overreacting abusive drunk person, I don't think that she was overrating or acting like crazy, alcoholic, unpredictable and controlling people can be like that, one moment they are nice and kind, and the next they totally overreact throwing a temper tantrum and trying to victimise everyone around them, mostly people that have less power than them.
My own mom can and does blow up at the slightest provocation. And I do mean slightest. There were times when I was a teenager where we’d be talking and I’d accidentally say something with the wrong inflection in my voice and she would fly off the handle.
My mom has done every one of these things besides the attempted murder
I agree, my dad didn't do any drugs or alcohol when we were being raised but his behavior is a cut out of this movie. Maybe if you said something the wrong way... or ESPECIALLY if you answered back. If I ever heard one of my sisters answer back to him I would leave the room because I knew what was coming next. Dad was just as terrifying if not more terrifying than this "caricature" as this reviewer says.
It's one of the reasons why I never want to have kids, I'm just afraid I may inflict some trauma or damage on my child that would take years of recovery, because I haven't recovered. I never felt safe in my house with him walking around. I would hate hearing his footsteps near my room. Every time he traveled away I was at my happiest and I felt like I was on vacation. I hate talking about this... all I wanted to say is what you see in this film HAPPENS and if not worse to anyone around the world. You may think "oh she's overacting" "Oh this is soooo over the top" yes but...it's true.
I once pulled a Christina to my dad "I'm not one of your fans" scene when I was 16. I failed my english and math during midterm and I could've still pulled through. However his method... we were sitting on the couch and he (he's a very strong guy, big, intimidating) was basically calm then I saw the rage kick in, and it comes from out of the blue too- he starts punching the couch very near me, "DO YOU WANT ME TO BEAT YOU!? DO YOU WANT ME TO BEAT YOU!?" so then I clicked and I stopped crying and I said "then do it". Big mistake. He picked me up, gave me the biggest slap across my face my ear was ringing, and then gave me a really big punch right in my chest where I flew back to the ground. He felt really bad about that and wanted to apologize but he justified his actions by saying I started it. The abuse didn't stop but I somehow managed to steer clear and get less of it so it never got physical again. At 19 I moved out and and settled into a different country, very far from him. I miss my other family members. In the 9 years I've been away I only went back once for 2 months.
Trying to defend people abusing their children is, to me, kinda like defending slavery. If you do it you are either horrible or stupid or both.
Yeah just because something was normal at a certain time period doesn’t mean it was a good practice.
@@grizzly_manbanimation8436 Yeah. People would probably try to defend it today by saying that it was thought to be okay back then. To that I say: slavery was thought to be okay once. Witch burning was thought to be okay once. Locking Jews in ghettos was thought to be okay once. The fact that people thought the horrible things they did were okay does not make those things any less horrible.
@@1987MartinT exactly.
I would say both. Because there is no good or smart reason to defend slavery
Apparently, the wire hanger scene was not that completely unheard of at the time that it took place. My mother told me about a time when she had put an outfit on a wire hanger and her mother made her take all her clothes down and rehang them without wire hangers.
In fact, I remember a similar situation with me when I was a child and I had hanged an article of clothing on a wire hanger and I was made to take all of my clothes down, find every single wire hanger, throw them away and replace all my clothes. If memory serves it was believed that wire hangers would ruin clothes giving them a crease due to the weight of the clothing and gravity.
It's INSANE but it happened.
Also, metal wire hangers could rust, rubbing rust stains off onto clothes right about where everyone would not fail to notice them, and rust stains... aren't indelible, but require special stain treatment to say the least, if they are to have any hope of being washed out.
I always thought it was a reference to abortion.
Leileya Night How did the wire hanger even get there in the first place? If they had a maid, then Joan should've got at her instead of poor little Tina.
I always wondered why the little girl got blamed for the wire hanger. Blame the maid, or something, but how would the little girl attain a wire hanger anyway? Why would she want to?
@@jenneacoleman-cubero2365 Yes! That was so annoying.
While this movie may be true, watching Mommie Dearest is like watching a really bad and very long lasting car accident. It isn’t funny. It is only very unpleasant to watch. I don’t see how anyone came away from this film enjoying what they saw.
Okoboji It's enjoyable because it's so campy and over the top. (But at the same time, it IS pretty unpleasant to watch--I agree with that).
Because they're sadists? 🤷🏿♀️
Guys, just because abuse happened "back in the day", does not mean it makes the abuse any less horrid! Back then, you CAN beat your kids...but SHOULD you? There was also abuse against women, people of color and animals too in those days. Want to defend those too? I'm sorry for being an emotional snowflake, but this is like the precursor to the "Joe Jackson Argument" going on right now.
True. Btw, what's a Joe Jackson Argument?
Fermin Tenave Even before his death, people suddenly saw Joseph as this strict but good daddy who kept his kids off the streets and make Michael the iconic star he is today. That Michael, himself, "exaggerated" the abuse thanks to his sensitivity. YET, what they keep forgetting it that Joe would do extremely messed up things. Even for the time period.
Okay, I don't know much about the Jackson 5.
Fermin Tenava A lot of people don't.
so much for "good old days"
I honestly don't care how bad Joan Crawford's life was before she adopted her children. There is no excuse for punishing kids for your own perceived shortcomings in life.
Shirley Temple's mother did something similar w/ her daughter's b-day presents; Shirley never even opened a lot of them they were just sent to an orphanage. It sucks because some of those presents were bought by ppl who were hoping to make a good impression on the Temple family and went out of their way to buy extravagant gifts, and this was during the Depression.
I watched this movie a few years ago, & when that scene came on- while legit terrifying (how anyone could have found it funny is insane to me; I don't care how bad a movie it is, mislabling it as somehow comedic is a gross mistake), I was also thinking, "if you didn't f*cking want wire hangers used, *why* the hell are they in your house- a 6-yr old child isn't going out & buying them, so how did they end up there?"
That's the thing about abusers, ESPECIALLY alcoholics: nothing is ever their fault.
@@WobblesandBean... Exactly!!
A lot of people live a sheltered life. They don't know until that one guy or that one girl they know opens up. They can never empathize because they never experienced it or sympathize because they don't understand it. For the people who are abused, many of them do not acknowledge that they were. It seems like only society can judge if it is abuse. We are taught to look for other people who are abused, but how about ourselves? When do you know you are being abused by your parents, a spouse, a coworker, a friend? "Can my situation be called abuse?" they think to themselves, and many times they refuse to believe it is. We find other words. This person is toxic, lets move away from this person. And after gaining capital and such, they move as far away as possible and try to forget the past.
And its never the parents fault. If something goes wrong, its never their fault, its someone else's. This is just a form of scapegoating and not owning up to your mistakes. And the way they act when they are angry...its just like a spoiled brat at a supermarket complaining about not getting candy. They yell, they scream, they throw a tamper tantrum. Except way worse, because there is no way a child can check their mother by slapping her across the face and screaming "ARE YOU A WOMAN OR A CHILD? IF YOU ARE WOMAN, TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR NOT GETTING RID OF THE COAT HANGER AND CLEAN UP THE MESS YOU MADE! IF YOU ARE CHILD, YOU ARE GROUNDED! CLEAN UP THIS MESS AND GO TO YOUR ROOM! FATHER WILL BE SPEAKING WITH YOU ABOUT YOUR BEHAVIOR!"
THANK YOU!!!! I've been saying/ wondering that for years!
According to the book, Christina said that the dress in question had come back from either the laundry or the dry cleaner on a wire hanger, and Christina hadn't changed to a padded hanger as soon as the garment was returned to the closet.
To be honest the make up crew deserved an Oscar for this film. At least it would had been great after the hell Dunaway had them go through.
But but but...bad movies don't win Oscars...oh wait
WORST HEROES EVER
Too bad it had the misfortune of being released in the same year as "An American Werewolf In London." :P
Christmas Hake : Absolutely. There is no way to compete with that. Its an utter masterpiece.
Why? Faye didn't look like Joan at all, precisely, they made the worst Joan caricature ever
@@AutumnButterfly it's not!!!! Faye looks ridiculous and not even close to Joan!!!!
This movie in a nutshell is Christina saying “Jesus Christ” in that chilling voice of hers.
As someone who was emotionally abused by their own mother, I really don’t get the ‘comedy’ angle. At all. I had to skip through the scene with Joan beating little Christina with a hanger and screeching in her face because it reminded me wayyyy too much of the shit my own mom used to pull when I so much as got out of bed to pee at night when I was a kid. So thanks, Smeghead, for actually recognising that it’s not funny, it’s fucking disturbing.
Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Film is still finding good jobs in Hollywood, I see.
That knighthood opens a lot of doors!
Phillip Terry was a very good actor. See him in The Lost Weekend as Ray Milland's brother.
Honestly, Dunaways screaming in the wire hangers scene reminds me of Kathy Bates in "Misery" - out of context it might be funny, but in-story, it actually works and is scary. But outside of that, the acting really is a lot too melodramatic.
I really liked your review - you've done your research and really seem to think it all through before bringing out the video, which is especially important with such a dark subject matter.
From what I've seen, this film falls into an awkward grey area. It's way too over-the-top and melodramatic to be taken seriously, but it's too disturbing to watch as an unintentional comedy. I'm not sure what it is exactly.
It’s just plain uncomfortable. Dunaway’s weirdly sing-song read on ‘NOOOOOOOOO WIIIIIIRRE HANGERS EVERRRRRRRR!!!!’ is worth an awkward smile but it’s mitigated by the sight of a small child crying and cowering in terror of her own mother.
@@leow3696 To both of you, it is only "over the top" to outsiders. To those of us who suffered as Christina did, it's real. I wish the wire hangers scene had been overacted. Violent histrionics is normal in narcisstic mothers.
Your acting during the fake laughter bit was amazing. Most people would have stopped laughing and said how it's not at all funny but you kept going to the end.
That's the great thing about ol' Smeggie, when he commits to a joke, he fucking _commits._
I feel like Faye Dunaway was the only choice for Joan Crawford. Not only did they look incredibly alike, but their personalities seem quite similar. Honestly, I think she did a good job with the role because she could relate to the character.
I agree, for the most part she was excellently cast. Though I do still agree with the comments saying that the director could have pulled her back in some scenes, and modulated her performance throughout the movie. But overall she had the look, voice, and mannerisms down perfectly
I saw this in the theatres when I was 13 years old. The wire hangers scene almost caused a panic attack because my mother would routinely (whenever my father was not home) wake us up violently in the middle of the night, going from room to room (us childrens' rooms, that is) throwing anything and everything into the center of the floor. Every desk, bookshelf, and drawer (including lamps, photo frames, keepsakes, etc was emptied, often breaking things. She sometimes did this while we were at school, too. I came to believe that it was a susbstitute for physical violence against us personally, which she knew our father would never have tolerated. And for those worried about over-the-top acting... DON'T. Histrionics is just part of the behavior. It's horrible, causes life disfunctions, and splits families apart.
Cindy and Cathy had Al Steele as a father figure around, and it’s not that unusual for an abusive parent to favor one child over another.
This was NOT the worst movie of the 1980s by ANY stretch: in that decade we also got Nukie, Jaws: The Revenge, Leonard Part 6, The Garbage Pail Kids Movie, Going Bananas, Superman IV: The Quest For Peace...
Eh, Superman IV's a guilty pleasure for me. Yes, it's pretty campy and cheesy, but it's also entertaining!
Child abuse trumps them all
There’s a scene in the graphic novel ‘Maus’ where the author, Art Spiegelmann, visits his elderly father and stepmother and his father gets angry at his stepmother for hanging Art’s coat up with a wire hanger. And really, were the guys and gals at the Razzies a bunch of sociopaths? The abuse scenes in Mommie Dearest weren’t funny, they were fucking uncomfortable. Who the hell sits there watching a small child cower and cry as her mother screams abuse at, and even tries to fucking KILL her, and laughs?!
I am frankly horrified to hear Crawford's friends defend her child abuse.
Dude, if Dunaway thought THIS was gonna be her comeback, I wanna know what the hell she was thinking when she signed on for “Supergirl” (1984)!
Could it be she was thinking, "Forget about a comeback, I'll just take what I can get."
@@nylrob Also "What the hell, I gotta pay some bills."
After watching this review I’m honestly with The Cinema Snob. I disagree with Mommy Dearest winning worst picture. Honestly Tarzan the Ape man was much much worse movie. As for worse picture of the decade....once you see the winner for worse picture for 1983 and so on you might treat this one better.
I agree about Mommie Dearest not being the Worst Picture of the year, but my money goes to Endless Love on that one. At least Tarzan wasn't based on anything so highly regarded at the time
people who come forward with accusations of abuse often have much less to lose by doing so than the abusers in question. almost no one would publicly admit to being psychologically tortured the way christina was, considering all that she gained out of doing so was ridicule, denial, invalidation, and this supposedly shit film. also, the public not believing accusers is why so many don't initially come forward. but about this movie...i'm with the cinema snob on this one. yeah, it's overacted and melodramatic, but it's kind of supposed to be. the "wire hangers" scene scared the shit out of me when i first saw it, and i was under the impression that this movie was a black comedy from the way everyone talks about it. like, sure keep in the line about the wire hangers and then conveniently edit out christina screaming and crying in the background. honestly, it always reminds me of when i first saw fullmetal jacket for a film class, only to realize it wasn't the "comedy" everyone on youtube who makes compilations of r. lee ermey screaming insults would have you believe. anything can look over-dramatic or out of place when you take it out of context.
the fatimagic
They have something to gain in books sales, fame etc.
@@WhaleManMan No they do not. Many people just want to tell their story as a way to cope. Very few will go the mile to publicize their abuse and even then, they don't do for money, its again telling your story. It's like making a movie about your murder, because that is what abuse does to you. It murders a part of what you could have been and reduce you to nothing at the end. There are also some who fear turning into an abuser in the future because abuse is not something that leaves easily.
@@WhaleManMan I am genuinely glad that you are ignorant enough to make such a comment. Because knowing otherwise would mean that you suffered at the hands of one these monsters yourself, and that is something no child should have to go through. Personally, it would be too traumatizing for me to re-live all that shit enough to write a book about it, much less actually make it through an interview without having panic attacks. One does not invent scenes such as the wire hangers; that sort of crazymaking is beyond the imagine of normal people. For me, it was Tuesday. And Thursday or Friday could very well have been FAR WORSE. If you believe in a god, then just say "thank you" to them every day and count yourself fortunate. We victims never deserve the abuse these monsters inflict...which is kind of the point of it in the first place.
I watched you long enough to know your real laugh and sarcastic laugh
I thought she was going to go Super Saiyan when she got hold of that coat hanger.
She could beat Gokus ass with a wire hanger though!
Just be glad these filmmakers didn’t also make “What’s Love Got to do With it?”
Why did CBS agree to that?
IT'S JOAN CRAWFORD.
I'm wondering if Joan Crawford were bipolar. The garden and wire hanger scenes look like a manic episode.
@Domino She likely was and histrionic. My mom is histrionic and an alcoholic and she gets the same way . Trust me,it`s not as funny when you`re going through it as when you`re watching a movie about it.
I have bipolar disorder and hacking up rosebushes in the middle of the night definitely sounds like something I would do while manic, albeit a lot less spastically.
Watching this film, I KNOW she is
@@zombieedrea *hopes and prays zombiedrea doesn't have rosebushes*
Likely several things going on here, many of which can come under the umbrella of BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER.
if you want to hear old timey innuendo done right watch a Mae West movie.
- I think you're overacting, Ms Dunaway!
- And I think you're underacting, Mrs Scarwid!
“I should have known you’d know where to find the boys *AND* the booze!” 🍸 🥃
You cannot convince me that this is a worse movie than Tarzan the Ape Man or Endless Love.
Same here. Richard Harris in Tarzan the Ape Man makes Faye Dunaway look like Neil Breen (and he's pretty much the only saving grace of this movie).
Tarzan the Ape Man is so much shorter when you take out all the slow motion editing. It drags like a tortoise walking through wet cement while covered in molasses. And the dialogue is Much more cringe worthy e.i. Richard talking about his cannon or Bo calling him a bastard in every other scene.
It probably wouldn't even clock in at 90 minutes.
The only difference between Christina Crawford's birthday party and the birthday party for Damien from 'The Omen' is that the nanny didn't kill herself....she just though about it! 😱🤡
Ironically Joan Crawford once said that she thought Faye Dunaway would be perfect to play her in a movie.
Damn it, Sean! It's late, I have people over, and I have things to do in the morning!
(Watches video anyway)
Its a better time for him though
Yes, Christina's story certainly deserved better. Dunaway may have indeed brought everything on herself, but Frank Perry was indeed the wrong director, and the script was utterly botched, not to mention the editing. Someone like Brian de Palma would have been better suited to direct this film in 1981. It probably would have been better, though, if Hollywood had waited some time before trying to adapt the book, because directors like David Fincher or Danny Boyle would be the ideal candidates.
Also, I'm certainly glad for the American Horror Story spin-off series Feud, when it did the story about Joan's rivalry with Bette Davis. Jessica Lange gave a phenomenal performance that completely buries the memory of Dunaway's pantomime shtick.
I think there was a more ideal candidate at the time: Bob Fosse. He already made Lenny and was two years away from Star 80, both solid biopics that actually cover their subjects well
A comedy focused around child abuse...
Oh, like that's gonna win an Oscar award.
Sean, since you are doing this... sooner or later you will see Freddy Got Fingered... nothing... I mean nothing on gods green earth can prepare you for that film.
Part of me wants to think that Tom Green is some kind of a genius for trying to make a movie so uniquely awful that nothing like it has existed before or since in cinema.
On Tom Green’s earth, you mean.
Jake Voronkov yeah but was it worth it? Some things shouldn’t happen
Daddy would u like some sausage? Would make anyone go insane
Neal McBeal The Navy Seal #ICalledDibs : That’s the only moment in anything Tom Green has ever done that made me laugh. He is as comedically inept as Dane Cook, and dammit, that’s saying something.
Lusamine from Pokémon Sun/Moon was a better parent than Joan Crawford in this movie, and Lusamine neglected her children so she could make out with a space squid from another dimension.
If you go by the games, yeah she was a cunt.
If you go by the anime, the worst you could say is that she was clingy and neglectful at the same time.
Red Blade Renegade I’m going by the games, I stopped watching the anime when I realized Ash was going in developmental circles.
Oh okay. Yeah, Lusamine was such a cunt that I almost wanted to keep playing just to kick her ass. Unfortunately, I got bored with the story when it felt like my character was just a third wheel to the story.
Red Blade Renegade Yeah, I feel Sun/Moon would be a much more interesting game if we played as Lillie.
Either Gladion or Lillie would've been better.
Dunaway has said that she would hold her face at certain angles with certain types of lighting to get the Crawford look. The hair and makeup (eyebrows!) definitely do their part, but she goes on about how much personal research she did to get the right effect, as well. I saw her give an interesting Letterman interview about it. Can't deny she is eerily aesthetically perfect as Crawford, though. Gotta give it to the gorgeous jewelry, too.
Am I the only one who thinks the hair cutting scene is worse than the wire hanger scene?
No, I agree--but the wire hanger scene is a VERY close second.
Missed this series. Your commentary is always the best in these videos!
I sympathize with anyone who has ever experienced abuse.
The next Razzie "winner" is Inchon, a Korean War movie financed by a cult leader. Also, Lawrence Oliver plays General Douglas MacArthur because "Money, Dear Boy", which is what is he said when asked why he took the part.
EHH246 That should be fun.
Oriental Studios Here’s the whole movie, he’ll probably review from that
th-cam.com/video/EqpsPjLTzWo/w-d-xo.html
Always exciting to see movies made by cults.
Well if they can cast 20-somethings as high school kids on Power Rangers, why not cast a 60 year old as a 20-something?
Okay, so next of the Razzies dumpster fires. But, what does this movie have to scare him so mu-
*reads warning sign*
OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH BBBBBOOOOOOYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!! This is not gonna be a fun ride.
No more wire hangers. Now, BRING ME THE AXE
How is he gonna review this one? Pirate it or Stills
Rollercoaster Rider what is it?
Sorry, but Dunaway's performance is not too unbelievable, as I had a witch of a stepmom for a few years up until I was about six. To quote The Cinema Snob, this movie "Made the shit in my pants shit its pants" mostly because I've witnessed a slightly milder version of this abuse.
I am so, so sorry. You didn't deserve any of that, and it wasn't your fault. I sincerely hope your father has apologized and made things up to you.
Wobbles and Bean The night he dumped her ass.
@@MoteofLobross are you ok now
Very good review, looking forward to you trying to explain the Unification Church in the next video!
Next time on Cinematic Excrement, Lawrence Olivier wins a Razzie for Worst Actor.....
No, *really* .
Disaster Artist and Ed Wood were great films about the making of enjoyably bad films, so a movie about the making of Mommie Dearest would be a masterpiece.
But, who should play Faye Dunaway?
@@jbvader721 Rosamund pike looks a lot like her
1997residente She'd have to dye her hair.
Ed Wood took a ton of liberties with history.
There’s a memoir written by the women who played Carolann, and it is juicy. I’d love to see it as a miniseries.
I feel like this movie is due for a remake. In the hands of a good screenwriter, director and a good cast, it could be taken as serious as it should've been.
I also honestly don't think the acting is all that bad. Dunaway's overacting is too much, yes, and it does sound like it needed to be reeled in most of the time, but if the goal was to scare the shit out of me, mission fucking accomplished. Good lord.
You've been around such personalities before? Read the comments.... she didn't over act. She nailed it. I wish I couldn't say that.
Guess you and Brad Jones will just have to agree to disagree.
Brad’s a dickhole anyway, so...
TheHeroOfTomorrow How so?
Brad Who?
Daniel Terrazas The Cinema Snob
@@endlessnoise9173 Ahh, I've never actually checked out his videos. I'll need to check them out.
The part where she made Greg take off his shoes and then he asked what about the socks? She can handle the socks. Translation: She can knock his socks off herself😋
My uncle tried to force me to eat when I was a kid, but it was a plate of spaghetti. He went through this for three days until my grandmother came to pick me up and took me out to Burger King.
Dang, how could you turn down a plate of spaghetti? I friggin' LOVE that stuff!
@ I was a little kid and it looked like worms to me. It was irrational, but I didn't know that. I still don't eat spaghetti.
Sabrina Loizides-Merideth Well, you're missing out! But to each their own.
It's worth noting that critical memoirs by children of Bette Davis and Bing Crosby, whom you mentioned, were likewise disputed by their siblings and others.
My sisters and I were very aware that if told anyone about the abuse we suffered under our mother, NO ONE WOULD BELIEVE US. And so we didn't. Not even our father knew how bad it was.
23:08 Honestly, I can kinda see it. The movie had a good director (Frank Perry), a big star in the lead (Faye Dunaway), and was a period drama based on the life of a famous Hollywood starlet (Joan Crawford). Even the production value looks Oscar caliber. I can understand why Dunaway and the studio thought this movie was going to be an Oscar contender.
But like you said, the movie suffers from numerous problems that made Oscar talk delusional, including, the movie's source material was a controversial book that was meant to highlight the horrors of child abuse, the acting ranged from subdued to crazy, and the lead didn't know when enough was enough.
21:23 gives a whole level of cred to the saying: "Stranger than fiction!"
poor Faye Dunaway such a talented actress, almost like her career never fully recovered from this.
I got to say, those people who say 'the kid had it coming' should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. The fuck is wrong with them?
You’re not alone in disliking the film, Smeghead.
Christina Crawford herself did not like it either:
*”My mother didn't deserve that. [Faye Dunaway]’s performance was ludicrous. I didn't see any care for factual information. Now I've seen it, I'm sorry I did. Faye says that she is being haunted by my mother's ghost. After her performance, I can understand why.”*
You know you screwed up when even Christina Crawford who wrote a book about how horrible and abusive her mother was to her says that the film is TOO HARSH on Joan!
I find the book by Marlene Dietrich’s daughter to be the worst of the bunch. It’s twice as long as “Mommie Dearest” and just drips with venom and unrepentant hatred. Maria Riva methodically tore her mother apart on every single page. It sheer amount of vitriol in her book blows Christina Crawford out of the water.
As a daughter of a totally narcissistic mother, Joan Crawford sounds pretty textbook. And as far as siblings go often family members create a scape goat and a golden child and such. So it sounds pretty bad to me.
For people that had abusive parents, this movie is our Apocalypse Now. I'm just old enough to have seen some Joan Crawford films before Mommie Dearest came out. Joan freaked me out before the movie came out.
I find it ironic how Faye portrays Joan when a long time prior, Joan praised Faye.
You're a frigging genius... In case you weren't aware. You're smart, clever and funny as hell. Seriously, Bravo!
This movie is a camp classic! Not only should it be watched, it should be studied! Over the top performance and so many memorable quotes!
So, much like I found out Mommy Dearest was next, I went to Google to see who won Worse Picture the following year. Quite curious, since I never even heard of Inchon. Hopefully, you are continuing this idea of reviewing each years winner. I'm loving this so far. Thank you, Smeghead. Or as Kryton would pronounce it Smmmmmeeeeee Eeeeeeeeddddd. 😉😂
The story about Faye Dunaway's outrage on set reminds me of Jim Carry when he played Andy Kaufman on Man on the Moon
The only biopic possibly worse than this is the John Belushi hack job “Wired.”
I believe Christina herself said, after viewing the movie for the first time, "well...my mother didn't deserve THAT..."
You know you screwed up when even Christina Crawford who wrote a book about how horrible and abusive her mother was to her says that the film is TOO HARSH on Joan!
But..................reading Christina's book, it seemed the abuse she mentions in it was just as bad as the abuse portrayed in the film (even if the wire hangers scene apparently never actually happened).
The adoption was not only out of state, it was illegal.
I watched Son of Godzilla once and Godzilla is a better parent than Joan Crawford.
On the one hand, I get that people look at Faye Dunaway's acting as ridiculously over the top. On the other hand, anyway who has ever been abused as a child knows full well that some of the most violent outbursts come from the most trivial of perceived infractions. When I was around six years old I spilled some diet coke in my elder sister's room (she was 11 years older then me) and she responded by grabbing my hand and putting a lit candle out in it.
Abusers can turn on a dime from being loving and affectionate to being sadistic tormentors.
219 minutes!?!
Speaking of films released in 1981, what are your thoughts on Excalibur?
So is kylo ren's tantrums more subtle than dunaway?
It's not OK, period!!! Camp Christina!!!✊👧
Hi Mr Cinematic,
I enjoyed your thesis on this movie. You really hit the nail on the head in my opinion. I also read where some Hollywood stars witnessed Joan's abuse while at her home. Greg Bautzer, his real name, the attorney, wrote Christopher held his fork in his left hand but Joan wanted him to use his right hand. She knocked the fork out of his hand, her hand slipped and struck his face. The boy cried and Greg tried to console him. I am a big fan of Joan, but I read recently that she mentioned film actresses including herself never should have been mothers, because their careers came first.
Oh boy! It's not until recently that I read about people that were present when Joan inflicted her harsh treatments on her first two children.
So, Faye Dunaway refuses to talk about "Mommie Dearest" and calls it one of the worst moments of her life? Hmm. I wonder what she thinks of her role in "The Cougar Club"? That said, this movie made me a fan of Joan Crawford. Oh, and when I was about six months old, Ms. Crawford was visiting Erie, PA, and my mother had the chance to meet her. I was told Ms. Crawford held me, chucked me under the chin, complimented my mother, and was very kind and endearing to everyone there--even standing in the cold to sign autographs. Was she a horrible mother and vindictive biotch? I dunno. There are two sides to every story, and though we will never truly and fully know Joan's, the fact that Bette Freakin' Davis came to her defense speaks volumes.
P.s. I guess it doesn't help that Joan was raised in damn near abject poverty, was abandoned by her father, molested by her step-father, and ended up marrying men who treated her like her step-father did. Oh, and the one man she really had a connection with, died. God, I hope she found peace in the after-life.
"Don't Eff with me fellas" is one of my favorite parts of this movie and then you're reply to it made it even better!!!!
I wonder how the baby boy she returned fared I'm thinking he lucked out .
I always wonder about the wire hanger incident: if Joan was so firm and controlling, how did the wire hanger get in the closet in the first place? As with all real life people, I don’t believe the story is as black and white as the movie depicts or as defenders of Joan depict. I think Joan was going through a tumultuous time in her career when she was raising Christina (she was basically told by MGM Head Louis B Mayer that she was too old to be a movie star and she was desperate to be cast in the main role in the movie Mildred Pierce) and I don’t think she was ready to be a mother. I think Christina was free sprited and sassy and her mother couldn’t handle it and dealt with her stress in abusive ways. Her younger children had the fortune of having Joan as a mother when her career as an older woman was already cemented. She was satisfied with life and she had the emotional capacity to raise children. It was also well known that she was a “clean freak” which I think boils down to her having undiagnosed OCD which can explain her obsessive and abusive behaviors towards Christina.
Hannah Gs it was a hanger from the dry cleaners that had not been removed once the garment was brought home. Joan’s Alcoholism played a large part in her behavior towards her older children, though her upbringing had a lot to do with it as well where she was also the victim of child abuse. That all said, the reason it is so black and white is the simple fact THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO HIT A CHILD EVER.
"Good Old Days" .. yeah right....
Heaven's Gate was released 35 years too early. It would have found its audience on streaming services and it could have been released in its full fuck-this-is-long entirety, as the director intended.
#ReleaseTheCiminoCut etc
Glad to see someone else take the CineamaSnob approach to this film
Cinematic Excrement can you try speeding up this Razzie marathon? Like can't you try doing every episode every week or 2 instead of every month?! Cause it can take 2-3 years to review every Razzie winning film and it feels like a Dragonball Z marathon that goes nowhere.
Yeah it seems like a bad idea if he's only doing once a month.
Still can't get over John Waters' commentary track on the DVD where he keeps going. "Oh, that's not that bad" about the abuse scenes.