I've been shooting since 2002 and have owned Leicas since 2006. Over the years I've heard again and again how the camera doesn't matter, to shoot whatever you have, you don't need a great camera to make great pictures, etc. And while I agree with that, I have no ambitions to quit my job and become a professional photographer. It's always been a hobby that includes the love of the feel of a M camera. That gorgeous tacticle feel as you focus, fire the shutter and advance the film. Recently I was reading a thread where the thread starter asked about comparing one lens vs another and several people began the same song about how M cameras are overpriced, Leica glass is overpriced and so on. Then I saw a post for the first time explaining the enjoyment of shooting. I love time in my darkroom. I love printing. And I love making images I'm proud of. But I love shooting with a Leica. "The photo for me is important but is the least important aspect. The experience of handling the camera, shooting the camera, the feeling of flow and presence while focusing on the subiect and composing the shot, often in nature, I find more important. I find that a Leica adds to that whole experience and there lies the value to me. I often see posted that the camera is just a tool to produce a photo: this also completely misses the point and is only relevant if you merely value the the outcome of the activity and place little value in the activity itself ....."
I own a lot of camera's. I once read an article of what is the best camera for you (and me) when you own a lot of them. The answer was: the camera you use most is the best camera for you. And so this particular camera becomes your best friend. It's a mixture of spending time together and the emotions that pop up when one is blown away by the secrets of life that only a photo can reveal. The reason a particular camera becomes your best friend is something that is hard to explain. I think a camera chooses us instead of the other way around. It's like a stray dog that comes at your house and never goes away. And before you know it he's your best friend.
From July of 2017 to February of 2020, I always had my Leica M-A around my neck. I love, love, love my film photos from that time. There's nothing like it.
I bought a Leica M2 in May this year and I've been using it/wanting to use it everyday since. I photograph weddings and have always been a SLR user. However, since having my M2 it's been so influential on how my work looks and feels now, suddenly I can achieve an aesthetic and composition that I feel is how I view the world and the events I witness. The lack of a light meter has also been absolutely freeing and very rarely do I underexpose. I worried that the hype of a Leica was just hype but, mannnn, I'm going to own the camera for life now. Maybe I'll add a M6 or an MP or something later to the collection.
I believe in strong connection with your tools. Leicas are like that. To me as an artist it's important as hell to work with the tools that makes you feel like you feel. People who just say it's a box will never understand. It's like saying to an painter not to use their favorite brushes. The tool matters and the connection you have to it. It becomes an extension of yourself. Love the video. Beautiful imagery man. Thank you 🙏 subscribed!
Beautiful images! And 1000% agree with the feeling. I get that feeling with my mamiya 7. That being said I am about to add a M6 as a sidekick to my mamiya 7. Wondering which is your favourite/go to film stock for your M6 (or, what you used to make these images?)
Your images are great - so sharp and with beautiful color rendition. I don't have a Leica M6 yet (but I'm on the hunt!), but I do have a Leica M8 and it's my absolute favorite camera. I love the images it produces, and I can tell that you have a similar bond with your M6, it's a classic camera for a reason, and your images are a testament to that. Thanks for sharing.
Back in 2002, on a trip to Japan, I bought my 1st digital camera. A Canon PowerShot G2 4.0MP. It used to give me this same feeling. Very intuitive, easy menu, true color flip-out and twist LCD display monitor (a great new feature back in the day), the strong built quality, and finally the fantastic image quality compared to the other available cameras under the same bridge category. Likewise, soon after I started using it, I didn't use to think about it as a camera. It became an extension of my eye. I didn't get the same feeling with any other camera after that. It really opened my appetite to digital photography after so many years of using film cameras. Unfortunately, I gave it away after I upgraded.
I’ve shot an M6 everyday for the last 4 years, I feel the same way that you do. I will have that camera on me for the rest of my days, that is for certain.
I’ve used the xpro2 for 6 years and recently switched to a Leica M. The xpro is the closest thing in terms of ergonomic feel, especially when you pair it with the small F2 lenses. They both take amazing pictures and I don’t feel like I’m missing out on image quality when using a fujifilm. Unfortunately that is where the similarities end. The Leica rangefinder is unique and in its own class, hard to compare to anything else currently in the market. I’d still recommend a fujifilm to most since it is more versatile. That said, I do believe a Leica M gives a unique perspective that any young photographer who’s never used a rangefinder can benefit from, because its limitations forces you to understand Lens focusing, exposure, and composition better than any camera IMO.
Always interested in hearing about peoples thoughts on film stocks. I seem to use Kodak Color Plus 200 or Ilford HP5+ as my go to films. Loving your channel and looking forward to your next videos.
HP5 plus is my go to black and white film as well. Having a couple of go to options creates some sort of certainty but also excitement when I try something new. Thanks for the comment!
I recently did a video on the Leica M5 (shameless plug), and yes there is a sense that the Leica imbues the user with a special feeling that few other cameras can match. However, I also think that the more we value a camera, the more we value the work that comes out of it. It could monetary value, in your case it's the sentimentality. It's a tricky subject, because there is a romantic notion to the film Leica experience, but at the end of the day we have to remind ourselves that it's just a box with a lens. And I'm absolutely not saying you shouldn't be enjoying the experience; you wouldn't take photos and use a Leica if it wasn't pleasurable. Just some thoughts, coming from someone who also enjoys shooting with the system. Cool video :)
I agree! However on the point of it being a box, its a box with specific ergonomics that function differently for different people. Maybe it is past experiences with different tools and items that determine your preferences when it comes to operating these things. Nice work with the M5 video, the stills are sweet! Now I’m even more eager to finish my k1000 video!
The hype around these cameras has become a bit silly, admittedly. Back in 2005, the Leica M3 was as expensive or even more so than the M6, which made sense. Arguably, it’s a better-built camera and who needs a built-in light meter anyway? The rangefinder system and the Leica M with it became largely obsolete for the majority of the professional market when Nikon introduced the Nikon F in 1959 for half the price. It held on somewhat for journalists and a few well-known documentary and street photographers who apparently didn’t get the memo. The same goes for those old farts who still drive their uncomfortable air-cooled sports cars instead of going electric or those who still use messy physical paint to smear on a canvas rather than much more convenient touch screen options. It’s important to remember that you can only speak for yourself and do what you enjoy. There’s no fault in enjoying something that doesn’t necessarily make sense to others. The only thing that might be difficult to grasp in these discussions are the haters. You’ve clearly proven your point with those lovely pictures. I buy and sell cameras and have been doing it before Instagram was even a thing, but I will never part with my Leica. It’s not until you fiddle with other cameras again that you appreciate Leica fully.
dude, it's a camera, not a romantic partner. It's a tool, and any decently working, manual operating camera will do just fine. The point is, if you don't have the actual artistic skills in the first place, and don't even know how to manually use a camera to get what you want, then the camera isn't going to make you an artist. You'll just be a guy with an expensive camera
Sure, but beyond skill, once you've figured out the technical aspects, what comes after? Ultimately, sure, it's a tool, but the way it's interpreted by the creator/user leads to diverse experiences and defines a style. If you're just using something as it is technically intended you wouldn't be tapping into your own look and feel. That is the difference between an operator and a creative.
@@holy_grain not really, there's nothing beyond skill. Skill is something you practice for the rest of your life as an artist. It's not something you eventually attain in its entirety. Being an actual artist basically means you are never entirely content with your own work...and that's what drives you for the rest of your life. Most give up, and some go nuts. Ultimately, a camera has nothing to do with anything more than a paint brush. It's a way to get art onto a medium, that's all. You want to know how good an artist you are, then try creating quality art with the most basic/inexpensive camera you can find. Learn how to use it and let your brain do all the work
Same thing with a car. All cars do the same function but people like driving certain cars because of some type of feeling it gives them. I’m sure you wouldn’t understand based off your comment.
@@joeygmc07 of course I understand, always had cars. The thing is that objects can produce certain feelings in people, cars or cameras. However, when creating art (photography, painting, sculpture, ect..) your feelings should be on the abstract of what & how you want to communicate, not the tools used in the process. In the end, a proficient artist can use practically any decent camera to successfully communicate
Not every skier will join the olympics, not everybody who designs is an artist and not everybody with a camera is a photographer. It is a hobby for some people using cameras and using an enjoyable camera definitely adds up to the experience. Leica is still a camera, and it virtually does the same thing as every camera, what Leica is promising though is the experience. Hold one on your hand and you’ll understand.
You just described the exact same experience as the Minolta XE7, XD11, Canon F1, Pentax Spotmatic S2, K2, LX, Topcon RE Super, and the Nikon f3. If I were to list the top 10 photographers of the last half century only 1 used a Leica- and it wasn't even an M. It seems the M6 is the go to camera for the NYC Instagram street rats, the TH-camr How-to/Review Me Photogs with a PremiumBeats account and a SquareSpace sponsorship, and the random old school film photographer because he can't afford a M10.
ALL Leica Ms are about as practical as an employer holding onto the corpse of a dead employee, thus not practical at all; this is especially true of all Leica Ms before the M10; even more so with analog Ms like the M6 have a dismal top shutter-speed of 1/1000 second. Secondly, one can't use a M lens with a focal length longer than 50mm, as 75mm and longer have wider diameter lens barrels which foul the rangefinder viewfinder thus preventing you from seeing your subject in it's entirety. Thirdly, you can't use focal lengths wider than 35mm as wider than this makes manual focussing slower because your subject appears too small in the tiny viewfinder; you can't use focal lengths longer than 50mm because the diameter of those lenses is too large. Considering the above points how anyone can love rangefinder cameras is beyond rational explanation; I recommend that you lot would be better off using farts to take photos instead.
Arguably, the constraints imposed by rangefinder cameras necessitate artists to meticulously consider their framing and intentionally compose each shot. This demands a higher level of skill, as I discussed in a previous video. Adapting to a rangefinder may pose a challenge initially, but once mastered, it can yield highly gratifying results - although it may not be suitable for everyone's preferences.
@@holy_grain I use a traditional manual-focus SLR in the form of the Nikon FM2T; it has zero features and virtually no automation other than L.E.Ds in the viewfinder, it only has a manual exposure mode thus encourages the user to slow down and consider the subject before making a exposure. Plus their is no obstruction to the viewfinder irrespective of the lens being used. It has a top shutter-speed of 1/4000 second which minimises the need for a ND filter. There's a fine line between a camera that's about as practical as a employer holding onto the corpse of a dead employee; and a camera that is practical, and encourages creativity.
This all sounds like a subjective opinion-a valid one nevertheless- only delivered as an objective fact. If your sweet spot is where your Nikon’s at, go for it, enjoy. My personal take is, I enjoy exploring different tools and their potential effect on my creative output. It’s fun. Tools with inherent limitations promote learning. If that’s your jam, go for it. If it isn’t, don’t.
I like rangefinder cameras because they’re fun. And yes, an SLR is better than a rangefinder for almost any type of photography. There’s a reason SLRs took over once reliable and well-designed models like Nikon F and the first Pentax were introduced. The only concrete advantage of a rangefinder is the ability to use lens types that SLRs cannot e.g. Zeiss Sonnar. But sometimes a rangefinder is simply more fun
Leica camera and Voigtländer lenses. Really? How should Leica survive, when most people purchase Voigtländer lenses? Leica M6 with a Voigtländer lens is a joke. Better save money a little bit longer and earn Leica glass, than that kind of culture shock.
Lmfao. Leica shows Leica cameras with Voigtlander lenses on their social media stories all the time. Leica wouldn’t have open mounts like the M and L mount if they didn’t like it, and it makes their brand more approachable while still maintaining the prestige that their products have instead of them making a “cheap” line of lenses.
Ah another cork sniffer comment about lenses. Use what you can afford. Voigtländer glass is amazing and their quality is way up there. People who comment that lenses other than leica isn't good enough never produce any real work because they focus more on the cork sniffing instead of just shooting.
I've been shooting since 2002 and have owned Leicas since 2006. Over the years I've heard again and again how the camera doesn't matter, to shoot whatever you have, you don't need a great camera to make great pictures, etc. And while I agree with that, I have no ambitions to quit my job and become a professional photographer. It's always been a hobby that includes the love of the feel of a M camera. That gorgeous tacticle feel as you focus, fire the shutter and advance the film.
Recently I was reading a thread where the thread starter asked about comparing one lens vs another and several people began the same song about how M cameras are overpriced, Leica glass is overpriced and so on. Then I saw a post for the first time explaining the enjoyment of shooting. I love time in my darkroom. I love printing. And I love making images I'm proud of. But I love shooting with a Leica.
"The photo for me is important but is the least important aspect. The experience of handling the camera, shooting the camera, the feeling of flow and presence while focusing on the subiect and composing the shot, often in nature, I find more important. I find that a Leica adds to that whole experience and there lies the value to me. I often see posted that the camera is just a tool to produce a photo:
this also completely misses the point and is only relevant if you merely value the the outcome of the activity and place little value in the activity itself ....."
I own a lot of camera's. I once read an article of what is the best camera for you (and me) when you own a lot of them. The answer was: the camera you use most is the best camera for you. And so this particular camera becomes your best friend. It's a mixture of spending time together and the emotions that pop up when one is blown away by the secrets of life that only a photo can reveal. The reason a particular camera becomes your best friend is something that is hard to explain. I think a camera chooses us instead of the other way around. It's like a stray dog that comes at your house and never goes away. And before you know it he's your best friend.
From July of 2017 to February of 2020, I always had my Leica M-A around my neck. I love, love, love my film photos from that time. There's nothing like it.
I first bought a digital M camera but ultimately changed it to a film camera. It’s simple and a great little light box!
Very fruitful video..
I bought a Leica M2 in May this year and I've been using it/wanting to use it everyday since. I photograph weddings and have always been a SLR user. However, since having my M2 it's been so influential on how my work looks and feels now, suddenly I can achieve an aesthetic and composition that I feel is how I view the world and the events I witness. The lack of a light meter has also been absolutely freeing and very rarely do I underexpose. I worried that the hype of a Leica was just hype but, mannnn, I'm going to own the camera for life now. Maybe I'll add a M6 or an MP or something later to the collection.
great photos you shared.
I have a Leica M4-P (basically an M6 without a meter) and I feel the same way about it that you do with yours.
I believe in strong connection with your tools. Leicas are like that. To me as an artist it's important as hell to work with the tools that makes you feel like you feel.
People who just say it's a box will never understand. It's like saying to an painter not to use their favorite brushes. The tool matters and the connection you have to it. It becomes an extension of yourself.
Love the video. Beautiful imagery man. Thank you 🙏 subscribed!
Same vibe here. Switched to MP after a few years with an M4-P. I will say tho, I sometimes miss not having a light meter.
Beautiful images! And 1000% agree with the feeling. I get that feeling with my mamiya 7. That being said I am about to add a M6 as a sidekick to my mamiya 7. Wondering which is your favourite/go to film stock for your M6 (or, what you used to make these images?)
I feel this way about the M11
Your images are great - so sharp and with beautiful color rendition. I don't have a Leica M6 yet (but I'm on the hunt!), but I do have a Leica M8 and it's my absolute favorite camera. I love the images it produces, and I can tell that you have a similar bond with your M6, it's a classic camera for a reason, and your images are a testament to that. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you! I think this might be very common with most Leica M cameras, they don’t deviate much from the original design concept.
Bro! It was awesome!! keep going!! Maybe have some choice lens video in the future~~~ I will literally watch it.
Btw I have M6 too !
Really enjoy your work, maybe you can do a video about your process of developing and what film you use :)
Back in 2002, on a trip to Japan, I bought my 1st digital camera. A Canon PowerShot G2 4.0MP.
It used to give me this same feeling. Very intuitive, easy menu, true color flip-out and twist LCD display monitor (a great new feature back in the day), the strong built quality, and finally the fantastic image quality compared to the other available cameras under the same bridge category.
Likewise, soon after I started using it, I didn't use to think about it as a camera. It became an extension of my eye. I didn't get the same feeling with any other camera after that. It really opened my appetite to digital photography after so many years of using film cameras.
Unfortunately, I gave it away after I upgraded.
I’ve shot an M6 everyday for the last 4 years, I feel the same way that you do. I will have that camera on me for the rest of my days, that is for certain.
The fuji x-pro3 gives me that experience. I’ve never used a leica tho
I’ve used the xpro2 for 6 years and recently switched to a Leica M. The xpro is the closest thing in terms of ergonomic feel, especially when you pair it with the small F2 lenses. They both take amazing pictures and I don’t feel like I’m missing out on image quality when using a fujifilm. Unfortunately that is where the similarities end. The Leica rangefinder is unique and in its own class, hard to compare to anything else currently in the market. I’d still recommend a fujifilm to most since it is more versatile. That said, I do believe a Leica M gives a unique perspective that any young photographer who’s never used a rangefinder can benefit from, because its limitations forces you to understand Lens focusing, exposure, and composition better than any camera IMO.
I feel this way about my Minolta XD-S.
Always interested in hearing about peoples thoughts on film stocks. I seem to use Kodak Color Plus 200 or Ilford HP5+ as my go to films. Loving your channel and looking forward to your next videos.
HP5 plus is my go to black and white film as well. Having a couple of go to options creates some sort of certainty but also excitement when I try something new. Thanks for the comment!
I recently did a video on the Leica M5 (shameless plug), and yes there is a sense that the Leica imbues the user with a special feeling that few other cameras can match. However, I also think that the more we value a camera, the more we value the work that comes out of it. It could monetary value, in your case it's the sentimentality. It's a tricky subject, because there is a romantic notion to the film Leica experience, but at the end of the day we have to remind ourselves that it's just a box with a lens. And I'm absolutely not saying you shouldn't be enjoying the experience; you wouldn't take photos and use a Leica if it wasn't pleasurable. Just some thoughts, coming from someone who also enjoys shooting with the system. Cool video :)
I agree! However on the point of it being a box, its a box with specific ergonomics that function differently for different people. Maybe it is past experiences with different tools and items that determine your preferences when it comes to operating these things.
Nice work with the M5 video, the stills are sweet! Now I’m even more eager to finish my k1000 video!
@@holy_grain Thanks! Good point about the ergos, I do struggle to use a film SLR now that I'm a rangefinder snob 😂
May i know which version of the m6 you got ? i’m getting mine soon and confused about which version i should go with 😅
May I ask what brand is your shirt? Looks awesome
The hype around these cameras has become a bit silly, admittedly. Back in 2005, the Leica M3 was as expensive or even more so than the M6, which made sense. Arguably, it’s a better-built camera and who needs a built-in light meter anyway? The rangefinder system and the Leica M with it became largely obsolete for the majority of the professional market when Nikon introduced the Nikon F in 1959 for half the price. It held on somewhat for journalists and a few well-known documentary and street photographers who apparently didn’t get the memo. The same goes for those old farts who still drive their uncomfortable air-cooled sports cars instead of going electric or those who still use messy physical paint to smear on a canvas rather than much more convenient touch screen options.
It’s important to remember that you can only speak for yourself and do what you enjoy. There’s no fault in enjoying something that doesn’t necessarily make sense to others. The only thing that might be difficult to grasp in these discussions are the haters. You’ve clearly proven your point with those lovely pictures.
I buy and sell cameras and have been doing it before Instagram was even a thing, but I will never part with my Leica. It’s not until you fiddle with other cameras again that you appreciate Leica fully.
Dude I want one I just cant afford one! but resonate with your romanticising language about it
Your father should gift you this camera without thinking 😂
dude, it's a camera, not a romantic partner. It's a tool, and any decently working, manual operating camera will do just fine. The point is, if you don't have the actual artistic skills in the first place, and don't even know how to manually use a camera to get what you want, then the camera isn't going to make you an artist. You'll just be a guy with an expensive camera
Sure, but beyond skill, once you've figured out the technical aspects, what comes after?
Ultimately, sure, it's a tool, but the way it's interpreted by the creator/user leads to diverse experiences and defines a style. If you're just using something as it is technically intended you wouldn't be tapping into your own look and feel. That is the difference between an operator and a creative.
@@holy_grain not really, there's nothing beyond skill. Skill is something you practice for the rest of your life as an artist. It's not something you eventually attain in its entirety. Being an actual artist basically means you are never entirely content with your own work...and that's what drives you for the rest of your life. Most give up, and some go nuts.
Ultimately, a camera has nothing to do with anything more than a paint brush. It's a way to get art onto a medium, that's all. You want to know how good an artist you are, then try creating quality art with the most basic/inexpensive camera you can find. Learn how to use it and let your brain do all the work
Same thing with a car. All cars do the same function but people like driving certain cars because of some type of feeling it gives them. I’m sure you wouldn’t understand based off your comment.
@@joeygmc07 of course I understand, always had cars. The thing is that objects can produce certain feelings in people, cars or cameras. However, when creating art (photography, painting, sculpture, ect..) your feelings should be on the abstract of what & how you want to communicate, not the tools used in the process. In the end, a proficient artist can use practically any decent camera to successfully communicate
Not every skier will join the olympics, not everybody who designs is an artist and not everybody with a camera is a photographer. It is a hobby for some people using cameras and using an enjoyable camera definitely adds up to the experience. Leica is still a camera, and it virtually does the same thing as every camera, what Leica is promising though is the experience. Hold one on your hand and you’ll understand.
You just described the exact same experience as the Minolta XE7, XD11, Canon F1, Pentax Spotmatic S2, K2, LX, Topcon RE Super, and the Nikon f3. If I were to list the top 10 photographers of the last half century only 1 used a Leica- and it wasn't even an M. It seems the M6 is the go to camera for the NYC Instagram street rats, the TH-camr How-to/Review Me Photogs with a PremiumBeats account and a SquareSpace sponsorship, and the random old school film photographer because he can't afford a M10.
*an M10
Its just a box. Its all in the lens and the roll film
You don’t feel like the ergonomics, view finders, and other elements of the camera body come into play?
@@holy_grain yes. Except the quality of the coupling
ALL Leica Ms are about as practical as an employer holding onto the corpse of a dead employee, thus not practical at all; this is especially true of all Leica Ms before the M10; even more so with analog Ms like the M6 have a dismal top shutter-speed of 1/1000 second. Secondly, one can't use a M lens with a focal length longer than 50mm, as 75mm and longer have wider diameter lens barrels which foul the rangefinder viewfinder thus preventing you from seeing your subject in it's entirety. Thirdly, you can't use focal lengths wider than 35mm as wider than this makes manual focussing slower because your subject appears too small in the tiny viewfinder; you can't use focal lengths longer than 50mm because the diameter of those lenses is too large. Considering the above points how anyone can love rangefinder cameras is beyond rational explanation; I recommend that you lot would be better off using farts to take photos instead.
Arguably, the constraints imposed by rangefinder cameras necessitate artists to meticulously consider their framing and intentionally compose each shot. This demands a higher level of skill, as I discussed in a previous video. Adapting to a rangefinder may pose a challenge initially, but once mastered, it can yield highly gratifying results - although it may not be suitable for everyone's preferences.
@@holy_grain I use a traditional manual-focus SLR in the form of the Nikon FM2T; it has zero features and virtually no automation other than L.E.Ds in the viewfinder, it only has a manual exposure mode thus encourages the user to slow down and consider the subject before making a exposure. Plus their is no obstruction to the viewfinder irrespective of the lens being used. It has a top shutter-speed of 1/4000 second which minimises the need for a ND filter. There's a fine line between a camera that's about as practical as a employer holding onto the corpse of a dead employee; and a camera that is practical, and encourages creativity.
This all sounds like a subjective opinion-a valid one nevertheless- only delivered as an objective fact. If your sweet spot is where your Nikon’s at, go for it, enjoy. My personal take is, I enjoy exploring different tools and their potential effect on my creative output. It’s fun. Tools with inherent limitations promote learning. If that’s your jam, go for it. If it isn’t, don’t.
I like rangefinder cameras because they’re fun.
And yes, an SLR is better than a rangefinder for almost any type of photography. There’s a reason SLRs took over once reliable and well-designed models like Nikon F and the first Pentax were introduced. The only concrete advantage of a rangefinder is the ability to use lens types that SLRs cannot e.g. Zeiss Sonnar.
But sometimes a rangefinder is simply more fun
Leica camera and Voigtländer lenses. Really?
How should Leica survive, when most people purchase Voigtländer lenses?
Leica M6 with a Voigtländer lens is a joke.
Better save money a little bit longer and earn Leica glass, than that kind of culture shock.
Lmfao. Leica shows Leica cameras with Voigtlander lenses on their social media stories all the time. Leica wouldn’t have open mounts like the M and L mount if they didn’t like it, and it makes their brand more approachable while still maintaining the prestige that their products have instead of them making a “cheap” line of lenses.
But they fit Leica glove 😂
stupid comment. on so many levels
Also, for Film the Voigtländer lenses are quite good! (Digital, not so much.) That said, my 35mm Summicron will be on my M forever.
Ah another cork sniffer comment about lenses. Use what you can afford. Voigtländer glass is amazing and their quality is way up there.
People who comment that lenses other than leica isn't good enough never produce any real work because they focus more on the cork sniffing instead of just shooting.