Preamp is the heart of audio system which determines the sound signature ! I went through 37 Preamps then finally settled on two ! Love the dynamic, impactfull preamp which maintaine the integrity of music when music get busy and complex !
Completely agree. In time I realized this myself and came to the same conclusion, the preamp is the heart of any system and not enough people realize that. Game changer for everything from tone to dynamics and resolution.
@@sean_heisler In this point of my life. Accuracy isn't my maim design goal anymore. Accurate enough is accurate enough. After a certainly point, it is all about what sound good to our ears.
They are pretty versatile Joseph. They are not super hard to drive, but they do need quality electronics to drive them - thankfully Angela-Gilbert can provide those for me 😁
Love this discussion! About to build a version of the RCA 12AU7 preamp, and having an adjustable B+ voltage is a great idea. And I’m curious which version of Fanfare you were listening to. Would be nice to reference the same piece here! Thank you for this!!!
I actually use my Dac built in digital pre-amp and I believe it does a very good job and I am not in urge to really get another obstacle in the signal path as a pre. Even less if it colors the sound?! I believe the speaker/room stand for the actual coloration of the system?! The question arises - pre or no pre...
In terms of sound coloration and signature, this is very likely correct. You could throw in phono preamps as well if we are talking analog reproduction. But it terms of objective speaker performance (getting those drivers to move and perform their best), power amp to speaker matching is still the most critical step. So I suppose it depends on your point of view and where the deficiency in the system lies. Thanks for the video.
Can't argue with any of that... Obviously it would be illogical to match a 5 WPC tube amp with a pair of 83 dB speakers and expect great musical results. But most people at least have a general understanding of that concept. What is not as clearly understood is how to achieve your own "preferred voice". Most speakers fall in to the category of not being that hard to drive, which means that in most cases matching the voice of the preamp to the speaker is a pretty important consideration, and one that many would not even consider. We are simply recommending that people consider it.
@@georgetaylor3107 I agree that matching voices is very important and I appreciate that it's being discussed here in depth. However in referring to power amp matching, you are referring to an obvious mismatch that I agree a lot of people understand. There are also more subtle issues to consider as well. For example, if your system has bass that is undefined/under controlled, it may require an amp that operates at a lower output impedance (higher damping factor). This change may also have an effect on how the midrange is reproduced or perceived. Conversely, if damping is excessively high, the amp *may* be employing unnecessarily high levels of negative feedback which can lead to phase and transient response issues. These could be inadvertently attributed to an undesirable “character” when it's something that falls more along the lines of something that needs to be “fixed” rather than “tuned” (to steal Angela-Gilberts phrasing.)
@@rickyblair2375 Right now, I am making the C316 with adjustable B+ voltage. It is not on the web site yet. I am in the process of making the first production unit.
What do you think the ideal volume settings are between the amp and preamp? Both of mine have volume controls. I also have a DAC before both of those as well and that also has a volume control. Just curious as to your thoughts as to where all these levels should be set for optimization? Thanks!
If they are mechanical volume control, best part for them is between 9 O'clock to 1 O'clock. Set the DAC at the highest possible but not too high to cause the preamp volume control to be too low. As for the power amp, setting at -10db to -15db of gain is ideal. Keep in mind this is just a general idea. It may not be suitable for all applications. They are only a starting points.
I seem to like less efficient bookshelf speakers that are fed 60 or 70% of the (hybrid, mine) amps power. Those speakers really come to life in my experience. Why have all that power when you only use 30% of it?
Totally agree. A little bit more than necessary is head room. Too much is not just overkill or waste. It will actually harm the sound. I will be discussing this topic in the future.
George said it "I can't be trusted" Another memorable moment "I hope to find"...yikes George leading the witnesses including himself before leaving for yum cha...yikes
@@donwest5387 Not blame you having trouble to understand. We are tuning for personal sound. We are not fixing anything nor trying to improve anything on an absolute term. It may be an abstract concept to some.
Preamp is the heart of audio system which determines the sound signature ! I went through 37 Preamps then finally settled on two ! Love the dynamic, impactfull preamp which maintaine the integrity of music when music get busy and complex !
Agree. I am continuing to design more preamps with different sound. There is not one size fits all if we want the best to suit our personal taste.
Completely agree. In time I realized this myself and came to the same conclusion, the preamp is the heart of any system and not enough people realize that. Game changer for everything from tone to dynamics and resolution.
@@sean_heisler In this point of my life. Accuracy isn't my maim design goal anymore. Accurate enough is accurate enough. After a certainly point, it is all about what sound good to our ears.
I really like those Fyne speakers =)
They are pretty versatile Joseph. They are not super hard to drive, but they do need quality electronics to drive them - thankfully Angela-Gilbert can provide those for me 😁
Love this discussion! About to build a version of the RCA 12AU7 preamp, and having an adjustable B+ voltage is a great idea. And I’m curious which version of Fanfare you were listening to. Would be nice to reference the same piece here! Thank you for this!!!
I actually use my Dac built in digital pre-amp and I believe it does a very good job and I am not in urge to really get another obstacle in the signal path as a pre. Even less if it colors the sound?! I believe the speaker/room stand for the actual coloration of the system?! The question arises - pre or no pre...
@@martinlindberg1983 It I'd all about personal taste. Eating a steak or hotdog, sauce or no sauce. Then what kind of sauce.
In terms of sound coloration and signature, this is very likely correct. You could throw in phono preamps as well if we are talking analog reproduction. But it terms of objective speaker performance (getting those drivers to move and perform their best), power amp to speaker matching is still the most critical step. So I suppose it depends on your point of view and where the deficiency in the system lies. Thanks for the video.
@@terrywho22 Agree. We are not "fixing" anything. We are "tuning" to the sound we are looking for. What best performance is a very personal thing.
Can't argue with any of that... Obviously it would be illogical to match a 5 WPC tube amp with a pair of 83 dB speakers and expect great musical results. But most people at least have a general understanding of that concept. What is not as clearly understood is how to achieve your own "preferred voice". Most speakers fall in to the category of not being that hard to drive, which means that in most cases matching the voice of the preamp to the speaker is a pretty important consideration, and one that many would not even consider. We are simply recommending that people consider it.
@@georgetaylor3107 I agree that matching voices is very important and I appreciate that it's being discussed here in depth. However in referring to power amp matching, you are referring to an obvious mismatch that I agree a lot of people understand. There are also more subtle issues to consider as well. For example, if your system has bass that is undefined/under controlled, it may require an amp that operates at a lower output impedance (higher damping factor). This change may also have an effect on how the midrange is reproduced or perceived. Conversely, if damping is excessively high, the amp *may* be employing unnecessarily high levels of negative feedback which can lead to phase and transient response issues. These could be inadvertently attributed to an undesirable “character” when it's something that falls more along the lines of something that needs to be “fixed” rather than “tuned” (to steal Angela-Gilberts phrasing.)
@@terrywho22I think AGY has a dampening factor adjuster as well. I think George/Entracte did a video on it.
@@jasonwebb6484 Just watched that video after reading your comment. Very interesting!
What preamps are available to buy that has adjustable voltage?
@@rickyblair2375 Right now, I am making the C316 with adjustable B+ voltage. It is not on the web site yet. I am in the process of making the first production unit.
Preamp is crucial because it’s output is amplified and it operates on low level signal.
@@Coneman3 The power amp amplifies all the signal and noise from the preamp.
The circus is back in town!
@@Coneman3 Never left the tent. We only need to walk back on the stage. 🤩😝
What do you think the ideal volume settings are between the amp and preamp? Both of mine have volume controls. I also have a DAC before both of those as well and that also has a volume control. Just curious as to your thoughts as to where all these levels should be set for optimization? Thanks!
If they are mechanical volume control, best part for them is between 9 O'clock to 1 O'clock. Set the DAC at the highest possible but not too high to cause the preamp volume control to be too low. As for the power amp, setting at -10db to -15db of gain is ideal.
Keep in mind this is just a general idea. It may not be suitable for all applications. They are only a starting points.
@@angela-gilbert Thanks so much!
I like that analogy, Personally, brilliant way of explaining things we hear. 🫡
I seem to like less efficient bookshelf speakers that are fed 60 or 70% of the (hybrid, mine) amps power. Those speakers really come to life in my experience. Why have all that power when you only use 30% of it?
Totally agree. A little bit more than necessary is head room. Too much is not just overkill or waste. It will actually harm the sound. I will be discussing this topic in the future.
George said it "I can't be trusted" Another memorable moment "I hope to find"...yikes George leading the witnesses including himself before leaving for yum cha...yikes
?
@@donwest5387 Not blame you having trouble to understand. We are tuning for personal sound. We are not fixing anything nor trying to improve anything on an absolute term. It may be an abstract concept to some.
Artist- Mad Season
Song- Artificial Red