Should Star Trek challenge or comfort us? Yes to both. I'm a retired network engineer and administrator. I watched Dr. Who growing up in Scotland but when we moved to Seattle in 1970 I discovered ST:TOS almost immediately. The one local independent (i.e. non network affiliate) station ran it on Saturday and Sunday nights. I mention that just to say that I heard from countless people in the I.T. fields over the 40 years I was actively involved in it that ST was one of the main reasons that they were inspired to study the fields that they did.
Hey! I come from an IT family too, and we're all Trek fans. Also shoutout to Seattle!! I don't know if you're still here, but I'm a fellow Seattleite! So shoutout! ☺️
Is it too much to ask for both? That's what i love about Star Trek during the TNG-ENT era. If i want to be challenged, i watch DS9. My comfort Trek is Voyager. Even if i recognise that it's the most wildly inconsistent Trek of all in terms of writing. But that's also a problem with TNG during the early days, and also towards the end. I have different Trek favorites i watch in different moods. And that's good. I wouldn't have it any other way.
And somehow monopolising space in Quark's. I guess with the civilians still off the station they had room. Kinda like the (sadly now closed) pub which hosted Magic the Gathering Wednesdays, they had a giant round table which was great for multiplayer games. But I could tell even back then they must've been desperate for patronage.
I LOVE their bro-mance,it's so good and shows the down time the personnel enjoy on DS9. I served in the navy 7 yrs and the army 7yrs and Strek Trek is beloved in both branches of service,mainly TNG tho. SORRY folks,just going by what i saw. LOL. When an episode was on,the day room was-QUIET,no one said &&&& !!! LOL. Until after the episode ended,then there was discussion on that episode. Star Wars is also beloved by the military.
I think it would have been difficult to examine Picard and Guinan's relationship since so much of it is offscreen; we are told about it rather than see it very often. PS. 11:28 I can't believe one of my comments made the video!! Thanks for featuring me!
This, 100%. It's a little frustrating when a show TELLS you that two characters are BFFs, so you pretty much just have to take them at their word, but they don't SHOW you (and in all fairness, they eventually do with Guinan and Picard more or less,) versus something like Geordi and Data where you actually see them go from strangers to friends, in a way that the writers didn't even plan for. I love Picard and Guinan's relationship overall, but I'm so glad you pointed this out, because I was thinking the exact same thing.
Flip phones, too...but cell phones in general were inspired by Star Trek. But yes, there is a reason the first flip phone brought to mass market was called the Star-Tac.
OK, I'll admit I am a _Galaxy Quest_ fan. I love the fact that the fan protagonist actually does save the world. Having been a Star Trek fan since the time I bought a little TV to take with me to college so I wouldn't miss the broadcasting of the original series -- Fans are good people. They really are.
I can explain Guinan bringing up Picard going into the Nexus: Time doesn't exist there, so everyone in the Nexus at any point in time are all there at the same time. Since Guinan had been in the Nexus and Picard does go into the Nexus, she knew he'd be going in - since they were there together already, at least from her point of reference.
And her perceptions had already been established in the show as not being limited to a linear three-dimensional existence like ours are. She can sense when time has gone kerflooey
Steve thought he was getting the good joke on the Men In Tights x Lower Decks bit, but I was having the same realization about him as he was working through his lol It's OK to not like silly slapstick Steve. The other part you're missing is that Cary Elwes is a beautiful, wonderful man, and that makes up for a lot. For those of us of that persuasion, at least.
It really amazes me that Lower Decks interleaves stories that are just one physical gag after another with stories that are deeply emotional, sometimes in the same episode, and lands them more often than not.
It should _always_ challenge us. "You just don't get it, do you, Jean-Luc? _The trial never ends._ We wanted to see if you had the ability to expand your mind and your horizons. And for one brief moment, you did." "When I realized the paradox." "Exactly. For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you had never considered. That is the exploration that awaits you. Not mapping stars and studying nebulae, but charting the unknown possibilities of existence." "What is it that you're trying to tell me?" "You'll find out someday. In any case ... I'll be watching. And if you're very lucky, I'll drop by to say hello from time to time. See you … out there.…"
Don't make a sad face. I haven't seen Lower Decks yet but Men In Tights is amazing comedy and despite the fact that Steve is a smart guy and an excellent creator, he is very wrong about it.
@@renatocorvaro6924 Mel Brooks does a lot of old style humour because he was a vaudevillian. It's not for everyone, but his movies always get a laugh from me.
The only thing I recall about Prince of Thieves is that Robin Hood ends up at Hadrian’s Wall after landing at Dover, before heading back to Nottingham, a rather silly detour.
To be fair, the section of hadrian's wall used does look fairly mid-kentish; if you don't know better, it can pass relatively well and is by far the least glaring of location choices I've seen in films of that time, especially for a film not set in the united states.
Hey hey! Thanks for calling out my comment! Yeah, it was more of a spitballing thing, but yeah, you'd have to change up the whole script to get it to happen. But, you gotta admit, Kirk dying on THAT bridge would be way better than him dying under that other bridge.
It would be pretty easy to fill in; simply have the Enterprise fend off the Romulan attack on Soren's station. Warbird hits some critical power junction, or maybe they hack them, Data tech-techs a solution by rerouting power through the battle bridge, so we see characters in the physical set hotwiring shit, or contrive that Riker's in the engineering section and he grabs some officers and overrides command that way, letting Riker save the ship an hour before he crashes it. OR, you could book end it! Say the Enterprise B has a battle bridge and THAT'S where Kirk is when it explodes, and the audience can infer this is standard starfleet design. And if anyone says "We've never seen the Excelsiors with a battle bridge", fuk em, the Excelsior is an off-screen ship. It's not a hard set up that would require TOO much change in order to get it to function, honestly getting Kirk ON the BB would be the harder part.
@@dataportdoll Absolutely! And auxiliary bridges have been part of starship design since the Original Series, as anyone with the Enterprise deck plans that came with FASA's Star Trek: The Roleplaying Game knows. ;)
The costumes are cringe, the script is cringe, Kevin Costner is cringe, but Alan Rickman and Morgan Freeman make it worth at least one watch. Bonus, you get to see the famous tree at Hadrian's Wall that was recently cut down by a vandal.
@@TheWoodler My sister and I *still* quote over the top Alan Rickman lines from that movie at each other! That man could chew up the scenery as an enthralling villain like nobody else.
35:08 in addition to “only Spock dies” vs “everyone (including Spock) dies” being a logical choice, it’s at least implied (maybe stated outright by McCoy? It’s been a while) that nobody else aboard the Enterprise could survive long enough to complete the warp core repair/restart. Or maybe nobody else both has the knowledge to do it and could survive long enough to do it. If that’s the case, it’s not just one person vs everyone, it’s very specifically _Spock_ or everyone.
I would say that Star Trek is equal parts challenging and comforting. True, the episodes themselves VERY often focus on challenging our morals and our current understanding of the world - but the overall message is extremely comforting, and it's something that shows up time and time again throughout the franchise, even in the darkest of episodes and seasons: No matter how bad things get, no matter how challenging the current situation may be, we CAN be better - and, over time, we WILL be better. We may skirt the horrors of full Armageddon - but a brighter future is always waiting for us to step up and accept it. It's a deeply comforting thought, especially in troubled times.
I would agree, and point to the fact that TOS was originally conceived of as a "Wagon Train to the Stars" -- Wagon Train itself being the title of a (then) very popular and well-known Western TV series (1957-1965). The show was always meant to a mix of the new and familiar, and I think the best Star Trek stories have taken advantage of that fact. Like... the best way to challenge someone -- if you want them to be receptive to what you're gonna be saying, at least -- is to make them comfortable first.
Oh hey, I picked-up on the fact that Kirk was doing it as a mission of mourning and mercy in my very first viewing! (Preen, preen.) I think watching with subtitles helps get little important bits of dialogue like that stuck in my brain though. I loved that he went to all that trouble just to honour the death rites of his best friend. He doesn't care that it's illegal, could blow up his whole career, or even cause an incident with the Klingons. None of that matters anymore, because Spock is DEAD!! A more modern film might've over-sold how little the rest of his life mattered to him, in those moments, with a montage of Kirk moodily drinking first. Or flying a shuttle recklessly. But they just left that little plot detail there, to be picked-up whenever the viewer's ready. And I respect that.
At this point in my life (68 Y/O), ST-TOS simply *comforts* me! Fun fact: my first glimpse of ST-TOS was the original broadcast of "The Trouble with Tribbles" on Dec 29, 1967! *What* a 'first impression'!
That episode will always be important to me and my siblings, because my oldest brother (we are all ancient like mimeograph) managed to get a verified Tribble used in the episode. (Yes, it could have been a scam. But we choose to believe. It's not like we're selling it.)
Recently I heard an interview with the actual science advisor for the Star Trek franchise, Erin MacDonald. Sometimes she has to tell the writers that they are too far off from something that can be "scientific." Often there is some leeway, but sometimes things don't make it into scripts.
On the Kobayashi Maru part, given the context of Star Trek III where Spock IS actually saved and brought back to life, and by the end of IV is back to his old self, one could argue that there 'was' a way out of that 'no win scenario.' It took an extra movie or two to fully get there, granted. Then again, David dies in Star Trek 3 so I guess not afterall, but was a fun thought there for a second.
On the topic of current science and tech often being based on ideas from Star Trek, I'm not gonna lie, when my mum and I got our first smartphones and started checking out everything they can do, we looked at each other and said "We have tricorders!"
Ten years ago, I very vaguely, distantly heard of Steve Shives as a guy who just blocked everyone online, no questions asked. No fun allowed. A few (many) changes in my mental diet later, imagine my surprise to find Steve Shives just sitting here, relaxing as he talked about a subject of mutual passion: Star Trek. I don't know, I think he'd be a cool uncle.
Not all things should challenge us, but I think Star Trek should. It should push limits, explore concepts, contest popular ideas. But these challenges can be comforting as well. In fact, many episodes show characters showing discomfort when they are prevented from challenging ideas. And in many, characters find comfort as a result of challenging ideas, even when they don't come to a definitive answer. DS9 was an entire setting with multiple cultures (sometimes with conflicting ideals) coexisting, and many episodes focused on issues of personal identity, cultural conflicts, found family, belief, and in the case of Quark and Rom, accepting change to the culture they grew up with.
Re: the Kobayashi Maru, it’s a little more complicated than that. The movie agrees with Kirk that it doesn’t believe in the no-win scenario. What it denies is that you can always win without sacrifice. This is made explicit by Spock: “I never took the Kobayashi Maru test, until now. What do you think of my solution?” So Spock almost does what the commenter said, but not quite. He disregards the dichotomy of choosing the number of dead and invents a solution that saves everyone but himself. And interestingly, I think this is a lesson Kirk had already learned. He lost people while commanding the Enterprise. Sure, he saved most of them (and always saved all the main characters he - and we - cared about the most). But he didn’t save everyone all the time. So he hadn’t always “cheated death” completely, as he claims when talking to David. But I think that being at a desk job for years and also coming through the five year mission with all his closest ship mates surviving obscured that lesson. He had to learn it again, more painfully, in TWOK, and then learn it yet again in Search for Spock when he has to sacrifice the Enterprise when faced with another seemingly “no-win” scenario.
The term "warp drive" existed before Star Trek OR Alcubierre's warp drive. It's called a "warp drive" because it involves the warping of spacetime, and it's been a concept in both science fiction and actual science since, afaik, the 40s and 50s.
SO with you on The Last Jedi. It was the first time I was actually surprised by anything in Star Wars since Empire, and it took the series forward.... until whatever Rise of Skywalker was happened.
Trek should do *both.* it should challenge us to examine ourselves and our society when harmful norms we face everyday are juxtaposed with the characters' efforts to preserve the gains and growth society has made since the 2100s and not slip back into our position of struggle. It should also comfort us by showing us that *yes we can* have it all, *yes we can* reach for the stars and make new friends in the unknown, *yes we can* overthrow capitalism and class struggle, *yes we can* become more than we start as. That's what I as an anarchist/communist (I use the two interchangeably because state socialism is a farce) love about trek. it's a role model fiction. also you forgot in the bff video to include not *picard and guinan* but more like *everyone* and guinan, because guinan is just that great.
Your comment about perception of original, older Trek being more outwardly focused than inwardly certainly rings true, but, there may be an element that is a more widespread factor. Another TH-camr I watch has pointed out the fallacy in the assertion that people become more conservative the older they get. He points out that they aren't getting more conservative (generally speaking), it's that they stop keeping up with societal progression. So, it seems like they are moving away from the progressive end of the spectrum, but, in reality they've stepped off the train and stopped moving.
On the "DISCO doesn't feel like Trek" conversation: I know it gets made fun of, but the spore drive is so cool to me, because it represents the spirit of Trek in this really novel way. If you read Mycelium Running by Paul Stamets (the actual scientist for whom the character is named) you see how incredible and fascinating mycelium networks are. They're like the circulatory systems of forests, and are incredibly intelligent and responsive. It's fkn wild. So the way DISCO is was trying to shed a light and create this very SciFi (albeit fanciful) adaptation into the technology of a ship called Discovery, they were really giving a fresh voice to the spirit of the franchise that took in new and interesting science, organic science meeting with quantum theory. I do agree the tone was a bit jarring at first, but I really hope the fandom didn't scare writers and producers away from exploring new ideas.
Regarding the Rosenman score for Star Trek IV pulling from another Rosenman work, see also James Horner and his scores for Star Trek II and Krull. Yeah, it's a thing, and I don't have a problem with it either. Composers compose how they compose, you know? Each one's got their style and sound (except that unfairly brilliant Giacchino, who is, like, nine different composers in one), and it's inevitable that a couple of scores are going to sound the same. Hell, John Williams's scores for Star Wars and Indiana Jones have very similar sounds, with the brass section that sits on your chest and insists upon itself. The question is, does it work for the movie you're watching? And with Rosenman, Horner, and Williams, the answer is "Oh hell yeah." With Giacchino, you don't even have to watch the movie to answer that. What? He scored a VD PSA? Well, I already know it's brilliant and I want it on vinyl.
There's a Roger Corman movie from 1983 called Space Raiders (starring the kid from Over The Top). It was scored by James Horner, and if you ever watch it you'll notice a lot of the score consists of alternate takes of music from Star Trek II and III. So it wasn't just Krull. And the score works for Space Raiders, even though it's a little weird if you're familiar with the Star Trek movies before you watch it.
Hard Sci-fi isn't solely defined by plausibility, it's usually done best when a given technological idea is given a rigorous "what-if" examination of how it would impact us. Star Trek is a stage that can host both a hard sci-fi story, or a metaphor to our world, or a pulpy story. What it usually does better than many sci-fi writers is examine the human aspects of what a given idea might mean.
As an old fuck who saw Robin Hood: Men in Tights the year it was released, what made it so funny at the time was Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves with Kevin Costner and Morgan Freeman. The movie it is directly parodying. It was still extremely fresh in everyone’s mind at the time (my parents would watch it on repeat in my household). Watch that movie, then right after watch Men in Tights. It’s much, much funnier. Nowadays people don’t remember (or haven’t seen at all) Prince of Thieves, so a lot of the jokes get lost. Like with much comedy, it was a farcical take on something that was popular at the time, but has since been mostly forgotten. That’s an issue with several of Mel Brooks movies. Nobody ever forgets Young Frankenstein because everyone of any generation knows the Frankenstein story- but not everyone remembers the Gary Oldman/Keanu Reeves Dracula movie (Dracula:Dead and Loving it with Leslie Nielsen). Everyone knows Star Wars, so everyone still loves SpaceBalls. But a (very) early 90’s Robin Hood movie? Not everyone remembers. Know what I mean?
It's interesting. The lesson Star Fleet intends to teach with the Kobayashi Maru exercise is: There are no-win scenarios and you have to be prepared for that eventuality. However, a different philosophy seems to underpin Star Trek itself: Reject zero-sum analysis that suggests for someone to win, someone else has to lose. There's a basic rejection of fatalism and faith in innovation that seems more in line with Kirk's solution.
I agree that the archaeology thing wouldn't matter compared to the photo album, but it is kinda weird that it doesn't matter to him AT ALL. That said I never noticed that bit until RLM pointed it out so it honestly feels more like a fun easter egg to me, but there you go
Part of the jokes are referencing the original Robin Hood with Errol Flynn. Elwys is doing an impersonation of Flynn. Brooks parodied every Robin Hood movie.
Is it possible Guynan knew Picard would end up in the nexus? Due to the timeless nature of it, the ‘echo’ meeting Picard may have been a memory she was aware of even though she left many years before. It would explain why she gives him advice about it ahead of time.
I was born in the early 60's- literally cut my teeth on ST TOS. Was far too young, at the time, to really understand the social commentary of most of the episodes, but was struck by "Devil in the Dark," and "Let that be your Last Battlefield." Both of those were epiphanies for young me.
In fairness, Guinan might know Picard will end up in the cosmic sticky tape because she met him there. I recall she describes herself as an echo, but when add the temporal tape ribbon's non-specific rules to Guinan's own vague implication or powers or temporal perception... it's pretty much temporal Calvin ball at that point.
The Nexus is supposed to exist outside of time, right? I never really understood how you can be said to "leave" a place that denies the fundamental concepts which make "leaving" possible: the ability to progress forward to a time where you're not in the place you currently are.
People complaining about Picard's family album remind me of people who complain about Seven liking girls. It's treated like a retcon that there's something left to learn about the character; that we didn't know everything about them during the series or whatever other arbitrary cutoff point marks the line between orthodoxy and apostasy.
Also, honestly, Seven out and said monogamous heterosexual norms made no sense to her early on in her run on the show. So it's hardly out of nowhere. In fact I found it far more surprising that she then exclusively tried dating guys over the rest of the course of the show.
I interpreted Guinan's line about the Nexus as more of a description of it, based off of her own personal experience, rather than a warning to Picard that he shouldn't go in it. (Unless I am misremembering the context of that line.) That said she also has been shown to have strange powers that are never fully explained, so it's entirely possible she suspected Picard would find his way into the Nexus and was indeed warning him. Not sure if the Tuvix idea holds any weight, the episode clearly depicts Tuvix as being valuable to Voyager in the work he did as both security chief and cook, being more than the sum of both Tuvok and Neelix. For Star Wars I think Lucas had rough ideas of what he wanted to do in all nine movies (he was interviewed way back saying he wanted to do nine) but those stories evolved substantially as he made each one. IIRC we know the idea for Vader to be Luke's father wasn't established until Empires was made. The same goes for Return with Leia being Luke's sister. For the prequel movies I think Lucas did a great job making sure as many of the callbacks in the original trilogy still lined up but there's enough that don't to make it clear he reworked it massively from his original ideas.
About Star Trek IV- I'm reminded that a famous science fiction writer said it's relatively easy to come up an idea for a story. What's hard is creating a compelling finished product from that idea.
I also don't get people who are upset at Picard and the family album. Tbh I don't even get it from a fan perspective. People will fault Generations for having Picard distraught over losing his brother and newphew cause they were only in one episode, while also complaining about Picard not explicitly salvaging this artifact which was only in one episode. I get tossing it aside is a bit much, but people will rip on Generations for literally whatever reason.
The problem with the star wars sequel tribology is that Last Jedi tried to go against things setup in Force Awakens and then Rise of Skywalker tried to go against things setup in Last Jedi.
Totally agree on Rise of Skywalker but I'd like to know how you see Last Jedi going against things set up in the Force Awakens. There are three possible examples I can think you're referring to off the top of my head: - Luke as a hermit - The death of Snoke - Rey's parents All three use the elements set up in the Force Awakens, and the original trilogy, but turn them around in ways the audience isn't expecting. To use wrestling lingo, the movie does have a number of swerves, but I find the swerves cohesive, coherent, and compelling because they actually don't come out of no where, the ground work for them already exists, it just conflicts with the assumptions, extrapolations, and head cannon of many fan requiring them to look at past events through a different lens then they originally viewed them with. Do you have other examples?
The thing with Kirk in STIII is, once he knew about the Katra, or at least the basic idea that McCoy was being influenced by Spock in some way, he would have taken him to Vulcan... Except for the fact that SpocCoy was trying to get to Genesis. Kirk didn't really understand why, but he has faith in his friends. So he risks everything to get him to Genesis.
I will never be comforted once i realized they're correct that that transporters kill you and send a duplicate somewhere else. The duplicate is fully sentient, carries all the same memories, and the old person is destroyed (most of the time).
When he first said that, I thought, "What score? Really?" Then, not ten seconds later, that one theme started playing in my head immediately. I'd completely forgotten just how good the music was until now.
Hemmer broke my fucking heart. He became my favorite character, I excitedly told my Star Trek Adventures group, who had seen it all before me, during my marathon watch and not two fucking episodes later they killed him! My group was like "no one tell them" and I just know they were cackling at me hahaha!
I feel like if anyone was going to leave the Kelvin movies, Chekov is the easiest to write out. Throw a line in about him transferring off to serve on the Reliant, and you've already got an excuse from the original timeline as to why he isn't there. If you wanted to get extra fan points, replace him with Lt. Arex, who took his place in the Animated series, and you get a change to show off some fancy CGI too.
I think I know why Steve doesn't like Lower Decks. He is just jealous it is canon and not the Ensign's Log. Let see how much they have in common: - Ensigns who get into many crazy hijinks ☑ - Crazy hijinks only get more crazy and outlandish as time goes on ☑ - Not actually the "main story" of the star trek universe, but impacts the main story anyway ☑ - Convenient connections to "main" characters that serves the story ☑ - humor that is derived to being in the Star Trek universe ☑ - characters being promoted only to be demoted because of shenanigans ☑ - Cetacean Ops ☑ - Cetaceans want people to join them in the Pool ☑ - mains characters i are great friends, but still have fights ☑ - a main character that has self-destructive tendencies ☑ - a main character with self-doubt issues ☑ - Armus ☑* - Q ☑* - Canon ❌ And By canon I mean a the official set of Star Trek works rather than in-universe continuity of events. *only somewhat with Q and Armus as they don't play a role in a Lower Decks story, but they do appear so it counts.
I meant to comment on the BFF episode, but I needed time to ruminate on it first. To me, Geordi and Data's friendship is both amazing and sad. Amazing because Geordi was one of the first to recognize the humanity of a Soong-type android, and sad because... isn't it just another example of the show doing Geordi dirty? His best friend is an emotionless android. His love interest is a hologram. We never saw what happened to him in 'Genesis' but it was probably just THE WORST. At least they invite him to the poker games... And as for Generations and introducing the battle bridge: instead of the High Seas Adventure, the promotion to lieutenant commander is a test- manually re-dock the Saucer section. Worf is in the BB with a minimal, and more importantly, novice crew, while the rest of the senior staff is on the real bridge, hands off, but waiting to intervene if needed. Then, later [presuming we get everyone from the Nexus back to the ship] during the attack, Picard says "we need to confuse the Bird of Prey with targets, prepare to separate the ship." Then he looks to Riker who gives him a knowing smile. He turns to Kirk, "Admiral, would you like to take command of the Drive Section?"
One day I shall say something profound enough to be featured...... Ahahaha. I want both to be honest. I want my fiction to show me a world I can take comfort in. The world is dark and gritty enough as it is, but at you can be challenged, morally, ethically, mentally, socially, without sinking into the endless rounds of misery poker that so many shows do. Even at its darkest, Star Trek never makes me feel unclean watching it. It's always about people striving to be better.
This does come down to your “bad writing” point, but the reason the Star Wars sequel movies were (in part) bad because they didn’t have a plan was due to JJ Abrams mystery box. He set up in Force awakens deliberate plot threads and mysteries with zero intention with what they meant; and tie that to a lack of a sense of what the sequel films were even about led to the unfocused nature of the trilogy. Deep Space Nine, in comparison was also made up on the fly with a few mysteries, like Odo’s origin, being left deliberately vague at the start. But the difference is Deep Space Nine has thematic intent.
All the seeds of Bashir not talking to his parents, with no greater plan, paid-off nicely as well. It really is all about knowing how to handle just-in-time plot planning, rather than having any one Right Way to write that everyone must follow.
Good point. It's way more important to have a grasp on what the thing is actually about as far as the big picture than it is to have every little plot point mapped out far in advance. The goal should be to make it _feel_ like you weren't just making it up as you went along, even though you were.
The time travel book from Donnie Darko IS real, kinda. A 15ish page version of it was featured on a website full of secrets that launched with the movie. You can still dig it up, it contains a LOT in just a few pages.
Is it too much to ask for both, i think it should challenge us with new ideas and to open our minds. It should also cimfort us that the human spirt(for lack of a better term) can provale over hardship and see us through these challenges. I always thought that best episodes had challenges along side hope for the future.
Long time viewer, first time commenting (I think! I'm pretty sure.) Hardcore Lower Decks fan here. What do we want from you? Nothing bro, I think you're already nailing it! Obviously, I can't genuinely speak for all the other LD fans but considering that you're clearly not the target demographic, I think you treat it pretty damned respectfully. I don't agree with a lot of the roasting you give it - but I can't really disagree with what you call it out for, either. It's just that with me, well - I guess I'm in the target demo, because they're not negative points for me. For example: I really like the fact that I can rewatch it and see different in-jokes in the background every time, whereas you appear to hate the number of jokes that dynamic requires (as is your right, of course!). My point is this: Enterprise is still my favourite ST series after all this time, so I know what fandom mockery feels like. You don't particularly enjoy Lower Decks, but - and this is key - you don't care if others enjoy it. That's why your anti-LD quips land (for me at least) like friendly fake-tribal banter amongst fans, and not like some kind of ST Gatekeeper loser person. I just thought that was worth mentioning. Not a lot of nuance and empathy out there nowadays. You're a legend, Steve Shives. Keep up the great work! 11:10 - case in point! I love LD but it's not exactly high art. XD
As someone who is a Men in Tights fan, I don't like Lower Decks. Only watched the DS9 episode and was like, "not my thing." I did like the crossover with Strange New Worlds, though.
I started watching your content recently and wanted to say I appreciate your work. Most videos I've seen are 3-5 years old but I'm happy to see you are still at it.
I get calling Spaceballs a great Star Wars movie, and it's also the last Mel Brooks movie that I loved. However, when I saw Men In Tights in the theater back in the day, I thought it had ONE funny line about Cary Elwes' ability to speak with an English accent, because back then I was still annoyed by Costner's attempted accent in Prince of Thieves. Now? Wow, that was just one more cheap, dumb joke that did not work.
On Lower Decks, I recently watched all of it for the first time, and I had low expectations because of your commentary on the show. And while it had issues, like an excess of fan service, sped up dialogue that doesn't let moments sit, an over emphasis on comedy that doesn't always hit, etc... I found that it had a lot of good qualities. There were good story beats, good character moments, some of the comedy did actually hit well, and the core message of the show that it returns to every time is one that speaks to the more cynical tone of Picard and Discovery's early seasons. That message is one of taking joy in exploration and making an effort to help others, even when your organization might not be behind you doing it. The struggle for Mariner really embodies this, as she has trouble handling the dissonance of Starfleet's actions at times compared to what Starfleet stands for. The realization she comes to is that believing in those ideals and trying to turn them into reality are more important than being upset with the organization for not always living up to those same ideals. In some ways this feels like commentary on American democracy, admittedly said as an outsider from Canada. When people say that they have given up hope on democracy because of the failures of the system, and so they don't even try to vote or engage, it doesn't fix anything, it just leaves the door open for people like Trump. Only by engaging with the flawed system in an attempt to live up to its ideals do you stand a chance of making those ideals real. Sorry, long rant of me saying that while your criticism is warranted, I think Lower Decks was better than you give it credit for.
Have you ever considered doing a "comment response response"? Every time I watch a comment response video, the viewer comments and your rebuttals/expansions/retorts always provoke deeper questions about and insights into the topics discussed. I realize this could become an "Inception"-type situation (comment response response *response*?!?), but I think there could be a lively exchange between yourself and my fellow viewers. Regardless, thank you for another wonderful video!
Does Star Trek challenge us? I'm struggling to think of an example, at least from recent Trek. It's mainly playing the greatest hits (which are, indeed, great hits). But the closest it's come to challenging me recently (though I admit to not watching Discovery, so cannot comment on that) is SNW's court episode, which I found extremely frustrating due to a total unwillingness to treat genetic engineering as distinct from race. So, I really would have been interested in a broader examination of Illyrian history and culture (really, a 100% voluntary uptake on genetic engineering? No religious groups that object? No ugly political groups complaining about it corrupting the 'purity of the Illyrian form'? No 'back-to-nature' groups refusing altogether? I feel about that about the same way you feel about Ferengi 'never' engaging in slavery--sure, the writers are in charge of what happens in their universe, but come on), but instead it's just treated as a racism/immigration allegory. Now, would any ugly history justify denying Number One her rightful place as Number One? Of course not, but make it an actual conversation/argument, especially since the audience knows that the ban on genetic engineering is not going to be overturned (due to Bashir). As a racism/immigration allegory it works fine, but especially as we move towards an era of genetic engineering...well, it's the same concern I have about a lot of the 'AI are just people' message as we move towards an era where AI is possible. I really, really hope that's true...but I am unconvinced.
10:30 Men in tights was just a fun movie to listen to when you're doing stuff around the house, it's just a fun parody. Captain Picard as King Richard, chefs kiss. Now Prince of Thieves, a good movie with a great cast. I mean after Die Hard who else would you want for the Sheriff of Nottingham? The movie score sells the whole vibe too.
Executives not caring about what is being made is very accurate. There was a story about, I think Ronald D. Moore, who worked on a lot of Star Trek shows, where he was pitching an episode. Knowing that he was speaking to executives who knew nothing about Star Trek, he made a point to talk about how a mine would be stuck to the hull of the ship (I think Voyager?), what the dramatic highs and lows would be, where the action would take place, etc. At the end, an executive raised a hand and asked "What's a hull?"
Interesting. Out of the 3 SW sequels, I also like The Last Jedi the most. It is not perfect, but it is good and for me, has a lot of Star Wars feeling.
@@alanpennie8013 and it manages to make the Force feel like it did in episodes IV and V again, rather than all systematised and codified. I loved the idea that the ways the Republic Jedi measured the Force was just one way out of many, and the shot of the servant boy summoning a broom like it's the most natural thing in the world. And Yoda having to drill it into Luke's head felt like a direct allegory to certain fans. But I guess that either went over their head or they decided it was insulting. (The SACRED JEDI TEX)
I thought it was all about the whale's true voyage home. Saving Wales. Star Trek IV is definitely up there on the list of best trek adventures. The musical score for the voyage home is quite epic mixed with light-hearted interludes that really highlights the more comedic tones of the film. I've had it on vinyl since I was a kid, I've seen every trek film in the theater minus the first one, not borne yet. Wrath of Kahn was the first movie I saw in the theater with my dad.
About discovery being dark and about it's Star Treky values, I think on rewatching it's maybe remembered as more dark in season 1 than it actually was, the dominion war in DS9 got pretty grim at times but maybe the more jovial episodes override that a little. Also I think the spore drive itself is a good example of Star Trek values when we're lead to believe that this ship is a bit shifty and oohhh maybe they're developing a new weapon. But when Micheal confronts the crew about it we get the line "we're not developing new ways to kill, we're developing new ways to fly" which I liked
All of the "Homes" Voyaged to in A Voyage Home -- or at least all the ones I can think of: 1. Earth (23rd century) -- Kirk & co. to face the music 2. Earth (23rd century again) Kirk & co. to return to their own time. 3. Earth (20th century) -- our (the contemporary audience!) home 4. Earth (20th century) -- our literal homes, via VHS or... Betamax? This was 1986, when home video releases were a new and exciting thing, yeah? It counts! ....maybe......... 5. The new Enterprise -- NCC-1701-A 6. Kirk's role as captain, his home being the center-chair of a starship. 7. Space itself -- that's where home is, out there, exploring -- the starship itself is merely a means to that end. (Admittedly these three are all kinda-sorta the same). 8 A *new* home for the Whales, where they can live in peace (and presumably restore their species). 9. Spock finding his "home" among Kirk and the Enterprise crew -- chosen family and all that. 10. The crew itself getting to stay together permanently on the new ship, after everyone having gone their separate ways prior to TMP (and only being together in the prior movies due to temporary, special circumstances). 11. Spock finding his "home" in his own mind -- finally finding "himself" both after his death and after struggling throughout the movies, in a kind of background character arc, with the dueling sides of his upbringing, Vulcan and Human (a conflict I think we're supposed to project backwards to his appearances in TOS to explain the Kolinar Ritual thing and where he starts out in TMP) and sort of becoming the best possible version of himeslf. Did that last one make any sense? I think it got away from me a bit -- both the thought and the sentence itself. Anyway, that's all the 'homes' I can think of in Star Trek IV. Anyone come up with any others?
"If there are so many of you that love a movie like 'Robinhood: Men in Tights' ...That completely explains to me why so many of you also love Lower Decks." Brilliant take-down. I actually lol'd while drinking and did a spit take. Bravo, sir! P.S. edit -- Personally, I love Lower Decks. Not as much as many of the other series, but I smile a lot when I watch it and it just feels good. That said, I hated Robinhood: MIT. I agree... it was the worst movie Mel Brooks made. Terribly unfunny and full of forced humor.
In regards to the Star Wars sequels not being planned out, I've realized that I feel like they *were* planned out, but just not in the way you'd typically think of. They weren't planned in the sense of having a full story arc in mind ahead of time, but rather they were planned to respond to audience reactions. The Force Awakens was a response to people not liking the prequel trilogy, The Last Jedi was a response to audiences thinking TFA was too similar to the original trilogy, and The Rise of Skywalker was a response to the internet still being on fire years later. The original trilogy wasn't "planned out" either, but it also wasn't so blatantly influenced by the mad ravings of the "fans."
It is the imagination of Science Fiction writers, which are very often a vision of goodness or good versus evil that inspire scientists and engineers, that in turn make the technologies of Science Fiction a reality. Thank you SF writers and all writers of books.
I had been puzzled by how the right wing thought Star Trek "went woke" when they had always progressive. Steve pointing out that the focus of the "bad" behavior having been on the aliens and "others" in the old shows and had turned to our heroes/ourselves in the newer shows gave me a better understanding. Some people apparently view introspection as a flaw rather than a feature.
I appreciate your insightful prodding of my latent complaints... 1 - Tuvix- I wish there had been some reference to the TNG episode 'second chances', as in Torres asking "couldn't we replicate the accident that replicated William Riker?" 2- Discovery - I still can't accept that Burnham didn't receive an earlier commendation for trying to forestall the war, since following Sarek's advice would have saved millions of lives. I felt cheated at the end when the original plan to destroy Chronos was aborted. We saw the destruction of Earth in the Ent episode Twight, saw the destruction of Romulus and Vulcan in the 2009 movie, but Chronos was spared after all the destruction the Klingons inflicted on Federation assets... not acceptable! Fortunately the series significantly improved...
Ideally, both: Balance of Terror; Journey to Babel; the Kira-Odo relationship developing in the context to a very well presented and realistic war story . . . .
I think that the most important voyage home in The Voyage home was Spock's voyage home, as his home is with Kirk and the rest of the his friends on the crew. The Earth and the ship are also 'Home', but not their most important one.
Funny cause I just came to TH-cam because I was watching the blight episodes and I turned it off just before they all start screaming. I didn't want to be challenged right now apparently so I came to you for comfort
I'm not sure that people think Sci Fi is seen as a harder sci fi than it is. I think people WANT it to be, they see it as more 'prophetic if we work hard enough' which some of it might be (like iPads and other tablets, and touch screens) but other parts might not be like warp/alcubierre drives, and teleportation).
Should Star Trek challenge or comfort us? Yes to both.
I'm a retired network engineer and administrator. I watched Dr. Who growing up in Scotland but when we moved to Seattle in 1970 I discovered ST:TOS almost immediately. The one local independent (i.e. non network affiliate) station ran it on Saturday and Sunday nights. I mention that just to say that I heard from countless people in the I.T. fields over the 40 years I was actively involved in it that ST was one of the main reasons that they were inspired to study the fields that they did.
Hey! I come from an IT family too, and we're all Trek fans. Also shoutout to Seattle!! I don't know if you're still here, but I'm a fellow Seattleite! So shoutout! ☺️
"Lieutenant Worf, it's a pleasure to meet you. I KNEW YOUR GRANDFATHER. HE WAS AN HONORABLE MAN." - Kirk
The shock should be one of recognition as opposed to one of apprehension.
Dang . . . that would actually have been an amazing moment, an actor allusion worthy of Trek @@voltron4212
Cant we do both@@voltron4212 ? First the latter, then the former
He was his father. 🎉
@@amymjenningsNo, Colonel Worf was Mogh's father, and Worf's grandfather.
People who get their onesies in a twist over Star Trek Technobabble just need to get their Heisenberg Over-compensators Recalibrated
It CANNOT be an accident that the guy who played Chekov is named Anton.
Is it too much to ask for both? That's what i love about Star Trek during the TNG-ENT era. If i want to be challenged, i watch DS9. My comfort Trek is Voyager. Even if i recognise that it's the most wildly inconsistent Trek of all in terms of writing. But that's also a problem with TNG during the early days, and also towards the end. I have different Trek favorites i watch in different moods. And that's good. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Absolutely depends on the mood. Sometimes I want a thought provoking story other times I want a light hearted comfort episode
Someone must have mentioned that O'Brien and Bashir spent multiple episodes BUILDING A MODEL of the Alamo. Nerds!
This is a Star Trek video. We're all nerds here!
And somehow monopolising space in Quark's. I guess with the civilians still off the station they had room.
Kinda like the (sadly now closed) pub which hosted Magic the Gathering Wednesdays, they had a giant round table which was great for multiplayer games. But I could tell even back then they must've been desperate for patronage.
@@thing_under_the_stairs true, but this is a reference to Steve's light jabs at Tendi and Rutherford, by calling them nerds.
I LOVE their bro-mance,it's so good and shows the down time the personnel enjoy on DS9. I served in the navy 7 yrs and the army 7yrs and Strek Trek is beloved in both branches of service,mainly TNG tho. SORRY folks,just going by what i saw. LOL. When an episode was on,the day room was-QUIET,no one said &&&& !!! LOL. Until after the episode ended,then there was discussion on that episode. Star Wars is also beloved by the military.
I think it would have been difficult to examine Picard and Guinan's relationship since so much of it is offscreen; we are told about it rather than see it very often.
PS. 11:28 I can't believe one of my comments made the video!! Thanks for featuring me!
This, 100%. It's a little frustrating when a show TELLS you that two characters are BFFs, so you pretty much just have to take them at their word, but they don't SHOW you (and in all fairness, they eventually do with Guinan and Picard more or less,) versus something like Geordi and Data where you actually see them go from strangers to friends, in a way that the writers didn't even plan for.
I love Picard and Guinan's relationship overall, but I'm so glad you pointed this out, because I was thinking the exact same thing.
They should challenge us.
"Challenge your preconceptions, or they will challenge you" as the Vulcan saying goes.
I thought The Sphinx said that.
the first original 'flip-phone' cell phones were based off the design of the TOS communicator
In fact they had to be redesigned because people kept flipping them open and breaking the hinge.
Flip phones, too...but cell phones in general were inspired by Star Trek.
But yes, there is a reason the first flip phone brought to mass market was called the Star-Tac.
OK, I'll admit I am a _Galaxy Quest_ fan. I love the fact that the fan protagonist actually does save the world. Having been a Star Trek fan since the time I bought a little TV to take with me to college so I wouldn't miss the broadcasting of the original series -- Fans are good people. They really are.
I can explain Guinan bringing up Picard going into the Nexus: Time doesn't exist there, so everyone in the Nexus at any point in time are all there at the same time. Since Guinan had been in the Nexus and Picard does go into the Nexus, she knew he'd be going in - since they were there together already, at least from her point of reference.
And her perceptions had already been established in the show as not being limited to a linear three-dimensional existence like ours are. She can sense when time has gone kerflooey
You could even read it as her reminding him how to get out
Steve thought he was getting the good joke on the Men In Tights x Lower Decks bit, but I was having the same realization about him as he was working through his lol
It's OK to not like silly slapstick Steve. The other part you're missing is that Cary Elwes is a beautiful, wonderful man, and that makes up for a lot. For those of us of that persuasion, at least.
It really amazes me that Lower Decks interleaves stories that are just one physical gag after another with stories that are deeply emotional, sometimes in the same episode, and lands them more often than not.
It should _always_ challenge us.
"You just don't get it, do you, Jean-Luc? _The trial never ends._ We wanted to see if you had the ability to expand your mind and your horizons. And for one brief moment, you did."
"When I realized the paradox."
"Exactly. For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you had never considered. That is the exploration that awaits you. Not mapping stars and studying nebulae, but charting the unknown possibilities of existence."
"What is it that you're trying to tell me?"
"You'll find out someday. In any case ... I'll be watching. And if you're very lucky, I'll drop by to say hello from time to time. See you … out there.…"
YES!!!
The Voyage Home is not only going back to Earth or a new Enterprise, but also the crew coming back together and starting new adventures.
I love Lower Decks AND Men in Tights. 😞
Don't make a sad face. I haven't seen Lower Decks yet but Men In Tights is amazing comedy and despite the fact that Steve is a smart guy and an excellent creator, he is very wrong about it.
De gustibus non est disputandum--goes double for humor
@@renatocorvaro6924 (smug Patrick Stewart voice) "From now on, the lavatory shall be known as... the John!"
@@renatocorvaro6924 Mel Brooks does a lot of old style humour because he was a vaudevillian. It's not for everyone, but his movies always get a laugh from me.
Steve is maddeningly incorrect about what is and isnt hilarious
Being a huge Dean Koontz fan, I was so excited when Odd Thomas came out. Anton Yelchin absolutely nailed the role. Such a tragic loss.
The only thing I recall about Prince of Thieves is that Robin Hood ends up at Hadrian’s Wall after landing at Dover, before heading back to Nottingham, a rather silly detour.
If you ever watch a film set in a city you know you will realise that film geography is entirely different from real - world geography.
To be fair, the section of hadrian's wall used does look fairly mid-kentish; if you don't know better, it can pass relatively well and is by far the least glaring of location choices I've seen in films of that time, especially for a film not set in the united states.
@@alanpennie8013 Or if you ever read a Dan Brown book with Google Maps open...
Hey hey! Thanks for calling out my comment! Yeah, it was more of a spitballing thing, but yeah, you'd have to change up the whole script to get it to happen. But, you gotta admit, Kirk dying on THAT bridge would be way better than him dying under that other bridge.
It would be pretty easy to fill in; simply have the Enterprise fend off the Romulan attack on Soren's station. Warbird hits some critical power junction, or maybe they hack them, Data tech-techs a solution by rerouting power through the battle bridge, so we see characters in the physical set hotwiring shit, or contrive that Riker's in the engineering section and he grabs some officers and overrides command that way, letting Riker save the ship an hour before he crashes it. OR, you could book end it! Say the Enterprise B has a battle bridge and THAT'S where Kirk is when it explodes, and the audience can infer this is standard starfleet design. And if anyone says "We've never seen the Excelsiors with a battle bridge", fuk em, the Excelsior is an off-screen ship. It's not a hard set up that would require TOO much change in order to get it to function, honestly getting Kirk ON the BB would be the harder part.
@@dataportdoll Absolutely! And auxiliary bridges have been part of starship design since the Original Series, as anyone with the Enterprise deck plans that came with FASA's Star Trek: The Roleplaying Game knows. ;)
I really should watch Prince of Thieves, but for me the best Robin Hood is the furry one.
Alan Rickman's performance is some of the most captivating schlock ever.
Oo-de-lally, oo-de-lally, golly, what a day.
The costumes are cringe, the script is cringe, Kevin Costner is cringe, but Alan Rickman and Morgan Freeman make it worth at least one watch. Bonus, you get to see the famous tree at Hadrian's Wall that was recently cut down by a vandal.
@@sharimeline3077The story is also very good. It’s the best-written & best-paced Robin Hood movie.
@@TheWoodler My sister and I *still* quote over the top Alan Rickman lines from that movie at each other! That man could chew up the scenery as an enthralling villain like nobody else.
One of the things I love about Trek is the number of close friendships the characters have, regardless of the gender.
35:08 in addition to “only Spock dies” vs “everyone (including Spock) dies” being a logical choice, it’s at least implied (maybe stated outright by McCoy? It’s been a while) that nobody else aboard the Enterprise could survive long enough to complete the warp core repair/restart. Or maybe nobody else both has the knowledge to do it and could survive long enough to do it. If that’s the case, it’s not just one person vs everyone, it’s very specifically _Spock_ or everyone.
I would say that Star Trek is equal parts challenging and comforting. True, the episodes themselves VERY often focus on challenging our morals and our current understanding of the world - but the overall message is extremely comforting, and it's something that shows up time and time again throughout the franchise, even in the darkest of episodes and seasons: No matter how bad things get, no matter how challenging the current situation may be, we CAN be better - and, over time, we WILL be better. We may skirt the horrors of full Armageddon - but a brighter future is always waiting for us to step up and accept it.
It's a deeply comforting thought, especially in troubled times.
I would agree, and point to the fact that TOS was originally conceived of as a "Wagon Train to the Stars" -- Wagon Train itself being the title of a (then) very popular and well-known Western TV series (1957-1965). The show was always meant to a mix of the new and familiar, and I think the best Star Trek stories have taken advantage of that fact.
Like... the best way to challenge someone -- if you want them to be receptive to what you're gonna be saying, at least -- is to make them comfortable first.
Oh hey, I picked-up on the fact that Kirk was doing it as a mission of mourning and mercy in my very first viewing! (Preen, preen.) I think watching with subtitles helps get little important bits of dialogue like that stuck in my brain though.
I loved that he went to all that trouble just to honour the death rites of his best friend. He doesn't care that it's illegal, could blow up his whole career, or even cause an incident with the Klingons. None of that matters anymore, because Spock is DEAD!!
A more modern film might've over-sold how little the rest of his life mattered to him, in those moments, with a montage of Kirk moodily drinking first. Or flying a shuttle recklessly. But they just left that little plot detail there, to be picked-up whenever the viewer's ready. And I respect that.
That framed picture of Riker cracks me up so much
At this point in my life (68 Y/O), ST-TOS simply *comforts* me!
Fun fact: my first glimpse of ST-TOS was the original broadcast of "The Trouble with Tribbles" on Dec 29, 1967!
*What* a 'first impression'!
That episode will always be important to me and my siblings, because my oldest brother (we are all ancient like mimeograph) managed to get a verified Tribble used in the episode. (Yes, it could have been a scam. But we choose to believe. It's not like we're selling it.)
Recently I heard an interview with the actual science advisor for the Star Trek franchise, Erin MacDonald. Sometimes she has to tell the writers that they are too far off from something that can be "scientific." Often there is some leeway, but sometimes things don't make it into scripts.
I read Guinan as "remembering" seeing Picard in the Nexus in her non-linear, out-of-time-and-space consciousness kind of way.
Same here. I think it also helps to explain the deep connection they have.
On the Kobayashi Maru part, given the context of Star Trek III where Spock IS actually saved and brought back to life, and by the end of IV is back to his old self, one could argue that there 'was' a way out of that 'no win scenario.' It took an extra movie or two to fully get there, granted.
Then again, David dies in Star Trek 3 so I guess not afterall, but was a fun thought there for a second.
On the topic of current science and tech often being based on ideas from Star Trek, I'm not gonna lie, when my mum and I got our first smartphones and started checking out everything they can do, we looked at each other and said "We have tricorders!"
Ten years ago, I very vaguely, distantly heard of Steve Shives as a guy who just blocked everyone online, no questions asked.
No fun allowed.
A few (many) changes in my mental diet later, imagine my surprise to find Steve Shives just sitting here, relaxing as he talked about a subject of mutual passion: Star Trek.
I don't know, I think he'd be a cool uncle.
Not all things should challenge us, but I think Star Trek should. It should push limits, explore concepts, contest popular ideas. But these challenges can be comforting as well.
In fact, many episodes show characters showing discomfort when they are prevented from challenging ideas. And in many, characters find comfort as a result of challenging ideas, even when they don't come to a definitive answer.
DS9 was an entire setting with multiple cultures (sometimes with conflicting ideals) coexisting, and many episodes focused on issues of personal identity, cultural conflicts, found family, belief, and in the case of Quark and Rom, accepting change to the culture they grew up with.
Re: the Kobayashi Maru, it’s a little more complicated than that. The movie agrees with Kirk that it doesn’t believe in the no-win scenario. What it denies is that you can always win without sacrifice. This is made explicit by Spock: “I never took the Kobayashi Maru test, until now. What do you think of my solution?” So Spock almost does what the commenter said, but not quite. He disregards the dichotomy of choosing the number of dead and invents a solution that saves everyone but himself. And interestingly, I think this is a lesson Kirk had already learned. He lost people while commanding the Enterprise. Sure, he saved most of them (and always saved all the main characters he - and we - cared about the most). But he didn’t save everyone all the time. So he hadn’t always “cheated death” completely, as he claims when talking to David. But I think that being at a desk job for years and also coming through the five year mission with all his closest ship mates surviving obscured that lesson. He had to learn it again, more painfully, in TWOK, and then learn it yet again in Search for Spock when he has to sacrifice the Enterprise when faced with another seemingly “no-win” scenario.
It's the difference of understanding what a 'no win scenario' is.
The term "warp drive" existed before Star Trek OR Alcubierre's warp drive. It's called a "warp drive" because it involves the warping of spacetime, and it's been a concept in both science fiction and actual science since, afaik, the 40s and 50s.
SO with you on The Last Jedi. It was the first time I was actually surprised by anything in Star Wars since Empire, and it took the series forward.... until whatever Rise of Skywalker was happened.
Trek should do *both.* it should challenge us to examine ourselves and our society when harmful norms we face everyday are juxtaposed with the characters' efforts to preserve the gains and growth society has made since the 2100s and not slip back into our position of struggle. It should also comfort us by showing us that *yes we can* have it all, *yes we can* reach for the stars and make new friends in the unknown, *yes we can* overthrow capitalism and class struggle, *yes we can* become more than we start as. That's what I as an anarchist/communist (I use the two interchangeably because state socialism is a farce) love about trek. it's a role model fiction.
also you forgot in the bff video to include not *picard and guinan* but more like *everyone* and guinan, because guinan is just that great.
Your comment about perception of original, older Trek being more outwardly focused than inwardly certainly rings true, but, there may be an element that is a more widespread factor.
Another TH-camr I watch has pointed out the fallacy in the assertion that people become more conservative the older they get. He points out that they aren't getting more conservative (generally speaking), it's that they stop keeping up with societal progression. So, it seems like they are moving away from the progressive end of the spectrum, but, in reality they've stepped off the train and stopped moving.
On the "DISCO doesn't feel like Trek" conversation: I know it gets made fun of, but the spore drive is so cool to me, because it represents the spirit of Trek in this really novel way. If you read Mycelium Running by Paul Stamets (the actual scientist for whom the character is named) you see how incredible and fascinating mycelium networks are. They're like the circulatory systems of forests, and are incredibly intelligent and responsive. It's fkn wild. So the way DISCO is was trying to shed a light and create this very SciFi (albeit fanciful) adaptation into the technology of a ship called Discovery, they were really giving a fresh voice to the spirit of the franchise that took in new and interesting science, organic science meeting with quantum theory.
I do agree the tone was a bit jarring at first, but I really hope the fandom didn't scare writers and producers away from exploring new ideas.
Regarding the Rosenman score for Star Trek IV pulling from another Rosenman work, see also James Horner and his scores for Star Trek II and Krull. Yeah, it's a thing, and I don't have a problem with it either. Composers compose how they compose, you know? Each one's got their style and sound (except that unfairly brilliant Giacchino, who is, like, nine different composers in one), and it's inevitable that a couple of scores are going to sound the same. Hell, John Williams's scores for Star Wars and Indiana Jones have very similar sounds, with the brass section that sits on your chest and insists upon itself. The question is, does it work for the movie you're watching? And with Rosenman, Horner, and Williams, the answer is "Oh hell yeah." With Giacchino, you don't even have to watch the movie to answer that. What? He scored a VD PSA? Well, I already know it's brilliant and I want it on vinyl.
The Elfman Carnival is almost a musical meme.
There's a Roger Corman movie from 1983 called Space Raiders (starring the kid from Over The Top). It was scored by James Horner, and if you ever watch it you'll notice a lot of the score consists of alternate takes of music from Star Trek II and III. So it wasn't just Krull. And the score works for Space Raiders, even though it's a little weird if you're familiar with the Star Trek movies before you watch it.
On Guinans warning, I always took it as Guinan knew he was going into the nexus because hes already there in its timeless nature.
Unlike some other Robin Hoods, I can speak with an English accent!
Great line from a great movie.
Same, and I'm not even British!
Hard Sci-fi isn't solely defined by plausibility, it's usually done best when a given technological idea is given a rigorous "what-if" examination of how it would impact us. Star Trek is a stage that can host both a hard sci-fi story, or a metaphor to our world, or a pulpy story. What it usually does better than many sci-fi writers is examine the human aspects of what a given idea might mean.
Whats that poster behind you? What does the top say and where can I get one like this?
As an old fuck who saw Robin Hood: Men in Tights the year it was released, what made it so funny at the time was Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves with Kevin Costner and Morgan Freeman. The movie it is directly parodying. It was still extremely fresh in everyone’s mind at the time (my parents would watch it on repeat in my household). Watch that movie, then right after watch Men in Tights. It’s much, much funnier.
Nowadays people don’t remember (or haven’t seen at all) Prince of Thieves, so a lot of the jokes get lost. Like with much comedy, it was a farcical take on something that was popular at the time, but has since been mostly forgotten.
That’s an issue with several of Mel Brooks movies. Nobody ever forgets Young Frankenstein because everyone of any generation knows the Frankenstein story- but not everyone remembers the Gary Oldman/Keanu Reeves Dracula movie (Dracula:Dead and Loving it with Leslie Nielsen).
Everyone knows Star Wars, so everyone still loves SpaceBalls.
But a (very) early 90’s Robin Hood movie? Not everyone remembers. Know what I mean?
It's interesting. The lesson Star Fleet intends to teach with the Kobayashi Maru exercise is: There are no-win scenarios and you have to be prepared for that eventuality. However, a different philosophy seems to underpin Star Trek itself: Reject zero-sum analysis that suggests for someone to win, someone else has to lose. There's a basic rejection of fatalism and faith in innovation that seems more in line with Kirk's solution.
I agree that the archaeology thing wouldn't matter compared to the photo album, but it is kinda weird that it doesn't matter to him AT ALL. That said I never noticed that bit until RLM pointed it out so it honestly feels more like a fun easter egg to me, but there you go
Part of the jokes are referencing the original Robin Hood with Errol Flynn. Elwys is doing an impersonation of Flynn. Brooks parodied every Robin Hood movie.
Is it possible Guynan knew Picard would end up in the nexus? Due to the timeless nature of it, the ‘echo’ meeting Picard may have been a memory she was aware of even though she left many years before. It would explain why she gives him advice about it ahead of time.
I was born in the early 60's- literally cut my teeth on ST TOS. Was far too young, at the time, to really understand the social commentary of most of the episodes, but was struck by "Devil in the Dark," and "Let that be your Last Battlefield." Both of those were epiphanies for young me.
In fairness, Guinan might know Picard will end up in the cosmic sticky tape because she met him there. I recall she describes herself as an echo, but when add the temporal tape ribbon's non-specific rules to Guinan's own vague implication or powers or temporal perception... it's pretty much temporal Calvin ball at that point.
She's apparently able to sense when the timeline she's in has been altered (Yesterday's Enterprise). Who knows what else a mind like that could do?
The Nexus is supposed to exist outside of time, right? I never really understood how you can be said to "leave" a place that denies the fundamental concepts which make "leaving" possible: the ability to progress forward to a time where you're not in the place you currently are.
More like half a season, since that's how many episodes of SNW Hemmer was in, in season 1.
People complaining about Picard's family album remind me of people who complain about Seven liking girls. It's treated like a retcon that there's something left to learn about the character; that we didn't know everything about them during the series or whatever other arbitrary cutoff point marks the line between orthodoxy and apostasy.
Also, honestly, Seven out and said monogamous heterosexual norms made no sense to her early on in her run on the show. So it's hardly out of nowhere. In fact I found it far more surprising that she then exclusively tried dating guys over the rest of the course of the show.
@@kaitlyn__L For what it's worth, I've heard that Jeri Ryan wanted Seven to date Janeway but wasn't allowed to by the executives.
People complaining about the family album watched too much of Red Letter Media's bad faith criticisms.
@@jimballard1186 oh that would’ve been great. (But then Janeway/Seven was one of my first Trek ships.)
I interpreted Guinan's line about the Nexus as more of a description of it, based off of her own personal experience, rather than a warning to Picard that he shouldn't go in it. (Unless I am misremembering the context of that line.)
That said she also has been shown to have strange powers that are never fully explained, so it's entirely possible she suspected Picard would find his way into the Nexus and was indeed warning him.
Not sure if the Tuvix idea holds any weight, the episode clearly depicts Tuvix as being valuable to Voyager in the work he did as both security chief and cook, being more than the sum of both Tuvok and Neelix.
For Star Wars I think Lucas had rough ideas of what he wanted to do in all nine movies (he was interviewed way back saying he wanted to do nine) but those stories evolved substantially as he made each one. IIRC we know the idea for Vader to be Luke's father wasn't established until Empires was made. The same goes for Return with Leia being Luke's sister. For the prequel movies I think Lucas did a great job making sure as many of the callbacks in the original trilogy still lined up but there's enough that don't to make it clear he reworked it massively from his original ideas.
About Star Trek IV- I'm reminded that a famous science fiction writer said it's relatively easy to come up an idea for a story. What's hard is creating a compelling finished product from that idea.
I also don't get people who are upset at Picard and the family album. Tbh I don't even get it from a fan perspective. People will fault Generations for having Picard distraught over losing his brother and newphew cause they were only in one episode, while also complaining about Picard not explicitly salvaging this artifact which was only in one episode. I get tossing it aside is a bit much, but people will rip on Generations for literally whatever reason.
There's a lot of things wrong with the writing of this movie, but the Picard family album isn't one of them.
The problem with the star wars sequel tribology is that Last Jedi tried to go against things setup in Force Awakens and then Rise of Skywalker tried to go against things setup in Last Jedi.
Totally agree on Rise of Skywalker but I'd like to know how you see Last Jedi going against things set up in the Force Awakens. There are three possible examples I can think you're referring to off the top of my head:
- Luke as a hermit
- The death of Snoke
- Rey's parents
All three use the elements set up in the Force Awakens, and the original trilogy, but turn them around in ways the audience isn't expecting. To use wrestling lingo, the movie does have a number of swerves, but I find the swerves cohesive, coherent, and compelling because they actually don't come out of no where, the ground work for them already exists, it just conflicts with the assumptions, extrapolations, and head cannon of many fan requiring them to look at past events through a different lens then they originally viewed them with.
Do you have other examples?
The thing with Kirk in STIII is, once he knew about the Katra, or at least the basic idea that McCoy was being influenced by Spock in some way, he would have taken him to Vulcan... Except for the fact that SpocCoy was trying to get to Genesis. Kirk didn't really understand why, but he has faith in his friends. So he risks everything to get him to Genesis.
I will never be comforted once i realized they're correct that that transporters kill you and send a duplicate somewhere else.
The duplicate is fully sentient, carries all the same memories, and the old person is destroyed (most of the time).
Yes the score to 2009 Star Trek absolutely slaps.
When he first said that, I thought, "What score? Really?" Then, not ten seconds later, that one theme started playing in my head immediately. I'd completely forgotten just how good the music was until now.
Hemmer broke my fucking heart. He became my favorite character, I excitedly told my Star Trek Adventures group, who had seen it all before me, during my marathon watch and not two fucking episodes later they killed him! My group was like "no one tell them" and I just know they were cackling at me hahaha!
He was my favourite too :( and we got the episodes a month delayed for season one over here.
I feel like if anyone was going to leave the Kelvin movies, Chekov is the easiest to write out. Throw a line in about him transferring off to serve on the Reliant, and you've already got an excuse from the original timeline as to why he isn't there. If you wanted to get extra fan points, replace him with Lt. Arex, who took his place in the Animated series, and you get a change to show off some fancy CGI too.
First comment you respond to is a belter, too. Starting off strong.
EDIT You're gonna hate my Patreon question...
Oh it's you, nice one!
I think I know why Steve doesn't like Lower Decks. He is just jealous it is canon and not the Ensign's Log. Let see how much they have in common:
- Ensigns who get into many crazy hijinks ☑
- Crazy hijinks only get more crazy and outlandish as time goes on ☑
- Not actually the "main story" of the star trek universe, but impacts the main story anyway ☑
- Convenient connections to "main" characters that serves the story ☑
- humor that is derived to being in the Star Trek universe ☑
- characters being promoted only to be demoted because of shenanigans ☑
- Cetacean Ops ☑
- Cetaceans want people to join them in the Pool ☑
- mains characters i are great friends, but still have fights ☑
- a main character that has self-destructive tendencies ☑
- a main character with self-doubt issues ☑
- Armus ☑*
- Q ☑*
- Canon ❌
And By canon I mean a the official set of Star Trek works rather than in-universe continuity of events.
*only somewhat with Q and Armus as they don't play a role in a Lower Decks story, but they do appear so it counts.
I meant to comment on the BFF episode, but I needed time to ruminate on it first.
To me, Geordi and Data's friendship is both amazing and sad. Amazing because Geordi was one of the first to recognize the humanity of a Soong-type android, and sad because... isn't it just another example of the show doing Geordi dirty? His best friend is an emotionless android. His love interest is a hologram. We never saw what happened to him in 'Genesis' but it was probably just THE WORST. At least they invite him to the poker games...
And as for Generations and introducing the battle bridge: instead of the High Seas Adventure, the promotion to lieutenant commander is a test- manually re-dock the Saucer section. Worf is in the BB with a minimal, and more importantly, novice crew, while the rest of the senior staff is on the real bridge, hands off, but waiting to intervene if needed.
Then, later [presuming we get everyone from the Nexus back to the ship] during the attack, Picard says "we need to confuse the Bird of Prey with targets, prepare to separate the ship." Then he looks to Riker who gives him a knowing smile. He turns to Kirk, "Admiral, would you like to take command of the Drive Section?"
One day I shall say something profound enough to be featured...... Ahahaha.
I want both to be honest. I want my fiction to show me a world I can take comfort in. The world is dark and gritty enough as it is, but at you can be challenged, morally, ethically, mentally, socially, without sinking into the endless rounds of misery poker that so many shows do.
Even at its darkest, Star Trek never makes me feel unclean watching it. It's always about people striving to be better.
Because the actors are friends IRL, I'm including Chekov and Sulu.
This does come down to your “bad writing” point, but the reason the Star Wars sequel movies were (in part) bad because they didn’t have a plan was due to JJ Abrams mystery box. He set up in Force awakens deliberate plot threads and mysteries with zero intention with what they meant; and tie that to a lack of a sense of what the sequel films were even about led to the unfocused nature of the trilogy. Deep Space Nine, in comparison was also made up on the fly with a few mysteries, like Odo’s origin, being left deliberately vague at the start. But the difference is Deep Space Nine has thematic intent.
All the seeds of Bashir not talking to his parents, with no greater plan, paid-off nicely as well. It really is all about knowing how to handle just-in-time plot planning, rather than having any one Right Way to write that everyone must follow.
Good point. It's way more important to have a grasp on what the thing is actually about as far as the big picture than it is to have every little plot point mapped out far in advance. The goal should be to make it _feel_ like you weren't just making it up as you went along, even though you were.
Kirk sees Worf and is like, "That guy looks just like my lawyer!"
The time travel book from Donnie Darko IS real, kinda. A 15ish page version of it was featured on a website full of secrets that launched with the movie. You can still dig it up, it contains a LOT in just a few pages.
Is it too much to ask for both, i think it should challenge us with new ideas and to open our minds. It should also cimfort us that the human spirt(for lack of a better term) can provale over hardship and see us through these challenges. I always thought that best episodes had challenges along side hope for the future.
Long time viewer, first time commenting (I think! I'm pretty sure.) Hardcore Lower Decks fan here. What do we want from you? Nothing bro, I think you're already nailing it!
Obviously, I can't genuinely speak for all the other LD fans but considering that you're clearly not the target demographic, I think you treat it pretty damned respectfully.
I don't agree with a lot of the roasting you give it - but I can't really disagree with what you call it out for, either.
It's just that with me, well - I guess I'm in the target demo, because they're not negative points for me.
For example: I really like the fact that I can rewatch it and see different in-jokes in the background every time, whereas you appear to hate the number of jokes that dynamic requires (as is your right, of course!).
My point is this:
Enterprise is still my favourite ST series after all this time, so I know what fandom mockery feels like. You don't particularly enjoy Lower Decks, but - and this is key - you don't care if others enjoy it. That's why your anti-LD quips land (for me at least) like friendly fake-tribal banter amongst fans, and not like some kind of ST Gatekeeper loser person.
I just thought that was worth mentioning. Not a lot of nuance and empathy out there nowadays. You're a legend, Steve Shives. Keep up the great work!
11:10 - case in point! I love LD but it's not exactly high art. XD
As someone who is a Men in Tights fan, I don't like Lower Decks. Only watched the DS9 episode and was like, "not my thing." I did like the crossover with Strange New Worlds, though.
I started watching your content recently and wanted to say I appreciate your work. Most videos I've seen are 3-5 years old but I'm happy to see you are still at it.
I get calling Spaceballs a great Star Wars movie, and it's also the last Mel Brooks movie that I loved. However, when I saw Men In Tights in the theater back in the day, I thought it had ONE funny line about Cary Elwes' ability to speak with an English accent, because back then I was still annoyed by Costner's attempted accent in Prince of Thieves. Now? Wow, that was just one more cheap, dumb joke that did not work.
perhaps mentor/student is a category of relationship, that warrants its own vid.
On Lower Decks, I recently watched all of it for the first time, and I had low expectations because of your commentary on the show. And while it had issues, like an excess of fan service, sped up dialogue that doesn't let moments sit, an over emphasis on comedy that doesn't always hit, etc... I found that it had a lot of good qualities. There were good story beats, good character moments, some of the comedy did actually hit well, and the core message of the show that it returns to every time is one that speaks to the more cynical tone of Picard and Discovery's early seasons. That message is one of taking joy in exploration and making an effort to help others, even when your organization might not be behind you doing it. The struggle for Mariner really embodies this, as she has trouble handling the dissonance of Starfleet's actions at times compared to what Starfleet stands for. The realization she comes to is that believing in those ideals and trying to turn them into reality are more important than being upset with the organization for not always living up to those same ideals.
In some ways this feels like commentary on American democracy, admittedly said as an outsider from Canada. When people say that they have given up hope on democracy because of the failures of the system, and so they don't even try to vote or engage, it doesn't fix anything, it just leaves the door open for people like Trump. Only by engaging with the flawed system in an attempt to live up to its ideals do you stand a chance of making those ideals real.
Sorry, long rant of me saying that while your criticism is warranted, I think Lower Decks was better than you give it credit for.
Have you ever considered doing a "comment response response"? Every time I watch a comment response video, the viewer comments and your rebuttals/expansions/retorts always provoke deeper questions about and insights into the topics discussed. I realize this could become an "Inception"-type situation (comment response response *response*?!?), but I think there could be a lively exchange between yourself and my fellow viewers.
Regardless, thank you for another wonderful video!
Does Star Trek challenge us? I'm struggling to think of an example, at least from recent Trek. It's mainly playing the greatest hits (which are, indeed, great hits). But the closest it's come to challenging me recently (though I admit to not watching Discovery, so cannot comment on that) is SNW's court episode, which I found extremely frustrating due to a total unwillingness to treat genetic engineering as distinct from race.
So, I really would have been interested in a broader examination of Illyrian history and culture (really, a 100% voluntary uptake on genetic engineering? No religious groups that object? No ugly political groups complaining about it corrupting the 'purity of the Illyrian form'? No 'back-to-nature' groups refusing altogether? I feel about that about the same way you feel about Ferengi 'never' engaging in slavery--sure, the writers are in charge of what happens in their universe, but come on), but instead it's just treated as a racism/immigration allegory. Now, would any ugly history justify denying Number One her rightful place as Number One? Of course not, but make it an actual conversation/argument, especially since the audience knows that the ban on genetic engineering is not going to be overturned (due to Bashir).
As a racism/immigration allegory it works fine, but especially as we move towards an era of genetic engineering...well, it's the same concern I have about a lot of the 'AI are just people' message as we move towards an era where AI is possible. I really, really hope that's true...but I am unconvinced.
10:30 Men in tights was just a fun movie to listen to when you're doing stuff around the house, it's just a fun parody. Captain Picard as King Richard, chefs kiss. Now Prince of Thieves, a good movie with a great cast. I mean after Die Hard who else would you want for the Sheriff of Nottingham? The movie score sells the whole vibe too.
The funny thing is all these light jabs you throw at Lower Decks might end up making me watch it just to see if they're deserved ;P
There are worse ways to spend 30 minutes.
Voyager fan here. Yeah, Star Trek can be challenging.
Executives not caring about what is being made is very accurate. There was a story about, I think Ronald D. Moore, who worked on a lot of Star Trek shows, where he was pitching an episode. Knowing that he was speaking to executives who knew nothing about Star Trek, he made a point to talk about how a mine would be stuck to the hull of the ship (I think Voyager?), what the dramatic highs and lows would be, where the action would take place, etc. At the end, an executive raised a hand and asked "What's a hull?"
Interesting. Out of the 3 SW sequels, I also like The Last Jedi the most. It is not perfect, but it is good and for me, has a lot of Star Wars feeling.
It's not great, but at least it has some interesting ideas about The Jedi.
So that's something.
@@alanpennie8013 and it manages to make the Force feel like it did in episodes IV and V again, rather than all systematised and codified.
I loved the idea that the ways the Republic Jedi measured the Force was just one way out of many, and the shot of the servant boy summoning a broom like it's the most natural thing in the world. And Yoda having to drill it into Luke's head felt like a direct allegory to certain fans. But I guess that either went over their head or they decided it was insulting.
(The SACRED JEDI TEX)
@@kaitlyn__L
I really liked broom boy.
@@alanpennie8013 aye, he were a good lad
I'm just like you, Steve. I always think of stuff that Guinan said whenever I'm staring into my fridge at 4 AM.
Challenge us with the problems we have now, comfort us with the things we may overcome in the future.
I thought it was all about the whale's true voyage home. Saving Wales. Star Trek IV is definitely up there on the list of best trek adventures. The musical score for the voyage home is quite epic mixed with light-hearted interludes that really highlights the more comedic tones of the film. I've had it on vinyl since I was a kid, I've seen every trek film in the theater minus the first one, not borne yet. Wrath of Kahn was the first movie I saw in the theater with my dad.
About discovery being dark and about it's Star Treky values, I think on rewatching it's maybe remembered as more dark in season 1 than it actually was, the dominion war in DS9 got pretty grim at times but maybe the more jovial episodes override that a little.
Also I think the spore drive itself is a good example of Star Trek values when we're lead to believe that this ship is a bit shifty and oohhh maybe they're developing a new weapon. But when Micheal confronts the crew about it we get the line "we're not developing new ways to kill, we're developing new ways to fly" which I liked
I find your love of MST3K and hate of Lower Decks and Men In Tights highly illogical. Fascinating... and so human.
All of the "Homes" Voyaged to in A Voyage Home -- or at least all the ones I can think of:
1. Earth (23rd century) -- Kirk & co. to face the music
2. Earth (23rd century again) Kirk & co. to return to their own time.
3. Earth (20th century) -- our (the contemporary audience!) home
4. Earth (20th century) -- our literal homes, via VHS or... Betamax? This was 1986, when home video releases were a new and exciting thing, yeah? It counts! ....maybe.........
5. The new Enterprise -- NCC-1701-A
6. Kirk's role as captain, his home being the center-chair of a starship.
7. Space itself -- that's where home is, out there, exploring -- the starship itself is merely a means to that end. (Admittedly these three are all kinda-sorta the same).
8 A *new* home for the Whales, where they can live in peace (and presumably restore their species).
9. Spock finding his "home" among Kirk and the Enterprise crew -- chosen family and all that.
10. The crew itself getting to stay together permanently on the new ship, after everyone having gone their separate ways prior to TMP (and only being together in the prior movies due to temporary, special circumstances).
11. Spock finding his "home" in his own mind -- finally finding "himself" both after his death and after struggling throughout the movies, in a kind of background character arc, with the dueling sides of his upbringing, Vulcan and Human (a conflict I think we're supposed to project backwards to his appearances in TOS to explain the Kolinar Ritual thing and where he starts out in TMP) and sort of becoming the best possible version of himeslf.
Did that last one make any sense? I think it got away from me a bit -- both the thought and the sentence itself. Anyway, that's all the 'homes' I can think of in Star Trek IV. Anyone come up with any others?
About STAR TREK IV and home... Spock also voyaged home -- to his friends, and to his genuine self.
"If there are so many of you that love a movie like 'Robinhood: Men in Tights' ...That completely explains to me why so many of you also love Lower Decks." Brilliant take-down. I actually lol'd while drinking and did a spit take. Bravo, sir!
P.S. edit -- Personally, I love Lower Decks. Not as much as many of the other series, but I smile a lot when I watch it and it just feels good. That said, I hated Robinhood: MIT. I agree... it was the worst movie Mel Brooks made. Terribly unfunny and full of forced humor.
Steve's comment being as mean-spirited as Men in Tights itself was a nice touch, not gonna lie.
In regards to the Star Wars sequels not being planned out, I've realized that I feel like they *were* planned out, but just not in the way you'd typically think of. They weren't planned in the sense of having a full story arc in mind ahead of time, but rather they were planned to respond to audience reactions. The Force Awakens was a response to people not liking the prequel trilogy, The Last Jedi was a response to audiences thinking TFA was too similar to the original trilogy, and The Rise of Skywalker was a response to the internet still being on fire years later. The original trilogy wasn't "planned out" either, but it also wasn't so blatantly influenced by the mad ravings of the "fans."
It is the imagination of Science Fiction writers, which are very often a vision of goodness or good versus evil that inspire scientists and engineers, that in turn make the technologies of Science Fiction a reality. Thank you SF writers and all writers of books.
I had been puzzled by how the right wing thought Star Trek "went woke" when they had always progressive. Steve pointing out that the focus of the "bad" behavior having been on the aliens and "others" in the old shows and had turned to our heroes/ourselves in the newer shows gave me a better understanding. Some people apparently view introspection as a flaw rather than a feature.
I appreciate your insightful prodding of my latent complaints...
1 - Tuvix- I wish there had been some reference to the TNG episode 'second chances', as in Torres asking "couldn't we replicate the accident that replicated William Riker?"
2- Discovery - I still can't accept that Burnham didn't receive an earlier commendation for trying to forestall the war, since following Sarek's advice would have saved millions of lives. I felt cheated at the end when the original plan to destroy Chronos was aborted. We saw the destruction of Earth in the Ent episode Twight, saw the destruction of Romulus and Vulcan in the 2009 movie, but Chronos was spared after all the destruction the Klingons inflicted on Federation assets... not acceptable! Fortunately the series significantly improved...
Ideally, both: Balance of Terror; Journey to Babel; the Kira-Odo relationship developing in the context to a very well presented and realistic war story . . . .
I think that the most important voyage home in The Voyage home was Spock's voyage home, as his home is with Kirk and the rest of the his friends on the crew. The Earth and the ship are also 'Home', but not their most important one.
Funny cause I just came to TH-cam because I was watching the blight episodes and I turned it off just before they all start screaming. I didn't want to be challenged right now apparently so I came to you for comfort
I'm not sure that people think Sci Fi is seen as a harder sci fi than it is. I think people WANT it to be, they see it as more 'prophetic if we work hard enough' which some of it might be (like iPads and other tablets, and touch screens) but other parts might not be like warp/alcubierre drives, and teleportation).
I went to see Men In Tights in the theatre when it came out... I walked out before the end.
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