Almost Famous: The Cruelty of the Music Business
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ส.ค. 2020
- In this episode I tell the story of Cameron Crowe meeting the small town band I Nine. It's a step by step guide on how record labels used to destroy bands careers.
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Let's take a moment to appreciate the real hero here, Ken.
The guy bugged Rick for three months until he listened to the band xD
@@Halliday7895 C'mon, they had musical chops. How does the cellist work with Chris Cornell if he isn't any good?
And also understand when Rick will ever get involved in any project ($$$)
@@Halliday7895 You realize that all the men that heard the live CD did not see the young girl and went by her vocal ability only and songs that were recorded. Your demonstrating ignorance when it comes to the production side of hearing talent
EXACTLY!!! The initial bottleneck was Rick Beato.
so many parts of this reminded me of my band's story. Even the "hey check out this band" for 2 months and then finally when we played a sold out gig he was at (to see a different band) and was like "I saw this band the other night have you heard of them?" and the engineer that had our demo was like "THIS IS THAT BAND I WAS TRYING TO TELL YOU ABOUT"
I can’t imagine how much great music is just “shelved” somewhere and how many great bands were ruined because of labels.
Was thinking the same thing. It’s hard to find great music anymore.
@@Heyjonjohnson It is actually _way_ easier than it was before the ubiquity of the Internet.
I don't know if my band was great, but we were definitely destroyed by our label. I hear this kind of story, with variations, all the time in Nashville.
@@Heyjonjohnson Bandcamp is good...
I stumbled across a great band a few years ago. Everything Everything. My favorite band of the last 10 years
A familiar story. My son was in a band in 2008, all in their teens and at music school. They were really on to something, great musicians, awesome original songs and an amazing young lady on vocals. The school, as always, invited UK label reps to come and review its talent - my son's band rehearsed like crazy, then gave a flawless presentation to the besuited ones. A week later one label privately approached the singer, offered her £10K NOT to record with the band (or anyone else), but to sit tight while they decided how to launch her solo career. She was eighteen - she took the money. It got ugly, the band fell apart, good friends fell out for keeps. Upshot: none of them got a damn thing, including the singer (aside from the 10K...) The 'moment' had been there, the luck had been there, the time was right... and a coupla dreary guys in suits killed it dead.
To be honest, in your story it sounds like the singer screwed it up for everyone, rather than the "suits". If she hadn't been so greedy, and just sat tight, then maybe the band could have been picked up some other time by a label.
@@steves1015 What 18 year old is not going to get all starry eyed if suits approach them saying " we can make you a star " here is $10,000 to ,hold you over until we do " ?.
When the band fell apart that quickly it was useless. Sorry. Great bands aren't just defined by playing well. Most need to go through a lot of downs do succeed. In your story they stumbled over the first pebble thrown into their way.
Sing it with me now 'if you're famous and you know it sack the band'
@@1allstarman you mean which 18 year old girl, right?
and why am I now thinking about onlyfans moron-girls?
Rick is certainly a musical black belt, but also a master story-teller.
I stumbled across R. Beato a year ago and have been a fan ever since. I never fail to mention [His detailed break down of music theory as well as the candid conversation] to my friends who live & die for music and everything that goes with it...
I think he just shares his experiences and (thankfully) his musical knowledge.. Tells it like it is. 👍
well said Curtis!
and he is veritably a star in his own right.
Beats me that a record label signs a band because they love what it's doing, and then proceeds to turn the band into something else entirely.
It's like buying a Gibson Les Paul because you love the look and the sound, and then taking out the humbuckers, sticking in one single coil at the neck while leaving the bridge an empty route, replacing the fingerboard with maple, bypassing the tone controls and spraying the body a different colour. WTF did yo buy a Les Paul for in the first place?
Yeah, it makes no sense. At least the A&R guy got fired, so, some redemption there. What a putz.
Because those record label guys see artists' brilliance and talent merely as "potential", something that needs to be polished, reshaped, adapted to what "people actually want/buy".
And of course, they consider themselves as experts in "transforming" artists into... that.
If they thought for a second that talent needs to be left alone so that everyone else can appreciate it, they'd be questioning the very nature of their freaking job. And that cannot happen. They are the experts after all.
@@LudvikM Yep, that's pretty much it. As a writer, I can definitely see how awesome it'd be to have good performers with a particular sound to write for, great relationships have existed this way, some writers get basically all control, other cases the performers get to interpret it to a higher degree, all these approaches are great... If you're all in agreement.
Not being a clueless suit always helps too, of course. The arrogance is real considering how great their own writing sounded to me.
Baked maple,.... it’s baked maple
Except they don't love them for what they're doing. They see something they can repackage and make money off of.
NEVER leave a Rick Beato video, story, before the ending. It ALWAYS pays off.
Nailed it lol
The music industry reminds me of a story that my father always told me about a shoe company in Australia. The owner had a gut feeling that he could greatly expand his market to the Fiji Islands. So, not wanting to lose his number one salesman, he sent his number two guy to Fiji to try and sell his line of shoes. The salesman called the owner in a couple of weeks and said “..send me a ticket home, they don’t wear shoes here in Fiji”. The owner sent him a ticket and he returned. A few months later the owner decided that he was going to give it one last shot but this time he decided to take a bigger risk and sent his number one salesman to Fiji. A couple of weeks later he got a call from his number one guy....wow, they don’t wear shoes here in Fiji, send my wife and kids, we’ll be here for the next few years, we’re gonna make a fortune!!
In my opinion the record industry is full of number two guys
Spoiler: The #1 sales guy didn't manage to convince Fijians to wear shoes, he managed to convince the company owner to send the #1 sales guy's entire family on a multi-year vacation while he "tried to build a market presence". Dude probably wore nice shoes on the beach so everyone else there could see them (it's marketing, honest!) -- a small price to pay to live in Fiji for a few years.
@@deusexaethera News Flash: Fijians wear shoes. 😎
@@trevorjohnson145 They do now
great story
@@bazza2540 Touche :-)
This happened to me 4 times from the late 60’s to the late 80’s.
4 great bands. Albums were done.
Then it just -- went away.
4 times.
It’s hurt so badly. You go from being on top to being nothing.
I couldn’t get past the secretary at Warner bros suddenly.
Suddenly I was nothing.
You go from this great high to this Way Low low.
I was at a Party where I was hanging out with Eric Clapton.
Two days later -- nothing.
It was painful cause so many
A@R people lied to us so much.
I ended up working clubs and teaching guitar for the rest of my life.
I’ve had a great life as a working musician and I have no regrets.
But I often how different my life would have been lol.
Wow where I can I find your music?
You'd probably be one of those miserable people on "Behind the Music". Happy endings seem rare....
Did you have any groupie sex? That would have been my primary reason for joining a band tbh
Sounds like a musical version of "Somebody Saved Me" by Pete Townshend. Please check out that record if you haven't.
I would love to hear some stories about your time. Hanging out at a party with Clapton is pretty damn sweet. What players did you get to jam with?
Hunter Thompson said it best,
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side,,,"
Thanks Mr. Beato,,,
While I find these sort of "poetic dramatizations" a little over the top most of the time - frankly, that line is disgustingly scary accurate. It couldn't be an exaggeration if Thompson wanted it to be, the music industry must be one of the most vile still in existence. They literally destroy people's lives and don't even give it a second thought
Yeah, well, f them. I'm releasing material and if I ever get into any negotiations, they aren't going to take my terms anyway. Music should be LEASED by copyright owners to labels ONLY, per release, with guards against shelving material. The song is done. You either want to distribute it or not, and the money will come to me, and I'll pay your share out of it. Of course, no sheisters will ever agree to that. BTW, F Scooter Braun.
LOL brilliant and so so true.
Rob Namowicz pretty sure the original Thompson quote referred to the television business. Of course you can adapt it to lots of different businesses and it’s just as accurate.
Just so you are aware ... Hunter S Thompson was never in the music business, he was in the Newspaper Publishing business and THAT is where the quote is from. Someone saw the similarity with the music business and adapted his quote.
Just in case anyone else was wondering, A&R means Artists and Repertoire. Talent scouts in other words.
Thanks for that.. :)
Or leaches for short.
@@ddalejandroo Even better.
Thanks for that.. jargon for me.Sounds like A&W.. wtf a fast food chain?Initially what I am thinking hearing this A&R. 🇵🇭😂
A & R stands for Um and R. If you don't make a wrong decision, you get your bonus and promotion.
This story hits close to home. Minus the Cameron Crowe Clive Davis names this is exactly what happened to my band after we signed to RCA records in the early 80s.
A friend's band got $100K from RCA to record a demo album. They were good, but instead of doing what was asked, they flew all over the world, trying out producers and different studios and returned with a hodge podge of unmixed songs and had spent all of the money and time. They were dropped almost 2 years after being asked a single task, make a demo. The singer songwriter a decade later is still playing cafes with a 10 person audience. Opportunities lost.
Rick,I don't know if you'll ever read this,but this crap is what kept me out of the "Music Business" and kept me, utterly without regret,a Zoo Night watchman for thirty years. I led a lower-middle class life with a job that fit me like a hand in glove. My animals turned me into a Buddhist,and I pursued Art and Music with no commercial concerns. It is up to the Fates now whether or not my works outlive me. This is not to say I'm not in admiration of your achievements (your guitar collection is awesome),but life is bigger than anything we can conceive of. 🕯️
I just love how you promote the little people out there who really deserve it. You're one of the people I'm unlikely to ever meet in real life, but I consider you a true mentor.
Yiiikes.
i mean profit is good but its secondary to the music the music is what matters
Fascinating. As someone who played in bands in the 90s and was signed briefly to a deal only to see it fall apart, I can tell you that this story has been repeated many, many times over the years. Frank Zappa was right; labels (and the records they produced) were better when the old suits were in charge, because they knew they didn't know anything about the "new music" and let the artists alone. So long as they made money, they didn't care. Once the hipsters took over in the 70s, though, they thought they knew better and tried to dabble in it, which ruined many a great band.
I saw that tape of Zappa saying that; words of wisdom from a man who is sorely, gravely missed.
And it wasn't only music. Monty Python were given a show by people who had no idea what they were doing and so they basically let them do whatever they wanted. That would never have happened nowadays.
gringochucha I remember reading that too. Kudos to the Beeb for realizing they should just get out of the way.
@@kennethlatham3133 yes i saw this on you tube about experimental music this spread down to the mainstream thats why so much MOR pop of the 50s/60 was so good and stands up today even with the youngsters of today that sort of experimental idea is unknown nowadays
you can't honestly think this is happening because they think they can make BETTER music. music is free, fame is not. You are in control of your musical destiny, if you chose to be. But you are not in control of your economical destiny via the music you create. It is not coincidence that music is about sex and drugs first and foremost. They control the rolemodels of the youth in order to control the youth. It's not conspiracy theory, because it is a fact that they control promotion, what is being put out and who produces it. And they decide to promote bad role-models, put them on TV, Radio and have the best producers record it, the best mixers mix it and the best mastering engineers master it. And if the artists are not able or willing to write something "comercial" they will hire somebody who will and have the artist sing it anyway. You will not get a big deal promoting world peace, christian values and "fight the system"-values.. no matter wether you are patient or not.. it will not happen. You may get a small deal somewhere. But even then: Nobody is perfect, but if your message is GOOD they will make YOU look bad. Just look at what happened to Michael Jackson for instance (Black or White, They don't care about us)
"Almost Famous" shows exactly the way the music scene was in 1973 when I was 15 going on 16. Yes, I lived it, and it was truly an awesome time to be alive. Thank you Cameron Crowe.
The side of this story involving the A&R guy reminded me of an episode from my own past. I was doing session work, mostly as a woodwind player (saxes, flutes) and went to a studio to be part of a jingle production for a high-end client. I waited in the control room while the rhythm section (piano, bass, guitar, drums) started recording. These guys were all top-tier session players and they did the first take letter-perfect. Now, the advertising agency who booked the session had sent a "producer" to oversee the session. This was fairly common practice, mainly so the musicians wouldn't pad their hourly rate by dragging their heels. The producer on this session was a young wanker who was really full of himself but didn't have a clue what happens in a recording studio, or much knowledge of music in general. He gets on the talk-back mic and says "guys, that was really good, really good, but I'm not hearing magic; we need to have magic in this, please give me some magic". The musicians do an eye roll but whatever, they're getting paid. They run it again, perfectly, and the same thing happens - the "producer" is not hearing "magic" and wants there to be "magic" in it. They run it again with the same results.
Finally, they've had enough and on the fourth take at 0:30 of the 1 minute piece, the drummer reaches up, pulls down his overhead mic, and says "Abra-fucking-cadabra", then pushes the mic back up and finishes the take. Well..... there's your "magic"! The producer slunk out as we all laughed ourselves silly.
I heard a similar story from Europe, where the "producer" asked: who did that?
I wrote copy for commercials and they did that to us too. Picked it apart word for word, note for note and had no idea how it’s done.
Brilliant!
We need more cowbell! Lol
Years ago I decided to avoid the music industry like a plague. The downside: I’ll never “make it.” The upside: I can do literally whatever I want musically for literally however long it gives me pleasure to do it, or until I’m no longer here. I have yet to regret that decision.
You can make it like Lil Nas X. The big thing that labels can do that most artists can't do is promote themselves. Those that can create their own hype can do well even though they aren't famous. Being a multi million dollar live act that isn't well known is not that rare.
@@orlock20 You need a significant audience to be a multi million dollar act. To get that audience you obviously need to be well known. So what exactly do you mean by your last statement?
You've just described me. Tired of playing nightclubs and cover tunes, and dealing with drunk or drugged musicians, I struck out on my own.
I play such a strange amalgamation of genres..I am way beyond 'unmarketable'....which is perfectly great for me.
I play what I want and only what pleases me. I've never been happier playing music!
@@OU81TWO 200 people at $20 a ticket playing 100 shows a year is $400,000. per year. In 10 years, that's $4 million. add in $100,000 in merchandise per year and the total is $5 million in 10 years.
@@orlock20 Yeah but you're not counting expenses. A 200 seat venue rental is probably $1500 per night if not more. Then you have to pay the sound guys, equipment, the rest of your band, etc. The $4K you make from 1 show is gross revenue. More than half is gone just for expenses. If you can pull off that many shows in a year it's still pretty good but you're far from a multi million dollar act. When they say "multi million" they mean over the course of a year. In ten years I made $1.4M at my job. That doesn't make me a millionaire.
Rick's studio is his fireplace for telling stories in front of.
And this place is haunted by a mighty red SG which sometimes appears and vanishes in the background :-)
The lighting is beautiful
I would be willing to bet that this is one of ricks most popular videos because demographically speaking a high percentage of his viewers are musicians who have experienced similar scenarios
Before I was a photographer, I was a professional musician playing rhythm guitar (6 12 acoustic & electric) in many bands before I joined a band back in the late '80's, and we became 'almost famous.' Don't even get me started on record labels back them.
We toured all over the U.S. & opening for some of the biggest hair bands of the day. We performed in front of thousands of people at each venue. We had one tour bus for the entire band and all our gear, compared to the 'headliners' who had multiple tour buses and huge trucks transporting their gear. By the way, our tour bus was vintage '70's age, but we love it anyway. It was our home away from home.
We constantly heard "Don't worry, the record label is picking up the tab!" And the young idiots we were, we believed them. In fact, we were picking up the tab. All of our profits were paying for hotels, food, transportation (our bus) and anything else we needed while on tour. In the end, we made nothing, but the record company still made money off of us. By summer of '93, the pressure finally got to us. We did our final show on July 10, 1993 in Salt Lake City, Utah. But the writing was on the wall. We, like many other hard rock / heavy metal bands, blamed Nirvana. Times were changing and grunge was coming in & our style of music was no longer in style. It was a lot of hard work, lots of pressure to write songs that could play on the radio, and tour to promote these songs, but the kids weren't showing up in the numbers like they used too. Dylan said it best: "Times, they are a changing."
It took 15 years and a TV actress friend of mine to get me playing not only guitar again, but in front of people. I am not a "great" guitar player, but I hang out at my local Guitar Center for a couple of hours on a Saturday, playing one of their acoustic guitars. To some of the other guitar players around, I get them excited, one guy had chills listening to me, and they all want to play along with me. I've even had little kids watching me play "Hear Comes the Sun" and singing along with me. How they know the song, beats me, but it still warms my heart.
By the way, that band I was in, we played all original music. And to this day, I have not played one of our songs since July 1993. I just don't want to.
Maybe one day I will...
Sorry to hear that the bad experience soured you on your band's music. And the silver lining appears to be that least you have a story to tell.
@@chriscampbell9191 It's Ok. I'm friends with a guy name Kirk. We jammed and did a few gigs several weeks ago. He also doesn't play any music from the band he was in. What band? He was the lead guitar player for Billy Squier.
Loved reading about your experience in the music industry. Too bad it didn't work out for you, but it seems like you lots if stories to tell.
Hey, you made it farther than most musicians do. Have a thought for those of us who missed the boat completely.
That hair band scene was headed for a fall since the rise of Metallica, because *no one respected it*. The industry just wanted to make money with it. The press hated it, and for good reason. Some fans hated it, some for good reasons and some for bad ones. It had a solid audience, but even they probably got tired of the lack of change, and I think after a while it wasn't picking up new fans. It needed to change, and no one was willing to figure out how to change it while still preserving what made it attractive--not so hard a problem, it seems to me, but then again, *no one respected it*. The fact that people hung on so long is actually a testament to how powerful the *idea* of it was. At the same time, the fact that there wasn't a "second division" on the indie-label level probably did it in as much as anything else. It's those labels that keep a scene alive after it loses the Mandate of Music-Biz Heaven, but everyone in the scene had stars in their eyes. (The same thing happened to progressive rock in the '70s, it seems.)
For all that, it doesn't seem that having a stylistic turnover didn't really fix the problems with the industry, because, well, *why would it*?
What was the name of the band?
The Corporatization of music to translate to “sales” has been hindering artists for decades.
Oy Vey! Cool it with the anti-Semitism!
Well, unless the artists are willing to work for free, there has to be some kind of monetization.
It does not hinder REAL artists. Real artists don't sign shitty record deals chasing money & fame. It just hinders the wannabe rockstars.
As a small musician/artist you always dream about being signed etc., but then you realize all the shady stuff and begin to feel thankful that social media gives you an opportunity to be who you are. Thank you for this story Rick and to all my fellow musicians: never give up and I wish you nothing but best!
It is fantastic there's somebody that spots how it is
Makes you.not want to sign to a label ever.
a lot of times it can be a blessing in disguise as it seems it was your case. look how two of my favorite musicians ever ended, Kurt and Layne. all that wonderful talented now gone.
@@gissellest333 drugs killed them not record labels.
@@beatlesrgear Curt was known to be struggling with addiction and surely The Hole (Courtney) was no help. Curt was over rated then and even more so now.
This is exactly why all those independant labels were popping up in the 80'd and 90's. Bands at that time knew that signing to a major was a death sentence for your band.
And then the major labels imitated with their own "Indie" labels to give the appearance of the authentic indies. They are ruthless pricks.
The independent labels were just as bad.
Nirvana singed with Geffen
@@ChromaticHarp and 'selling out' had a pretty big impact on their lead singer didn't it.
She has a special voice, a producer's voice. No matter what you put into the mix, her voice is what you notice. Sometimes you can be too good, and that's the reason you don't make it. Just think of how many well-established, influential performers that she makes sound average.
Brilliant comment. Too good and nobodies slave or slut. The music business has never signed the best talent. It's signed the best talent that would play it's game. And as soon as they wake up and don't want to play that game anymore they become a target.
@@ltjjenkins more or less
@@ltjjenkinsego or talent. You sound like you don't like women
This is exactly why I’m perfectly happy to sit in my home studio and record just what I want to and listen all by myself.
Even The Beatles had problems like this, and from the one person we'd least expect it: Brian Epstein. Epstein came to the studio one day with one of his boyfriends. The Beatles were on the other side of the glass recording. Brian pressed the intercom button and started to tell them what they should do with the song. Within twenty seconds John Lennon screamed. 'Shut the fuck up Brian. We do the music. You count the money.' Epstein literally jolted backwards like he'd been hit with an electric shock and he never dared make any more suggestions ever again. You have to be very aggressive to go where you want to go in this world.
I would call it assertion, not aggression, although that's all up to subjective interpretation. There's plenty of times in this world when being passive is actually much more beneficial--at least according to a lot of Eastern philosophy.
You do that and look what happened to Lennon..
Moral: never trust an Epstein
it should be "HEY DUDE" not "Hey Jude"
@@Kirkshelton i saw that movie too. Great flick
Almost famous is still one of my favorite movies. Makes me feel nostalgia for a time period I didn't even live through lol.
This is one reason why I love and respect Prince so much.
He changed his name to an unpronouncable sign and succeeded in getting out of a major record label with Warner Brothers. I played professionally for decades. I have had a booking agent break up one of my bands because he wanted to keep our female lead singer on his top circuit when we were just starting to think about recording. It's very difficult for an artist to maintain some control over their art when some control freaks with a lot of money have signed a contract with your band. I love to play music live and record.I am a singer and a songwriter. But I would rather just hit it small than hit it big. Unless it was under the right circumstances. I'm sure that if a major label wanted to sign with a band I was in, I would refuse to negotiate without an attorney. And through the process of negotiating, I would probably get kicked out of the band for not kissing ass. This story about i9 breaks my heart.
They did all the work to get where they were. And all it took was one idiot to destroy everything they had worked for. It's not that I don't have any respect for authority, or that I am incapable of taking constructive criticism. I will take a job and do as I'm told.
But if I create a project with a group of individuals who bust their asses in order to build a following, then I don't want one guy who owns a record company, or a booking agency to destroy everything we have worked for.
So what if all of Ricks 1.7 million subscribers all bought “Heavy Weighs the King” debut album and they break all kinds of records for first week sales... it would be such justice after the terrible ordeal they went through in this video!
I would buy their album. I love bands like them. That have a folksy touch to them. Like the band Midlake.
I'm in.
@@Halliday7895 Around here it's guitar and singers, but maybe Mozart folk? 😑
I love this idea. As soon as it’s out imma buy it.
@@Halliday7895 Banjos and fiddles are bluegrass. Folk music is like Gordon Lightfoot, Neil Young and Buffalo Springfield. That's what I was referring to.
"An artist can cut an album without a record label. A record label can not make a record without an artist." D.J Jazzy Jeff.
I'm thinking they have, many times.
Don’t mention Milli Vanilli to DJ Jazzy Jeff, then!
SID - ever heard The Art Of Noise? You’ll love “Close To The Edit”.
That is actually not true though. Has not been true for a long ass time. Multiple People on the rock charts are literally not artists. There is a successful company out there who makes "influencer" music and it is completely shitting all over big bands.
So they'll use ANYONE to make a product talent or no.
I'm sure this sort of thing has happened a million times, but it reminded me immediately of Lone Justice: genre busting band built around the astonishing talent of a young female vocalist captures the imagination of the entire industry, signs a record deal and immediately has everything that made them great sucked out of them by the idiots at the label. Lone Justice was around 1985, this story is about 2005. I wonder what great artists are being destroyed as we speak.
Love those guys. Not afraid to stick it in.
RealGone Kid by Deacon Blue is about the performance of Maria McKee at a concert Ricky Ross attended.
ways to be wicked was a great song. tom petty wrote it.
Maria McKee… no one can sing like her
It happened to a guy I grew up with. His band eventually got to open for some very big names, but he was never allowed to make it to the top. It was too bad - they were a great band.
“One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity.” Moral of the story is don’t be in a Rush to get signed and lose control of your musical destiny.
don't be in a RUSH. I get it!
John L - I see what you did there!
Lol good quote
Sometimes you don't know what's a bad deal until the ink has dried...
Darryl Hall said the music business operates more like organized crime.
True story this:
Back in the early 2000's i was in an indie band from Manchester (UK), we were the support act for Ian Brown. also did some supports for Happy Mondays. Well we got offered a development deal from parlophone records, on one condition, The A&R guy wanted us to sack the singer and replace him with a vocalist of his choice. The problem was, our singer was my Brother. So you can imagine what that conversation was like. Our rehearsal room was the top floor of a huge mill in Ancoats Manchester, And the A&R guy turned up to a rehearsal...Well my brother had him half dangling from the fire escape, with a good 60ft drop down, pretty sure he pissed his pants. We never got the development deal. I do still wonder what the other singer he had in mind was like though :) The End.
That story put a smile on my face. Shitty A&R guys getting their just desserts
Do you think with hindsight you should have done what he asked and made millions etc ?!
@@scatcatcnut Ha maybe. The making millions would have been unlikely though. It was only a development deal we were offered.
@@JJ180 A&R dude should have dangled a bigger carrot than a development deal. Maybe then he would't have been dangling!
Was your rehearsal room in the Beehive Mill on Jersey Street (aka Sankeys Soap) by any chance? I remember dragging my bass amp up six flights of stairs on several occasions when the lift wasn't working. I think the company that rented the rooms out was called Big Fish.
In their Rock n Roll HOF acceptance speech Bono thanked Chris Blackwell of Island Records for having the faith in U2 to allow them to get past their sophomore album to make War and so on. He cautioned that without that faith there would have been no U2 as we know them and that says a lot.
Thankfully Island Records didn’t let it turn into just an industry of cool…Almost Famous is amongst my very favorite movies ever.
Chri Blackwell was a hell of a record exe...he never liked U2 but He saw great energy in the band. So he kept them on Island Records.
Coincidentally I watched Almost Famous earlier this evening on Prime. Think it was about the 8 or 10th time I've seen it since it first came out. I was 16 in 73 and every damn album in that movie was in my collection. Lived it and loved it.
I just bought “Heavy Weighs the King - A Star in the Sky” and lovin’ it. Everyone should do the same to support these artists. Amazing.
Yeah those demos were really amazing. The singer has great sustain and tone in her voice and the band sounds great behind her. I agree that they people should support them. I feel like if all those demos were recorded as is, that would of became a well known and remembered record.
Thank you for supporting these artists by buying their music 👏👏👏
What a scary story....Never in my career as a major label A&R executive would I meddle with a band like that although, I did see it happen all the time..on a side note, my very first position in A&R was working for Clive Davis who I found unable to understand any sort of music except manufactured pop...oh well
It’s kinda strange that about Clive Davis, the guy signed Aerosmith in 1971, I mean, he sure understands what is pop and what is not...
And he created Arista, which wasn’t exactly pop commercial music
@@JulioLeonFandinho He might've taken credit But, trust me he did not sign most of the acts he claims..
My first career was as a stagehand, and I was once (1994?) on a gig at the Westin hotel in Seattle for the annual meeting of the Bertelsmann Music Group (BMG) - I was a follow-spot operator at the back of the room. After the BMG bigwigs spent some time bloviating, the next couple of days were presentations from the label execs, presenting their new talent (Dave Matthews Band was one of the talent.) Clive Davis was due to present for Arista records in the morning session one day, and I the evening before, I overheard the BMG employees saying things like "don't forget a sweater," and "do you think housekeeping will freak out if I bring the blanket from my room down to the ballroom tomorrow?" I eventually asked one of them why they were expecting cold (it was summer in Seattle) and they told me "Clive likes it cold; his staff arranges with the building engineers to have the A/C on 'full-arctic-blast' whenever he presents." And so it was. Heeding the employees' warnings, I packed my ski gear for the day of Clive's presentation, and I needed it. All the BMG employees showed up in winter clothes, many of them also with the blankets off of their hotel beds, and we all sat/stood shivering while Clive presented for three hours. It was one of the most naked and pointless power displays I've ever seen.
@@miknrene Not surprising..he kept his office the same way...working there from 1985-1987 was the most toxic environment I had ever experienced..from there I went to Epic where I stayed for the next 13 years..
I wish I could tell that to Michael Caplan. Or Danny Goldberg.😥😠😡
"Come in here dear boy have a cigar
You're gonna go far, you're gonna fly high
You're never gonna die
You're gonna make it if you try
They're gonna love you
Well I've always had a deep respect
And I mean that most sincerely
The band is just fantastic
That is really what I think
Oh by the way, which one's Pink?
And did we tell you the name of the game, boy?
We call it Riding the Gravy Train..."
That rings so true here... very fitting.
Boyyyyy
kingsxkids , May be Brian
@Zizzi's Genetics Is WHAT some type of gay slur?
@Zizzi's Genetics pink Floyd cigar
“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”
― Hunter S. Thompson
Damn, never heard that one before.
West Other +
..." Buy the ticket
take the ride..
Hunter is not dead, his ghost is out there screaming at us to keep your hands on the wheel and watch out for those bats.
" Oh, you mean the guy that was always whacked out on drugs? No, I mean the writer who would kick your consciousness with his lucidity.
Long live the ghost, long live the Brown
Buffalo
I knew somebody would post that quote.
Tangentially related: The Dead were in a meeting with Clive Davis. (Talk about incompatible.) Robert Hunter passed a paper around that said "Siva Devil C."
Also tangentially related: When Pariah signed with Geffen in the 80's, Geffen sank all their resources into promoting Guns N' Roses. They let Pariah's "To Mock A Killing Bird" languish.
Gotta love Hunter. He certainly got straight to the point.......
yeah, we know the quote ...... Its only been passed along like a million times since he said it.
Rick is a treasure for using his platform to share things like this.
Is that live performance by I9 available anywhere? Sounds like you may have it Rick. Release it and take my money.
Rick should write a book about the non theory side of music.
Would be very Bourdain. Unvarnished truth.
Pink Floyd- “Welcome to the Machine”
or "Have a Cigar" ;).
Welcome to hypocrisy!
@@drewjohnson4794 You're nuts.. Just talkin' out of your ass
The way i see it they are all happily part of the machine mor now.
@@drewjohnson4794 true! an idiot who talks non-sense, who should stick too music and close his mouth
I've mostly been a sideman throughout my 30+ year career. I've been a part of some great bands to see them meddled with and their art diluted by label people who clearly have no idea what they're talking about.
It's so strange that the artform I love is controlled by a business that I hate.
"Chews" muscle their way in
they don't control it anymore
@@whoamyou yes they do...radio is still king
@@RikLeedsMusic.77 TikTok is becoming king.
and as a bonus, we heard of how you met Nancy, which was mentioned, but not expanded upon in the "20 greatest acoustic intros" video
Like or Dislike: Like. Rick not only has great stories, he knows how to deliver them. Could totally take up a career as a public speaker.
The way I see it he IS a public speaker, and doing well.
Or Henry Rollins And rick opens for him a spoken word duet
I feel for you guys who came THIS close. I really do. In other videos I made mention of my 7 years in radio and how I learned a lot about the music biz. Like, a lot. But the one thing I learned, aside from having your own publishing and label (to keep your masters), you need to have someone in your corner who can lead you into the minefield and isn't afraid to get dirty. And it's not unheard of if a band's manager uses their hands and speaks calmly to make sure a balloon head like that A&R guy left the band alone and exited stage left from the control room. And side-note: Anyone can be a A&R rep - all you have to do is be able to fog a mirror.
But seriously. What would that guy do? Go cry to Clive? The label signed the same deal. Are they gonna back out of that nice advance and studio time they gave the band? Nope. Those songwriters? They do that for a living, and that's fine but - no . "Sorry, we have our songs. Songs you like. Songs we like. Now get the fuck out or we're gonna file for bankruptcy and sign elsewhere," is what I would say.
All in all it's about protecting what you have before you start letting people poke their fingers in your pie, and having someone in your corner who isn't afraid to tell someone to go pound sand. A band is a family - manager included. And to protect that family it's perfectly fine to swat a fly with a sledgehammer.
Such a heartbreaking story. Why people can't let artists be artists rather than trying to mold them to something else is beyond me.
Labels are a relic of a bygone age, where production and publishing were actually expensive, and required the investment of a label for a band to actually "make it big". We're in the digital age now. Bands can easily produce and publish by themselves, with relatively little capital investment. Labels have no place in modern music, and need to die the death they so rightfully earned for themselves over decades of exploiting great musicians for their own profit.
Once most recording artists find out a way to successfully market and promote their music, labels will be obsolete.
There all going indi
The other side of that though is accepting lots of people making an acceptable living rather than the old days of a few making everything and the rest making nothing.
Well said!
This is true to some degree but not completely true. There's still huge benefits in having access to a proper studio and help from pros with mixing and producing, and not to say the least, having time, everybody has to make a living. In the 90's, before the death of record sales, labels could afford and did take a chance on unsigned bands or bands signed to smaller labels, giving them cash, time, and creative freedom (to some extent). Having such aid can really make a difference, especially for artists or bands that aren't very driven when it comes to marketing themselves or being productive in terms of releasing music. And this was also true for a great number of established, semi-popular bands, who maybe wouldn't kept going in today's music industry. On the other hand, this positive effect from labels doesn't exist today since they don't have that money anymore, and the bands today who get the things mentioned above are the ones who could already afford it.
Dude, Rick, I'm loving the couple "story time with uncle rick" things. The brutal one about your boy Johnny D, and now this. It's awesome. I would love a series of these. You've been in the biz for so long, I'm sure you have a million amazing stories. I'll bet you think you haven't done anything super interesting, but I'm sure you have had lunches cooler than most people whole life. Thank you for sharing, I'm definitely checking out I9? Eye9? I'll figure it out.
Try on I Nine
Yep.
It’s right there in the video, in text, on screen 👍
Yeah Rick, Tell Us a Story with a Fake Beard And Corn Cob Pipe…… You Know The Kind that Starts, "Sonny….."
@@sheilaswegler4859 what kinda bus? give us a link, Sheila!
What a great story....pulled out the CD of Elizabethtown soundtrack and sure enough "Same in Any Language" Produced by Rick Beato. Always thought that was a great song.
Here’s my music business story:
After I got a bit of BBC Introducing radio play locally in the UK and after a few years doing the open Mics in my Home City, I was approached by somebody from the TV show “The Voice”. He was a runner/researcher and he was tasked with going all over the country to find people who were on the precipice of breaking into the industry on their own. They basically had to already be comfortable in front of a crowd, not necessarily a songwriter but that helped and of course have a good voice.
He found me on Facebook and basically said he would be coming to my hometown, he’d done a search of musicians who were already playing locally and he liked my stuff. Was quite glowing in his praise.
Around this time I was finishing off my second EP and it felt quite nice to have someone from ‘the inside of the business’ reach out to me and like my music.
He’d arranged with the owner of a local venue to be in the audience of one of their well known local artist open mic nights. He wanted me to go down there, play a set and then just chat.
Now I’m not from that world, musically I’m kind of like indie/Alt rock. Heavily influenced by Oasis, The Beatles, Paul Weller, that kind of thing so these TV talent shows felt alien to me. I spoke with some local band managers, studio owners and other musicians and asked for their advice. I was tempted to not go as I didn’t really want to be involved in that world as I see myself as a songwriter first, singer second and more interested in receiving recognition for my songs, rather than my persona.
But they all said no harm in meeting the guy, just use it as a learning experience.
So I went down to the open mic night, the place was packed. Over the phone he told me that he’d asked a few other artists to come down but word had got out and it seemed like every man/woman and their dog had come out for the chance to perform for this guy. I took a little bit of comfort in the fact that he’s messaged me personally there was no way he’d messaged all of those people, but hey I guess he might have?
Anyway finally get on, played a good set, a few of my own and a few covers. Went off to a decent reception, a couple people in the audience patting me on the back and complimenting me. Through the crowd I could see the guy from The Voice, he’d been sat down making notes about each performer.
I went over and we had a great conversation. He was really nice and was quite honest about some of my concerns about the show and tv talent shows in general. He made some good points and after we shook hands he took my number, and was quite explicit in his request for me to go to one of the Live auditions….
And did I go???
No I didn’t. I guess in the end something just didn’t feel right. Not about him, he was cool. But just the whole experience felt a little calculated. Like for example I’d explained to him that I was an indie guy, wrote my own songs and was inspired by bands that would hate these kind of shows. His response to that was that they were actively seeking someone like me from that world but it just felt like I would be ticking a box.
Anyway got a text from him a few weeks later. Very politely declined his offer, thanked him for his kind words and he wished me all the best .
It was a strange experience, when you’ve worked so hard for so long on your own it can be quite intoxicating when someone from the other side of the door that you’re trying to break down reaches out and asks you to step through it.
I’ve been trying to break down that door ever since I picked up a guitar, it just wasn’t the right kind of door I guess.
(BTW My name is MICHAEL REDDINGTON and you can listen to my music in all of the usual steaming platforms)
You could have added the ol "Artist Development" deal! Where a record company hears you and realizes you're really good and then gets you in to a "development contract" to basically keep you quiet because they have an artist that you would be competing with and they certainly don't want another label to scoop you up!
That's nasty.
OH WOW. "Murder Scene" sounds incredible, I love the depth of the sound. Its almost like Led Zeppelin meets the Cranberries. She has a fantastic voice, there is a haunting quality that you just have. Nancy probably heard a little of her sister on that first tape.
They're also giving me that Fleetwood Mac vibe. I dig it!
Yeah Cranberries came to mind.
Exactly what I thought. Literally, exactly.
Heisenberg is that you? ;))
One of the stories pervasive in my head. John Fogerty got sued for sounding like himself and was in artist jail for years. Great to see you in Chicago at Park West, Rick. Thank you for all you do merely enlightening anything and everything music from your perspective. You deserve the audience that has grown to millions I see.
If I was John Fogerty, I would have kept on singing and playing my heart out, ignored the phone calls from the lawyers and thrown their threatening letters in the garbage where they belong.
You know the world is fucked when an artist gets sued for sounding like... Himself!
It’s like this in most creative industries. A thick layer of no nothing, non creative types end up being the gate keepers and arbiters of creativity and for some reason have all the confidence in the world while having not a creative bone in their body.
Kind of reminds me of bureaucrats in government.
I’ve got a bunch of friends and acquaintances who’ve played the game. The only one who struck it really big married a music lawyer in Nashville when he was just a nobody that had a great voice. She knew the game, kept him off the rocks, and made him a star. (That he blew the marriage up after the second platinum album is just the same old story told once more.) But the one friend that’s really happy stuck to their guns, played what they wanted to, produced their first two albums theirselves and came up as a regional act playing the same 50 clubs over and over until they had a real fan base. They’ve now had two Grammy nominated albums and have reached the point of making real money in music without living in the back of a 15 passenger van. Sure they are twenty year over night successes but they have enjoyed the ride while making great music for their fans. I wish every band could say the same.
Is that Michelle Shocked in disguise ?
I had my shot at the brass ring and we got screwed by our record label who were incompetent , my band had the goods , the fan base and the killer live show all we needed was proper marketing and a European tour
Then along comes the next “guitar god” and suddenly our AR guy stops answering the phone , our support at the label vanishes and we get dropped
The music business is peopled by the worst scum I’ve ever had the displeasure of being involved with
Liars and thieves with no morals or conscience
Im glad the internet burned it all down
You said it Rick. Record Labels Suck. Realized this just in time to save my music life lol!
Aren't you a Jacksonville guy? I've heard your name
none of us need a record label telling us how to make our music! we need people like Rick that tells us how to improve our own music
I just tried to get in, and almost did :-) But I see now, that I should be thankfull that it didn't happen :-D
People knew this since the 70s.
Love your tutorials, man.
"The A&R guy is now running a couple of laundromats in LA" Ha! Poetic justice!
I love Rick's talent before the camera. He comes across so relaxed and personable, that I start to forget that I'm just an unknown fan, listing to a recorded video, and become mesmerized into thinking that Rick is relaying a story to me personally. Few people in this world have such an amazing ability. What a guy!!!
The all-too familiar story. My first psychology PhD proposal in 1998 was to study the effect of label organisational culture on the creativity and well-being of signed artists. A board member at EMI, himself a psychologist said, "That is a fantastic idea but you will never get through the door". I never did. It's heart-breaking what has happened to so many fine artists.
try doing a study on risk management; covid19. world's yr oyster.
Are you from Australia or England?
He was telling you that the label was afraid of being exposed for the evil jerks that they were.
As a culture we do not RESPECT our artists. They're treated like disposable trash. Pearls before swine...........
Hey Rick, I Nine actually toured with my band, HURT (we were signed to Capitol). They opened up for us for a while on tour. I'm not sure what year it was (probably somewhere around 2007-2008 I think), but I remember watching them every night and Carmen was amazing.
just think about the groups that never had a hit on the charts but everybody knows them ! we all know who they are and are so glad that we got to grow up with them playing on the soundtracks to our lives !
I’ve been through this stuff myself, Rick. Don’t know who you can trust, or who you can depend on. Wish we would’ve had you as our production manager. All the best.
I was signed to a label in the mid-2000s, thought it was going to change my life I quit my job and put all of my time, money and resources into getting my music together for a release and tour then then everything fell apart. They cited “the internet” as the reason why they didn’t could though with their end of the contract and they dropped not only me but apparently a bunch of other new artists that they had signed that year. Completely crushed me at the time took me forever to get my head straight and get back on my feet, took me maybe literally 10 years if I’m being honest to not feel jaded about recording music again. If I could go back and do it again I would have continued to self produce and self promote, so much heart ache and wasted years after thinking my dreams had come true
That just sucks! Hope you're back to music for good.
Heard this sort of thing so many times its depressing, unlucky mate but you must have created some good stuff to get to that point at least! Maybe just try focus on the process and the joy of just creating music, thats what its all about really 👍
Also signed with a major in the early 00's and I feel like we would have been better off continuing to do it all ourselves. Back in those days you really had to be pretty self sufficient and there were not a ton of resources like there are now. Even a few years later we could have had more tools to do it. I hate the music industry still but I never stopped playing music. I just have more realistic goals now.
Matthew savant bro, I feel you totally! Got the same thing when I quit my band, and music, in 1997, a band I had invested everything in, and got so little to show for. I had to work a series of straight jobs (which I was terrible at, as I couldn’t give a f**k about them and was disgusted by the petty politics). I always dabbled in drugs, but this time, with nothing to keep me going, I dived deep into them, and unfortunately they were the wrong drugs. It ended in disaster, as you might imagine: right down to homelessness, having to sell my collection of vintage guitars, you name it. I started getting back on my feet, musically, after about 14 years, but it was never going to be Western rock. As I said in my post, it has been my salvation, as well as, unbelievably, incredibly, meeting up eventually a great beautiful woman and starting a family. I am still kind of dragging off the consequences of that period but it looks more and more like a distant memory and a dull ache, rather than a tragedy as it seemed for all those years.....
Sorry you went through that mate, such a shitty but near constant reality of the music biz. Music is such an important thing in a lot of peoples lives and to have some parasites come in and destroy that would be shattering. I have been a audio engineer for quite a while now and i also make my own music and to have the joy zapped out of it would be crushing
I honestly can't understand why someone would be interested in signing an artist or band to a record label and then proceeded to change everything about them. It blows my mind, but I know the record industry is filled with stories just like that.
By the way, those last couple clips you played from the reformed group were fantastic. I hope they finally start to take off after all these years.
It used to happen all the time. Money os what they are looking for NOT talent.
they could just create the concept and the music first then go find the mannequins to put in the blender but then the a-hole that was the creator couldn't blame the band when things went sideways
I don't get it eithet. Why take something beatiful and raw, and add glitter and plastic and fuck it up?
I guess there's a tendency to think "ok, this is good. But what if we add xyz to make it even MORE marketable" - especially from people who have no business doing that.
Also sounds like politics and egos and human bullshit in general was involved.
But couldn't the band insist on creative control before they signed? I mean, if those are the main options it would be better to just not sign.
@@Gymbo-Baggins This. It's all about plausible deniability and offloading the risk to the artists
@@465marko The labels probably only wanted the singer and she wanted to keep playing with her band. Just guessing but that kind of thing is common.
Definitely in my top ten movies. The part where he says I need to go home and Kate Hudson says you are home makes me super emotional every time. I just wish for a life like that on the road with my friends
God how many stories like this can I tell you about...head of a&R for a major label told me how awful my production on a group out of Hawaii was...and totally convinced me I wasn't a producer...I lost such confidence I never went back into the studio again to produce music. It was only about 3 years later that that A&R 'expert' was so totally out of a job that he came to me for any gig at all that I could give him...shame on me for giving up...but, everybody in the biz shouild know record labels are full of people who got their gigs because of some other readon than talent....thanks for the story...Nancy is a friend of mine also...I worked with them producing their life story on CD Rom 25 years ago...."Heart 20 Years of Rock and Roll"...Love your show Rick...thanks for all the teaching
I find it kind of fascinating that for this band, which clearly never needed a drummer, everyone else involved took it as a given that they should get one. As if all music, however unique it starts out, has to fit a certain mould in order to be seen as _proper music._
True :)
I won't lie, while I COMPLETELY agree - I absolutely would NOT be against hearing what Josh Freese could do behind their music! Dude will probably go down as the most prolific session drummer of our time, and for good reason!
The Beatles themselves started Apple Records and were going to revolutionize (pun intended?) pop music. There was James Taylor and Badfinger, but was there anyone else? Apple's main legacy seems to be carrying the Beatles catalog.
The actions by the record label echo with the sound of salesmen.
One likes to believe
In the freedom of music
But glittering prizes
And endless compromises
Shatter the illusion
Of integrity, yeah...
RIP Neil.
@@romonabrown7330 Amen
Hmmm . . .
I WONDER who wrote those lyrics and lived to sing that tale . . . . hmmm.
How about this one:
"The music of the future
Will not entertain
It's only meant to repress
And neutralize your brain
Soul gets squeezed out
Edges get blunt
Demographic
Gives what you want"
The sentiment here seems to be “used to be” between 2014 and 2020 i directed music videos for major labels,
I stopped because they wanted to put every penny on screen and then when you're out on a limb, someone has to come in and F^&k it all up. “Put some crazy effect over it” “can we put an Instagram filter over it”
People still love the videos and I'm grateful for that, but it does sometimes still hurt to know how they could have been, before the egos landed, the story sounds just like yours, even down to the video that got dropped. At the time I left like it was my fault, so your video helped me a lot, thank you.
This is why I don't mind stealing music downloads and supporting the bands by paying to see them live, it ensures you don't feed the record label beasts!
360 Deals would like a word with you. But the whole industry is rotten, from the labels to the publishing, to the organizations like RIAA and ASCAP, to the live production corporations like Live Nation. It all needs reform.
Amazing how artists sound when you leave them ALONE. thanks for sharing that story Rick.
I'm thrilled that somebody aside from myself realizes reality
Amazing how artists sound when what they want from playing music is way less than "getting a million-dollar record deal" or "being heard by every no-taste-having yob in the universe". Some of the best music I've ever heard came from people who long ago gave up on that Top O' the Pops dream, and just made music they loved for however many people loved their music. That seems to be the most rewarding experience for the artist and the listener.
Nothing wrong with wanting to be more popular, or to make more money. Just...there's ways and then there's ways.
Akin’s Law nr. 7 applies here as well: ”7. At the start of any design effort, the person who most wants to be team leader is least likely to be capable of it.”
MoreOfGuitar so heckin true. Where can one find this Akins list. I need more nuggets of gold to tell off my pianist. 😂
Yeah there's one of those in a big white house in D.C. right now.
Funny you mentioned Fast Times at the beginning. I play bass with Rob Fahey, who wrote Raised on the Radio from the soundtrack. His band at the time, the Ravyns, had a similar trajectory with MCA, got signed, A&R guy was fired, their excellent second album shelved, then dropped, then the band broke up. Such a great band, the other main singer songwriter Kyf Brewer went on to some success fronting Company of Wolves. Everyone from the band is still playing with various ventures, Rob put out several great solo albums and is still playing five gigs a week at 70, I call him the Iron Man of the Baltimore Music Scene.
As a former artist manager (and musician prior), this story was absolute fantasy candy, until the ending which I didn't quite see coming. But for you to be the catalyst of that kind of feeding frenzy for a band, with the kind of heavies you were talking to.... I mean, wow, just WOW.
*_After watching this video of you telling yet another captivating, personal music-based story, I felt compelled to leave this comment. Anyway, it may seem as though I'm kissing up to you (I'm not) when I say this... but, I for one, am extremely thankful to you for sharing 'behind-the-scenes music stories', such as this one about the band, 'I Nine' (BTW, my comment here isn't really about this particular story)._*
It's funny - I've been an avid watcher of your channel since about 2 years ago... & just when I think you've told us pretty much all of the great stories/memorable moments of the past 30+ years of your life, you manage to surprise us w/this incredible story. You crafty, rascal you. : )
*Anyway, I always appreciate your honest delivery as you tell these unique stories that we would likely never know if it weren't for your willingness to share them (well, & we also thank TH-cam too - of course). You're channel is in my top 5 channels on TH-cam. -- thanks for all you do, brother!*
TL;DR
"A female Led Zeppelin". My Dutch wife asked me once while I was listening to Led Zeppelin, "Who is this woman singing?" 😳😲😠🤣🤣🤣
When I was 10 years old, I discovered Led Zeppelin and I was fairly sure Janis Joplin must be the singer of this band.
That chick who sings for Rush is also pretty good!
when my dad played me Black dog when i was six years old i assumed it was a female on vocals and did for a couple of years after that
@@Greenlion781 Gertrude Lee? Known as Geddy by her friends?
To be fair the singer of Led Zeppelin was absolute trash. The only reason they took off is because of Jimmy's amazing riffs. Years later my dad listened to some Zeppelin and I remember him saying wow we must have been high as hell because his singing is terrible.
If there was ever a single, simple reason to self produce and promote on independent labels, this is it! It's also the reason I smile every time I hear about the mainstream label industry dying!
Yes! Thank god that the internet allows for the chance at an audience without the filter of the "mainstream labels". The "label" model of distributing music needs to fade away as quickly as possible. The same goes for the movie "studio model", But it's a bit easier to record a "record" today than to make a movie.
@@jamesslick4790 There are still so many out there who don't believe they can "make it" but the age of label promoted stadium crowds is all but dead except for the uber produced gelatinous garbage that is reprocessed for a mindless consuming mass. I'd rather that musicians live within their means and gain contentment producing that which gives them joy. Their audience will find them. Up the independent label!
@@hombreenojado Yep. I 100x enjoy a local band playing at a bar compared to just about any "big concert" that coms to town. Support you local bands, Buy their self produced or "indie" label CDs, ETC. There IS good music around, Just not on the "big labels" and GOD knows NOT on the radio.
@@jamesslick4790 Movies are way too expensive to make.
@@jennifersun2638 Yes, That's why I brought it up. It's much easier (financially) to have an indie band "cut" an album and distribute it than it is for an independent filmmaker to do the same for a movie. I have enough "gear" (mics, mixers, recorders) in this very room for some local "garage band" to "cut" a multitrack AUDIO demo. I could NOT however make a convincing local "ambulance chaser" lawyer ad for even a tiny town law firm even though I have multiple camcorders and DSLRs. Movies require locations, sets, special effects... "Cutting" a "record" requires a studio and audio gear. Even "consumer" audio gear is BETTER than what major bands used in the 1960s. Movies and Video will ALWAYS be more expensive even if it's JUST for locations (travel, ETC) than audio recording.
I heard a 4 piece band playing in a basement garage back in 1967. They were magnificent. In less than one hour the crowd swelled from about 20 people to at least 300 from the surrounding neighborhood. The police were called to “Break up the hippies.” A near riot ensued. Finally the music was stopped and the crowd dispersed. 50 years later I was at a get together with my older brother in attendance. We were sitting at the bar listening to the house band squeak through a few tunes when my older brother says “ I was at a basement party back in our old neighborhood, probably around 1966 or 67. When I heard this amazing band.” I mentioned that I was there also and YES! They were great. I hope they made it to the big leagues. Long live RNR!
Unfortunately, that's a familiar story. Everyone wants in on a good thing. Next thing there's 100 cooks in the kitchen with a different recipe for one dish. Result? Whaddaya think? Thanks for sharing your insights into the process of marketing human beings. 👍
The thing is: do they want to get in to contribute or to put their name on it?
@@TheNinnyfee 🤔 talentless hacks taking advantage of eager artists, just to get a production credit? 😾🤢
I read that as "...a hundred cocks in the kitchen..."
@@UnbeltedSundew You'll have to speak to your therapist on that one! 😃
@@UnbeltedSundew I'm confused, are we having chicken or sausage for dinner?
I think labels have less and less relevance with the passing of time, they take more than what they give and what they give can be obtained in other ways now. Cheap recording solutions are getting better, the funding can be done with a Kickstarter campaign, Patreon and others, the artists can make a name for themselves on social media without spending crazy amounts of money, physical records are almost irrelevant now so you don't really have to care about their distribution. All that's left is the connections that the labels have, but I don't think that some extra exposure worths damaging your product (which in this case is music)
In talking to old timers the Sixties seemed to be a unique period where almost anyone with talent could make it. Even a Charles Manson song wound up on a Beach Boys album. Every type of music had a chance. The Wrecking Crew would step in to make everything sound professional. Labels were willing to groom artists over time. But one hit wonders abounded also. Later only certain styles were allowed to dominate at any one time. So we went through the singer songwriter era, the disco era the country era,, the punk era, the new wave era, the rap era. A lot of artists supported and signed in the Sixties like the Stones, Dylan, Nel Young have continued to flourish with some ups and downs along the way. But the music biz has always been weird. You would think they would constantly be searching for the next big artist. But it has long been a closed door seclusive industry that created barriers of entry for young, struggling artists.
@@surfrunnerd8457 Well in the 1960's lots of the studios were rather new, only some in Nashville that went country were worth a thing and had long standing outside of the Columbia, RCA and the few like that. This is why I think now all the companies will do in the future is find full made albums by small studios and individuals and do the production of the music or promotion. This is why a bunch of small labels are making and selling music now, The one the Squirl Nut Zippers did, the one that was at the first set in the 2000's-2010's as the producers only wanted the sound of the first album replicated even from places that record that style of music, then Black Keys and Jack White have labels, now others like the old studio that Frank Zappa stared that his son runs are making a comeback, same with the small punk label that sold Green Day first LookOut Records is signing bands ect. The smaller labels are making a comeback as you do not need big studios to make music anymore kind of how it was in the 1950's to 1960's with smaller studios and even some bands when they have enough money going in to buy studio time to make music the way they want. Most of this started in the 1960's and 1970's when big studios tried to manufacture the sound of Beatles and other Brit rock artists, later copying disco. The small bands that could not make it did start like Frank Zappa doing music on an independent label, then others like Devo when enough money bought the rights to the music and bought studio time to do it the way they wanted.
Thats how the world found Luke Combs! Social media.
Some of the best music I ever heard was by a guy who produced the entire album himself. He turned out to be a douchebag who was hooking up with underaged fans, sadly, so I no longer throw in a plug for his work whenever I can. But he still proved a point about the music.
Recording is really cheap if at least one person in a band learns how to do it. It will take years, but the younger you start, the better you'll be sooner. The power to record and mix is beyond liberating for a band. For 5K, you can get a decent setup, not including instruments of course.
Summer of 70, our band Phunk,, tube, "Vain River" and "Thought" got signed by Columbia, met John Hammond Sr. Top of the world that day in the big Apple. Rick, how many times has this happiness to tears played out? The prospects for new musicians is far better now than the days of BS that we had to put up with.
I'm good friends with his cousin, Charlie. Charlie is an awesome guitarist, who is the musical director for Brooks and Dunn. The Crowe family are super talented and downright good people. Very approachable.
You’re a great storyteller, Rick!
Honestly didn’t expect to hear that they got back together again, and lemme tell ya Rick, I’m touched.
Susan Cagle Subway Recordings… then she was signed with Clive Davis and from then on her music career began to end.. she ever changed her last name and tried to change her image. Everyone I know who heard her sing fell in love with her ❤ 🎶
Steve Albini wrote an article for The Baffler, which is kind of a notorious piece now, about the pitfalls of a record deal. It's almost a companion piece to Rick's story here.
Back in the day, I was in a band, and read that. It opened my eyes, and kept me wary. Remember two words, "sunset clause". In the end, we never got burned, because we never got signed. Oh well. Fun while we did it. :)
Cameron is easily one of the nicest and genuine people I’ve ever met in my life. Legitimately wanted me to succeed in music and all I did was fix his Mac
He also told me the studio ruined Elizabeth town by forcing Orlando Bloom and Kirsten Dunst in off Spider man and Pirates hype and they had no chemistry
Mike Reno of Loverboy is one of the nicest and most genuine people I have ever met. I'm not a musician, but he talked to me for the better part of an hour and all I did was fix his Mac. True story.
I’m glad I found you on TH-cam your wealth of experience is so valuable for us independent Songwriter/Singer/Recording Artist like myself
I thank GOD every day for TH-cam and technology we have today, because of this technology and the advantages the independent Artist like myself I’m able to steer the course of my Journey in the Music World see how far this Venture will take me..
Your Encouragement for me, thank you Sir..
For a long time, I couldn’t figure out who this singer sounded like. Now I realize that it’s Carolyn Dawn Johnson (she sang So Complicated). Really pleasant, textured voice.
about 16 years ago i had a friend i worked with "David Rennie" that played in bands through the 60s and 70s. he never went into great detail about it, but more than a few times he mentioned one of the bands he had been in had recorded and completed an album, and said something about the guy that produced the album wanted to be paid more or something by the label and he screwed the whole thing up and it never got released.
it honestly leaves me a little shocked thinking about a label putting all the resources into an album and then shelving it. and then it really starts messing with me wondering how many bands and albums are out there in those vaults, and what kind of possibly incredible maybe even ahead of their times bands that are now forgotten to history have albums out there stored away where no one knows they even exist. its really sort of infuriating. just the same as i always wonder about the great songs out there that were written by some little bands that went nowhere and the songs were literally never even recorded. that always breaks my heart to know that something existed but there is no documentation of it, its just lost in a way where there is not even a chance it could someday be found.
What happens is usually this: a record label will have cash cows in music genres that they want to work with, like Sting or Madonna: you name it. Smaller labels will have smaller names, but you get the idea. When they see an artist that has good potential in the same genre as their cash cow, they will sign them and shelve them. They will spend money to somewhat honor their deal (studio time, maybe pay the artist a small advance), but that's it. The idea is to clear the way for their big cash cow, to protect them. The reasoning is that they make more money like this than the other way. My take on that is that, if you got an offer on the table from a label, it can still be good, but check their catalogue beforehand, try to see if you're an addition to them or you are the weeds that they try to clean.
@@gregoirepainchaud I don't understand your theory on how the label gets more money by signing (therefore, investing in) a smaller band while keeping and favouring a big name at the same time. Why would a record label see the necessity to invest even little money in some act that will be shelved? How is it that those big acts get benefit from that modus operandi?
@@claudiodelgift827 As I understand it, signing and shelving the up and coming artist protects the existing star by removing the competition.
@@briansteele5959 Now it makes sense 100%.
@@gregoirepainchaud I write novels, publish through Amazon, and I've heard of book publishers doing the same with writers. Small advance, big promises, then nothing ever put out, or straight to being remaindered. Author has the dubious pleasure of seeing his/her book on sale for what is probably cost plus a small profit, and no royalties.
Fascinating video. I went through a similar thing around '91/'92. The band we had were doing good, we'd played internationally, sold a truck load of shirts and garnered a tiny but loyal following. Then the record labels came sniffing. We were of course on cloud nine!!! Now both the singer and bassist were law graduates so poured over the small print and all the contracts were like Rick says - basically relinquishing all creative control and even image control. If we broke wind the 'wrong' way it'd be breach of contract. So our singer drafted a 'new' version of the one that was the best of a bad bunch. Which in regular contract terms very fair and even but still weighted in their favour. Their representative just shook his head and quipped "Listen lads... rock n' roll's meant to be bit dangerous but you lot actually know what you're doing, you know a contract is a trick and we can't have you in the industry knowing that. Can't have the horse before the cart. That lads is way , way too dangerous." All the other labels withdrew too funnily.
it's the same in engineering ....In my country when you got a long experience in say a computer language for example , they hire you only for a project in another language ....That way since you're a newbie in the other language , if they don't like you , they can throw you a technical difficulty you don't have the level to solve , and they fire you for "not being performant enough" ......Most devious bosses out there won't hire you at the first signs of you being clever enough to pass through his tricks , it a control of the individual imperative ..... I can't imagine the potential of humans being wasted every decade in the sole name of managerial control . I try to play dumb in interviews at times but my reputation precedes me unfortunately .
@@benoitguillou3146 Oh you're absolutely right. I've known other friends and ex-colleagues who have taken a job on where the office or systems or whatever have been in bad shape. They've worked hard to bring it up to standard and put in place a fully trained and organised workforce to run it. As soon as its 'running itself like clockwork' the person then gets laid off as 'surplus to requirements'. Our old band I mention well the drummer he's an electronics engineer and he's come across that happening many times so now, if he's the project leader, he'll always keep back a couple of 'safety valves' as he calls them. Basically if they try to get rid of him then the job will stop making him 'irreplaceable'.
These recording contracts are something else though. They're in a league all of their own. The best I can describe in an engineering perspective is imagine you invent something, say a device, and this device is desirable to at least some maybe a lot of people. These contracts then sought to pay you to have this device mass produced and marketed except oh no you no longer own the device. You lose control 100%. Even though its 100% your own invention. But ok they'll pay you well enough so you're initially at least reasonably wealthy. But you didn't read the small print and it seems that you are liable for a large % of the production and marketing costs too so you need to 'pay back' say 55% of your earnings to cover this. Of course you still have to pay your 20% or whatever as income tax (cos you earned it right?) so have to keep the taxman happy. But you need your money to live and also go on tour to promote your 'device' so they actually then LEND you the money to do this.... at an APR of say 1300% per annum. You know credit card levels. So basically all your income is a loan. That you have to pay back eventually and the one thing that you can market isn't yours anymore so you can't sell to the highest bidder anymore.
This is what has shafted so many musicians over the years. Eventually the band all fall out and everyone hates one another and they fall into obscurity. But these 'loans' still need paying and are a millstone around each person's neck. They need paying so even if you get another job a % of your income will be taken (like income tax) from your salary or wage. Same as how student loans work or store cards work. So of course with this going on its no surprise how many old bands suddenly reform and take their classic album on a worldwide tour with very expensive VIP tickets and 'meet & greets' available for the (now more solvent) aging fans to splurge out on. Yes these bands all hated each other when they broke up and swore never to play again... but yet here they are playing your local mega-arena and are suddenly 'oh we were besties all along'. The main issue for many older bands is that sure the songwriters enjoyed income from the royalties from their hits and especially if they get covered by other artists but members who 'just played drums' or whatever are left often penniless. Its why they tour now with the principle songwriters helping their old friends out... its why the likes of The Who and Fleetwood Mac etc... are all out there (well when its allowed) to tour seemingly endlessly. It takes a LOT of meet and greets to sustain the 'rock star' lifestyle when you're in your late 60's or 70's!
@@dingdong6069 yes .... and you forgot the purposefull implantation of drug dealers into the entourage to tighten the grip even more .... not sure if its on a totally "other level tho" , i didn t told you about ALL the devious managerial techniques in engineering .... but in any case , the workplace whatever it is , is a fools game ... if you re not a fool overtly , you re out before having even started
im a music fanatic and ive been to many bars and nightclubs and heard so many groups that i thought were great but so many of them were just out to make a couple bucks and faded away and were happy playing covers , what a shame working in a factory by day and playing great music at night in some bar - what a shame it is knowing how many great musicians are out there and nobody will ever know them ! but most of them werent looking for fame they were just happt to be playing ! youve got to raise your glass to so many of these unsung heros to just be keepingthe music alive !
I love Rick Beato. I think the reason he has become so popular is because he has a very unassuming vibe, he doesn't give off any bad vibes I've been watching his videos for years, it's got to the point where i really only trust him and his critiques. He has become the standard for Rock and roll reviews. I consider him almost a friend.
Ten minutes in I was like "I've got $10 that says the A&R guy screws it up." And then I realized I should have known that from the title.
As soon as he mentioned Clive Davis, I said to myself, "Uh oh. Don't sign with him."
It makes me greatly pleased there are some people who recognize what's going on
ROFL, right on the money.
Almost Famous is pure class!!!! One of my favorites
It's one of my favorites too. I love the scene where Jimmy Fallon's character talks about the Rolling Stones. Hilarious!!
"I'm always home, I'm uncool"
I dig music..
Almost Famous is just Cameron Crowe bragging about how he got laid the first time (three groupies practically raping him). The rest of the movie is just fill :-)
@@Egilhelmson wow so edgy brooo. you're so fucking cool for not liking a universally acclaimed movie wow omg how can I be more like you thanks for letting us know what your opinion was omggg
Another amazing story, I never heard of this group, but when her voice gave me the chills I knew right away how great she was
This actually happened to me and the band I sang for. I wasn’t going to work with strangers and this was years ago, I wanted to work with my band. It was awful for all of us
Yah! Something a bit more crazy happened to me!
I hired a producer with my own money to make my first album.
It was a well connected producer with intimate access to A&R people.
He told me he really liked my demos.
Then he started to change everything, to the very core of the artist vision of the songs. He kept saying he was talking to the A&R guys and the sound he was going for was the thing that would make me sign a deal, etc...
Long story short, he made his songs with my money and my lyrics, and I hated them!
From then on, independent is the only way for me!
Sure.