I bought this and NVDY. By the time I sold I was up on NVDY and waay down on TSLY. It's really all about the underlying companies. JEPQ, meanwhile, made a total return of 35%.
I’ve done very well buying tsly before the ex date then selling calls. It’s not fool proof but making 10-15% for the month is very nice for a low priced fund.
It's good for boosting your current dividends. My time horizon is essentially zero, since I turn 59.5 in May and will start withdrawing from my Roth, where TSLY is located. Yes, the loss is troubling to a certain extent, but this is probably the stock exchange version of an annuity, albeit without the absolute certainty of consistent payout time and amount. The purpose has never been primarily growth, but current income. Long term investors not at time horizon zero would be better off steering clear of this one. FWIW, I've had other investments lose NAV to the same degree without the same level of dividends. AY, for one.
I think the appeal comes down to false logic. People refer to these covered call funds as "dividend stocks" which creates a false impression that dividend stock strategy applies to them. They aren't stocks for one thing. When you buy a stock you are gaining fractional ownership of a company. When you buy these ETFs you aren't gaining ownership of anything, you're essentially handing your money over to someone you've never met and are saying "use my money to gamble on options." Dividend paying companies tend to be very stable, even growing if we're lucky. They have an intrinsic value that is measurable. You should be able to tell if you are getting more value in the future than what you are paying for in the present. None of that applies to covered call etfs. You might be able to calculate their current value based on their assets at the moment, but good luck forecasting what any of that amounts to in the future.
LOL that you think you own a piece of any company because they let you pay for some shares it's all just tools to make money. Dont fall for smoke and mirrors
I tried it out, the capital depreciation went off the rails, I sold covered calls to make some of the money back, & then they did a reverse split and my 122 shares became 61 and the the capital depreciation started all over again. I sold my shares after that.
I think it is too soon to tell with TSLY because TESLA stock has been on a downward trend as well. (I have invested in it and by the end of the year, I’ll have almost doubled what I had invested even with it going down). TSLY (kinda) follows Tesla’s trend so I’m fine with reinvesting in the dip, because once Tesla spikes again, I’m feeling TSLY wil as well, then I’m just pull out what I invested and let it ride (which is what I’ve done with a few other stocks)
Alot of its problem is that TSLA has done awful. This should not be a core position or even in a core portfolio. I have a little i just started buying in my side high yield maniac casino portfolio. This is mostly because TSLA may find a bottom. The other thing to keep in mind is like covered calls you should be topping off your position just the same as if you were writing covered calls yourself. $TSLP is a new one from Kurv and its actually done much better in holding its NAV vs TSLA. Matching the downtrend pretty evenly. Its basically the same if you were writing your own covered calls at the money with TSLA over this downtrend. Its not for growth, only for cashflow and cashflow is king. Again I wouldnt even put these types in my core portfolio but certainly have it in my side portfolio where i use the cashflow for fun money.
@@rynewilliams it really depends on the stock price of Tesla. If you go right the same covered calls at the money on your own shares of Tesla you're essentially going to have the same outcome. So you're basically just paying them the expense ratio to write the at the money covered calls for you and you don't require 100 shares of Tesla. That's all this is. Are all covered calls gambling I don't know I guess that's subjective. It's just an investment structure on a highly volatile asset. The only difference between this and JEPI is there solely picking a highly volatile asset and then riding the calls at the money
And don't get me wrong I do agree with you that investing in safer assets play you don't have to actively managed or watch is a much better scenario albeit I don't believe in buying anything that pays less than 4% because if I want to go less than 4% I'll just buy SCHD. But I don't think it's gambling as much as buying some crappy meme coin would be. It's writing covered calls and you need to know what you're doing. There is an exact science behind it.
It you are judging these ETFs by recency bias of very very short term performance rather than assessing their actual construction in the prospectus you are missing the point of why TSLY has performed terribly. The same fate awaits all YieldMax products, it just is a matter of time.
25% seems to be the limit on cc etf yield fepi is doing well , ymax is also holding pretty well tho so if anyone wants anything yieldmax in thier portfolio id say that one is the choice
Ryne, I'm like you I'll stay clear of these traps. I will stick with cash secured put & covered calls. You can make way more money selling weekly csp & cc with less money
CONY and NVDY are doing well. Tied to bitcorn and tech TSLY is related to a car company. They always suffer! So that reflects of the type of investment u buy. Car company are unstable
@@Synful_ Covered Call etfs are bearish plays, if the underline goes to low, you go kaput on the synthetic to the etf or you split, I doubt YM was going to let it got to zero, its in the prospectus, I don't own that one, took profits in December, just look at leverage fund TMF, collect your ROI and move on.
It is supposed to be a income vehicle. You should just buy the underlying stock if you wanted to see growth. If you were a retiree you would understand this better.
I don't have TSLY but I have watched other channels that use the income from yield max shares to invest in companies that grow the growth from these stocks offset the losses from yield max shares plus not all yield max shares lose value it all depends on how the stocks they are tracking perform if you want to call it a scam I won't argue with that it doesn't look like a good investment to me
Serious question: Why do people go for this ETF and not after a BDC like MAIN, Ares or Sixth Street instead? I feel like those companies offer a way safer dividend, while also having a very high yield. Tesla is the black sheep among the Magnificent Seven, so I don’t understand how this ETF can be so popular… 😅
TSLL looks like a terrible investment... unless I am missing something,, it is down big time since the launch and the "dividends" have not added up to the amount of the losses...plus their is a fee for management.
Never been a fan of TSLY or any yieldmax fund. I do have JEPI and JEPQ and like some other funds, so long as they meet my criteria of mainly selling options on an index vs single stock, and NAV & share price that appreciates over time
I don't get it either, it's just the mirage of quick money I guess? For high yield I own BDCs with decades of proven track records and increasing dividends. Lately I got some preferred shares on which the dividend just reset to over 8% for 5 years, I chose those over bonds. Far far less than TSLY, but I don't lose sleep wondering what my next dividend payment will be or if my retirement is at risk...
With Yieldmax funds, the upside is capped, but the downside is not. Currently, TSLY is up around 18% in the last month, but TSLA is up around 50% in the last month in terms of price return.
TSLY has been one of my worst investments. major NAV erosion Lost $500 after subtracting my dividends . Not worth the high dividend yield. I sold it before it did a reverse split and looks like it's still losing value. Global X.., XRMI and QRMI has been a better balance between maintaining the NAV and dividends. Yes, I agree. Don't chase high yields!!😮. Thanks Ryne... Everything you said is 100% correct.
Kurve kinda has the same system set up but I think they actually own the shares I have a portfolio that has a bunch of yield max ETFs and I’m going to ride it out and see how it does for the year but I have a separate portfolio that has REITS and other ETFs with not such a high yield GL to everyone
The main differences with KURV invest is they trade 30 days out and at least 5 to 15 percent out of the money gives room for the upside, while still paying a decent dividend, Amzn Kurv trades up to 15 percent that’s the one I own.
A lot of people think covered call ETFs like JEPI are great for retirees. They are not. A basket of top notch dividend growth stocks are much, much better, especially for retirees.
I'm not retired, but trying to put myself in the shoes of someone who is, I wouldn't be comfortable with the idea of my income fluctuating every month. That is, unless I had a MAJOR cushion between my income and expenses. Obviously, dividends from regular companies aren't guaranteed and can disappear any day, but it's hard to argue that they're not more predictable than dividends from covered call ETFs
When they started this etf it started such an irrational frenzy for some misguided investors, it was upsetting Knowing some where pouring so much of their resources into it and how badly it was going to go for them. I feel like it's far to aggressively set up to ever recover when it takes a big hit.
I don’t own TSLY (or TSLA) so don’t have a dog on this fight, but do you think it might be a bit too harsh to call this a “scam”? I mean, this is so far a pretty bad fund, sure, but I understand other sister Yieldmax funds are doing better (at least so far), so perhaps this one just has had a particularly bad underlying (TSLA) and otherwise is significantly underperforming - but not because it’s a loser it’s necessary a scam, is it? Honest question, not trying to be contrarian.
I think investment products like these serve to benefit the companies who create them more than the actual shareholders of the fund. Investors are lured in by the ridiculously high yield, charged high expenses, and then end up losing money. In the case of TSLY, specifically, you're paying someone a 1% annual fee to stuff your money into the garbage disposal. And then, you're led to believe that it's okay you're losing money because you're making so much in "income." There's a lot of tomfoolery going on, and in my opinion, it's scammy.
@@rynewilliams same thing with TSLY. they tank.. cus they cant fully grab the upside.. but the full downside.. . you just own what suits ur needs and risk tolerance. see what the market does on annual base. and then with diversification you get the yield ont he circumstances... this and the old know way is comparing appels with pears! but still not a scam..
I bought this and NVDY. By the time I sold I was up on NVDY and waay down on TSLY. It's really all about the underlying companies. JEPQ, meanwhile, made a total return of 35%.
Thanks for sharing! I think you hit the nail on the head
I’ve done very well buying tsly before the ex date then selling calls. It’s not fool proof but making 10-15% for the month is very nice for a low priced fund.
How far out of the money do you sell the calls?
It's good for boosting your current dividends. My time horizon is essentially zero, since I turn 59.5 in May and will start withdrawing from my Roth, where TSLY is located. Yes, the loss is troubling to a certain extent, but this is probably the stock exchange version of an annuity, albeit without the absolute certainty of consistent payout time and amount. The purpose has never been primarily growth, but current income. Long term investors not at time horizon zero would be better off steering clear of this one. FWIW, I've had other investments lose NAV to the same degree without the same level of dividends. AY, for one.
Thanks for sharing. I hope it serves you well!
thanks for the thoughts. Sounds like these etfs amplify losses or gains in the stocks they cover.
I think the appeal comes down to false logic. People refer to these covered call funds as "dividend stocks" which creates a false impression that dividend stock strategy applies to them. They aren't stocks for one thing. When you buy a stock you are gaining fractional ownership of a company. When you buy these ETFs you aren't gaining ownership of anything, you're essentially handing your money over to someone you've never met and are saying "use my money to gamble on options." Dividend paying companies tend to be very stable, even growing if we're lucky. They have an intrinsic value that is measurable. You should be able to tell if you are getting more value in the future than what you are paying for in the present. None of that applies to covered call etfs. You might be able to calculate their current value based on their assets at the moment, but good luck forecasting what any of that amounts to in the future.
VERY well said my friend. I think you hit the nail right on the head
LOL that you think you own a piece of any company because they let you pay for some shares it's all just tools to make money. Dont fall for smoke and mirrors
I tried it out, the capital depreciation went off the rails, I sold covered calls to make some of the money back, & then they did a reverse split and my 122 shares became 61 and the the capital depreciation started all over again. I sold my shares after that.
Wild!
I think it is too soon to tell with TSLY because TESLA stock has been on a downward trend as well. (I have invested in it and by the end of the year, I’ll have almost doubled what I had invested even with it going down). TSLY (kinda) follows Tesla’s trend so I’m fine with reinvesting in the dip, because once Tesla spikes again, I’m feeling TSLY wil as well, then I’m just pull out what I invested and let it ride (which is what I’ve done with a few other stocks)
Thank you for sharing that!
@@rynewilliams we shall see, I could have made a mistake but I was willing to risk 3k on it in Jan. I’ll set a reminder for 6 months 😬
We'll see what happens!
@@sxsignalmore like by 8/8 and the 13th of this week haha
@@sxsignalyou keep that tsly share?? If so how has it preformed on dividends to what you expected?
Alot of its problem is that TSLA has done awful. This should not be a core position or even in a core portfolio. I have a little i just started buying in my side high yield maniac casino portfolio. This is mostly because TSLA may find a bottom. The other thing to keep in mind is like covered calls you should be topping off your position just the same as if you were writing covered calls yourself. $TSLP is a new one from Kurv and its actually done much better in holding its NAV vs TSLA. Matching the downtrend pretty evenly. Its basically the same if you were writing your own covered calls at the money with TSLA over this downtrend. Its not for growth, only for cashflow and cashflow is king. Again I wouldnt even put these types in my core portfolio but certainly have it in my side portfolio where i use the cashflow for fun money.
At least you can be honest about it being akin to gambling -- where if you play long enough, you are sure to lose money
@@rynewilliams it really depends on the stock price of Tesla. If you go right the same covered calls at the money on your own shares of Tesla you're essentially going to have the same outcome. So you're basically just paying them the expense ratio to write the at the money covered calls for you and you don't require 100 shares of Tesla. That's all this is. Are all covered calls gambling I don't know I guess that's subjective. It's just an investment structure on a highly volatile asset. The only difference between this and JEPI is there solely picking a highly volatile asset and then riding the calls at the money
And don't get me wrong I do agree with you that investing in safer assets play you don't have to actively managed or watch is a much better scenario albeit I don't believe in buying anything that pays less than 4% because if I want to go less than 4% I'll just buy SCHD. But I don't think it's gambling as much as buying some crappy meme coin would be. It's writing covered calls and you need to know what you're doing. There is an exact science behind it.
Not actually TsLY that is bad, it's simply TSLA has dropped like a rock. You can see in NVDY and CONY that they do quite well...
For now! Let's see how things shake out for them across a longer period of time
your pour damned soul will lose everything
It you are judging these ETFs by recency bias of very very short term performance rather than assessing their actual construction in the prospectus you are missing the point of why TSLY has performed terribly. The same fate awaits all YieldMax products, it just is a matter of time.
Your returns would probably be better investing in the underlying stock than in its call option ETF
I have faith TSLY will recover when TSLA recovers, if you don't sell and panic you could get some reward in the future. Thanks good video!
These people think dividends are "Free" money and that is there is no risk. They don't listen to facts/logic.
oh we do listen. these things might be new... but there not a scam by miles ..
I'd be curious to hear your case for them as a viable long-term investment
25% seems to be the limit on cc etf yield fepi is doing well , ymax is also holding pretty well tho so if anyone wants anything yieldmax in thier portfolio id say that one is the choice
Thank you for sharing!
Ryne, I'm like you I'll stay clear of these traps. I will stick with cash secured put & covered calls. You can make way more money selling weekly csp & cc with less money
Smart move my friend!
CONY and NVDY are doing well. Tied to bitcorn and tech
TSLY is related to a car company. They always suffer!
So that reflects of the type of investment u buy. Car company are unstable
I tested and sold Tsly it did not have a performing return.
At least you gave it a shot!
It’s not going to when the underline stock is not performing well either,
@f.w.1318 that's a coping mechanism for losing money. the split killed the investment
@@Synful_ Covered Call etfs are bearish plays, if the underline goes to low, you go kaput on the synthetic to the etf or you split, I doubt YM was going to let it got to zero, its in the prospectus, I don't own that one, took profits in December, just look at leverage fund TMF, collect your ROI and move on.
It is supposed to be a income vehicle. You should just buy the underlying stock if you wanted to see growth. If you were a retiree you would understand this better.
I don't have TSLY but I have watched other channels that use the income from yield max shares to invest in companies that grow the growth from these stocks offset the losses from yield max shares plus not all yield max shares lose value it all depends on how the stocks they are tracking perform if you want to call it a scam I won't argue with that it doesn't look like a good investment to me
The yield max onea scare me, the irs loves when people invest into them. Hope you're doing well buddy
Back at you man!
The irs loves them specifically for tax reasons or something else?
@@diegocontreras3173 thats why lol
#1 depends on what underlying stock does
Well, that was short lived. It recovered a significant amount
Serious question: Why do people go for this ETF and not after a BDC like MAIN, Ares or Sixth Street instead? I feel like those companies offer a way safer dividend, while also having a very high yield.
Tesla is the black sheep among the Magnificent Seven, so I don’t understand how this ETF can be so popular… 😅
People would rather go with the high yields offered by funds like the ones mentioned in the video 🤷
TSLL looks like a terrible investment... unless I am missing something,, it is down big time since the launch and the "dividends" have not added up to the amount of the losses...plus their is a fee for management.
Never been a fan of TSLY or any yieldmax fund. I do have JEPI and JEPQ and like some other funds, so long as they meet my criteria of mainly selling options on an index vs single stock, and NAV & share price that appreciates over time
Thank you for sharing!
It’s a JEPI and JEPQ life for me
Yup
I don't get it either, it's just the mirage of quick money I guess? For high yield I own BDCs with decades of proven track records and increasing dividends. Lately I got some preferred shares on which the dividend just reset to over 8% for 5 years, I chose those over bonds. Far far less than TSLY, but I don't lose sleep wondering what my next dividend payment will be or if my retirement is at risk...
Well said Dominique!
I kept tsly for a short time then dumped it. I made a profit out of it. Something like this was not a long term hold.
Im thankful I never invested in these ETFS, I continue to stick to my SCHD, VYM, FXAIX and single stocks.
Great video!!!
Thanks Jay! You're better off doing what you're doing
Fxaix I a my biggest holding 🔥🔥
it´s not an investment - it´s a gamble. I hold 250 shares of TSLY and see where it goes
I think that’s a very fair assessment. Thank you! I hope TSLY does well for you 💰
So how did it go for you ?
The only thing I can say is all the haters who commented a year ago... must be feeling great today.
Time may still prove us wrong about TSLY, we'll have to see what happens.
SPYI is good if you’re looking for income.
Thank you for sharing that!
With Yieldmax funds, the upside is capped, but the downside is not. Currently, TSLY is up around 18% in the last month, but TSLA is up around 50% in the last month in terms of price return.
will tsly exposure to the risk being closed by the team like it was in tsli?
Covered call funds always underperform their underlying assets.
But what if you sold call options on yout TSLY shares XD
That'd be wild haha
I did before the reverse split halved my shares. And they’ll probably do that again sadly
TSLY has been one of my worst investments. major NAV erosion Lost $500 after subtracting my dividends . Not worth the high dividend yield. I sold it before it did a reverse split and looks like it's still losing value. Global X.., XRMI and QRMI has been a better balance between maintaining the NAV and dividends. Yes, I agree. Don't chase high yields!!😮. Thanks Ryne... Everything you said is 100% correct.
Thanks for tuning in!
If it's a covered call it follows tesla I need money I can't wait 50 years that I don't have for a mainstream stock
Kurve kinda has the same system set up but I think they actually own the shares I have a portfolio that has a bunch of yield max ETFs and I’m going to ride it out and see how it does for the year but I have a separate portfolio that has REITS and other ETFs with not such a high yield GL to everyone
Good luck my friend! Thanks for watching
The main differences with KURV invest is they trade 30 days out and at least 5 to 15 percent out of the money gives room for the upside, while still paying a decent dividend, Amzn Kurv trades up to 15 percent that’s the one I own.
Different folks Different strategies
100%
no you are getting ripped off by buying crap funds that will empty your pockets
What are your thoughts on MSTY?
I don’t like any of the yieldmax funds
$9+ in 3 month, you will get all $ back in 10 months, if compunded, maybe 9 month
Keep up the good content ❤😊
Thank you!
I put 100 bucks in just to track. Now worth $88 and that's with dive reinvested.
Oh dang! It was wild to see that it's lost more since inception with dividends reinvested than without dividends reinvested
@rynewilliams Every time I look at it reminds to stay focused, and if it seems to good it probably is.
All these kind of ETFs are great way to lose your money. Good luck
Awesome video. People will learn the hard way. I hope it's not a big loss for them
You need to educate the Khmers channel. Go live with this guy and save a bunch of people from his stupidity.
Lol 🤦🏽♂️
I haven't seen his channel...I'll have to check it out!
I enjoy watching his channel, it's kinda like watching a trainwreck in action. If you ignore his investment advices, he is a decent guy.
@@rynewilliamshe make about 7k a month his income grows every 3 months by 1k. Not bad even tho he’s down 50k.
@@rynewilliams his down like 50k but makes 7 k a month and his dividends grow 1k every 3 months.
TSLA will recover and so will TSLY hopefully.
We shall see!
A lot of people think covered call ETFs like JEPI are great for retirees. They are not. A basket of top notch dividend growth stocks are much, much better, especially for retirees.
I'm not retired, but trying to put myself in the shoes of someone who is, I wouldn't be comfortable with the idea of my income fluctuating every month. That is, unless I had a MAJOR cushion between my income and expenses.
Obviously, dividends from regular companies aren't guaranteed and can disappear any day, but it's hard to argue that they're not more predictable than dividends from covered call ETFs
@@rynewilliams Well said, Ryne. I totally agree with you.
Sounds like a bomb that could go off at any moment.. definitely not for me.
Agreed
This is the type of fund that represents someone investing whos chasing yield.
It seems that way for sure
I have been saying yield max funds are garbage
When they started this etf it started such an irrational frenzy for some misguided investors, it was upsetting Knowing some where pouring so much of their resources into it and how badly it was going to go for them. I feel like it's far to aggressively set up to ever recover when it takes a big hit.
Yea it was definitely too good to be true
glad I avoided this crap
I don't blame you!
Run for the hills. 😂
I don’t own TSLY (or TSLA) so don’t have a dog on this fight, but do you think it might be a bit too harsh to call this a “scam”?
I mean, this is so far a pretty bad fund, sure, but I understand other sister Yieldmax funds are doing better (at least so far), so perhaps this one just has had a particularly bad underlying (TSLA) and otherwise is significantly underperforming - but not because it’s a loser it’s necessary a scam, is it? Honest question, not trying to be contrarian.
I think investment products like these serve to benefit the companies who create them more than the actual shareholders of the fund. Investors are lured in by the ridiculously high yield, charged high expenses, and then end up losing money.
In the case of TSLY, specifically, you're paying someone a 1% annual fee to stuff your money into the garbage disposal. And then, you're led to believe that it's okay you're losing money because you're making so much in "income." There's a lot of tomfoolery going on, and in my opinion, it's scammy.
they will drain all of your money in fees
😂sounds like a rug pull is coming
Haha I think we're already in the midst of it
@@rynewilliams yep I think your right about that, it's gonna get ugly this week
There’s a couple of decent ones like cony but Tsly has been absolutely trash since its inception.
Yea CONY and NVDY have done well so far. We'll see what becomes of them if/when the tide changes for COIN and NVDA
@@rynewilliams same thing with TSLY. they tank.. cus they cant fully grab the upside.. but the full downside.. . you just own what suits ur needs and risk tolerance. see what the market does on annual base. and then with diversification you get the yield ont he circumstances... this and the old know way is comparing appels with pears! but still not a scam..
@@Albert87nl In what way is it not a scam? I keep seeing that claim, but there's never a coherent explanation that comes with it.
they all seem fine until they turn south and collapse
@@rynewilliams Don't worry Ryne I don't think he understands his point either
You're losing on both ends...
Very much so
You have a video on qqqy and jepy?
I don't! I rarely talk about covered call ETFs
@@rynewilliams are etf bad??? Just wondering
Qqqy was a total disaster for me after just 2 months. Honestly can’t believe such products are legal.
@@jamiedavis567 so don't invite in qqqy?? I was gonna buy 20 shares of it....