One of the consolations of being old is that I was a kid back in the era of Koufax ... and Aaron ... and Mays ... and Gibson ... and the list goes on. Just great baseball memories to reflect back upon.
Yep, I was 12 and was privileged to be able to see these great players play. Including the great Koufaxs' no no against the hated Giants. It was so much fun.
The very first Major League baseball game I ever saw in person was at Dodger Stadium in the summer of 1964. I was 12 years old. Sandy Koufax pitched. To this day, he is the best pitcher I ever saw!
I was 12 yrs old first Major League game I won Little League MVP as a young pitcher . Watching Sandy Koufax at Croseley Field in Cincinnati in 1965 . Wow ! What an incredible pitcher & Fastball & Curve was fantastic ! This was right before he retired at 30 years old . ⚾️👍👏😉
@@RicardoRoams wow 😮 that’s worth the ticket and so much more. I’m really honored to hear your story. I’ve always admired people that got the chance to see him pitch. He’s my favorite player of all time. Thank you for sharing
From 1962 to 1966, Koufax led the NL in lowest ERA, averaged 22 victories/season, pitched 4 no-hitters including a perfect game, and won 3 Cy Youngs during the time when MLB gave 1 award for both leagues. I don't think any pitcher has pitched better for a 5 consecutive year stretch.
Koufax only had about 5 good years, the first 5 were not so great. Total baseball time was just about ten years which barely makes him eligible for the Hall of Fame. If Koufax goes only 9 years, do they make an exception for him?
@@JENDALL714 Koufax didn't have 5 good years, he had 5 brilliant years as I've noted above, and at his very best, did any pitcher have a better 5-year consecutive stretch in the meat of their career? Pedro, Maddux, Seaver and Randy Johnson come quickly to mind in the post WW2 era, but were they better? It's not all about longevity, although he did play 12 years with only 2 losing seasons.
@@ProgressiveMovement200 Pedro was great , no question . But Koufax was starting every 4th day , went over 300 innings pitched and had seasons where he had 20+ complete games. Pedro''s work load was a lot less. You can counter with DH, steroids,etc. I'll side with Koufax but always a good debate when it comes to great SPs
The irony of the 63 Series was ex Yankee Bill Skowron hit 385 against his old team...when he was traded to the Dodgers his replacement the brash Joe Pepitone sent the Moose a telegram telling him "Moose I told u so"...in game 4 while Sandy was mowing down the Yankees Pepitone lost a perfect throw in the shirt sleeve crowd to retire from 3rd baseman Clete Boyer.. Jim Gilliam for an error..Gilliam went all the way to 3rd and scored the eventual winning run....when Hector Lopez grounded out to Maury Will...Moose got the last laugh with the final put out of the game...
Koufax is probably the greatest pitcher of all time. And in his final years he was doing it with arthritis. If he had been healthy, it wouldn't even be a question.
Joey Henson in his peak no pitcher was better imagine if he pitched in 68’ he probably would have put up phenomenal stars in that “year of the pitcher”
Staying healthy is part of the equation. There are a lot of "what if he had been healthy" arguments, but what made some of those players as great as they were was their willingness to push themselves to a point that just couldn't be sustained over a long period. All we should do is look at what they achieved and leave it at that.
Sandy was the first superstar I ever knew about when I was 5. Then Mays. I lived near Pittsburgh, and we got channel 2 which televised all the Pirate away games. I had the honor of watching Roberto Clemente in 81 games each summer. You had to watch Clemente day in and day out to fully appreciate him. How many players have the strongest throwing arm, the fastest speed and the best hitting ability combined? Not to mention the best baseball IQ and instincts. Many things are not reflected in record books. For instance, NOBODY tried for an extra base if the ball was hit near Clemente. He would throw anybody out at any time. If you hit a single to right field, you had to sprint to first or Clemente would throw you out at first from the outfield. These are things that box score stats do not show. The Pirates are the only MLB team to win a pennant without a good pitching staff. Their batting lineup was a murderer's row for opposing pitchers. Roberto was a riot in the clubhouse. He ALWAYS complained about his health. "Oh, my back kills me, my leg hurts, I can't bend my arm, I'll never be able to run tonight." But every night he was fine.
It just occurred to me that Koufax might have done the greatest damage to his elbow before he hit his stride and during those years when he was wild. Imagine if he had changed his mechanics two or three years earlier.
that’s how it was diagnosed at the time, as trauma arthritis. if he played 15 years later, it would have been correctly diagnosed as ucl damage, and he could’ve had tommy john to save his career
So true! The Dodger's, as a team, didn't hit a lick in those days! They relied primarily on Maury Wills getting on base, stealing second, getting pushed to third by Junior Gilliam, and driven in by Tommy Davis, Frank Howard or Ron Fairly! And Koufax would usually make that run stand up! What a pitcher he was!!!
I was lucky enough to sit next to Red Schoendiest at a wedding dinner. We talked baseball for almost two hours. He came up in 1945 and didn't leave baseball for 74 years! He said the most dominant pitching season he ever saw was Gibson in 1968 (highlighted by 2 earned runs in a 90 inning stretch in July/Aug), but the most dominant sustained pitching greatness was Koufax in the early- to mid-1960's. He said that Koufax tipped his curveball, so everyone knew it was coming....still didn't matter.
Not only did he tip his pitches, hitters were able to dig in against him. He didn't throw at hitters. That alone can drastically change a batter's odds, but against other pitchers. That's how incredible Koufax was.
Yes, for a seven year period of his 10 total years in the Majors, he was the best ever and there is no argument about it! I was 10 years old and living in NJ when in 1955 my Dodgers finally beat the Great NY Yankees in seven games and this became Sandy's Career as one of the greatest pitchers in Baseball History! Back then it was the Dodgers, Yankees and the Giants and I grew up in Baseball Heaven! What great Memories!
5-year period, YES. 7-year period, NO. Compared to league averages, Pedro Martinez, pitching a juiced baseball to juiced lineups which included a DH has the greatest 5-year peak of all-time, according to Bill James.
There is always that one guy you fear. Reggie Jackson had a good one too: "Nolan Ryan is the only pitcher who ever put fear into me" -- Reggie Jackson "I've never faced anyone who threw harder than Nolan Ryan" -- Hank Aaron. Ryan was a lot of people's nightmare back in his heyday. He was like facing Andres Chapman for 9 innings. I can't even imagine that.
The 1960's Dodgers were my team, then and forever. I was lucky enough to see Koufax pitch at Dodger Stadium more than once. Sandy was essentially GOD in Dodger Blue. Henry Aaron was my other favorite player of the era. (Interesting fact: Aaron hit. 362 lifetime against Koufax. Henry was that good. Look it up.)
Koufax was the best I ever saw. I was in high school when he was in his prime, but I followed him from when I was a 6 year old living in Brooklyn. I remained a Dodger fan for 20 years after the team left Brooklyn, so I watched as many Dodger games as possible in those days, and devoured the game stories and box scores every day. There are so many "what ifs" with Koufax...it is arguable that Alston badly misused him from '55-'60, and then overused him thereafter. In any case, for that incredible span from '62-'66, Koufax's pitching was otherwordly. I recommend that you all read the definitive biography of Koufax...."A Lefty's Legacy," by Jane Leeves.
Grew up in L.A. Was 16 yrs. old when I started realizing what Koufax was going to be. And that was GREAT. Saw him pitch and realized I was watching history. What a great time to grow up. There will be no other like him. I was privileged and I know that now. Thank you Sandy. In that time, I have a 1963 World Champion baseball signed by all the Dodgers. That is history and will never part with it.
somebody said" "sneaking a fastball past Henry Aaron was like trying to sneak the sunrise past a rooster. In Aaron's last year he beat Nolan Ryan 1-0 on a homer in the 9th inning (as I recall it.)
I met Sandy long after he had retired, and I don't think he'd gained a pound in those 20+ years. Also, he was a nice man, gracious and humble...something not so common among younger players. A gentleman.
What Selig forgot to mention is that Koufax hit a home run in the 8th inning to win the game 2-1. I was sitting in the left field bleachers which is where the ball landed.
Back when you could only see one game on t.v (no espn) and that was on a Saturday if you were a Dodger fan and koufax was pitching nothing gets done until after the game. HE WAS THE BEST
If you factor in greatness, longevity, consistency and dominance, Walter Johnson and Tom Seaver are the two greatest pitchers ever....hands down. But over a 5-year stretch, nobody and I mean nobody, was as great as Sandy Koufax. And that is why he is very very deservingly in the Hall of Fame..
@@THE-HammerMan Yeah.. I've heard of Bob Feller and Nolan Ryan. And Nolan Ryan was plagued by wildness most of his career and never ever won a Cy Young. And as tremendous as Bob Feller was, he simply was not as great as those two other guys. Tom Seaver and Walter Johnson are the only two pitchers in the history of this planet to be members of the triple 3 club. 300 wins..... 3000 strikeouts....and a lifetime E. R. A. under 3.00... which is an unparalleled combination, amalgamation, and culmination of greatness, longevity and dominance No...my statement is not flawed. You have a wonderful day.
"And don’t forget that most of the games Koufax won had low scores. The Dodgers back then weren’t hitting a lot of home runs" Damn, no kidding. Lou Johnson led the Dodgers in '65 with just 12 dingers. Here is a scenario that is hardly an exaggerated fantasy... after Dodger's opponents go out meekly in the top of the 1st, Wills, leading off the bottom of the inning, would slap a single through the infield, steal second, get to third on a fielder's choice (Baltimore chop) and score on a long flyout to center by Johnson. Inning over, Alston would put a hand on Koufax's left shoulder and say: ok, Sandy there's your run. Now, if you're not feeling it, don't worry 'bout a no-hitter but I know you've got the shutout.
When Koufax pitched his perfect game against the Cubs in September of 1965 the Dodgers scored one run and got a single hit---a hit which did not even factor into the run they scored.
You're so right! But I like to go back a couple of years to another left fielder who also was the RBI man for the Dodgers', Tommy Davis! He would drive Wills home and that run would usually be plenty for Koufax! The greatest left-hander of all-time, no question!!
@@wedge4hire That's true. As you know, TD had two HoF years but became, sadly, one of sports' (not just baseball) great "what ifs" after snapping his ankle (cleat caught sliding into 2nd, was it?). Like Pete Reiser (another Dodger great "could've been"...one too many wall crashings), Tommy was a thrill to watch. A quite helpful and worthy teammate of "the greatest left-hander of all time"!
@@kodalycat906 You're right on point again! TD could hit a baseball!! After '62 and '63 he was on his way to Cooperstown but that ankle break, sliding into second base changed everything. Sadly, he was never the same! I find it amazing we're talking about a Dodger team from 60 years ago! I love talking with people about the Dodger players back then. Willie Davis, Jim Gilliam, Ron Fairly, Wills, Frank Howard, Johnny Roseboro, Koufax, Drysdale, Johnny Podres and more! What a team that was!!
To put in perspective, how great Hank was, if he never hits a homerun his entire career, he still has 3,016 hits and is still a Hall of Famer! No one else can say that, Willie mays is the only other one that comes close, but he served 2 years in the Army, so that hurt his baseball career, same with Ted Williams.
tubewatcher38 - There is no doubt that Mays was one of the greatest players who ever played the game. But he actually hit more HR at Candlestick Park than he did on the road during his 14 seasons in SF. Mays hit more HR on the road in just FOUR of those 14 seasons (1959, 1960, 1965 & 1966). For that entire 14 year period, Mays hit 234 HR in SF and 225 on the road. During his time as a NY Giant (1951-57) Mays hit 94 HR at home and 93 on the road. So the facts indicate that Willie HR total wasn't hurt by playing in SF - at all. While Mays was hitting 9 more HR at home in his 14 seasons in SF (51% at home), Aaron was hitting 30 more HR on THE ROAD during his 14 seasons of playing in Milwaukee (45% at home). So if you are looking for a park that was hurting one of their HR totals... it wasn't SF - it was Milwaukee. In the end, over the course of their full careers... Aaron and Mays both hit 51% of their HR at their home ball parks. While Aaron was hurt by Milwaukee - he was aided by Atlanta (for the 9 seasons he played there).
people talk about Ted Williams missing 5 years of baseball due to military service...Spahn lost three full years in WWII...if he had averaged even15 wins a year during those years (his career average was 17 wins a year) - he'd have over 400 lifetime wins.
This story doesn’t hold up. Henry Aaron hit Koufax very, very, well. Henry was 42 for 116 (.342) with 6 doubles, 3 triples, 7 home runs, an OBP of .431, with a slugging percentage of .647. In an interview at the HOF in 2010, Henry was asked, “Who was the toughest pitcher you ever faced?”. Without hesitation he said, Tom Seaver (.205) followed by Bob Gibson (.215).
Does anyone know how many times Sandy Koufax faced off vs. Bob Gibson and what the stats are for that? I don't believe I ever saw the two of them go at it.
Koufax was the only Hall of Famer to retire at the very height of his career. His last two seasons (1965 & 1966) were his very best and arguably the best ever as noted below: 1965: 26 - 8, 1.73 ERA , 382 K’s, 71 BB’s, 27 Complete Games Cy Young Award 1966: 27 - 9, 2.04 ERA, 315 K’s, 77 BB’s 27 Complete Games Ct Young Award Koufax pitched 27 complete games in each of his last 2 seasons which was 1 more complete game than his wins, which means he pitched a complete game loss. He pitched those 54 complete games over his last 2 seasons with an arm that was hurt so badly, it forced him into retirement. The Dodgers at that time had one of the lowest scoring teams in MLB. If the team had averaged scoring just 2 runs when Koufax pitched, he wouldn’t have lost a game in either of his last 2 seasons.
Yeah being an early boomer has it’s advantages. 50-60’s Major league sports had some really crazy good athletes. Across all sports. But sixties pitching was insanely good. Not one team or pitcher today would even think of letting a guy go nine innings never mind doing it all season long. Good times!!
Spahn won 20 games 13 times. I going to say that again just in case it didn't sink in the 1st time. Spahn won 20 games THIRTEEN times. He did that despite spending his years of age 22 to 24 in WW2 military service & being in the Battle of the Bulge. He led the NL in wins 8X, CG 9X, ERA 3X, SO 4X, SHO 4X & IP 4X. He led NL Pitchers in PkOs 7X & fielding DP 5X. He is the only pitcher in the last 100 years to go more than 9 innings in 3 world series games. At age 42 he pitched 15 shutout innings in one game. He also, holds the NL record for career HRs hit by a pitcher with 35. Furthermore, Spahn pitched the vast majority of his career after intergration & before expansion. I'm describing the greatest LH pitcher of all-time & one of the top 3 pitchers in the last 120 years.
how about Spahn pitching 15 inning 0-0 game against the Giants' Juan Marichal...Mays hit a homer in the 16th to win it for the Giants...Spahn must have been around 40 for that one.
Maybe not the GOAT, but the most dominant pitcher in the shortest period (62-66) Batters feared going against him because he might make them look stupid!
Sandy Koufax, Henry Aaron, Willie Mays, Don Drysdale, Mickey Mantle, Joe Torre, and Bob Gibson, men of baseball, were class acts, humble, and excellent men (IMHO); many had regular off-season jobs and were in the military reserve. Sadly, today, sports (and society) have morphed into something from Area 51!
I convinced my step father to take me a Dodger Mets doubleheader with Koufax and Drysdale the starting pitchers. Game 1 Sandy threw a one hitter and lost on a Jim Hickman home run!
He didn't mention that Aaron had a very good career BA against Koufax, well over .300. Guys like Carty and Stargell had hardly a single hit. (I think Carty was hitless in 20 AB, but check to make sure.) I believe Clemente had some success against him, too. Most of the successful hitters were abysmal. Mantle said to the ump after a called strike three: "How do you expect me to hit that sh*t?"
I met Bud Selig, Hank Aaron and Willie Davis of the Green bay packers at different times at Jakes Corned beef in Milwaukee, Bud and Henry were really nice, Willie Davis kind of stand off ish .
Bud Selig is the center of a hilarious joke in the Miami area. Miami had a very famous radio sports guy named Hank Goldberg. You may know of him on ESPN as he is their top horse racing expert. Anyway, Goldberg CONSTANTLY belittled and complained about Selig when he did his daily broadcasts. One day, somehow, Goldberg actually got Bud Selig to speak live on the show. Everyone in Miami thought there would be fireworks. Just the opposite. Goldberg froze up and was the kindest, gentlest, patient human on the face of the earth. For 10 straight minutes Goldberg kissed Selig's butt. Yes Mr. Commissioner, no Mr. Commissioner, thank you Mr. Commissioner. Good idea Mr. Commissioner. Fantastic Mr. Commissioner. I thought that maybe I was the only one that noticed. I was wrong. Hank had a daily call-in show and whenever a caller had a disagreement with him, the caller would remind him of his cowardly interview with Bud Selig. This haunted Hank until his eventual retirement.
I was at that game too when Koufax no hit the Phillies, June 4th 1964 at Connie Mack Stadium. Booby Wine made the last out for the Phillies. Gene Mauch was the manager for the Phillies then. That game was the only game I ever saw Koufax pitch in person. Koufax was my idol
First one I know of was a guy named Lip Pike, who played in the 1880s. The first real superstar that I can think of was Hank Greenberg, who started playing for Detroit in the early 30s.
What made Koufax great is he was lucky to get 2-3 runs in support when he pitched , forget a bullpen , he went a full 9 innings back then , which was normal for most starting pitchers . Wes Parker or Sweet Lou Johnson would lead the team in HR's back then , maybe 12 for the year, meanwhile up the coast , the Giants had 3 guys doing 40 each per season .
Oh, is that all. He was the most dominant pitcher most people had ever seen for those 5 years. I am not arguing against Mattingly, but as great as he was in his prime, he didn't have years like Koufax.
Only 5 great years, but they were as great and dominant a 5 years as any pitcher in baseball history, with 3 Cy Youngs, 20+ win seasons, 4 no-hitters (incl. perfect game), and 5 consecutive years with the lowest ERA, if my memory is correct. Koufax deserves to be in Cooperstown. I see your point about Mattingly, but a more apt comparison would be with his contemporary, Kirby Puckett. Both played about the same number of years (14 vs 12) , both put up eerily similar numbers - HR's, RBI's, hits, OBP, OPS - however, Mattingly won 9 gold gloves and Pucket, 6. Advantage Puckett in number of lifetime hits, speed and the fact that he played a tougher position. If Puckett is in, then I could see Mattingly getting in the hall.
@@jamesanthony5681 is it your considered opinion that koufax is a shoe-in for the hall? then mattingly can afford to be less dominate than koufax. how many gold gloves did koufax win?
@@jameshudson169 Koufax for the Hall? Yes, no question whatsoever. You're comparing a position player with a pitcher and that is a bit problematic and difficult to do. Koufax was the *BEST* pitcher in baseball for that timeframe, despite Drysdale and Dean Chance winning Cy Youngs in '62 and '64, I believe. I made the case for Mattingly in Cooperstown by comparing his numbers with Puckett, *including* Gold Gloves won by each, looking at both their offense and defence.
Davan Mani - Mays played about a quarter of the season in 1952 before going into the service... and he was playing pretty poorly (.236 BA, .326 OBP, .409 SLG, .735 OPS with just 4 HR in 127 at bats). That figures to perhaps 16 HR for his 1952 season. He missed all of the 1953 season in the service. An argument can be made that Mays benefited greatly by having to go into the service. He went into the service after a season and a quarter with a career .266 BA, .348 OBP, .459 SLG, and .807 OPS. Mays went into the service a mediocre hitter... but came out as a changed man who had developed into the amazing player we all came to love. He led the NL in both BA (.345) and SLG (.667). He had a .411 OBP and a 1.078 OPS and was now one of the best hitters in the game. In regard to HR... Willie had hit one HR per each 32 at bats in 1952 - but upon his return after going into the service - he hit one HR per each 14 at bats. If Mays had not gone into service - he may have hit another 30 or 40 (or maybe even 50) more career HR... but on the other hand, if not for his stint in the service - Willie may have never developed into the great player he did become. It just might have been the best thing for him.
Willie played 34 games in 1952, yes, less than a quarter of the season, but there is no way that Willie Mays was going to end up with a .236 BA and 16-20 HR's if he had played a full season in 1952. He was a 20 year old kid in 1951 - a genius - who figured out major league pitching. IMO, going into the service neither helped nor hindered his development, aside from losing 40-60 HR's in his career. He may have had mediocre results, but at the time he left for the service, he was not a mediocre hitter. Warren Spahn would NOT have classified him as a 'mediocre' hitter.
@@jamesanthony5681 - The stats are the stats. Mays had these career batting stats before he went into the service: (.266 BA, .348 OBP, .459 SLG, .807 OPS)... and these were his stats in 1954 after he had spent his time in the military: (.345 BA, .411 OBP, .667 SLG, 1.078 OPS). The difference between his numbers BEFORE going into the service... and then what he did AFTER coming out of the service - is HUGE. He was the league BA and Slg% leader upon his return. He had been mediocre in both BA (.266) and SLG (.459) before he went into the service. It just might be... that going into the service played a big role in turning that young man into a much stronger, better version of what he had been - before going into the service. You can choose to believe his time in the service did nothing to make him a better player if you want... but the facts are the facts. He was a HOF player upon his return to MLB... while he was clearly not hitting at a HOF level before going into the service.
@@aBeatleFan4ever Point taken. My point was the the service neither helped nor hindered Willie in his development, although yes, he very well could have gotten stronger, more mature, etc., from his time away. Although Willie did not have HOF stats, pre-military, there was a period of adjustment in 1951 where he was figuring out big league pitching, much like Mickey Mantle in his rookie year, or any rookie for that matter. Mike Schmidt is an example where he hit .196 in his rookie year, 1973. For Willie, after coming from the Minneapolis Millers where he was hitting .477, the adjustment was larger than he thought. But once he figured it out, the point at which he left for the army, he was not a mediocre hitter. Had he played a full 1952, I believe he would have had a monster year, despite those low numbers for 34 games. It is remarkable that after almost 2 years away from the big leagues, he stepped right in and had an MVP season in 1954. Leo Durocher's influence was HUGE for Willie, and can't be overstated.
Mays was the best athlete of his generation, but the best player was Yogi Berra by far. Berra won the World Series 10 times to Mays 1, and Berra was the catcher, probably the most important position on the team. If Mays was playing on the Yankees teams of the 50's and 60's he'd be without question the greatest, but unfortunately he was sent to that nightmarish stadium Candlestick Park in San Francisco
@@jamesanthony5681 military service made him stronger physically and matured his mental attitude. Yogi, Ted, Spahn, etc etc all came out of the service better.
It's unfortunate for Koufax that the Tommy Jon surgery came after him. I believe that if Koufax had gotten that surgery, he would've been considered the goat.
That's a misleading statistic, though, because Sandy Koufax only started becoming a great pitcher in 1961. From 1955 to 1960, Aaron hit .475 (19 for 40) off of Koufax; from 1961 to 1966, he hit .295 (23 for 78); and if you narrow it down to Koufax's last four years, when he was truly dominant, it goes down to .214 (9 for 42).
It's misleading because Aaron hit Koufax better when Koufax wasn't very good, which is not a very impressive thing to do. '55-'60 Koufax had an ERA of 4.10.
Look Koufax is obviously one of the greatest. I'm a Dodger fan and one of the few Jewish athletes to look up to. But Hank Aaron had a much better career. And if in the whole span he averaged .372 against one of the best of all time, just shows to Hanks greatness.
Koufax is HUGELY overrated. He had 5 good seasons. That's it. Let us not forget that he was a huge offender of sliming the baseball with Vaseline and hair grease before EVERY pitch. Warren Spahn was much better. Hank Aaron for the win.
How could you compare Henry Aaron the Sandy Koufax Henry Aaron had 20 great major-league Seasons where he contributed a lot 20 Seasons Sandy Koufax only had three grade Seasons out of 12 The Nine Season Sandy Koufax was an average or below-average picture Anna 1966 World Series he could not even win one baseball game so I just got blown out you can't compare the great career of Henry Aaron to the brief shining of Colfax
Sandy Koufax was an average pitcher his first six seasons. His last six seasons he had an ERA of 2.19 and an ERA+ of 154, and an average of 22 wins and 286 strikeouts per season. He played in 4 World Series in his career, during which he compiled a 0.98 ERA in 57 innings pitched. As for 1966, the Dodgers lost in 4 games and Koufax started one of those games, allowing a single earned run in 6 innings pitched. Blaming Sandy for that game (or that series) would be like blaming Henry Aaron for the Braves' loss to the Yankees in 1958, when he batted so you can't exactly blame him for the loss, when he batted .333 over seven games, but had no home runs, and only 2 RBI's.
@@calguy3838 Koufax played in 6 world series 1956 1959 1963 1965 and 1966. He only had 2 superlative world series 1963 and 1965. The other 3 world series 1956 1959 and 1966 he stunk and was worthless to his team. He only had 3 great seasons and 2 great ws as compared to 9 lousy seasons and 3 below par WS that didn't help his team. At 165 wins he doesn't deserve hall of fame credentials
@@danielshanetzky3714 Koufax did not play in the 1955 World Series (which, I'm guessing, is the sixth World Series you meant, since you only listed five). He also did not play in the 1956 World Series. In 1959, he appeared in two games, pitched 9 innings, allowed a single earned run, struck out seven and walked one; every manager in baseball would love to have a staff of pitchers who "stink" like that. I've already given you his stats for the 1966 Series; it was the worst of the World Series he played, though the sample size is small, and he hardly stunk. The Dodgers lost that year because the two runs they scored in Game 1 were the only runs they scored in the entire series. And it's laughable to say that Sandy Koufax was "lousy" apart from his three great seasons. I gave you his cumulative stats for his last SIX seasons, but I neglected to mention that in every one of those last six seasons he was an All Star, and also got MVP votes at the end of each season. He also led the league in Fielding Independent Pitching each of those seasons. In his "lousy" season of 1964 he went 19-5 with a 1.74 ERA and finished 3rd in Cy Young voting despite injuries limiting him to 29 starts (which is more or less a full season's worth of starts in today's game). Finally, in his first six seasons he was not a great pitcher, and certainly did not pitch like a future Hall of Famer. But his cumulative ERA+ for those seasons was 100 which was exactly average, and is only "lousy" in comparison to how he pitched the rest of his career.
@@calguy3838 you were correct I did make a few miscues But you have to admit the first half of Koufax pitching career he was ineffective a nonentity a waste from 1955 to 1960 a big zero. In 1956 if Koufax would have shown something maybe he could have helped the brooklyn dodgers win the 1956 world series like his fellow youngster teammate Johnny Padres did in 1955. Podres.. Was in the military in 1956. If Koufax could have pulled his jockstrap weight in 1956 and played in the 1956 world series and brooklyn would have won the title maybe that disgusting ape walter O'Malley my apologies to apes wouldn't have stole the team to Los Angeles
@@calguy3838 alot of MLB were able to string together 3 great seasons like Koufax but didn't deserve the honor of being in the Bsseball hall of fame like Ron Guidry Denny McClain Thurman Munson micky rivers etc. It's not fair double standards
Jewish baseball?? sounds stupid to me. I watched Jim Palmer whoop Koufax and the Dodgers 6-0 in the second game of the World Series in 1966 in Dodger Stadium. I do not know what religion Palmer is, but why should that matter??? Jewish baseball........
Don Davis Jewish doesn’t matter. Neither does your one game comparison! How many earned runs? How many errors did Willie Davis commit? Yes, even with these factors, Palmer outpitched Sandy this one game! Ask Palmer about Koufax?
@@jossposs6111 - Exactly. The Dodgers made 6 errors in that game, and there was another triple that most agree should also have been charged an error, on a miscommunication between outfielders. It was 4-0 in the 7th when Koufax left the game. Even Palmer admitted when congratulated on the game for beating Koufax, "I didn't beat Koufax, Willie Davis beat Koufax!"
And a lot of people who shoot off their mouths on these forums tend to overlook the fact that most of the games Koufax won had low scores. The Dodgers back weren’t known for the long ball.
One of the consolations of being old is that I was a kid back in the era of Koufax ... and Aaron ... and Mays ... and Gibson ... and the list goes on. Just great baseball memories to reflect back upon.
Magical innocent times, weren't they?
Yep, I was 12 and was privileged to be able to see these great players play. Including the great Koufaxs' no no against the hated Giants. It was so much fun.
You also had some amazing music for the soundtrack of your youth.....
They were all tough guys.
and Clemente
I`m glad I was on the planet to see Koufax and Secretariat
The very first Major League baseball game I ever saw in person was at Dodger Stadium in the summer of 1964. I was 12 years old. Sandy Koufax pitched. To this day, he is the best pitcher I ever saw!
I was 12 yrs old first Major League game I won Little League MVP as a young pitcher .
Watching Sandy Koufax at Croseley Field in Cincinnati in 1965 .
Wow ! What an incredible pitcher &
Fastball & Curve was fantastic !
This was right before he retired at 30 years old . ⚾️👍👏😉
Wow.. that’s amazing and you are lucky to have seen his greatnesses in person.. I wish I was alive to have seen him pitch back then.
@@ms-iz9ye , I neglected to mention that the opponents that Koufax faced that day were Willie Mays and the Giants. Talk about greatness!
@@RicardoRoams wow 😮 that’s worth the ticket and so much more. I’m really honored to hear your story. I’ve always admired people that got the chance to see him pitch. He’s my favorite player of all time. Thank you for sharing
From 1962 to 1966, Koufax led the NL in lowest ERA, averaged 22 victories/season, pitched 4 no-hitters including a perfect game, and won 3 Cy Youngs during the time when MLB gave 1 award for both leagues. I don't think any pitcher has pitched better for a 5 consecutive year stretch.
Koufax only had about 5 good years, the first 5 were not so great. Total baseball time was just about ten years which barely makes him eligible for the Hall of Fame. If Koufax goes only 9 years, do they make an exception for him?
@@JENDALL714 Koufax didn't have 5 good years, he had 5 brilliant years as I've noted above, and at his very best, did any pitcher have a better 5-year consecutive stretch in the meat of their career? Pedro, Maddux, Seaver and Randy Johnson come quickly to mind in the post WW2 era, but were they better? It's not all about longevity, although he did play 12 years with only 2 losing seasons.
@@jamesanthony5681 Pedro I would give the nod to, over Koufax. 97-03. Great 6 year stretch.
@@ProgressiveMovement200 Yes they were. A great stretch with an average ERA under 2.50, especially in a league with the DH and during the steroid era.
@@ProgressiveMovement200 Pedro was great , no question . But Koufax was starting every 4th day , went over 300 innings pitched and had seasons where he had 20+ complete games. Pedro''s work load was a lot less. You can counter with DH, steroids,etc. I'll side with Koufax but always a good debate when it comes to great SPs
Sandy was one of my favorite ball players as a kid growing up.
Retire before 32 and still be considered the greatest; definitely top 10 SP All Time.
I lived in LA for two years as a kid during Koufax peak and saw him mow down my Yankees and everyone else. SIMPLY THE BEST
The irony of the 63 Series was ex Yankee Bill Skowron hit 385 against his old team...when he was traded to the Dodgers his replacement the brash Joe Pepitone sent the Moose a telegram telling him "Moose I told u so"...in game 4 while Sandy was mowing down the Yankees Pepitone lost a perfect throw in the shirt sleeve crowd to retire from 3rd baseman Clete Boyer.. Jim Gilliam for an error..Gilliam went all the way to 3rd and scored the eventual winning run....when Hector Lopez grounded out to Maury Will...Moose got the last laugh with the final put out of the game...
I am a LA born Kid. I grew up with watch and going to my beloved Dodgers. It's nice to see this on how 2 legends had so much respect for each other.
Koufax is probably the greatest pitcher of all time. And in his final years he was doing it with arthritis. If he had been healthy, it wouldn't even be a question.
Joe Henson there’s no ‘probably’ about it
Joey Henson in his peak no pitcher was better imagine if he pitched in 68’ he probably would have put up phenomenal stars in that “year of the pitcher”
What planet do you live on.
Staying healthy is part of the equation. There are a lot of "what if he had been healthy" arguments, but what made some of those players as great as they were was their willingness to push themselves to a point that just couldn't be sustained over a long period. All we should do is look at what they achieved and leave it at that.
Then he should’ve pitched less innings then he would’ve been healthy. He’s lucky his arm didn’t fall off
Sandy was the first superstar I ever knew about when I was 5. Then Mays. I lived near Pittsburgh, and we got channel 2 which televised all the Pirate away games.
I had the honor of watching Roberto Clemente in 81 games each summer. You had to watch Clemente day in and day out to fully appreciate him.
How many players have the strongest throwing arm, the fastest speed and the best hitting ability combined? Not to mention the best baseball IQ and instincts.
Many things are not reflected in record books.
For instance, NOBODY tried for an extra base if the ball was hit near Clemente. He would throw anybody out at any time.
If you hit a single to right field, you had to sprint to first or Clemente would throw you out at first from the outfield.
These are things that box score stats do not show.
The Pirates are the only MLB team to win a pennant without a good pitching staff. Their batting lineup was a murderer's row for opposing pitchers.
Roberto was a riot in the clubhouse. He ALWAYS complained about his health. "Oh, my back kills me, my leg hurts, I can't bend my arm, I'll never be able to run tonight."
But every night he was fine.
Not to mention Clemente's malaria. Which he always did.
Willie Stargell was asked what was the high point of his career and he said "the day Koufax retired."
The best pitcher I ever saw
It just occurred to me that Koufax might have done the greatest damage to his elbow before he hit his stride and during those years when he was wild.
Imagine if he had changed his mechanics two or three years earlier.
He hurt it in a base running incident.
that’s how it was diagnosed at the time, as trauma arthritis. if he played 15 years later, it would have been correctly diagnosed as ucl damage, and he could’ve had tommy john to save his career
And don’t forget that most of the games Koufax won had low scores.
The Dodgers back then weren’t hitting a lot of home runs.
So true! The Dodger's, as a team, didn't hit a lick in those days! They relied primarily on Maury Wills getting on base, stealing second, getting pushed to third by
Junior Gilliam, and driven in by Tommy Davis, Frank Howard or Ron Fairly! And Koufax would usually make that run stand up! What a pitcher he was!!!
@@wedge4hire Damn right. At least Drysdale could drive in his own runs; Koufax was no threat at the plate.
@@soaringvulture So true!! Drysdale could hit but Koufax was a disaster with a bat in his hand! I forgot how good a hitter Don was!
When I was a kid I idolized Koufax. Still haven't seen his likes again.
I was lucky enough to sit next to Red Schoendiest at a wedding dinner. We talked baseball for almost two hours. He came up in 1945 and didn't leave baseball for 74 years! He said the most dominant pitching season he ever saw was Gibson in 1968 (highlighted by 2 earned runs in a 90 inning stretch in July/Aug), but the most dominant sustained pitching greatness was Koufax in the early- to mid-1960's. He said that Koufax tipped his curveball, so everyone knew it was coming....still didn't matter.
Not only did he tip his pitches, hitters were able to dig in against him. He didn't throw at hitters. That alone can drastically change a batter's odds, but against other pitchers. That's how incredible Koufax was.
Yes, for a seven year period of his 10 total years in the Majors, he was the best ever and there is no argument about it! I was 10 years old and living in NJ when in 1955 my Dodgers finally beat the Great NY Yankees in seven games and this became Sandy's Career as one of the greatest pitchers in Baseball History! Back then it was the Dodgers, Yankees and the Giants and I grew up in Baseball Heaven! What great Memories!
2022 is starting off pretty great with both the Mets and the Yankees leading their leagues in wins. I'm having a blast!
5-year period, YES. 7-year period, NO. Compared to league averages, Pedro Martinez, pitching a juiced baseball to juiced lineups which included a DH has the greatest 5-year peak of all-time, according to Bill James.
Sandy Koufax told me that Henry Aaron was the hitter that he feared the most.
There is always that one guy you fear. Reggie Jackson had a good one too:
"Nolan Ryan is the only pitcher who ever put fear into me" -- Reggie Jackson
"I've never faced anyone who threw harder than Nolan Ryan" -- Hank Aaron.
Ryan was a lot of people's nightmare back in his heyday. He was like facing Andres Chapman for 9 innings. I can't even imagine that.
The 1960's Dodgers were my team, then and forever. I was lucky enough to see Koufax pitch at Dodger Stadium more than once. Sandy was essentially GOD in Dodger Blue. Henry Aaron was my other favorite player of the era. (Interesting fact: Aaron hit. 362 lifetime against Koufax. Henry was that good. Look it up.)
Sandy Koufax's secret to greatness is that he had the Left Arm of G-d
Koufax was the best I ever saw. I was in high school when he was in his prime, but I followed him from when I was a 6 year old living in Brooklyn. I remained a Dodger fan for 20 years after the team left Brooklyn, so I watched as many Dodger games as possible in those days, and devoured the game stories and box scores every day.
There are so many "what ifs" with Koufax...it is arguable that Alston badly misused him from '55-'60, and then overused him thereafter. In any case, for that incredible span from '62-'66, Koufax's pitching was otherwordly.
I recommend that you all read the definitive biography of Koufax...."A Lefty's Legacy," by Jane Leeves.
Grew up in L.A. Was 16 yrs. old when I started realizing what Koufax was going to be. And that was GREAT. Saw him pitch and realized I was watching history. What a great time to grow up. There will be no other like him. I was privileged and I know that now. Thank you Sandy. In that time, I have a 1963 World Champion baseball signed by all the Dodgers. That is history and will never part with it.
Great story, stuff of legends
somebody said" "sneaking a fastball past Henry Aaron was like trying to sneak the sunrise past a rooster. In Aaron's last year he beat Nolan Ryan 1-0 on a homer in the 9th inning (as I recall it.)
THE "BESTS" OF THE "BESTS"👍
I met Sandy long after he had retired, and I don't think he'd gained a pound in those 20+ years. Also, he was a nice man, gracious and humble...something not so common among younger players. A gentleman.
The great Bob Uecker (great comedian, so-so MLB catcher) said the high point of his career was an intentional walk from Sandy Koufax.
hahahahaha, I wonder if it really happened, or if Bob was making a joke. Sandy could strike Bob out with 3 pitches.
"a good day against Sandy was 3 strikeouts and a walk"
What Selig forgot to mention is that Koufax hit a home run in the 8th inning to win the game 2-1. I was sitting in the left field bleachers which is where the ball landed.
He also forgot to mention that Aaron had a .362 life time batting average against Koufax.
this is great!!
Back when you could only see one game on t.v (no espn) and that was on a Saturday if you were a Dodger fan and koufax was pitching nothing gets done until after the game.
HE WAS THE BEST
Koufax didn't pitch on Saturdays if my memory serves me well. You must be mistaken.
If you factor in greatness, longevity, consistency and dominance, Walter Johnson and Tom Seaver are the two greatest pitchers ever....hands down. But over a 5-year stretch, nobody and I mean nobody, was as great as Sandy Koufax. And that is why he is very very deservingly in the Hall of Fame..
I guess you never heard of Feller or Nolan or.... Your statement is flawed. Go with your opinion, but they're not "hands down" the greatest.
@@THE-HammerMan Yeah.. I've heard of Bob Feller and Nolan Ryan. And Nolan Ryan was plagued by wildness most of his career and never ever won a Cy Young. And as tremendous as Bob Feller was, he simply was not as great as those two other guys. Tom Seaver and Walter Johnson are the only two pitchers in the history of this planet to be members of the triple 3 club. 300 wins..... 3000 strikeouts....and a lifetime E. R. A. under 3.00... which is an unparalleled combination, amalgamation, and culmination of greatness, longevity and dominance No...my statement is not flawed. You have a wonderful day.
"And don’t forget that most of the games Koufax won had low scores. The Dodgers back then weren’t hitting a lot of home runs" Damn, no kidding. Lou Johnson led the Dodgers in '65 with just 12 dingers. Here is a scenario that is hardly an exaggerated fantasy... after Dodger's opponents go out meekly in the top of the 1st, Wills, leading off the bottom of the inning, would slap a single through the infield, steal second, get to third on a fielder's choice (Baltimore chop) and score on a long flyout to center by Johnson. Inning over, Alston would put a hand on Koufax's left shoulder and say: ok, Sandy there's your run. Now, if you're not feeling it, don't worry 'bout a no-hitter but I know you've got the shutout.
When Koufax pitched his perfect game against the Cubs in September of 1965 the Dodgers scored one run and got a single hit---a hit which did not even factor into the run they scored.
You're so right! But I like to go back a couple of years to another left fielder who also was the RBI man for the Dodgers', Tommy Davis! He would drive Wills home
and that run would usually be plenty for Koufax! The greatest left-hander of all-time, no question!!
@@wedge4hire That's true. As you know, TD had two HoF years but became, sadly, one of sports' (not just baseball) great "what ifs" after snapping his ankle (cleat caught sliding into 2nd, was it?). Like Pete Reiser (another Dodger great "could've been"...one too many wall crashings), Tommy was a thrill to watch. A quite helpful and worthy teammate of "the greatest left-hander of all time"!
@@kodalycat906 You're right on point again! TD could hit a baseball!! After '62 and '63 he was on his way to Cooperstown but that ankle break, sliding into second base changed everything. Sadly, he was never the same! I find it amazing we're talking about a Dodger team from 60 years ago! I love talking with people about the Dodger players back then. Willie Davis, Jim Gilliam, Ron Fairly, Wills, Frank Howard, Johnny Roseboro, Koufax, Drysdale, Johnny Podres and more! What a team that was!!
To put in perspective, how great Hank was, if he never hits a homerun his entire career, he still has 3,016 hits and is still a Hall of Famer! No one else can say that, Willie mays is the only other one that comes close, but he served 2 years in the Army, so that hurt his baseball career, same with Ted Williams.
Aaron was great. Willie lost about 10-15 hr's every year in SF. Williams lost close to 200 in the service.
Many other players can say that.
JENDALL714 Hank had over 3700 hits
tubewatcher38 Willie lost 2years to service as well.
tubewatcher38 - There is no doubt that Mays was one of the greatest players who ever played the game. But he actually hit more HR at Candlestick Park than he did on the road during his 14 seasons in SF. Mays hit more HR on the road in just FOUR of those 14 seasons (1959, 1960, 1965 & 1966). For that entire 14 year period, Mays hit 234 HR in SF and 225 on the road. During his time as a NY Giant (1951-57) Mays hit 94 HR at home and 93 on the road. So the facts indicate that Willie HR total wasn't hurt by playing in SF - at all.
While Mays was hitting 9 more HR at home in his 14 seasons in SF (51% at home), Aaron was hitting 30 more HR on THE ROAD during his 14 seasons of playing in Milwaukee (45% at home). So if you are looking for a park that was hurting one of their HR totals... it wasn't SF - it was Milwaukee.
In the end, over the course of their full careers... Aaron and Mays both hit 51% of their HR at their home ball parks. While Aaron was hurt by Milwaukee - he was aided by Atlanta (for the 9 seasons he played there).
Koufax Aaron legends of the game.
Bud was the best commissioner in baseball history.
people talk about Ted Williams missing 5 years of baseball due to military service...Spahn lost three full years in WWII...if he had averaged even15 wins a year during those years (his career average was 17 wins a year) - he'd have over 400 lifetime wins.
Willie Mays was the greatest ballplayer of that generation Hank was #2
Sandy at his best was the best pitcher I saw.
That's how I remember it also, preferring the NL to the AL, but Mickey Mantle was around then too.
This story doesn’t hold up. Henry Aaron hit Koufax very, very, well. Henry was 42 for 116 (.342) with 6 doubles, 3 triples, 7 home runs, an OBP of .431, with a slugging percentage of .647. In an interview at the HOF in 2010, Henry was asked, “Who was the toughest pitcher you ever faced?”. Without hesitation he said, Tom Seaver (.205) followed by Bob Gibson (.215).
hank aaron was a speed user. not like steroids today but speed helps you see the ball way better
Does anyone know how many times Sandy Koufax faced off vs. Bob Gibson and what the stats are for that? I don't believe I ever saw the two of them go at it.
Sandy! The end.
Koufax was the only Hall of Famer to retire at the very height of his career. His last two seasons (1965 & 1966) were his very best and arguably the best ever as noted below:
1965:
26 - 8, 1.73 ERA , 382 K’s, 71 BB’s,
27 Complete Games
Cy Young Award
1966:
27 - 9, 2.04 ERA, 315 K’s, 77 BB’s
27 Complete Games
Ct Young Award
Koufax pitched 27 complete games in each of his last 2 seasons which was 1 more complete game than his wins, which means he pitched a complete game loss. He pitched those 54 complete games over his last 2 seasons with an arm that was hurt so badly, it forced him into retirement.
The Dodgers at that time had one of the lowest scoring teams in MLB. If the team had averaged scoring just 2 runs when Koufax pitched, he wouldn’t have lost a game in either of his last 2 seasons.
Yeah being an early boomer has it’s advantages. 50-60’s Major league sports had some really crazy good athletes. Across all sports. But sixties pitching was insanely good. Not one team or pitcher today would even think of letting a guy go nine innings never mind doing it all season long. Good times!!
Spahn won 20 games 13 times. I going to say that again just in case it didn't sink in the 1st time. Spahn won 20 games THIRTEEN times. He did that despite spending his years of age 22 to 24 in WW2 military service & being in the Battle of the Bulge. He led the NL in wins 8X, CG 9X, ERA 3X, SO 4X, SHO 4X & IP 4X. He led NL Pitchers in PkOs 7X & fielding DP 5X. He is the only pitcher in the last 100 years to go more than 9 innings in 3 world series games. At age 42 he pitched 15 shutout innings in one game. He also, holds the NL record for career HRs hit by a pitcher with 35. Furthermore, Spahn pitched the vast majority of his career after intergration & before expansion. I'm describing the greatest LH pitcher of all-time & one of the top 3 pitchers in the last 120 years.
how about Spahn pitching 15 inning 0-0 game against the Giants' Juan Marichal...Mays hit a homer in the 16th to win it for the Giants...Spahn must have been around 40 for that one.
Twenty games in thirteen seasons… can’t beat that.
@@michaelmiller2397 He said that "at age 42 he pitched 15 shutout innings in one game". I'm sure it's the same game.
Maybe not the GOAT, but the most dominant pitcher in the shortest period (62-66) Batters feared going against him because he might make them look stupid!
stupider.
There was one other pitcher that Hank Aaron didn't like facing. That was Nolan Ryan.
Aaron said that nobody he ever faced through as hard as Ryan
Sandy Koufax, Henry Aaron, Willie Mays, Don Drysdale, Mickey Mantle, Joe Torre, and Bob Gibson, men of baseball, were class acts, humble, and excellent men (IMHO); many had regular off-season jobs and were in the military reserve. Sadly, today, sports (and society) have morphed into something from Area 51!
Norm Sherry supposedly told Koufax to take a little off his fastball in order to get it over...he did...and the rest, as they say.....
Yep. Told him it wasn't necessary to throw at 100% to get guys out.
27 complete games! Today’s pitchers can’t throw 120 pitches. How soft have we become as a nation.
But could have cost him a couple extra seasons.
great story by Bud. Sandy was the best in his short career
I convinced my step father to take me a Dodger Mets doubleheader with Koufax and Drysdale the starting pitchers. Game 1 Sandy threw a one hitter and lost on a Jim Hickman home run!
He didn't mention that Aaron had a very good career BA against Koufax, well over .300. Guys like Carty and Stargell had hardly a single hit. (I think Carty was hitless in 20 AB, but check to make sure.) I believe Clemente had some success against him, too. Most of the successful hitters were abysmal. Mantle said to the ump after a called strike three: "How do you expect me to hit that sh*t?"
Stargell was left handed. Big difference.
That “quote” by mantle is extremely questionable.
Aaron hit .362 with power against koufax.
Clemente hit .297 with power against koufax.
@@sludge8506 Why?
Koufax had to retire at 30 due to elbow problems. Today, he would have had surgery which would have added years to his career.
Best ever. No one like him.
I met Bud Selig, Hank Aaron and Willie Davis of the Green bay packers at different times at Jakes Corned beef in Milwaukee, Bud and Henry were really nice, Willie Davis kind of stand off ish .
Throwing a curve like that will destroy your elbow quickly.
Thanks doc
Curve came in and just disapeared downward. Fastball had plenty of juice too... he was awesome yes...
In an interview, Pete Rose picked up an apple and dropped it. "That's how much his curveball broke!" Brutal!
Agree 100%
Koufax' fastball was all over the map until Dodger catcher Norm Sherry told him, forget all that velocity, get the ball over the plate.
Bud Selig is the center of a hilarious joke in the Miami area.
Miami had a very famous radio sports guy named Hank Goldberg. You may know of him on ESPN as he is their top horse racing expert.
Anyway, Goldberg CONSTANTLY belittled and complained about Selig when he did his daily broadcasts.
One day, somehow, Goldberg actually got Bud Selig to speak live on the show.
Everyone in Miami thought there would be fireworks.
Just the opposite.
Goldberg froze up and was the kindest, gentlest, patient human on the face of the earth. For 10 straight minutes Goldberg kissed Selig's butt.
Yes Mr. Commissioner, no Mr. Commissioner, thank you Mr. Commissioner. Good idea Mr. Commissioner. Fantastic Mr. Commissioner.
I thought that maybe I was the only one that noticed. I was wrong.
Hank had a daily call-in show and whenever a caller had a disagreement with him, the caller would remind him of his cowardly interview with Bud Selig.
This haunted Hank until his eventual retirement.
1964 sandy koufax throws a no hitter against the phillies. I was at the game - he was the best.
I was at that game too when Koufax no hit the Phillies, June 4th 1964 at Connie Mack Stadium. Booby Wine made the last out for the Phillies. Gene Mauch was the manager for the Phillies then. That game was the only game I ever saw Koufax pitch in person. Koufax was my idol
Who else ya got?
Who were the first Jewish baseball players, what year?
First one I know of was a guy named Lip Pike, who played in the 1880s.
The first real superstar that I can think of was Hank Greenberg, who started playing for Detroit in the early 30s.
Lipman Pike is credited by some sources as being literally the first professional baseball player.
Moe Berg played in 1923
What made Koufax great is he was lucky to get 2-3 runs in support when he pitched , forget a bullpen , he went a full 9 innings back then , which was normal for most starting pitchers . Wes Parker or Sweet Lou Johnson would lead the team in HR's back then , maybe 12 for the year, meanwhile up the coast , the Giants had 3 guys doing 40 each per season .
A little before my time but in too 5 in history
Aaron hit .362 with 7 home runs against Koufax.
if koufax can get in the hall of fame, mattingly should be in the hall of fame. koufax only has five great years!
Oh, is that all. He was the most dominant pitcher most people had ever seen for those 5 years. I am not arguing against Mattingly, but as great as he was in his prime, he didn't have years like Koufax.
Only 5 great years, but they were as great and dominant a 5 years as any pitcher in baseball history, with 3 Cy Youngs, 20+ win seasons, 4 no-hitters (incl. perfect game), and 5 consecutive years with the lowest ERA, if my memory is correct. Koufax deserves to be in Cooperstown.
I see your point about Mattingly, but a more apt comparison would be with his contemporary, Kirby Puckett. Both played about the same number of years (14 vs 12) , both put up eerily similar numbers - HR's, RBI's, hits, OBP, OPS - however, Mattingly won 9 gold gloves and Pucket, 6. Advantage Puckett in number of lifetime hits, speed and the fact that he played a tougher position. If Puckett is in, then I could see Mattingly getting in the hall.
@@jamesanthony5681 is it your considered opinion that koufax is a shoe-in for the hall? then mattingly can afford to be less dominate than koufax. how many gold gloves did koufax win?
@@jameshudson169 Koufax for the Hall? Yes, no question whatsoever.
You're comparing a position player with a pitcher and that is a bit problematic and difficult to do. Koufax was the *BEST* pitcher in baseball for that timeframe, despite Drysdale and Dean Chance winning Cy Youngs in '62 and '64, I believe.
I made the case for Mattingly in Cooperstown by comparing his numbers with Puckett, *including* Gold Gloves won by each, looking at both their offense and defence.
@@jamesanthony5681 i made the case for mattingly for cooperstown comparing him to koufax. it's a fair comparison.
Who won mor games in the 60’s ? Juan Marichal SF Giants.
Davan Mani - Mays played about a quarter of the season in 1952 before going into the service... and he was playing pretty poorly (.236 BA, .326 OBP, .409 SLG, .735 OPS with just 4 HR in 127 at bats). That figures to perhaps 16 HR for his 1952 season. He missed all of the 1953 season in the service. An argument can be made that Mays benefited greatly by having to go into the service. He went into the service after a season and a quarter with a career .266 BA, .348 OBP, .459 SLG, and .807 OPS. Mays went into the service a mediocre hitter... but came out as a changed man who had developed into the amazing player we all came to love. He led the NL in both BA (.345) and SLG (.667). He had a .411 OBP and a 1.078 OPS and was now one of the best hitters in the game.
In regard to HR... Willie had hit one HR per each 32 at bats in 1952 - but upon his return after going into the service - he hit one HR per each 14 at bats. If Mays had not gone into service - he may have hit another 30 or 40 (or maybe even 50) more career HR... but on the other hand, if not for his stint in the service - Willie may have never developed into the great player he did become. It just might have been the best thing for him.
Willie played 34 games in 1952, yes, less than a quarter of the season, but there is no way that Willie Mays was going to end up with a .236 BA and 16-20 HR's if he had played a full season in 1952. He was a 20 year old kid in 1951 - a genius - who figured out major league pitching. IMO, going into the service neither helped nor hindered his development, aside from losing 40-60 HR's in his career. He may have had mediocre results, but at the time he left for the service, he was not a mediocre hitter. Warren Spahn would NOT have classified him as a 'mediocre' hitter.
@@jamesanthony5681 - The stats are the stats. Mays had these career batting stats before he went into the service: (.266 BA, .348 OBP, .459 SLG, .807 OPS)... and these were his stats in 1954 after he had spent his time in the military: (.345 BA, .411 OBP, .667 SLG, 1.078 OPS). The difference between his numbers BEFORE going into the service... and then what he did AFTER coming out of the service - is HUGE. He was the league BA and Slg% leader upon his return. He had been mediocre in both BA (.266) and SLG (.459) before he went into the service.
It just might be... that going into the service played a big role in turning that young man into a much stronger, better version of what he had been - before going into the service. You can choose to believe his time in the service did nothing to make him a better player if you want... but the facts are the facts. He was a HOF player upon his return to MLB... while he was clearly not hitting at a HOF level before going into the service.
@@aBeatleFan4ever Point taken. My point was the the service neither helped nor hindered Willie in his development, although yes, he very well could have gotten stronger, more mature, etc., from his time away.
Although Willie did not have HOF stats, pre-military, there was a period of adjustment in 1951 where he was figuring out big league pitching, much like Mickey Mantle in his rookie year, or any rookie for that matter. Mike Schmidt is an example where he hit .196 in his rookie year, 1973. For Willie, after coming from the Minneapolis Millers where he was hitting .477, the adjustment was larger than he thought. But once he figured it out, the point at which he left for the army, he was not a mediocre hitter. Had he played a full 1952, I believe he would have had a monster year, despite those low numbers for 34 games.
It is remarkable that after almost 2 years away from the big leagues, he stepped right in and had an MVP season in 1954. Leo Durocher's influence was HUGE for Willie, and can't be overstated.
Mays was the best athlete of his generation, but the best player was Yogi Berra by far. Berra won the World Series 10
times to Mays 1, and Berra was the catcher, probably the most important position on the team. If Mays was playing on
the Yankees teams of the 50's and 60's he'd be without question the greatest, but unfortunately he was sent to that
nightmarish stadium Candlestick Park in San Francisco
@@jamesanthony5681 military service made him stronger physically and matured his mental attitude. Yogi, Ted, Spahn, etc etc all came out of the service better.
Whitey Ford !!!
Right next door is the Jewish Museum of Gangsters...though it's not as well lit.
Willie Mays was the greatest Baseball Player Ever. Aaron was Great But Willie was The Greatest. Sorry Bud Selig.
Worst Commissioner in baseball ever.
much LOVE Kimmyssong AustinJamesPotter
Koufax was the best I ever saw and I saw Drysdale, Gibson, Jenkins, Seaver and Ryan.
Stan Musial owned him though.
Then you never seen Whitey Ford For year’s Koufax couldn’t hit a bull in the ass with a beach ball, Ford started on top and left on top.
Marichal was a great pitcher for longer than 7 years.
It's unfortunate for Koufax that the Tommy Jon surgery came after him. I believe that if Koufax had gotten that surgery, he would've been considered the goat.
that surgery doesn't help against arthritis.
And yet I read that Aaron hit .372 against Koufax over his career.
.362 but thats still saying something. Even with that success he almost felt lucky.
That's a misleading statistic, though, because Sandy Koufax only started becoming a great pitcher in 1961. From 1955 to 1960, Aaron hit .475 (19 for 40) off of Koufax; from 1961 to 1966, he hit .295 (23 for 78); and if you narrow it down to Koufax's last four years, when he was truly dominant, it goes down to .214 (9 for 42).
Okay and I'm sure if you looked you can find a game where Hank hit 1.000 off him.. narrowing it down even further. The stat isn't misleading.
It's misleading because Aaron hit Koufax better when Koufax wasn't very good, which is not a very impressive thing to do. '55-'60 Koufax had an ERA of 4.10.
Look Koufax is obviously one of the greatest. I'm a Dodger fan and one of the few Jewish athletes to look up to. But Hank Aaron had a much better career. And if in the whole span he averaged .372 against one of the best of all time, just shows to Hanks greatness.
Koufax is HUGELY overrated. He had 5 good seasons. That's it. Let us not forget that he was a huge offender of sliming the baseball with Vaseline and hair grease before EVERY pitch. Warren Spahn was much better. Hank Aaron for the win.
How could you compare Henry Aaron the Sandy Koufax Henry Aaron had 20 great major-league Seasons where he contributed a lot 20 Seasons Sandy Koufax only had three grade Seasons out of 12 The Nine Season Sandy Koufax was an average or below-average picture Anna 1966 World Series he could not even win one baseball game so I just got blown out you can't compare the great career of Henry Aaron to the brief shining of Colfax
Sandy Koufax was an average pitcher his first six seasons. His last six seasons he had an ERA of 2.19 and an ERA+ of 154, and an average of 22 wins and 286 strikeouts per season. He played in 4 World Series in his career, during which he compiled a 0.98 ERA in 57 innings pitched.
As for 1966, the Dodgers lost in 4 games and Koufax started one of those games, allowing a single earned run in 6 innings pitched. Blaming Sandy for that game (or that series) would be like blaming Henry Aaron for the Braves' loss to the Yankees in 1958, when he batted so you can't exactly blame him for the loss, when he batted .333 over seven games, but had no home runs, and only 2 RBI's.
@@calguy3838 Koufax played in 6 world series 1956 1959 1963 1965 and 1966. He only had 2 superlative world series 1963 and 1965. The other 3 world series 1956 1959 and 1966 he stunk and was worthless to his team. He only had 3 great seasons and 2 great ws as compared to 9 lousy seasons and 3 below par WS that didn't help his team. At 165 wins he doesn't deserve hall of fame credentials
@@danielshanetzky3714 Koufax did not play in the 1955 World Series (which, I'm guessing, is the sixth World Series you meant, since you only listed five). He also did not play in the 1956 World Series. In 1959, he appeared in two games, pitched 9 innings, allowed a single earned run, struck out seven and walked one; every manager in baseball would love to have a staff of pitchers who "stink" like that. I've already given you his stats for the 1966 Series; it was the worst of the World Series he played, though the sample size is small, and he hardly stunk. The Dodgers lost that year because the two runs they scored in Game 1 were the only runs they scored in the entire series.
And it's laughable to say that Sandy Koufax was "lousy" apart from his three great seasons. I gave you his cumulative stats for his last SIX seasons, but I neglected to mention that in every one of those last six seasons he was an All Star, and also got MVP votes at the end of each season. He also led the league in Fielding Independent Pitching each of those seasons. In his "lousy" season of 1964 he went 19-5 with a 1.74 ERA and finished 3rd in Cy Young voting despite injuries limiting him to 29 starts (which is more or less a full season's worth of starts in today's game).
Finally, in his first six seasons he was not a great pitcher, and certainly did not pitch like a future Hall of Famer. But his cumulative ERA+ for those seasons was 100 which was exactly average, and is only "lousy" in comparison to how he pitched the rest of his career.
@@calguy3838 you were correct I did make a few miscues But you have to admit the first half of Koufax pitching career he was ineffective a nonentity a waste from 1955 to 1960 a big zero. In 1956 if Koufax would have shown something maybe he could have helped the brooklyn dodgers win the 1956 world series like his fellow youngster teammate Johnny Padres did in 1955. Podres..
Was in the military in 1956. If Koufax could have pulled his jockstrap weight in 1956 and played in the 1956 world series and brooklyn would have won the title maybe that disgusting ape walter O'Malley my apologies to apes wouldn't have stole the team to Los Angeles
@@calguy3838 alot of MLB were able to string together 3 great seasons like Koufax but didn't deserve the honor of being in the Bsseball hall of fame like Ron Guidry Denny McClain Thurman Munson micky rivers etc. It's not fair double standards
Jewish baseball?? sounds stupid to me. I watched Jim Palmer whoop Koufax and the Dodgers 6-0 in the second game of the World Series in 1966 in Dodger Stadium. I do not know what religion Palmer is, but why should that matter??? Jewish baseball........
Judaism is not just a religion though. The African-American equivalent would be something like the NLBM in Kansas City.
Don Davis Jewish doesn’t matter. Neither does your one game comparison! How many earned runs? How many errors did Willie Davis commit? Yes, even with these factors, Palmer outpitched Sandy this one game! Ask Palmer about Koufax?
@@jossposs6111 - Exactly. The Dodgers made 6 errors in that game, and there was another triple that most agree should also have been charged an error, on a miscommunication between outfielders. It was 4-0 in the 7th when Koufax left the game. Even Palmer admitted when congratulated on the game for beating Koufax, "I didn't beat Koufax, Willie Davis beat Koufax!"
People have been putting together all ethnic teams many years- its nothing new.
And a lot of people who shoot off their mouths on these forums tend to overlook the fact that most of the games Koufax won had low scores.
The Dodgers back weren’t known for the long ball.
Koufax was the man. When he hit his stride, he was unbeatable. There was a time when every game he was flirting with a no hitter, it seemed.