That was pretty comprehensive; we are using a twin mac dome pressure setup with a dominator. As we are using map as a pressure source, boost is climbing not as quick as desired. Now i understand why we have to use a co2 pressure source.... thanks alot....
Why they don't make a simple external wastegate with an electric actuator taking its reference in the intake manifold ? It would be simple to connect and completly tunable at will. exactly like an idle air control.
Sounds like what would be sick for road courses would be an auto learning co2 system. Program a Max dome pressure that's safe for the engine, then have it build a 3d plot (mph/lateral g's/dome psi) using learned wheel slip of what amount of boost is too much for the tires to handle. Now if only I had more programming knowledge than "hello world"... Love this video, it's making the gears turn in my head
The world of ls guys owe you a BIG thanks . This is new old school of hot rodding on the cheap.So many "tuners" won't give up any info when it is just a basic learning curve we all have to go thru . Thanks for making it simple to understand .
Also, adding boost on the top is better than bleeding at the bottom, it can help keeping the gate shut longer and not creeping open before it hits set psi. And using a computer controlled MAC you can add boost at higher rpm´s when it has passed the max torque, then it wont bend the rod as easily(can be done with timing also)=more horsepower on top with no more strain on the internals
You should be an Automotive Performance teacher, I enjoyed the class but I have to watch this at least 2 more times. So much to take in at once for a Rookie.
Thx bro. Video was awsome, I really like how u made sense of the dome setup with co2. Huge help. Make life so much easier trying to learn this stuff. More. More. More. 👍👍👍👊
Thanks for the boost control ideas! Learn something new everyday. I have heard about dome control before but didn't know how it worked. This will come in handy for a arduino project after the trans controller is figured out.
I have to keep coming back to this because I overthink these setups. I'm personally using a 3 port on my piggyback but building the PCB circuit to do dual MAC valve and always coming back to a dumb down, easy to understand explanation. Thanks again!
Great video. Can't thank you enough. I have a decent grasp on the manual boost controlling methods, but was looking for more info on the CO2 electronic version, and you did a great job of clearing it up for me. Obviously there is tons more on the subject, but you did a great job of making the application easy to relate to. And the illustrations help to prevent confusion.
I recently got boost leash by gear (LS and tr6060 ~900whp), this helped me to understand it more thoroughly. I’ve been hesitant to play with the ramp rates. Thank you.
i run a Boost leash controller with C02 its amazing! rock solid boost control. Matt you forgot to mention with co2 you can set a boost launch psi while on 2 step or T.B. Co2 will push the gate closed so you can build boost faster while staging.
Ive been using 4mm washer fluid T fittings for years. Its awsome! Lets me vary from 5-8-11-14 psi depending on how many I put in. Only issue is I loose about 2 psi for each T fitting I put in. 10psi actuator with adjustable rod is better and more stabile but its just easier and faster to ad T fittings. Btw T fittings gives a more progressive boost curve rather than a more boring, linear curve from adjustable actuator 🙂
Great video matt. Although a few minutes in I feel your Over 50% of peoples heads by how fast and excited you talk. Not hating I understand how hard it is to explain stuff! If people truly want to learn they will understand this fully. Once again great video
great explanation. id like to see you push the limits of a production 5.3 block and crank, set of forged pistons and stronger rods and a pair of 80mm+ turbos
Awesome job Matt. Dome control is basically variable pressure rate which you control pressure by timed ramp rate or some other trigger. Honestly for tuning a street car this is the way to go when dialing in your combo on a dyno.
I gotta say spectacular man. You seem to do your best work when you are just winging it, you have a natural ability to stream consciousness in a natural fashion that makes it easy to comprehend. Either that or I am as insane as you are. In either case, please keep it up, this old Mechanical Engineer appreciates you!
Running split line to top/bottom port from turbo should give you the same boost as running no reference line. 3 top/3 bot = atmosphere top/atmosphere bot
consider, its working normally with bottom reference, then you add 3lb of pressure to the top it has to combat with, why would it negate it, its adding pressure. instead of just venting nothing in the hat, if you put boost in the intake of a car, at 50lbs of fuel pressure, and run 10lbs of boost, you're killing off 10lbs of fuel pressure, because the injector has to spray into 10lbs, thus making the injector less effective, same thing is going on here. adding pressure to the top, gives the backpressure in the exhaust something more to work against, not less. pretty simple.
Why does it cancel out at twice the PSI though? If you've now raised it to 6 PSI when it was 3 then that's 6 PSI you can put on top of the Dome correct? Should it not increase exponentially then?
Just wondering, if the co2 just applies pressure to the top of the waste gate to control boost, why not just put an built in electronic actuator at the top of the wastegate to simplify the setup and have infinite adjustability and feedback? Is it heat, size of unit, amount of pressure to hold the valve closed, or a combination of all of these?
Great video Matt, had no clue how many options there are. So are you kicking off the tuning series here? I can't wait on that, it's so hard to find reliable info on ECU tuning.
Nice job. i have a small turbo on my race bike, and was going to use a solenoid and regulator for second stage boost, since it builds boost so fast. but good explination on dome control. reading lots about settings on the ms3x, and it looks to be straight forward.
This is my second time watching this video, im finally at the point in my build where Im making a decision of boost controllers and widebands. Looking into combos and want legit answers and not hit it with your purse or memes as an answer. If anyone has some good ideas im all ears.
possibly, if there is a lot of the half venting going on or slightly open on the gate, also springing more, or using boost on top recirculate can also help out if it is cracking early and bleeding
I know of one driver with a big turbo 2jz ~ 800-1000whp using it with anti-lag, but I didn't know enough about it until now to know who does and doesn't run it, but it makes sense.
Great vid moot hoopppel (denmarshe) explained extremely well, although i have 2 questions Why use c02 instead of oxygen? (Assuming fore hazard) Can a stock ls truck or car ecu support closed loop boost control using hp tuners? I know with the aussie turbo barra ecu it comes stock with a turbo you can tune with closed loop boost control with hp tuners
I have a question Moat Hoopelz: Theoretically speaking, if I run a waste gate with no boost reference line, and i suffer from crazy boost creep (waste gate is unable to bleed exhaust), will using a stiffer spring and running a little more boost suppress that problem? Since there is less exhaust to gate, shouldn't it be easier for the WG to control?
Great video! sharing with my less informed friends. I posted this on instagram too, but i guess ill post it here. Know of anyone using a Paintball HPA tank? Theyre light, and have up to 3000 PSI. regulated to 30-50 or even 150 psi, it should last forever.
I'm not really understanding why sending the same PSI to the top and bottom doubles the boost instead of having the same effect as not having reference lines at all. Is it because of the effective area the pressures are acting on in the system, and thus the ratio is related to the proportions of the particular wastegate, or is there something else going on that I'm not thinking about?
I have been looking for an answer to this question for quite some time. I mean, the more the Boost increases the more you're able to put on top of the Dome so why does it cancel out at twice the PSI?
From my understanding people are now using traction control to pull timing instead of changing boost pressures during a run. Reason behind this is timing is an instant change where there is always lag when changing boost
yes but traction control slows a car down no matter what, also they are still using a boost ramp in combination. you cant leave with 75lbs of boost in a 4500hp car and just adjust timing to manage power
My original MBC/grainger valve ran 25psi to the bottom port of external WG from compressor cover and was rock solid. Now Im running a Innovate SCG-1. My wastegate has 8psi spring. With the SCG1 at 100% I get 16psi running top and bottom port. I need more boost, so was informed that I can run the WG solenoid on just the lower line like my MBC was and by setting the SCG1 could raise and lower boost. I either get 8psi or it runs away to 30+. Ive set the boost controller to 30 psi and 2 psi makes no difference.. Whats got me confused is my grainger valve blocked all boost reference to the WG until 25psi, and the WG stays closed, if I leave everything unhooked its 8psi.. All Im trying to accomplish is use the electronic solenoid as an adjustable grainger valve to get 25 psi.. Ideas..?
That was pretty comprehensive; we are using a twin mac dome pressure setup with a dominator. As we are using map as a pressure source, boost is climbing not as quick as desired. Now i understand why we have to use a co2 pressure source.... thanks alot....
Why they don't make a simple external wastegate with an electric actuator taking its reference in the intake manifold ?
It would be simple to connect and completly tunable at will.
exactly like an idle air control.
Sounds like what would be sick for road courses would be an auto learning co2 system. Program a Max dome pressure that's safe for the engine, then have it build a 3d plot (mph/lateral g's/dome psi) using learned wheel slip of what amount of boost is too much for the tires to handle.
Now if only I had more programming knowledge than "hello world"...
Love this video, it's making the gears turn in my head
All makes sense now !
The old ball and chain. Oh spring. Seems good.
The world of ls guys owe you a BIG thanks . This is new old school of hot rodding on the cheap.So many "tuners" won't give up any info when it is just a basic learning curve we all have to go thru . Thanks for making it simple to understand .
Thank you Professor Denmah, you never know what you don’t know till you know it
Filthy McNasty Sloppy University
Also, adding boost on the top is better than bleeding at the bottom, it can help keeping the gate shut longer and not creeping open before it hits set psi. And using a computer controlled MAC you can add boost at higher rpm´s when it has passed the max torque, then it wont bend the rod as easily(can be done with timing also)=more horsepower on top with no more strain on the internals
You should be an Automotive Performance teacher, I enjoyed the class but I have to watch this at least 2 more times. So much to take in at once for a Rookie.
+Steve Davis haha I hear this all the time
Damn, just blew my mind with the co2 controller details. It’s fuckin awesome! I did not know how versatile it makes you’re set up
i got my WRX in Allentown and drove it back to boston that night
Been looking for some easy to understand info in this for planning my LS build for when I get the money, and then I see the Denmah has spoken.
Thank you Mr. Denmeh
Cannot thank you enuff...bloody amazing vid. Stumbles blindly thru turbo build until bad man on the tube flix on light switch.
12 time i watch it becaus i learn something new each time.....
Matt, you rule!
Fuckin love the thumbnail, awesome video Matt
THERE IS NO CAROL IN HR!!!!
Same
I got my question answered in a vid in less than 24hrs. Not bad! Thanks Matt.
Learned something today! Thanks!
very educational, thanks
Awesome video Matt!! I get it all now. Didn't really understand wastegates till this video, now I do! Thanks!
Excellent video!
Good job keep them come. Thanks for all the great free info. Looking forward to your megasquirt tutorial videos.
Thx bro. Video was awsome, I really like how u made sense of the dome setup with co2. Huge help. Make life so much easier trying to learn this stuff. More. More. More. 👍👍👍👊
You did a great job explaining it. I new to the world of turbos trying to figure it all out. This will help a lot. Thanks
Thanks for the boost control ideas! Learn something new everyday. I have heard about dome control before but didn't know how it worked. This will come in handy for a arduino project after the trans controller is figured out.
I have to keep coming back to this because I overthink these setups. I'm personally using a 3 port on my piggyback but building the PCB circuit to do dual MAC valve and always coming back to a dumb down, easy to understand explanation. Thanks again!
Great video. Can't thank you enough. I have a decent grasp on the manual boost controlling methods, but was looking for more info on the CO2 electronic version, and you did a great job of clearing it up for me. Obviously there is tons more on the subject, but you did a great job of making the application easy to relate to. And the illustrations help to prevent confusion.
Amazing job explaining this Matt! The technology available today for turbo cars is staggering. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
I absolutely LOVE that you did this. Saves me so much time by referencing this to my customers
Thank you Matt! Great video! I wouldn't have a crazy turbo cadillac if it wasn't for sloppy mechanics! I appreciate all your hard work!
The best damn guide to boost control rambletron on the internet.
I know for the most part how this all works and I think u did a damn good job explaining it without blowing minds. Lol 👍
I recently got boost leash by gear (LS and tr6060 ~900whp), this helped me to understand it more thoroughly. I’ve been hesitant to play with the ramp rates. Thank you.
It's like a cooking class on making car drugs.
+shua w lmao
Holy information Bat Man! Now my brain hurts! Great presentation, I learned a lot...thanks for posting!
Amazing. Such a great help to the community. Thank you Matt!
Thank you , very informative . Did an awesome job explaining it all in a half hour video .
Lol @ thumbnail
i run a Boost leash controller with C02 its amazing! rock solid boost control. Matt you forgot to mention with co2 you can set a boost launch psi while on 2 step or T.B. Co2 will push the gate closed so you can build boost faster while staging.
Learnt a lot about co2 dome control awesome explanation!, cheers Matt
Excellent presentation Matt.
Awesome video. I have been wondering about how CO2 works since they mentioned it on Street Outlaws. Thanks for explaining!
Matt, just wanna say thanks for taking the time to put this together. Keep it up!
+Kevin Armijo you’re welcome
Good Job!
Well shit, you're eventually gonna give out all your secrets to make these LS motors chooch.
Thx for doing these videos I've learnt so much from them , well done
Ive been using 4mm washer fluid T fittings for years. Its awsome! Lets me vary from 5-8-11-14 psi depending on how many I put in. Only issue is I loose about 2 psi for each T fitting I put in. 10psi actuator with adjustable rod is better and more stabile but its just easier and faster to ad T fittings. Btw T fittings gives a more progressive boost curve rather than a more boring, linear curve from adjustable actuator 🙂
BADD ASS EXPLANATION!
Thanks Matt; would like to see applied examples on your builds.
I came in knowing about half this stuff. Thought I knew most. Nice video as always.
Great answers!!! I was so confused before this!! Thank you so much!
Great video matt. Although a few minutes in I feel your Over 50% of peoples heads by how fast and excited you talk. Not hating I understand how hard it is to explain stuff! If people truly want to learn they will understand this fully. Once again great video
Great info brother
great explanation. id like to see you push the limits of a production 5.3 block and crank, set of forged pistons and stronger rods and a pair of 80mm+ turbos
Awesome job Matt. Dome control is basically variable pressure rate which you control pressure by timed ramp rate or some other trigger. Honestly for tuning a street car this is the way to go when dialing in your combo on a dyno.
I gotta say spectacular man. You seem to do your best work when you are just winging it, you have a natural ability to stream consciousness in a natural fashion that makes it easy to comprehend.
Either that or I am as insane as you are.
In either case, please keep it up, this old Mechanical Engineer appreciates you!
Running split line to top/bottom port from turbo should give you the same boost as running no reference line. 3 top/3 bot = atmosphere top/atmosphere bot
consider, its working normally with bottom reference, then you add 3lb of pressure to the top it has to combat with, why would it negate it, its adding pressure. instead of just venting nothing in the hat, if you put boost in the intake of a car, at 50lbs of fuel pressure, and run 10lbs of boost, you're killing off 10lbs of fuel pressure, because the injector has to spray into 10lbs, thus making the injector less effective, same thing is going on here. adding pressure to the top, gives the backpressure in the exhaust something more to work against, not less. pretty simple.
Why does it cancel out at twice the PSI though? If you've now raised it to 6 PSI when it was 3 then that's 6 PSI you can put on top of the Dome correct? Should it not increase exponentially then?
this video just helped me out a bunch , thank you
thanks matt
Thanks Matt just the kind of boost control information I needed.
Amazingly helpful video Matt, thank you!!
Great video! Long time mechanic, new to Turbos..don't even have one.....yet!
you've come to the right place!
Great vid Matt, very good explanation.
Just wondering, if the co2 just applies pressure to the top of the waste gate to control boost, why not just put an built in electronic actuator at the top of the wastegate to simplify the setup and have infinite adjustability and feedback? Is it heat, size of unit, amount of pressure to hold the valve closed, or a combination of all of these?
Matt,
Does it matter where you place the boost reference connection on the compressor? Close to the outlet? predetermined aluminum castinging?
Great video Matt, had no clue how many options there are. So are you kicking off the tuning series here? I can't wait on that, it's so hard to find reliable info on ECU tuning.
Nice job. i have a small turbo on my race bike, and was going to use a solenoid and regulator for second stage boost, since it builds boost so fast. but good explination on dome control. reading lots about settings on the ms3x, and it looks to be straight forward.
This is my second time watching this video, im finally at the point in my build where Im making a decision of boost controllers and widebands. Looking into combos and want legit answers and not hit it with your purse or memes as an answer. If anyone has some good ideas im all ears.
Can't believe you didn't tell people to not use the fire ring as a mating flange.
DEBOSS GARAGE seriously? Do you have a reference that gives more info?
Somebody buy this man a drink!
very informative!! thank you
Absolute gold Matt. Thanks for this. I have a lot better understanding of how all this shit works now :)
Great job! That was really informative and straight forward. Thanks teach!
I'm sure the C02 setup would work great for laggy setups in drifting to get the power back on without having to wait for everything to catch up.
possibly, if there is a lot of the half venting going on or slightly open on the gate, also springing more, or using boost on top recirculate can also help out if it is cracking early and bleeding
I know of one driver with a big turbo 2jz ~ 800-1000whp using it with anti-lag, but I didn't know enough about it until now to know who does and doesn't run it, but it makes sense.
truboost is independent of the ecu correct? so you wouldn't be able to do a ramp like boost vs. time with the truboost? thanks for the vid
correct, it is a stand alone
Extremely helpful! Thanks again
Great vid moot hoopppel (denmarshe) explained extremely well, although i have 2 questions
Why use c02 instead of oxygen? (Assuming fore hazard)
Can a stock ls truck or car ecu support closed loop boost control using hp tuners? I know with the aussie turbo barra ecu it comes stock with a turbo you can tune with closed loop boost control with hp tuners
Thank you so much Matt !!!!
I have a question Moat Hoopelz: Theoretically speaking, if I run a waste gate with no boost reference line, and i suffer from crazy boost creep (waste gate is unable to bleed exhaust), will using a stiffer spring and running a little more boost suppress that problem? Since there is less exhaust to gate, shouldn't it be easier for the WG to control?
i would say it makes creep worse as it has a higher starting point
@@SloppyMechanics 6 years lol
Great video! sharing with my less informed friends. I posted this on instagram too, but i guess ill post it here. Know of anyone using a Paintball HPA tank? Theyre light, and have up to 3000 PSI. regulated to 30-50 or even 150 psi, it should last forever.
GREAT CLASS... I GOT AN A
Would love to see this with a term x set up and how it’s set up, if it needs a output set and such. Thanks for the info none the less.
I’ve done two videos on terminator boost control heads up
I'm not really understanding why sending the same PSI to the top and bottom doubles the boost instead of having the same effect as not having reference lines at all.
Is it because of the effective area the pressures are acting on in the system, and thus the ratio is related to the proportions of the particular wastegate, or is there something else going on that I'm not thinking about?
I have been looking for an answer to this question for quite some time. I mean, the more the Boost increases the more you're able to put on top of the Dome so why does it cancel out at twice the PSI?
Great info Matt! I like these vids.
tuning class is in session!
thank you!
Dome control is how the street outlaw guys are taking power out of the cars when you hear them say that on the show.BIG TIRE MORE POWER.
Thanks a lot Matt!!
What’s a good Sloppy approach to the adjustment timer, budget will not allow the expensive controllers?
It was really great. I appreciate the info
I feel the same way I did when I took trig for that one day.
lol
I shouldn't have watched this. I thought I understood boost control lol. I love your videos though.
From my understanding people are now using traction control to pull timing instead of changing boost pressures during a run. Reason behind this is timing is an instant change where there is always lag when changing boost
For sure, or even drop cylinders. th-cam.com/video/iP8sfonI9cM/w-d-xo.html
yes but traction control slows a car down no matter what, also they are still using a boost ramp in combination.
you cant leave with 75lbs of boost in a 4500hp car and just adjust timing to manage power
So for ECU's that advertise boost control (like the MS3 Gold box) Is an electronic boost control solenoid needed?
Thank you sir!
are most china wastegate mounting flanges the same/ interchangeable if they are the same size, 44mm in different brands?
Allentown, Pepe Silvia.
Awesome
Sloppy for President!
My original MBC/grainger valve ran 25psi to the bottom port of external WG from compressor cover and was rock solid. Now Im running a Innovate SCG-1. My wastegate has 8psi spring. With the SCG1 at 100% I get 16psi running top and bottom port. I need more boost, so was informed that I can run the WG solenoid on just the lower line like my MBC was and by setting the SCG1 could raise and lower boost. I either get 8psi or it runs away to 30+. Ive set the boost controller to 30 psi and 2 psi makes no difference.. Whats got me confused is my grainger valve blocked all boost reference to the WG until 25psi, and the WG stays closed, if I leave everything unhooked its 8psi.. All Im trying to accomplish is use the electronic solenoid as an adjustable grainger valve to get 25 psi.. Ideas..?