Yes that waltzy 3 turn exercise at the end is a great way to feel that edge. Did it yesterday and felt power without lots of winged axel fail jumps. Felt like the practice was good. Same for my loop jump. Once I felt that outside quick edge, the jump was so much easier. I feel that on all my jumps but the axel (which I'm now getting the feel of that forward left outside edge...which you need power going into)
Great point about the lack of rotational momentum when practicing on a floor. However... it seems this problem could be solved if you are practicing with an appropriate dance-type floor and slippers (NO sneakers, NO rubber floor). This is almost like our ballet tourjete, which takes off straight. Instead of straight, you would push yourself into a little bit of a spin when stepping forward onto your L foot, then do the tourjete-type jump starting with that extra bit of angular momentum. When you land the jump, you would then expect to continue spinning a bit around your R foot, I would say at least 1/4 turn before the floor friction stops you. I think that would be the best on-floor analog of an Axel jump, at least for a trained ballet dancer. Your thoughts?
Thanks very much, Elizabeth, for this tour jeté analogy. I had to look it up, and even watched a video on this beautiful ballet move. I am not clear on how the ballet shoes improve the situation, frankly. What you can do on skates is grip sideways and glide forward and backward, and it is this ability to sustain a leaning, gliding edge that is the crux of the automatic rotation that you get from jumping off this edge. This is not possible on the floor. There is no need to initiate any kind of rotation on the ice. Further, since the legs pass very close to each other in the tour jeté, this is not ideal for Axel jump in my opinion.
@GaryBeacom-FigureSkater Thank you for your thoughtful reply (this is same Elizabeth, different account). Riding an edge on ice can be analyzed from the skater's non-inertial reference frame with a tilted gravity vector that you align with by leaning. From that reference frame, you just stand still while the world revolves around you. The analog to on the floor to riding an edge would be to stand vertical while turning slowly on one foot to simulate the angular momentum you have naturally when travling around a circle. When you decide to jump, you should have the same amount of initial angular momentum in this floor analog as you would if you were traveling around a circle on ice. So... for a CCW axel, you would start on your R foot turning slownly en dehors (analogous to a backspin but with all your body parts in Axel takeoff position of course), then step out on your L foot and jump. Ballet slippers help because they allow you to create and control angular momentum as needed (and less clunky than spinners). I agree, other mechanics of tourjete jump vs. axel are different. So if you're trying to simulate an axel, you would do those things Axel-style. Sprung ballet floors help because you should never do large jumps on a concrete floor. I suppose that wearing sneakers helps, but they are hard to balance in and they don't turn on the floor, which can lead to twisting an ankle or knee. Hence the hop-hop-hop we see, which is completely different from skating. Sneakers are OK for basic fitness I suppose, but I would never recommend trying any dance or skating movement in them. So it's ballet slippers and appropriate floor for me. This has been an interesting thought experiment, but the level of control needed to pull it off requires a lot of ballet skill, which may not be available most figure skaters. It's probably more practical to just learn the Axel on ice as you describe. And you point out many Axel-related things that CAN be practiced on the floor (eg stepping forward without hesitating).
I will do this practice. As an adult, I am scared to do axel. Of ice, my rotation is not very centered when I jump counterclockwise ("right") it is better clockwise. My spins were better clockwise until I started getting more practice counterclockwise. I have been practicing for 3 years now. What do you suggest. Just a reminder that I am 45 😏
I have done many Axel videos, Lilian. This is just one of many. Watch them all, and practice all the exercises. It is quite important for Axel success to be able to do a backspin on a back outside edge--right from the start of the spin. I will also do a video in the near future on some off-ice exercises to build strength for jumping and rotation. It is difficult for me to recommend more without actually seeing you skate.
This has been really helpful..thank you!
Also very helpful explanation of the glide and lean for the power rather than the upper body off ice approach.
Excelente ejecución felicidades. ❤
Very useful. Thank you.
Yes that waltzy 3 turn exercise at the end is a great way to feel that edge. Did it yesterday and felt power without lots of winged axel fail jumps. Felt like the practice was good.
Same for my loop jump. Once I felt that outside quick edge, the jump was so much easier. I feel that on all my jumps but the axel (which I'm now getting the feel of that forward left outside edge...which you need power going into)
Great point about the lack of rotational momentum when practicing on a floor. However... it seems this problem could be solved if you are practicing with an appropriate dance-type floor and slippers (NO sneakers, NO rubber floor). This is almost like our ballet tourjete, which takes off straight. Instead of straight, you would push yourself into a little bit of a spin when stepping forward onto your L foot, then do the tourjete-type jump starting with that extra bit of angular momentum. When you land the jump, you would then expect to continue spinning a bit around your R foot, I would say at least 1/4 turn before the floor friction stops you. I think that would be the best on-floor analog of an Axel jump, at least for a trained ballet dancer. Your thoughts?
Thanks very much, Elizabeth, for this tour jeté analogy. I had to look it up, and even watched a video on this beautiful ballet move. I am not clear on how the ballet shoes improve the situation, frankly. What you can do on skates is grip sideways and glide forward and backward, and it is this ability to sustain a leaning, gliding edge that is the crux of the automatic rotation that you get from jumping off this edge. This is not possible on the floor. There is no need to initiate any kind of rotation on the ice. Further, since the legs pass very close to each other in the tour jeté, this is not ideal for Axel jump in my opinion.
@GaryBeacom-FigureSkater Thank you for your thoughtful reply (this is same Elizabeth, different account). Riding an edge on ice can be analyzed from the skater's non-inertial reference frame with a tilted gravity vector that you align with by leaning. From that reference frame, you just stand still while the world revolves around you. The analog to on the floor to riding an edge would be to stand vertical while turning slowly on one foot to simulate the angular momentum you have naturally when travling around a circle. When you decide to jump, you should have the same amount of initial angular momentum in this floor analog as you would if you were traveling around a circle on ice.
So... for a CCW axel, you would start on your R foot turning slownly en dehors (analogous to a backspin but with all your body parts in Axel takeoff position of course), then step out on your L foot and jump. Ballet slippers help because they allow you to create and control angular momentum as needed (and less clunky than spinners). I agree, other mechanics of tourjete jump vs. axel are different. So if you're trying to simulate an axel, you would do those things Axel-style.
Sprung ballet floors help because you should never do large jumps on a concrete floor. I suppose that wearing sneakers helps, but they are hard to balance in and they don't turn on the floor, which can lead to twisting an ankle or knee. Hence the hop-hop-hop we see, which is completely different from skating. Sneakers are OK for basic fitness I suppose, but I would never recommend trying any dance or skating movement in them. So it's ballet slippers and appropriate floor for me.
This has been an interesting thought experiment, but the level of control needed to pull it off requires a lot of ballet skill, which may not be available most figure skaters. It's probably more practical to just learn the Axel on ice as you describe. And you point out many Axel-related things that CAN be practiced on the floor (eg stepping forward without hesitating).
Well I kinda already explained what's wrong with it lol lives rent free in my head
I will do this practice. As an adult, I am scared to do axel. Of ice, my rotation is not very centered when I jump counterclockwise ("right") it is better clockwise. My spins were better clockwise until I started getting more practice counterclockwise. I have been practicing for 3 years now. What do you suggest. Just a reminder that I am 45 😏
Ha ha I'm 55 and trying to jump Axel .😁
@kaxtutanjp that is great! I feel we are all on the same boat. We can do it, encourage and support each other. Good luck to us. 👍🏼
I have done many Axel videos, Lilian. This is just one of many. Watch them all, and practice all the exercises. It is quite important for Axel success to be able to do a backspin on a back outside edge--right from the start of the spin. I will also do a video in the near future on some off-ice exercises to build strength for jumping and rotation. It is difficult for me to recommend more without actually seeing you skate.