Agreed, its enforcing laws that are officiallt in the books already. Essentially doing the job of traffic cops, except cheaper for taxpayers and overall system. One thing you can't do is extrapolate to large payoffs for lots of people long term. As soon as this goes into effect, people will obey the laws and there'd be less law breakers, and also less bounty to be collected. It's such a brilliant and simple idea, best combined for cyclists since everyone has a camera on phone, and cylists can easily stop to do this. If only more laws could be enforced in this way...
Communities have to enforce discipline on cheaters in the community in order for the community to function. We see it all the time in nature, for example bats and sharing food.
@@brandonsteele2826 Cities could implement delivery parking spots. Then have anyone else parking on them have to pay for time/sales losses of actual delivery drivers.
I've visited NYC this year for the first time ever and stayed/lived there for the summer.... It is an incredible city and now that I know how it feels to be there........Caseys Vlogs have just become even more special than they already were. On my last day there I was going to visit the outside of Caseys office but I'm gutted as I ran out of time as I had to catch my flight home back to the UK.
No, there are other ways... 1) Smashing off mirrors. 2) Smashing windows. 3) Flattening tires. The list is endless. Problem is, twisted 'Murican logic will prosecute this "property crime" as a potential felony. But endangering human beings? Nah, that's nothing. No crime. Nothing to see here. The cyclist probably wasn't wearing a helmet anyway.
@@carsonwilliams they will/are. change for curb level protected bike lanes is beginning to be the standard in the US. also dutch roundabouts are being designed and put in design manuals with raised crossings and other stuff. the netherlands literally didn't even have a lot of painted bike lanes in the 80's. the world evolves and designs get copied, which is really gonna US transportation in the coming decade.
Let's be honest here. It's not tickets that keeps the bike lanes in the NL clear of bikes. Only an idiot would park in a bike lane. The kind of semi-accidental scratches you would get on your car...
Until you live in nyc, it’s hard to describe how infuriating it is when people park in the bike lane. I’d wish they’d go farther and let you report people that double park as well.
Im in a tiny city and it still gets to me. Painted gutter is blocked meaning I have to dart into traffic while cars are driving 50 mph and hope I can get around in time. At least in major cities cars cant get up to that kind of speed
After hearing about the 13 year old boy who died getting hit by a car because a semi-truck was parked in the bike lane, i have no problem reporting folks. Maybe give them a chance, but its a LOT more dangerous than people think. Thanks for doing this work, Casey.
@@charger875 it’s just understandable why most people would double park in these areas. There needs to be a better and real solution though because there is risk and danger in this approach as well.
I live in a much smaller city and just started biking to work. It's amazing how much stuff is in the bike lane that shouldn't be there. Also I've only been doing it for two weeks and I've already been intentionally "buzzed" (where the driver intentionally tries to come towards the bike lane and scare the shit out of you), flipped off, and honked at (all different events and unprovoked). I thought riding my bike would be a way to get some exercise and just be outside for a bit every day during a time I'd normally be driving. Instead it's been some dystopian lesson in human apathy.
I am so sorry. I am always afraid of that very thing. Lucky ducks are the people living and working on the W&OD trail. That’s a lot of stretches without cars. You only cross roads. ❤
Do you live in Switzerland by any chance? Because I got the exact same experience there. On top of that I got yelled at and someone even soaked me with their wiper fluids! Driving sure turn some people into psychopaths. I know some perfectly fine people who get overly aggressive and even endanger other people's life for the most pointless reasons. But I'm with you on this! Cycling should be a fast and relaxing mode of transportation. You shouldn't fear and fight for your life. Hopefully someday we will have some bike infrastructure so well designed and drivers so well behaved that this will not be an issue anymore
Recently riding in a bike lane in a small town... some guy's pushed a giant pile of brush into the bike lane with a skid steer tractor. I'm sitting waiting on traffic so i can get around it, the guy yells out "d1kc" and gives me the finger... again, just waiting for a chance to pass his pile of garbage, intentionally piled in the bike lane
Casey always had a special place in his heart for NYC’s bike lanes P.S. Would it be unethical to use this comment as a promoting chance of my own TH-cam grind?😕 Casey played huge part in it as well
Cars have no problem buzzing cyclists and running them off the road because “they don’t belong there,” so I would have zero issue reporting cars blocking bike lanes.
So glad Casey is back in NYC. One of the very few vloggers I will watch everytime they post a new one. The due is a class above anybody else on TH-cam when it comes to telling a story visually.
We have a team of people here who are trained to do this but for handicap parking spaces. A photo and an affidavit get sent to the DA's office. They use that to send a ticket via mail. They can dispute it and bring their tag (that wasn't hung) to get it dismissed, but it helps crack down on people who are park there without a tag.
can we just talk about how casey just casually uses a police cruiser's side as a drawing board? the absolute galaxy sized balls on this guy. EDIT: yes i am aware sharpie removal exists, thank you for the info youtube comment section
@@larsstougaard7097 The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. In one Age, called the Third Age by some, an Age yet to come, an Age long past, a wind rose above the great cityscape of New york. The wind was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning.
Casey, thank you so much for raising awareness to this issue. I was so hoping you would make another bike lane video. We need your help across the bridge in New Jersey! Our roads are becoming ever more congested with cars and the solution is more separate, dedicated bicycle lanes, as well as better, cheap public transportation. I applaud you for being the champion of this cause and I hope you never lose your passion for bicycle safety.
To be clear, the issue of cars blocking, driving in, and otherwise endangering cyclists in the bicycle lane would be completely eliminated by separating the bicycle lanes from automobile traffic using permanent pylons, curbs, jersey barriers, etc.
Casey, you gave me a great idea for an argumentative essay topic for my English class! Im a onewheel fanatic who has experienced everything you mentioned above lol.
oh man. serious OG vibes. Still remember being in college seeing the original bike lane vid not knowing who casey was or what youtube was or anything. this vid is a masterpiece.
Dope F’n content, I thought you were going one way with it, and you shock me at the end and deliver a message I wasn’t expecting. Man dude, thank you for inspiring me to create and do more sincerely.
Glad to see u back making videos. Few years back when I was at my first job, those 10 mins everyday spent on your daily vlogs were my favorite time during the day in the office.
They have this same system in Taiwan, but it applies to any kind of parking or driving violation. When the Government started this private cameras went everywhere and people had full-time jobs just sending in footage of traffic violations. It created a culture of snitching, though it cleaned the streets up!
@@joesmith4443 designated loading zones and regular parking spaces? They shouldn't have to break the law to do their jobs. It's possible the law is ill-conceived, or that infrastructure is lacking, but if it was cheaper to abide by the law than to break it, businesses would find a way.
![ตีสิบเดย์ [FULL] | คู่รักแซฟฟิก "หลิงหลิง - ออม" จากซีรีย์ "ใจซ่อนรัก"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zs8AfphGn2w/mqdefault.jpg)
its been like 10 years and this man is still chasing after the one thing that angers him
Nearly 20 years and it was the first ever viral video.
This is Casey's one true battle!
This is the sole reason he moved back to NYC
Facts!
@@jaysunbrady Nope, it's a little over a decade.
Casey crashing his bike into cars in a bike lane was a whole different level of nostalgia
He sent it way harder as a “kid”
This is a lie dnt belive it
I can't wait for someone to sue him for all of his worth and he would need to become a male gigolo to support his vlogging addiction!
@@mememagicisreal884 Seek help.
@@mememagicisreal884 dude get a life
That’s not ratting people out, that’s making sure you’re safe and keeping others around you safe.
Right! I think it's way more grimy to block a bike lane, especially since that can get someone killed.
Agreed, its enforcing laws that are officiallt in the books already. Essentially doing the job of traffic cops, except cheaper for taxpayers and overall system. One thing you can't do is extrapolate to large payoffs for lots of people long term. As soon as this goes into effect, people will obey the laws and there'd be less law breakers, and also less bounty to be collected. It's such a brilliant and simple idea, best combined for cyclists since everyone has a camera on phone, and cylists can easily stop to do this. If only more laws could be enforced in this way...
I have a problem reporting delivery trucks though. There is often no parking for those trucks. Where are they supposed to stop?
Communities have to enforce discipline on cheaters in the community in order for the community to function. We see it all the time in nature, for example bats and sharing food.
@@brandonsteele2826 Cities could implement delivery parking spots. Then have anyone else parking on them have to pay for time/sales losses of actual delivery drivers.
It's been 10 years and it is so great to see him back to his roots and what truely made his content fantastic
Casually writing on a NYPD cop car... Casey is back.
Lmfao only he could get away with that 😂
I fucking lost it when he started writing lmao
@@enrique-casillas Same haha
Definitely does graffiti
And with a permanent marker 😆
11 years later and hes still crashing into stuff blocking the bike lane. Legend
Woke city and ge complains lol. Bike lanes here in Portland are hardly used and just dull of pine needles and garbage.
You mean sad?
Classics!
@@jimdoe3288 that is probably why they aren’t used, genius.
thanks for sharing your thoughts @@jimdoe3288
Only Casey would recreate a scene from his "Bike lanes" video a decade ago JUST to tell a good story. The man is amazing!
His body has had a decade to heal from the previous video.
I've visited NYC this year for the first time ever and stayed/lived there for the summer.... It is an incredible city and now that I know how it feels to be there........Caseys Vlogs have just become even more special than they already were. On my last day there I was going to visit the outside of Caseys office but I'm gutted as I ran out of time as I had to catch my flight home back to the UK.
Oh man, opportunity missed! Too bad.
Holy shit dude, the vibe has never changed
Nah he’s just back now he’s home in nyc
Adhd
I am Dutch and seeing this many cars on bike lanes blows my mind. Giving tickets might be the only way to educate drivers about bike lanes.
It's so bad here I'm praying we start following what some of the best cities in Europe have done for Transit options
No, there are other ways...
1) Smashing off mirrors.
2) Smashing windows.
3) Flattening tires.
The list is endless.
Problem is, twisted 'Murican logic will prosecute this "property crime" as a potential felony. But endangering human beings? Nah, that's nothing. No crime. Nothing to see here. The cyclist probably wasn't wearing a helmet anyway.
@@carsonwilliams they will/are.
change for curb level protected bike lanes is beginning to be the standard in the US.
also dutch roundabouts are being designed and put in design manuals with raised crossings and other stuff.
the netherlands literally didn't even have a lot of painted bike lanes in the 80's.
the world evolves and designs get copied, which is really gonna US transportation in the coming decade.
Yes!
Let's be honest here. It's not tickets that keeps the bike lanes in the NL clear of bikes. Only an idiot would park in a bike lane. The kind of semi-accidental scratches you would get on your car...
Your 2011 bike lane video was how I was introduced to you. glad to see you still haven’t lost the fire!
Until you live in nyc, it’s hard to describe how infuriating it is when people park in the bike lane. I’d wish they’d go farther and let you report people that double park as well.
Or SF. I deal with it regularly.
Aren't there silly exceptions like deliveries? And certainly the police seem to ignore it at will even when not on official business.
in germany its the same people park on the bike lanes
@@fprintf The police ignore everything. They do nothing.
Im in a tiny city and it still gets to me. Painted gutter is blocked meaning I have to dart into traffic while cars are driving 50 mph and hope I can get around in time. At least in major cities cars cant get up to that kind of speed
I forgot how good Casey videos are. The pacing, the shot of unexpected. Taking full advantage of the visual medium. You're a phenomenal story-teller.
Bike lanes…
@@charlesbarclay1703 that’s what makes someone the most impressive. Making a somewhat boring topic engaging
he's a master of the edit. I bet his "forced march" of 1 blog a day over those years made him a proficient editor.
Casey casually using a marker on a cop car gave me anxiety like never before😂
he is too brave 😂
NYPD no less 💀
Not any marker. A sharpie 😂
The cops wouldn’t care anyway
You can erase that with expo marked layered on top of it. It blew my mind the first time on set.
I’ve visited the hospital twice due to cars / trucks parked in the bike lane in NYC. This is proposal is such a good idea; bikers unite!!!
Casey could give some tips on not getting injured, given how many times he crashes into vehicles in his previous bike lane video from a decade ago.
i just love casey he has the bollocks to do anything even if its writing on police vehicles
this man is bold asf for writing on the police car
i bet nypd love this guy. they probably cleaned it off for him afterwards and told him thank you
Yes, very radical of him I'm sure.....
As The Joker says, "it's not about the money. It's about sending a message"
Free promo video for the NY's finest... NYPD needs to pay him for the 1,000,000+ free views.
I bet he asked the cop that was sitting in the car.
After hearing about the 13 year old boy who died getting hit by a car because a semi-truck was parked in the bike lane, i have no problem reporting folks. Maybe give them a chance, but its a LOT more dangerous than people think.
Thanks for doing this work, Casey.
I think it’s too hard not to double park in the bike lane especially in nyc where there’s more cars than spots to park.
@@sharingiscaring53 idk about you, but if I didn’t have a spot to park my car legally, I wouldn’t drive one.
@@sharingiscaring53 so therefore its okay to risk the lives of bikers for your "ill be just a second"?
gtfo
@@charger875 it’s just understandable why most people would double park in these areas. There needs to be a better and real solution though because there is risk and danger in this approach as well.
@@Jarvalicious well most people in the city with a car are using it as to earn money….
I live in a much smaller city and just started biking to work. It's amazing how much stuff is in the bike lane that shouldn't be there.
Also I've only been doing it for two weeks and I've already been intentionally "buzzed" (where the driver intentionally tries to come towards the bike lane and scare the shit out of you), flipped off, and honked at (all different events and unprovoked).
I thought riding my bike would be a way to get some exercise and just be outside for a bit every day during a time I'd normally be driving. Instead it's been some dystopian lesson in human apathy.
I am so sorry. I am always afraid of that very thing. Lucky ducks are the people living and working on the W&OD trail. That’s a lot of stretches without cars. You only cross roads. ❤
Do you live in Switzerland by any chance? Because I got the exact same experience there. On top of that I got yelled at and someone even soaked me with their wiper fluids!
Driving sure turn some people into psychopaths. I know some perfectly fine people who get overly aggressive and even endanger other people's life for the most pointless reasons.
But I'm with you on this! Cycling should be a fast and relaxing mode of transportation. You shouldn't fear and fight for your life. Hopefully someday we will have some bike infrastructure so well designed and drivers so well behaved that this will not be an issue anymore
Recently riding in a bike lane in a small town... some guy's pushed a giant pile of brush into the bike lane with a skid steer tractor. I'm sitting waiting on traffic so i can get around it, the guy yells out "d1kc" and gives me the finger... again, just waiting for a chance to pass his pile of garbage, intentionally piled in the bike lane
Haven't seen you in years, but now am happy to see your channel!
Casey wearing a "Snitches get Stiches" hat makes this video a masterpiece.
Snitches get paid!!!!
I want a relationship as strong as Casey's love for NYC bike lanes
His love relationship is for TH-cam! His interest is content for TH-cam! One of his sub-interest categories is bike lanes. BIG difference!
This is a genius idea and I want it to exist in every city.
Lol id spend half my day doing it
Casey’s video always makes you feel awesome, I love it ❤
Casey is a graffiti artist at heart. Anytime he can write on or paint a vehicle or any other surface he does it.
@BrightForest Drawing on someone else's vehicle is still vandalism. Please don't make excuses for self-indulgent behavior.
@@julesjames593 Please don't Park on the Bike lane.
Spat my cup of tea out laughing when I saw you writing on the cop car. So funny. Man, I love your videos 😆
Used a Sharpie too! 😂
@@charlesrodriguez491 comes off easily
Love how he used it as a whiteboard, lol!
You’re such a god tier creator Casey, so artistic and always chasing equality and being a good person!!
0:25, that was some sweet physical comedy lol.
Casey’s beef with blocking the bike lane goes way back. That last part of the video was priceless.
The last part took we way back filled me with nastolgia
Casey always had a special place in his heart for NYC’s bike lanes
P.S. Would it be unethical to use this comment as a promoting chance of my own TH-cam grind?😕 Casey played huge part in it as well
Lmfaooo always 😂❤
and a special hatred for cops
and no one else cares
Always 😍
Missed his vlogs
So happy you are back in New York. It is like I have been put in a time machine to the glory days of TH-cam.
Love the fact that you keep talking about the importance of bike infrastructure!!
As someone who bikes to & from work on these wild streets, I (& all bikers) appreciate Casey highlighting these issues 🚲
Surely some better infrastructure could used with the money? Even if its raised curbs on the bike lanes
@@74_pelicans 100% agree! They’ve started to put some up but sadly they’re not everywhere yet
I almost cried from happiness from just the title of the video
You wont need to bike to work if this bill gets passed. Biking will be work ;)
@@JEDSaje15 love it! Yes!
So happy to have you back in NYC! Your vids inspired a whole TH-cam generation🕶️
Agreed ❤
Agree! 🙌
I'm happy for you Casey! Great video 🤜🏼
Brings back memories from when I watched his bike lane video for the first time. Glad hes back and posting!
Cars have no problem buzzing cyclists and running them off the road because “they don’t belong there,” so I would have zero issue reporting cars blocking bike lanes.
So glad Casey is back in NYC. One of the very few vloggers I will watch everytime they post a new one. The due is a class above anybody else on TH-cam when it comes to telling a story visually.
Haven't watched a CaseyNeistat video in 8 years
We have a team of people here who are trained to do this but for handicap parking spaces. A photo and an affidavit get sent to the DA's office. They use that to send a ticket via mail. They can dispute it and bring their tag (that wasn't hung) to get it dismissed, but it helps crack down on people who are park there without a tag.
Here where?
I’m literally gonna dedicate the rest of my time here to bike lanes even if it goes nowhere bike infrastructure just makes me feel good
Loved the intro 😂 nothing best Casey’s creativity when he’s in NYC ❤
And his willingness to ride straight into the back of a vehicle on a bike. That's commitment to cause.
I don't even live in the US, but I still feel like NYC got a puzzle piece back. Good to see you do so well, Casey.
can we just talk about how casey just casually uses a police cruiser's side as a drawing board? the absolute galaxy sized balls on this guy.
EDIT: yes i am aware sharpie removal exists, thank you for the info youtube comment section
they were probably a fan and let him
permanent marker (sharpie) is dissolved by alcohol
@@Kevinmadefilms also takes off the layer of cleat coat on the paint
@@Zack-jj8nn no it does not.
Sharpie takes off sharpie as well. Just scribble over what you wrote and wipe it off. (On metal)
I am so happy that Casey is making video again. It genuinely brings back so many good memories! 🙌
Same! So happy he’s back in the city ❤
He seems happy again.
I find it refreshing, definitely
I've waited 11 years for this legend to return
11 years? he was only in LA for a few years. lol
LA? he meant the original bike lane video from 11 years ago about this topic. lol
Wheel of time has been turning for years
@@larsstougaard7097 The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. In one Age, called the Third Age by some, an Age yet to come, an Age long past, a wind rose above the great cityscape of New york. The wind was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning.
@@pranavpatel563 wow amazing comment, thanks for taking time to write it 😊 🙏 ✨️
It’s why I subscribed to this guy. 11 years ago I still have a comment on the bike lanes video with it saying on brackets (subscribed) 😂
that start of a video is a BANG! Daym beautiful!
This shows how much love this guy has for NYC folks especially bikers. Respect!
Hell yeah I want that Karen salary
The sequel that we didn't know we wanted, but one we definitely needed
this would be a game changer here in the Philippines!
glad to see Casey bringing up a classic years later.
Your intro alone was worth my time... nice work, Casey!
11 years later and Casey is still the same man on a mission! I love it
Casey LOVES his bike lane videos 🚲 and SO DO I!
Hey Jackson. What’s up? 😂👍
I'll second that! I think that Casey's original Bile Lanes video was the the first thing of his that I ever saw.
Me too but IDK if I can be a KAREN
I’m so glad you are back in NYC 😂
Bike Lanes was the video that introduce me to Casey 8 years ago.
Love you Casey!
Just now I realized how weird were these 2 years without Casey's videos from NYC 🥰🥰🥰
Casey, thank you so much for raising awareness to this issue. I was so hoping you would make another bike lane video. We need your help across the bridge in New Jersey! Our roads are becoming ever more congested with cars and the solution is more separate, dedicated bicycle lanes, as well as better, cheap public transportation. I applaud you for being the champion of this cause and I hope you never lose your passion for bicycle safety.
To be clear, the issue of cars blocking, driving in, and otherwise endangering cyclists in the bicycle lane would be completely eliminated by separating the bicycle lanes from automobile traffic using permanent pylons, curbs, jersey barriers, etc.
Exactly!. You should give a visit to Not Just Bikes channel!.
New York needs to extend the subway even further out, make it more viable for people to commute in.
@@lynspyre I love Not Just Bikes! Thanks for the recommendation
Casey, you gave me a great idea for an argumentative essay topic for my English class! Im a onewheel fanatic who has experienced everything you mentioned above lol.
FULL CIRCLE! love it Casey
Ever since Casey has been back in nyc , I’m back to watching his videos again , this is the Casey that everyone missed
Same
Aren’t we all?
I love when you come full circle with your old material. Your content never gets old. Keep up the great work.
Jason! Have a lovely day!!!!!
Nostalgia thanks for that intro Casey❤️
Nice shot running into the van at the beginning to segway into the subject! 😂
id be paying my rent with those bounties lol
I'd be living my entire like off them...
oh man. serious OG vibes. Still remember being in college seeing the original bike lane vid not knowing who casey was or what youtube was or anything. this vid is a masterpiece.
Superb narration ! An artist at work.
Missed you man - such an inspiration
Dope F’n content, I thought you were going one way with it, and you shock me at the end and deliver a message I wasn’t expecting. Man dude, thank you for inspiring me to create and do more sincerely.
Glad to see u back making videos. Few years back when I was at my first job, those 10 mins everyday spent on your daily vlogs were my favorite time during the day in the office.
OMG you had me at "Cars parked in the *CRASH*"
Pure greatness. Epic vid. Back at it again haha
and
Yes i would totally sign up for the "Bike Lane Bounty" app
_Greetings form Zagreb_
I love these videos when you work on and how it's a follow up to the OG. What a great video! Thank you!
Entertaining as always, with the police car at the end 🤣
This seams all very familiar and I’m loving it
Keep spreading that bike advocacy Casey. Love to see it.
Casey! You inspire me to continue my TH-cam Journey! Thank you for posting regularly, we all need the motivation! 💥🤙
Running into the back of the van got me SOOO good 😂😂
Omg this brings me back to the old bike lane video
That intro was a jump scare 😂😂
They have this same system in Taiwan, but it applies to any kind of parking or driving violation. When the Government started this private cameras went everywhere and people had full-time jobs just sending in footage of traffic violations. It created a culture of snitching, though it cleaned the streets up!
Businesses order things so, does Casey were on earth are they supposed to unload their deliveries?
Culture of snitching
@@joesmith4443 designated loading zones and regular parking spaces? They shouldn't have to break the law to do their jobs. It's possible the law is ill-conceived, or that infrastructure is lacking, but if it was cheaper to abide by the law than to break it, businesses would find a way.
Great to have you back! You should also wear nta helmets when riding, normal bike (CPSC) helmets aren't that safe
The phone call to black screen is toooo goood
1:52 Casey uses police car as a drawing board hahah what a lad
Love how committed you are with your videos. Bike riding to and in the city is good fun.
Can’t say i di nit miss this type of vid
I don't laugh at a lot of things but the timing of your bike crash was just right for me 🙂
From a commuter bicyclist .... THANK YOU!
Casey you mastered the art of story telling so well. This is a good follow up from bike lanes video.
Ending is 🔥.
As a road cyclist who frequents the roads of Atlanta....this video makes me so happy.
El mejor video de toda la Carrera de Casey tiene segunda parte! Solo tuvimos que esperar 10 años. Un éxito
Casey isn't the hero we need but the hero we deserve.
Stay golden Ponyboy.
Casey is the real life friendly Spiderman of NYC
The man is 41 years old. He ceased being a boy 22 years ago.
@@mircat28 r/woooosh
@@mircat28 i think it’s a reference to the outsiders? old book from like the eighties
Nice Outsiders reference.
Literally jumped at the intro. That's commitment
OMG! A throwback episode!!! 😮
He's back on the bike lane stuff. We love it!
Casey: I have to make a quick calculation
Officer: No problem
Casey cashing in on nostalgic videos
same vibe and same energy as the original bike lane video.. loved it..
YES this is the voice we need thank you for making this
Nostalgia at its finest, its nuts how it still applies 11 years later 🙃