Aww man this is a tragic story. The session bassist is like the drummer from the Amen break. Billions have heard their work and they got paid nothing. Wild.
i was walking in druid hill, baltimore in 2008. rough area. saw a poster hanging on the wall of a burned up house : Jazz concert featuring Greg Coleman of the winstons.
Fortunately Tribe made money on shows and merch. All wasn't lost... Plus they have a historic record that they can STILL get paid off today for performing it!!! RIP Phif Diggy
That was much more messed up and underhand. They’d actually (thought they’d) licensed the sample until a week before release, the owner moved the goalposts and basically blackmailed band and label.
that’s why you ignore them and just release it. tribe called quest just paid a large marketing fee but maybe without that song they would’ve disappeared into oblivion
Note that after Tribe’s song dropped, Walk On The Wild Side was back on top 40 radio in 1990, even when they didn’t play Tribe. Old guys complaining about clearance and then making money so many different ways was so cynical.
@@buckodonnghaile4309 When theft is a victimless crime? Of course. There's no parallel between stealing the food off a starving family's table and repurposing an artistic motif. Physical property is 0-Sum, digital and intellectual property aren't.
Same problem with The Sneaker Pimps's "6 Underground" and John Barry......and so many others. Only solution, play the song yourself. Then sample. Then you have only to deal with cover rights. Even Dilla stopped sampling for years because of the sample clearing conundrum.
performance royalties for musicians would be a good start. It's crazy to me how America there still aren't performance royalties for musicians the same way as everywhere else in the world.
There are performance royalties, just not for session players. Very few places in the world give performance royalties for session musicians, as otherwise it would be pretty pointless to record an album that nobody is going to make any money off of except the record label. It's kind of a catch 22- be a session musician and get paid up front by the hour, or be a performing bandmember who makes royalties after the first 100,000 copies are sold, at 0.008% per unit. In most cases, hourly session musicians come out far better than band members do working the royalty system. Cases like the Clyde Stubblefield drumbreaks and the Herbie Flowers bassline(s) are unfair in hindsight, but how many thousands of hours did they get paid for performing on tracks that never made a dime in profit?
Dr. Buzzard’s Original Savannah Band for that slide guitar, “sunshower” August Darnell aka Kid Creole, killer sample that sticks out in other songs that likely used it to reference this track like MIA’s All I Wanna Do. Flipping stations one day ran into Sunshower and went on a deep dive researching the band, and then the sample history on something so simple that’s become so iconic via the samples.
This episode makes me think of De La Soul, Biz Markie, Pharoah Monch and many others. Sampling is an art and if weren’t for hip hop I wouldn’t know where these songs came from
Samples in hip hop are a major reason I’ve grown to be a fan of music in general. Dipset had a stint where some of their craziest samples were from 80s rock bands. I’d look for the sample and more often than not would end up playing the source material just as much as the song that sampled it. Same with guys like DOOM and Madlib sampling old soul & R&B and obscure jazz, etc from countries like France and Brazil
It was cool hearing this song during the end credits for TMNT Mutant Mayhem and hearing the youngsters singing along to it. Hopefully a new generation has been introduced to old school Hip Hop.
youtube monetization works like that too, you could make an hour of truly original content but if there's a 30 second piece of copyrighted music in the middle somewhere they get whatever the whole video makes. That ain't right. They should get paid for their contribution but all of it isn't fair play.
@@steve_santiago I initially read it was because they put the song out without clearing the sample but when you listen to Steely Dan clown them you get the feeling they don’t like rap at all and want to tax them.
They used a super obvious piece of "Black Cow," did not flip it at all, and then had a huge-ass hit with it. You couldnt go 10 minutes in NYC without hearing it, which is where Steely Dan lived.
@steve_santiago Are youtalking about the DVD when they are doing a deep dive of the 7 tracks on their groundbreaking 1977 album Aja. They comment on the process of making each track. When they play the beginning of Black Cow they chimed in with the " uptown baby we get down baby" chorus. Steely Dan had some incredible music. Even the Jazz cats dug their stuff.
Another great DTG. The irony is that Lou Reed (and Velvet underground whom I'm a fan of) was backed by Andy Warhol who was famous for his pop art copying objects like soup tins. And often didn't even make the art himself. Herbie should feel proud of his contribution to the track, even if he was part of Lou's factory. And I know Lou's dead but it was an ass move to take all the pie, you never know, he may have shared a bit with Herbie....but probably not. Lets hope he's having a perfect day watching DTG.
Will add to the irony here: Warhol didn't even create the banana for the Velvet Underground album cover... he ganked it off some nondescript food advertisement and paid no one for the right to do so.
Iron-clad defense that no one has ever tried: "My client didn't sample this song; he simply sampled himself, LISTENING to this song! That's way different!"
As soon as I saw the title of this video, I knew the answer was going to be Lou Reed. The man just didn't have the reputation of being sociable. Besides that, I've just read a biography about The Velvet Underground. It stated that Lou Reed had initially claimed 100% of all the VU-author's rights.
I think you're missing a thread here. You touched on it, but it goes deeper... Lou Reed (certainly in his solo career - and especially on 'Transformer') was really pushing the edges of "rock and roll" into R&B, jazz and even the soulful side of funk. "Walk on the Wild Side" could even be seen as a primordial precursor to rap, or at least Blondie's version of early rap. He was rhythmically speaking much more than he was "singing" and that bassline and loose, jazzy drums were fucking delicious! I think he was a genuine fan of hip-hop and probably saw himself as one of the early brick layers (as you allude to with his 'The Original Wrapper'). I think he may have been wanting to be recognized as such but, much more so, he wanted to be involved and continue to evolve and blend genres. Given his musical styles, I imagine he would have been a fan of Tribe and what they were doing, so when they just wanted the sample of his (not his) bassline, and given the pale performance of 'Wrapper', I think it was less that he felt slighted or pissed at them, than he saw the writing on the wall and knew the genre was moving on without him. Sure, it was a douche move, but he saw his career ending and wanted to get what he could while he could, because those collaborations just weren't going to come and nobody was seeing him as the godfather - or even grandfather - of hip hop. Tribe could have just refused and went with another sample, but I'm damned grateful they didn't!
As much as I love this channel, I feel like he doesn't really understand rock. That's fine, he doesn't make videos about rock and roll, it's just not his thing. This being said he should have looked into Lou's music more
Just no. Rap came up as a specific culture, Lou Reed was not part of it, he got inducted unwittingly by being sampled and he might have liked it but that doesn't just mean you get to be part of a scene you're not part of. He was part of his own scene, its why its not really featured hugely about Reed's career in this, its about hip hop's mainstream come up and where sampling intersects with artists, not about Lou Reed per say. Those werent just internet days where everyone was exposed to everything, there's a core nucleus of where hip hop and rap came from and it can be localized. He might have wanted to collaborate with rappers and even been influenced by the budding new genre in places but that by no means gives him a place in rap/hip hop history other than the context of this video. During hip hop's formative years he was living in Long Island while rap was brewing in the Bronx, he probably didnt even know anything about it until groups got bigger
why do white people need to be credited for every kind of music? White slave owners actually were the prime influence for blues music, luckily they got plenty royalties in their time lol
@@NathanALeeI thought this as soon as I saw Blondie. There's a difference between making something more accessible to a wider audience than making it altogether.
Honestly the bassline is so simple I think they literally could've just played a very similar bassline themselves and sampled that without getting sued for it
This is an awesome examination ofthe complexities of sampling and art crossing generations. Been a tribe fan since 1987-88 with "The Promo" & "Black is Black"on the The Jungle Brothers debut "Straight Out The Jungle". And I have greater appreciation of Lou Reed from this history; R.I.P. Rise In Power Lou Reed and DJ Jam Master Jay.
From what I remember, many many hip hop groups had tried to sample Lou Reed's music, especially "Walk on the Wild Side." He knew that once someone sampled it, that would be it for that song, so he got as much as could for it. Also, he was a solo artist into the 2000s. 90's era New York, Songs for Drella, and Magic and Loss are some of his best work.
As someone who has been a session musician, there was always kind of an understanding if you came up with something during a session you wouldn't get credited for it. Any ideas were part of your fee, dependent on who you worked for. If you pushed a producer or artist for more they would probably hire someone else to rerecord a slightly altered version of your part anyway (if they liked it enough) and not call you next time. Or worse, tell other people not to.
This video provides fantastic and educational information. It's relevant for both old-school hip-hop fans and modern music producers sampling sounds. 🙌🏽
Without watching the video, the 2 word answer is probably “Lou Reed”. It famously happened to De La Soul and Vanilla Ice )to name just 2). The thing is, the music industry did really well out of sampling… 🤔
I was lucky enough to see Phife perform solo before he passed and he said he haaaated this song for the simple fact that Lou Reed took all the pub and royalties. He still performed it for us though. RIP Phife
Peace brother. Method Man's mixing engineer here (also done some sample-free beats for him). Same 100% move happened with "All I Need". Ashford & Simpson wouldn't clear the sample unless they got the 100% publishing. Meth didn't like the song, RZA insisted, told him to trust him on that one and sure enough, they got a Grammy for it. Weird thing is Nick Ashford was the nicest dude, but I guess business is business...
Wow, that's wild. RZA really doesn't get the credit he deserves for being a musical genius and architect for their Wu's success and icon status. Thanks for sharing, fam, and for your delivering the world so much amazing music
I think it still needs to be negotiated, depending on whether or not a sample exploits the material that contstitutes intellectual property and if not, does the sample evoke or conjur an image of someones work, is it enough to conceptualise the broader work, Vs sampling that's transformative and becomes a work of intellect and subject to it's own copyright protection or status
As much as I disagree with Lou on this I also think it's important to know that Walk On the Wildside wasn't just any song but an extremely personal song. It was written about drag queens, prostitutes, and other marginalized people he met and befriended with the velvet in the 60s. All those people where dead by the time the velvets broke up less than 10 years later. It's a commemorative song for a his dead close friends who he knew noone else would sing for. I figure that also affected his bad choice. All you mentioned plus the song itself being so close to him might have pushed him overboad.
They asked him first, taking 💯 of a transformed work is dirty. Like when DC sued “Captain Marvel” because he was similar to Superman. Take the percentage that’s appropriate.
Well, depends on what kind of contract you sign as a studio musician. Great episode btw! Painting a house right now and it got me thinking, I'm painting the house so the owner can sell. Should I get part of the sale of the house since I after all painted it or should I get a one time payment for my services ? Just got me thinking. Love this channel man!
I don't get why artists are so harsh on sampling as it gets there music promoted when i hear a hip-hop track with a dope sample i look up the original track and listing to it and im pretty sure lots of people do that too..
7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1
thats cause its never about just the money man....not in america for suuuure they gotta keep proving it to you tooo look at the new internet they just unveiled lmao its about fear complaining and greed
Are you absolutely sure about that. Well maybe today. But pre internet days, in the 90's. Most of us thought that all of this music by these hip hop producers were written by them. Like Ready or not with the Fugeez. There is even my favorite trip song from Cream of Trip Hop 3,, which i was mesmerized by as a 12 year old kid, called Timbre, by Grantby which I found out later after the internet came that most of the music was written by the genius composer John Barry, that wrote almost everything regarding the James Bond films, including the the main theme. Before I couldn't belief how talented my heroes were. But then I found out I was giving them huge credit for what they didn't make.
@@Atlas65fun fact: DJing was a prominent thing back in the early days of Hip Hop. So people would know that it was sampled and where if they were really into it. Your issue stems from a lack of research and not the artist themselves.
@@Ignoreduser Well guess you are right. I knew that they did sample things back in the 90's I just didn't know that they sampled so much. To my deffence is that I was only 11, 12 when I was listening to tat genre, trip hop and hip, that sampled alot. little later i started to play the guitar and got much more into music that was written by the artists, not sampled - Though may I ask you, I was 12 at the time and this was back in 1996. pre internet time, where was I supposed to do all this research..?
I wonder if Lou Reed did the same to Mark Wahlberg, aka Marky Mark from the ‘90s as well when he released the song “Wild Side”with the Funky Bunch. That song basically sampled “Walk On The Wild Side” in its entirety.
Something needs to be done to compensate studio musician who so many times are creating the Hooks that make a song great. Sure a studio musician a tiny bit of the mechanical royalties, but it's for a rapidly diminishing time, at least that's who it worked in my day. The whole revenue and royality system in music is totally screwed up and need to be tossed out and a updated system for the 21st century created.
- [00:00] A Tribe Called Quest's "Can I Kick It" Sample Clearance and Lou Reed's 100% Royalties - Sample clearance complexities: Multiple samples used in "Can I Kick It" including drums from Lonnie Smith, horn stab from Sly and the Family Stone, and a baseline from Lou Reed's "Walk on the Wild Side". - Lou Reed's condition: Despite agreeing to clear the sample, Lou Reed demanded 100% of the publishing and royalties. - Implications: The lack of standardized fees in sample clearance exemplifies the imbalance of power in the music industry, disadvantaging artists like A Tribe Called Quest. - [03:19] Lou Reed's Relationship with Hip-Hop and Run DMC - Lou Reed's support for Run DMC: Inviting them to open for him and defending them against booing at a concert in 1984. - Lou Reed's venture into hip-hop: Releasing "The Original Wrapper" in 1986, indicating his interest in blending rock and rap. - Possible betrayal perception: Speculation on how Lou Reed might have felt betrayed by the hip-hop community, particularly after Run DMC collaborated with Aerosmith on "Walk This Way". - [07:52] Lou Reed's Perception of Collaboration and Betrayal in Music - Betrayal narrative: Speculation suggests that Lou Reed might have felt excluded from the collaboration process and therefore cleared the sample for "Can I Kick It" with the intention to reclaim control and royalties. - Symbolic connections: Comparisons drawn between song titles ("Walk on the Wild Side" and "Walk This Way") and perceived betrayals, highlighting potential motivations behind Reed's actions. - Impact on subsequent sampling: The dominance of Reed's 100% royalties decision sets a precedent for future sampling negotiations, impacting artists' creative freedom and financial gain.
It was just a couple weeks ago I was lamenting the fact that absolute masterpieces like People's Travels... and Paul's Boutique would never see the light of day under the present climate of sample clearance. Sampling should be looked at the same way mosaic art is looked at. Although it is made of pieces from different previous works it comes together to create something new where the whole is not merely the sum of it's parts.
Hip Hop samples a lot of extremely proficient musicians from Jazz to soul, to session house bands, to composers of every genre and then there’s the rockstars that can barely play their instrument that seem to always demand 100% of the publishing for two notes.
Run DMC had already done Rock Box in 1984, which was a precursor to Walk This Way, so rock and rap wasn't as new in 1986 (also Beasties were starting?) as you suggest.
Shouldn't have to pay to sample a song. It's a new thing. Copyright should promote the creation of new art. No one is copying here. They are innovating. Insane all around.
So glad you’ve made this, partly for selfish reasons. Is it just me, or is this version of the track NOT what was released in the UK? Until recently I’d only heard the Boilerplate Mix. Am I going crazy?
Have you heard one potential theory WHY Lou Reed took 100% of the credit for "Can I Kick It?"? The Velvet Underground song "Foggy Notion" when released on the "VU" album in 1985 has the songwriting credited to Lou Reed, Sterling Morrison, Doug Yule, Maureen Tucker and Hy Weiss. Hy Weiss being the publisher of a song which "Foggy Notion" quotes a section of lyrics from. Now, when ATCQ sampled "Walk On The Wild Side" without asking permission first, Barry Weiss, Hy's son, was an executive at Jive Records and Lou, being a vindictive man, sees his chance for revenge and took it fully.
Thata why that bassline was like that puzzled me for years because I only seen it as a Jazz bass but I hear the electric bass but I was not musically sophisticated to noticed ot was layered
Sales minus Cost of Goods sold. It was a beautiful yet expensive song to make. Honestly, I am trying to wrap my mind around it being unfair. And listen, I am a tribe fan. But if I choose to produce an expensive jacket and I choose to use the best products…. Nevermind. This is my industry and it’s still unfortunate they didn’t earn anything. Well… didn’t they get to tour with the song and the tour money belong to them right?
Lou Reed didn’t believe in flower power even when he was living and working in the 60’s. He was anti hippie. He hated anything flower power stood for. Ever heard his music?!
Would Lou Reed had wanted such a heavy payout if they had recreated the bass line with a hired gun? Since it's such an iconic riff, they'd still be risking getting sued if they tried that without contacting Reed before the release.
A lot of hip hop artists didnt make money during the 80s or 90s due to bad legal contracts not only sampling. De La with Tommy didn't make any money on the first albums.
So, what happened with Marky Mark's "Wildside", which is 100% based on Lou Reed's song, and released 1 year later? Maybe Lou knew that version (arguably a bigger hit) was coming out soon and decided to be petty with ATCQ.
I love all your work bro, but honestly I think it's time we took a deep dive into Maxwell's creative process! He gave us masterpieces such as Accession! and lake by the ocean! Wow!
They agreed to the deal. Lots of people kept just stealing songs and sampling is cool now but there is a period of time where it was just stealing beats.
Well I didn't know the specifics, but I 100% knew it was a certain tribe (not called quest) that took the money. "welcome to the music industry now give shlomo whatever tf he wants"
And now Laurie Anderson owns the rights? So many sides of my musical mind explode with love for that. The VU is easily in my top 5 of bands, but some of the stories from those times makes me want to punch Lou Reed. He was both right and wrong for a lot of it so you just have to shrug it off. Almost every icon of music is also holding a lot of misery. A dream ATCQ and VU collaboration would make my ears explode with joy.
Thats why Ye does "interpolation" instead of sampling a lot. "Walk This Way" was put together by Ric Rubin. Lou can get over himself on that mess. Love the class, keep dropping the knowledge.
I think it's funny how beastie boys was able to use so much samples in the early career but by the 90s they changed it so you had to ask the arts to use there music for a sample
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 84 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "ก้องศึก vs เมืองไทย"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3kuzsAIDf1c/mqdefault.jpg)
Industry rule #4080, record company people are shadyy
That's rule no1#
Shiftless!!
Kids, watch your back ‘cause I think they smoke crack
I don’t doubt it, look at how they act
@@leewightman8619it’s a q tip lyric
Industry rule #3333 distribution companies are shady
"can i try something, COURSE YA CAN"
came to the comments for this
Younsum rye? Courseyeedo!
Return to Zork.
lol legendary Herbie Flowers
My man knew what he was doing there
Someone get this man a beer, now!
Aww man this is a tragic story. The session bassist is like the drummer from the Amen break. Billions have heard their work and they got paid nothing. Wild.
I was thinking the same thing! Sampling rules are bull shit.
That’s how it goes man, sampling is a risk!
i was walking in druid hill, baltimore in 2008. rough area. saw a poster hanging on the wall of a burned up house : Jazz concert featuring Greg Coleman of the winstons.
Fortunately Tribe made money on shows and merch. All wasn't lost... Plus they have a historic record that they can STILL get paid off today for performing it!!! RIP Phif Diggy
Same thing happened with the verve's bittersweet symphony. I always wonder how many great songs we haven't heard because of sampling cost.
Years later the verve got the rights though
@@gfdggdfgdgf Too many years later
That was much more messed up and underhand. They’d actually (thought they’d) licensed the sample until a week before release, the owner moved the goalposts and basically blackmailed band and label.
that’s why you ignore them and just release it.
tribe called quest just paid a large marketing fee but maybe without that song they would’ve disappeared into oblivion
Better to think of all the great hip hop we got post 1990 when producers couldn’t just loop a James Brown drumbreak.
Note that after Tribe’s song dropped, Walk On The Wild Side was back on top 40 radio in 1990, even when they didn’t play Tribe. Old guys complaining about clearance and then making money so many different ways was so cynical.
Thank you!
“The job of resurrector, is to bring life to the dead.”
"Theft should be legal" -the young and dim
@@buckodonnghaile4309 boot leather tastes so sweet. The even dimmer.
@@buckodonnghaile4309 When theft is a victimless crime? Of course. There's no parallel between stealing the food off a starving family's table and repurposing an artistic motif. Physical property is 0-Sum, digital and intellectual property aren't.
Same problem with The Sneaker Pimps's "6 Underground" and John Barry......and so many others. Only solution, play the song yourself. Then sample. Then you have only to deal with cover rights. Even Dilla stopped sampling for years because of the sample clearing conundrum.
performance royalties for musicians would be a good start. It's crazy to me how America there still aren't performance royalties for musicians the same way as everywhere else in the world.
There are performance royalties, just not for session players. Very few places in the world give performance royalties for session musicians, as otherwise it would be pretty pointless to record an album that nobody is going to make any money off of except the record label. It's kind of a catch 22- be a session musician and get paid up front by the hour, or be a performing bandmember who makes royalties after the first 100,000 copies are sold, at 0.008% per unit. In most cases, hourly session musicians come out far better than band members do working the royalty system. Cases like the Clyde Stubblefield drumbreaks and the Herbie Flowers bassline(s) are unfair in hindsight, but how many thousands of hours did they get paid for performing on tracks that never made a dime in profit?
Dr. Buzzard’s Original Savannah Band for that slide guitar, “sunshower” August Darnell aka Kid Creole, killer sample that sticks out in other songs that likely used it to reference this track like MIA’s All I Wanna Do. Flipping stations one day ran into Sunshower and went on a deep dive researching the band, and then the sample history on something so simple that’s become so iconic via the samples.
This episode makes me think of De La Soul, Biz Markie, Pharoah Monch and many others. Sampling is an art and if weren’t for hip hop I wouldn’t know where these songs came from
That’s why I disagree with the bull..bs. As a DJ, I think people we sample should actually be paying us if anyone is paying.
De la soul and Biz markie
got sued for sampling
@@need-to-know-that makes absolutely no sense . Write your own song maybe 🤔
@@paulmcgrath6118 That’s like companies telling TH-camrs not to advertise for them, create your own products while you’re creating your own content.
Samples in hip hop are a major reason I’ve grown to be a fan of music in general. Dipset had a stint where some of their craziest samples were from 80s rock bands. I’d look for the sample and more often than not would end up playing the source material just as much as the song that sampled it. Same with guys like DOOM and Madlib sampling old soul & R&B and obscure jazz, etc from countries like France and Brazil
Some of the best music content on TH-cam. Thanks for all the continued work.
It was cool hearing this song during the end credits for TMNT Mutant Mayhem and hearing the youngsters singing along to it. Hopefully a new generation has been introduced to old school Hip Hop.
I have so much respect for the time, care, research and creativity that go into your videos. Thank you 🙌🏾
"Record industry people are shadyyyyyyy" - A Tribe Called Quest.
Industry rule number #4080
youtube monetization works like that too, you could make an hour of truly original content but if there's a 30 second piece of copyrighted music in the middle somewhere they get whatever the whole video makes. That ain't right. They should get paid for their contribution but all of it isn't fair play.
Same thing happened to Peter Gunz when he sampled Steely Dan for Déjà vu
That case was worse because Steely Dan were a-holes to them about it.
@@Polostar79 Yeah. I even heard those dudes posted a video clowning Tariq and Peter
@@steve_santiago I initially read it was because they put the song out without clearing the sample but when you listen to Steely Dan clown them you get the feeling they don’t like rap at all and want to tax them.
They used a super obvious piece of "Black Cow," did not flip it at all, and then had a huge-ass hit with it. You couldnt go 10 minutes in NYC without hearing it, which is where Steely Dan lived.
@steve_santiago Are youtalking about the DVD when they are doing a deep dive of the 7 tracks on their groundbreaking 1977 album Aja. They comment on the process of making each track. When they play the beginning of Black Cow they chimed in with the " uptown baby we get down baby" chorus. Steely Dan had some incredible music. Even the Jazz cats dug their stuff.
Another great DTG. The irony is that Lou Reed (and Velvet underground whom I'm a fan of) was backed by Andy Warhol who was famous for his pop art copying objects like soup tins. And often didn't even make the art himself. Herbie should feel proud of his contribution to the track, even if he was part of Lou's factory. And I know Lou's dead but it was an ass move to take all the pie, you never know, he may have shared a bit with Herbie....but probably not. Lets hope he's having a perfect day watching DTG.
Will add to the irony here: Warhol didn't even create the banana for the Velvet Underground album cover... he ganked it off some nondescript food advertisement and paid no one for the right to do so.
Both songs are legendary
Iron-clad defense that no one has ever tried: "My client didn't sample this song; he simply sampled himself, LISTENING to this song! That's way different!"
You do look like a lawyer so, case closed verdict goes to the defense
As soon as I saw the title of this video, I knew the answer was going to be Lou Reed. The man just didn't have the reputation of being sociable.
Besides that, I've just read a biography about The Velvet Underground. It stated that Lou Reed had initially claimed 100% of all the VU-author's rights.
Can you do a video on sample clearance and copyright in the music industry and the industry itself?
I think you're missing a thread here. You touched on it, but it goes deeper...
Lou Reed (certainly in his solo career - and especially on 'Transformer') was really pushing the edges of "rock and roll" into R&B, jazz and even the soulful side of funk. "Walk on the Wild Side" could even be seen as a primordial precursor to rap, or at least Blondie's version of early rap. He was rhythmically speaking much more than he was "singing" and that bassline and loose, jazzy drums were fucking delicious!
I think he was a genuine fan of hip-hop and probably saw himself as one of the early brick layers (as you allude to with his 'The Original Wrapper'). I think he may have been wanting to be recognized as such but, much more so, he wanted to be involved and continue to evolve and blend genres. Given his musical styles, I imagine he would have been a fan of Tribe and what they were doing, so when they just wanted the sample of his (not his) bassline, and given the pale performance of 'Wrapper', I think it was less that he felt slighted or pissed at them, than he saw the writing on the wall and knew the genre was moving on without him.
Sure, it was a douche move, but he saw his career ending and wanted to get what he could while he could, because those collaborations just weren't going to come and nobody was seeing him as the godfather - or even grandfather - of hip hop. Tribe could have just refused and went with another sample, but I'm damned grateful they didn't!
As much as I love this channel, I feel like he doesn't really understand rock. That's fine, he doesn't make videos about rock and roll, it's just not his thing. This being said he should have looked into Lou's music more
Just no. Rap came up as a specific culture, Lou Reed was not part of it, he got inducted unwittingly by being sampled and he might have liked it but that doesn't just mean you get to be part of a scene you're not part of. He was part of his own scene, its why its not really featured hugely about Reed's career in this, its about hip hop's mainstream come up and where sampling intersects with artists, not about Lou Reed per say. Those werent just internet days where everyone was exposed to everything, there's a core nucleus of where hip hop and rap came from and it can be localized. He might have wanted to collaborate with rappers and even been influenced by the budding new genre in places but that by no means gives him a place in rap/hip hop history other than the context of this video.
During hip hop's formative years he was living in Long Island while rap was brewing in the Bronx, he probably didnt even know anything about it until groups got bigger
why do white people need to be credited for every kind of music? White slave owners actually were the prime influence for blues music, luckily they got plenty royalties in their time lol
@@NathanALeeI thought this as soon as I saw Blondie. There's a difference between making something more accessible to a wider audience than making it altogether.
Honestly the bassline is so simple I think they literally could've just played a very similar bassline themselves and sampled that without getting sued for it
How much did Lou Reed pay Herbie Flowers for the bassline? Lou could hardly copyright chords I to IV, flowers did ALL the heavy lifting.
This is an awesome examination ofthe complexities of sampling and art crossing generations. Been a tribe fan since 1987-88 with "The Promo" & "Black is Black"on the The Jungle Brothers debut "Straight Out The Jungle". And I have greater appreciation of Lou Reed from this history; R.I.P. Rise In Power Lou Reed and DJ Jam Master Jay.
So you're telling me the Lou Reed slipped in a dis track to Run DMC?
From what I remember, many many hip hop groups had tried to sample Lou Reed's music, especially "Walk on the Wild Side." He knew that once someone sampled it, that would be it for that song, so he got as much as could for it.
Also, he was a solo artist into the 2000s. 90's era New York, Songs for Drella, and Magic and Loss are some of his best work.
As someone who has been a session musician, there was always kind of an understanding if you came up with something during a session you wouldn't get credited for it. Any ideas were part of your fee, dependent on who you worked for. If you pushed a producer or artist for more they would probably hire someone else to rerecord a slightly altered version of your part anyway (if they liked it enough) and not call you next time. Or worse, tell other people not to.
This is such a greatly produced and researched youtube program put together with obvious love for the culture. Salute
I wonder if he charged marky mark when they sampled it for take a walk on the wild side
Me too.
Excellent video. I first found out about this via your video on sampling 78s. Yes, it's really messed up.
"Spirit Mix" version is the best version of Can I Kick It. The video uses that remix
This video provides fantastic and educational information. It's relevant for both old-school hip-hop fans and modern music producers sampling sounds. 🙌🏽
Without watching the video, the 2 word answer is probably “Lou Reed”. It famously happened to De La Soul and Vanilla Ice )to name just 2). The thing is, the music industry did really well out of sampling… 🤔
I was lucky enough to see Phife perform solo before he passed and he said he haaaated this song for the simple fact that Lou Reed took all the pub and royalties. He still performed it for us though. RIP Phife
Peace brother. Method Man's mixing engineer here (also done some sample-free beats for him).
Same 100% move happened with "All I Need". Ashford & Simpson wouldn't clear the sample unless they got the 100% publishing. Meth didn't like the song, RZA insisted, told him to trust him on that one and sure enough, they got a Grammy for it. Weird thing is Nick Ashford was the nicest dude, but I guess business is business...
Wow, that's wild. RZA really doesn't get the credit he deserves for being a musical genius and architect for their Wu's success and icon status. Thanks for sharing, fam, and for your delivering the world so much amazing music
I really liked your videos and I was wondering if you can analyze People Under The Stairs, they're one of the greatest underground duos
I think it still needs to be negotiated, depending on whether or not a sample exploits the material that contstitutes intellectual property and if not, does the sample evoke or conjur an image of someones work, is it enough to conceptualise the broader work, Vs sampling that's transformative and becomes a work of intellect and subject to it's own copyright protection or status
As much as I disagree with Lou on this I also think it's important to know that Walk On the Wildside wasn't just any song but an extremely personal song. It was written about drag queens, prostitutes, and other marginalized people he met and befriended with the velvet in the 60s. All those people where dead by the time the velvets broke up less than 10 years later. It's a commemorative song for a his dead close friends who he knew noone else would sing for. I figure that also affected his bad choice. All you mentioned plus the song itself being so close to him might have pushed him overboad.
They asked him first, taking 💯 of a transformed work is dirty. Like when DC sued “Captain Marvel” because he was similar to Superman. Take the percentage that’s appropriate.
I wonder if Lou Reed did the same thing to MARKY MARK aka MARK WALBERG when he made his song " WYLDSYDE"?????....🤔🤔🤔🤔
I looked this up but couldn’t find a definitive answer!
Watching this reminds me of The funk Brothers... You're right we need new systems in place.
Really good work on this piece!
WHAT!!? G-d spoke to you directly? Bob "MF" Power!!!
This is arguably your best video.
Lou Reed was also a huge fan of the Kanye West album "Yeezus". So he stood up for hip hop even to the end of his life.
i thought john cale would be a fan of it
Well Lou is “the original rapper” (circa 1986)
@@brendonross5774 1986? Are you suggesting rap started in 1986?
@@startervisions lol stop it Lou Reed’s song “Original (w)Rapper” is a certified hood classic!!!
@@CantTellYou never heard it
Was waiting for an explanation of what the other sampled artists received.
Brilliant track! Back when most people had no idea Q Tip was this much of a genius.
These AI apps need a sample clearance process for using other people’s intellectual property.
This seems like a no brainer.
@@Thatguyoverthere606 True but the AI lobby won’t like the regulatory constraint.
Well, depends on what kind of contract you sign as a studio musician.
Great episode btw!
Painting a house right now and it got me thinking, I'm painting the house so the owner can sell.
Should I get part of the sale of the house since I after all painted it or should I get a one time payment for my services ?
Just got me thinking.
Love this channel man!
Lou Reed taking a walk on the safe side with his lawyer.
I don't get why artists are so harsh on sampling as it gets there music promoted when i hear a hip-hop track with a dope sample i look up the original track and listing to it and im pretty sure lots of people do that too..
thats cause its never about just the money man....not in america for suuuure they gotta keep proving it to you tooo look at the new internet they just unveiled lmao its about fear complaining and greed
Are you absolutely sure about that. Well maybe today. But pre internet days, in the 90's. Most of us thought that all of this music by these hip hop producers were written by them. Like Ready or not with the Fugeez. There is even my favorite trip song from Cream of Trip Hop 3,, which i was mesmerized by as a 12 year old kid, called Timbre, by Grantby which I found out later after the internet came that most of the music was written by the genius composer John Barry, that wrote almost everything regarding the James Bond films, including the the main theme. Before I couldn't belief how talented my heroes were. But then I found out I was giving them huge credit for what they didn't make.
@@Atlas65fun fact: DJing was a prominent thing back in the early days of Hip Hop. So people would know that it was sampled and where if they were really into it. Your issue stems from a lack of research and not the artist themselves.
@@Ignoreduser Well guess you are right. I knew that they did sample things back in the 90's I just didn't know that they sampled so much. To my deffence is that I was only 11, 12 when I was listening to tat genre, trip hop and hip, that sampled alot. little later i started to play the guitar and got much more into music that was written by the artists, not sampled - Though may I ask you, I was 12 at the time and this was back in 1996. pre internet time, where was I supposed to do all this research..?
@@Atlas65 the internet existed since the 90s plus if you watch a few black media during the time you’d learn a little bit about hip hop
I wonder if Lou Reed did the same to Mark Wahlberg, aka Marky Mark from the ‘90s as well when he released the song “Wild Side”with the Funky Bunch. That song basically sampled “Walk On The Wild Side” in its entirety.
Music IP should be about getting the originator paid, not about creating monopolies
I’d love for you to do a retrospective on tribes first album. Great video btw.
if Lou wouldve known the 20yr history of rappers and the drum intro on Walk before he had run dmc open he probably would've understood
Lou was like F around and find out lol. Da man!
That bass line is top 5 of all time. The fact that bassist didn’t make more on that totally unique hook is insane.
This song got me into Lou Reed because that sample is so good
What beat is that in the background of the beginning of this video?
Lou Reed a multi millionaire taking 100% so his name should be Lou greed
lol yeah i used to think he was bulletproof but uhhh idk now
He has the complexion for the protection and the connection.
Ima use this as a title
Haha good one
@@phunkidrumaWhere did you learn to say this sort of thing?
Something needs to be done to compensate studio musician who so many times are creating the Hooks that make a song great. Sure a studio musician a tiny bit of the mechanical royalties, but it's for a rapidly diminishing time, at least that's who it worked in my day. The whole revenue and royality system in music is totally screwed up and need to be tossed out and a updated system for the 21st century created.
- [00:00] A Tribe Called Quest's "Can I Kick It" Sample Clearance and Lou Reed's 100% Royalties
- Sample clearance complexities: Multiple samples used in "Can I Kick It" including drums from Lonnie Smith, horn stab from Sly and the Family Stone, and a baseline from Lou Reed's "Walk on the Wild Side".
- Lou Reed's condition: Despite agreeing to clear the sample, Lou Reed demanded 100% of the publishing and royalties.
- Implications: The lack of standardized fees in sample clearance exemplifies the imbalance of power in the music industry, disadvantaging artists like A Tribe Called Quest.
- [03:19] Lou Reed's Relationship with Hip-Hop and Run DMC
- Lou Reed's support for Run DMC: Inviting them to open for him and defending them against booing at a concert in 1984.
- Lou Reed's venture into hip-hop: Releasing "The Original Wrapper" in 1986, indicating his interest in blending rock and rap.
- Possible betrayal perception: Speculation on how Lou Reed might have felt betrayed by the hip-hop community, particularly after Run DMC collaborated with Aerosmith on "Walk This Way".
- [07:52] Lou Reed's Perception of Collaboration and Betrayal in Music
- Betrayal narrative: Speculation suggests that Lou Reed might have felt excluded from the collaboration process and therefore cleared the sample for "Can I Kick It" with the intention to reclaim control and royalties.
- Symbolic connections: Comparisons drawn between song titles ("Walk on the Wild Side" and "Walk This Way") and perceived betrayals, highlighting potential motivations behind Reed's actions.
- Impact on subsequent sampling: The dominance of Reed's 100% royalties decision sets a precedent for future sampling negotiations, impacting artists' creative freedom and financial gain.
It was just a couple weeks ago I was lamenting the fact that absolute masterpieces like People's Travels... and Paul's Boutique would never see the light of day under the present climate of sample clearance. Sampling should be looked at the same way mosaic art is looked at. Although it is made of pieces from different previous works it comes together to create something new where the whole is not merely the sum of it's parts.
Hip Hop samples a lot of extremely proficient musicians from Jazz to soul, to session house bands, to composers of every genre and then there’s the rockstars that can barely play their instrument that seem to always demand 100% of the publishing for two notes.
I didn’t realize herbie flowers has an interview, he’s incredible at bass
Run DMC had already done Rock Box in 1984, which was a precursor to Walk This Way, so rock and rap wasn't as new in 1986 (also Beasties were starting?) as you suggest.
Also Blondie in 1980 with “Rapture” and the Clash with “Magnificent 7” (1981), “This is Radio Clash” and “Lightning Strikes” RE cross genre tracks.
Shouldn't have to pay to sample a song. It's a new thing. Copyright should promote the creation of new art. No one is copying here. They are innovating. Insane all around.
A great Double bassline from the the great Herbie Flowers
I never knew! Thanks for educating me 🙏
Interesting video. Good job on the production
Whats the name of the song playing at the end if this video?
So glad you’ve made this, partly for selfish reasons. Is it just me, or is this version of the track NOT what was released in the UK? Until recently I’d only heard the Boilerplate Mix. Am I going crazy?
Have you heard one potential theory WHY Lou Reed took 100% of the credit for "Can I Kick It?"? The Velvet Underground song "Foggy Notion" when released on the "VU" album in 1985 has the songwriting credited to Lou Reed, Sterling Morrison, Doug Yule, Maureen Tucker and Hy Weiss. Hy Weiss being the publisher of a song which "Foggy Notion" quotes a section of lyrics from. Now, when ATCQ sampled "Walk On The Wild Side" without asking permission first, Barry Weiss, Hy's son, was an executive at Jive Records and Lou, being a vindictive man, sees his chance for revenge and took it fully.
Thank you for elaborating on this history ❤
Great presentation
Thata why that bassline was like that puzzled me for years because I only seen it as a Jazz bass but I hear the electric bass but I was not musically sophisticated to noticed ot was layered
Check out the story behind “Double Dutch Bus “ with Frankie Smith and Producer Gene Leone.
Steely Dan did the same thing to Lord Tariq and Peter Gunz. They actually had no writing credits on the song too! 😮
I wonder if he did the same thing to Marky Mark & The Funky Bunch when they sampled the same song and used the same name of the song they sampled.
Sales minus Cost of Goods sold. It was a beautiful yet expensive song to make. Honestly, I am trying to wrap my mind around it being unfair. And listen, I am a tribe fan. But if I choose to produce an expensive jacket and I choose to use the best products…. Nevermind. This is my industry and it’s still unfortunate they didn’t earn anything. Well… didn’t they get to tour with the song and the tour money belong to them right?
Lou Reed didn't believe much in "flower power" when it was his money on the line.
Lou Reed didn’t believe in flower power even when he was living and working in the 60’s. He was anti hippie. He hated anything flower power stood for. Ever heard his music?!
Did he do the same thing with Marky Mark and the funky bunch?
Lou Reed had no shortage of chips on his shoulders. So yeah, this seems more than plausible.
Totally unrelated but do you know if the baseline used on "wild side" was an influence to the baseline of RHCP's "otherside"?
One of their best jamz
Would Lou Reed had wanted such a heavy payout if they had recreated the bass line with a hired gun? Since it's such an iconic riff, they'd still be risking getting sued if they tried that without contacting Reed before the release.
A lot of hip hop artists didnt make money during the 80s or 90s due to bad legal contracts not only sampling. De La with Tommy didn't make any money on the first albums.
So, what happened with Marky Mark's "Wildside", which is 100% based on Lou Reed's song, and released 1 year later?
Maybe Lou knew that version (arguably a bigger hit) was coming out soon and decided to be petty with ATCQ.
i love these videos so much. thanks for making them!
Don t know about the betrayel Part. Why should he feel betrayed bc of the collaboration with another group?
I love all your work bro, but honestly I think it's time we took a deep dive into Maxwell's creative process! He gave us masterpieces such as Accession! and lake by the ocean! Wow!
Didn't Tracy Chapman do the same thing To Nice and Smooth with the "Fast Car" sample in Sometimes I rhyme slow?
So basically you're saying we should give Herbie Flowers his flowers
icl background music is hitting
Didn't Marky Mark and his Funky Bunch sample the same bassline back in the day?
Yes
They agreed to the deal. Lots of people kept just stealing songs and sampling is cool now but there is a period of time where it was just stealing beats.
Well I didn't know the specifics, but I 100% knew it was a certain tribe (not called quest) that took the money. "welcome to the music industry now give shlomo whatever tf he wants"
And now Laurie Anderson owns the rights? So many sides of my musical mind explode with love for that. The VU is easily in my top 5 of bands, but some of the stories from those times makes me want to punch Lou Reed. He was both right and wrong for a lot of it so you just have to shrug it off. Almost every icon of music is also holding a lot of misery. A dream ATCQ and VU collaboration would make my ears explode with joy.
Love your work, digging your vids
Thats why Ye does "interpolation" instead of sampling a lot. "Walk This Way" was put together by Ric Rubin. Lou can get over himself on that mess. Love the class, keep dropping the knowledge.
I think it's funny how beastie boys was able to use so much samples in the early career but by the 90s they changed it so you had to ask the arts to use there music for a sample