If my father stole a car and I enhirit it knowingly how he got it I'm a thief too, and if I'm a halfway decent person I will give it back with no debate. Saying he enherited and didn't ask for it, is clearly heartless nonsense. I'm also dissapointed at Edith for saying the food shortage in Zimbabwe was caused by poeple getting land and not telling the truth that it was SANCTIONS that led to poverty.
Exactly. The host was making it seem like having our ancestral land taken from us is worth it for the right price figure. That land is more than just a business venture.
The thing is though pretty much all property/land is stolen if you go long enough back in history, with very few exceptions. The argument you are making is really more-so an argument for socialism, all those who work should be the collective owners of the land.
This is a global international issue . Time do not bury crimes against humanity. No amount of money will bring back the lives lost from genocide. No apology can restore a culture. Reparations from British and French and German has to step forward. This is a global international call for anwner from these invading a army of posts Jim Crow
Nice documentary. Infact not only did people lost land in Namibia, but the people were driven into most arid dry infertile areas of farming land. It's unfortunate that the descendants of the colonizers eventually found themselves in the middle of something they actually do not really understand. I really do agree on the part creating opportunities for the youth, educational opportunities in Germany for example, scholarships as well as building educational institutions in the villages of affected communities, improve infrastructure, there's really so much to do.
take germans their Land away in namibia it didn't work in zimbabwe. African's need the Germans' we need each other. th-cam.com/video/Sqf6DRFBnRQ/w-d-xo.html
LOL without Europe you would still be hunting with a fucking bow and arrows so choose ur words wisely. One small sanction from Europe to one of the counties in Africa and millions of Africans would fucking suffer and die from hunger so shut up
Purchasing stolen goods is morally and legally wrong. Moreover, there is genocide. That has no price ! The problem is that Germany, which must pay for its faults in the war in Europe, refuses to take its real responsibilities in Africa. Land is the superior good in African culture. It belongs to the community and constitutes its identity and source of life.💔💯✊
It has been a superior good in any society at some stage, including European tribes and nations before the age of enlightenment and industrialisation. The more a society advances, the less important individual land ownership becomes. It's still important as a source of food for the domestic market and as an export industry, but no longer on the individual or communal level of identity and culture. It would be the same in Namibia once Namibia reaches that stage of development. Germany has already agreed to paying reparations. What more do you expect? The atrocities can not be undone. Unlike the Boers, at the very least Germany has accepted responsibility and apologised. When will you hold the Boers accountable, who have committed many atrocities in Namibia and neigbouring Angola, even bombing refugee camps? And please don't forget that one half of Germany, the former GDR has actually supported Namibia throughout it's liberation struggle. GDR has done more for Namibia than any other country in the world (Cuba and USSR being second). At some point you have to become truely INDEPENDENT instead of waiting for handouts. Where is the self-agency and self-sufficiency when you continue to wait for payments from Europe?
@@esahm373 Don't use the word "handouts" that's a right wing reactionary term, and we aren't talking about anything in the past. Foreign capital still exploits africa as mercilessly as they did 100 years ago. Most african governments are indepdendent in name only
The white farmer is obviously note for note the same as they were in 1904. Painfully so, he sees nothing wrong with the history of Namibia. So, Lost Causeism
Give Namibians their land back so they can grow. They will use that 11bn to develop themselves and their country. get out of that country, your intentions to go there were evil from scratch, leave Africa alone and stop imposing yourselves, go farm in germany.
I am just imagining this same thing happening in Europe. I can bet you that they will kill any African if they do the same thing in Europe . The world is so biased .
I went to Namibia in December for five weeks first time on the African continent, and it was quite evidence to see that the white have all the wealth and the land where my wife family live in the village. It is on a reserve. You actually drove through a gate to go on the reserve where the locale live and you drove hundreds of kilometre throw Farmland that owned by the white pretty evidence..
Your frustration is understandable but that won't solve much, because the wealthy control the world no matter where they live, if they leave the country they could still exploit it by buying up property there. Also as I am not Namibian I don't know the situation but I would probably wager to guess there are at least some whites there that are working class and poor, if they are, they deserve to stay there as working class people do not exploit .
@@yonasghebre7940 Show me one African in Europe that has stolen land from any European and still owns it. 2. Show me one African that has stolen land and passed it on to their descendants in Europe.
@@DWThe77Percent I don't know if you give the penelists a chance to prepare for the debate or if you go around randomly selecting people in the communities but a better informed and well read group would have been better. There were some that were giving good points and others were just not it man. A debate this important should have people giving valid and strong points. The world is watching. We (the Ovaherero) were not well represented, neither were the white farmer's descendants
The problem we have is that we define ourselves by the tribes that we are and dont united to fight for the same end goal. You just said you as a wambu you are also an offspring and I totally agree that your ancestors also contributed to the struggle for us to get the freedom of movement which we don’t see as blood that was shed. If you look into this genocide talk only the Nama ad Herero people are fighting this fight alone the rest of us are not supporting because in history we were told only 2 groups were killed. If we all united as one nation stood up and all had the same end goal just me we would have tackled the land issue in just a 1 year straight after independence. We need to unite.✊🏿✊🏿✊🏿
They clearly selected people that are not well educated when it comes to the genocide metter. This whole interview has me questioning my self on Which team she is on. She Seem more like a German ( kaavar)
it does not make much sense that the descendants of both perpetrators and victims have to be "stuck" in the same situation: just because the culprits are no longer here doesn't mean that the debt is deleted: it falls on the heirs. Why does the white should enjoy 40K hectares of land just because he was born somewhere? no man..we need to revisit that and re-split equally. Also, is the Germans were truly sorry, they would have come back and built the country. FOR FREE!! roads, schools, hospitals, offices, houses, flats, buildings! everything for free!that's how you show you are truly sorry and you want to repair.Don't send a check when we don't even know if these people will receive a dime.
I'm not an expert on Namibia but it doesn't take a huge amount of research to see that is exactly what the Germans did. From corruption to housing, roads and quality of life. Namibia is head and shoulders above their neighbours.
Are you saying that the Namibian government, state and society is not going to be able to make good use of that money? Germany is no longer a Colonial power, the repraration payments are in acknowledgement of PAST atrocities. Why would you demand neo-colonial interference, when the Namibians have fought so hard for INDEPENDENCE (= not depending on a colonial or foreign power)? Namibia is a sovereign country with a sovereign government. If they fail to make good use of the money, than that's outside of the area of responsibility of the German government.
@@esahm373 "Namibia is a sovereign country with a sovereign government. If they fail to make good use of the money, than that's outside of the area of responsibility of the German government." Haha, no it isn't, no poor country can really be sovereign because of the way the global market works, those in poor capitalist countries governments will sell-out to foreign financiers for profit, africa is independent in name only.
@@terrancewood9322 Nobody forces you to be capitalist in today's world, this is an example of your geopolitical ignorance. Secondly, if you want to argue that you are logically victims of colonialism, we must also observe the logical fact that Namibians are also beneficiaries whether directly or indirectly. Nobody owes Namibians money.
Thanks to DW for facilitating the discussion. I neither agree with the settler, who claims that the farms were fairly and legally acquired under colonial and apartheid "law" (what an insult to the Indigenous who suffered under these criminal regimes), nor do I agree with the uneducated, short-sighted delusions of some of the other participants, for example the lady claiming that the current government had "nothing to do" with the current inequality. We can all agree that the past has been atrocious, yet look at the Jewish who built a highly self-reliant nation after surviving the Holocaust (no matter what you politically think of that state, it's highly productive, developed and self-reliant).
But how can you compare a people that live in first world countries to a people that live in a 3rd world country that has only been independent for 32 years? After the Germans left the white racist South African government took over and they did the same thing the Germans did, they took land from Namibians. We are a predominantly agricultural country and having land is a major advantage. The Herero people are especially good at livestock farming. Imagine how many generations were wiped out that would have helped the nation economically. Over 80% Ovaherero were killed, 80%! We live in an African country where the land is predominantly white owned. White men from Europe.
@@munagarcia5711 Yes Sir, I'm aware of all the colonial and apartheid atrocities. I'm of Black South African extraction and my family was persecuted by the racists. Yet, we have no one to blame with our former liberation movements having been in power for the last three decades. It seems they messed up and did not manage to pursue the progresses that were promised to us. SWAPO still makes business with the same criminal diamond and commodities cartels that benefitted during apartheid, selling out precious Namibian natural resources. Also keep in mind that most of Namibia is not arable land anyway. So there is not enough land to distribute anyway. You want to redistribute rare highly productivity commercial farm land owned by descendants of settlers to people using the same land for low productivity traditional subsistence farming? Just looking at it pragmatically without ideology: how is that going to advance Namibia's agricultural sector? I'm for redistribution, but only if it's ensured that the persons receiving commercial farm land have the training that enables them to run a successful commercial operation. I would say that we should step-by-step (but continually and consistently) increase Black ownership and management of farms, but not abruptly and without a longterm strategy in place, just to win populist ideological points. Also, a modern economy can not depend on land ownership as the only source of income. That idea itself is flawed. As if agriculture is the only sector accessible to Namibians. Other business sectors, such as eco-tourism, the IT-industry, solar and sustainable energy need to be explored and increased. Refinement of minerals and natural resources must be fully Namibian owned, so that the benefits don't land in foreign pockets of the same criminal cartels that benefitted from apartheid.
@esähM I completely agree with you on the government having to have done a better job after getting independence, it's a point I forgot to highlight in my comment. Unfortunately like many African countries the people that took control were greedy and they put themselves and their relatives in positions of power and wealth and they directly gain advantages from some laws that were set by our colonialists. On the point about the land not being used to its full potential by locals... I have seen a major shift from just livestock and small scale farming to a more hybrid farming that involves planting crops and beef production on a commercial scale from black Namibian farmers. Because they have realised the point you made and are adopting a more commercial farming style. Personally my family does it, crop farming and ox production that we sell for meat production. Like many black farmers we unfortunately do not have the financial ability to invest in large scale crop production as much as we would like to. Commercial farming is a new thing to black farmers because we are only able to buy farms now sir/ma'am. While our white counterparts have had their farms for generations. Do you think if we had land for that long we would still farm traditionally? No. We would have made the transition to commercial farming long ago. Yes an economy cannot only survive on agriculture, ours doesn't, fishing, mining, tourism are some of the other major contributors to our economy. But like in South Africa, most of these industries are controlled by whites. The law protects them just like in your country, it's harder for black people to get loans big enough to fund ventures that can compete against these companies that were set up decades and decades ago, just like in your country. The system has been set up to keep us at the level we are. Trust me we want to move into other industries, but these industries are controlled by whites and corrupt politicians
@@esahm373 I completely agree with you on the government having to have done a better job after getting independence, it's a point I forgot to highlight in my comment. Unfortunately like many African countries the people that took control were greedy and they put themselves and their relatives in positions of power and wealth and they directly gain advantages from some laws that were set by our colonialists. On the point about the land not being used to its full potential by locals... I have seen a major shift from just livestock and small scale farming to a more hybrid farming that involves planting crops and beef production on a commercial scale from black Namibian farmers. Because they have realised the point you made and are adopting a more commercial farming style. Personally my family does it, crop farming and ox production that we sell for meat production. Like many black farmers we unfortunately do not have the financial ability to invest in large scale crop production as much as we would like to. Commercial farming is a new thing to black farmers because we are only able to buy farms now sir/ma'am. While our white counterparts have had their farms for generations. Do you think if we had land for that long we would still farm traditionally? No. We would have made the transition to commercial farming long ago. Yes an economy cannot only survive on agriculture, ours doesn't, fishing, mining, tourism are some of the other major contributors to our economy. But like in South Africa, most of these industries are controlled by whites. The law protects them just like in your country, it's harder for black people to get loans big enough to fund ventures that can compete against these companies that were set up decades and decades ago, just like in your country. The system has been set up to keep us at the level we are. Trust me we want to move into other industries, but these industries are controlled by whites and corrupt politicians
Israel build it's wealth from western imperialism funding it and arming it (it's an outpost of western imperialism in the middle east) and also from the exploitation of the palestinian people.
As a German, I’m so sorry for what my ancestors did to the people of Namibia. Unfortunately our politicians are still a bunch of clowns who never take accountability. Now they’re sending millions of euros to Israel’s army and denying there’s a genocide happening in Gaza. Germany seems to be very committed to always being on the wrong side of history.
Most of the people in this video wouldn’t have even a clue what to do with land, they wouldn’t develop it or grow anything. This has happened in other African countries and failed farmers which leads to starvation which leads to more free aid and it never ends!
Aid has never been given for "free", the "aid" you are talking about is western imperialist powers (and chinese imperialism more recently), giving predatory "loans" on which they can make poor countries indebted to them and then use those debts to control those countries economically and politically. Much of Africa is independent in name only.
"Most of the people in this video wouldn’t have even a clue what to do with land, they wouldn’t develop it or grow anything" Sounds like wealth should be redistributed towards education so that they can learn eh? Glad you support land reform.
The journalist chooses a side and then tries to start a race-based argument every chance she gets..."So how do you feel that this person said you stole your land and you should give it back?" "Why don't you donate your money to someone else?" The German government formed in 1949 has never committed Genocide against Namibia. How are people responsible for something they never did, had no control over, and weren't even alive for? And it has to be an infinite line of credit responsible for any hardship a Black Nambian faces? When is it long enough, or does it last forever? This crowd of people don't look hold down by German slavery, of course we all live with the past. especially those who suffered injustice. What about the German who decried the events in Nambia when they occurred, they should be punished? What about the Namibians that participated and collaborated with the Germans? ANd what did Harry do wrong? Being born to a great-grandfather who may have done something wrong. They may have just as easily purchased it legally under the Nambian constitution.
A journalist's job is called adverisal questions. "How are people responsible for something they never did, had no control over, and weren't even alive for?" By inheriting wealth "When is it long enough, or does it last forever?" The German bourgeoisie is still exploiting Namibia's resources to this day, so probably when german capital stop exploiting the working class of Africa, oh wait, capitalists will always exploit under-developed regions, so that basically means it will stop only when international communism is built and exploitation is completely gotten rid of.
A very one-sided argument. 12 against 1, they refer to the white person "as people like you" and the reporter clearly and unprofessionally says, "Is this the moment WE need" choosing a side in a debate she is supposedly moderating. She never highlights that 90% of land has been purchased and inherited through the Namibian constitution since the country has been independent. Shouldn't law be applied equally despite color? Black farmers can buy and inherit. It is very sad to see such a one-sided discussion. Not all lands were stolen, most not. Many countries give land to soldiers for service. Land is WORTHLESS until it is devolved. They were given land that weas empty, hard work makes it profitable. Remember Black have the exact same rights under the constitution since independence. Law makers can always, always, always, change the laws if votes are there. Tasking land from someone because they are productive and forcing them to 'donate' to those who do not is theft. "Our Government has nothing to do with it". It has been independent for over 70 years and they still have ZERO responsibility in the way people live. That should tell you everything you want to know. It is about personal gain and emotion, not law or fairness.
Most white people in Namibia don’t want to talk about land or racism because they are not effected at all. If yes only 0,00000000,1%. So since they only effected by what their parents did in a beneficial way they will not show up to talks like this because till today they have generation wealth pasted on.🤷🏿♀️ The interviewer was neutral she constantly corrected the native speakers to refer the white guy as namibian. She also asked them what’s your government doing about the issue to the natives. The fact that the norm 99,9% of white peoples in Namibia are rich what does that tell you if you think logically? They came as colonizers made themselves legal without an invitation. Stolen land can’t be sold and rebought in a legal manner that’s what they did. While the natives are born living in poverty because the oppressor made it that way education expensive how will the natives move out of the devils circle ? There are people 40 years ad still renting how come? The is extrem unequality.
@@kaveikokaveiko6481 Are 99.9% of white namibians "rich"? I find that pretty hard to believe, Namibian government doesn't collect data on race so we won't know Anyway, I support redistributing land but not because of racial reasons but because landlords and land "owners" are by definition exploiters, regardless of whether they got their land "legally" or not, the land belongs to those who till it. Private ownership of land, industry, etc. should not exist.
@@terrancewood9322 I don’t know if you are based in Namibia or not. But it’s not rocket science to see or get this information. Take a drive in katutura and see if you will find any people people there. Go to a rich area and try to find black people it it. Most of the farms are owned by white people that they got from their grandparents which was stolen land that they resold and documented on paper in their names. They know that this day would come. This is not hidden information just watch a few documentaries about Namibia and you will see the inequality. From the way you are typing I know you are one of the people that’s not effected and you will gaslight and try by all means to win an agreement simply because you refuse to accept the truth.
The white Farmer in the video downplayed the ownership of land, but he owns about 40,000 hectares. When the commentator asked that white Farmer, I believe his name was Harry, if he would give away some of his land he deflected. I must add white Germans whose forefathers committed genocide and STOLE land from nativde Black Namibians will NEVER EVER give back that land. Namibians must use Cooperative Economics to file lawsuits to reclaim their stolen land. You can have all the discussions you want but you will only get their attention when it involves their money and wealth. It's time to take back what the Devils stole from you!!! "If my people who are called by my name would humble themselves and Pray, seek my face and turn from their wicked ways...then will I heal the land."
No specifics at all, that's the hallmark of emotional speech. This isn't about law or fairness. This is about a one-sided argument and one not rooted in facts. Most land in Namibia was acquired lawfully under a black dominated government and black-majority written constitution. Look it up; O) Also, Farmers have the thinnest margin of profitability, they never name a place, a lot, or anything that can be tied down. They never give a number, or plan, or way that the people can be compensated to their satisfaction. It appears that most people want an open line of credit that lasts for infinite. When is a person responsible for their own destiny? How does a person who has never owned a slave stolen land from anyone, and employs hundreds of black on his land become responsible for something done by someone else's family 110 years ago? The lady says they have land and we want it. What if they gave the land back in the same state, they started in? Meaning with no work put in?
Foolish argument to say that the land should be returned in the state it was I 100+ years ago... The work that was put generated an income that allowed for further work to be done and developed achieved. *not to mention that the initial farm workers were slaves or forced laborers with no pay! You've got to be kidding me 🤯🤯🤯
Thats a lie,your ancestors whent to Africa to kill and steal,and you want to hold on to what was stolen against the will of the owners of the land which are Africans not Europeans. Its so sickning to hear you talk about color should not matter while it does in white countries,fools are extinct in Africa.
I as a romanian want my money from : Romans,Huns,Turks,Russians,Hungarians,Austrians,Germans,Poles,Ukrainians,Bulgariams,Serbians,Avars,Cumans,Pechenegs,Tatars,Mongols,Avars,Goths,and the list could go on 😂😂
If my father stole a car and I enhirit it knowingly how he got it I'm a thief too, and if I'm a halfway decent person I will give it back with no debate. Saying he enherited and didn't ask for it, is clearly heartless nonsense. I'm also dissapointed at Edith for saying the food shortage in Zimbabwe was caused by poeple getting land and not telling the truth that it was SANCTIONS that led to poverty.
Exactly. The host was making it seem like having our ancestral land taken from us is worth it for the right price figure. That land is more than just a business venture.
@@PanAfricanist213 Exactly, I just came back from Namibia and it's disgusting that in a country of only 2,5 million people 43 % live in poverty.
The thing is though pretty much all property/land is stolen if you go long enough back in history, with very few exceptions.
The argument you are making is really more-so an argument for socialism, all those who work should be the collective owners of the land.
Thieves. Do you look like Namibian
Land is base of all. Give back land
This is a global international issue . Time do not bury crimes against humanity. No amount of money will bring back the lives lost from genocide. No apology can restore a culture. Reparations from British and French and German has to step forward. This is a global international call for anwner from these invading a army of posts Jim Crow
Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Nice documentary. Infact not only did people lost land in Namibia, but the people were driven into most arid dry infertile areas of farming land. It's unfortunate that the descendants of the colonizers eventually found themselves in the middle of something they actually do not really understand.
I really do agree on the part creating opportunities for the youth, educational opportunities in Germany for example, scholarships as well as building educational institutions in the villages of affected communities, improve infrastructure, there's really so much to do.
Pay money, really apologize (it was a genocide) ... And then go away and left them alone. Culture can not give back. Look to the future.
Thank you for this information. Very very informative
Give 🌍 they land back and go farm in Europe.
All these questions are irrelevant. What’s right is right and wrong is wrong 😑
take germans their Land away in namibia it didn't work in zimbabwe. African's need the Germans' we need each other. th-cam.com/video/Sqf6DRFBnRQ/w-d-xo.html
LOL without Europe you would still be hunting with a fucking bow and arrows so choose ur words wisely. One small sanction from Europe to one of the counties in Africa and millions of Africans would fucking suffer and die from hunger so shut up
Purchasing stolen goods is morally and legally wrong. Moreover, there is genocide. That has no price ! The problem is that Germany, which must pay for its faults in the war in Europe, refuses to take its real responsibilities in Africa. Land is the superior good in African culture. It belongs to the community and constitutes its identity and source of life.💔💯✊
It has been a superior good in any society at some stage, including European tribes and nations before the age of enlightenment and industrialisation. The more a society advances, the less important individual land ownership becomes. It's still important as a source of food for the domestic market and as an export industry, but no longer on the individual or communal level of identity and culture. It would be the same in Namibia once Namibia reaches that stage of development.
Germany has already agreed to paying reparations. What more do you expect? The atrocities can not be undone. Unlike the Boers, at the very least Germany has accepted responsibility and apologised. When will you hold the Boers accountable, who have committed many atrocities in Namibia and neigbouring Angola, even bombing refugee camps? And please don't forget that one half of Germany, the former GDR has actually supported Namibia throughout it's liberation struggle. GDR has done more for Namibia than any other country in the world (Cuba and USSR being second).
At some point you have to become truely INDEPENDENT instead of waiting for handouts. Where is the self-agency and self-sufficiency when you continue to wait for payments from Europe?
@@esahm373 Don't use the word "handouts" that's a right wing reactionary term, and we aren't talking about anything in the past.
Foreign capital still exploits africa as mercilessly as they did 100 years ago.
Most african governments are indepdendent in name only
VERY EDUCATIONAL GOOD JOB 👍
The white farmer is obviously note for note the same as they were in 1904. Painfully so, he sees nothing wrong with the history of Namibia. So, Lost Causeism
THEY ARE DEVILS THAT IS MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE.. THE SEEDS OF SATAN.. THERE EXISTENCE AND ACTIONS PROOF IT
The only reason that they want the word 'Genocide' is financially motivated. It is a UN definition this small group of Namibians is advocating for.
Give Namibians their land back so they can grow. They will use that 11bn to develop themselves and their country. get out of that country, your intentions to go there were evil from scratch, leave Africa alone and stop imposing yourselves, go farm in germany.
You employ but you pay them peanut .
I am just imagining this same thing happening in Europe. I can bet you that they will kill any African if they do the same thing in Europe . The world is so biased .
Siyahi kardeşlerimize türkiyeden selamlar
cok güzel!
Eyvallah! Namibya'dan selam
I went to Namibia in December for five weeks first time on the African continent, and it was quite evidence to see that the white have all the wealth and the land where my wife family live in the village. It is on a reserve. You actually drove through a gate to go on the reserve where the locale live and you drove hundreds of kilometre throw Farmland that owned by the white pretty evidence..
Europeans in south Africa and Namibia should return the land and return back to Europe to own land
AGREE 💯
But african too keeping immigrate to west
Your frustration is understandable but that won't solve much, because the wealthy control the world no matter where they live, if they leave the country they could still exploit it by buying up property there.
Also as I am not Namibian I don't know the situation but I would probably wager to guess there are at least some whites there that are working class and poor, if they are, they deserve to stay there as working class people do not exploit .
@@yonasghebre7940 Show me one African in Europe that has stolen land from any European and still owns it.
2. Show me one African that has stolen land and passed it on to their descendants in Europe.
The laws in Namibia should be changed , they can place a huge and historical tax on the Germans and if they don't like it they can go back to Germany.
They could have done better with the selection of people to be honest.
Which other panelists would you have loved to also hear from on the show on this topic?
@@DWThe77Percent I don't know if you give the penelists a chance to prepare for the debate or if you go around randomly selecting people in the communities but a better informed and well read group would have been better. There were some that were giving good points and others were just not it man. A debate this important should have people giving valid and strong points. The world is watching. We (the Ovaherero) were not well represented, neither were the white farmer's descendants
The problem we have is that we define ourselves by the tribes that we are and dont united to fight for the same end goal. You just said you as a wambu you are also an offspring and I totally agree that your ancestors also contributed to the struggle for us to get the freedom of movement which we don’t see as blood that was shed.
If you look into this genocide talk only the Nama ad Herero people are fighting this fight alone the rest of us are not supporting because in history we were told only 2 groups were killed.
If we all united as one nation stood up and all had the same end goal just me we would have tackled the land issue in just a 1 year straight after independence.
We need to unite.✊🏿✊🏿✊🏿
His Great grandfather was a land grabber, he stole the land and sold it to a land grabber, who is the thief here?
They clearly selected people that are not well educated when it comes to the genocide metter. This whole interview has me questioning my self on
Which team she is on. She Seem more like a German ( kaavar)
it does not make much sense that the descendants of both perpetrators and victims have to be "stuck" in the same situation: just because the culprits are no longer here doesn't mean that the debt is deleted: it falls on the heirs. Why does the white should enjoy 40K hectares of land just because he was born somewhere? no man..we need to revisit that and re-split equally. Also, is the Germans were truly sorry, they would have come back and built the country. FOR FREE!! roads, schools, hospitals, offices, houses, flats, buildings! everything for free!that's how you show you are truly sorry and you want to repair.Don't send a check when we don't even know if these people will receive a dime.
I'm not an expert on Namibia but it doesn't take a huge amount of research to see that is exactly what the Germans did.
From corruption to housing, roads and quality of life. Namibia is head and shoulders above their neighbours.
Are you saying that the Namibian government, state and society is not going to be able to make good use of that money? Germany is no longer a Colonial power, the repraration payments are in acknowledgement of PAST atrocities. Why would you demand neo-colonial interference, when the Namibians have fought so hard for INDEPENDENCE (= not depending on a colonial or foreign power)?
Namibia is a sovereign country with a sovereign government. If they fail to make good use of the money, than that's outside of the area of responsibility of the German government.
@@esahm373
"Namibia is a sovereign country with a sovereign government. If they fail to make good use of the money, than that's outside of the area of responsibility of the German government."
Haha, no it isn't, no poor country can really be sovereign because of the way the global market works, those in poor capitalist countries governments will sell-out to foreign financiers for profit, africa is independent in name only.
@@terrancewood9322 Nobody forces you to be capitalist in today's world, this is an example of your geopolitical ignorance. Secondly, if you want to argue that you are logically victims of colonialism, we must also observe the logical fact that Namibians are also beneficiaries whether directly or indirectly. Nobody owes Namibians money.
Thanks to DW for facilitating the discussion. I neither agree with the settler, who claims that the farms were fairly and legally acquired under colonial and apartheid "law" (what an insult to the Indigenous who suffered under these criminal regimes), nor do I agree with the uneducated, short-sighted delusions of some of the other participants, for example the lady claiming that the current government had "nothing to do" with the current inequality. We can all agree that the past has been atrocious, yet look at the Jewish who built a highly self-reliant nation after surviving the Holocaust (no matter what you politically think of that state, it's highly productive, developed and self-reliant).
But how can you compare a people that live in first world countries to a people that live in a 3rd world country that has only been independent for 32 years? After the Germans left the white racist South African government took over and they did the same thing the Germans did, they took land from Namibians. We are a predominantly agricultural country and having land is a major advantage. The Herero people are especially good at livestock farming. Imagine how many generations were wiped out that would have helped the nation economically. Over 80% Ovaherero were killed, 80%! We live in an African country where the land is predominantly white owned. White men from Europe.
@@munagarcia5711 Yes Sir, I'm aware of all the colonial and apartheid atrocities. I'm of Black South African extraction and my family was persecuted by the racists.
Yet, we have no one to blame with our former liberation movements having been in power for the last three decades. It seems they messed up and did not manage to pursue the progresses that were promised to us. SWAPO still makes business with the same criminal diamond and commodities cartels that benefitted during apartheid, selling out precious Namibian natural resources.
Also keep in mind that most of Namibia is not arable land anyway. So there is not enough land to distribute anyway. You want to redistribute rare highly productivity commercial farm land owned by descendants of settlers to people using the same land for low productivity traditional subsistence farming? Just looking at it pragmatically without ideology: how is that going to advance Namibia's agricultural sector?
I'm for redistribution, but only if it's ensured that the persons receiving commercial farm land have the training that enables them to run a successful commercial operation. I would say that we should step-by-step (but continually and consistently) increase Black ownership and management of farms, but not abruptly and without a longterm strategy in place, just to win populist ideological points.
Also, a modern economy can not depend on land ownership as the only source of income. That idea itself is flawed. As if agriculture is the only sector accessible to Namibians. Other business sectors, such as eco-tourism, the IT-industry, solar and sustainable energy need to be explored and increased. Refinement of minerals and natural resources must be fully Namibian owned, so that the benefits don't land in foreign pockets of the same criminal cartels that benefitted from apartheid.
@esähM I completely agree with you on the government having to have done a better job after getting independence, it's a point I forgot to highlight in my comment. Unfortunately like many African countries the people that took control were greedy and they put themselves and their relatives in positions of power and wealth and they directly gain advantages from some laws that were set by our colonialists.
On the point about the land not being used to its full potential by locals... I have seen a major shift from just livestock and small scale farming to a more hybrid farming that involves planting crops and beef production on a commercial scale from black Namibian farmers. Because they have realised the point you made and are adopting a more commercial farming style. Personally my family does it, crop farming and ox production that we sell for meat production. Like many black farmers we unfortunately do not have the financial ability to invest in large scale crop production as much as we would like to. Commercial farming is a new thing to black farmers because we are only able to buy farms now sir/ma'am. While our white counterparts have had their farms for generations. Do you think if we had land for that long we would still farm traditionally? No. We would have made the transition to commercial farming long ago.
Yes an economy cannot only survive on agriculture, ours doesn't, fishing, mining, tourism are some of the other major contributors to our economy. But like in South Africa, most of these industries are controlled by whites. The law protects them just like in your country, it's harder for black people to get loans big enough to fund ventures that can compete against these companies that were set up decades and decades ago, just like in your country. The system has been set up to keep us at the level we are. Trust me we want to move into other industries, but these industries are controlled by whites and corrupt politicians
@@esahm373 I completely agree with you on the government having to have done a better job after getting independence, it's a point I forgot to highlight in my comment. Unfortunately like many African countries the people that took control were greedy and they put themselves and their relatives in positions of power and wealth and they directly gain advantages from some laws that were set by our colonialists.
On the point about the land not being used to its full potential by locals... I have seen a major shift from just livestock and small scale farming to a more hybrid farming that involves planting crops and beef production on a commercial scale from black Namibian farmers. Because they have realised the point you made and are adopting a more commercial farming style. Personally my family does it, crop farming and ox production that we sell for meat production. Like many black farmers we unfortunately do not have the financial ability to invest in large scale crop production as much as we would like to. Commercial farming is a new thing to black farmers because we are only able to buy farms now sir/ma'am. While our white counterparts have had their farms for generations. Do you think if we had land for that long we would still farm traditionally? No. We would have made the transition to commercial farming long ago.
Yes an economy cannot only survive on agriculture, ours doesn't, fishing, mining, tourism are some of the other major contributors to our economy. But like in South Africa, most of these industries are controlled by whites. The law protects them just like in your country, it's harder for black people to get loans big enough to fund ventures that can compete against these companies that were set up decades and decades ago, just like in your country. The system has been set up to keep us at the level we are. Trust me we want to move into other industries, but these industries are controlled by whites and corrupt politicians
Israel build it's wealth from western imperialism funding it and arming it (it's an outpost of western imperialism in the middle east) and also from the exploitation of the palestinian people.
There's the lie and there's the Truth
We have became so good, let's Afrika kick Germany out
Africa
As a German, I’m so sorry for what my ancestors did to the people of Namibia. Unfortunately our politicians are still a bunch of clowns who never take accountability. Now they’re sending millions of euros to Israel’s army and denying there’s a genocide happening in Gaza. Germany seems to be very committed to always being on the wrong side of history.
Most of the people in this video wouldn’t have even a clue what to do with land, they wouldn’t develop it or grow anything. This has happened in other African countries and failed farmers which leads to starvation which leads to more free aid and it never ends!
Aid has never been given for "free", the "aid" you are talking about is western imperialist powers (and chinese imperialism more recently), giving predatory "loans" on which they can make poor countries indebted to them and then use those debts to control those countries economically and politically.
Much of Africa is independent in name only.
"Most of the people in this video wouldn’t have even a clue what to do with land, they wouldn’t develop it or grow anything"
Sounds like wealth should be redistributed towards education so that they can learn eh? Glad you support land reform.
Soft Propaganda
Why do you say so? Tell us more.
The journalist chooses a side and then tries to start a race-based argument every chance she gets..."So how do you feel that this person said you stole your land and you should give it back?" "Why don't you donate your money to someone else?" The German government formed in 1949 has never committed Genocide against Namibia. How are people responsible for something they never did, had no control over, and weren't even alive for? And it has to be an infinite line of credit responsible for any hardship a Black Nambian faces? When is it long enough, or does it last forever? This crowd of people don't look hold down by German slavery, of course we all live with the past. especially those who suffered injustice. What about the German who decried the events in Nambia when they occurred, they should be punished? What about the Namibians that participated and collaborated with the Germans? ANd what did Harry do wrong? Being born to a great-grandfather who may have done something wrong. They may have just as easily purchased it legally under the Nambian constitution.
A journalist's job is called adverisal questions.
"How are people responsible for something they never did, had no control over, and weren't even alive for?"
By inheriting wealth
"When is it long enough, or does it last forever?"
The German bourgeoisie is still exploiting Namibia's resources to this day, so probably when german capital stop exploiting the working class of Africa, oh wait, capitalists will always exploit under-developed regions, so that basically means it will stop only when international communism is built and exploitation is completely gotten rid of.
The interviewer is poorly researched!
A very one-sided argument. 12 against 1, they refer to the white person "as people like you" and the reporter clearly and unprofessionally says, "Is this the moment WE need" choosing a side in a debate she is supposedly moderating. She never highlights that 90% of land has been purchased and inherited through the Namibian constitution since the country has been independent. Shouldn't law be applied equally despite color? Black farmers can buy and inherit. It is very sad to see such a one-sided discussion. Not all lands were stolen, most not. Many countries give land to soldiers for service. Land is WORTHLESS until it is devolved. They were given land that weas empty, hard work makes it profitable. Remember Black have the exact same rights under the constitution since independence. Law makers can always, always, always, change the laws if votes are there. Tasking land from someone because they are productive and forcing them to 'donate' to those who do not is theft. "Our Government has nothing to do with it". It has been independent for over 70 years and they still have ZERO responsibility in the way people live. That should tell you everything you want to know. It is about personal gain and emotion, not law or fairness.
Most white people in Namibia don’t want to talk about land or racism because they are not effected at all. If yes only 0,00000000,1%.
So since they only effected by what their parents did in a beneficial way they will not show up to talks like this because till today they have generation wealth pasted on.🤷🏿♀️
The interviewer was neutral she constantly corrected the native speakers to refer the white guy as namibian.
She also asked them what’s your government doing about the issue to the natives.
The fact that the norm 99,9% of white peoples in Namibia are rich what does that tell you if you think logically?
They came as colonizers made themselves legal without an invitation.
Stolen land can’t be sold and rebought in a legal manner that’s what they did.
While the natives are born living in poverty because the oppressor made it that way education expensive how will the natives move out of the devils circle ?
There are people 40 years ad still renting how come?
The is extrem unequality.
@@kaveikokaveiko6481 Are 99.9% of white namibians "rich"?
I find that pretty hard to believe, Namibian government doesn't collect data on race so we won't know
Anyway, I support redistributing land but not because of racial reasons but because landlords and land "owners" are by definition exploiters, regardless of whether they got their land "legally" or not, the land belongs to those who till it.
Private ownership of land, industry, etc. should not exist.
@@terrancewood9322 I don’t know if you are based in Namibia or not.
But it’s not rocket science to see or get this information.
Take a drive in katutura and see if you will find any people people there.
Go to a rich area and try to find black people it it.
Most of the farms are owned by white people that they got from their grandparents which was stolen land that they resold and documented on paper in their names.
They know that this day would come.
This is not hidden information just watch a few documentaries about Namibia and you will see the inequality.
From the way you are typing I know you are one of the people that’s not effected and you will gaslight and try by all means to win an agreement simply because you refuse to accept the truth.
The white Farmer in the video downplayed the ownership of land, but he owns about 40,000 hectares. When the commentator asked that white Farmer, I believe his name was Harry, if he would give away some of his land he deflected. I must add white Germans whose forefathers committed genocide and STOLE land from nativde Black Namibians will NEVER EVER give back that land. Namibians must use Cooperative Economics to file lawsuits to reclaim their stolen land. You can have all the discussions you want but you will only get their attention when it involves their money and wealth. It's time to take back what the Devils stole from you!!! "If my people who are called by my name would humble themselves and Pray, seek my face and turn from their wicked ways...then will I heal the land."
No specifics at all, that's the hallmark of emotional speech. This isn't about law or fairness. This is about a one-sided argument and one not rooted in facts. Most land in Namibia was acquired lawfully under a black dominated government and black-majority written constitution. Look it up; O) Also, Farmers have the thinnest margin of profitability, they never name a place, a lot, or anything that can be tied down. They never give a number, or plan, or way that the people can be compensated to their satisfaction. It appears that most people want an open line of credit that lasts for infinite. When is a person responsible for their own destiny? How does a person who has never owned a slave stolen land from anyone, and employs hundreds of black on his land become responsible for something done by someone else's family 110 years ago? The lady says they have land and we want it. What if they gave the land back in the same state, they started in? Meaning with no work put in?
Foolish argument to say that the land should be returned in the state it was I 100+ years ago... The work that was put generated an income that allowed for further work to be done and developed achieved.
*not to mention that the initial farm workers were slaves or forced laborers with no pay! You've got to be kidding me 🤯🤯🤯
The land belongs to the people that actually work the land, landlords are parasites.
Thats a lie,your ancestors whent to Africa to kill and steal,and you want to hold on to what was stolen against the will of the owners of the land which are Africans not Europeans.
Its so sickning to hear you talk about color should not matter while it does in white countries,fools are extinct in Africa.
Germany belongs to black people
I as a romanian want my money from : Romans,Huns,Turks,Russians,Hungarians,Austrians,Germans,Poles,Ukrainians,Bulgariams,Serbians,Avars,Cumans,Pechenegs,Tatars,Mongols,Avars,Goths,and the list could go on 😂😂