This is Europe's LATEST High Speed Train - Talgo AVRIL
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- Hola a todos!
The new @talgoSpain AVRIL is finally here after years of development and testing. RENFE finally has a flagship train to go out and conquer Europe. But is this train any good?
Let's find out!
Enjoy, and don't forget to like/leave a comment to help the channel :-)
- TRIP INFORMATION -
Date: MAY 21ST 2024
Railway company: @talgoSpain @renfe
Route : Madrid-Chamartin to Gijón
Time : 3h36
Price : 71,80€
LINK FOR MY BOOK ABOUT NIGHT TRAINS!
- BOOK IN 🇫🇷 : www.fnac.com/a16082670/THIBAU...
- BOOK IN 🇩🇪 : www.dorlingkindersley.de/buch...
LINK TO THE NEW CHANNEL : Minitrak by Simply Railway / @minitrakbysimplyrailw...
- PATREON PAGE : / simply_railway
- INSTAGRAM - / simply_railway
- X (TWITTER) - / simply_railway
- SIMPLY RAILWAY PRODUCTS : teespring.com/stores/simply-r...
Massive thanks to my following Patreon for their help :
Claudio Bickel ; Martin Haynes ; D Austin Horowitz ; Thomas Alfred Roell ; Captain Ginyu ; Andreas Konrad ; Christopher Style ; Dick DeBartolo ; Nicholas Torres ; Nick Reed ; Philippe Branco ; Tom Van Baren ; Ian Earle ; Robin Roemisch ; Michael Romero ; Fin Ross Russell ; Frederic R Merchant ; RAH ; Robyn Jackson ; William George ; John Michael Dornoff ; Trevor Key ; Fabricio ; Linda Vainomae-Hoffmann ; Jeffrey Williams ; Shane Edmonds ; Dave Ferrell ; Bea Dan ; clearingrubble ; Charlie Myers ; Bill ; jpjh ; David Bonet ; Eric Schmidt ; John S Baldyga ; Will Ho ; Sam Couch ; Dennis Field ; Raging_lemons ; Daniel De Marta ; Shawn Morse ; Benny Wong ; Jason Rabinowitz ; Szeming Lau ; Peter ; Dining Car ; Robert Badgett ; Paul Hurst ; Leonard McCants ; Garl Boyd Latham ; TravelBlogger.com ; Jaymar7456 ; Nick Russo ; RJ B ; Parigino 48 ; Magikarp ; James O'Donnell ; Danny Anderson ; Marc van der Lee ; Pierre Bourry ; Mark Schutter ; Jennifer M Zukawski ; Pierre Chevalier ; Caracole ; Tommy Penner ; ursus arctos ; Joe Grubbs ; Matthew Edwards ; Peter Harrison ; Arthur Sievers ; Geogast ; Mind K ; Warren Avis ; Jun Plas ; Per Ove Persson ; Robert Mersereau ; Manuel Sauleda ; Christian Emde ; Nicole ; Bart Nadeau ; Michèle ; Rick ; Mary Ann Bernard ; Surina Brewer ; Patrick J Knapp Jr ; Tom Barton ; George Dover ; Cornelis Kater ; Louis P Sauve ; Kraisorn Sapp ; Lois Johnson ; Raymond Dubois ; Stephen Repetski ; Adam Wickens & Hazel Smith ; David Novak ; Dirk Schultz ; Peter Kelly ; Roy. Parker ; William E Gray ; Tom Graham ; Matias ; The Foxyb ; Killergen ; Fernão Gondin ; Dennis Mabrey ; Mr Maurice ; Ben Owen ;
Michael S Wilhelm ; David Hoyt ; Terry Patterson ; Spencer Brownlee ; m kirby ; Stephane Thienel ; Virginie ; Manuel Guedes-Vieira ; Mats ; Allan Waldron ; Michael Joost ; Edwin Coates ; Hugh Johnson ; Gregoire P ; Severin Durand ; Jay Newman ; Calvin Mangubat ; Orion ; MacLean ; Fred M ; Andrew Oliva ; Myles Freborg ; Maxime Hurtrel ; Sol Miranda Weiner ; Dr Buckton ; Richard Rieben ;
BenG ; Brendan D ; Bradley Seeman ; Nikola M ; Patrick G ; Chris Souka ; Lord Philip Zornes ; Vinnie ;
Chris Colles ; Andrew McGovern ; Szymon ; 160to4 ; Quentin Cvz ; András Tiringer ; Larry Garlock ; Gabriel
00:00 : Intro
00:35 : Madrid-Chamartin
02:00 : Top competition
02:22 : The Talgo AVRIL
04:26 : Boarding
04:54 : Seat Check
06:01 : Depart / trip info
06:46 : Entertainement system
07:30 : Out of Madrid! Rapido!
08:10 : Breakfast service
08:37 : Issues
09:40 : Valladolid
10:11 : High speed carpet
10:43 : Shake da laptop
10:52 : Another Avril
11:40 : Mid Roll Ads
12:28 : Walkthrough
16:00 : Toilets Time
16:27 : Cambiador
17:27 : Classic line
17:45 : New line through the Cantabrian mountains
19:00 : Faulty... once again
19:26 : Conclusion
20:28 : Outro
19:19 the train that you see from the windows and also in Gijon are narrow gauge (1000mm). The north of Spain truly is a blend of gauges, sadly these lines do not experience much investment so they are bad (although scenic) regional trains and barely good enough commuter trains.
The green train at Oviedo is a tourist luxury service, Transcantabrico or Costa Verde Express
Used the Euskotren & FEVE network in Northern Spain. Travelling from Bilbao to Santander our train stopped at a station & the driver told us we were going no further as he had to take the train back to Bilbao as the train from Santander had been cancelled. We had to get on a minibus that appeared from nowhere, calling at every station until we arrived at a station in the Santander commuter network where we were told to get on another train to complete our journey. It was quite an adventure...
@@markellis6413 for you it's an adventure. For us who need to use those trains, it's a nightmare. Spain only invests in high speed (and not even properly as this video proved). It's a mess.
Chamartin station has recently started its renovation. it will be in the works for at least a decade
I just noticed when I arrived there, I guess the entire situation is going to be much better. Do you know I'd Atocha will change a lot as well due to the construction works?
@@Trainviking Not as much, the works at Chamartín are quite big, the builing is getting emptied out and rebuilt, only the structure remains. The building is also getting expanded towards the north, so there's extra space for passengers. At 0:55 the white temporary wall on the left closes off the part of the builing on top of tracks 1 to 9, and also at the back at 1:20 is the other temporary wall that blocks the are on top tracks 20 and 21
On the other hand, Atocha is getting 4 new underground platforms for high-speed through trains towards Chamartin and HSL North, and there are also currently restoration works on the canopy in historic part of the station plus changes to the garden in the main façade so it can work as the main entrance to the station
@@Trainviking Yes, like the changes in chamartin are going to be a lot more drastic than the ones in atocha, but in atocha there is opening in a couple of years a new underground station so the trains from the north could go to the south and viceversa, and they prospective of madrid is a big station with two terminals, one atocha and the other chamartin connected by the new through station
Y cuando se inaugure ya estará 10 años desactualizada jajajaja
You may love or hate Talgo, but with its gauge-changing capability it's vital for Spain, though this comes at the expense of ride quality (pairs of single wheels don't do their job the same way as the bogies - and that's also why they must be hauled by locos instead of distributed power, which is probably also incompatible with single wheels). Your table was probably (even) more shaky because the seat in front of you looked unoccupied: some weight on it would stabilize it a little. What I don't understand are the Ryanairish seats in the 1st class (or whatever they call it). By the way, is this Talgo also tilting like the previous versions?
Regarding the tilting, no the S-106 wide body coaches don't tilt. The ones that will tilt are the S-107 based on Talgo VII coaches.
@@isgota I assume the S-107s will be deployed on routes with significant stretches of curvy classic track where tilt can have some time benefit, while still being able to keep up with the S-106s on the HS trunk lines.
WIth a conventional bogie/truck attachment point in the centre of its wheelbase, when one wheel drops into a short 1mm depression on the railhead the car body only drops half that as the truck pivots vertically on its other axle. With Talgo tech the car body experiences the full extent of the irregularity. Perhaps one day they'll smooth it out with active suspension. The video didn't mention the 100% level floor throughout the passenger accommodation, with level boarding at every public door from 760mm platforms, standard on Spanish HS lines. This is also enabled by Talgo tech which not only avoids bogies (except end cars and power heads), but uses independently suspended wheels on little stub axles rather than conventional wheelsets linked by axles. The floor of the inter-car passageway actually passes between the tops of the wheel discs. Talgo claims they can also build this train for level boarding at 550mm platforms, again with continuous low floor throughout. Alstom are also sticking with end power car configuration, after their AGV didn't appeal to SNCF. The manufacturer now claims centralisation of the lightweight modern traction equipment is substantially cheaper than distributed throughout the train. It is lighter overall, far less complex, easier to maintain and thus more reliable, they say. Other companies like Stadler have concentrated traction equipment into specific areas on a small number of cars, in some of their designs mostly in the pursuit of continuous low floors along as much of the train as possible.
Considering that, except the fully high speed lines, all remaining railways in Spain are in shambles and train services are practically non-existent, it just doesn't make sense that they decided to build the Northern high speed lines in Iberian gauge... (They were literally built from scratch). It sounds more like they did so to prevent French or Italian competition, since they won't likely invest in Talgo trains (which suck) just to run less profitable services to the North
Avant units (4 car built by CAF) are emus with no power cars but also guage change eg at Burgos when on the Madrid to San Sebastian line.
You get what you pay for. Talgo offered these trains with maintenance 10 million euros cheaper than the rest of the manufacturers. That's really a lot of money for a single train. Obviously going so cheap has consecuences in the final product.
me dan miedo los boogies y la pobre cabina de conducción
@@cellperfecto406 Un conocido vió uno de los boogies doblándose... con eso te lo digo todo.
@@cellperfecto406 este tren no lleva bogies lleva rodales independientes
The "low bid" contracts always seem to cost more in the long run
The major Talgo advantage is: Short 12m body allowing 3.2m wide body (China wide standard) - allow 3+2 in 2nd class & 2+2 in 1st Class - same as China
And all Talgo trains have natural tilting as standard, no pneumatic / electronic sensors / actuation! Just let it tlit!
Low cost, totally reliable tliting!
Great for curvy tracks, like Bordeaux - Nantes - Rennes (Which LeTrain of France also buys this train type!)
First hand experience from yesterday evening: I used the Avril Avlo service from Zaragoza to Madrid. Uneventful and pleasant trip. Noise and shaking similar to that of the S130s, nothing extraordinary or too bad. Seats are a bit narrow and hard, they are the same model installed on other Avlo models. They are perfectly ok for a low-cost service under 2 hours. The interior is nice and the train is roomy and well distributed. Overall, a modern high capacity , high speed train which is ideal for low cost services and trips under 3 hours (the majority in Spain). Honestly, I don’t understand why so much drama around this train. All Avrils will end up as Avlos eventually, when the new S-107 series (300 kmhr, gauge-changing narrow cabin "normal" Talgos) are delivered. Spanish Northwestern corridors and services into Portugal are going to need gauge-changing HSTs for several decades.
Im sitting in the train wating to LITERALLY CRY reading this.... this are the absolute WORST seats Ive ever placed my bottoms at... I am sweating with anxiety.. the pain is 100% unbearable
9:08 Smooth, quiet, comfortable, and an all together delightful experience.
Way better than a plane or a car.
There's an urban project that has recently been aprooved, and it will renovate Chamartín station and change completely the surrounding areas. For those who don't know about it, you can find some videos about "Madrid nuevo norte" that explain the project.
Something to be taken into account is this is not a "flagship" train (the Velaros on the Madrid-Barcelona line are) but a "workhorse" train, a higher capacity, faster, tri-tension, gauge-changing substitute of the Alvias that are the backbone of Spain's long distance rail services. Avrils are a swiss knife for the northwestern corridors that need fast, gauge-chaging trains. This a high speed train with basic comfort features, not a luxury train.
So like ICE 4 in Germany (because it's Spain it's with 300 km/h speed, but everything else fits).
@@bojstojsa7574 Yes, and the Avrils are quite cheap also compared to Alstom or Siemens HSTs. Also much lighter and consume less power, but the price you pay is they are bit shaky.
@@bojstojsa7574 And the service is not fine-tuned yet, more time gains will come during next.months. Overall, very good news for rail services in Spain, these trains were highly needed, despite they are far from being perfect.
I've used to go to Barcelona from Madrid every week and Velaros were by far my least favourite train. Noisy, unergonomic seats and cafeteria coach felt like a rollercoaster.
@@km9284 You must be a train gourmet then, I'm a much simpler man.
All the internal configuration depends on the operator, so LeTrain will configure it however it wants, I suppose it will look for its optimal layout for its market. Furthermore, it will not use the variable gauge version, so it will surely be very different in terms of suspension elements, etc. As for the ride quality, it is famous in the Talgos, but that train is the first version of the new evolution of the Avril cars. So I guess they will improve.
Renfe on the high speed lines to the north is desperate to be able to complete the demand. So it is being searched *and this is the ONLY one that can do it given the specialty of changing gauge. There are no other builders in the world capable of fulfilling that contract, not even CAF.
In any case, something that must be mentioned, the concept of the Talgo is that they are very light and they are really low cars, so any imperfection on the tracks may be more noticeable. The Avril is positioned as the most efficient high-speed train in the world. (If I remember correctly, it weighs less than 80-100 tons than a single floor TGV, that's a lot).
ps: I forgot to mention, there is another train/operator with a 3+2 configuration in its second class, the Shinkansen, and for many many years. And for the same reason, capacity is sought, and this is achieved by making wider cars.
The video fails to acknowledge the fact that these trains are incredibly lightweight and exceptionally energy-efficient.
@@thomasmeyer1408 They always forget xD. But they really like that they don't have steps when entering, etc. By the way, the most accessible high-speed train on the eu market.
Chinese HSR (which is heavily « inspired » by the Japanese Shinkansen also has 3+2 layout. So does Taiwan, which simply uses Shinkansen trainsets.
I’d like to know if these energy efficiency stats come from actually using less energy or since they can cram more people in them with the 3+2 seating and claim a greater energy efficiency per head stat. Just a little wary.
@@Konkacha No it's an advantage of the Talgo technology. The older Talgo 350 (Renfe S-102/112) was already the most energy-efficient HS train in the world, but it has no extra seating.
Merci pour toutes les vidéos qui sortent le jour même de l’inauguration ! 🫶
Madrid-Chamartín station has just started an incredibly astonishing full renovation, and it will be the center hub of the Madrid Nuevo Norte plan, go check both plans out! Quite interesting plans for the north of my city ahead.
OMG THANKS FOR PUBLISHING THIS .
You can see Costa Verde Express carriages at 19:18, a luxury touristic train in narrow gauge that goes throughout the northern coast of Spain
Second day of operation to Asturias: trains full to the brim and no delays. As expected, these trains will be a huge commercial success.
Ya era hora, Por fin los ponen en marcha. Es verdad estos trenes se idearon principalmente para transportar a mucha gente en distancias largas a alta velocidad pero para confort no, esos trenes serian mejores para Avlo ya que no ofrece ese confort que se esperaría uno al ser AVE, un día sin dudarlo iré a probarlos.
Misma opinión, se nota que Renfe no tiene consideración con los usuarios, por los asientos "tipo autocar", y le va a pasar la cuenta (Iryo va a ganar más usuarios en primera clase). Ojalá que en una futura renovación de interiores, Renfe corrija el acolchado de los asientos de primera clase. Saludos cordiales
@@PilotoAlfa22 no creo, Iryo no tiene trenes de rodadura desplazable.
@@PilotoAlfa22 a mí los asientos de Iryo tampoco me gustan, son duros y tiesos. Prefiero los del Ave 103, 112 o incluso los de Ouigo
May be bad to you but it is years ahead of what we have in the USA!
I think the Talgo Avril that changes gauge is the one without the 'primary' suspension at the wheels (i.e. only has the bagged spring at the shared post between cars - a bit like a TGV). The older standard gauge-only highspeed Talgos have a primary suspension of 4 springs around the wheelset and are very smooth in comparison. It is possible that the Paris-Madrid trains could be standard-gauge only in the future when the LAV to Irun/Hendaye (Basque-Y) is completed. My favourite night train was the old Elipsos service between Paris and Madrid and they used very old Talgo 6 cars that were quite noisy and changed gauge at Hendaye.
Chamartín is a construction site right now, but you already knew it before going.
Yes, they are going to build a big fucking station and huge park with the beach of the tracks buried underground. It will be impressive when they finish.
@@kaekae4010 It won't. By the time they finish it, it would be outdated by 15 years as all other Spanish infrastructure projects.
@@pastvz2781 But have you seen what the project is like? xDD
@@pastvz2781 Which are these other projects? Thanks.
You really posted this very fast! Thanks for the effort, good job on the review!
J'attendais cette vidéo avec impatience. Merci
The impression i got of this train is that if they changed the seats out for more plush ones and made comfort class have 3 seats per row instead of 4, it could have a much better riding experience. And who knows, maybe the extra weight from a more plush seat would help make the table less shaky
No doubt, one of the best and elegant trains in Europe 😍
It was time.Spain's trains are exellent!
Thank you for the video; your videos are so detailed in comparison to other rail vlogs!!!
No other vendor makes 300kphr gauge-switching trains. It's Talgo or nothing for the northwestern corridors. So no, Ouigo TVGs are not "top competition" as they can't change gauge, something that is going to be needed for many years in several Spanish lines or if you want to run services into Portugal.
CAF offers also gauge switching systems. Moreover Siemens has one pending tests that Adif and Spains Government do not approve (wonder why…). So then no, Talgo is not the only option. These sets were bought due to its price, almost 15mill cheaper, but that’s how renfe works, cheap above quality. It would have been great to see some Velaros or even Oaris from CAF speeding through these lines
@@antoniolongas5456 CAF doesn't have a 300kmhr gauge-changing train. The Oaris is just a fancy prototype. In any case, Alstom doesn't have anything like this, therefore Ouigo can not be "top competion" (as labelled in the video) in most Spanish lines.
@@user-hq6hb2xv4n my reply wasn’t labeling ouigo or alstom. Regarding CAF, it is not just a fancy prototype. It is an actual train on sale. You are a clear Talgo fan, fair enough. But that doesn’t mean Talgo is great. They actually did a decent job with the 102 and 112. But seriously this is a tremendous failure. Do not care it wasn’t supposed to be a flagship train but just a workhorse… however, things can be done differently right? Anyways, good to have an increment in offer to some points of Spain
@@antoniolongas5456 Sorry but the CAF Oaris prototype (Renfe S-105) seems to have been sold to ADIF as track testing train and the only one sold to date it's a downpowered one (250 km/h max) in Norway.
@@isgota did i say anything different? It is just a MODEL CURRENTLY ON SALE, and actually the oaris presented to Renfe was a modified one based on that exact model.
Screens on seats strike me as a huge waste of money. Screen on planes makes sense because you very often don't have an internet connection and your luggage is very limited (so it is convenient that you don't need to bring your tablet/laptop if you want a big screen). But on trains, stable WiFi with some cached content is the way to go. Mobiles work most of the time and you can easily put your tablet in the luggage, no one is weighting/measuring it.
On the Madrid - Galicia line it is quite known that Internet doesn't work on phones neither WiFi for a long time because the train crosses so many tunnels and goes through very isolated areas
@@jorgyjojo3581 Your operators aren't covering the major railway lines of the country? Here in Italy all the high speed lines are already done.
Wonder if Starlink can work onboard high-speed trains...
Sorry: the first class is in fact one bad 2nd and you paid 71eu? It is a scam!
Uncomfortable seats, displays everywhere, vibrations beyond the limit etc., this train is truly a mediocre product.
the train and the plane are 2 different things....very bad.
Great trip report
One thing th tsome folks haven't comented on is the track. Track quality can affect ride quality. I appreciate that Talgo's have a bad reputation for ride quality, though my few expereinces (DB 'Nachtzug') were comfortable enough. The seat-back info/entertainment screen strikes me as a 'take it or leave it' scenario. The less charitable might compare (unfairly) with British-built Hitachi class 800 series seats - hard as 'ironing-boards'! I like the look of these new Avril train sets. They may need refinement over time, but methinks they're here for the 'long haul' (no pun fully intended!!).
You're right; those seats did remind me of the Hitachi seats, but at least these Talgo seats still have space between each passenger (the Hitachi seats are so cramped, legs awkwardly touching 😅). I'm shocked that even with such new tracks, the shaking looked BAD.
These seats are bad, but the Hitachi seats are even worse in my opinion. Not only are they more cramped, the back of the seat is completely vertical too. I travelled from London to Bristol, I was tired and tried to take a nap as I usually do on trains, but it was absolutely impossible to find a relaxing posture.
Interesting ride, thanks for sharing
Merci! A great video, very informative. Talgo technology has proved to be the only answer for high speed trains to the gauge diversity in the Iberian peninsula so despite its other shortcomings it will be a great success there. It will supposedly also be commercially competitive and a smoother ride on European single gauge track. So basically it will prove a great success for Avril and Renfe.
What a fantastic and comfortable train!! Beautiful!!!
It still knocks the UK out of the ring, yes I see the flaws and they are not good, but the speed and the price we can scarcely dream of
Looks decent to me, the space between seats is awesome, wish it was like this on a plane:)
Greetings from Czech rep, country with 0 high speed rails, oh well :) Yet seems Talgo will be very soon in Czech hands, so fingers crossed things will start moving here too
🎉🎉Fantastic🎉🎉
1:05 Madrid Chamartín is going thougth some works now to be expanded and have a nicer terminal you see it in the worst state!!! Hophully if you come back is gona look diferent (:.
I do think the Avril will be good adition to Renfe fleet as it will provide more seats for congested routes and recolated other roling stock on other routes. However as you point out the Avril is not free from Trouble the seats are like that because when ordered the directors of Renfe at the time went cheep and now where paying the price for their poor destions. I do hope the seats does get enougth critics so Renfe directors can relize their mistake (hophully not to late). Idk if the S106 migth be a bit bumpier than S130 as it uses a diferent suspension but oh well.
As for why Renfe decided to have 3 +2 seting its simple because of France verry expensive track fees so to have similar capacity SNCF TGV Duplex the S106 and they can take more advatage of the prices they pay that why the S106 have 3+2. I do hope the S107 (With Ex TrenHotel Talgo VII sets) will be much better while having the same powercar as the S106 is a totally diferent train think it as TGV POS but in Spain.
Congrats on your video (:
Whow your so fast by uploading the video. Well I won't be able to edit on the short term haha
Great video.
20:00 gains 12 min vs s120/130 cause tracks north of León are not 100% functioning yet. Most of them are limited to 200km/h and some parts are yet under construction.
These tunnels save about 1h from León to Pola de lena in Asturias.
I’ll take it one day, great video !
Dearie me I thought it was Friday already thibault, 😊 great post don’t think I’d like all that shaking though for those who get travel sickness it’d be a nightmare
Bellevideohenri😊😊
Lovely trip. I like that the rest of the people in the carriage seemed nice and quiet
Merci Thibault pour ce « trip-report » au plus près de l’actualité!!! Bravo également pour le montage rapide de la vidéo!!! 😮
Lors de mon Erasmus en 2004, j’ai fait un trajet Madrid-Alicante en Talgo via la ligne classique (on était loin de parler de LGV a l’époque): une locomotive 252 et des voitures Talgo IV… et même une fourgon porte-autos entre la 252 et les voitures Talgo (une autre époque!). Bref… déjà à l’époque à 200km/h le confort m’avait semblé… hyper-inconfortable, impossible de dormir la tête contre la vitre!!! 😢
It was a big challenge for Alstom to make the double deck TGVs. SCNF wanted extra capacitry and got it via Duplex. Since the bogies between cars have 2 axles, Alstom has a bit more flexibility on weight of each car. But for Talgo, with single axle between cars, it can't go "Duplex" as it would be too heavy on the bogie, so they widened it to allow 3+2 to please accountants who care only about how many tickers sold and not interested in whether passengers like it or now. When you have a monopoly on a route that requires gauge changing, you can afford to make coach seating bad since you won't lose passengers to a competitor.
As a taller than average person, OuiGo Duplex TGVs feel claustrophobic
Great breakfast in 1st class - large portion and best placement - better than the best European short haul / medium haul business class!
Many years ago, when the line was inaugurated to Tarragona, which is not BCN, I got into a Velaro almost newly released, I trembled as if I was dancing salsa, over time they became my favorite AVE train, I understand that a train can have small details to solve at the beginning, what if I agree with you is that after a train with so much time in study and in tests, it still has problems of this caliber, however it is RENFE and not Talgo who accepts this type of trains, and of course it's a shame for the awesome Spanish technology that these things happen.
wow train!!!
Molto bello il nuovo talgo Avril 😍🚄💨
Me gusta mucho más la belleza del TALGO serie 102/112.
oh wow multi gauge high speed train! this was in trials in japan but they just couldn't get it to work!
True, but Japanese trains would have to change from 1435 mm to 1067 mm, it's a far greater change than 1435 to 1668 (368 mm vs 233) and therefore more difficult to attain. Also 1067 is too narrow to operate trains at these high speeds, the train would be too unstable
Man you are in my hometown! In fact I was on the train you crossed at the intercambiador.
One final note: I noticed that even the table seats in standard class have those entertainment screens, protruding like a sore thumb and eating useful space.
The S106 seems to be a "greatest hits" of all of the bad things RENFE thinks are good in railways: capacity at all costs, terrible seats, gimmicky stuff all over the place, etc. Sure, it can run up to 330km/h, but with that ride quality?
(And offering earplugs on a train? Never seen that before. I wonder why...)
It's impressive how fast you managed to put this video out, Thibault! It's also one of your best ones. Great work.
Although the critisism is understandable, these train makes perfectly sense as Renfe where desperately in need of a highspeed train that can change from standard to 1520 and Iberirian 1610 gauge as the previous rolling stock were dated, less capacity despide the extreme high demands and limited to 250km/h. These trainset are the first in the world capable of doing that while going 330km/h. More so these train will be improved as the train should have been running in early 2016 but yeah delays.
Also
Almost sure that those aren't earplugs but headphones to be connected to the tablets.
They aren’t earplugs, but earphones to use with the entertainment system.
Yea, and it's especially weird since the capacity thing could've been dealt with by making a double decker train instead, Spain has the gauge capacity for it! But Renfe and Talgo went for a single decker because it was the easier way out and they could cram people in more "efficiently"
@@1crafter176 i imagine single deck trains weigh a lot less though? Talgos are famed for being lightweight and thus extremely energy efficent.
Me gusta !
Big yikes at that part where train felt it was rounding that curve too fast, you'd think Renfe learned its lesson after Santiago de Compostela.
Just an aside and i could be wrong, but that greenish passenger train at Oviedo could be the Transcantábrico, Renfe's seasonal luxury train running on the northern meter gauge network.
Yes! Its either that or Costa Verde Express
Great video, was subconsciously waiting for this review funnily enough. I think Talgo needs to ditch the single axle wheelsets if they want to eliminate the shaking completely as its still reacting to brand new railway lines. The 3+2 seating looks really cramped for a flagship carrier and those seats looks like those ironing boards that we're all too familiar with here in the UK. Train set looks really cool from the outside, wondering if they could keep the existing power cars and design a new set of coaches for them. Great to see gauge changing trains hit 300kph in revenue service now.
I wonder if the lack of comfort on this train is partly due to the special bogey configurations necessary for the gauge changing "trick" that Talgo can do?
I’m for making high-speed train travel as cheaply as possible, and if that means shaky noisy trains, crowded cabins and paper-thin seats, I’m all for it. If you really want to travel with comfort you’d better take a private jet.
3+2 seating in Second Class and 2+2 in First Class is completely okay... if the train is wide enough for it. At 320 cm wide, I think they're too narrow to do that. The Shinkansen trains are 336 to 338 cm wide, and they can get away with it. But that's almost 20 cm wider, or 4 centimeters per person, which is quite significant.
Add to that the bumpy ride and uncomfortable seats, and yeah... not exactly an amazing product.
On the other hand, more seats in the width does also seem to translate to better seat pitch, and as a tall but slender person, I would actually prefer that!
14:03 Good review, but I doubt the proper word for those is "earplugs", those are probably "headphones" to be connected to the tablets on the seats.
No bike space, that is a shame! Thank you for the video👍🇪🇺
GRANDEZA ESPAÑOLA 🇪🇸
This train truly brings mental debate whether it’s good or bad :
You wanna like the train but you can’t (for some reason) _AND_ you wanna hate the train but you can’t! (for many other reasons)
I really can’t decide, can I?
The ALVIA train which has served the route will now be used for a 2nd connection between Almería and Madrid
Do you think the vibration of the cars is due to its lightweight design or the fact that the bogies must transition between standard/iberian gauge and where there would be structural reinforcement to make the ride smoother, there isnt any, because the trains design uses that space between the cars to expand/ contract gauge width?
It is due to the fact there are no bogies : each car uses indépendant wheels.
High noise level is caused by Lightweight.
I get the advantages and disadvantages of locomotive vs EMU but EMU's are so much sleeker and sexier imo. The front of this train also looks like the 800 series shinkansen
Great trip. I don't know on this route prefer high density or premium one, but I agree about seating configuration on this train suitable for AVLO rather than AVE.
Technical limitations of the Taglo system make it quite uncomfortable at higher speeds, that's to be expected.
The breakfast menu had multiple languages. Was one of them Galego? It wasn't quite Portuguese.
These seats are… something. They are way too thin for a normal long distance service, let alone the first class of a HIGH SPEED TRAIN. I would kinda get it if it was something like “premium economy/turista plus” and then feature another first class with 2+1 and a thicker seat. Also that colour does them no favour.
I would propose running them as Avlo on Barcelona-Madrid line or some other busier lines like Madrid-Valencia due to their immense capacity. The only AVE services I would keep with them running would be these cross gauge routes, but also something that isn’t AVE, but would work with Avrils is Barcelona-Valencia.
They are only for gauge changing lines
@@hermenegildoc3933 They will be used on future services to France, which do not change gauges. Also i am sure that they will not be used by gauge changing services only, given the fact that they ordered 30 of them
Can you make a trip in the portugese alfa pendular its not the best but its very good atleast for the price
I saw that train on the platform at Chamartin last week, and was surprised I hadn’t heard of it. I knew you’d come through with the news!
j'adore les tgv espagnole ce que m'ont appris cette video cette ecran tactile sur les siege et vraiment les paysage sont epoustouflant merci simply railway
Buenas,
¿A nadie se le ha ocurrido pensar que gran parte del las vibraciones pueden deberse al mal estado de la vía?
Hace unas semanas realicé un viaje de jornada entre Madrid y Zaragoza. Viaje en Iryo, Serie 109, Frecciarossa1000, a la ida y en Ave, serie 112 en el regreso. Los dos trenes se movían y oscilaban. Personalmente, la sensación que tuve es que Iryo era más silencioso y los movimientos no tan bruscos, pero las vibraciones y los movimientos estaban en los dos trenes.
De todos modos, creo que todo el mundo acepta que Talgo tiene una menor calidad en el confort de marcha, y esto es así por la propia concepción del diseño del tren. Las ruedas libres, sin ejes, y no montadas en bogies hace que el sistema no sea capaz de absorber las irregularidades de la vía tan eficazmente como otros sistemas de rodaje.
A cambio tenemos trenes accesibles, de piso bajo en toda la composición. Ligeros, que no maltratan el carril y capaces de pendular y cambiar de ancho de vía...
Escoger un modelo de tren u otro dependerá de las necesidades del servicio y de la empresa explotadora...
Tiene pinta de que es una mezcla de ambos. Durante la fase de pruebas los trenes de rodadura desplazable (los que pueden alternar entre ancho internacional e ibérico) ya daban problemas de sobrecalentamiento en ejes, al igual que en el cambio de tensión entre 25000V CA y 3000V CC (Pero como es Renfe, pues...), no me extrañaría que estas cosas las hubieran dejado pasar.
Por el otro lado los trenes de rodadura fija (solo ancho estandar) no estan dando problemas de vibracion, por lo que veo en videos.
Automatic gauge change at 16:30, the real deal
Great review!! I've seen you use an app with information about railways characteristics. Could you tell which that application is? Thanks!
Mapply
What is the app used at 10:05 ?
I will never understand why so many modern trains are going for airplane style ironing board seats, one of the reasons I like the train (at least here in the U.S.) is the seats are far more comfortable for the price in comparison to a plane.
Works to improve Chamartin have either already started or are due to start soon. This is good because it is quite dated.
on the 25 minute stop: normal for a new train but usually, problems surface after first days of service not on the very first day 😞.
on 3+2 config: terrible. bigger question is whether others will follow like happened to 777 and 787 airplanes or Renfe will see people avoid those trains and revert to 2-2.
on suspension: This is _apparently_ very light train with carbon fibre bogies (unless during development they reverted to steel bogies). But the bogies APPEAR to still be single axle between cars. (like the Turbo train we had in Canada in 1970s). A 2 axle bogie will halve the "bump" that each wheel/axle feels (but double the number of bumps). But it is much easier for suspension to suppress 2 small bumps vs 1 larger bump. And the gauge changing may also make it harder to dampen left/right motion.
Would have expected that having a perfectly smooth ride was a technical requirement at 300kmh since at that speed, taking a bump the wrong way might cause the train to be launched into orbit around the planet.
Apparentrly they sold to Le Train and hope to sell to other countries i Europe. Curious how the wider carriages will fit in various stations. Can understand how it can negotiate curves with wider but shorter cars, but it still needs to fit in a station with platforms.
Good video! I will take the new s106 Avril service in low cost service (Avlo) on 12/6 from Barcelona to Lleida and back. And i hope will take Avlo s106 Madrid-Valencia and AVE s106 Madrid-Asturias and Madrid-Galicia in October
Be careful, your life will be in great danger inside such a horrible train with no space for bikes and that awful carpet. Lo peor de lo.peor
that looks the same shaly travel i was getting on the ETR600 frecciargento in Italy on normal lines. ATR 470 too had this feeling and I was told that time that it was because the tilting system had been removed. Anyhow, might it be in this case because of this technology on the bogey that it allows it to run on different gauges?
Finaly, IS Renfe...
Wonder how ride quality is affected by the gauge-changing technology. Also since it's new, maybe it needs some warm-up? I really liked the interior design!
Thank you for this interesting video. I like the earlier RENFE Talgo trains and was surprised that you found the ride so poor. As for the seats, they really are not good enough, especially when the AVRIL train sets are to be used on long distance runs. I certainly wouldn’t travel in 2nd Class on one of these trains. The 1st Class seats (Confort) also look horrible, and 2+2 arrangement is not good enough. Hopefully the units that will be used in France will have better seats in both 1st and 2nd Class !
As for the power car at each end of the train, this is probably a result of the very low floor of the Talgo cars being unable to have much machinery below the floor, as in the ICE3 for example. Anyway, the SNCF only have TGVs with power cars at each end ! I will,certainly try one of these AVRIL trains once they are running to Paris.
Ooo what map app are you using to see the gauges?
Mapply
DUDE, this AVRIL is totally a game changer, why, they have entertainment system in this renfe ave train!!!
Like he says it is cool at the beggining but after it will be used and broken ( + the system is already not working with wrong info and only 5 movies )
Like said in the video it will make sense in the early 2010. Its 2024 people take their own phone, computer to watch their show or even listen music. Its nothing but a Gimmick now.
I give you an example. Depsite it being mainly used for music, do you still use an Ipod in 2024?
@@envoyage6886ads?
@@blackmercury956 the first Talgo Avril prototype was shown at Inno Trans in 2010.... so... 14 years is a very long time....
personally, i think those shakes add to the whole experience of high speed. i have those on ex-Thalys trains at 300km/h and I love that. for me, if no shakes, no excitement... i wouldn't want it to levitate. 😂 for that, we have planes.. sort of.🤣
A 3+2 Layout on a supposed premium product is just sad (even in 2nd class). 2+2 in 1st class isn't great either. It's a shame that little bit of extra width went towards capacity rather than comfort. The seats look very thinly padded and uncomfortable too. Might be fine on a regional train, but a high-speed long distance train? Coupled with the ride quality issues you pointed out this really does not look like a good experience.
It also makes me a bit nervous about the German ICE developed by Talgo. I hope that one is a bit less shaky. 😬
very expensive ironing boards
13:37 what exactly are the eu requirements when it comes to bike storage in trains?
I hope DB's (ICE L) and DSB's Talgo sets are not so similar to have these shaking problems. But they do look nice.
Avril run at 310 KM/h, ICE-L top speed will be 230 Km/h so that should be a smoother ride, but it also depends how good the tracks are maintained in Germany
17:49 what was the max speed the Talgo Avril S106 can reach on the Variante de Pajares( high speed line at minute 17:49 )?
200 km/h
Hello. Yes, Chamartín is undergoing a thorough and complete refurbishment. Just a quick note to improve the information on your video: iryo is owned by a Spanish company, ILSA, and Trenitalia has a share of 45 %, so it is not an Italian company as such. At some points, you should try and be more accurate in the information you provide on your videos. I've also noticed you have been more keen and prone to show the possible weak aspects of this Talgo train; I wonder whether it would be so too in the case of an Alstom train... By the way, the ride quality depends a lot on the tracks quality, not on the train itself.
quite nice - but if they want me on the trains they must bring back compartments and proper dining cars
El Talgo Avril is very nice and good train because the floor of train is on the same level as the platform. The author said the Talgo Avril is shaky.
Thisis not correct. The TGY and the Siemens trains are also shaku. The problem is the condition of the track.
Are you saying that the Madrid-Asturias rail track that was inaugurated 1 year ago (!) is shit ??? That's quite an indictment, there
Interesting.
I don't like the android tablets on the tables, but they're fine in the seats.
You were saying that RENFE wants to use these in France against SNCF and Trenitalia.
Does this mean Trenitalia wants to join the France-Spain hsl route too?
14:03 wow, that's pretty damming. If you feel the need to provide earplugs on a train, you might just wanna throw the train away
They are not earplugs, they are HEADPHONES, they were given to passengers WAY before Avrils entered service.
10:04 what app did you use to show the train tracks?
I wonder if the new Danish Talgo Waggons will be just as shaky 🤔🤔🤔
Beautiful looking train with bad passenger comfort?
Sounds like the rail equivalent of the Boeing 757.
There are tv?
The first class seats appear rather narrow but with huge gaps between. I would also think that there are better seat types.
they look cheap and like an ironing board
The L in Talgo Ligero which must have some effect on the noise and vibration. I do not like the 5 across seating but can understand why it is done. Confort Clase should have some single seats, though there is plenty of room.