19:45 - How does Euthyphro's second answer remove the necessity of god/gods? "They love something because it is pious" does not negate the very possibility that piety of that thing was infused by the god/gods themselves in the first place.
If God/gods love something because it is pious, then the "something" was already pious regardless of God's/the gods' love. And if God/the gods chose to "infuse" the something with piety, it still doesn't answer the question of what piety is. It just adds an extra unnecessary layer onto the question, because now the question becomes, "Why did God/the gods choose to infuse that particular something with piety?" If the answer is "We cannot know the mind of God/the gods", then you've not answered the question of what piety is.
Whats interesting to me is that, as you mentioned, Socrates never speaks on "It is pious because the Gods love it". Wouldn't this fall into the category of his criminal charge, in a sense? I love that Socrates almost begs Euthyphro to speak on this subject, enter Socratic Irony: define piety or tell me that what I am being accused of is not impiety. Brilliant!
By what metric is god good, just, and pious? Are those ideas separate from God, or creations of God. Does God not determine what is good just and pious?
@@calvinfuller5293 Most I could speculate is that God exhibits infinite benevolence. Being a mere human myself, bound by time and space I can not fully comprehend his nature.
I think the second part of the fork is correct, it just need to be framed another way. A pious action is pious because God says so but it doesn't make piety or pious actions arbitrary. Because it may be the case that God has said so for the reason that it is good for us. It's not good in itself but God knows as He is a supreme Being that it would not be good for us. Same like parents. Parents knows what is good for their child and they command those actions. Now to ask whether the commanded actions are good because parents said so or they are good in themselves would not help us. We should think that they are good because parents knows better what's good for us and so there must be some reason for their command.
Now this problem depends on the religion, but if we have one god as creator your answer pushes the problem further- if God created the good, what is pious then is not arbitrary, but what is good (on which piety depends) is arbitrary.
Thanks for making your lectures public
Thank you Adam! I'm taking a philosophy class online and your classes have really filled in the gap. ☺️
Thanks Adam for recording your lectures.
the student who is a mother at the end is very sweet and thoughtful with her child 😊
Might I say the fire engine analogy was very very good.
19:45 - How does Euthyphro's second answer remove the necessity of god/gods? "They love something because it is pious" does not negate the very possibility that piety of that thing was infused by the god/gods themselves in the first place.
If God/gods love something because it is pious, then the "something" was already pious regardless of God's/the gods' love. And if God/the gods chose to "infuse" the something with piety, it still doesn't answer the question of what piety is. It just adds an extra unnecessary layer onto the question, because now the question becomes, "Why did God/the gods choose to infuse that particular something with piety?"
If the answer is "We cannot know the mind of God/the gods", then you've not answered the question of what piety is.
Because that then exists outside of the gods creation. It implies piety as preceding divine expression. If we took gods away, piety would still exist
Either 720 quality or all CAPS on the board would be much appreciated ^^ Hard to see whats there.
Whats interesting to me is that, as you mentioned, Socrates never speaks on "It is pious because the Gods love it". Wouldn't this fall into the category of his criminal charge, in a sense? I love that Socrates almost begs Euthyphro to speak on this subject, enter Socratic Irony: define piety or tell me that what I am being accused of is not impiety. Brilliant!
This seem like an awesome class ever bodies so engaged.
Any chance we can get a mic in the gallery?
Rectangles and squares are both species of quadilaterals
You got a sub
Love from 🇮🇳 India
its because God is all good, just, and pious, and his commandments reflect his nature.
By what metric is god good, just, and pious? Are those ideas separate from God, or creations of God. Does God not determine what is good just and pious?
@@calvinfuller5293 As I said its part of his nature. Creation happens within time and space, God is outside of time and space.
@@RichardCorral could you elaborate? I’m not sure what you mean “it’s part of his nature”
@@RichardCorral I’m more asking, what does it mean for god to be good?
@@calvinfuller5293 Most I could speculate is that God exhibits infinite benevolence. Being a mere human myself, bound by time and space I can not fully comprehend his nature.
To put it better. Can we say piety is that part of justice that has to do with the service to God?
I think the second part of the fork is correct, it just need to be framed another way. A pious action is pious because God says so but it doesn't make piety or pious actions arbitrary. Because it may be the case that God has said so for the reason that it is good for us. It's not good in itself but God knows as He is a supreme Being that it would not be good for us. Same like parents. Parents knows what is good for their child and they command those actions. Now to ask whether the commanded actions are good because parents said so or they are good in themselves would not help us. We should think that they are good because parents knows better what's good for us and so there must be some reason for their command.
Then God is using reason. What is “good” for humans
Now this problem depends on the religion, but if we have one god as creator your answer pushes the problem further- if God created the good, what is pious then is not arbitrary, but what is good (on which piety depends) is arbitrary.
32:51 that god is not real as a horse and a patient are.
CHECK MATE ATHEISTS.