How to Prep and Install a Window for an ICF Home
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ย. 2024
- We show you how to install a window into an ICF rough opening. The focus today is on the prep work and details of the building paper, peel n stick and what order to install it so you have proper water shed. Don't forget, all ICF buildings need building paper or even a fluid applied membrane to shed and control water. We also used some 3M product which we are very happy with. Thin, flexible and sticky. Don't forget to check out www.uptokode.ca
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I'm Kody Horvey, owner of Up To Kode; a full service carpentry, contracting and consulting company that proudly serves Red Deer and all of Central Alberta.
We are committed to being Central Alberta’s most sustainable and energy efficient builder with a strong focus on quality and innovation.
Our vision is to continually implement and increase the use of high efficient building practices and products to create sustainable, multi generation structures.
Here on TH-cam, we hope to share our work, get you inspired, and give you the knowledge to plan and execute your own projects.
Questions? Just ask! Email kody@uptokode.com
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If I ever find a lot to build a home, I swear your channel will save me so much money.
Appreciate your videos and opinions. If you want to see if manufacturers have suggested you don’t need building paper but I appreciate your opinion is it based on experience and you can see very closely in the video how much better the product is going to be. Thank you I’ll keep watching your videos
I find there’s a big difference between theoretical information and functional or practical. On “paper” an ICF building doesn’t need house wrap. True when talking about air infiltration BUT a building also need a drainage plane below the exterior cladding. This is the difference. The foam is not a proper material for drainage
"Frickin' turds..." LOVE IT!!!!!!
Agreed.
High quality work and high quality instruction. Thanks!
Appreciate that!
Hey BC , THANK YOU FOR THAT QUESTION , SERIOUSLY !!!! I was wondering the exact same thing , and , KODY , THANK YOU for the excellent answer. I will be flashing my ICF window openings just like you do particularly since I installed my window bucks within the ICF walls. I honestly did not consider water travelling along the block lines. Well done.
You’re welcome! Drainage is always key 🔑
Appreciate your ICF info, hoping to build an ADU out of ICF and add a nice corner kitchen window. Thanks for the inspiration.
What’s an ADU? But if you’re using ICF that’s great! And the corner windows are amazing!
@@uptokode ADU, is a secondary housing unit on a single-family residential lot. Help to increase housing density in the city. We can build 900sq ft without all the usual city development fees
Very cool! Great idea and glad some cities are allowing this.
Love the real live commentary ;p I feel like this shows how to layer and do good water shedding can’t wait to do it myself tomorrow, feeling confident after this # awesome
Awesome! Good luck
So let me get this straight, you are doing the paper and peel/stick to stop water intrusion from running down the face of the foam, correct? Please explain how the same water, doesn't just go behind the paper/ peel stick? It seems to me that you have actually made it easier for that to happen.
Never seen tape on paper strips before wrapping the house. I like it.
That is nice for that build, I am looking more for pour in place insulated window frames for stucco finish.
They are available.
@@uptokode I have seen steel bucks though I have not found any ones that are insulated. I am even thinking about venting type doors with built in windows. Though so far nothing that is insulated to stop thermal bridging to the concrete.
I'd like to see a video on basement egress windows and ICF. Do you use a pre-fab well or build one with concrete? How does this tie into the wall (direct to concrete or plastic studs?)? How does it complicate waterproofing?
Great question! Good video topic I will make note of. If you want a direct answer just email me. kody@uptokode.com. I can give you some ideas.
Great video detail on this one. I am using Logix 13.5" blocks with 8" core, their D-Rv added insulation panels and their Probuck. With your experience with ICF is there any window specifics you recommend that work well with icf with using the icf bucks for install? Do they handle standard nailing fin no issue, brick mold. Completing this with vinyl siding. Great videos, please keep sharing.
I don’t have much experience with the logix bucks. I would imagine you can use a standard flanged window and install in the typical fashion. Make a quick call to your supplier to confirm
Kody, you’ve answered some questions for me in the past I’ve got one for you building paper for the ICF. I was going to cover my entire exterior of my home prior to putting up the skin on the ICF which is going to be standing seam metal roof material vertically on the walls, was looking at Tyvek or blockit, and wanted to know if you had a preference my contractor is suggesting blockit because it is slightly acting as a rain screen because of its dimples. And thank you again for all your videos I came back to this one several times and coming back to it again thinking you might have made a suggestion.
I’m glad I’ve been helpful to you! I personally don’t like Tyvek but I don’t know anything about blockit. Sounds good to me having a bit of a rain screen. I like a more fabric based WRB versus tyvek where it seems more like plastic.
You will need strapping on the ICF if you are installing vertical metal. Or anything vertical.
I would put the paper on top of the strapping. This is assuming your windows are mounting to the strapping as well. It will keep the WRB on the same plane and will be easy to detail windows. Just my opinion. Cheers!
So do you apply building paper just above the windows or do you still paper the whole building?
Thanks for your time
The whole building. In order to maintain a drainage plane it must be the entire wall. I have videos coming soon on the same topic.
Kody, Thank you for the videos. I am building a Nudura ICF house and am getting close to install windows and doors. Do you have any videos for installing exterior doors? I am curious how to deal with the wide door jamb? I have 2x12 bucks and doors are only 2x6.
Thank you again.
You’re welcome David! We just build and install a secondary jamb that butts into the existing door one. We leave a decent reveal so that the latch doesn’t rub on the jamb. With the buck being wood you have lots to attach too. Then it’s trim like normal after that.
As for the install itself. We treat it the exact same way as a window. Bottom flap and all. We also silicone the heck out of the bottom sill
Do you not need caulking or silicone around the window flanges?
I don’t. Just layer and watershed the layers properly.
so with the window tape, you don't have to use caulk on the window?
I don’t typically silicone the windows. I let the proper shedding of layers to do natures work.
can you use a liquid flashing like prosoco instead of housewrap? housewrap is just not that great in general
Yes. I just haven’t researched which liquid applied membrane is best for ICF.
Kody can you show a video on how you apply building paper onto icf above grade and below grade. Also a video on installing veneer stone or brick on icf wall that comes out of ground to first floor level.
thanks dan in RI
How to Parge on ICF - Preparation Tips
th-cam.com/video/GyKdgmMmenY/w-d-xo.html
I shared a video here Dan. This parging one may cover a bunch of your questions
Hey Kody, building about 4 hours north of Red Deer. Is the process you used here still current? We will be installing our windows into our ICF basement in a little over a month. Also what kind of jam do you recommend? We have 12” ICF walls and have been given an option of 12 1/8 jam so that you can fit the drywall underneath or 2 1/8” jamb with 1/2” drywall return where we would have to do a separate jam. Im not sure what’s easier to install and easier to finish. Thoughts? Thanks!
Do you have links for the products you used in this video? Thanks!
what is the product you use for the 6"x6" corner square- you call it "peel & stick" is that just the 3M?
Yes I use the 3M tape for that! Same goes for the little butterfly stick for the corner. They do make plastic corners but I find they build the window out too far and it messes up your siding and the jamb depth for your time . 3M keeps it tight
Do you install the window bearing entirely on the foam? I am getting windows without nail fin or brick mold in order to set the frame in deeper to bear on the concrete and not the foam. Does it matter?
Windows should not 'sit'. They should be nailed or screwed into the bucks. The bucks carry the load.
Anyone,
What's the pros of having a window flush with the outside as presented by Kody? I'm currently spit balling ideas for an ICF house in Washington State, which obviously has a considerable amount of rain. Would it be a good idea to have the window mounted closer to the inside leaving a 4-6 inch ledge on the outside of the window. That way we can open the windows (slide style, not hinged) while its raining outside and not have rain come in, unless its raining sideways. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Doug. This is a good consideration. As long as you flash a recessed window properly you can do anything you want.
Typically it’s more labour to flash a recessed window, that’s why exterior mounted are used.
I can help you figure out some window details if you want it recessed. kody@uptokode.com
Why are you using a deferent peel and stick in the corners after your butterflies and not the 3M?
Is there a good reason why someone could just blue skin the entire home and forego the house wrap?
We bought a home and previous owner was the builder and he never installed any house wrap, window or door flashing membrane etc. we are replacing all windows/doors and siding soon. Thanks
Love the detail for the bottom corner flashing, never considered marrying up paper and tape before either. the need for house wrap, didn't think it was a requirement for ICF construction?
Thanks for commenting
I’m thinking about building an icf house. The question is, can you get cell phone reception inside of one of these buildings?
Yes you can get cell service but it does reduce it quite a bit. Haven’t needed to install a booster yet.
If you’re going to wrap the house anyway, why not wrap it first and then you already have the paper around the windows?
Whatever works best for you personal workflow. Just make sure to shingle the layers properly. Paper ALWAYS under the bottom flange.
Thank you so much for your answers! God bless!
Hmmm, window buck tech is pretty archaic. What’s up in Europe?
Curious if you can provide any sort of link available for your 3M products?? TIA
so it is ok for the window to be even more energy inefficient because it is already inefficient?
Even the best window has a low R-Value compared to the wall. In my mind it’s better to have a good buck with a lot of advantages versus a thermally broken one that only saves a very minute amount of surface area and would complicate installation of the ICF, the window, trim and potentially exterior finishes.
In our previous discussion, you mentioned 2 peel & stick products to mitigate moisture is that also applied to the inside of your bucks against the concrete? Nice job why not use peel & stick instead of just building wrap (is it for cost savings? Thanks again!
I like peal n stick AND paper for better protection. For the bottom of the window it allows easy lapping of paper when siding starts. Watershed is so critical because this part of the building envelope must be able to drain and have water exit to the exterior.
Do you install a peel & stick product between the wood buck and the concrete to protect it? @@uptokode
When we install the bucks we install a 8” sill gasket where the concrete will pour up against the wood.
Thanks, Kody that clears up my question!
Thanks for the info.
Have you ever tried Tyvek Flexwrap (6" or 9") for the sealing up the bottom of the window opening?
No I haven’t. Do you like the product?
@@uptokode Yes, I do like the product, it makes wrapping the bottom corners much easier and it makes a seamless sill pan. I have also used it under doors, works great. (Note, my experience is limited to standard wood construction, but I see no reason for it to be any different in this ICF application).
Also, thanks for all the information on ICF construction, your videos are clear and concise, and it is much appreciated!
First of all thank you so much for this, building a ICF home in North West corner North Carolina in 2023 wanting metal siding as the exterior finish, looking for suggestions or a video that you might have done that talks about applying metal siding do I need a spacer or can I apply the metal siding directly to the ICF naturally I would have a liquid air barrier applied to the ICF but didn't know if I needed a spacer between the metal and the ICF
I really like the idea of a liquid applied membrane. If you find one that is compatible with ICF please let me know what it is. You can install metal horizontally to ICF no problem. The metal will never sit tight enough to stop water from draining out behind and you have the vertical ties to attach to.
If you want to run the metal vertically then you need wood strapping that runs horizontally for attachment purposes only.
Does that help Marty? It’s stucco systems that seem the most troublesome for trapping water behind.
@@uptokode absolutely this helps tremendously, I do plan on running the metal vertical. Was planning on a seamless look between the roof and the walls having the same material. The idea of the spacer is what I was thinking I needed to do to help dry out the wall between the metal panel and the ICF even though it has fluid applied material on it. I believe there is a number of materials that actually say or talk about being designed for ICF walls fluid applied. The one that comes to mind appears pink.
As it relates to the spacer behind I was thinking about running it at a 45° angle not horizontal to allow any fluid behind the metal panel not to settle on the wood but allow it to drain 45 may be too steep and was planning on not running the spacer continuous but about every 6 feet allowing for a 2 inch gap so the water can drop from that angle piece of wood down to the next and eventually out the weep at the bottom
If I was running vertical metal then I would install my 1x4 horizontally and then install a WRB (building paper) on top of that for my drainage plane. Just did this on a commercial building. Then I can detail my windows and everything is cohesive. Then I don’t worry about catching water on my furring strips.
@@uptokode that sounds good, am I just doing belts and suspenders by doing fluid applied also or would I be OK with just the paper? Your thoughts
Paper is just fine. Especially if you install wood furring strips, then I see no other way without making it difficult.
If you installed the metal directly to the ICF wall then the liquid applied membrane would be fantastic
A sill pan would be much faster. Have you ever used those?
No we haven’t.
Seeing lumber is so expensive, what are other options for the window buck?
Hello, Kody! Thank you for this detailed video! I am planning to build my house with ICF blocks and currently designing window openings. I've noticed that this window opening is pretty close to the side wall on the left.. How many inches minimum should it be spaced from that "inner" corner? Does it make a difference if it would be fixed narrow (about 8") window with 12" ICF blocks?
You can be as close as you want but when you pour you have to install strapping to stop the corner from bulging outward. This is done by attaching a 1x4 or 1x6 (minimum 1 per row) and go across the buck and tie into the ICF further down. This is crucial
How do you attach house wrap to ICF?
You can push shingle nails into the foam. Don’t get too far ahead of yourself with your siding. Don’t want it blowing off.
Or use wafer screws if you want. They will hold it tight. Sometimes we use scrap plywood from site to hold down the edges so wind doesn’t pick it up. If wind can’t underneath it doesn’t take much to keep it intact.
Hey Cody,
Love your informative videos.
I have a self build project in England and am leaning towards using Nudura ICF
The finish I would like to have on the outside is smooth render, I think you would refer to it as stucco. How does that apply to an ICF structure wrapped in building paper, would you wire mesh mechanically and then stucco or are there other ways?
Thanks,
Charlie
Hey Charlie. What we called “floated” Stucco is the smoothest texture without going with some form of metal cladding.
For stucco I go with…
-typar against the foam
-then 2 layers of tar paper for drainage plain
-screw stucco wire to the ties
-scratch coat, brown coat, primer and acrylic stucco finish.
Tar paper directly against the foam will deteriorate it. That’s why you use a synthetic paper first. Hope that helps
Cody do you cut your own butterfly stitches or do you have a place you get them from
Is the house wrap enough to protect from watershed? I worked on a multi unit building made with icf and we used house wrap everywhere but were still getting leaks in many of the windows .. I was not on the project since day 1 so Im not sure where they went wrong but this was a serious issue. Is there any video on how you do it properly so that there is no leaks whatsoever? Thanks!
Great question. Tons of factors that could cause leakage. Sometimes it’s real basic like shingling and layering things properly. Some trades still don’t understand this. The only other system would be a proven liquid applied membrane which I’m still learning about.
End dams on drip caps are critical (top side of windows). Making sure you have a drip cap at any horizontal break in the siding. This allows all the water from above to fall away from the building instead of running all the way down from the very top.
What are you using for the window bucks?
Thanks
What kind of windows do you recommend... balancing budget and performance?
Depends on your area. I like Plygem windows, I like Lux windows but I don’t have a ton of exposure to all the different brands. Have seen some amazing high end brands too. Just waiting to use some of those.
I do like a metal clad window. A lot more options for color and a way better look than vinyl.
@@uptokode after watching some of your videos, I really want to do icf. My builder said he's built several, but the cost is 20% more? He says everything is harder from plumbing and electrical to drywall and exterior cladding. I've watched several videos, those trades are different, but I wouldn't say harder. What are your thoughts? Any chance you just want to come down to the states and help me out?! Ha, just kidding about these last part
@@uptokode and he said I'll have to have my plans 'completely' redrawn. What would be the reason for that? It's just the exterior wall thickness that is changing, and the easy the floor will tie in.
Any opinion on fluid applied?
That’s one I need to research more. Wish I had an answer for you. If you find one please share your info.
It’s a great idea for sure and I really like the concept.
@@uptokode Matt Risinger has a ton of videos on using fluid applied membrane for window installs (as well as whole house applications).
@@uptokode like Waremonger said matt risinger has many videos on fluid applied and I think it could be integrated into your system pretty easy, not sure on cost. Spray on blue barrier over your sills and down the ICF would be both easier and more "bomber" , as Matt would say.
th-cam.com/video/8REZYAUaaRk/w-d-xo.html
If you are going to wrap the icf house anyway, why piece meal the windows in first? Why not wrap the whole house then install the windows?
Do it anyway you like. As long as there’s water shed and proper lapping of the layers how it gets done it up to you.
@@uptokode Thanks for the reply, but you didn't answer my question. When time is money, piece mealing it seems expensive. I was just wanting to know why you chose to do it that way.
I do it this way so I can install the windows and have the ability to lap paper from below the window and install the rest of the paper later or in the future. That way I can do one task at a time.
If you paper before hand, that’s totally a good idea, you just need to be mindful of the laps when installing the windows.
Never thought of it your way but it is a very viable option
Why not liquid flash it? Would take far less Tim and the bucks will never rot if they get wet.
What’s a drip cap?
I see you use OSB to frame the windows. Have you also tried other methods (2x6...) and why did you choose OSB?
I like the OSB rim board for many reasons. Cheaper than LVL and I don’t need structural support for the window so OSB is more than sufficient. Just need something solid to nail to (inside and out).
Other systems with plywood and 2x6 seem like a hassle. Either too much labour to build or extra bracing required. Sometimes you don’t have solid material to attach the window or trim work to. Depending on which design you use.
Hope that helps you.
@@uptokode thanks for they reply once again! What thickness OSB do you use? I was under the impression one disadvantage is not being able to nail into the side of OSB but I might be wrong. You just brace by putting some wood vertically and horizontally in the window? Once again thanks for the amazing vids and answers!
thinness is a word. :)
Haha. Okay great
Origami no thanks, I will go fluid applied even if the commentators indicate it is more expensive, I know I can paint!
I really like the fluid applied stuff too ! I haven’t researched it much for ICF.
My thoughts exactly, I'm going to end up doing a fluid applied on the whole house, painting seems easy, plus my building is 18 foor high that way I dont need a scaffold or two or three people to help put on a peel and stick. I did the math in my building which is 5k sqft house, fluid applied only seemed to be about 5 grand, so not enough to worry about cost
Hey Kody. I’m in the planning stages of building an icf. I see on most all of the ICF brand websites that the ICF works as a vapor barrier as well. Have you had experiences or witnessed others in a situation with water getting in without an additional barrier on the exterior?
Yes I have had first hand experience. Technically yes it’s a vapour barrier, BUT it is not a drainage plane! Water will not run down the face of an ICF wall. It can get through the lines where one block meets the next and go almost anywhere. This concerns me around windows as there’s no way to keep water to the outside except with the use of building paper. Does this help explain it?
The block companies are speaking in technical terms and not practical usage.
@@uptokode yes, thank you!
Anytime!
@@uptokode but what about when you stocco ICF? You can put building paper on if you do stocco or am I wrong?
What’s the best way to secure the house wrap to the ICF?
Depends on a few things. Sometimes just a shingle nail into the foam is enough. It works better than one would think. I wouldn’t do that to an entire house and leave it for days or weeks.
Thinking then if I shingle nailed it I could install rain screen for hardy board right after, that would hold it in place until I install hardy.
Exactly!
i’m confused why u would put the paper under the peel and stick, it should b the other way around!
That’s totally up to you. I’m not sure if there is an iron clad way of doing it. I just like the ability to always have it lapped properly.
what is that windows company?
These are Lux windows.
That's a LOT of Origami. I see belt and suspenders and duct tape and bailing wire and pocket lint and bubble gum and a Bic pen. Why not just use Prosoco and sleep good at night?
Tell me more about it. I assume it’s liquid applied membrane? Is it rated and tested for ICF? I still need to research all the types but that takes time and effort
@@uptokode I'm gonna contact the ICF companies. Just thought I'd ask your experience. I love building high-performance stuff. It's like building race cars. (I think I want to build premium homes (like a Tesla) with zero energy bill guarantee (restrictions apply), bumper-to-bumper warranty and a maintenance package for well-heeled clients who want peace of mind.). Numbers like yours go a long way. You're cold & dry, we're hot & humid.
Prosoco is family of products like Poly Wall - roll-on (or spray & back-roll) elastomeric, 16 mils thick, self-seals around nails. Sort of like Zip-System coating. I don't know if the ICF foam is too fragile. They also have liquid & big tube products for seams & wrapping around windows & doors. It's continuous & no layers, like a submarine. I'd like to circle the house as few times as possible. We cant/tilt our window sills about 3 degrees to the outside and use the paint-on Prosoco WRB (water resistant barrier) all around. Then we run a backer bead around the inside of the window-to-frame and seal that also. This makes ithe window completely air & water sealed & makes a sill-dam to keep out water. Like you, we don't seal the bottom window flange to allow water a way get out, while eliminating air leakage. But at 0.23 ACH50, you're WAY below Passiv Haus. Doing something right. This also eliminates air sealing by hand and AeroSeal, AeroBarrier.
I'm learning about ICFs because I'm moving to the Emerald Coast, Florida panhandle, and I looking for products to be our SOP (standard operating procedure). Using LiteDeck allows the (flat) roof to be used as living space/deck. I've been working in the Bay Area, California, in earthquake country, doing high performance projects. Florida is different from California (no earthquakes) and has different issues like hurricanes, humidity, lost of rain, 95% of the time indoors so IAQ, VOCs & mold are concerns as well.
Are you running a rain screen outside the ICFs, behind the siding? I'm exploring fast, effective ways to address this new set of challenges with as many synergies as I can muster. Did you take helpful class(es) for each brand of ICF? Did you ever try the concrete version of ICFs (autoclaved aerated concrete)? I forgot that Florida has termites also. I know the termites can't get through the concrete, but people have had termites/other bugs nesting inside the exterior foam siding.
Anyway, impressive numbers.
@@uptokode Hi. We used Prosoco brand, but there are other similar lines we looked at. They have the big sausages that you apply and spread out all around the frame, and out onto the flat exterior. This stuff is heavier and has fibers to make it stronger. We sloped the sill to the outside for positive drainage. The windows go in & we seal the sides & tops to the building, leaving the bottom open for drainage. At the interior, we put backer bead around the entire inside perimeter of the window + sealant atop that, so now we have 100% water and air seal, and positive drainage to the exterior for any water that might in, moisture/vapor mostly, I guess, in your climate. Never a chance of any leaks. Then the CAT5 product is rolled on the exterior (or use ZIP-R and the window buck treatment finishes sealing the opening to the ZIP). Water barrier, air barrier, thermal barrier. Now it's a submarine in very few steps. 🍒 We're going to be using this system in Florida where water and humidity are constantly trying to invade our homes. ICFs for hurricanes, rains, bugs, termites, fire, durability. I'm trying to identify the challenges so we can mitigate them and combine positive synergies. Let me know what you think. Really. I like your videos.
Stinking ridiculous over kill. My house is 60yo with original windows. Would hate to see all 'prep' it was made with.
For a single storey bungalow you can almost get away with no prep as long as you have a good sized overhang. The details become very important once you go with 2 storey or more. Way more open wall space for driving rain to run down.
@@uptokode Not meant to be a criticism. Enjoy your videos. Just compared to yesteryear things seem like over kill. For instance, my house is block foundation (genius), can last for years with no waterproofing at all. But, sooner or later... By then the contractor is dead! Looking forward to building an ICF home. Your stuff has been quite helpful.