VISA to audit & fine small businesses for passing on increasing fees.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ส.ค. 2024
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Timestamps:
00:00 - The fly
00:30 - Intro
00:42 - CC companies keeping the transaction fee when refunding the customer
01:18 - CC companies charging chargeback fees
03:13 - Businesses are starting to pass on the credit card companies' greed to customers who choose to use a credit card
04:08 - I am not saying bodegas are angels; let's be clear.
04:45 - This principle applies to all small businesses, not just bodegas
05:11 - What the basic groundrules were back in the day
05:47 - Die, fly, die
05:50 - How minimums hurt merchants
06:55 - Who is really getting rich off of this?
10:00 - Banks are making way more money off these fees while still increasing fees to small businesses
10:57 - The real problem here is the CC companies trying to obscure why prices are going up
12:00 - CONCLUSION & TL;DR
12:25 - What every business should do
12:55 - CC providers put businesses at risk, and don't allow them to bill for this
13:48 - Just because bodegas are easy targets doesn't mean we should ignore the issue
14:40 - They will do this to businesses you like too
At 5:30 blackberry stares so intensely into your soul, you can't help but wonder if she is in the room with you and not simply a figment of pixels on your screen. Tell me I'm wrong.
You missed an 's' off the end of the artical link :)
Louis: I'm gonna get you, maddafu...
Horsefly: I'M FLYING HERE!!!
Probably the increased emf of blackberry crushing past your skull, reducing penis size more quickly than android or I phones reduce men's penis sizes .
Put the Iphone receiver right up to your right temple, same feeling? Probably.
Although socially acceptable? why not also lock the elderly in the garage with the car running.
Or, join the other side, and blow cigar smoke in the faces of everyone with a cell phone in use.
if a place surcharges me, That's the last time they'll see me at their business. its plain and simple to me. I'd rather they raise the prices of everything they sell by 0.50 cents than to start tacking on service charges and fees or discounts for payment types.
I'm more amused by the fly going by and you turning into a mobster for half a second
So.. let me get this straight.
VISA is charging more fees to businesses (again) and they expect these businesses to NOT TRANSFER those fees to their customers?
ffs...
People need to start using cash again.
visa, just hogging those theoretical esg brownie points
Well, at least not in a way that points to the real reason of the cost (VISA)
Where do businesses get their money again?? Must be the government who pays for it all..
Bring back the gold shilling!
Yet somehow, every utility company, landlord, cable company etc has no problems charging exorbinant fees for this shit.
Getting a society dependent on your product: decades and billions of dollars.
The look in your clients faces when you abuse trust: Priceless.
@@HaggisMuncher-69-420fact check: true. And they are totally not there because when only one company exists in an industry they are ripe for antitrust actions. 🙄😉
@@HaggisMuncher-69-420master this cardick visaaaaaa
That's Twitter now x
That's the problem with having two companies control all merchant processing. When Visa and Mastercard decided to block Pronhub from all transactions, a lot of shortsighted people were praising the decision without realizing the dangers of that decision.
@@joshallen128 Just stop using twitter, there's literally no reason to be on there and there never was. If you're "dependent" on it that's objectively a you problem.
At the stores I've worked at, we never charged "credit card fees"... We just gave a "cash discount" of 3% 😂
Same. It's basic psychology. Don't present the punishment, present the reward and behavior is modified.
I used to see "cash discounts" all the time but contrary to what Louis says I'm actually seeing less "cash discounts" and less "minimum credit card fees".
If people know credit cards are charging more than people will move towards cash instead. A lot of businesses just increase prices without saying its CCs.
@DaveSmith-cp5kj no, it's a bullshit loophole attempting to skirt the law. Louis is wildly wrong and anti-consumer on this topic.
How do people not know this? It’s displayed on gas station price boards. The price of gas is always cheaper when you use cash for it.
You would think people would understand that it’s cheaper to buy goods with cash rather than use a network to pay for goods. Pretty much everyone buys gas.
They need to audit LARGE entities like state governments who tack on convenience fees, but they won't because the Visa would no longer be accepted and it would cost them millions, if not hundreds of millions. They're picking on small businesses because they can.
Consumers need to change their behavior and start using cash once again at small businesses
@@AR7271 Or check if local.
@@AR7271 people also need to keep transactions off the books because the tax rates are just insane. We fought a war and became our own country over less than half our current rate. why is it ok in todays society?
@@oceanbytez847 poor education. We didn't go to war over a tax rate.
@jonathanbarnett7897 It was "over taxes" yes but like you're saying it wasn't about rates it was about being expected to pay taxes without having any representation in the govt. (American Revolution. England wanted the colonies to pay taxes but wouldnt give them any representation in their govt.) Or as they said back then "No taxation without representation"
Why would they pass this cost onto the business owner and not the customer who made the fraudulent charge back? It's because these sleezy slime balls don't want the customer to know that THEY are the real reason it costs more to use their credit card. They want the perception to be that it's the merchant who has unreasonable credit card prices.
Imagine a theft occurring at a store and the clerk calls the police. The police come and investigate and see the surveillance footage of the customer stealing. The police then let the theif go and charge the store $20 for having to respond to the call. This is what these companies are doing. In what world does this make sense?
The "customer" using the card is making the credit card companies a lot of $$. So for smaller transactions, he CC company will actually eat the meritless charge-back themselves, which is why a lot of them now want that $20 minimum from the merchant. It sucks. I've been hit with a lot of fraudulent charge-backs over the past 20 years running sales via PayPal. Even with proof, you don't win all of them.
Only in one where all Economics is driven by Debt based currencies.
Bankers are the single largest criminal Cartel in Human History. Bar none in 2023.
they simply do not check anymore, it costs too much. so if you can not afford a business, they say it is not their problem anyway, from their perspective you do not have a viable business, go to work for somebody who can afford all the taxes and comissions and all added costs of doing business...
"In what world does this make sense?"
California, apparently-
@@kaden-sd6vb Louis is in Texas.
Visa, it's everywhere you don't want it to be.
Top Tier comment 🎉
😂
Like a horsefly
It could change in 30 days if we all truly want it to happen
Merchant services should be a utility...
I paid over $43K last year in processing fees, and my customers have no idea. My employees don't either. It's abusive and I will start charging an additional fee beginning in January. If the cc company doesn't like it well that's just tough. I have no more margin left to squeeze. I'm getting it from all sides.
Do it like the Delis here in NYC. Don't put an additional fee. Adjust prices a bit and offer a e.g. 3% discount when paying cash ;-)
@@PascalGiengerexactly 💯
If people know credit cards are charging more than people will move towards cash instead. A lot of businesses just increase prices without saying its CCs. CC companies will wage war to hide the fees@@PascalGienger
We ran into this issue when I owned restaurants. It used to illegal to pass on the processing fee (funny how that law changed when fast food and government entities started accepting cards in the late 90’s)… we solved it by just increasing our prices by 5-10% and offered a discount for cash. I also kept and ATM inside the building with low fee.
It's still illegal, you can't charge a credit card fee. Business attempt to skirt the law by offering a "cash discount".
The fact that ya'll are so anti-consumer on this is mind blowing.
Big business doesn't want competition. They're just choking off small businesses as much as possible. Not just them, but literally every other big company (including Google).
It's not competition..Business are passing their charges to us instead of negotiating with the bank
@@imbalancedstatus8824 not much to bargain with.Banks are a unique kind of monopoly if not properly goverment regulated.
Welcome to Capitalism.
Because of that, we are forced to always come back to their services no matter how much we hate them
If there is no immediate action, we will forever only has 2 option: use their service or go back to stone age
first free, heavily subsidized with tons of money from investors, after the market is somehow cleared, then a small fee for covering some costs but with some added services, after the market is totally cleared, boom, the biggest prices ever for a product or service and nowhere to go or switch to...
I understand why there are so many cash-only bars and clubs in major cities now. Always thought it was just tax fraud
Depends where you are. Here in Europe that's definitely the case, however here card fees are heavily regulated (and the EU is actually cracking down even more on them), however in the US it's definitely because of the fees as they are sometimes more than 4 times higher than in Europe or Australia.
@@TGX03Why would European bars and clubs be doing tax fraud
@@XVXC-M8 Cause it saves money? Not paying VAT of over 20% and income taxes of 20-40% is definitely a nice save
@@XVXC-M8 why would European bars and clubs NOT be doing tax fraud?
Accepting cash isn't fraud.
Absolutely with the chargebacks. In fact, ten years ago, not only did my bank tell me for $750 in transactions that I didn't make, that they required me to file a police report first, but then they said that they would be unable to file it until the investigation was complete, which never happened, probably because the police have better things to do than to launch and complete an investigation and do the bank's job for them.
they dont do anything else
This happened to me with a " food stamp" card from nys. They are called e.b.t. anyway, somehow mine was pickpocketed , and the same run around about police report and investigation. The store had the video and nothing could be done. Call the cops and nothing happens. I just told them to can the EBT. It has made my budget tighter for a few years but whatever.
If something was STOLEN from you its the cops job, not the banks
@@jonathanbarnett7897 In the UK it's up to the BANK if someone has got your details from somewhere. They have to remove the charge from your account and THEY need to sort it out. Generally by recalling the funds from the receiving account (the chargeback).
That's a BS situation, in the UK, we report the transaction to the bank, they refund you and it's up to them to sort out. They just pull the money back from the receiving bank's account.
Nobody is trying to fix the root problems we have in this country. Everyone is trying to make enough money so that the problems don't apply to them anymore.
Or on the worst side work the system for money they are not deserving of so they can be a problem for others to deal with.
The root problem is fiat currency.
@@rightsdontcomewithpermits7073 what does a FIAT have to do with the processing fees? 🤔
@@caseysmith544 there would never be so much credit floating aroind if we would have sound money.
No credit no fees.
Well thats how you deal with problems waiting on laws to change or for someone to help you is foolish
Makes you wonder who is really pushing for a cashless society....
It's also super convenient. I'll push for it. If we can just do it via blockchain or what not with no fee.
@@TheChcam problem is the block chain has fees too
@@matthewpepperl bet there is a way around it with some sort of thing idk just spit balling here
@@TheChcam "Sorry citizen, we have determined you havent been quite antiracist enough this past week, and have disabled you FedPay from any further food purchases for the week. - The Government." Still wanting to push for it now?
@Technaci0us silly guy, i never said anything about centralized currency. Plus, i always offer cash discounts, i want more trade work in the world tbh.
It’s insane how they always try to make the small businesses seem like the bad guy and make it seem like it’s all there fault even though when you actually look into it you see all the extra fees that these huge companies are putting on small businesses. It’s so ridiculous and they have the balls to push blame off onto small businesses. I saw a small business actually have the credit card fee on the receipt so customers knew what the fees where that the credit card company is charging them just like the taxes are on the receipt. He said it helped a lot for him to show how it wasn’t just them charging more.
We need to always fight against this, otherwise all those pressure to us are only getting higher
Monopolies can’t monopolize if they have competition
seeeee the thing is tho, those LARGE MULTI NATIONAL CORPORATIONS. do legal loopdy loops and loop holes to be treated the exact same as those small businesses.
because those at the top do whatever they want and write the rules in their own favor... elected officials do not represent the people that elected them, they tell you just enough of what you want to hear to get you to vote for them.
because, they don't have legal department that why?
Discount for using cash.
You would think this would violate some antitrust law somewhere, but more and more it looks like banks and corporations are above the law. And when they aren't above the law, they simply find a loophole to exploit. Sad days indeed.
Frankly, it needs to be law that all credit card or service fees should be added as a line item at the end of the transaction, just like taxes. And for that matter, break out gas taxes as a line item as well while we are at it.
It's the only logical outcome of having a government with institutionalized bribery called lobbying. Those with the most money rule the country.
@@classicalextremism
I would like to see that info on my receipt at the pay-at-the-pump convenience. But instead, I often have to walk inside the convenience store and request a receipt, because the stingy fuel pump refuses to give it to me. Poor maintenance, ever running out of receipt paper. Because apparently computers can not estimate when it is time for somebody to change the paper, and underpaid cashiers at convenience stores have no time to maintain anything.
There was a time in which "service stations" actually offered service, before they got all bought up by the corporate giants.
Some fuel stations charge more for credit card usage, but I try to avoid those, because I thought that they charge more anyhow. But some things I prefer to pay in cash, if it is some place that I don't normally shop at, or for small transactions. I don't think that my credit card info should be in thousands of corporate databases. What could possibly go wrong with everybody having that info?
Here’s the lesson: no amount of profit will *EVER* be enough for big companies. They will shift their costs onto everyone else while making record profits and still wail about how hard business is for them.
Out if all of this... The rampant unapologetic greed at alll of these major "companies" that game and play the market because they can for muh profit and screw the public annoys me the most.. just the arrogance alone.
The corrupt government sets the example by jacking up our taxes, and seemingly to be ever incapable of balancing a budget. So as usual, Democrats are to blame for just about everything.
I've noticed more and more small businesses taking e-transfers or cash as payments. Credit card companies are getting worse and worse, year over year.
It's very popular in Asia.
Where accepts e transfer?
Remember kids: you NEED to get a credit card to build good credit so that the banks will allow you to get a loan. But you also have to pay more now to get the privilege of the right to even ask for a loan. And good luck getting anything worth a damn like a car or home without the loan.
Fuck loans. Be smart enough and you won’t have to deal with loans.
@@XVXC-M8 good luck buying a house without a loan
@@XVXC-M8 it's easy to say that if you started saving when you were still young. not everybody had the support from their parents necessary to build up credit and assets before going out into the world. not trying to diss you or call you daddy's boy, I am personally only in the financial position I'm in because of the assistance and guidance of my parents.
@@XVXC-M8 If everyone else is getting a loan irresponsibly, prices will go up to the point that you probably can't afford not to get one. Housing is the ultimate example of this.
@@XVXC-M8 I'd love you to teach me how to be smarter than the housing markets obscene fucking growth that has created a cycle where the average consumer in my country pays upwards of 40% and in many cases, 50% of their income, on rent alone.
Please oh mighty wise fucking retard, teach me your ways.
Worked for a company that didn't accept credit cards for years, and after figuring out that we were loosing sales because of our cash only policy, we started accepting cards. Once we started accepting credit cards we adjusted our prices to include our transaction fees (sale, return and dispute). Today, over 99% of our customers pay with a credit card, and are paying a bit more for the privlege/benefit.
In our area there are also businesses, mostly restaurants, who won't accept credit cards, and post the policy prominently on the front door. I don't blame them, and the funny thing is the restaurants accepting only cash are always busy.
I legitimately wonder how people would feel if the government started punishing small businesses for passing on the cost of lighting and heating stores and restaurants to the customer. Because they do. If a business has a bill the customer pays for that bill so you make a profit. That's the entire point of being in business. If you're having to pay your own bills you're not making a profit. If you're not making a profit what's the point of being in business?
I use card bc of convienience, but i have much more respect for a business that is cash or crypto only. Maybe i should use cash more.
@@MamaMOB That's a bad example.
Ofc course you have to price everything into what you charge your customers, but customers can't decide to f with you by buying a bootle of 1$ water and putting 30$ on your electricity bill. You know damn well how much it costs to pay your running costs, meanwhile 30$ charge backs regardless of who actually f-ed up are BS.
You can't really calculate the risks. A group of angry Karens might very well end up organizing over social media to create chargebacks like that on a large scale to f with your small business.
People always gotta eat?🤷♀️
@@pebblepod30The barbershop I patronize is cash only. They always have customers waiting.
My local small town hardware store has a handwritted sign up for the extra percentage they charge on credit card transactions. The number of times they have had to cross off the old number to update their current fees necessitated an additional piece of paper above it. I want them to stick around as long as possible so I make every effort to pay with cash but when I inevitably have to swipe my card that extra 2.9% is still cheaper than the gas to drive an extra 20 miles to a big box store and I pay it happily.
Sounds like they are trying to keep their prices low. What a concept!
Let me point out that in Sri Lanka the governement intorduced a new system called LankaQR and LankaPay, a QR and payment system in which it directly connects with the central bank of Lanka, the bank provider and the merchant, essentially eliminating the middleman like VISA and Mastercard.
You should have seen the pushback to this day VISA is doing by mounting so many discounts and offers to try to murder the system into oblivion.
UPI in India did it too and Visa & MasterCard whined to their cronies in the US
this should be highlighted, this is brilliant
If the state apparatus were truly run like a business, it WOULD do things like this. In the US they lie, say they are going to run government like a business, and then sabatage state enterprise. They don't want state competition, and that's why they are so ideologically charged for capitalism and the private sector. Not that these things can't be useful, but that the primary motivator has nothing to do with your personal freedom, and language serves their selfish desires.
If capitalism, the private sector, and no government interference in the economy appeal to you, that still works towards monopoly interests, because you're justifying the fact that they won and deserve to win in perpetuity.
@@aravindkm2012 What were they going to do? Invade India? Cronies have no jurisdiction. Did I mention India has nukes.
I wouldn’t trust the Sri Lanka’s government they literally sold your major port to a communist country.
I love that the first thing he says "There's a fly, and I intend to kill it"...
That's how much some flies and mosquitoes get to your nerves...
In Australia it's legislated that a business can pass on card fees as a surcharge, provided it doesn't exceed actual costs.
"Businesses can charge a surcharge for paying by card, but the surcharge must not be more than what it costs the business to use that payment type."
I have never assumed it was the place of business being greedy when it came to card fees. I always thought the bank was being greedy.
Nope I don't agree I shouldn't be punished for the business and CC companies dispute that's between them and all this nonsense will do is make me not shop there
@@gokublack8342You're being punished either way. You just can't see it one way.
I would absolutely love to see challengers to VISA and other major card providers. The current masters of the field have stopped innovation and moved to the stage of finding ways to charge more for existing functionality.
We have one. It's called Bitcoin.
@@delimitnc Bitcoin transaction fees are around a dollar each.
I was just being an ass, my bad. Somebody always says "but bitcoin" in these conversations, and this time I figured I'd do it.
There's Revolut in Europe, maybe they will be eventually able to reach over ocean :). It's fairly young and so far not sh1t (I guess too small to be prick). Also BLIK in Poland that is also fresh enough to not be rotten yet
Every small business under these draconian and out-of-bounds requirements should join a class-action lawsuit to sue the pants off of Visa.
I work for a small business in Australia and we accept card payments through our bank directly. When setting up the EFTPOS machine there was an option to add the percentage fee on top automatically - we didn't choose it so I don't know exactly how it works but the bank did give us the option.
Having tried to truthfully file chargebacks on my cards (items didn't show up or literally wasn't as ordered and the company refused to refund) I can tell you they legitimately make it annoying at times and then lock you out for that transaction until you have to call someone anyways because you didn't press the right prompt when none of them fit your situation in the first place.
That being said, it's still easier usually. I wish most people would take it seriously when they file a charge back, but that is never going to happen.
Also charging the business $25 or so for the privilege of getting a chargeback, win or lose, is stupid. Force whoever loses yo pay that if they really want that. It would deter people from filing fraudulent chargebacks.
The right of the people to keep and bear Arms (and glass cleaners), shall not be infringed.
Related note: there's actually a proposal going around in Congress to cap credit card interchange fees. The way I heard about it? An astroturfing campaign. The credit card companies are telling people that they'll lose their rewards points if they don't get to steamroll businesses on swipe fees. This is absolutely stupid because the 2% rewards you get come out of one of the following:
1. Paying more than you get on the actual product
2. Poor people who don't get the high-end card with 2% rewards
3. People who pay cash at businesses that don't offer cash pricing
In other words, it's entirely bullshit dollars, ala a mobile game, designed to make it hard to tell you're being ripped off. Credit card companies are absolute champions at obfuscating the cost of their existence, even moreso than tech platform companies.
capping fees is bad, the best solution is to allow merchants to charge an additional fee based on the payment method a customer chooses, so a customer can see ACH transfers, debit, and cash are cheaper than credit cards.
The CC companies don't want small businesses charging customers for charge-backs or for the increasing fees for purchases... because that money is not funneling into the CC company.
@@g7297 Capping fees may be bad, but your proposed alternative is already off the table. There already was an antitrust lawsuit about swipe fees and SCOTUS sided with the credit card companies.
So long as the credit card companies have the power to obfuscate and defraud customers about the cost of their payment method then there needs to be a cap.
@@MonkeyJedi99 Except it is. They get 3%-5% of whatever additional fees the small business charges.
@@uzlonewolf But they want it ALL!
When I was younger, most businesses had signs stating that there was a discount for using cash. As explained to me it was either illegal, or against agreement to charge more for using a credit or debit card. There are 2 gas stations near me that still do that, and their net profits were actually higher than other stations in the areal.
My business is hanging on by a thread and I'm scared to increase my prices because I'm worried I'll lose the remaining customers I have after all this inflation. I feel like I'm stuck between the rock of sucking it up and the hard place of losing even more customers. Damned if I do and damned if I don't
What is your business? When I saw your username I thought "hey, I want to help this guy", so what can you tell me heavy metal elf? And I mean it, what do you do and what do you think is the problem, I think we can figure out something.
@@simonspacek3670 I do lawn care. My company has hemmoraged customers since last July. People don't want to pay bills and when I discontinue service they leave negative reviews. I haven't raised prices in years. At first, I held prices steady through covid in 2020 and 2021 and had plenty of work. I didn't want to over burden people while we were all struggling. I waived late fees and let people slide for several months on past due invoices since times were hard. Last year I started cracking down, both because lock down was over and I needed to get the money flowing regularly.
At this point, I'm down from about 120 weekly clients to something like 20 - 30, I have around $20,000 in unpaid invoices from people just stiffing me and hurting for money enough that I'm on the edge of folding. I need to raise prices by probably at least 20% but I've already had such an exodus of customers, I am worried that the cost increase will drive the last of them away. I'm already not really pulling in enough to pay my bills, so it looks like the end of the line.
Remember when people still used cash? That was expensive shit! Just replacing the bills due to wear and tear was a costly affair, but add on security transports, safes, robberies, etc, money was expensive - and the banks had to cover the costs. Then with the appearance of cards, suddenly I had to pay a yearly fee for the privilege of using a card and making sure they don't need to deal with cash any more. My card was cheaper than the cash, but they still billed me for it; that didn't seem fair. And then they charged the business too. They have been double dipping ever since.
Fuck us for saving them money I guess. We should have lined the bankers up against a wall in the 90s.
And of course an extra fee for having not been helped by a teller, too.
This is he answer I was looking for, people forget how much extra money was spent for cash. Counting the registers, managers double checking the counts, doing bank runs, increased liability from being at risk of being robbed.
I think we missed that other opportunity in 2008-2009. Unfortunately, I believe we'll get another chance sooner than later when one of the overburdened, overpriced areas goes bust. Will it be housing, loans, tech, insurance....? Who knows, but I expect the next one to be at least as big as the Dot-com collapse, if not the burst housing bubble....if not actually another housing bubble burst. We need big monopolies out of our government.
They haven't stopped.
Visa doesn't want the customers to see the percentage for the same reason many world governments don't want sales tax to be broken out separately on the receipt. Because "out of sight, out of mind".
And visa desperately needs to have price parity with cash if they are going to continue with the push for a cashless society.
I was so excited to see my local restaurants start offering "cash prices". I make it a point to pay them in cash.
As a small business myself, I have always passed along the percentage to my customers, and they never once complain. (it helps that most of them are businesses too, so they know what's up)
your just another thief. nickel and dime the customer so you dont have to pay anything
We know what sales tax we pay. When you go to shop here, you see big number, that is the end price. Next to it you can see either 10% or 21%, that is sales tax. And next to it is another smaller number, that is the price without tax. (And I know that 21% is damn high)
But if you add those "big" numbers together in your head (or use calculator), you will get the exact number of money you have to pay at the till.
Sales tax in the US is by the states, and varies for each state. In fact, it goes even further down to the county level. It is listed on our receipts, and depending on the store(usually grocery stores in my state), gets further broken down. 2% for food, 7%(in my county) for non-food.
Except that most countries who have the VAT included in the price also break down what part of it is tax. It's just more convenient to know the full price up-front instead of getting a surprise when you're at the checkout.
My favorite part of this channel are the behind the scenes stories. For instance, watching one of the cats try to find a comfortable place to sit and Louis preventing them from stepping on his keyboard, or in this case, watching Louis murder a fly.
If it is a horse fly, those things take a piece of flesh when they bite, hurts like hell, I would not be in the same room as one 😂
@@chrisreynolds352 Wow horse flies bite people (and not only annoy)?!
We stopped taking credit cards due to the costs. We had customers putting monthly invoice of up to $12 on cards, which we reversed the charges on. That went away. We forced them to ACH or paper checks. We aren't willing to eat almost $20k per year in CC charges.
Preach it! As an online service provider, I have no choice but to accept electronic payments. I love my business customers that insist on paying by check - I actually welcome it. I'd allow everyone to pay by check, because I'd rather process hundreds of checks manually than deal with the BS from the credit card companies and PayPal. When I get hit with a chargeback by an angry customer who had their service terminated for spamming, it really gets under my skin because now I have to prove theft of service AND I have to pay massive fees on top of it! I don't charge surcharges because I believe in up-front pricing, but I'm totally for raising prices and adding a "Screw big finance" discount to offline payment methods.
Checks are going by the wayside rapidly, the only thing I ever use a check for any more is the water bill. Checks bounce, they are also forged and stolen. If someone has to MAIL a check like the old days then you have to find an envelope and a stamp, fill it out, put it together, drop it in the mailbox and wait several days for it to arrive and a couple more to "clear"
The stamp costs more money every year, I don't bother with the US Mail except on very rare instances, so I dont buy and store stamps, which means if I need one I have to make a special trp to the post office to get one. Yes, the supermarket has some stams, but you have to pay for them with cash separately, same for lottery tickets, so I get paid via electronic deposit, so I don't even cash a paycheck any more and havent in over 2 years, so I rarely ever see cash
Consider accepting wire for large sums. Not sure how small sums should work.
@@ellenorbjornsdottir1166 Services like Zelle would work for smaller sums. Your bank may still take a tiny bit but it's a fraction of what the credit card companies charge.
@@ellenorbjornsdottir1166 COD is still a thing.
Is there a reason you can't use Zelle?
The worst part for me about these chargebacks is the fact that the customer even gets their postage back too. Not only do we have to eat the fees and pay "fines" for chargebacks, we also eat the cost of postage every time we ship something to a customer whether or not we can prove we sent their order or returned their device. It's things like these which are making me want to switch to bank transfers only. Of course that adds an inconvenience to the customer too 🙄
Not to mention lots of people aren't comfortable with that because if they get screwed by the seller it's a major problem to try and get that money back. Charge backs are important for customers to feel safe buying things online, but then you have these dill weeds ruining it by abusing it.
U guys wanted masks and heart attack shots and the banks to rule you forever so you deserve the consequences
Europe has a better deal with how their EFT system is set up too (much easier and less limited), but we can't have something nice like that in the U.S. because the politicians here are bought out by all the grifters in the the financial services industry. They have to get their cut for doing practically nothing.
@pauljs75 oh of course they do something, don't be mean! It's hard work making false promises and counting all that extra money 💰 🤑 🤣
"build your credit" they said...
"go to college" they said...
i don't think our grandparents were as wise to what is going on as they thought.
Some of the uprise of companies like PayPal are due to businesses who refused cash during the pandemic. In California, some cities even had put it into law.
Credit card companies should be tracking fraudulent chargebacks and charge the cardholder when they put in frivolous chargebacks. My restaurant stopped taking orders from people who consistently filed chargebacks to the food delivery service. If they want free food, they will need to find a different place.
your restaurant keeps fucking people over
This has been the norm WAY before COVID.
Unfortunately, here in the UK, it is outright illegal to charge extra fees when taking payments by card. This is an EU-wide law from 2018 which is also still in effect in most of Europe. The cost of processing card payments is therefore distributed by higher overall costs, including those paying cash who do not use the payment processors' networks. It seems like a racket that VISA and Mastercard get this privilege enshrined in law.
That was done to counter-balance the heavy restriction on credit cards the EU and incorporated UK law, it is also to discourage people offering to cut the VAT on untraceable cash payments.
VAT = Value Added Tax (or just think of it as... Tax)
Just have a cash discount
@@NadeemAhmed-nv2br This is covered under the same law and is explicitly illegal.
@@mystery_pond including some form of cashback or points (which actually can be exchange for cash)?
I agree 1000%. When is enough PROFIT enough? It's PURE CORPORATE GREED & it's never enough.
When the us supreme court decrees that the only responsability of a company is not only to their shareholder.
If I'm not mistaken here in Canada they recently passed a law that says Merchants have the right to pass on the costs. So regardless of what's written in the credit cards terms of use or whatever, the law supersedes it
That is correct. Completely legal in Canada. Notably, cell phone providers and utility companies now charge a surcharge to pay by credit card.
My problem with this whole situation is that everyone always funnels it down to the consumer, the individual consumer doesn't have infinite money to pay for everything that everyone running a business doesn't want to pay (service fees for convenient payment methods, tips to prop up employee salaries, whatever) especially these days. Fight the people turning the screws on you, don't just pass the hardship on to someone else.
Great subject. As a customer, I was unaware of all this risk by taking cards. One thing I think everyone should be aware of and likely linked to this subject is if you have a major job (tree service, lawn care, home repairs, auto repair).. Inquire on potential cash price. I find I get 10-15% discount using cash in most cases. Of course I also generally do not pay in full until the job is done. Normally large jobs require 1/3 to 1/2 up front.
how about they pay their own bills
@@casparhughey5651 Money management fees can often surpass profits. When I was selling on Ebay, my markup was just over 20%. Between PayPal and Ebay, they took around 16% of sales, leaving only 4% profit, not to mention chargebacks. I could actually offer a 20% discount if someone paid with crypto.
If you can't charge people for using a credit card, just give them a 3% discount for using any method of payment that is NOT a credit card. You'll still lose less than with the 3.4% fees and at least you know that the 3% is staying in a happy customer's wallet, instead of going to a bunch of greedy billionaires.
Checks can be just as bad too sadly. Cash is really the only real one that makes sense.
@@adr2t just for clarification: I live the Netherlands, my business is located here and I mostly have clients within the EU. We mostly use debit cards instead of credit cards for in-store purchases. Cash is still an option, although it's becoming less common. I don't think checks are accepted in NL anymore. If I remember correctly those were phased out decades ago.
@@creativeheadroom Yea the US is vastly different than the EU laws - so this video might not really relate to you. I wish honestly we had some of their laws in place.
@@creativeheadroom card skimming is a serious issue here in the States. A few years back I lost all of my money to a skimmer and didn't have two pennies to rub together for nearly two weeks until I got paid. That was the thing that got me to move over to using the credit card as my primary choice for transactions.
Many of the businesses where I live provide such a discount to their customers. And guess which method of payment I see those businesses receiving instead of credit cards as a result.....Especially at the gas stations that provide that discount! In this day and age where prices have skyrocketed, every cent a person can save is a compulsion to use cash versus card.......
Those minimum charge things piss me off. A long time ago, my friend and I went to a restaurant for dim sum. We had been to that restaurant many times. The bill came to something like $19.67. I handed my credit card over and the waitress said "Sorry, minimum is $20" and walked away. (You can tell this was a long time ago because dim sum for two was less than $20.) I had never heard of this rule, it had never been imposed before, and they had no sign informing customers of the rule. Well, I didn't have $20 cash and neither did my friend. So, I had to leave the restaurant while my friend stayed behind, go look for a cash machine, get cash, and come back and pay, all because I was a few cents short of their magic number, and would have been well over after the tip. Even though I had been a repeat customer for years, I never went back there. Still pisses me off.
I will always support you Louis. I’ve been here since 2016. You are doing the lord’s work bringing the information you bring to everyone. Thank you sir.
Anyone remembers when we had 5-10% discount when paying with cash? Honestly didn't know VISA/other payment processors said they can't do that, so another reason to hate them. Bring back cash!!!
They can and still can do that. They're not allowed to charge extra. It's the wording that matters.
@@jerwongBusinesses in my area do both.
Interesting that as soon as credit cards have become pretty much a monopoly they decide to start doing this. Kinda makes the point it's time to find new types of payment processing
this is one of the reasons for using crypto. But that bridge was burned a while ago by scammers and whatnot so I guess we need something different again
Or utilize the old ones we already have...
@@joannleichliter4308 cash does not work to pay stuff online
@@marcogenovesi8570 Too true, alas.
@@marcogenovesi8570I don't think the solution to moving away from funny money is a new form of funny money. Then again, isn't all currency funny money at the end of the day?
I fully agree and I dearly love your fight for us, the small businesses, the independants, the humble entrepreneurs. We - the small ones - are essential for society. The big ones lost their soul - long ago.
It used to be the case for years that you could not charge a surcharge for years. I remember years ago I was at a Baskin Robbins and they charged a surcharged which was against the Visa Merchant agreement. I called Visa and Dunkin Donuts.
If you have a problem with the fees either accept only cash or debit cards only and not credit cards.
They are using the credit card fees as a way to make free money. Most are treating debit cards as credit cards with the fees. You can still report them
Two things: 1) Only the owner of a business should have a say in their pricing models (obviously within the framework of applicable laws, if there are any). 2) in cases of disputes over credit card charges, any fee for dealing with the matter demanded by the credit card company should be paid by the party in the wrong.
I would go so far as to say the owner should even be allowed to price gouge, as long as he understands the social implications of being considered a target by looters the next time there is unrest on that street.
@@HedgehogsAreBetterThanYou Visa should be able to decide their pricing models without interference FROM OTHER BUSINESSES (statement 1). I stand by that. However, defending that right does not prevent me from disagreeing with an existing pricing model and suggesting "improvements" (statement 2). It's like defending someone's right of free speech while also disagreeing with what they are saying. It's not a contradiction at all.
There should be no framework of laws in pricing models. Fixing prices is a communist thing.
I disagree, any charges relating to resolving a dispute should be the cost of doing business for the CC companies.
They want credit cards to look just as good as cash (or better), and still make a nice profit, the only way they can do that is if they hide the real costs from customers. These companies can burn in hell
Poor hell. What did it do to deserve this?
I agree with everything Louis said and for that reason, I've started carrying cash so I can pay less at the places that offer cash discounts. I also ask small businesses if they offer a cash discount and when they don't, I happily use my credit card to get 2% cash back.
Two reasons I use cards instead of cash: I hate change in my pocket and the very good cashbacks some cards offer.
As a frequent credit card user, I completely agree on having to pay extra if the credit card company make it more expensive for the businesses to accept it. For so long I was kept in ignorance about the fees that businesses have to incurr in if they want to accept credit cards, and now I understand that credit card companies want to keep it that way. Screw them, screw the man in the middle.
just use cash. problem solved.
@tissuepaper9962 there are no solutions only trade-offs
@@ipeteagles exchanging privacy for convenience isn't a "trade-off". it's "getting fucked in the ass".
Someone needs to make a card that allows businesses to pass on the upkeep fees. I'd use it. Especially if it's like a credit union, so the fees just cover operating costs.
Credit card companies catered to businesses that were too lazy or risk averse to run their own in-house credit programs. You get what you ask for by allowing middle men into your transactions willingly.
Here is something you may not know about the EU, in the EU it is illegal to surcharge to use card payment. All a merchant can do here is stop receiving card payments. Regulators have a huge incentive to try to force us all to use credit cards so that they can gather more data about our spending more easily.
Please don't forget the fact, that the EU limits the fees a credit card company can charge the merchant to 0,3 percent in local businesses and 1,5 percent in online transactions. So the situation is quite a bit different to the US.
Yeah but the card companies are also regulated to charge a fixed percentage of the transaction. So this problem doesnt exist to begin with. EU is way more regulated that the US but their regulations tend to be more fair and cover everyone while the US always favors big corporations over small businesses and individuals (side effect of having legal bribing aka lobbying)
Cash is king, I always pay with cash
This is also the law in many places. EU isn't the only one.
So have a cash/cheque discount, whereas card users pay the list price?
It's not a surcharge.
So many people are asleep and do not realize they are walking themselves into their own demise by allowing these types of actions to happen.
There are many industries that have never allowed credit card purchases for precisely these reasons. If they keep going further and further with this crap they're just gonna have more and more businesses refusing to accept credit card payments
Anyone who files a false chargeback should be publicly outed.
Absolutely fine with this.
In Florida, decades ago, the government made it illegal to add any cost to credit card users. However, the state itself had a 3% service fee for using a credit card. At the same time the card companies themselves threatened to drop us if we charged any fees. We ignored them all and just offered a discount for paying cash. Got a few calls from State Attorney and the card companies. We explained we had signs posted that clearly said there was a cash discount and not any extra charges, so they dropped it. Now Florida has revoked that law and I see many places are doing the surcharge or discount depending on each places choice. I do not like card companies and found them to be so dishonest in their dealings.
fucking your customers.........
Here in Australia cafes and restaurents everywhere plus other stores have adopted credit card surcharges, weekend surcharges, public holiday surcharges, splitting bills surcharge.. it's insane..
It was legislated in Australia that businesses can charge fair fees. Now my card terminal automatically adds the fees that I choose to the appropriate card type used.
Check/savings-account transactions I do free, Visa is 1% and Amex 1.5% that covers the actual cost I'm charged & slightly more. They also legislated how much the banks can charge us in fee's, so our fee's are low.
As a small business owner I can say this definitely contributes to the reason why you're seeing so many businesses now asking for tips at the checkout screen. When I first became self-employed 15 years ago, people used to write checks or pay cash the majority of the time. That's no longer the case. Even small companies like mine with one or two employees pay thousands of dollars a year to process credit card transactions. Credit card companies don't allow you to pass the processing fee onto the customer, but they do allow you the option to ask for a tip. I personally don't expect a 10 or 20% tip. I just want enough to cover what Square is going to charge me. It's too bad they don't allow custom text on the tipping screen to explain this.
I only use cash so I don't care, I hate banks and cards, never had one and never will and if we are forced to then I will be forced to leave
@@TruthLives-ee6sf I moved to Colombia, South America. Most people have never had a credit card. Probably 80% of business is done in cash, and the government can't track and tax everyone.
We get taxed on our income, then taxed on the value of the product we're buying, then forced to spend over a certain amount because "it's not worth it for you" if you allow small purchases on card and now you want to pass on the extra fees or demand a tip to "cover it" because you chose to own a business?
If that's the case, then you can lower the price of the item I'm buying by the tax I had to pay on my earnings as well as whatever tax the purchase will take. Why should we pay tax if you won't pay the costs and fees of doing business?
@@Reinforce_Zweithey would just raise the prices of everything then so you can't tell. Would you rather have that?
@@Reinforce_Zwei I'm not sure I follow your logic, but keep in mind you're talking to a one man owner operator business, so it's not like sacrificing what little profitability I have is even an option. If you're implying that over taxation is a burden to customers just as much as it is to small businesses, I agree wholeheartedly, but I don't think that's what you're getting at.
Used to own a small service Tech business. We got contracted to work on hot tubs. We didn't accept card for a good while because we weren't making a whole lot to begin with and the 3-5% fees add up QUICK to your lost income.
Problem with being a traveling, contracted tech is that you don't always have the luxury of advertising cash or check only. Not only that but you'd honestly be surprised how many of the richer type are cashless, or even checkless, so you're essentially either losing business or inconveniencing them which makes you look bad. Basically we had to start accepting card, and eventually we had no choice but to start charging extra for it, which also makes us look bad.
Ultimately that's what this is about. Making smaller businesses look bad while these card companies shift the blame elsewhere. They have no right to fine or audit YOUR business over their bad practices. It makes no sense and this tomato tamato shit doesn't help either. Just another way to slowly kill off small business with asinine fees.
5:47 That little horsefly-dedicated timestamp.
The cut immediately after the few sprays gets me everytime xD
Bless!
I think this is unique to America tbh. Chargebacks in Australia have a heavy burden of proof required for the customer to even submit a chargeback, and a heavy annoyance factor in terms of waiting an hour on hold and then getting someone who doesn't actually give a shit.
A lot of businesses are still hitting us with absurd credit and debit card fees though.
I was thinking the same thing. I have not heard of this problem at all in Europe.
Here in Sweden people and businesses, small and large alike, are increasingly using the nationwide _Swish_ app, which is not connected to any of the CC companies, but the Swedish banks. No fees for personal accounts (which small businesses typically also use).
And the government wants us to stop using cash. I've always carried cash, but I'm carrying more now.
The current crop of cashiers can't make changes quickly or accurately, let alone both.
@@tactileslut Some do some don't ... I bet companies refusing to use credit cards because of this rule of theirs would just cause the company to struggle too.
Here in Canada there was a class action lawsuit against the credit issuers and merchants won the right to add fees for CC purchases.
While the terms of service has always disallowed charging extra to use cards, stores here in the States get around it, by giving a discount for using cash. You will often see gas prices at a store with a cash price and a higher card price.
Ye ol "convenience fee"
@@littlepeonif I recall correctly, it's because gasoline is a daily traded commodity, they're not supposed to charge "credit prices" on goods in the store, only the gasoline at the pump.
I was gonna say, the pay terminals here even have a menu option to display "You will be charged a $__.__ for using a card" message that the user has to accept/deny.
@@CrimsonDoveKarting I've no knowledge of a "commodity rule" I just mentioned it because you can see gas prices rotating on big signs outside the stores and they specifically mention CC-price and Cash price. If you go in the stores, you will see that they don't charge a fee for credit cards, they just give a discount for paying cash! A clever loophole, if I ever saw one!
Imagine the days when banks were paying you for you allowing them storing your money. It is like you letting them take a loan from you and then returning it back to you with some percentage benefits.
In Holland (EU), we almost no one had a credit card, but many do have loans/morgage. We do have a company called BKR who registrates everyones debts. If you are too often/to long in the wrong, they put you for 5 years in the blacklist. Afterwards you are ok again. For us there is no reason for us to pay everything with a credit card, just to prove you are capable paying your bills 😂
This is interesting considering they raise their customer's interest rates whenever their cost goes up
I loved hearing Louis explain how credit card transactions work and then abruptly switches to trying to kill that fly 😂
The fly was working for Visa
Makes me wonder if these companies are just trying to grasp every last dime they can before CBDC comes and completely upends their business model. In turn their bad behavior is going to lead people to ask for CBDC.
People like to talk about "late stage capitalism" a lot. But this is what it actually looks like. Companies have run out of places to add value, but shareholders continue to demand increasing profits. If you can't attract new customers and can't convince existing customers to use your service more, the only option remaining is to increase prices. You can do that transparently (like Samsung raising prices) or deceptively (like every financial services company). It's not like there isn't competition, the whole industry has reached the same conclusion. I fully support a market economy, but once companies like these reach the scale they've reached, they're no longer merchants; they're infrastructure providers and they need to be heavily regulated and price controlled.
This is corporate socialism, and usury. You cannot live with it, and the only thing you can do is lie about the numbers until you get caught, or everything burns to the ground, like China.
If people did this on a large scale to the big faceless companies, this would all be stopped pretty quick.
Credit card companies don't want small businesses to be transparent to their customers because the small businesses shield them from their scummy practices. Small businesses take the brunt of customer frustration and financial loss while the CC companies keep making record profits.
Technically illegal under anti-steering laws. We’ve been here before.
It is hysterical how soothing and professional you sound murdering a Fly. And thank you for the great information.
Thanks Lou and I agree with your reasoning, well done.
I applaud visa for attempting to protect customers, but visa IS the problem.
I'm ok with companies adding processing costs for use of credit cards with fee structures like this, but this MUST be made clear and explicit to the customer before the purchase process begins. This could be akin to the clear and conspicuously placed '$5.00 minimum purchase for credit cards' signs that we saw back in the day.
Well as told in the video, visa is making telling the customer beforehand harder than ever, cuz if u do put a sign for that, u are incriminating urself
This signage and warning IS required by VISA etc
@@zer0legend109telling people there’s a minimum purchase price has been going on forever. Now we just know why, plus it’s not in violation, because they never SAID why, it was just word of mouth WHY.
I almost paid for my car excise tax at my town office by card but I asked them last second if they have a CC fee of which she said yes. They weren't even going to tell me! It's BS that we have to pay their expenses.
@@grafando I mean, the reality is you're paying their expense one way or another.
This reminds me of my favourite gas station: When the war started and oil prices where exploding here in Germany they put the following on the top of the receipt you were getting after refueling:
X% (I don't remember how much anymore but it was more than half) of what you paid for your gas are state taxes - without them you would've only needed to pay Y
Fortunately the prices here are down again - not what they were 2020 when it was really cheap, but they're about the same as summer 2019 prices - at least for the cheapest type of gas, which is the one I always get (e10 which is 95 octane gas with 10% ethanol) - diesel is still pretty expensive because lots of it was produced in Russia
Many of our local places either have an extra charge for cards, or they advertise a cash discount. I don't blame them since they are running such low volume and tight margins. Some of the local bars are even cash only and have an atm inside.
Do you remember a time when things got cheaper as time and technology marched on? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
When I pay my Sewer bill online at my municipality, there is a separate fee for using a CC. That fee (around $5.95) is a separate line item on the CC statement. I think that is because you can deduct it off your state taxes.
In Australia we are allowed to add a surcharge on card transactions providing it doesn't exceed the actual cost to us.. There is now talk of adding a fee for cash payments because there are so few cash transactions, its costing too much to transport and manage cash. Australia will be the first cashless society. That's where total control will begin
Finally! Sick of these fees being charged at the gas station!
I would be fine with stores charging a (reasonable!) CC surcharge, as long as it is clearly indicated.
My city actually charges a processing for online payments, so for example our water bill is usually an extra 4 dollars to pay online or in person via card if we do it that way. I feel like City Hall having to pass on fees to constituents like this is extremely absurd. Like how the hell did we get to this point?
Governments have a difficult choice. They generally have to charge a set amount for things by law. So if you're traffic ticket is $75 there is no way to hide the charge for the credit card because the gov is mandated to collect a set amount and the convenience fee is charged to the consumer. It is pretty bad when the consumer has no choice except to pay by card.
@@KabobHope Thankfully ours accepts checks and cash if we go to the courthouse.
@@Calvin_Coolage I went this week for an errand to a state government dept. No cash, no personal checks. Money orders and credit (and probably debit) were only accepted. There was, of course, a service charge (convenience fee) for credit.
I got a fishing license online this week too. The license was $4 and the CC fee was $5.
@@KabobHope If you treat people badly enough long enough they will demand it.
@@RockinRobbins13government has treated people like crap for decades and the majority continue to vote for more of it. I’m convinced there are a lot more BDSM dungeons out there than anyone realizes, considering how much people like to be abused.
Thanks for reporting on this .
I think I mentioned this on your last rant about charges.
I'm in Oz so our regulations are different. I've noticed some of the smaller shops I go to have signs up indicating more for paying by card. There was an advertising campaign here encouraging people to not slow the queue down by going through your change, I think it was called "Tap and Go" but I rarely see ads so I'm not 100% on that, but that was the sentiment. I remember seeing signs for minimum transaction to pay electronically but I don't recall seeing them for a while now, I guess they'll make a return soon.
Talking to the businesses some of them don't care because, "we've got a pretty good deal," but they're part of a chain of stores so they negotiated as a group, the sole traders don't have that option. 😔
Also during the start of the pandemic there was a lot of concern that you could catch CV19 from handling cash, so some stores stopped accepting cash and it was generally discouraged. Roll on a few years and the situation has changed, now there's a possible recession, higher interest rates (so the banks are making more already) and many small businesses are struggling to stay in business.
I don't want them to close so I've tried to buy more often, without screwing myself, and I've also gone back to carrying cash so the banks don't screw them over as much.
If I get mugged I might regret it, I'll reconsider if that happens, I don't think it's likely but people are being pushed into shitty situations.😑
TLDR: I'm happy to go back to using cash to help small businesses keep operating, fuck the greedy banking/transaction industry.
we need more people doing what you do.
Being a commit mouthpiece? Nah, he can eff off
in my country (Brazil) there is a law now that states you can charge different prices based on different payment methods. One of the few things that make sense to me in this country.
I used to work in a small custom computer shop and we did just a 3% cash discount, we never got any crap for it but this was in 2018-19 and I think they had some weird term back then that said if you called it a cash discount and not a credit card fee it was perfectly fine 🤣
I reminds me of this old joke "it is horrible when sportsman drinks and smokes, but it is amazing when smoker and drinker sports."
Or recent event from our country, it is of course illegal to give large sum of money to a politician, but it is completely legal to buy a painting from that politician for any amount.
Gas stations around me were the first to start doing this. It was against the agreements for them to say they are charging fees if you use a credit card... So they said the cheaper price was the "cash discount price" and the higher price they charge for using a credit card was the actual price. So businesses should start doing this... Just charge more for a credit card and say that is the real price and a cheaper price is a cash discount price...
I don't know what to do about this.
I run an store online selling hand made stuff and it's not like we can do CoD or cash. This is immensely frustrating because like- this keeps happening. Agh
Yeah, pass it along to the consumers...what's new?
Heads should surely roll in the revolution.
As a customer, I never cared about having to pay the fee. I understood that accepting credit cards is expensive, so it wasn't a big deal to me.
You want to hear how credit cards screw you even more. I'm from Australia and when visiting Canada, I was charged incorrectly at the hotel. As I review the built, I notice this and ask for a refund of the difference, this was a large built for a month staying in the hotel. Visa process the refund but not at the same rate, they say that exchange rate of paying was not the same exchange rate of the refund and manage to take AUD$ 200 from y card.
I am wondering what we are going do when like some European countries are announcing and Notes are made obsolete.