How is being anti-marvel an elderly take or Out of Touch? They peaked with the first Ironman. Marvel is already falling out of the cultural zeitgeist. Marvel movies will not be remembered in 5 years time. It’s delusional to think that any of their movies will stand the test of time. Lowest common denominator trash. Marvel movies have been terrible for the culture. Their worst offense is birthing an entire generation of corny, irony-obsessed, quip-obsessed writers that couldn’t write a sincere piece of dialogue to save their lives. Their so-called ‘directors’ barely get any creative freedom or say. It’s the same boring, paint by numbers slop every time. Scorsese is right. Also, let’s not forget Disney’s terrible business practices when it comes to movie theaters.
ur literally so out of touch it hurts. this guy makes movies for a living but you just walked up to him like "I did my own research and google says other movies are on in cinemas near me so ur wrong actually" as if 2 seconds of googling outweighs a literal lifetime of experience. he's clearly talking about the gradual encroachment of blockbuster movies on the medium as a whole, muscling out smaller independent works. there are 3 or 4 movies of this budget and scale a year nowadays, far more than ever before. it's definitely affecting people's perceptions of what a movie is the same way loads of people think video games are just COD and FIFA because that's all they see.
In all fairness, I'd say Keith Richards was probably including the Stones (or much of its library) in the category of cheap pop music. It was a little self-effacing.
I feel like part of the reason why people are like “ugh older music is so much better current music is trash” kind of overlooks the fact that “older music” has already had the time for the glut of unpopular stuff to be forgotten, leaving only the stuff folks like in their memory. On the other hand, current music is… current. There hasn’t been time to sort out the timeless stuff from the unpopular.
THIS. The 80s were literally a TERRIBLE time for mainstream music, as were the 70s. 99% of the popular songs you heard (over and over and over) on the radio were absolute garbage. It's only decades later that the handful of decent songs you only heard in underground clubs are being used in car and beer commercials. Folks talk about how great songs were "back in the day." Uh, no ... They was tons of crap out there that you literally couldn't escape between the radio, the mall, MTV, etc.
same with movies. we remember cassablance, and the good the bad and the ugly. no one remembers the 57 tarzan sequels they made in the 50s! (not a joke, they made 57 of those suckers, but cinema was never repitive until the mcu apparently!)
Yeah for anyone who actually gives a shit about music there's never been a better time! Back in my parents time the music you listened to was determined by what was playing on the radio and what you could find at a local music store, and if you didn't like what was popular at the time you were shit outta luck. My dad talks about how much he hated the 90s for music, because he can't stand grunge (neither can I lol. makes me feel like shit) but so much of what was getting played and replayed on the radio or that he could find in stores was grunge. Nowadays if I can't fucking stand pop music, just really wanna claw my ears out anytime I hear harry styles or taylor swift, I can just put my headphones in and listen to literally anything else. Like if you wanna hear music that sounds like van halen, you can just look up a reccomendation list and immediately find like 20 new bands that all sound like that. If I want to listen to a song that sounds like how getting mauled by a werewolf feels, I can find that. Literally anyone who thinks music is worse than it's ever been should learn how to use a computer because it is such a skill issue lol
They were disco queens and kings at the beggining ❤. Yet, I don't mind them or disco itself being called or categorized as part of pop, because really, pop music is just so broad. It genuinely makes you wonder of who are they talking about when they say those things, or if they even really know what they are talking about to begin with.
Abba is 100% trash. Just terrible. That said, a lot of pop is just fine. Swift is amazing, sheeran is good. Also nothing Brings me more Joy than eurovision every spring 😊
For the Marvel argument, Scorese worded it badly but he's kinda right. A lot of movies are escapism, which isn't bad, but anything run by Disney is so processed that the only artistic elements are like the writers, the acting, the filming and the CGI everything else. It's impressive what the Marvel actors are doing, because they're acting in front of a green screen holding motion tracking shells of props which get their true look from CGI, and there's very little left to go on. Disney and Marvel are, last time I checked, over-using CGI for all special effects because CGI is the last part of the film making process to be unionized, so they're easier to exploit and over-work. The props are CGI, the costumes are CGI, the sets are CGI, etc. As soon as there's an advancement with CGI all past CGI ends up losing quality by comparison, but really good practical effects (costuming, makeup, set building, prop making, etc) usually last longer. Yes, CGI is good for sets that get completely destroyed, costumes with too many moving parts or lights, and fake fires and such, but I feel like there needs to be more of a balance between practical effects and computer effects. I'm not saying no movies can be escapism, but Disney especially has been focused on live-action remakes, or sequels of already existing franchises. The writer's strike could've had an effect on that, but I honestly believe Disney hasn't made a new idea since before the strike. One of the reasons Barbie and Oppenheimer did so well, was probably because they were both new (to the screen) stories. There are enough writers in the world, and I'm sure a lot of them have new stories and maybe new worlds with characters we haven't seen yet. Like my issue with Marvel is the fact that Disney/Marvel are studios that are too big to not be coming up with new stories. There are probably hundreds of Marvel characters we haven't seen yet on screen, I think we can shift our focus away from the main like seven characters now, and just get anything new on screen. Scorese is kinda yelling at a cloud in this article, but let's try to avoid an entertainment monopoly forming.
Ehhhh, sorta but not quite. Scorsese has opened up about escapism ever since the 80s when he had to helm more commercial projects during the end of the New Hollywood era, he doesn't necessarily dislike escapism as a whole but more than he dislikes "escapism of incredible sentimentality" which he finds to be pandering and superficial, he doesn't have a preference for fantasy per se but he'd rather take Star Wars (or a good Western) over Rocky. It's kinda amazing how much he dislikes Rocky, so much so that we tend to forget that Raging Bull pretty much works as an anti-Rocky film. His point about the entertainment monopoly forming under Disney and everything else in the article is generally correct, however, his critique only goes so far as being anti-monopolistic as opposed to being anti-capitalistic, so it ends up stopping where it is, commending certain studio films while reprimanding others without delving into their fundamental problem. And reaping the benefits under the current system for as long as he has for undoubtedly noble and further good, you can understand how conflicted he is at identifying the core problem, even in his interviews in the early 90s he has been ambivalent about the funding system. On one hand, it's a profit-driven system that prioritizes money over art, on the other hand, it gives Scorsese the ability to take on enormous risks that pay off in tremendous ways. As someone who works in VFX (not in the US thou), it's a complicated problem I rarely see anyone outside the industry get it correctly. Most gets it right that Marvel abuses the sh*t out of their workers and overrun them with post-production fixes. The lack of unionization is a significant problem not only because of nightmare clients like Marvel but also because of messy corporal management and the mistreatment of overseas workers from within the contracted VFX houses (most VFX in Hollywood production aren't done in the U.S.). Effective unionization would only solve a fraction of the problem (though still a large fraction that we should inevitably push for) on a domestic scale since it'd require a global mobilization effort to also stop studios from treating their outsourced workers like crap. Also, there's this separation between CGI and VFX which as a compositor I generally dislike because of how misleading they're often used outside of work, but things like green screens which often help with set replacement or extensions have become a fundamental part of every commercial production. The assumptions that less VFX more practical effect = better or that digital effects are replacing practical ones are kind of dumbfounded (and often ignore the overlap in such departments). Marvel is infamously overused in post-fixes but practical and digital effects still go hand-in-hand in cases that don't, both Barbie and Top Gun contain thousands of VFX shots which they cowardly hide to promote their stuff as VFX-free. And computer-generated effects from 20 years ago still holds up when they're made with care and with proper R&D (Spiderman 3 workflow is still reused with minimal changes in No Way Home)
27 films (7 biopics), 17 documentaries, led the creation of the film foundation that has restored and perserved nearly 1,000 films from around the world. Scorsesse is not an Entertainer, he is a HISTORIAN and educator that has single handedly done more for every culture in the world than Disney will ever do in it's entire existence. Nobody will remember some interchangable youtuber with rambling generic drama content. Scorsesse will be remembered for a long time.
@revenge3265 lmao, whatever makes you feel better. All I did was state a few FACTS, and the only emotion was boredom because the only time I watch trash content is to literally combat insomnia. These attention vampires won't get much more than that from me, but you're welcome to continue with the free entertainment :)
I low key agree with Scorcese on the film industry. It’s not that people want to watch marvel what’s the problem it’s that the way films are made has changed so much. I started loving the marvel films but they got repetitive and empty so fast. I feel like traditional low brow art forms used to be more spontaneous, more scrappy, more fun. Now everything is polished and pretty boring. It’s a shame because there are so much more fun stories if they didn’t polish everything to the max to make it marketable for the highest amount of people.
At the same time the film industry is a business at the end of they day with workers who have families to feed. There are more people lining up to support franchises and sequels they know they won't even like then there are people supporting new and upcoming films. (Like how Jurassic World made millions from people going to hate watch it). I know in my own city there are always people lining up to see the next Marvel film, but few actually going to see local or non-franchise films. The same people will complain that the industry is overrun with sequels and remakes
@@seacutiecumberi have to agree here. as much as i understand how disappointing (for some) it can be that the film industry is just pumping out as many crowd-pleasers as they possibly can, i also understand that it’s the classic supply and demand. if another run of the mill sequel is making a lot more than an indie or standalone movie, then it only makes sense that that’s the route directors want to take. i’m very much in two minds about this subject
The big issue is that you can only milk something for so long until it runs dry. Less and less people are tuning in to watch these movies, while the budgets are extremely high. This means that you gotta fill a lot more seats just to break even. Mid budget films didn’t need as much box office revenue to make a profit. They also continued to make money through post theater sales. A lot of Marvel movies, with some standout exceptions, don’t have enough rewatch value to even think of making up the difference in lost theater revenue, even if people were still buying DVDs, simply because the budgets were so high and the marketing is so extensive.
The superhero stories that make it to the big screen are either bottom pf the barrell stuff or so stripped down and sterilized they cease to have any connection with the stories that inspired it. It sucks especially since the negative press then goes back to the comics and discourages even more people from reading.
@billbill6094 Exactly! Trying to convince people that comics are good and have value as a art form and that there's a reason why so many people like them and really there's a lot of diversity in the tone and themes of different series just please give them a chance, already sucks. The movies make it an even harder sell because people who've never read a comic see them as a worse version of the movies when they're completely different mediums who usually aim to tell very different stories. My favourite comics focus on interpersonal relationships and have very low stakes, but the movies usually can't tell that kind of story because of runtime, so everything has to be about saving the world. Sorry for the rant, I just needed to get that off my chest
I was a rock snob when I was a teenager. I thought only rock music was 'real' music and all pop was empty and dumb. Luckily I grew out of that and realized there's artists in every genre I like for a lot of different moods. It's awesome to have a broad scala of genres to listen to. :) Love that this dude never outgrew this 'only rock is real music' phase.
I think what makes it funny is that when he was young playing rock in the 60's and 70's, old people of that time probably didn't consider rock as music.
Same here! and a lot of my elitism was also pretty much validated by rock artists whom I admired and who said exactly the same thing >.< I did outgrow that and I also think that limiting belief that only rock is music kept me from discovering and enjoying other really great artists making amazing music.
this is why I love Elton John, he has such a feel for the current pulse of pop music, embraces new artists and helps boost their art to the mainstream. Super cool to have him featured on Gaga and Lil Nas X tracks and feature Britney Spears and Dua Lipa. He’s so smart to use his legacy and still reinvent
Marty knows his history, so he knows about the blockbuster period of cinema that lasted decades, way before Marvel. Cinema is cyclical, so what he's saying about the studios lately (specifically Disney) very much is what needs to be discussed regarding his words.
Martin Scorsese isn't wrong tbh Disney forces movie theaters to play their big releases to play in over 50% of their theaters and stay there for up to three weeks. Disney actually did try to push out The Hateful 8 when it came out in 2015 when The Force Awakens came out.
Yeah. And even tho some people are lucky enough to live near an area with a small or arthouse threatre like myself to view indie or non mainstream (Big blockbuster) releases regularly, or a threatre so big it basically plays everything, plenty of people have to drive far to see that stuff. Hell, there are some movies I have to take an hour long car ride to see them in the giant megaplex nowhere near my home. And I live close to a city area. I can't imagine someone living in a more rural place trying to see something like Inside staring Willem Dafoe, which came out this year and was awesome but barely released anywhere.
Scorsese is absolutely correct and im getting the feeling that youre unwilling to properly listen to his perspective. He started directing and getting recognition in the 70s, which was a great time for indie cinema in Hollywood. It was also where the makings of the modern blovkbuster started, with movies like the original Star Wars, but there was equal space for The Exorcist, Mean Streets, Dog Day Afternoon, Taxi Driver etc. He himself is only slightly younger than the entire artform of film and audiovisual art itself. He has seen some shit. His argument is not at all about lowbrow vs highbrow art, because most of his movies ARE lowbrow. His argument is about the future of cinema and Hollywood possibly being shaped by franchises and big budget mainstream films instead of singular and comolete visions of work. He is completely right about the fact that Marvel movies actively harm the reach and business of smaller films. Even a film like Everything Everywhere All At Once could not be seen in many countries and rural America because theatres could only run the latest Spiderman movie and had no space for it. This negatively impacts both audiences and filmmakers in the long run! His opinion cannot be compared to the ignorant and racist comments of some out of touch musician, because he ISNT out of touch. He has been in this industry for most of his lifetime. He is still an integral part of it. And even this late in his career after having gained international acclaim and relevance, he could not find a single person willing to finace The Irishman (a film being made in the most Scorcese genre of gangster crime films, starring some of the biggest, most notorious actors to have worked in this genre) until Netflix picked it up. If someone on the level of Martin Scorcese can face these problems, what about the newer filmmakers and artists? Also, what is this statement at 16:20 all about?? "I just want to move past art having to mean something"?? You can have your meaningless movies all you want, but those meaningless movies are blocking the accessibility and reach of movies that DO mean something and are made by people who actually ARE passionate about what theyre doing and what they have to say.
Adding more: it's not as simple as Marvel movies or franchise movies being the "popular genre" of our time. It's the fact that they're literally making up a chunk of what most audiences are getting to see in theatres. There has never been a time in history where audiences were bombarded with ONLY teen films, ONLY zombie films, ONLY westerns or romcoms or anything else. He has been through many, many decades where most movies being seen by general audiences were based on original stories and were intended to be stand alone ventures. Obviously it is jarring for him to see such a radical shift since then! He is not dismissing lowbrow cinema, one of the examples of movies that he considers to be cinema is literally the lowbrow masterpiece Some Like It Hot. And I think calling superhero movies not cinema and "theme park films" is correct as well. For example, i don't think the directors and writers of the latest Antman and Shazam/Black Adam or The Flash were thinking of these films as original works of art or had much personal investment in them. Because they're literally being made to prop up massive global franchises instead of conveying any original vision in terms of acting, special effects, or even costuming and makeup. The creators themselves would not classify these films as "art". Kevin Fiege and the Universal and Disney guys keep talking about their shows and films as "content" instead of art. This betrays their intent with this output. This isn't "cinema", these are products.
@@theholypopechodeii4367 i think for anything to classify as art it has to be made for creative reasons and not just monetary. I agree that all art isn't good and that bad art exists but even notoriously bad films like The Room were made as a creative outlet by people with a vision of what they wanted to achieve. If a film is being made as a product, hastily, for monetary reasons solely and with no care being given by anyone (producers, directors, writers, actors, fx and cg crew etc.) towards any creative expression or achievement of a creative vision then I do not think it counts as art. similarly, there is a difference between a content creator making TH-cam shorts about the latest celebrity or internet gossip without going in depth and a content creator like defunctland or anyone who makes video essays as a creative outlet instead of treating them solely as a source of income or clout
@@theholypopechodeii4367 the quality of the end result is one part of it. But I'm saying that art needs to be made by artists. Not people looking for a cheque. If you are engaging with a piece of art, you have to also in part engage with what the artist behind it has to say. If the artist meant to say nothing and only wanted to create another piece of "content" to be part of a factory assembly line-esque franchise, then there is no point in calling the end result "art". There are Marvel films like the GotG movies and even the Thor movies (including Kenneth Branagh ones) that can be called art and cinema but as a whole, the multiverse, cinematic universe style of filmmaking cannot be called "cinema" as it exists today.
Theaters not showing certain movies to make room for bigger blockbusters is pretty true and has happened. Theres a pretty well-known story that back in 2015 Quentin Tarantino had a deal with a theater to have a buncha showings his new movie that year, but Disney pushed his movie out of the theater to make way for The Force Awakens. They basically threatened the theater that they'd lose out on any future business with Disney if they didn't give up those showings of Tarantino's movie to make way for Star Wars. Now yeah, boohoo big director Quentin Tarantino didn't get as many showings of his movie as he was promised, but if even his movies can get treated that way what chance do smaller directors have? What power could they ever hold over big corporations and their 5 bajillion dollar blockbuster slop.
Exactly many people sit in their bubble and are blind to these things. Besides the only one we heard from was Tarantino because he is a big director and can afford to complain about marvel, because he has no plans to work for them. But most smaller director don't even have platform to complain or people won't hear them even if they do. And that is if they even voice their complains in the first place. Disney is a behemoth. Eventually they'd probably own every film company there is. Offending them means not getting hired for any project under disney. Heck with their reach they could even stop small directors from being hired by other companies, although I doubt they'd go out there to do that but it's still a possibility.
Scorsese made at least one good point, even if he missed the mark on others: movies that exist as elaborate advertising for other products (toys, lunch boxes, etc) are fundamentally different from movies that exist on their own. In fact, enough superhero and Disney movies have only netted even because of licensed product sales that it's hard to believe they would be worth the risk of investment, that so many of them would even exist, if they didn't function as ads. This changes the risk/ reward analysis for investors toward stories that wouldn't be made if they weren't tied to products in other markets. And on a psychological level for the audience, yeah, I think there's a good point there that the underlying affect on our consumption choices means we probably do experience those movies differently.
Yep and some of us are completely bored with everything being made to sell other things. Just make a good movie and stop spamming sequels. Hollywood ruins good film
There's also something to be said for original characters and storylines. I have seen most of the MCU material, but the issue I have with them is that the story arcs are practically all familiar from previous movies, TV shows or the most common comics themselves. I mean, shit. A great example is the "Sandman" franchise (which is actually DC, but same difference), which I love as graphic novels, thoroughly enjoy as audio books and now am kind of bored with when watching the show, even with the acting and production being great. And no, those minor changes made at each iteration aren't enough, especially if they don't make sense in the grand picture or add anything meaningful to the story.
I think Martin Scorcese is a very smart and adorable short king who's correct roughly 80% of the time. I also personally believe that media literacy is at an all-time low. Just look at Logan Paul's reaction to Nope.
Yea he explains his point a bit better at a directors round table interview, which I think Greta gerwig was as too. Like overall these giant big budget movies, mostly comic book movies, had been the only movies drawing audiences to theaters. Especially right as covid restrictions were lightening up. Only big budget movies were drawing in audiences and even then not even making as much money as predicted. Until this summer with Oppenheimer and Barbie neither being a sequel or superhero movie. A great sign for original story and auteur movies
@@NathanielSnider1017 i loved just writes video on the pirates of the Caribbean trilogy. it looks at the artistry in those old action blockbusters and how it’s largely missing from many recent mcu films
Martin Scorsese has restored, promoted and financed more diverse world-cinema than literally anyone else in the history of film. Projects and funds he created have directly employed more women and people of color than every Marvel film combined. Empowering underrepresented communities to influence cinema is his life work. He's one the most important figures of modern culture. To reduce any interview of his to "elderly take" is pathetically ignorant. The fact he also happens to be one of the greatest directors of all time is just like his side-hustle.
I think the issue with Martin is that he gets too hung up on Marvel itself instead of talking more generally about the film industry and about what is or isn't "art". And that's why the good points he makes get lost on the "elderly takes" because D'Angelo is right that saying Marvel movies don't convey anything or cause any emotion just because he doesn't particularly likes them is missing the mark as much as rockstarts who are judmental about people liking pop and/or rap. The problem isn't the content of the movies itself, because if audiences prefer it he will have to deal with it. And at the end of the day, audiences are not stupid. Marvel is on a decline BECAUSE their stories are getting worse and worse. So maybe the focus should be less on what is or isn't cinema and more on what's ruining the film industry, such as the greed from the studios, the quantity over quality, which clearly affects even franchizes.
Lol does diversity mean he can't be wrong? Imagine calling someone pathetic but ass kissing someone just bcs of movies. He's not wrong that more indie work needs to be promoted, but it's pathetically ignorant to think comic book movies don't have deep meaning. It just means you can't critically analyze what it would be....
Rap doesn’t speak to me, but why should it? I’m a sixty-four year old white guy. I was born in a different time and place, lived through different experiences, faced different problems. Who wants to live in a world where music doesn’t speak to people where they are and about their experiences? I don’t like rap, and that’s ok. It’s not about me nor for me.
I didn’t take Scorcese’s takes as just “new fun stuff not good, old school better”. It is a critique against the constant churning of block buster films, through boiling them down to formulas. In other words, he is critiquing the fact that the biggest films come from production companies that deliver roughly the same material 3-4 times a year, instead of taking the risks some used to in the 70s. Now there are still people who do, but they are just not as common or popular as the pack of 20 marvel films that are constantly in production.
but shark tale *wasnt* a glorified cash grab that was riding off the coattails of nothing but the celebrity voice cast and shrek's success? (...not that im complaining - will smith fish)
but i still think he’s wrong with that… the popularity of barbie and a24 i think proves that. like one of the biggest horror movies this year was an australian, indie movie by first time directors. there is still diversity in the film industry and sometimes marvel is the one making it (e.g. spiderverse)
@@katemartin113Barbie is one of the most well known dolls in the world. Besides they spent more on marketing the movie than they did on the movie itself. Even if the movie only broke even they would not have lost any money because of the increased doll sales. Now Mattel is planning other toy movies. I hope they don't become the next marvel.
@@katemartin113 Spider-verse is a Sony movie, actually. It was made in association with Marvel, due to Spider-Man's current character licensing, but it was produced by Sony, so I wouldn't give Marvel Entertainment much credit for it.
@@katemartin113I mean he did make this point in like 2019 when marvel was more movie focused than series focused. People really sensationalized it and made it seen like he was attacking marvel or elevating himself but he was really just trying to highlight that disney using its corporate power to dominate theaters with formulaic content was pushing out (like actually) films made by other people, about a diverse array of stories in a diverse array of genres simply for the sake of film vs for the sake if franchises and merchandise sales. Its sad to make it out like he's being hater instead of saying that he wants to see unique stories instead of the same thing over and over and give new audiences exposure to different styles of film. Even if you say MCU stories are unique from each other...you have to admit they're all filmed extremely similarly. Its not a "low brow vs high brow" thing. Movie theaters are better about it right now, I just think people should have more of a chance to see different things.
Give it to D’Angelo to surprise us with his musical talents! You are killing it, can we get more songs like that, paired with your excellent and thoughtful commentary? Thank you D’Angelo ❤
Is everyone gaslighting me?! That wasn't him singing I swear. I'm sure he wrote the song but omg that was a totally different persons voice. Different tone, pitch, timbre... literally sounded nothing like him.
You completely misunderstood Scorsese's point. Marvel has killed the small and mid budget movie and 90% of what we have in cinemas rn is remakes, sequels or adaptations of already popular IP. That stiffles creativity and cinema is worse off as a result. Marty is authentically passionate about cinema and cares about what the state of cinema will be once he's gone.
Nah you don't get that he sees comic book franchises as not having true meaning. But even if they're cash grabs, theyre not done lazily and the people working on them also care. There's actual trash like Sharknado but even then they're meant to be bad
People in general, not just old people, tend to confuse "I don't like this" with "It's garbage". There are excellent Marvel movies, not many though, and rap is more than music, it's poetry when done right.
always frustrates me when someone says "I don't like this thing" and I'm like "oh, I kinda liked it" and they're like "actually you're wrong, you can't like it because it's objectively bad so your opinion is wrong and you have shit taste" like???
Honestly, I cannot imagine NOT expanding my musical horizons. These people are so close-minded. When you are close minded to new things, it can really shut you off from experiencing something amazing. I hate that for them.
fr!!! ESPECIALLY if you're a music artist yourself, it can open your eyes and even if you're not the biggest fan of it, it can definitely make your art sound better because you are willing to experiment and try things from different styles !
Bruh, listen to Keiichi Okabe’s music from NieR; Replicant and NieR; Automata. Most of the songs are in a made up language blended from 20 different languages, it’s like orchestral music mixed with Gregorian chant, Dark Souls boss music, and pop ballads. It’s some of the most relaxing and also heartbreaking music ever. Shadowlord is a boss song that takes place during basically the destruction of humanity, A Beautiful Song is about a lost soul who did too much for another’s pleasure and lost herself in the process, and f*ck dude “Emil” all versions are amazing. Just a suggestion, it’s awesome and so are the games. ❤️
I’m 50 and much to my own dismay, I’m kind of finding it hard to get into new music. I’m not saying it’s bad as these old men are saying (can’t stand Keith Richards anyway, he’s always been a dick), but music ends up getting referential so it’s just sounding like music from my childhood, teens and now even my 20s and early 30s. Just like the music in the late 80s and early was referential of the 60s and 70s, which annoyed my mum back then lol
Personally I’m autistic and really struggle to get myself to listen to something new. I tend to play the same 8 songs on repeat and struggle to listen to new ones but I am working on being able to
I'm not closed-minded. At least I hope I'm not. It just takes a lot of energy for me to try new experiences (like going to new places, playing new games, trying new music, food, tv shows) so I'm not doing it as often. Those things always come with the risk of setting off my sensory issues. That being said, I love learning new things! I watch a lot of commentary TH-cam so I can understand the world better. I try to intentionally challenge my own thinking. I'm also autistic like the person who commented above me. I find comfort in repetition too, and I'm sure that plays a role in why I might not branch out as much in my tastes.
Alright, on Scorsese's "Marvel takes". I hate that the media deliberately sensationalises his argument to make it seem that he has some vendetta against superhero movies, but what it really is is a conversation about studios churning out products for profit vs artists trying to express themselves. When the business model of the big studios is literally to pump out as many similar products as they can, it comes at the cost of the opportunities for smaller artists to find an audience (and get funding). And on what you showed of the movies playing in your local theatre, most of them are still franchise films (which is what he's really talking about), and that is a first world country theatre. In a developing country (like mine), we literally only get franchise films. Never reruns. A Scorsese will only (maybe) get 1 week of screening months after initial release, where as the latest franchise film will be out for months on end from premiere to whenever the cash cow runs dry. It's not that one is "higher" than the other, but there is most DEFINITELY a disparity. I think if you in any way agree with the notion that corporations get in the way of artists expressing themselves authentically, you should agree with what he's saying.
I feel like getting immediately into identity politics of ’’boomers’’ vs everything good, instead of engaging with the actual points Scorcese - an unequivocal titan of cinema that has a very long experience within the industry, have seen how it evolved, how it fell and rose again, that actively works to include more marginalised people in cinema since like forever - makes is a great illustration of a great problem of our generation, which is overpraising youthfulness and dismissing aging and older people. By doing that, we actively erase our collective memory. That’s why with social issues, we restart so many discussions that have already happened 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago. Martin is saying I’ve seen this before but at a smaller scale, and we should beware, and you defend Disney’s corporate machine instead of listening. We lose so much time running on empty and yet we too, one day, will become old.
honestly was really disappointing how knee-jerk d'angellos response seemed. A rare L for him here and it really seemed to be so critical and unwilling to engage in good faith which seems so unsual for him... I was honestly kinda shocked how emotionally charged he seemed about this one...
The take on Scorsese is uninformed. Disney literally went out of their way to bully theaters & cinemas to not play his film Kundun at the behest of the Chinese government. It’s part of their business model to push out other films from being viewed when they get theaters to display their films. They pressure them into giving up the majority of ticket sales, making the cinema more expensive and less likely that people will risk seeing something less familiar. When he talks about them, he’s talking about the business model of studios and how they’re engineered to be without meaning so they’re more easily distributed to countries that have extreme human rights violations. Marvel/DC movies have a few exceptions when it comes to quality, but they are few. Ultimately, the issue is with the executive class who decide what movies get made, not with young audience members that enjoy that selection of movies. There has been a half year long strike going on, because they literally want to use AI and digital scans of people to replace actors and writers, with Marvel/Disney having already used these methods for years now. All so producers and executives can make even more then they already don’t deserve to make. Sometimes the elderly shake their fists at the young because they’re young, and sometimes the young shake their fists at the elderly because they’re elderly. Keith Richards is out of touch. BYYYEEE
On the film front, I will say that I think marty's got a point in the sense that with superhero movies turning into these huge, all-encompassing franchises in the last decade or so they probably divert more resources and interest from big studios than any other popular film genre did before them, and that it's probably much harder to pitch a one-off movie to a studio (especially if you're not a super famous and respected director, like Nolan, Greta Gerwig or Scorcese himself) now than it ever was before. But that doesn't make marvel movies non-cinema, even if most of us are kind of sick of them at this point
it also confuses cause and effect - he's framing it like the movies are responsible for the studio decisions, rather than studio decisions being responsible for the movies. the mcu has the symptoms of a lot of the problems in modern hollywood, but it's the cause of none of them - corporate greed, and disney's growing monopoly, is. (also if you're going to yell at movies for starting a trend of repitive overly expensive cg-heavy movies, bayformers did it first!)
its also q funny how he says ppl like him and nolan need to save cinema when if he really cared, he should have named up and coming independent directors whose movies Do Not automatically get greenlit just from their name and who lost opportunities to the franchise films
@@SapphykinsShit has gotten way more intense with Marvel entering the scene and Disney sucking up other business titans like droplets, taking out the competition, building a monopoly, and going all in with franchises and remakes! But shit started back in the eighties with action franchises like Lethal Weapon. Even dramas like Rocky and Rambo were watered down into franchises, 'murica propaganda and increasing formulaicness and mindlessness. Don't even get me started on RoboCop...
Super hero movies literally dominated cinema rooms and PUSHED indie movies out to streaming services and Disney themselves admitted to manipulating the market to push their sup movies. So it does effect culture and cinema
Yes but I think there is an argument to say they did not succeed, and I would argue that Scorcese is making it sound like the MCU makes people not understand cinema and hence the world
@@ElPresidenteMargz I mean it's subjective, I think scorcese is upset that not everyone goes to the cinema or watches the movie to challenged and would rather be entertained, plus I would argue the gotg films have great themes and tackle darker topics, but it would not surprise me if scorcese has not seen them or if he did if he missed the overall themes of the film, due to his dismissal of superhero movies altogether
i think theirs a bit more context to martins take on marvel, which is that when marvel movies DO play they usually take up ALL the room in the theater. There was a quenton tarantino interview a while back where he said he had rented out space for a new movie of his to be shown in the cinerama dome but when it came closer to release he got booted out of his spot because disney was going to be showing starwars and they would not let his film show there or else they wouldnt allow the theater to show starwars. jamie lee curtis also complained about this when everything everywhere all at once was showing at the same time as the new doctor strange. When you checked your local showtimes and there was no superhero movies showing its because the MCU pushed back all their releases because of the actors strike not allowing actors to promote films
I used to dislike rap music, or i would judge rap artists through the lens of my life. Luckily, i grew out of that, realizing where rap came from and what it actually represents. I still prefer 90s rap, but it's such an amazing genre, and it's nothing like what so many people claim it is.
I do have a problem with the MCU but that's more down to the unethical production practices rather than the quality of storytelling itself. The whole business model is dependent on the exploitation on VFX artists. I am over the moon about the fact that they have recently unionised.
I think they’ve totally overtaken movie theatres and movie culture. There’s way fewer interesting movies at the theatres than there used to be. It makes money so I understand why, but I also miss watching good dramas and having superhero movies still feel fun (because they weren’t spammed out).
all i want is cartoons too, no movie, just some mildly ok animated cartoons with long runtimes. i was happy with marvel TAS and the DCAU. you don't need all that budget, forget the normies, they don't really love you, they won't watch your silly poorly animated cartoons and buy your toys but i will. forget them honey, they don't matter. you know it was always me all along, don't you
With Keith Richards, it definitely feels like eltism from him, especially with the whole “rap bad” narrative. With Martin Scorsese I get him a lot more. I don’t think that marvel movies aren’t cinema, inarguably they are, and the way he’s putting it it’s definitely elitism coming from him. You can like marvel things and that doesn’t make you dumb. But I can also see why he’s so anxious about it, because I think the MCU is definitely a lot bigger than some fad, and the amount of shows and movies being made just to supplement the MCU is kind of absurd, I don’t know the consequences of that, if that gets in the way of other lesser known independent films. but personally I think it’s reasonable to be terrified of Disney’s media production machines. It reminds me almost of video games, where huge companies are getting away with progressively more predatory monetary practices and it’s legitimately concerning. Because a generation of kids is being raised up ok video games where like half of them have gambling and all of them want to steal your money.
The MCU is also kind of a symptom of a much much much larger problem with the entertainment industry as a whole, where companies only want to bankroll "safe bets" of remakes, reboots, and adaptations of already popular IPs. This is a depressingly common story around animation in particular for TV and the like. I do think a lot of people took the MCU criticism as a personal attack, but really it's the studios' fault. Many creative people are pitching new ideas, it's just that big corporations don't wanna invest in things that they're not 100% sure will print money as a result. Which is how we get crap like ""live action"" Lion King remake.
@@YlimegirlCool This is so true! Like OP said, liking MCU movies or TV shows doesn't make anyone less than, but the underlayer of what's been happening in the industry as a whole, the bigger picture of it is that the art of cinema does suffer as a result. The art of cinema doesn't need to necessarily be pinned down (let's not go the entire way into elitism) but indie movie makers (for example) stand absolutely no chance in front of giants like Disney, et al.
@@YlimegirlCool thank you for commenting exactly what I was going to comment haha. I think the point here is that Marvel is the new face of entertainment companies using the same formula over and over, just because it gives A LOT of money and by that, all the investment goes to these movies and leave the creative and bold ideas with very little investment. I think that’s what Scorcese means, even though he got lost in the “good vs bad cinema” discourse and also used pretty bad examples of what his ideal of cinema is
I don’t think it’s really about super hero movies, mostly about franchises. Like…Movies aren’t allowed to be stand alone films anymore. They’re all sequels/prequels/adaptations/remakes. It’s not all movies, obvs. But there are so many that it’s getting tired even for fans.
Keith Richards comments about pop and hiphop and Scorsese's comments about the MCU aren't similar at all, man. Richards comes from a place of ignorance, misinformation, and a refusal to adapt to the music landscape for reasons you stated: both genres have so many different subgenres that to say it all sounds the same is just hella inaccurate. Plus, a rockstar saying that he's tired of an artform where they "yell" at him is hilarious. Scorsese's are infinitely more valid. You argue that he wants cinema to adhere to one specific type of art when that's the opposite of what he's arguing for! He's arguing for a much more diverse landscape of film! Obviously, MCU films have their purpose and I like/enjoy quite a few of them. But if that's the only thing that culture keeps pushing and marketing for along with sequels, reboots, and remakes -- especially at the expense of new and original stories -- that's a bad thing! To chalk that up to old man yelling at cloud because it's a popular thing he's critiquing is a bad faith reading into what he's saying.
I think you're misunderstanding Scorcese's argument about cinema and Marvel movies. He's not saying that independent filmmaking is dead, and he's not saying that this new genre is killing cinema, he's saying that this new way of filmmaking, this new way to produce content and cinematic universes is killing cinema. Popular franchises like Marvel, DC, and Star Wars are all no longer treating their films and shows as art but rather as simply a financial investment, content for the sake of content with no real meaning or message aside from safe themes and the fact that they continually make money. This is driving these series into the ground with so many shows and movies it would be impossible for the average person to keep up, which means that less important content with fewer people watching can't impact the overall "cinema universe story" or else mainstream viewers will be lost, relegating these stories, shows and films to this odd purgatory of storytelling where ultimately, nothing is said, and nothing of value is added. This can be seen with Star Wars, and you said yourself you had no desire to keep up with all the Marvel content, and to your point about the Barbie move there have even been talks and rumors circulating about a possible Matel cinematic universe. This is Scorcese's point, that films are losing their value and simply being relegated to for-profit content which ultimately could change the way movies are made by studios, and frankly, I think he's right.
Well said. This is the best response and interpretation of Scorsese's entire point. It's really sad and disappointing that D'angelo missed his point and essentially went on a rant without properly understanding where Scorsese was coming from, but i doubt he would take back what hes already said in his video. For someone who usually does research into his video topics, D'angelp couldn't even tell that the interviewer twisted Scorsese's words. In my opinion, it's quite eye-opening that someone who has been a part of the entertainment industry and knows how studios work and think for so long is being dragged down by people like D,angelo simply because i guess he's "old."
@notaurenotsure2732 Of course, making money is always the goal, but making films is synonymous with creating art. It's supposed to be created with passion and artistic integrity. Films now are being created with neither of those in mind and simply created ONLY for the sake of making money. The film industry has become more corporate now than ever before, and it couldn't be more evident than film industry executives attempting to implement the use of A.I. in replacement of actual writers.
Counterpoint: I'm a 59 year old woman and I think all you kids are adorable! Except for the ones eating red pills and playing around with cyrpto, of course. I don't have to understand what you like to respect it.
i love this comment-- the way you made crypto-bros and red-pilled people sound like children swallowing extra vitamin gummies or playing with pokemon cards is my absolute favorite thing
Rap music is music. Modern cinema has gotten weak. Marvel movies and generic block busters over saturate whole business. However, Barbie and Oppenheimer have shown that genuinely fantastic films make money. So I'm hopeful for the future.
I mean, Oppenheimer could have been far better in some departments (mainly some of the treatment of the women in it) however I do agree, both are great examples of modern cinema.
Oppenheimer and Barbie are a bit different. One is a Chris Nolan movies, he's probably the most well known director out there. And Barbie is also an well known product not to mention the amount they spent on promoting the movie. Most original movies won't have the same conditions. Of course these past couple years the people are becoming tired of the formulaic superhero movies which also played a role in these two movies becoming such a hit.
i think it has more to do with whats asking people to leave the house and whats not,. on top of the fact that you don't wanna see a truly good movie with allot of people. home viewing really is much better for immersion. I go see movies in theaters when i know people being rude during the film won't bother me. the whole cinema thing has outstayed it's welcome. refering to the big screen and all that. it's nothing special, we have tvs at home and wanna smoke weed and eat
Ok what Keith Richards said about Pop/Rap music was stupid and reductive. It does make him seem like an ignorant old man. BUT Scorsese is 100% right about MCU. And I'm saying this as someone who is also 25 years old. I used to really enjoy super hero movies. I'm not some intellectual snob who looks down on things just because they're popular but the whole superhero genre has become so grossly over saturated and devoid of creativity and substance that there just no longer fun to me at all. You can literally tell with 95% of them that its just about making money and nothing else. To be clear, I'm not saying superhero films should have to have loads of substance to be good but there should be enough that you actually are interested and engaged in what's happening. It shouldn't all feel tedious and formulaic. I think since the avengers films it's just become to much about having an epic spectacle with a flashy cast rather than having a compelling plot, with good writing and developed characters because that's what they think will do best at the box office. And you can see the knock on effect it has had on other things too. Everybody wants to set up their own cinematic universe now because they've seen what an endless cash cow it can be. Why bother coming up with new stories and characters when you can just rehash the same shit. Just absolutely rinse it for all its worth and then some. Until it ceases to be any fun. Like what they've done. with the star wars franchise. It's not just that it's low brow. I can enjoy low brow. it's just really lazy and not entertaining. And if I feel this way I can totally understand how a creative genius like Scorsese would be a little frustrated by it. I think your wrong about this D'Angelo, I don't think he's worried out of concern for himself being overlooked. He's far too well established at this point. It's the next generation of creative directors. And it makes sense because marvel films are so dominant. The comment he made about it being manufactured content and almost like AI was writing the script. LOL I have actually thought that before. I don't think we're too far off from that. If you still enjoy them then fine, I know a lot of people do bit i reckon everyone must have their limit. I would not just dismiss what he said as an "elderly take" though.
As a musician and a person who really loves music , The thing about music is it is literally art. You shouldn’t be so negative about calling certain music terrible or mid or not calling it music at all. Be more open with new music as well and it is ok to definitely not like every genre of music or song there is ever. But you have to respect everyone opinion and appreciate the music.
Literally I listen to Yoko Shimimura’s composition from kingdom hearts, Iron Maiden, and crunk music from the 2000’s in the same playlist. It’s lame to say bad things about music that has saved people’s lives. Linkin Park saved mine, it makes me sad when people say they’re glad Chester k!lled himself because his music sucked. Like bro who hurt you
D'Angelo, you showing the cinema line-up of films is proving Scorsese's point! It's not about superhero films, he is talking about the franchise-ification of films- Saw X (sequel), Expend4ables (sequel), Paw Patrol (IP movie), The Nun II (sequel), A Haunting in Venice (sequel), The Equalizer 3 (sequel), My Big Fat Greek Wedding 3 (Sequel), Blue Beetle (IP movie), TMNT (IP movie), Gran Turismo (IP movie), even Barbie isn't original IP. Scorsese cares a lot about film making and people being able to create original content and inventive films, and seems bothered that all studios push or put money towards now is movies based on pre-existing IP because they have a built in audience. That's all! Maybe he is being a bit old mannish about it, but it isn't as simple as him hating superheroes lol
Maybe he could actually get his point across without hinting at it and many wouldn’t have missed his point, he just sounds like a bitter old racist man
@notaurenotsure2732 He did get his point across. The interviewer twisted his words around, and despite that, many people still understood exactly what he meant. If you couldn't comprehend what he was clearly talking about to the point that someone else online had to break it down for you to understand his point, then he's not the problem. You are.
Scorsese is right, but what’s interesting is that he was making a serious critical analysis: he was objectively saying that Marvel movies don’t address what serious films do, that Marvel movies unashamedly just try to entertain and thrill without addressing anything deeper, so comparing them to ride films was entirely appropriate. It was Francis Ford Coppola who was more straightforward, saying that Marvel movies are crap.
I do hate that people twisted what Scorsese said as some 1950s romanticizing of old white movies when he has been saying that the Korean film industry is heavily overlooked by the west and people only started embracing the more serious Korean films only after k-pop and kdramas blew up. Ironically, I think people like scorsese fighting for art theaters is better for foreign films because arr theaters are the only place that support foreign films to the same extent they support American films. Laemle used to be the only place in my areas you could watch Indian films and now I have to drive an hour because small theaters are closing and big theaters are being bought out by franchises. As someone who’s not into Marvel movies, it gets increasingly more difficult to go to the theater to watch movies I DO like because they’re being pushed out. As a Bengali it was really exciting to see people like Wes Anderson remake a scene from a Bengali art film director to allude to something in his own movie.
Fun fact: old people in every generation complain about the new generations music. I do it to my son, my dad did it to me, my grandfather did it to him and so on and so forth. I’m sure it goes back to the beginning of human’s making music. And film.
Complaining about younger generations has been going on at least since the old Greeks. Funny that people still think that they are being original when doing it.
I don't agree with 100% of Scorcese's points, but I DO think he touches upon a salient point about a lot of Marvel movies acting as 'content' and a way to sell tangential products, rather than stories told for the sake of telling stories. That doesn't mean there isn't earnest work put into them by the individuals who make them, it doesn't mean they can't touch people in earnest ways, nor does it mean we have to get rid of all frivolous, just-for-fun media, but I think it's important to zoom out an examine the context and reason these are made and the wider effect they're having on pop culture, seeing as they are produced by the largest media corporation in the world. Calling them theme-park-movies feels honestly kind of accurate when you consider Disney's aggressive work to tie their franchises into their theme parks. Disney's movies, by and large, act as giant, extended advertisements for their other products, and it's important to recognize that as their goal when trying to asses them under nebulous idea of 'artistic merit', as well as the way these churned out, tent-pole blockbusters have actively pushed smaller films out of theaters. Idk I just don't think this is wholly an 'old man yells at cloud' situation, when that cloud is literally the Walt Disney Corporation.
i’m not gonna lie i do agree with scorcese - not because marvel/comic movies are “low brow” but because they have declined in quality just to satiate the masses. like spiderverse is a great example of a comic book movie that was fantastically well done both visually and story-wise. i just think that studios producing movies are thinking less about movies as story and more about movies as product. i think movies and music can be silly and don’t have to be deep, but i think they should be made with heart (best recent example of this is barbie: so fun, so silly, and you can tell that everyone had fun making it).
I think Scorsese was more talking about the industry of franchise films dominating theaters and keeping independent and original films from being played in theaters. Trash is fun, I mean who doesn’t like watching something you can turn your brain off to, but it’s an over abundance of… that. It’s definitely gotten better tho, the last 2 years have been better for films, mostly bc we’re seeing more films that aren’t superhero films coming out, and if they are, they’re interesting and different (Spider-Verse). The reason Barbenhiemer was even an event is because it was 2 films by auteurs coming out the same day, and they actually had big budgets, which is rare. And it paid off bc the movies were actually fantastic. Who knew? I agree with your music takes 100% but I felt Scorsese had an actual point here besides “marvel bad”.
Idk, if this is the same interview that keeps being brought up and taken out of context- Scorsese has a lot of good points, and some meh ones. For me, it's more about the genericization/monopolization of fewer and fewer companies and how instead of 'cinema' we just get 'a movie'- less about the experience and more like a forgettable theme park ride. I can name the number of recent movies I'd be able to watch again and be enjoying on one hand. There's a real difference in how movies have been made over time, with different studios preferring different methods- and with so few companies tearing up the industry into different kingdoms, it's hard for those individual movies to stand out
this is literally the best era to discover music you like and avoid music you dont like. i dont go out my way to dislike taylor swift, if i hear music in public i dislike, i tune it out or have my earbuds handy to listen to my favorite silly little noises. if i want to discover new music, i can browse and research smaller artists and bands and be completely fulfilled. it feels like a waste of energy to hate music i dont like when i can be discovering my next favorite song.
Exactly I'm the same way now more than I was younger I focused on artist I like and don't go out my way to hate musicians to hate on them I just don't give them the time of day I listen to artists that I like or I can relate to.
I think people are fixating on the brand & genre of marvel and comic book movies, when, to me, it sounds like Marty is trying to talk about the factory line construction of these films. A lot of the decisions about the story, and action are decided by executives in a board room years before they go into production. These movies have release dates first, scripts second. He views film as an art, and he works to preserve world cinema. To me, it sounds like he wants the art of filmmaking to survive instead of all films being about being billion dollar hits. I’m sure there are a lot of people with emotional connections to marvel movies, I was a big marvel fan and saw every movie in theaters up until recently. But the problem is if that’s all you see, then Chris Nolan looks like arthouse cinema. there’s a limited depth of storytelling and emotional complexity there, and it’s if you only eat candy itll stunt your growth.
But D'angelo's point is that there's massively popular movies that don't fit that mold, so regardless of the production behind Marvel films, (which have definitely lost a large following after the conclusion of infinity war), there will be successful films in various styles across all facets. Claiming that Marvel is poisoning the well is a very pessimistic view of humanity's ability to appreciate art.
Yeah, it's honestly a bit condescending (of Scorsese) to assume that the population is only being exposed to Marvel movies (or Marvel-esque movies), like we're just dumb sheep incapable of seeking out anything else. I don't think I know a single person who only consumes Marvel content. That argument is just ludicrous.
@@TeeklGreyYou haven’t spoken to a teenager in the past 5 years if you don’t know anyone who has only ever seen Marvel and/or Disney movies only. These people will be adults in a few years and are going to be the cultural tastemakers when they start earning money. And what media do you think they’re going to start consuming then? People are more likely to stick to what they know than branch out.
Okay, but Scorsese only talked about marvel *once* four years ago during an interview when he was *literally* asked to give his opinion. Can people have opinions and just be. The man had to write an OpEd just to justify his opinion about *marvel* like he denied the holocaust or something. Besides, Marvel is having a tough time holding on to its audience, even the comic lovers. There are dozens of articles on “superhero fatigue”. So maybe he wasn’t so “out of touch” lol.
Studying musical History in college, I always found it funny how a lot of white Christian classical composers said that Jazz music was not music in the early 20th century. Jazz was dominated by black, Hispanic, mixed race and Jewish people. Jazz has its roots in Blues which was exclusively African -American music in the 19th century. Just when white people call rap 'non music' today, they're basically as racist as the white people slamming Jazz back then.
Whenever people make statements like these I think, "Why can't you just let people enjoy what they enjoy?" Even if certain media isn't my personal taste, as long as it isn't full of bigotry, I'm glad if someone gets meaning from or likes it. And your song was great!
I feel like this about my ripped jeans too lol like the most annoying part of ripped jeans is all the old people pointing out "hey you got holes in your pants. You paid money for those? WOW" lol yes I DID and I AM wearing the jeans I PAID FOR on MY OWN body minding MY OWN business! I'm not commenting on your tan slacks with your super wedgie and visible granny panty underwear lines 💀💀 just let people be and express themselves how they want as long as it isn't hurting anyone!
@itsme-s. I dunno, haven’t people been paying top dollar for pre-distressed and ripped clothing since the punk era? I’m thinking this has less to do with the age of the people you’re interacting with, and more to do with their particular cultural blinders. At this point plenty of grandparents were paying for ripped jeans when they were younger, and I literally haven’t encountered anyone under 80 who talks like that about distressed clothing (and even then it’s incredibly rare, because again, ripped jeans are hardly a rare or rebellious statement thing at this point). Unless, that is, they’re doing it simply because they don’t know what to say to someone younger, but they want to interact with them; so they just say something that they think will fulfil a stereotype of what they “should” be saying, and so provide an easy roadmap for a social interaction. Older person tells younger person “surely you didn’t pay money for that!” in response to item that is currently fashionable, so that younger person can roll their eyes and say “yeah, it’s what’s fashionable, everyone is doing it”. But let’s be realistic, middle aged people also wear ripped jeans; it’s hardly something unique to the young or to modern fashion. At this point it’s a pretty well-established trend going back a whole bunch of decades, as much of a staple as micro miniskirts or wearing a leather jacket and boots with a dress 🤷♀️
Oh, no, not the Scorcese thing, it's such a cursed discourse. This drama is manufactured and so very ancient. Bad journalists purposefully go out of their way to prompt Directors to say controversial things about Marvel because it is such a cultural juggernaut (or, at least, was when the whole thing happened nearly half a decade ago) that any minuscule related quote that they can jam in their titles is going to have a massive effect on their click rate. Of course, Marvel wasn't going to be to Scorsese's taste. That's why he was prompted on it. Journalist wanted a pay raise. Despite this, his point was about as milquetoast as it humanely gets. He claimed that Marvel is more akin to a theme park ride than to traditional filmmaking, which, I mean, where's the lie? Genuinely asking. Everyone, including fans, admits that it is formulaic and cash-grabby, right? I haven't seen a single Scorsese film in my life, but I really dislike the almost toxic positive mindset that respected artists aren't allowed to publicly dislike trends or influential companies in their specific domain of art. My man clearly cares about the craft and is dismayed at factory-made movies. That's fair. He's also a tad out of touch. That's normal considering what he is. At his age and level of success, I honestly think he's earned his right to be old and grumpy. The whole rap thing is different because, besides being so obviously racially charged, rap, unlike marvel, is not one single brand, it has millions of artists and subgenres. Criticizing one specific trend or artist within rap would be completely acceptable.
God bless this comment. I’ve been defending Scorsese and his points about the monopoly action franchises have on the cinema for years now because I also believe we should have all types of films available for whoever wants them, but this always just gets boiled down to “Comic book movie bad.” It’s just another way to continue internet infighting while the studios continue the same business tactics they always have
He's not senile. He can choose to not have bad takes. He chooses to answer questions about Marvel by saying "they're not cinema", over and over, and yet praises Nolan, who is so obsessed with creating amusement park-like experiences that he insisted his film had to be screened in cinemas during the height of the pandemic. He is right on some points, but he's also close-minded.
@@theMoporterhow in the hell is Nolan a director who makes theme park rides? Dunkirk? Oppenheimer? Like come on lmfao MEMENTO? Yeah what a simple and enjoyable movie. Pffft. Also “they aren’t cinema” is as pretentious to argue with, as it is to agree with. Wtf is “cinema”. I’m not going to be the pretentious person pretending to know what he means. Marvel movies are just so boring and dominate the film landscape. They’re worse than the sum of their parts.
@@theMoporteri agree that martin is a bit close minded. when he initially made his “theme park” claims back in the day, i dont think his points were entirely validated, but ultimately, he predicted their impact on the future of cinema and the film industry. nowadays, his claims are 100% undeniably valid. mravel started out with a level of artistry and oversight that forgave its materialstic and consumerist intentions, but you cant say the same about it anymore. the stories are mostly bland, repetitive, and lack the unique identity that once made them so lovable. its unfortunate and totally true. about christopher nolan- when martin mentions him, he is referring to this idea of modern auteurism that started with spielberg and jaws, this idea of huge blockbusters that are directed by artists (not producers and executives like modern day disney, marvel, star wars films, etc.) that have a creative vision that they can fully execute. this form of blockbuster movie is dying out, because studios have infinitely more control on a project then they used to have, which is what martin has a problem with, and rightfully so. less and less movies (including nolan type blockbusters) are executed by artists. also, almost every movie with attention these days is a blockbuster so the monicker of blockbuster is slowly loosing its meaning. its super interesting, there are a ton of video essays you can check out about it.
Idk man, martin is pretty spot on. They are formulaic and cookie cutter. Its weird fans unanimously agreed cbms are in a trash spot but get triggered when someone old says it
It's one thing when some random old person says current gen films and superhero movies are trash without providing additional insight into why they think this way and another thing when an old man who's knowledgeable in the film industry who was able to articulate his thoughts into why current Cinema is the it is.
It’s so ironic that during your video I was treated to an ad for Scorcese’s new film. 😅 And your song at the end? Perfect closing to your arguments. (Chef’s kiss)
I can understand if people don’t like how flooded rap music is with misogyny and stuff but that’s never their issue with it, it’s always either something racist or old.
I don't think Scorsese's argument is that marvel isn't cinema because he doesn't like them. It's more to do with the production and mentality that goes into making them - as they are less expressions of a personal or group vision, and more paint by numbers products. And we could probably group other similar franchises in with marvel, such as fast and furious or Jurassic park. This is because the individual instalments of these franchises are not made in a way that allows them to be independent expressions, but rather they are inoffensive, made by committee, entertainment that has to rigidly follow marvels film structure (whether that be the writing, colour, direction) and advertise the rest of the franchise. They are empty calories, absolutely delicious but not nutritious. There are exceptions to this in marvel, but those tend to be either the big event film, or the ones that have a clear creative lead who have their own style (eg. Guardians 1, 2, 3, or Thor Ragnarok). Also Scorsese's statement that big blockbusters are leaving less space for original and smaller movies is absolutely true, even in the clip that you showed only 2 or 3 of the movies weren't based on a preexisting IP.
I gotta say i kinda agree with Scorsese on this one. I'm a learning filmmaker myself and I gotta say that these marvel movies are not good for the film industry as a whole. These scenarios are usually the ones that get picked up leaving other smaller productions to be thrown aside and not receiving any money to make the movie happen, even though they are in much bigger need of these funds. It's the same for cinema distribution, Big movies like marvel get picked first leaving the smaller movies without recognition or a space to gain an audience. Off course i'm not saying all other movies are being pushed aside and not shown anymore because right now that is not the case. But I do think it's concerning to see the trajectory that is going on with cinema right now. Also I don't wanna say that Marvel movies are not art because indeed like Scorsese said there is great work being done there by SFX people, make-up and so on and so forth but I wouldn't say they were the height of cinema. They follow a certain formula which is popular and usually don't do anything inventive which I do think makes them less of an art piece and more just entertainment, not saying that's bad. Off course people feel feelings watching these movies i'm not saying they don't and people are allowed to love these movies. I just think other movies shouldn't be pushed aside in favor of these movies. I also gotta say I don't think Scorsese comes over as insecure here but just giving his very strong opinion. Also being around a lot of film people trust me they love expressing their opinions on cinema so I don't think this is coming from some fear to lose viewers or something he's just passionate about it. I think he knows his career is just fine. Over all I think it's understandable that it is annoying to have people criticize your taste like that but I do think he kinda has a point when it comes to the film industry. People shouldn't bash others for liking these things but I also, from what I saw, didn't really get the vibe that he did.
If Keith Richards doesn't like black music why did him and the rolling stones steal it so much in their early career??? I mean I guess its okay to like Jazz and not like rap but its hard to hate rap without sounding racially motivated. He probably should have just said he doesn't like a lack of creativity in music. The only problem is I think music sounds more diverse and creative than ever rn.
Also I kind of see what scorsese means. I think marvel is great but I think the mid budget movie is nearly exctint. Movies need to be tied to a franchise or massive brand to be greenlit. Greta Gerwig is an amazing director but keep in mind that her last two movies were both based on existing IP. At the same time thats not really marvels fault. He talks about it in the worst way possible. I think both of them are bad at understanding why they don't like certain things.
I agree, but I think gangster rap can be very harmful. I love rap, but I can only bring myself to listen to the light-hearted stuff or songs with social/political commentary. Hearing someone brag about killing others and selling crack to the vulnerable hurts my heart.
@@chickensalad3535 When you say that; I want to know if “I shot a man in Reno” or “Cocaine” are under your definition of “very harmful”. Interesting how you had to specify gangster rap.
@@chickensalad3535 alright tell me your thoughts on all the rock songs objectifying and bragging about women (and to an extent the ones glorifying csa), the ones revolving around drugs, or the metal songs about bloodshed and war. do you consider any of that harmful as the hip hop songs about violence and drug dealing?
@@chickensalad3535 If hearing about violence or drugs in music makes you sad I totally underatand that. It's serious stuff. It just weird that only rap is criticised for stuff like this though. The rolling stone and beatles are literally famous for their drug use, not to mention the many rock songs out there that feature detailed descriptions of violence. Especially since in rap its to raise awareness about suffering that many people cannot avoid because of where they live and their background.
From how I've interpreted it, I think Scorcese should be more talking about how the only things that will be greenlit by mainstream studios (read: massive media conglomerates like Disney or Warner Bros.) are the things that will most definitely make them a ton of money. This means only making movies based on pre-existing ideas, such as the Marvel stuff and many of the films that D'Angelo showed on screen in this video like Paw Patrol or Saw X, that have huge followings already and will draw audiences. And with those movies' huge budgets and marketing, there's less room for smaller productions (the "grassroots" films) to be made/promoted. I'm more irritated with the studios' emphasis on turning a profit over the art and enjoyment of creating and consuming art, and I think on some level, Scorcese is as well, although he is kind of coming across as "old man yells at cloud".
yeah I think it's kinda... depressing? that his attempts to defend the variety that we can find in theaters legitimately proved that the overwhelming majority of them are IPs/sequels. If anything it really proves the point about the issues the film industry is struggling with
On my way to grab water while watching this video I heard my elderly dad talking about how nobody reads books anymore, so I haven’t finished this video, but I already know it’s true
Any time I'm reading a book in the park it never fails that several old people will come up to me and say "Wow, I can't believe you're reading a book! I never see young people reading anymore." And I'm confused because every time I go to the library to get a new book I see far more teens and young adults than elderly people.
I'm always reading, just not physical books. They probably can't tell cuz we're usually reading on apps/online or listening to audiobooks. It's a lot more accessible at home than libraries now is all.
I mean, back in the day when they didn’t have internet, reading was probably one of the few things you could do. But just because you were reading a lot does not mean you were reading something smart. Bunch of cheesy love novels were popular back then.
i think scorcese's trying to point out disney's hegemony on film industry especially through MCU and how it will affect other filmmakers, but of course he can't exactly say that so i think he said the "not art" argument just to say it safe? even though he's one of the big players i don't think he can criticize disney bluntly. ur points still valid tho i just think you might miss some important pieces here.
Martin Scorsese’s comment is super judgemental but there is a real point there! The lack of money in cinema caused by piracy and streaming has meant cinemas have been dominated by mcu, Star Wars, and remakes. While there is nothing wrong with marvel or Star Wars (the remakes is another story), the move towards movies that are guaranteed to make money is a problem for indie cinema and leads to less variety in what we see.
I'm older, but not as old as Martin Scorsese. If I were younger, I would probably be more irritated by his comments about where cinema is going. As I'm older and have had my share of film studies and film history, I get what he means. There's an incredible reduction of the numbers of cinema houses and places to see a wider variety of films. A share of smaller films do show up online, on TH-cam, Vimeo, and other places, but there's also the difficulty of discovery and connection to a wider audience. There's also a smaller number of original large-scale films being made by new talent, and very little in the way of anything like development deals for those artists. I'll stop there, but this is one of my favorite topics and I could go longer. Regarding rap, it started when I was young. Of course it's music. I'm surprised and impressed that it keeps going. I love what I came up with, and there's new rap I also love. You do have to learn how to listen, though. Some people never grow to appreciate it, or bother to find anything they enjoy.
The funny thing about the yelling part from Keith Richards is that his band is fronted by Mick Jagger. Someone who wasn't known for their singing abilties and was more acknowledged for their expressive style, which guess what? Was often quite shouty and loud.
this reminds me of how a lot of people (usually gen x) will complain about how rock/metal/punk/etc.. "is dead" but really just dont like the way that the genre has a evolved. They aren't willing to accept Poppy, Bob Vylan, gayle, Scene Queen, Relict, etc... as part of the modern alternative scene
@@sonderfulsable and they aren't obligated too! if people want to still be in nostalgia let them. stop acting like those older artists didn't pave the way.
While I think some people here are taking your Scorsese critique far too personally, as someone who considers him a spiritual / creative soulmate, I can see where they're coming from. Unlike Keith Richards, Martin Scorsese has done 👏 the 👏 work 👏. Not only does he have a brilliant mind for the business of cinema, he's also one of the few true artists we have in mainstream pop culture. To this day, he is one of the best mainstream filmmakers who can convey complex facets of the human experience in an unabashedly entertaining way. And he knows better than anyone the value of a blockbuster popcorn movie as much as an arthouse horror film, for instance. Frankly, the people guilty of the hyper-commodification of cinema are ALSO "elderly" lol. They treat the creation of art like a Ford Model T assembly line-hence why they think AI can do it-rather than a deeply human, idiosyncratic, and intimate process. What I think he's lamenting is that the _intent_ of filmmaking has shifted from *expression and entertainment* to *making more even money, faster*. To that end, Marvel and all its copycats have taken the exact wrong lessons from their initial success and have effectively run the genre-if not the entire industry-into the ground. Which, to your point, is nothing new; however, the race to the top (or is it the bottom?) is so much faster and on such a larger scale than it used to be. So while on the surface I totally understand where you're coming from-and trust me, I feel you when you say that art doesn't have to mean something to be art-I think there's much more nuance and validity to what Martin Scorsese than this particular critique addresses.
You're so talented! Love the mix of styles you've got in that track, and great lyrics, too. I was not expecting a rando track at the end of the vid, and that wuz FIRE! Where can I head more of your stuff?
Okay, I'm commenting before watching, but if it's about that cursed "theme parks" interview and Marvel fanboys messed up reaction to it, I'd be a cautious of just seeing it as "old person" take. Scorsese is a master of his craft & values filmmaking as an artform. He's also very knowledgeable about the craft (he had a whole TV show about if I'm correct) and the theatre going experience. In the piece he laments the formulaic filmmaking that necessitates the "build up" in the Marvel franchise and how it removes agency from the director/writer (case and point: Edgar Wright and the first Ant-Man movie. He quit after the suits forced him to scrap his more wacky ideas for AM since it didn't fit their 50 years planned in advance plan for the franchise. Marvel pays good in order dull filmmakers creativity.) It's "theme park" films because they're the only films shown in a lot theatres, the story are secondary to the action and setting up for the next film or the next superhero's introduction to the franchise and not creating a stand-alone and fleshed out narrative of its own (its the "you need to watch the 10+ preceding films to understand the new film about an obscure villian") He doesn't say, it's not films, like some Marvel fanboys cried on Twitter after they only read the headline, but that the films lost it heart the more the franchise produced and focused on overconsumption and negating creativity for uniformity. Heck, this is why I myself stopped watching Marvel movies and superheroes movies in general. They started becoming all exactly the same & the fight scene in the third act always gives me a migraine (from boredom and I guess the effects mess with my eyes, which can be a side effect from the rushed VFX work). And Black Widow's death, pfff, they finally lost me there. A lot of Marvel fanboys said that Scorsese also makes the same "violent" films, which is absolutely laughable and shows that some of those with Twitter fingers saw maybe 3 Scorsese films in their lives. You know the guy who made a musical, multiple religious films, documentaries, a period drama, and an adaptation of a children's book?? Yeah, this guy doesn't have any range. 🙄
fully fully agree with you. i think dangelo totally missed the point on this one, especially when there are so many amazing video essays made by really awesome youtubers that validate all of scorcese’s points.
I 100% agree with you. After Endgame, I only watched No Way Home on theatres. A few others I watched at home and had to skip through scenes because of how boring and predictable most movies were. Honestly people praise the NWH movie so much but I found it overrated. Sure it had it moments. William Defoe did good job, Andrew Garfield saving MJ was a nice moment. But that's just it there were good moments but the film as a whole felt meh for me. During the pandemic I actually spend my time watching some good movies. Watching a good movies feels different. If I had to describe it I'd say it's the same as having eating your favorite meal till your stomach is full. It's fulfilling. Most superhero movies don't give me that feeling. The exceptions being, the Tobey's Spider-Man movies , the Dark knight trilogy, The Batman, Spider-Verse movies, Ironman 1, Joker. But joker is basically a Scorsese movie with how much of Taxi Driver and King of Comedy there is.
@@suchangburagohain this comment is 100% it. all those movies you pointed out- they were helmed by creatives, artists, auteurs that were granted control to create an artistic vision, not a mass marketed advertisement to sell a toy or the next tv show. that’s why those movies are sooo good. superhero movies aren’t bad, blockbusters aren’t bad. movies that lack creative vision from filmmakers are bad, movies written by studios and executives are bad, and dangelo severely misses the point.
Im a 67 yr old female. Those two men have lived very nice lives. Very protected lives. Because of their careers they think their opinions matter and should be given the utmost importance. Having said that, i thiink pop, rap, are very interesting music. When NWA was popular ii felt their music fit what was going on in the world perfectly. Tupac amazing artist. Music is a thing that every person can find something that fits their lives and emotions. Do i enjoy country, some of it, classical very much enjoy the history of it. Kpop, absolutely enjoy that music. Dont let anyones opinion stop you from enjoying things or the music you enjoy. Stay healthy, happy and safe always. ROCK ON😂😂😂😂
Problem is that Scorsese’s points (about the monopolization of factory-made action franchises and his belief that cinema should be a more personal art form than that) always get boiled down to “Old man hates comic book movies.” He says they’re not for him, that’s fine, but social media always twists his words into things that sound like insults toward the people who love them. And the cycle just continues with all of us fighting each other instead of focusing on the real problem, which is the corporatization of an art form.
This may sound very weird, but my dad genuinely disliked rap, and he had (4 adopted black children) from very abusive situations, definitely gonna make you raise an eyebrow reading that, but he kept me very in touch with my culture took me to Africa, learned how to braid and took me to a lot of spaces that were black dominated. I watched him punch a school administrator j didn’t understand but I had just been called the n word for the first time by my very own principal. He used to say “turn that “shi off” when I listened to rap, he was more of the “dad rock” music taste, and he’s also a bit older mid 60s, so he liked his 80s-90s anything but rap. however he LOVED LOVED gangsta paradise by coolio, knew all the worlds. it was his number 1 song, right behind “living on a prayer” by non jovi, he loved bb king, Tom petty, red hot chilli peppers, chainsmokers Adele, Natasha bedingfeild etc, took me to my first concert which was Selena Gomez, I even got to see dua open for Troy sayvon when he was just starting out. He knew all the words to Ms.Jackson too. I even asked him if he thought it was weird that he adopted black children but detests rap, and he simply said he didn’t like itit simply wasn’t his taste, but he never would have dared say it wasn’t music
@4:22 - You are not wrong, since Rolling Stone and Led Zeppelin took a lot of their licks from Blues musicians like Muddy Water, they sound similar in structure.
I am 58 years old and white. I don't care for a lot of modern music. But it's not meant for me. So. I listen to what I like and mind my business. ETA: Rolling Stones are now elevator music. Live long enough, and you hear the songs of your youth at the grocery store. And the Rolling Stones got where they are becabof BLACK musicians.
Okay the first guy sucks but Martin Scorsese is right. Marvel movies are basically fast food of art, no substance whatsoever, and watching too many of those and nothing else is what’s making us media illiterate
People don't think the MCU is just what movies are, that's what the studios think and try to push because they see it as an easy way to generate money, which is not and that's why most cinematic universes they've tried to launch have failed. Again, people don't think movies have to be franchises, there's been a push for original content and this year's biggest office box hits reflect this, but this won't stop studios from trying to make a business out of them and pushing for a Mattel universe, for example.
I think when people dismiss pop music, they are often dismissing music aimed at girls. Female pop artists and boybands are popular because girls and young women have ALOT of control over what is mainstream and popular. Of course girls and young women don't all have the same taste so only "the girliest" music gets sh*t on. and the rest is what "guys with good taste" listen to. Even though it's pretty gender neutral universal stuff they make music about. Also people hated the beatles and elvis and nirvana because it was popular mainstream music. (Not everyone just grumppots mostly) but now they are some of the most revered musicians in history so 🤷♀️
am i so out of touch??? no, it's the children who are wrong 😤
WOO
Awesome 😂
How is being anti-marvel an elderly take or Out of Touch? They peaked with the first Ironman. Marvel is already falling out of the cultural zeitgeist.
Marvel movies will not be remembered in 5 years time. It’s delusional to think that any of their movies will stand the test of time. Lowest common denominator trash.
Marvel movies have been terrible for the culture. Their worst offense is birthing an entire generation of corny, irony-obsessed, quip-obsessed writers that couldn’t write a sincere piece of dialogue to save their lives.
Their so-called ‘directors’ barely get any creative freedom or say. It’s the same boring, paint by numbers slop every time. Scorsese is right.
Also, let’s not forget Disney’s terrible business practices when it comes to movie theaters.
ur literally so out of touch it hurts. this guy makes movies for a living but you just walked up to him like "I did my own research and google says other movies are on in cinemas near me so ur wrong actually" as if 2 seconds of googling outweighs a literal lifetime of experience. he's clearly talking about the gradual encroachment of blockbuster movies on the medium as a whole, muscling out smaller independent works. there are 3 or 4 movies of this budget and scale a year nowadays, far more than ever before. it's definitely affecting people's perceptions of what a movie is the same way loads of people think video games are just COD and FIFA because that's all they see.
I love your content but Marvel still sucks my dude xoxo
The glaring irony is that a lot of classical composers and jazz artists would've called The Rolling Stones cheap pop music.
Even a good amount of classic rock fans would say the same thing.
In all fairness, I'd say Keith Richards was probably including the Stones (or much of its library) in the category of cheap pop music. It was a little self-effacing.
Oh my god yes 😂😂
@@6thwilbury2331nah, I highly doubt it.
Thank You! Live on!@@jaybee4118
I feel like part of the reason why people are like “ugh older music is so much better current music is trash” kind of overlooks the fact that “older music” has already had the time for the glut of unpopular stuff to be forgotten, leaving only the stuff folks like in their memory. On the other hand, current music is… current. There hasn’t been time to sort out the timeless stuff from the unpopular.
THIS. The 80s were literally a TERRIBLE time for mainstream music, as were the 70s. 99% of the popular songs you heard (over and over and over) on the radio were absolute garbage. It's only decades later that the handful of decent songs you only heard in underground clubs are being used in car and beer commercials. Folks talk about how great songs were "back in the day." Uh, no ... They was tons of crap out there that you literally couldn't escape between the radio, the mall, MTV, etc.
This is such a good point, and I’d never thought of it myself,!
same with movies. we remember cassablance, and the good the bad and the ugly. no one remembers the 57 tarzan sequels they made in the 50s! (not a joke, they made 57 of those suckers, but cinema was never repitive until the mcu apparently!)
Oh tea-
Yeah for anyone who actually gives a shit about music there's never been a better time! Back in my parents time the music you listened to was determined by what was playing on the radio and what you could find at a local music store, and if you didn't like what was popular at the time you were shit outta luck. My dad talks about how much he hated the 90s for music, because he can't stand grunge (neither can I lol. makes me feel like shit) but so much of what was getting played and replayed on the radio or that he could find in stores was grunge.
Nowadays if I can't fucking stand pop music, just really wanna claw my ears out anytime I hear harry styles or taylor swift, I can just put my headphones in and listen to literally anything else. Like if you wanna hear music that sounds like van halen, you can just look up a reccomendation list and immediately find like 20 new bands that all sound like that. If I want to listen to a song that sounds like how getting mauled by a werewolf feels, I can find that. Literally anyone who thinks music is worse than it's ever been should learn how to use a computer because it is such a skill issue lol
I genuinely wonder if these musicians would say the same things about Abba (which is 100% pop music).
wtf debe ser la segunda o tercera vez q t encuentro en un video de d’angelo danna hahahhsgz💕
Or Michael Jackson, i dare them
If anyone comes for abba I’ll start a riot
They were disco queens and kings at the beggining ❤. Yet, I don't mind them or disco itself being called or categorized as part of pop, because really, pop music is just so broad. It genuinely makes you wonder of who are they talking about when they say those things, or if they even really know what they are talking about to begin with.
Abba is 100% trash. Just terrible. That said, a lot of pop is just fine. Swift is amazing, sheeran is good. Also nothing Brings me more Joy than eurovision every spring 😊
For the Marvel argument, Scorese worded it badly but he's kinda right. A lot of movies are escapism, which isn't bad, but anything run by Disney is so processed that the only artistic elements are like the writers, the acting, the filming and the CGI everything else. It's impressive what the Marvel actors are doing, because they're acting in front of a green screen holding motion tracking shells of props which get their true look from CGI, and there's very little left to go on. Disney and Marvel are, last time I checked, over-using CGI for all special effects because CGI is the last part of the film making process to be unionized, so they're easier to exploit and over-work. The props are CGI, the costumes are CGI, the sets are CGI, etc. As soon as there's an advancement with CGI all past CGI ends up losing quality by comparison, but really good practical effects (costuming, makeup, set building, prop making, etc) usually last longer. Yes, CGI is good for sets that get completely destroyed, costumes with too many moving parts or lights, and fake fires and such, but I feel like there needs to be more of a balance between practical effects and computer effects.
I'm not saying no movies can be escapism, but Disney especially has been focused on live-action remakes, or sequels of already existing franchises. The writer's strike could've had an effect on that, but I honestly believe Disney hasn't made a new idea since before the strike. One of the reasons Barbie and Oppenheimer did so well, was probably because they were both new (to the screen) stories. There are enough writers in the world, and I'm sure a lot of them have new stories and maybe new worlds with characters we haven't seen yet.
Like my issue with Marvel is the fact that Disney/Marvel are studios that are too big to not be coming up with new stories. There are probably hundreds of Marvel characters we haven't seen yet on screen, I think we can shift our focus away from the main like seven characters now, and just get anything new on screen. Scorese is kinda yelling at a cloud in this article, but let's try to avoid an entertainment monopoly forming.
Ehhhh, sorta but not quite. Scorsese has opened up about escapism ever since the 80s when he had to helm more commercial projects during the end of the New Hollywood era, he doesn't necessarily dislike escapism as a whole but more than he dislikes "escapism of incredible sentimentality" which he finds to be pandering and superficial, he doesn't have a preference for fantasy per se but he'd rather take Star Wars (or a good Western) over Rocky. It's kinda amazing how much he dislikes Rocky, so much so that we tend to forget that Raging Bull pretty much works as an anti-Rocky film.
His point about the entertainment monopoly forming under Disney and everything else in the article is generally correct, however, his critique only goes so far as being anti-monopolistic as opposed to being anti-capitalistic, so it ends up stopping where it is, commending certain studio films while reprimanding others without delving into their fundamental problem. And reaping the benefits under the current system for as long as he has for undoubtedly noble and further good, you can understand how conflicted he is at identifying the core problem, even in his interviews in the early 90s he has been ambivalent about the funding system. On one hand, it's a profit-driven system that prioritizes money over art, on the other hand, it gives Scorsese the ability to take on enormous risks that pay off in tremendous ways.
As someone who works in VFX (not in the US thou), it's a complicated problem I rarely see anyone outside the industry get it correctly. Most gets it right that Marvel abuses the sh*t out of their workers and overrun them with post-production fixes. The lack of unionization is a significant problem not only because of nightmare clients like Marvel but also because of messy corporal management and the mistreatment of overseas workers from within the contracted VFX houses (most VFX in Hollywood production aren't done in the U.S.). Effective unionization would only solve a fraction of the problem (though still a large fraction that we should inevitably push for) on a domestic scale since it'd require a global mobilization effort to also stop studios from treating their outsourced workers like crap. Also, there's this separation between CGI and VFX which as a compositor I generally dislike because of how misleading they're often used outside of work, but things like green screens which often help with set replacement or extensions have become a fundamental part of every commercial production. The assumptions that less VFX more practical effect = better or that digital effects are replacing practical ones are kind of dumbfounded (and often ignore the overlap in such departments). Marvel is infamously overused in post-fixes but practical and digital effects still go hand-in-hand in cases that don't, both Barbie and Top Gun contain thousands of VFX shots which they cowardly hide to promote their stuff as VFX-free. And computer-generated effects from 20 years ago still holds up when they're made with care and with proper R&D (Spiderman 3 workflow is still reused with minimal changes in No Way Home)
27 films (7 biopics), 17 documentaries, led the creation of the film foundation that has restored and perserved nearly 1,000 films from around the world. Scorsesse is not an Entertainer, he is a HISTORIAN and educator that has single handedly done more for every culture in the world than Disney will ever do in it's entire existence.
Nobody will remember some interchangable youtuber with rambling generic drama content. Scorsesse will be remembered for a long time.
@@ajhakami6584 So mad over an opinion. Pathetic lmao
@revenge3265 lmao, whatever makes you feel better. All I did was state a few FACTS, and the only emotion was boredom because the only time I watch trash content is to literally combat insomnia. These attention vampires won't get much more than that from me, but you're welcome to continue with the free entertainment :)
i aint reading allat
I low key agree with Scorcese on the film industry. It’s not that people want to watch marvel what’s the problem it’s that the way films are made has changed so much. I started loving the marvel films but they got repetitive and empty so fast.
I feel like traditional low brow art forms used to be more spontaneous, more scrappy, more fun. Now everything is polished and pretty boring.
It’s a shame because there are so much more fun stories if they didn’t polish everything to the max to make it marketable for the highest amount of people.
At the same time the film industry is a business at the end of they day with workers who have families to feed.
There are more people lining up to support franchises and sequels they know they won't even like then there are people supporting new and upcoming films. (Like how Jurassic World made millions from people going to hate watch it).
I know in my own city there are always people lining up to see the next Marvel film, but few actually going to see local or non-franchise films. The same people will complain that the industry is overrun with sequels and remakes
@@seacutiecumberi have to agree here. as much as i understand how disappointing (for some) it can be that the film industry is just pumping out as many crowd-pleasers as they possibly can, i also understand that it’s the classic supply and demand. if another run of the mill sequel is making a lot more than an indie or standalone movie, then it only makes sense that that’s the route directors want to take. i’m very much in two minds about this subject
The big issue is that you can only milk something for so long until it runs dry. Less and less people are tuning in to watch these movies, while the budgets are extremely high. This means that you gotta fill a lot more seats just to break even. Mid budget films didn’t need as much box office revenue to make a profit. They also continued to make money through post theater sales. A lot of Marvel movies, with some standout exceptions, don’t have enough rewatch value to even think of making up the difference in lost theater revenue, even if people were still buying DVDs, simply because the budgets were so high and the marketing is so extensive.
The superhero stories that make it to the big screen are either bottom pf the barrell stuff or so stripped down and sterilized they cease to have any connection with the stories that inspired it. It sucks especially since the negative press then goes back to the comics and discourages even more people from reading.
@billbill6094 Exactly! Trying to convince people that comics are good and have value as a art form and that there's a reason why so many people like them and really there's a lot of diversity in the tone and themes of different series just please give them a chance, already sucks.
The movies make it an even harder sell because people who've never read a comic see them as a worse version of the movies when they're completely different mediums who usually aim to tell very different stories. My favourite comics focus on interpersonal relationships and have very low stakes, but the movies usually can't tell that kind of story because of runtime, so everything has to be about saving the world.
Sorry for the rant, I just needed to get that off my chest
D’angelo you SNAPPED on that ending song. You’ve got such a pleasant tone to your voice - speaking and singing!! The talent is overflowing.
He was great. Would unironically really like to hear that song on Spotify
Literally!!!!
It is getting under my skin that we can't have more D'Angelo music...
YES PLEASE ID LOVE TO HEAR MORE
Low key a bop! I wanna listen to it again and again 🤣
I was a rock snob when I was a teenager. I thought only rock music was 'real' music and all pop was empty and dumb. Luckily I grew out of that and realized there's artists in every genre I like for a lot of different moods. It's awesome to have a broad scala of genres to listen to. :) Love that this dude never outgrew this 'only rock is real music' phase.
I think what makes it funny is that when he was young playing rock in the 60's and 70's, old people of that time probably didn't consider rock as music.
Thank god I outgrew that, I was insufferable lol
@KarolYuuki exactly alot of hypocrisy in that statement
Ugh same. I used to be “rock music is superior and i hate pink” now pop music is one of my most listened to genres and wear pink dresses
Same here! and a lot of my elitism was also pretty much validated by rock artists whom I admired and who said exactly the same thing >.< I did outgrow that and I also think that limiting belief that only rock is music kept me from discovering and enjoying other really great artists making amazing music.
this is why I love Elton John, he has such a feel for the current pulse of pop music, embraces new artists and helps boost their art to the mainstream. Super cool to have him featured on Gaga and Lil Nas X tracks and feature Britney Spears and Dua Lipa. He’s so smart to use his legacy and still reinvent
Isn't he buddy buddy with woody Allen? An actual predator
he's lying. he's not an idiot. it's called staying relevant.
Elton and Gaga were good friends with Epstein... think about that for a while.
He was also on a Fall Out Boy album
Marty knows his history, so he knows about the blockbuster period of cinema that lasted decades, way before Marvel. Cinema is cyclical, so what he's saying about the studios lately (specifically Disney) very much is what needs to be discussed regarding his words.
Okay why is nobody talking about how smooth that song was???? you did a great job man holy smokes
RIGHT?? was looking for this comment
RIGHT??? Like his voice is so good AAA
Look who it is though! D’Angelo is just so good at so many things I’m not surprised!😊😂
I was looking for this comment because I felt gaslit
IKRRRRR
Martin Scorsese isn't wrong tbh Disney forces movie theaters to play their big releases to play in over 50% of their theaters and stay there for up to three weeks. Disney actually did try to push out The Hateful 8 when it came out in 2015 when The Force Awakens came out.
Yep! Can confirm, worked at a theater when this happened. This was terrible for smaller single screen theaters
Only this past year with most Superheroes movies flopping theatres are finally giving more screens to other movies.
Yeah. And even tho some people are lucky enough to live near an area with a small or arthouse threatre like myself to view indie or non mainstream (Big blockbuster) releases regularly, or a threatre so big it basically plays everything, plenty of people have to drive far to see that stuff.
Hell, there are some movies I have to take an hour long car ride to see them in the giant megaplex nowhere near my home. And I live close to a city area. I can't imagine someone living in a more rural place trying to see something like Inside staring Willem Dafoe, which came out this year and was awesome but barely released anywhere.
Scorsese is absolutely correct and im getting the feeling that youre unwilling to properly listen to his perspective. He started directing and getting recognition in the 70s, which was a great time for indie cinema in Hollywood. It was also where the makings of the modern blovkbuster started, with movies like the original Star Wars, but there was equal space for The Exorcist, Mean Streets, Dog Day Afternoon, Taxi Driver etc. He himself is only slightly younger than the entire artform of film and audiovisual art itself. He has seen some shit. His argument is not at all about lowbrow vs highbrow art, because most of his movies ARE lowbrow. His argument is about the future of cinema and Hollywood possibly being shaped by franchises and big budget mainstream films instead of singular and comolete visions of work. He is completely right about the fact that Marvel movies actively harm the reach and business of smaller films. Even a film like Everything Everywhere All At Once could not be seen in many countries and rural America because theatres could only run the latest Spiderman movie and had no space for it. This negatively impacts both audiences and filmmakers in the long run! His opinion cannot be compared to the ignorant and racist comments of some out of touch musician, because he ISNT out of touch. He has been in this industry for most of his lifetime. He is still an integral part of it. And even this late in his career after having gained international acclaim and relevance, he could not find a single person willing to finace The Irishman (a film being made in the most Scorcese genre of gangster crime films, starring some of the biggest, most notorious actors to have worked in this genre) until Netflix picked it up. If someone on the level of Martin Scorcese can face these problems, what about the newer filmmakers and artists?
Also, what is this statement at 16:20 all about?? "I just want to move past art having to mean something"?? You can have your meaningless movies all you want, but those meaningless movies are blocking the accessibility and reach of movies that DO mean something and are made by people who actually ARE passionate about what theyre doing and what they have to say.
Adding more: it's not as simple as Marvel movies or franchise movies being the "popular genre" of our time. It's the fact that they're literally making up a chunk of what most audiences are getting to see in theatres. There has never been a time in history where audiences were bombarded with ONLY teen films, ONLY zombie films, ONLY westerns or romcoms or anything else. He has been through many, many decades where most movies being seen by general audiences were based on original stories and were intended to be stand alone ventures. Obviously it is jarring for him to see such a radical shift since then! He is not dismissing lowbrow cinema, one of the examples of movies that he considers to be cinema is literally the lowbrow masterpiece Some Like It Hot. And I think calling superhero movies not cinema and "theme park films" is correct as well. For example, i don't think the directors and writers of the latest Antman and Shazam/Black Adam or The Flash were thinking of these films as original works of art or had much personal investment in them. Because they're literally being made to prop up massive global franchises instead of conveying any original vision in terms of acting, special effects, or even costuming and makeup. The creators themselves would not classify these films as "art". Kevin Fiege and the Universal and Disney guys keep talking about their shows and films as "content" instead of art. This betrays their intent with this output. This isn't "cinema", these are products.
@@theholypopechodeii4367 i think for anything to classify as art it has to be made for creative reasons and not just monetary. I agree that all art isn't good and that bad art exists but even notoriously bad films like The Room were made as a creative outlet by people with a vision of what they wanted to achieve. If a film is being made as a product, hastily, for monetary reasons solely and with no care being given by anyone (producers, directors, writers, actors, fx and cg crew etc.) towards any creative expression or achievement of a creative vision then I do not think it counts as art. similarly, there is a difference between a content creator making TH-cam shorts about the latest celebrity or internet gossip without going in depth and a content creator like defunctland or anyone who makes video essays as a creative outlet instead of treating them solely as a source of income or clout
@@theholypopechodeii4367 the quality of the end result is one part of it. But I'm saying that art needs to be made by artists. Not people looking for a cheque. If you are engaging with a piece of art, you have to also in part engage with what the artist behind it has to say. If the artist meant to say nothing and only wanted to create another piece of "content" to be part of a factory assembly line-esque franchise, then there is no point in calling the end result "art". There are Marvel films like the GotG movies and even the Thor movies (including Kenneth Branagh ones) that can be called art and cinema but as a whole, the multiverse, cinematic universe style of filmmaking cannot be called "cinema" as it exists today.
@@theholypopechodeii4367 what pieces of art are you talking about?
@@theholypopechodeii4367 agree to disagree I guess. i don't see any problem with discounting MCU output at all in the end
Marvel is cinema as fastfood is food. It checks all the boxes but that doesn't make it good.
Theaters not showing certain movies to make room for bigger blockbusters is pretty true and has happened. Theres a pretty well-known story that back in 2015 Quentin Tarantino had a deal with a theater to have a buncha showings his new movie that year, but Disney pushed his movie out of the theater to make way for The Force Awakens. They basically threatened the theater that they'd lose out on any future business with Disney if they didn't give up those showings of Tarantino's movie to make way for Star Wars. Now yeah, boohoo big director Quentin Tarantino didn't get as many showings of his movie as he was promised, but if even his movies can get treated that way what chance do smaller directors have? What power could they ever hold over big corporations and their 5 bajillion dollar blockbuster slop.
Exactly many people sit in their bubble and are blind to these things.
Besides the only one we heard from was Tarantino because he is a big director and can afford to complain about marvel, because he has no plans to work for them.
But most smaller director don't even have platform to complain or people won't hear them even if they do. And that is if they even voice their complains in the first place.
Disney is a behemoth. Eventually they'd probably own every film company there is. Offending them means not getting hired for any project under disney. Heck with their reach they could even stop small directors from being hired by other companies, although I doubt they'd go out there to do that but it's still a possibility.
Scorsese made at least one good point, even if he missed the mark on others: movies that exist as elaborate advertising for other products (toys, lunch boxes, etc) are fundamentally different from movies that exist on their own. In fact, enough superhero and Disney movies have only netted even because of licensed product sales that it's hard to believe they would be worth the risk of investment, that so many of them would even exist, if they didn't function as ads. This changes the risk/ reward analysis for investors toward stories that wouldn't be made if they weren't tied to products in other markets. And on a psychological level for the audience, yeah, I think there's a good point there that the underlying affect on our consumption choices means we probably do experience those movies differently.
Yep and some of us are completely bored with everything being made to sell other things. Just make a good movie and stop spamming sequels. Hollywood ruins good film
There's also something to be said for original characters and storylines. I have seen most of the MCU material, but the issue I have with them is that the story arcs are practically all familiar from previous movies, TV shows or the most common comics themselves. I mean, shit. A great example is the "Sandman" franchise (which is actually DC, but same difference), which I love as graphic novels, thoroughly enjoy as audio books and now am kind of bored with when watching the show, even with the acting and production being great. And no, those minor changes made at each iteration aren't enough, especially if they don't make sense in the grand picture or add anything meaningful to the story.
I think Martin Scorcese is a very smart and adorable short king who's correct roughly 80% of the time. I also personally believe that media literacy is at an all-time low. Just look at Logan Paul's reaction to Nope.
scorcese's take on the mcu is way more valid than "rap is crap" lol
Yea he explains his point a bit better at a directors round table interview, which I think Greta gerwig was as too. Like overall these giant big budget movies, mostly comic book movies, had been the only movies drawing audiences to theaters. Especially right as covid restrictions were lightening up. Only big budget movies were drawing in audiences and even then not even making as much money as predicted. Until this summer with Oppenheimer and Barbie neither being a sequel or superhero movie. A great sign for original story and auteur movies
see, I think media literacy is low, but I doubt it has ever really been higher
I do think it's very funny that he brought up Chris Nolan as someone who is saving Cinema from superhero movies.
Nolan, who directed 3 Batman movies.
@@NathanielSnider1017 i loved just writes video on the pirates of the Caribbean trilogy. it looks at the artistry in those old action blockbusters and how it’s largely missing from many recent mcu films
D’Angelo casually dropping a banger at the end…CHEFS KISS!
Martin Scorsese has restored, promoted and financed more diverse world-cinema than literally anyone else in the history of film. Projects and funds he created have directly employed more women and people of color than every Marvel film combined. Empowering underrepresented communities to influence cinema is his life work. He's one the most important figures of modern culture. To reduce any interview of his to "elderly take" is pathetically ignorant. The fact he also happens to be one of the greatest directors of all time is just like his side-hustle.
I think the issue with Martin is that he gets too hung up on Marvel itself instead of talking more generally about the film industry and about what is or isn't "art". And that's why the good points he makes get lost on the "elderly takes" because D'Angelo is right that saying Marvel movies don't convey anything or cause any emotion just because he doesn't particularly likes them is missing the mark as much as rockstarts who are judmental about people liking pop and/or rap. The problem isn't the content of the movies itself, because if audiences prefer it he will have to deal with it. And at the end of the day, audiences are not stupid. Marvel is on a decline BECAUSE their stories are getting worse and worse. So maybe the focus should be less on what is or isn't cinema and more on what's ruining the film industry, such as the greed from the studios, the quantity over quality, which clearly affects even franchizes.
Lol does diversity mean he can't be wrong? Imagine calling someone pathetic but ass kissing someone just bcs of movies. He's not wrong that more indie work needs to be promoted, but it's pathetically ignorant to think comic book movies don't have deep meaning. It just means you can't critically analyze what it would be....
Rap doesn’t speak to me, but why should it? I’m a sixty-four year old white guy. I was born in a different time and place, lived through different experiences, faced different problems.
Who wants to live in a world where music doesn’t speak to people where they are and about their experiences?
I don’t like rap, and that’s ok. It’s not about me nor for me.
High key……we need a D’Angelo album drop STAT. That was a total bop 😂
I know! I heard that song and was like I need this. It is a fun silly song that makes me happy.
We need it on streaming!!
This is the first time I’m actually asking a TH-camr to do more music lol
FR
RIGHT? SO GOOD
I didn’t take Scorcese’s takes as just “new fun stuff not good, old school better”. It is a critique against the constant churning of block buster films, through boiling them down to formulas. In other words, he is critiquing the fact that the biggest films come from production companies that deliver roughly the same material 3-4 times a year, instead of taking the risks some used to in the 70s. Now there are still people who do, but they are just not as common or popular as the pack of 20 marvel films that are constantly in production.
but shark tale *wasnt* a glorified cash grab that was riding off the coattails of nothing but the celebrity voice cast and shrek's success? (...not that im complaining - will smith fish)
but i still think he’s wrong with that… the popularity of barbie and a24 i think proves that. like one of the biggest horror movies this year was an australian, indie movie by first time directors. there is still diversity in the film industry and sometimes marvel is the one making it (e.g. spiderverse)
@@katemartin113Barbie is one of the most well known dolls in the world. Besides they spent more on marketing the movie than they did on the movie itself.
Even if the movie only broke even they would not have lost any money because of the increased doll sales.
Now Mattel is planning other toy movies. I hope they don't become the next marvel.
@@katemartin113 Spider-verse is a Sony movie, actually. It was made in association with Marvel, due to Spider-Man's current character licensing, but it was produced by Sony, so I wouldn't give Marvel Entertainment much credit for it.
@@katemartin113I mean he did make this point in like 2019 when marvel was more movie focused than series focused. People really sensationalized it and made it seen like he was attacking marvel or elevating himself but he was really just trying to highlight that disney using its corporate power to dominate theaters with formulaic content was pushing out (like actually) films made by other people, about a diverse array of stories in a diverse array of genres simply for the sake of film vs for the sake if franchises and merchandise sales. Its sad to make it out like he's being hater instead of saying that he wants to see unique stories instead of the same thing over and over and give new audiences exposure to different styles of film. Even if you say MCU stories are unique from each other...you have to admit they're all filmed extremely similarly. Its not a "low brow vs high brow" thing. Movie theaters are better about it right now, I just think people should have more of a chance to see different things.
Give it to D’Angelo to surprise us with his musical talents!
You are killing it, can we get more songs like that, paired with your excellent and thoughtful commentary?
Thank you D’Angelo ❤
I know right😭 It was such a beautiful suprise, he did great. Multitalented man.
When's the album gonna drooop
Is everyone gaslighting me?!
That
wasn't him singing I swear.
I'm sure he wrote the song but omg that was a totally different persons voice.
Different tone, pitch, timbre... literally sounded nothing like him.
You completely misunderstood Scorsese's point. Marvel has killed the small and mid budget movie and 90% of what we have in cinemas rn is remakes, sequels or adaptations of already popular IP. That stiffles creativity and cinema is worse off as a result. Marty is authentically passionate about cinema and cares about what the state of cinema will be once he's gone.
Nah you don't get that he sees comic book franchises as not having true meaning. But even if they're cash grabs, theyre not done lazily and the people working on them also care. There's actual trash like Sharknado but even then they're meant to be bad
Dave Gahan what are you doing here
This is a valid point! But I’m pretty sure Scorsese just wanted to hate on marvel, no deep thoughts involved lol
Explain film studios like A24? They put out great content that aren't tent pole films. One even snagged a few Oscars last year.
i love how people pick and choose to make their own point. you ignoring a lot of the other shit he said actually means you're very intelligent!
bruh really showed up, filmed 9 videos in one sitting, and dipped 💀
People in general, not just old people, tend to confuse "I don't like this" with "It's garbage". There are excellent Marvel movies, not many though, and rap is more than music, it's poetry when done right.
@@KaleighCeeExactly this!
always frustrates me when someone says "I don't like this thing" and I'm like "oh, I kinda liked it" and they're like "actually you're wrong, you can't like it because it's objectively bad so your opinion is wrong and you have shit taste" like???
To piggyback off of this: what is right?
Your statement is kind writing tooc saying rap is poetry. Rap can be poetry, it doesn’t have to be.
Marvel went from decent to complete drivel with a boring formula and it’s pushed down tons of smaller, more original movies.
Honestly, I cannot imagine NOT expanding my musical horizons. These people are so close-minded. When you are close minded to new things, it can really shut you off from experiencing something amazing. I hate that for them.
fr!!! ESPECIALLY if you're a music artist yourself, it can open your eyes and even if you're not the biggest fan of it, it can definitely make your art sound better because you are willing to experiment and try things from different styles !
Bruh, listen to Keiichi Okabe’s music from NieR; Replicant and NieR; Automata. Most of the songs are in a made up language blended from 20 different languages, it’s like orchestral music mixed with Gregorian chant, Dark Souls boss music, and pop ballads. It’s some of the most relaxing and also heartbreaking music ever. Shadowlord is a boss song that takes place during basically the destruction of humanity, A Beautiful Song is about a lost soul who did too much for another’s pleasure and lost herself in the process, and f*ck dude “Emil” all versions are amazing. Just a suggestion, it’s awesome and so are the games. ❤️
I’m 50 and much to my own dismay, I’m kind of finding it hard to get into new music. I’m not saying it’s bad as these old men are saying (can’t stand Keith Richards anyway, he’s always been a dick), but music ends up getting referential so it’s just sounding like music from my childhood, teens and now even my 20s and early 30s. Just like the music in the late 80s and early was referential of the 60s and 70s, which annoyed my mum back then lol
Personally I’m autistic and really struggle to get myself to listen to something new. I tend to play the same 8 songs on repeat and struggle to listen to new ones but I am working on being able to
I'm not closed-minded. At least I hope I'm not.
It just takes a lot of energy for me to try new experiences (like going to new places, playing new games, trying new music, food, tv shows) so I'm not doing it as often. Those things always come with the risk of setting off my sensory issues.
That being said, I love learning new things! I watch a lot of commentary TH-cam so I can understand the world better. I try to intentionally challenge my own thinking.
I'm also autistic like the person who commented above me. I find comfort in repetition too, and I'm sure that plays a role in why I might not branch out as much in my tastes.
Alright, on Scorsese's "Marvel takes". I hate that the media deliberately sensationalises his argument to make it seem that he has some vendetta against superhero movies, but what it really is is a conversation about studios churning out products for profit vs artists trying to express themselves. When the business model of the big studios is literally to pump out as many similar products as they can, it comes at the cost of the opportunities for smaller artists to find an audience (and get funding).
And on what you showed of the movies playing in your local theatre, most of them are still franchise films (which is what he's really talking about), and that is a first world country theatre. In a developing country (like mine), we literally only get franchise films. Never reruns. A Scorsese will only (maybe) get 1 week of screening months after initial release, where as the latest franchise film will be out for months on end from premiere to whenever the cash cow runs dry. It's not that one is "higher" than the other, but there is most DEFINITELY a disparity. I think if you in any way agree with the notion that corporations get in the way of artists expressing themselves authentically, you should agree with what he's saying.
I feel like getting immediately into identity politics of ’’boomers’’ vs everything good, instead of engaging with the actual points Scorcese - an unequivocal titan of cinema that has a very long experience within the industry, have seen how it evolved, how it fell and rose again, that actively works to include more marginalised people in cinema since like forever - makes is a great illustration of a great problem of our generation, which is overpraising youthfulness and dismissing aging and older people. By doing that, we actively erase our collective memory. That’s why with social issues, we restart so many discussions that have already happened 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago. Martin is saying I’ve seen this before but at a smaller scale, and we should beware, and you defend Disney’s corporate machine instead of listening. We lose so much time running on empty and yet we too, one day, will become old.
honestly was really disappointing how knee-jerk d'angellos response seemed. A rare L for him here and it really seemed to be so critical and unwilling to engage in good faith which seems so unsual for him... I was honestly kinda shocked how emotionally charged he seemed about this one...
I agree.
Love everything about this comment.
He is't a Boomer
Boomers invented Hip Hop
lolz
The take on Scorsese is uninformed. Disney literally went out of their way to bully theaters & cinemas to not play his film Kundun at the behest of the Chinese government. It’s part of their business model to push out other films from being viewed when they get theaters to display their films. They pressure them into giving up the majority of ticket sales, making the cinema more expensive and less likely that people will risk seeing something less familiar. When he talks about them, he’s talking about the business model of studios and how they’re engineered to be without meaning so they’re more easily distributed to countries that have extreme human rights violations. Marvel/DC movies have a few exceptions when it comes to quality, but they are few. Ultimately, the issue is with the executive class who decide what movies get made, not with young audience members that enjoy that selection of movies. There has been a half year long strike going on, because they literally want to use AI and digital scans of people to replace actors and writers, with Marvel/Disney having already used these methods for years now. All so producers and executives can make even more then they already don’t deserve to make. Sometimes the elderly shake their fists at the young because they’re young, and sometimes the young shake their fists at the elderly because they’re elderly. Keith Richards is out of touch. BYYYEEE
On the film front, I will say that I think marty's got a point in the sense that with superhero movies turning into these huge, all-encompassing franchises in the last decade or so they probably divert more resources and interest from big studios than any other popular film genre did before them, and that it's probably much harder to pitch a one-off movie to a studio (especially if you're not a super famous and respected director, like Nolan, Greta Gerwig or Scorcese himself) now than it ever was before. But that doesn't make marvel movies non-cinema, even if most of us are kind of sick of them at this point
it also confuses cause and effect - he's framing it like the movies are responsible for the studio decisions, rather than studio decisions being responsible for the movies. the mcu has the symptoms of a lot of the problems in modern hollywood, but it's the cause of none of them - corporate greed, and disney's growing monopoly, is. (also if you're going to yell at movies for starting a trend of repitive overly expensive cg-heavy movies, bayformers did it first!)
its also q funny how he says ppl like him and nolan need to save cinema when if he really cared, he should have named up and coming independent directors whose movies Do Not automatically get greenlit just from their name and who lost opportunities to the franchise films
@@SapphykinsShit has gotten way more intense with Marvel entering the scene and Disney sucking up other business titans like droplets, taking out the competition, building a monopoly, and going all in with franchises and remakes! But shit started back in the eighties with action franchises like Lethal Weapon. Even dramas like Rocky and Rambo were watered down into franchises, 'murica propaganda and increasing formulaicness and mindlessness. Don't even get me started on RoboCop...
Super hero movies literally dominated cinema rooms and PUSHED indie movies out to streaming services and Disney themselves admitted to manipulating the market to push their sup movies. So it does effect culture and cinema
When my favorite director and actor both talk about the problem of indie films not being able to play at cinemas because of Marvel films
Yes but I think there is an argument to say they did not succeed, and I would argue that Scorcese is making it sound like the MCU makes people not understand cinema and hence the world
@@jasonmillsom2981I mean .. the MCU sucks so
@@ElPresidenteMargz I mean it's subjective, I think scorcese is upset that not everyone goes to the cinema or watches the movie to challenged and would rather be entertained, plus I would argue the gotg films have great themes and tackle darker topics, but it would not surprise me if scorcese has not seen them or if he did if he missed the overall themes of the film, due to his dismissal of superhero movies altogether
agreed
i think theirs a bit more context to martins take on marvel, which is that when marvel movies DO play they usually take up ALL the room in the theater. There was a quenton tarantino interview a while back where he said he had rented out space for a new movie of his to be shown in the cinerama dome but when it came closer to release he got booted out of his spot because disney was going to be showing starwars and they would not let his film show there or else they wouldnt allow the theater to show starwars. jamie lee curtis also complained about this when everything everywhere all at once was showing at the same time as the new doctor strange. When you checked your local showtimes and there was no superhero movies showing its because the MCU pushed back all their releases because of the actors strike not allowing actors to promote films
Reducing Scorsese's opinion to simply 'Marvel Bad' is honestly kind of insulting. That's totally not what he was saying.
I used to dislike rap music, or i would judge rap artists through the lens of my life. Luckily, i grew out of that, realizing where rap came from and what it actually represents. I still prefer 90s rap, but it's such an amazing genre, and it's nothing like what so many people claim it is.
I do have a problem with the MCU but that's more down to the unethical production practices rather than the quality of storytelling itself.
The whole business model is dependent on the exploitation on VFX artists. I am over the moon about the fact that they have recently unionised.
I think they’ve totally overtaken movie theatres and movie culture. There’s way fewer interesting movies at the theatres than there used to be.
It makes money so I understand why, but I also miss watching good dramas and having superhero movies still feel fun (because they weren’t spammed out).
all i want is cartoons too, no movie, just some mildly ok animated cartoons with long runtimes. i was happy with marvel TAS and the DCAU. you don't need all that budget, forget the normies, they don't really love you, they won't watch your silly poorly animated cartoons and buy your toys but i will. forget them honey, they don't matter. you know it was always me all along, don't you
👏💯🎉
With Keith Richards, it definitely feels like eltism from him, especially with the whole “rap bad” narrative.
With Martin Scorsese I get him a lot more. I don’t think that marvel movies aren’t cinema, inarguably they are, and the way he’s putting it it’s definitely elitism coming from him. You can like marvel things and that doesn’t make you dumb. But I can also see why he’s so anxious about it, because I think the MCU is definitely a lot bigger than some fad, and the amount of shows and movies being made just to supplement the MCU is kind of absurd, I don’t know the consequences of that, if that gets in the way of other lesser known independent films. but personally I think it’s reasonable to be terrified of Disney’s media production machines.
It reminds me almost of video games, where huge companies are getting away with progressively more predatory monetary practices and it’s legitimately concerning. Because a generation of kids is being raised up ok video games where like half of them have gambling and all of them want to steal your money.
The MCU is also kind of a symptom of a much much much larger problem with the entertainment industry as a whole, where companies only want to bankroll "safe bets" of remakes, reboots, and adaptations of already popular IPs. This is a depressingly common story around animation in particular for TV and the like. I do think a lot of people took the MCU criticism as a personal attack, but really it's the studios' fault. Many creative people are pitching new ideas, it's just that big corporations don't wanna invest in things that they're not 100% sure will print money as a result. Which is how we get crap like ""live action"" Lion King remake.
@@YlimegirlCool This is so true! Like OP said, liking MCU movies or TV shows doesn't make anyone less than, but the underlayer of what's been happening in the industry as a whole, the bigger picture of it is that the art of cinema does suffer as a result. The art of cinema doesn't need to necessarily be pinned down (let's not go the entire way into elitism) but indie movie makers (for example) stand absolutely no chance in front of giants like Disney, et al.
@@YlimegirlCool thank you for commenting exactly what I was going to comment haha. I think the point here is that Marvel is the new face of entertainment companies using the same formula over and over, just because it gives A LOT of money and by that, all the investment goes to these movies and leave the creative and bold ideas with very little investment.
I think that’s what Scorcese means, even though he got lost in the “good vs bad cinema” discourse and also used pretty bad examples of what his ideal of cinema is
I don’t think it’s really about super hero movies, mostly about franchises. Like…Movies aren’t allowed to be stand alone films anymore. They’re all sequels/prequels/adaptations/remakes. It’s not all movies, obvs. But there are so many that it’s getting tired even for fans.
Keith Richards comments about pop and hiphop and Scorsese's comments about the MCU aren't similar at all, man. Richards comes from a place of ignorance, misinformation, and a refusal to adapt to the music landscape for reasons you stated: both genres have so many different subgenres that to say it all sounds the same is just hella inaccurate. Plus, a rockstar saying that he's tired of an artform where they "yell" at him is hilarious.
Scorsese's are infinitely more valid. You argue that he wants cinema to adhere to one specific type of art when that's the opposite of what he's arguing for! He's arguing for a much more diverse landscape of film! Obviously, MCU films have their purpose and I like/enjoy quite a few of them. But if that's the only thing that culture keeps pushing and marketing for along with sequels, reboots, and remakes -- especially at the expense of new and original stories -- that's a bad thing! To chalk that up to old man yelling at cloud because it's a popular thing he's critiquing is a bad faith reading into what he's saying.
I'm sorry but Scorsese is right, I think of it as food
Cinema is gourmet
Marvel is fast food
You can like the store hotdog but don't call it gourmet
I think you're misunderstanding Scorcese's argument about cinema and Marvel movies. He's not saying that independent filmmaking is dead, and he's not saying that this new genre is killing cinema, he's saying that this new way of filmmaking, this new way to produce content and cinematic universes is killing cinema. Popular franchises like Marvel, DC, and Star Wars are all no longer treating their films and shows as art but rather as simply a financial investment, content for the sake of content with no real meaning or message aside from safe themes and the fact that they continually make money. This is driving these series into the ground with so many shows and movies it would be impossible for the average person to keep up, which means that less important content with fewer people watching can't impact the overall "cinema universe story" or else mainstream viewers will be lost, relegating these stories, shows and films to this odd purgatory of storytelling where ultimately, nothing is said, and nothing of value is added.
This can be seen with Star Wars, and you said yourself you had no desire to keep up with all the Marvel content, and to your point about the Barbie move there have even been talks and rumors circulating about a possible Matel cinematic universe. This is Scorcese's point, that films are losing their value and simply being relegated to for-profit content which ultimately could change the way movies are made by studios, and frankly, I think he's right.
Well said. This is the best response and interpretation of Scorsese's entire point. It's really sad and disappointing that D'angelo missed his point and essentially went on a rant without properly understanding where Scorsese was coming from, but i doubt he would take back what hes already said in his video. For someone who usually does research into his video topics, D'angelp couldn't even tell that the interviewer twisted Scorsese's words. In my opinion, it's quite eye-opening that someone who has been a part of the entertainment industry and knows how studios work and think for so long is being dragged down by people like D,angelo simply because i guess he's "old."
@yangz3774Idk this is so elitist tbh. Barbie was an objectively good movie.
@@angelwings967elitist?? it literally was the first step in Mattel launching yet another franchise
Yall act like making movies was never for profit bfr
@notaurenotsure2732 Of course, making money is always the goal, but making films is synonymous with creating art. It's supposed to be created with passion and artistic integrity. Films now are being created with neither of those in mind and simply created ONLY for the sake of making money. The film industry has become more corporate now than ever before, and it couldn't be more evident than film industry executives attempting to implement the use of A.I. in replacement of actual writers.
Counterpoint: I'm a 59 year old woman and I think all you kids are adorable! Except for the ones eating red pills and playing around with cyrpto, of course. I don't have to understand what you like to respect it.
i love this comment-- the way you made crypto-bros and red-pilled people sound like children swallowing extra vitamin gummies or playing with pokemon cards is my absolute favorite thing
Only red pill I eat is Tylenol bc mfs give me a headache
@@MaddMo0n legendary response. May I use that?
@@Last_God_of_Mortis feel free lol
@@MaddMo0n heck yeah
Rap music is music. Modern cinema has gotten weak. Marvel movies and generic block busters over saturate whole business. However, Barbie and Oppenheimer have shown that genuinely fantastic films make money. So I'm hopeful for the future.
DONT FORGET PUSS IN BOOTS I LOVE HIM 😭😭😭
I mean, Oppenheimer could have been far better in some departments (mainly some of the treatment of the women in it) however I do agree, both are great examples of modern cinema.
Christopher Nolan seems to be the only director allowed to make movies like that anymore though
Oppenheimer and Barbie are a bit different.
One is a Chris Nolan movies, he's probably the most well known director out there. And Barbie is also an well known product not to mention the amount they spent on promoting the movie.
Most original movies won't have the same conditions.
Of course these past couple years the people are becoming tired of the formulaic superhero movies which also played a role in these two movies becoming such a hit.
i think it has more to do with whats asking people to leave the house and whats not,. on top of the fact that you don't wanna see a truly good movie with allot of people. home viewing really is much better for immersion. I go see movies in theaters when i know people being rude during the film won't bother me. the whole cinema thing has outstayed it's welcome. refering to the big screen and all that. it's nothing special, we have tvs at home and wanna smoke weed and eat
I had no idea D’Angelo could sing like that holy shit. Gorgeous voice
That wasn’t his voice… am I the only one that’s hearing this??
I’m sure he wrote it but that wasn’t him singing for sure.
Ok what Keith Richards said about Pop/Rap music was stupid and reductive. It does make him seem like an ignorant old man.
BUT
Scorsese is 100% right about MCU. And I'm saying this as someone who is also 25 years old. I used to really enjoy super hero movies. I'm not some intellectual snob who looks down on things just because they're popular but the whole superhero genre has become so grossly over saturated and devoid of creativity and substance that there just no longer fun to me at all. You can literally tell with 95% of them that its just about making money and nothing else. To be clear, I'm not saying superhero films should have to have loads of substance to be good but there should be enough that you actually are interested and engaged in what's happening. It shouldn't all feel tedious and formulaic. I think since the avengers films it's just become to much about having an epic spectacle with a flashy cast rather than having a compelling plot, with good writing and developed characters because that's what they think will do best at the box office.
And you can see the knock on effect it has had on other things too. Everybody wants to set up their own cinematic universe now because they've seen what an endless cash cow it can be. Why bother coming up with new stories and characters when you can just rehash the same shit. Just absolutely rinse it for all its worth and then some. Until it ceases to be any fun. Like what they've done. with the star wars franchise. It's not just that it's low brow. I can enjoy low brow. it's just really lazy and not entertaining. And if I feel this way I can totally understand how a creative genius like Scorsese would be a little frustrated by it. I think your wrong about this D'Angelo, I don't think he's worried out of concern for himself being overlooked. He's far too well established at this point. It's the next generation of creative directors. And it makes sense because marvel films are so dominant. The comment he made about it being manufactured content and almost like AI was writing the script. LOL I have actually thought that before. I don't think we're too far off from that. If you still enjoy them then fine, I know a lot of people do bit i reckon everyone must have their limit. I would not just dismiss what he said as an "elderly take" though.
As a musician and a person who really loves music , The thing about music is it is literally art. You shouldn’t be so negative about calling certain music terrible or mid or not calling it music at all. Be more open with new music as well and it is ok to definitely not like every genre of music or song there is ever. But you have to respect everyone opinion and appreciate the music.
Literally I listen to Yoko Shimimura’s composition from kingdom hearts, Iron Maiden, and crunk music from the 2000’s in the same playlist. It’s lame to say bad things about music that has saved people’s lives. Linkin Park saved mine, it makes me sad when people say they’re glad Chester k!lled himself because his music sucked. Like bro who hurt you
OKAY HOLD UP
Can we just take a min to appreciate how much D’angelos music slaps?!
Hoping for moreeee 🤞🏻
I was about to say!!! 😳 does he actually have more music?
Legit can I add it on Spotify pls?
RIGHT! I snapped out of wat i was thinkin and in my depressed stuper actually cracked a real smile for the first time in weeks. ❤
D'Angelo, you showing the cinema line-up of films is proving Scorsese's point! It's not about superhero films, he is talking about the franchise-ification of films- Saw X (sequel), Expend4ables (sequel), Paw Patrol (IP movie), The Nun II (sequel), A Haunting in Venice (sequel), The Equalizer 3 (sequel), My Big Fat Greek Wedding 3 (Sequel), Blue Beetle (IP movie), TMNT (IP movie), Gran Turismo (IP movie), even Barbie isn't original IP. Scorsese cares a lot about film making and people being able to create original content and inventive films, and seems bothered that all studios push or put money towards now is movies based on pre-existing IP because they have a built in audience. That's all! Maybe he is being a bit old mannish about it, but it isn't as simple as him hating superheroes lol
I wish i could pin this comment
Such a rare L take from D'angelo. A big L
Maybe he could actually get his point across without hinting at it and many wouldn’t have missed his point, he just sounds like a bitter old racist man
@@erinys2its pretty evident
@notaurenotsure2732 He did get his point across. The interviewer twisted his words around, and despite that, many people still understood exactly what he meant. If you couldn't comprehend what he was clearly talking about to the point that someone else online had to break it down for you to understand his point, then he's not the problem. You are.
That musical number was so unexpected and angelic, it sent shivers through down my spine fr
Scorsese is right, but what’s interesting is that he was making a serious critical analysis: he was objectively saying that Marvel movies don’t address what serious films do, that Marvel movies unashamedly just try to entertain and thrill without addressing anything deeper, so comparing them to ride films was entirely appropriate. It was Francis Ford Coppola who was more straightforward, saying that Marvel movies are crap.
I do hate that people twisted what Scorsese said as some 1950s romanticizing of old white movies when he has been saying that the Korean film industry is heavily overlooked by the west and people only started embracing the more serious Korean films only after k-pop and kdramas blew up. Ironically, I think people like scorsese fighting for art theaters is better for foreign films because arr theaters are the only place that support foreign films to the same extent they support American films. Laemle used to be the only place in my areas you could watch Indian films and now I have to drive an hour because small theaters are closing and big theaters are being bought out by franchises. As someone who’s not into Marvel movies, it gets increasingly more difficult to go to the theater to watch movies I DO like because they’re being pushed out. As a Bengali it was really exciting to see people like Wes Anderson remake a scene from a Bengali art film director to allude to something in his own movie.
Agree with this, but i sort of giggled at Ray being called a Bengali art film director (even though he is)
Fun fact: old people in every generation complain about the new generations music. I do it to my son, my dad did it to me, my grandfather did it to him and so on and so forth. I’m sure it goes back to the beginning of human’s making music. And film.
Why perpetuate if you understand what's happening?
@@InsoIence they affirmatively identify with that pattern and think it's a good thing
@outb4thecount tell me you're afraid of even positive changes without, like, using those words 😘
Complaining about younger generations has been going on at least since the old Greeks. Funny that people still think that they are being original when doing it.
Meanwhile me, my parents, my younger sister, and my grandparents are all liking the same music and chilling
Thank you for existing and expressing yourself so gracefully for our ears!
I don't agree with 100% of Scorcese's points, but I DO think he touches upon a salient point about a lot of Marvel movies acting as 'content' and a way to sell tangential products, rather than stories told for the sake of telling stories. That doesn't mean there isn't earnest work put into them by the individuals who make them, it doesn't mean they can't touch people in earnest ways, nor does it mean we have to get rid of all frivolous, just-for-fun media, but I think it's important to zoom out an examine the context and reason these are made and the wider effect they're having on pop culture, seeing as they are produced by the largest media corporation in the world. Calling them theme-park-movies feels honestly kind of accurate when you consider Disney's aggressive work to tie their franchises into their theme parks. Disney's movies, by and large, act as giant, extended advertisements for their other products, and it's important to recognize that as their goal when trying to asses them under nebulous idea of 'artistic merit', as well as the way these churned out, tent-pole blockbusters have actively pushed smaller films out of theaters. Idk I just don't think this is wholly an 'old man yells at cloud' situation, when that cloud is literally the Walt Disney Corporation.
if d'angelo decides to drop any music WE WILL BE STREAMING
i’m not gonna lie i do agree with scorcese - not because marvel/comic movies are “low brow” but because they have declined in quality just to satiate the masses. like spiderverse is a great example of a comic book movie that was fantastically well done both visually and story-wise. i just think that studios producing movies are thinking less about movies as story and more about movies as product. i think movies and music can be silly and don’t have to be deep, but i think they should be made with heart (best recent example of this is barbie: so fun, so silly, and you can tell that everyone had fun making it).
But movies and music are made with heart
I think Scorsese was more talking about the industry of franchise films dominating theaters and keeping independent and original films from being played in theaters. Trash is fun, I mean who doesn’t like watching something you can turn your brain off to, but
it’s an over abundance of… that. It’s definitely gotten better tho, the last 2 years have been better for films, mostly bc we’re seeing more films that aren’t superhero films coming out, and if they are, they’re interesting and different (Spider-Verse).
The reason Barbenhiemer was even an event is because it was 2 films by auteurs coming out the same day, and they actually had big budgets, which is rare. And it paid off bc the movies were actually fantastic. Who knew?
I agree with your music takes 100% but I felt Scorsese had an actual point here besides “marvel bad”.
Idk, if this is the same interview that keeps being brought up and taken out of context- Scorsese has a lot of good points, and some meh ones.
For me, it's more about the genericization/monopolization of fewer and fewer companies and how instead of 'cinema' we just get 'a movie'- less about the experience and more like a forgettable theme park ride.
I can name the number of recent movies I'd be able to watch again and be enjoying on one hand. There's a real difference in how movies have been made over time, with different studios preferring different methods- and with so few companies tearing up the industry into different kingdoms, it's hard for those individual movies to stand out
YOOOOO THAT ENDING
this is literally the best era to discover music you like and avoid music you dont like.
i dont go out my way to dislike taylor swift, if i hear music in public i dislike, i tune it out or have my earbuds handy to listen to my favorite silly little noises.
if i want to discover new music, i can browse and research smaller artists and bands and be completely fulfilled. it feels like a waste of energy to hate music i dont like when i can be discovering my next favorite song.
Exactly I'm the same way now more than I was younger I focused on artist I like and don't go out my way to hate musicians to hate on them I just don't give them the time of day I listen to artists that I like or I can relate to.
17:21 And if some men in tights keep you up at night, then go make a mobster movie cuz that's what you're good at, right? 🤣🤣
ain’t nothing wrong with a B movie, they become treasured over the years because of nostalgic feelings and that’s wonderful!
Keith Richards: I don't like rap because I don't like music where people yell at me.
Keith's band, the Rolling Stones: HEY YOU GET OFFA MY CLOUD!!!
And plus didn't a lot of early punk consist of yelling too?
I grew up in the 90's listening to the oldies station, and for YEARS I thought it was GET OFFA MY PLOW. Very different concept.
@@RubyLikeWhoa oh my god, that's all I'm going to be able to hear now!
I think people are fixating on the brand & genre of marvel and comic book movies, when, to me, it sounds like Marty is trying to talk about the factory line construction of these films. A lot of the decisions about the story, and action are decided by executives in a board room years before they go into production. These movies have release dates first, scripts second.
He views film as an art, and he works to preserve world cinema. To me, it sounds like he wants the art of filmmaking to survive instead of all films being about being billion dollar hits.
I’m sure there are a lot of people with emotional connections to marvel movies, I was a big marvel fan and saw every movie in theaters up until recently. But the problem is if that’s all you see, then Chris Nolan looks like arthouse cinema. there’s a limited depth of storytelling and emotional complexity there, and it’s if you only eat candy itll stunt your growth.
But D'angelo's point is that there's massively popular movies that don't fit that mold, so regardless of the production behind Marvel films, (which have definitely lost a large following after the conclusion of infinity war), there will be successful films in various styles across all facets. Claiming that Marvel is poisoning the well is a very pessimistic view of humanity's ability to appreciate art.
Yeah, it's honestly a bit condescending (of Scorsese) to assume that the population is only being exposed to Marvel movies (or Marvel-esque movies), like we're just dumb sheep incapable of seeking out anything else. I don't think I know a single person who only consumes Marvel content. That argument is just ludicrous.
@@TeeklGreyYou haven’t spoken to a teenager in the past 5 years if you don’t know anyone who has only ever seen Marvel and/or Disney movies only. These people will be adults in a few years and are going to be the cultural tastemakers when they start earning money. And what media do you think they’re going to start consuming then? People are more likely to stick to what they know than branch out.
Okay, but Scorsese only talked about marvel *once* four years ago during an interview when he was *literally* asked to give his opinion. Can people have opinions and just be. The man had to write an OpEd just to justify his opinion about *marvel* like he denied the holocaust or something. Besides, Marvel is having a tough time holding on to its audience, even the comic lovers. There are dozens of articles on “superhero fatigue”. So maybe he wasn’t so “out of touch” lol.
Studying musical History in college, I always found it funny how a lot of white Christian classical composers said that Jazz music was not music in the early 20th century. Jazz was dominated by black, Hispanic, mixed race and Jewish people. Jazz has its roots in Blues which was exclusively African -American music in the 19th century. Just when white people call rap 'non music' today, they're basically as racist as the white people slamming Jazz back then.
Whenever people make statements like these I think, "Why can't you just let people enjoy what they enjoy?" Even if certain media isn't my personal taste, as long as it isn't full of bigotry, I'm glad if someone gets meaning from or likes it. And your song was great!
I feel like this about my ripped jeans too lol like the most annoying part of ripped jeans is all the old people pointing out "hey you got holes in your pants. You paid money for those? WOW" lol yes I DID and I AM wearing the jeans I PAID FOR on MY OWN body minding MY OWN business! I'm not commenting on your tan slacks with your super wedgie and visible granny panty underwear lines 💀💀 just let people be and express themselves how they want as long as it isn't hurting anyone!
@itsme-s. I dunno, haven’t people been paying top dollar for pre-distressed and ripped clothing since the punk era? I’m thinking this has less to do with the age of the people you’re interacting with, and more to do with their particular cultural blinders. At this point plenty of grandparents were paying for ripped jeans when they were younger, and I literally haven’t encountered anyone under 80 who talks like that about distressed clothing (and even then it’s incredibly rare, because again, ripped jeans are hardly a rare or rebellious statement thing at this point). Unless, that is, they’re doing it simply because they don’t know what to say to someone younger, but they want to interact with them; so they just say something that they think will fulfil a stereotype of what they “should” be saying, and so provide an easy roadmap for a social interaction. Older person tells younger person “surely you didn’t pay money for that!” in response to item that is currently fashionable, so that younger person can roll their eyes and say “yeah, it’s what’s fashionable, everyone is doing it”. But let’s be realistic, middle aged people also wear ripped jeans; it’s hardly something unique to the young or to modern fashion. At this point it’s a pretty well-established trend going back a whole bunch of decades, as much of a staple as micro miniskirts or wearing a leather jacket and boots with a dress 🤷♀️
@mandipandi303 I second all of this! well said
people are allowed to express themselves just like people are allowed to have opinions about that. it goes both ways, get over it.
@@pumpumdttway to miss the entire point.
Oh, no, not the Scorcese thing, it's such a cursed discourse. This drama is manufactured and so very ancient. Bad journalists purposefully go out of their way to prompt Directors to say controversial things about Marvel because it is such a cultural juggernaut (or, at least, was when the whole thing happened nearly half a decade ago) that any minuscule related quote that they can jam in their titles is going to have a massive effect on their click rate. Of course, Marvel wasn't going to be to Scorsese's taste. That's why he was prompted on it. Journalist wanted a pay raise. Despite this, his point was about as milquetoast as it humanely gets. He claimed that Marvel is more akin to a theme park ride than to traditional filmmaking, which, I mean, where's the lie? Genuinely asking. Everyone, including fans, admits that it is formulaic and cash-grabby, right? I haven't seen a single Scorsese film in my life, but I really dislike the almost toxic positive mindset that respected artists aren't allowed to publicly dislike trends or influential companies in their specific domain of art. My man clearly cares about the craft and is dismayed at factory-made movies. That's fair. He's also a tad out of touch. That's normal considering what he is. At his age and level of success, I honestly think he's earned his right to be old and grumpy. The whole rap thing is different because, besides being so obviously racially charged, rap, unlike marvel, is not one single brand, it has millions of artists and subgenres. Criticizing one specific trend or artist within rap would be completely acceptable.
God bless this comment. I’ve been defending Scorsese and his points about the monopoly action franchises have on the cinema for years now because I also believe we should have all types of films available for whoever wants them, but this always just gets boiled down to “Comic book movie bad.” It’s just another way to continue internet infighting while the studios continue the same business tactics they always have
He's not senile. He can choose to not have bad takes. He chooses to answer questions about Marvel by saying "they're not cinema", over and over, and yet praises Nolan, who is so obsessed with creating amusement park-like experiences that he insisted his film had to be screened in cinemas during the height of the pandemic.
He is right on some points, but he's also close-minded.
@@theMoporterhow in the hell is Nolan a director who makes theme park rides? Dunkirk? Oppenheimer? Like come on lmfao
MEMENTO? Yeah what a simple and enjoyable movie. Pffft.
Also “they aren’t cinema” is as pretentious to argue with, as it is to agree with. Wtf is “cinema”. I’m not going to be the pretentious person pretending to know what he means.
Marvel movies are just so boring and dominate the film landscape. They’re worse than the sum of their parts.
@@theMoporteri agree that martin is a bit close minded. when he initially made his “theme park” claims back in the day, i dont think his points were entirely validated, but ultimately, he predicted their impact on the future of cinema and the film industry. nowadays, his claims are 100% undeniably valid. mravel started out with a level of artistry and oversight that forgave its materialstic and consumerist intentions, but you cant say the same about it anymore. the stories are mostly bland, repetitive, and lack the unique identity that once made them so lovable. its unfortunate and totally true. about christopher nolan- when martin mentions him, he is referring to this idea of modern auteurism that started with spielberg and jaws, this idea of huge blockbusters that are directed by artists (not producers and executives like modern day disney, marvel, star wars films, etc.) that have a creative vision that they can fully execute. this form of blockbuster movie is dying out, because studios have infinitely more control on a project then they used to have, which is what martin has a problem with, and rightfully so. less and less movies (including nolan type blockbusters) are executed by artists. also, almost every movie with attention these days is a blockbuster so the monicker of blockbuster is slowly loosing its meaning. its super interesting, there are a ton of video essays you can check out about it.
@@theMoportertrying to argue "what cinema is" against one of the most accomplished directors ever is so funny😂
Idk man, martin is pretty spot on. They are formulaic and cookie cutter. Its weird fans unanimously agreed cbms are in a trash spot but get triggered when someone old says it
It's one thing when some random old person says current gen films and superhero movies are trash without providing additional insight into why they think this way and another thing when an old man who's knowledgeable in the film industry who was able to articulate his thoughts into why current Cinema is the it is.
@@THEMAST3RARTISAN regardless who says it, they're pretty trash.
It’s so ironic that during your video I was treated to an ad for Scorcese’s new film. 😅 And your song at the end? Perfect closing to your arguments. (Chef’s kiss)
8:28 " I dont really like to hear people yelling at me" when rock is literally screaming at the top of your lungs?
I can understand if people don’t like how flooded rap music is with misogyny and stuff but that’s never their issue with it, it’s always either something racist or old.
Exactly
I don't think Scorsese's argument is that marvel isn't cinema because he doesn't like them. It's more to do with the production and mentality that goes into making them - as they are less expressions of a personal or group vision, and more paint by numbers products. And we could probably group other similar franchises in with marvel, such as fast and furious or Jurassic park. This is because the individual instalments of these franchises are not made in a way that allows them to be independent expressions, but rather they are inoffensive, made by committee, entertainment that has to rigidly follow marvels film structure (whether that be the writing, colour, direction) and advertise the rest of the franchise. They are empty calories, absolutely delicious but not nutritious. There are exceptions to this in marvel, but those tend to be either the big event film, or the ones that have a clear creative lead who have their own style (eg. Guardians 1, 2, 3, or Thor Ragnarok).
Also Scorsese's statement that big blockbusters are leaving less space for original and smaller movies is absolutely true, even in the clip that you showed only 2 or 3 of the movies weren't based on a preexisting IP.
I was shocked and didn't react well to Scorcese's opinion about Marvel. Time has passed and I agree with him more everyday.
most of my favorite rock is literally… yelling in your face. the great gig in the sky? hell yes
I gotta say i kinda agree with Scorsese on this one. I'm a learning filmmaker myself and I gotta say that these marvel movies are not good for the film industry as a whole. These scenarios are usually the ones that get picked up leaving other smaller productions to be thrown aside and not receiving any money to make the movie happen, even though they are in much bigger need of these funds. It's the same for cinema distribution, Big movies like marvel get picked first leaving the smaller movies without recognition or a space to gain an audience. Off course i'm not saying all other movies are being pushed aside and not shown anymore because right now that is not the case. But I do think it's concerning to see the trajectory that is going on with cinema right now. Also I don't wanna say that Marvel movies are not art because indeed like Scorsese said there is great work being done there by SFX people, make-up and so on and so forth but I wouldn't say they were the height of cinema. They follow a certain formula which is popular and usually don't do anything inventive which I do think makes them less of an art piece and more just entertainment, not saying that's bad. Off course people feel feelings watching these movies i'm not saying they don't and people are allowed to love these movies. I just think other movies shouldn't be pushed aside in favor of these movies.
I also gotta say I don't think Scorsese comes over as insecure here but just giving his very strong opinion. Also being around a lot of film people trust me they love expressing their opinions on cinema so I don't think this is coming from some fear to lose viewers or something he's just passionate about it. I think he knows his career is just fine.
Over all I think it's understandable that it is annoying to have people criticize your taste like that but I do think he kinda has a point when it comes to the film industry. People shouldn't bash others for liking these things but I also, from what I saw, didn't really get the vibe that he did.
If Keith Richards doesn't like black music why did him and the rolling stones steal it so much in their early career??? I mean I guess its okay to like Jazz and not like rap but its hard to hate rap without sounding racially motivated. He probably should have just said he doesn't like a lack of creativity in music. The only problem is I think music sounds more diverse and creative than ever rn.
Also I kind of see what scorsese means. I think marvel is great but I think the mid budget movie is nearly exctint. Movies need to be tied to a franchise or massive brand to be greenlit. Greta Gerwig is an amazing director but keep in mind that her last two movies were both based on existing IP. At the same time thats not really marvels fault. He talks about it in the worst way possible. I think both of them are bad at understanding why they don't like certain things.
I agree, but I think gangster rap can be very harmful. I love rap, but I can only bring myself to listen to the light-hearted stuff or songs with social/political commentary. Hearing someone brag about killing others and selling crack to the vulnerable hurts my heart.
@@chickensalad3535
When you say that; I want to know if “I shot a man in Reno” or “Cocaine” are under your definition of “very harmful”. Interesting how you had to specify gangster rap.
@@chickensalad3535 alright tell me your thoughts on all the rock songs objectifying and bragging about women (and to an extent the ones glorifying csa), the ones revolving around drugs, or the metal songs about bloodshed and war. do you consider any of that harmful as the hip hop songs about violence and drug dealing?
@@chickensalad3535 If hearing about violence or drugs in music makes you sad I totally underatand that. It's serious stuff. It just weird that only rap is criticised for stuff like this though. The rolling stone and beatles are literally famous for their drug use, not to mention the many rock songs out there that feature detailed descriptions of violence. Especially since in rap its to raise awareness about suffering that many people cannot avoid because of where they live and their background.
From how I've interpreted it, I think Scorcese should be more talking about how the only things that will be greenlit by mainstream studios (read: massive media conglomerates like Disney or Warner Bros.) are the things that will most definitely make them a ton of money. This means only making movies based on pre-existing ideas, such as the Marvel stuff and many of the films that D'Angelo showed on screen in this video like Paw Patrol or Saw X, that have huge followings already and will draw audiences. And with those movies' huge budgets and marketing, there's less room for smaller productions (the "grassroots" films) to be made/promoted. I'm more irritated with the studios' emphasis on turning a profit over the art and enjoyment of creating and consuming art, and I think on some level, Scorcese is as well, although he is kind of coming across as "old man yells at cloud".
yeah I think it's kinda... depressing? that his attempts to defend the variety that we can find in theaters legitimately proved that the overwhelming majority of them are IPs/sequels. If anything it really proves the point about the issues the film industry is struggling with
On my way to grab water while watching this video I heard my elderly dad talking about how nobody reads books anymore, so I haven’t finished this video, but I already know it’s true
Any time I'm reading a book in the park it never fails that several old people will come up to me and say "Wow, I can't believe you're reading a book! I never see young people reading anymore." And I'm confused because every time I go to the library to get a new book I see far more teens and young adults than elderly people.
@@empressmarowynn How patronizing. And rude! I don't want to talk to people when I'm reading. Mostly I don't want to talk to them at all.
Cause there's better shit to do than read books and this is coming from a writer. 😂😂😂
I'm always reading, just not physical books. They probably can't tell cuz we're usually reading on apps/online or listening to audiobooks. It's a lot more accessible at home than libraries now is all.
I mean, back in the day when they didn’t have internet, reading was probably one of the few things you could do. But just because you were reading a lot does not mean you were reading something smart. Bunch of cheesy love novels were popular back then.
i think scorcese's trying to point out disney's hegemony on film industry especially through MCU and how it will affect other filmmakers, but of course he can't exactly say that so i think he said the "not art" argument just to say it safe? even though he's one of the big players i don't think he can criticize disney bluntly. ur points still valid tho i just think you might miss some important pieces here.
Martin Scorsese’s comment is super judgemental but there is a real point there! The lack of money in cinema caused by piracy and streaming has meant cinemas have been dominated by mcu, Star Wars, and remakes. While there is nothing wrong with marvel or Star Wars (the remakes is another story), the move towards movies that are guaranteed to make money is a problem for indie cinema and leads to less variety in what we see.
I'm older, but not as old as Martin Scorsese. If I were younger, I would probably be more irritated by his comments about where cinema is going. As I'm older and have had my share of film studies and film history, I get what he means. There's an incredible reduction of the numbers of cinema houses and places to see a wider variety of films. A share of smaller films do show up online, on TH-cam, Vimeo, and other places, but there's also the difficulty of discovery and connection to a wider audience.
There's also a smaller number of original large-scale films being made by new talent, and very little in the way of anything like development deals for those artists. I'll stop there, but this is one of my favorite topics and I could go longer.
Regarding rap, it started when I was young. Of course it's music. I'm surprised and impressed that it keeps going. I love what I came up with, and there's new rap I also love. You do have to learn how to listen, though. Some people never grow to appreciate it, or bother to find anything they enjoy.
The funny thing about the yelling part from Keith Richards is that his band is fronted by Mick Jagger. Someone who wasn't known for their singing abilties and was more acknowledged for their expressive style, which guess what? Was often quite shouty and loud.
this reminds me of how a lot of people (usually gen x) will complain about how rock/metal/punk/etc.. "is dead" but really just dont like the way that the genre has a evolved.
They aren't willing to accept Poppy, Bob Vylan, gayle, Scene Queen, Relict, etc... as part of the modern alternative scene
there are genuinely so many amazing modern rock/metal/punk/etc bands, but they don't care at all about anything they didn't grow up on 😒
To be fair, people have been saying punk is dead since about a year after it emerged. This statement is lightly exaggerated.
@@mystic-malevolence true, punk has always been that kind of genre
Lol GAYLE, though? GAYLE is alternative now? "ABCDEFU" Gayle?!?!? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@sonderfulsable and they aren't obligated too! if people want to still be in nostalgia let them. stop acting like those older artists didn't pave the way.
While I think some people here are taking your Scorsese critique far too personally, as someone who considers him a spiritual / creative soulmate, I can see where they're coming from.
Unlike Keith Richards, Martin Scorsese has done 👏 the 👏 work 👏. Not only does he have a brilliant mind for the business of cinema, he's also one of the few true artists we have in mainstream pop culture. To this day, he is one of the best mainstream filmmakers who can convey complex facets of the human experience in an unabashedly entertaining way. And he knows better than anyone the value of a blockbuster popcorn movie as much as an arthouse horror film, for instance.
Frankly, the people guilty of the hyper-commodification of cinema are ALSO "elderly" lol. They treat the creation of art like a Ford Model T assembly line-hence why they think AI can do it-rather than a deeply human, idiosyncratic, and intimate process. What I think he's lamenting is that the _intent_ of filmmaking has shifted from *expression and entertainment* to *making more even money, faster*. To that end, Marvel and all its copycats have taken the exact wrong lessons from their initial success and have effectively run the genre-if not the entire industry-into the ground. Which, to your point, is nothing new; however, the race to the top (or is it the bottom?) is so much faster and on such a larger scale than it used to be.
So while on the surface I totally understand where you're coming from-and trust me, I feel you when you say that art doesn't have to mean something to be art-I think there's much more nuance and validity to what Martin Scorsese than this particular critique addresses.
You're so talented! Love the mix of styles you've got in that track, and great lyrics, too. I was not expecting a rando track at the end of the vid, and that wuz FIRE! Where can I head more of your stuff?
Okay, I'm commenting before watching, but if it's about that cursed "theme parks" interview and Marvel fanboys messed up reaction to it, I'd be a cautious of just seeing it as "old person" take. Scorsese is a master of his craft & values filmmaking as an artform. He's also very knowledgeable about the craft (he had a whole TV show about if I'm correct) and the theatre going experience. In the piece he laments the formulaic filmmaking that necessitates the "build up" in the Marvel franchise and how it removes agency from the director/writer (case and point: Edgar Wright and the first Ant-Man movie. He quit after the suits forced him to scrap his more wacky ideas for AM since it didn't fit their 50 years planned in advance plan for the franchise. Marvel pays good in order dull filmmakers creativity.)
It's "theme park" films because they're the only films shown in a lot theatres, the story are secondary to the action and setting up for the next film or the next superhero's introduction to the franchise and not creating a stand-alone and fleshed out narrative of its own (its the "you need to watch the 10+ preceding films to understand the new film about an obscure villian")
He doesn't say, it's not films, like some Marvel fanboys cried on Twitter after they only read the headline, but that the films lost it heart the more the franchise produced and focused on overconsumption and negating creativity for uniformity.
Heck, this is why I myself stopped watching Marvel movies and superheroes movies in general. They started becoming all exactly the same & the fight scene in the third act always gives me a migraine (from boredom and I guess the effects mess with my eyes, which can be a side effect from the rushed VFX work). And Black Widow's death, pfff, they finally lost me there. A lot of Marvel fanboys said that Scorsese also makes the same "violent" films, which is absolutely laughable and shows that some of those with Twitter fingers saw maybe 3 Scorsese films in their lives. You know the guy who made a musical, multiple religious films, documentaries, a period drama, and an adaptation of a children's book?? Yeah, this guy doesn't have any range. 🙄
This comment oughta be pinned
fully fully agree with you. i think dangelo totally missed the point on this one, especially when there are so many amazing video essays made by really awesome youtubers that validate all of scorcese’s points.
I 100% agree with you.
After Endgame, I only watched No Way Home on theatres. A few others I watched at home and had to skip through scenes because of how boring and predictable most movies were.
Honestly people praise the NWH movie so much but I found it overrated. Sure it had it moments. William Defoe did good job, Andrew Garfield saving MJ was a nice moment. But that's just it there were good moments but the film as a whole felt meh for me.
During the pandemic I actually spend my time watching some good movies. Watching a good movies feels different. If I had to describe it I'd say it's the same as having eating your favorite meal till your stomach is full. It's fulfilling.
Most superhero movies don't give me that feeling.
The exceptions being, the Tobey's Spider-Man movies , the Dark knight trilogy, The Batman, Spider-Verse movies, Ironman 1, Joker.
But joker is basically a Scorsese movie with how much of Taxi Driver and King of Comedy there is.
@@suchangburagohain this comment is 100% it. all those movies you pointed out- they were helmed by creatives, artists, auteurs that were granted control to create an artistic vision, not a mass marketed advertisement to sell a toy or the next tv show. that’s why those movies are sooo good. superhero movies aren’t bad, blockbusters aren’t bad. movies that lack creative vision from filmmakers are bad, movies written by studios and executives are bad, and dangelo severely misses the point.
Im a 67 yr old female. Those two men have lived very nice lives. Very protected lives. Because of their careers they think their opinions matter and should be given the utmost importance. Having said that, i thiink pop, rap, are very interesting music. When NWA was popular ii felt their music fit what was going on in the world perfectly. Tupac amazing artist. Music is a thing that every person can find something that fits their lives and emotions. Do i enjoy country, some of it, classical very much enjoy the history of it. Kpop, absolutely enjoy that music. Dont let anyones opinion stop you from enjoying things or the music you enjoy. Stay healthy, happy and safe always. ROCK ON😂😂😂😂
Problem is that Scorsese’s points (about the monopolization of factory-made action franchises and his belief that cinema should be a more personal art form than that) always get boiled down to “Old man hates comic book movies.” He says they’re not for him, that’s fine, but social media always twists his words into things that sound like insults toward the people who love them. And the cycle just continues with all of us fighting each other instead of focusing on the real problem, which is the corporatization of an art form.
EXACTLY
This may sound very weird, but my dad genuinely disliked rap, and he had (4 adopted black children) from very abusive situations, definitely gonna make you raise an eyebrow reading that, but he kept me very in touch with my culture took me to Africa, learned how to braid and took me to a lot of spaces that were black dominated. I watched him punch a school administrator j didn’t understand but I had just been called the n word for the first time by my very own principal. He used to say “turn that “shi off” when I listened to rap, he was more of the “dad rock” music taste, and he’s also a bit older mid 60s, so he liked his 80s-90s anything but rap. however he LOVED LOVED gangsta paradise by coolio, knew all the worlds. it was his number 1 song, right behind “living on a prayer” by non jovi, he loved bb king, Tom petty, red hot chilli peppers, chainsmokers Adele, Natasha bedingfeild etc, took me to my first concert which was Selena Gomez, I even got to see dua open for Troy sayvon when he was just starting out. He knew all the words to Ms.Jackson too.
I even asked him if he thought it was weird that he adopted black children but detests rap, and he simply said he didn’t like itit simply wasn’t his taste, but he never would have dared say it wasn’t music
@4:22 - You are not wrong, since Rolling Stone and Led Zeppelin took a lot of their licks from Blues musicians like Muddy Water, they sound similar in structure.
I am 58 years old and white. I don't care for a lot of modern music. But it's not meant for me. So. I listen to what I like and mind my business.
ETA: Rolling Stones are now elevator music. Live long enough, and you hear the songs of your youth at the grocery store. And the Rolling Stones got where they are becabof BLACK musicians.
Okay the first guy sucks but Martin Scorsese is right. Marvel movies are basically fast food of art, no substance whatsoever, and watching too many of those and nothing else is what’s making us media illiterate
People don't think the MCU is just what movies are, that's what the studios think and try to push because they see it as an easy way to generate money, which is not and that's why most cinematic universes they've tried to launch have failed. Again, people don't think movies have to be franchises, there's been a push for original content and this year's biggest office box hits reflect this, but this won't stop studios from trying to make a business out of them and pushing for a Mattel universe, for example.
Dangelo daily upload challenge (impossible)
Meanwhile, Mick Jagger yells almost exclusively.
Age doesn’t equal maturity. Experiences and learning from those experiences equals maturity.
Correct
blessed with the amount of uploads lately 😭
I think when people dismiss pop music, they are often dismissing music aimed at girls. Female pop artists and boybands are popular because girls and young women have ALOT of control over what is mainstream and popular. Of course girls and young women don't all have the same taste so only "the girliest" music gets sh*t on. and the rest is what "guys with good taste" listen to. Even though it's pretty gender neutral universal stuff they make music about.
Also people hated the beatles and elvis and nirvana because it was popular mainstream music. (Not everyone just grumppots mostly) but now they are some of the most revered musicians in history so 🤷♀️
You completely missed the point on what Scorcese said. And he's right - even though I have thoroughly enjoyed some movies in the MCU.
Just came back to this video to listen to the little song at the end :') I want to listen to it on replay idk why it's so lovely to listen to :)