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Here is a trick. Let them give you title that costs more while they refuse to pay more. Wait a couple months, find another job with updated title and real pay increase. Rinse-repeat until you earn enough
@JoshuaFluke1 Aura is a scam. The data broker making tons of money selling data with servers in Vietnam or some other foreign country is just going to ignore the request. Sending opt-out requests with no actual ability to enforce them, to people who have no reason to care about the requests, isn't going to achieve anything.
Years ago I was a plant manager of one shift, my Manager walks the production floor and tell me "Oh by the way congratulations, upper level announced you got promoted, You are know in charge of two shift!" When I said this is the first I'm hearing this and how much more am I getting? Manager just walked away from me. Needless to say, I was gone not too long after that.
They hired people with less experience above me then realized they are trash and asked me to manage them for free. I stupidly said yes. Now I’m telling them I’m going back to the responsibilities of my pay level and they are acting like I’m quiet quitting. And they wonder why millennials never stay for more than a few years lmao
Joshua Fluke keeping it real with the companies. Saying what we all know is true,but can't say it. Long Live Joshua Fluke ,outlive those bastards. I am. I left Reno after working for many of them. Hertz,Raley's, Goodwill - ( A recycle biz). All Fakers. Transmission sent from Albuquerque,NM 5.58p 15.9.24
You are looking at it incorrectly. You are under the false belief that HR is designed to help the employees. It can be, but that is not the primary function of HR. To understand its purpose, look no further than the title. Human Resources - The Humans are a resource that the company is try to optimize to be productive to increase wealth. HR is also called Human Capital. Human capital is the, training, knowledge, skills, and health that a company invests in to yield more profit from the asset which is the human/employee. HR and the legal department also serve to avoid litigation. HR is an arm of a corporation that is designed to protect the company and maximize profit.
A friend of mine got a dry promotion, he was promoted to manager with no salary increase. He could not refuse because it was clear they will fire him otherwise. He took the title and left 2 months later using the title and getting better pay.
Dry promotion explains 3/4 of my entire career. Stuck in life circumstances than required me to put up with it out of fear of being silent fired. I grew up with the old, "work hard stay, loyal and it will pay off" mentality and it has NEVER worked out. On the contrary when I've risked a job change it's ALWAYS benefitted well.
You're not alone, fella. I'm in the exact same boat there's literally days where I pull my hair out from the anger (read: NOT stress). Like, I need to hurt someone but the only people around are my wife and kid so me it is. I'm glad I WFH cause I'd be catching charges.
The better term for "Dry Promotion " is "Skill Theft." Let's callcit what it is. Companies want to get you to do as much as possible and pay as little as possible. If they could, they'd enslave you in a heartbeat.
I turned down a dry promotion, and I don’t regret it. They fired me 2 days after I refused the promotion, now I’m looking for another job. If I went thru with the “promotion “, I would be doing my current duties along with MORE/NEW responsibilities. I’m good.😂
@asapgoms3710 Wouldn't it have been better to take the "promotion" title, stay employed while looking for a new job... with the title they gave you? I would've said (in my head) 'oh, thank you for the opportunity to find a higher paying job! '
Real shame, sounds like a retaliation that shouldn't be legal. "do more work or you're fired!" especially if you're overtime exempt. But alas. Still got a ways to go for proper labor protections.
The management cut my wages by 17% because I didn't have that many customers. I served as many as walked in. Where will I get more? So, now it'll be $11 after taxes etc. ($15 before). Even though I did a lot helping my coworkers and doing everything else in the office, but now I realised that didn't count. Management only cares about the numbers.
Ha ha. I was a project manager. They promoted me to Regional manager so I could travel to different locations, no extra pay. I said yes and immediately put it on my resume and started looking for a new job as a Regional Manager.😂
My boss turns to me early this week to tell me he is offering my peer a new title and moving her from being an individual contributor to be a line manager with no additional pay, asking me if I would like to compete for the position, to which I said (hell) no. Then, my peer asks me, why didn’t I want to compete? I said I would rather focus on my deliverables and wait for a different opportunity. I ask her, who will be doing her job from now on, to which she said, still her. I could not hold myself: so, you are being taken advantage of, I said.
My dad was approached by his former company and they gave him a 40% raise because his skillset and experience is hard to find. My mom said: But this job position/title isn't as good as your current one. My dad and I: Job positions don't pay the bills, the income pays the bills.
@@BWite-pk1ov yup they care far too much about appearances and status. They are the reason why every job these days has a fancy title, even the most menial of admin work
I'm glad I walked away from corporate. I retrained into a trade that makes me six figures, and I have an old school pension, free health insurance, and I'm protected by a great union. I deal with none of this double speak bullsh!t, because there's actual work that needs to be done. THIS is the way.
No no no.... if the title they give you can be leveraged into a multi-dozen thousand dollar raise (hell, even +5k)... If you take it, and then use it to apply to their competitors.... that's not disrespect at all... Thats a free gift to level up your salary AND leave a horrible company. Most companies don't want to let you go that easily, they'll hide how terrible they are by giving you "just enough" to not quit while dangling more if you "just go a little further." Life gave you a lemon. It's only sour because you don't know that you can put sugar on it. To clarify... you CAN put some sugar on it. _Sweeten the deal, man._ Sweeten the deal.
that is exactly what it is - disrespect, they think they can overwhelm with you with extra work and responsibilities without any additional compensation and think you are dumb enough to take it and believe the BS
This is corporate Doublespeak. The accurate term for this arrangement would be 'Wage robbery', because the employee is expected to put more effort for the same amount of pay, effectively robbing them of the extra pay that they are entitled to with the extra effort and responsibility. But they put a positive spin on it by using the term Dry 'PROMOTION'. Basically, using a positive term for something that negatively impacts the employee.
See now I would be that person who would sit there, confused, and finally ask, "....Is this legal? I think I'm gonna have to call the labor board....." but in a very curious, confused, naive-sounding way xD
I got dry promotion last year. Took it because it switched me from annoying shift work to office work. But pay is same. And I agree, dry promotion shouldn't be encouraged.
Well better learn to stand up for urself or love being a "yes man" slave. Hope ur buddies can get out of that unworthy hell hole and get better job n income . Aint no company ur family. 🙂
been there done that 3 times , without boasting technically im recognised as one of the best in my field , i got more $$ than the branch manager , service manager and sales manager at one company but they wouldnt promote me , i spoke to the national services manager and MD and they just offered me more money , sucks because the job is physically taxing
This is a page book from any military organization: They'll give you extra-responsibilities to be added to your workload (often referred as "secondary tasks") with the lie that it will count toward your next promotion (which can be months or years away). The trap being that those secondary tasks often become more engaging than your primary which will lead you to overwork and burn out.... all of which will work AGAINST your next promotion.
In the armory those fuckers had me working on trucks, then skipped me over because if i got promoted i couldn’t do motor pool. i stopped trying and made two ranks in a year. we are fucked as a country.
This sort of happened to me an I just ended up putting in my 1 year notice and left the army. It's funny how quick they were trying to convince me to stay but I was done. Also, funnily enough, I recently received a letter asking me if I was interested in rejoining. I guess their recruitment campaign isn't going too hot
"if someone wants to punch you in the face, you should recognize that they see you in a light that they want to be physically close with you and be thankful" Gotcha 👍
Co-worker of mine got a dry promotion. Literally doing IT Architecture work for a major major corporation, but he got zero pay raise. They'll "discuss" a raise in October. He's looking for a new job.
@@AsiaThinksI do software architecture while my title is senior consultant. If they don't go me a good pay raise by end of the year, I'm out. And currently I am somewhat working in safe mode.
In tech, a dry promotion can be a good thing, but only because every sane person in tech jumps to a new employer every 2-4 years. Its a great incentive to start looking AND its good resume fodder. It might even get you some practical experience that will be useful when interviewing.
@@mattzun6779That's what I thought but that turns this into a "polite" way of saying "please go". The thing is I see managers being upset about people taking it that way and I'm completely baffled by it, like, what did you expect?
WOW! I can't believe someone figured this new thing out. It's not like companies have been doing this forever or anything. Did you guys really just notice this, or is it because someone gave it a fancy name? I knew about this in high school in the 80's "Congratulations Jimmy, you're our new team leader! You get to wear a blue shirt now!"
Only cirscumtance I would take a dry promotion is to get a nice resume so that I can jump to an actually higher paying job 6 months later at most. I'd start looking for another job right away, fuck that company.
Dry Promotion= Being Taken advantage off. Say I will ONLY accept the promotion for a fair pay raise. If they say no then just keep doing your job while looking for a new respectable employer that is not trash. If they forced you to take the promotion under duress then REALLY get aggressive on that new job hunt.
I was offered one of those more than 20 years ago, I turned it down. One manager warned me that I'd never get another offer if I turned it down. I replied then I'll go find an employer who will appreciate what I bring. I've also negotiated every promotion salary, I never took the "standard" bump. NEVER take on more responsibility for nothing.
What percent increase do you think is fair for a “promotion”. Our annual raises are typical 3-4% but with inflation at like 8-9% these past few users, I’ve essentially been given a pay cut it feels like.
@@Shadow_Banned_Conservative So did you end up moving to a different company after that? Also what percent increase do you think is fair for a “promotion”.
@@Allaiya. Nope, I didn't have to move. I sat down with the VP and took another position in the company they needed filled. I negotiated a 10% raise, split over 6 months over the 4% the manager of the department assumed I'd blindly take. I've been with the same company now for 28 years and have had several promotions over the years, turned a few more down as well. It's all relative when you talk how much money for a promotion. Are you moving one level up the career ladder, or did you jump over a step or two? Are you moving from individual contributor to management? If so, then you're going to want a huge increase because it's more hours and a lot more responsibility, and if you're a manager you also have more liabilities than you do of the individual contributor. For instance, you can be sued as an individual outside of the company if someone feels you've discriminated against them or claims some type of harassment or unfair treatment. That's worth a lot of money in my opinion and one of the promotions I've turned down over the years.
@@Allaiya.depending on the role, negotiating based on additional responsibility and value brought to the company in the new role will help. I got a 50% pay increase by talking on those topics. 2x responsibility, plus keeping largest client in check and happy meant the raise was worth the outcomes. But then you MUST deliver. Or be replaced.
The whole incentive of getting a promotion is to earn more money, not just a fancy title. The only silver lining is putting that dry promotion on your resume so you can earn a better salary....with a different employer.
This trend is gaining momentum world wide . Translation rich people are getting richer worldwide while paying people less and less while giving them more work.
It's hilarious to see people (primarily recruiters) still argue against job hopping. Companies will play a whole carrot and stick manipulation game with you to get promoted for maybe a 7% increase in salary (meanwhile, you incur 2-3x more responsibilities to finally get said promotion), while you could've just hopped into the same title for what could be a 20-30% raise in total comp. Job hopping is goated.
And especially with any actual skilled position in tech or manufacturing, they don't see a problem with the high turnover fleeting tribal knowledge. They think someone can come in and learn the job in a few weeks. Ignorant jackasses galore.
In my career I wasn't a job hopper but I did have one job change that turned into hopping. This was about 25 years ago. Went from a job I didn't really like making $35K to a startup doing quite interesting work and got a bump to $55K. Place fell apart about 6 months later and I went to another startup and another $20K pay bump to $75K. That place was on shaky financial ground (I knew that going into the deal) and our full wage amount was contingent upon the company securing the next round of financing, which never really happened. Long story short that place fell apart about a year later and I went back to the original company, which had been bought in the mean time, for yet another $20K bump to $95K. No way in the world would I have gone from $35K to anywhere near $95K if I'd stayed put - I doubt I'd have made it even to $50K counting the bump people got when the company was bought. So job hopping can work wonders. But I've also known people that have hopped around and wound up unemployed. So it's far from risk free.
I turned down a more senior position at another company that was going to pay me 25% more than what I earn now. I turned it down because I actually liked the work I was doing. Even today, I wake up and kick myself.
@@HaggisMuncher-69-420 I did a similar. I left a large corp with great pay and benefits (full medical, stock grants, ESPP) for a much smaller company. A little less pay but way less benefits. Those 13 years at that smaller company were the best in my career and I'm not one bit sorry about the reduced compensation :) Life's too short to work with a-holes.
You must receive alot of hate from corporate businesses. Thank you for the work you do, bringing sanity back to the workplace conversation. Best excuse ive heard personally for being non promotable was "too essential to operations to promote" slap in the face.
@@Gizziiusa Dry benefits. That's a good one. The premiums are going up and the coverage is going down, but now we're calling it the "Premium Coverage".
Well you could take Joshua's advice and ensure you'll never have lasting employment with any company for the rest of your life. You'll be unemployed most of the time...but hey, at least you won't be a doormat.
In a way, this has been going on for decades in computer programming, especially web development. They call it being a "Fullstack developer" now. So I started out making web pages then doing the backend logic was added to the mix. Fair enough since the two work closely together. Then being the Server Admin was tacked on. Wait, this used to be a separate job. Not busy enough I guess, being a DBA was added as requirement of working in this field- a complete career option in the past. Then being a "Dev Ops" guy became a thing, but why not just add that to the list of things you have to know as a programmer? Naturally, you also must do BA and QA work too (dressed up as "Test Driven Development") because why not? A job listing can have 20+ requirements now...its insanity and the young guys are brainwashed into thinking being a techno-swiss army knife is "normal".
They have the bottom of the barrel work culture from what I've seen, even worse than Japan. The level of arrogance among their corporate leaders is likely a result of the genuine classism that's still rooted there.
@@jacobg8640 As an Indian I agree with you. So many of us are trapped in here and we are getting offered peanuts for the work we do. My friends are working as web developers and literally get paid 200 dollars a month & they often stretch their working hours without OT.
Depends. If you get an internship that actually trains you, then that's fine, for maybe 3 months. Network maybe get your foot in the door afterwards. But if they're just making you scrub toilets and get their food, not actually doing the work you intend to do then no.
Yeah I learned my lesson on that the hard way. Those still didn’t help me land a good job after graduation, so good to know I was basically unpaid labor. Not that it was hard work or anything but still had to use gas to get there and use up my time.
After reading the comments, I feel like a dry promotion is a good thing. The company is essentially helping you find a better paying job instead of firing you
Increment letter? Promotions? I’ve been in my role for three years, still on the same pay grade as new grads. When I ask why, I get told, “Only way to get promoted is to leave the company and come back.” If I leave, I ain’t ever coming back.
This is actually true though for most companies. For whatever reason, your previous salary just gets "forgotten" when you leave and come back. But this is assuming you spent at least 1-2y away. When you get to that point they have "no idea" if your previous salaray or the projections if you stayed, are accurate. If you were projected to only grow your salary by 5k over the next 2y, but you leave for 2y; they presume you "upskilled" to the point that it makes their previous projections off-base. Also, as a now-external hire, they can justify the bump as a "poaching key talent from competitors" thing, instead of "wasting raises on people who are too self-loathing to leave." They will also see you as someone who needs to be "incentivised" to 1) accept the offer, and 2) not leave again. So if you leave and come back, you are not only more likely to get a higher pay, but also more likely to be promoted (on average)... since most of them don't like messing with salary bands by having people be "overpaid" for their level of responsibility (can't have a non-supervisor [non STEM/Lawyer/Doctoral employee] at 6 figures now, can we?)
The trick is that back in the day they did this but back then you could actually use the additional tasks to negotiate a better wage. You can't do that now because there are millions of unemployed people waiting to be overworked so they can afford rent. Btw that ad transition was 10/10 😂😂
Yeah, I was offered a promotion with more responsibilities and more stress. More money? I asked. Lol. Told them to pass the opportunity on to someone else.
Fell for this twice already in my last year at my grocery gig. I was a cashier for 9 years, and was dry promoted to do stocking on the side whenever the crowds died out. It was fine at first until I realized I was getting phased out for younger staff and I had less cashier days over the course of that year. Then I was eventually asked for a dry promotion as an assistant bookkeeper as I was told there wasn't room for me back at the front. Sadly, because this was an overnight job, I went straight to stocking as corporate only wanted 1 cashier lane in the mornings. Yeah, I got played. Left earlier in the year after 10 years of service without a two weeks notice. No regrets. Been a NEET ever since.
Translation... ...They cannot "afford" to pay you because they need that $XX,000,000 yearly bonuses for the CEOs and shareholders. The $XX,000,000 is PER each executive. Somehow they found money for them but not for you.
This lady's entire job is running a news show reporting on the definitions of HR buzzwords. She is literally the corporate version of BehindTheMeme. Meanwhile, I can't get a call back after months of applying.
@@PremiumUserUltra what smjaiteh said has nothing about attitude with regards to themselves. It's actually about the fact that there are a LOT of not only empty job applications (whereby the job already has someone in mind but places an ad on a job site to look 'fair'), but also scam job apps. Along with that when it comes to making 'your own thing', takes money to make money most of the time, and starting a business takes longer than your bills are willing to wait for.
You can’t get a call back because you never bothered to actually learn anything useful. The whole professional lackey era of covid was only good for two years.
@@aluisious that's not the case at all. At the moment with the amount of scam, and empty job applications when they already have someone in mind, is currently ruining the job market. I did write a comment on this but I have no idea where it's gone. It's affecting most countries. Along with this, more people now are having to get more than one job due to inflation.
9:20 You have to fill it with a bunch of fluff because if you don't you get fired for insubordination. Then suddenly all your references are "rhymes with mazy loron" and you can't find work. Ta-da.
Refuse it, and make sure you do it in front of other employees, and be willing to make it clear you'll accept the promotion when they come back with an associated pay rise for the increase in responsibility.
PSA: do this only if you're irreplaceable; north americans tend to have inflated ego across the board, and those with some power typically do not brook affront in public.
The sad thing is that if most people reacted this way (as this becomes a trend), the whole idea of a "dry promotion" will be dead before it even gets off of the ground ... But sadly, most people won't. And most people won't take it because they'll fear the consequences of not doing so. And so, it'll grow in popularity in corporate America until finally, it becomes a staple in the workforce and future generations will grow up and enter the workforce seeing this as a normal part of the process.
Do it in front of other employees and you'll never be offered anything ever again, not even with a payrise. Expose their scam and they will make sure you feel the consequences so only do this publicly if you already have an option B for employment. Otherwise just refuse it behind closed doors and quietly look for another job. Once you give in your notice, then you can say what you want out loud.
Same shit, different toilet. Keep looking for the next opportunity even if it is with another company. The era of rewarding loyalty to one company is over. Go for yourself and fly high.
This was how i felt, when i was in the Army, about being promoted from SPC to a CPL...was still an E4 pay grade but you were doing the work of an E5. On the civilian side...been seeing this a lot in a lot of industries. As a supervisor, we've gone through this, as well. My responsibilities have doubled since i initially started and we got a new vice president. When i wanted to get my assistant team lead a higher raise, my manager and i pointed out to our director that the asst team lead does the most on our team but makes the least, by far...we were denied. The explanation given still is logical to me.
I can not imagine my boss asking me to come into his office and tell me to work more for no money. And not just more as in faster, but also extra hours, Saturdays, also extra tasks, extra responsibilities, but for same pay. In Germany, if you try to pull one like that, that worker will go and tell the rest of the workers, and they'll all start doing only half the work they used to do and the boss can't fire you for being slow. At least not here. Basically exactly what happened at my company. They screwed over a couple of workers, and cheated others of hard earned promised promotions. Years later, the time comes, and the company shrugs "Ufff, sorry there little buddy. This just isn't the right time for our company. Difficult economic situations you see." For 5 years now, everyone has been doing the quite quitting thing and the company had to hire double the people to do basically the same job we used to do and in the same amount.
So what's the profit for you and your co-workers? It seems like you messed up - no salary raise, same working hours, half an actual work - and for what? I'm not defending your company, I wandering if there was any outer way to make conditions better for you?
some businesses, people, etc actually do think you should, as a person do extra work and such and simply think if it as doing volunteer work for them. Years ago, South Korea was notorious for doing it to people. One even had the audacity to ask me if I knew any Mormons, b/c he had heard they like to work for free via "doing the lords work".
@@borsman The funny thing is, we actually started getting raises and bonuses when we stopped working so hard. But we learned not to take the bait. So we still do the work our way.
@@NeoAfricanBroadcast software. The last 3 companies where I spent an average of 3 years, didn't do raises. Thus why I say just move to another company and get more $$ that way.
It all depends on how long you plan to stay at a job. I got my first promotion to a lead at a job, and I initially didn't get a bump in pay. I left just before I was supposed to get the pay to match my job title because I never really planned to be there too long. The job was somewhat in my field but not the exact thing I wanted to do. The original position gave me a chance to have experience I only had a limited amount of before, and the promotion gave me something to put on my resume. Other than the job I left for, it really benefited me on applications and interviews I had on a few of the jobs I had after that.
I think it depends on what the “fake promotion” is. I went into a more complex role (meaning thinking/problem solving) with less volume overall. Its considered a promotion, but a flat line with the other. However, without this, there is no room for growth. This route allowed me to get a massive increase in pay within a year of being in that role that wouldn’t have been available. I think its important to understand the company and the route to move up within a specific time frame. I would do it again if I needed to.
man, it’s like these companies have forgotten why they conceded to labour laws and negotiating with Unions. it’s like they want to go back to the days of being tied up in the office while the staff burnt the whole place down.
well, this is a fucking stupid trend. I got a promotion three years ago and then this past year management rewrote the job description and the requirements for my particular title. The weird part is they didn’t announce this. They just did it in secret and then they started telling people with my title we have these new responsibilities. I said no thank you I don’t wanna do that and my boss said well that’s a part of your title. I said well if that was the case I would’ve never put in for the promotion. Can I go back to my old rank so that I don’t have to do this work? They have no process for a demotion...
Check your employment contract, If your job description is in there, then you do NOT have to do it. Otherwise, sue them and claim they're only changing your job description because you are black. If they claim you aren't black, tell them you're voting for Trump
@@BOSSDONMANno we really don't. Our labor laws are fine and overbearing enough as it is. I do not want the government telling anyone what they must do with their money beyond what they already do.
@@WackyIraqi777 No, they really don't. Most of the labor protections that existed vanished as did unions in the US. The same period conveniently corresponded with wages not keeping pace with inflation despite an exponential growth in productivity.
First of all this isn't a new phenomenon like they are trying to suggest. I remember commuting to work around 2010, 2012 and people telling me about how overworked they were after someone left the job or got fired. I even recall a colleague telling me about their friend's wife getting thrown into her boss's role without the formal promotion or pay increase. She was being made to do both jobs. She originally thought she could make herself eligible by proving she could do it but later found out they were seeking applicants. At the time, the husband was experiencing his own work turmoil so she couldn't just leave and was afraid to push back too hard. That was years ago. I've since seen more signs of the crap. Anytime someone has tried to cajole me to do more for less, I'm frank before we even get to the end of the conversation. I push back and ask the tough questions so it's clear where my motivation lies. I always believe that you have to begin as you mean to go on. If you go along for a while, it's much harder to take a stance later without repercussions.
12:53 - This cracked me up. The way Josh underlines each word dramatically in red, and the lines go all wonky as he speaks - a nice touch of comedy to the hilarious notion of "dRy PrOMoTiOn".
Gonna admit, not doing well. We had corporate restructuring and I'm doing 9 peoples jobs. Was promised a raise I never got and when I asked about it my job was threatened with being fired. Single father and my ex will get the kids if I lose my job so my negotiating power is almost 0. Duck our current system.
Just a heads up, it is against employment laws for an employer to threaten to fire you over you asking about your position and pay in confidence. Make sure you do your research as I am not an attorney, but you should also find another job that values you
@@aurabindaghosh4559 agreed and the situation is something I have not gone through. Some people just don’t know their rights and I just want to make sure that there is a least that knowledge. I could imagine how much the situation sucks but just like to make sure that people look into if they can and don’t just say “oh well” you know? :)
I got dry promoted once... By attrition I had become one of the most senior members of the team, and at my quarterly assessment the owner was docking me left and right for all these things I wasn't doing that had never been discussed as part of my job. "You should be stepping up" and so on. Now to his credit, when he realized that yeah, I had never actually been upgraded to a manager, he made it official and gave me a raise for it. Then he sold the company and I got laid off as one of the most senior and highest paid employees 😆
I didn't know there was a term for the BS I went through last month. Out of the blue my boss pulls me into a meeting with HR. They tell me I've been promoted to "Senior Software Engineer." Tons of new responsibilities but only a $1,000 salary increase. I'm now getting paid 15k below the local market's minimum for the role.
$1000 per check or per year? If it's per year, you're basically just getting an extra $40 per check for all the extra work. I would've denied that "promotion" in a heartbeat.
Head down, resumes out, my guy. Though the definitive of "senior software engineer" is ambiguous in many industries that have no idea what engineers do
My company has been doing that for YEARS. You do the work of the higher level without the extra pay of the higher level. Ya know…to show you can do the work. Then at your next evaluation, we’ll TALK about a raise. It’s bullsh*t.
I believe many of you don't remember the 2008 - 2009 recession. It was awful. So many lost their jobs and then their homes. The government backed out the banks but not the rest of us. I remember getting an email to company meeting on a Friday at 1pm. Everyone was nervous. Our CEO told us to keep all employed no raises for anyone for the foreseeable future. My coworker started to cry. Her husband had been laid off the month before and they were already struggling. She thought we were getting laid off too. They were actually tears or relief. Just wanted to put some perspective out there. It's a shame employee's always pay the price for others.
Thank you for videos just like this. I was an adjunct professor for a while. One day a full-time staff position opened up that I was very qualified for and my bosses encouraged me to apply. My application was summarily dismissed in favor of a younger internal candidate without any of the qualifications. It was ok, though, because my consolation prize was an offer to rewrite a course's whole curriculum. When I asked about compensation, first I was told they could pay me, but that was rescinded as soon as I accepted the project. One year later, I'm getting my PhD all the way across the country.
If "dry promitions" start becoming a thing, you'd batter start trying to find out about the financial condition of your employer. They could be going broke.
Get rid of corporations and bring back family owned independently owned businesses that existed from the beginning of civilization until the 60s and 80s when these corporate snakes came in
I agree. Yes to companies and small mom-and-pops. No to Corperations and conglomerates. At this point a no to anything that is trading public on the stock market.
Corporations are already done inherently very inefficient. Smaller businesses have a massive edge. The problem is corporations buy politicians who put regulations in place that a massive corporation can afford, but a small company cannot.
When a coworker was offered a dry promotion to supervise the position that he was currently in, the big boss doing the interviews pretty much told him that if he didn't take it, it might be given to someone who would not be pleasant to work for.
"What do you do when an employer offers you a dry promotion?" That's easy.... you quit. Theyve already shown you that they don't value you enough to pay you for the extra work they're trying to give you. If they get away with it once, they'll just keep doing it. So just quit. Now, they're forced to pay to train someone else to take your position.
Quitting sometimes means no severance pay and they will find someone else who does the job, doesn’t matter even if they do it worse as long as they can pay them even lesser.
It can be a positive in these 2 cases. 1 - you already want to quit so doing that for few months will fluff up your CV, 2 - you are already almost irreplaceable but not there yet and this can push you there. Being irreplaceable means you can start demanding stuff (not asking for stuff, demanding it or you quit). Everyone else should just ask for money or turn it down.
Not in my experience. I work among lots of Gen Z and Millennials and they all brown nose. I'm part of Gen X and I've gotten in hot water for telling people off (including managers).
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z LOL you guys are the biggest kiss asses. im 30 but genz have more guts than you or i. LOL good joke though. most gen x never question the baby boomers.
I’m Gen Z myself and I say it’s a little bit of a half truth, there are some who are complete NPCs and are told what to think, as opposed to the others who are like “fuck work” completely and becomes a NEET, this is why I focus on being my own boss and focus on my priorities first and foremost. I think my generation should be a lot more like that.
lol no lol The reason why "Quiet quitting" and "dry promotions" exist is because Gen Z has no spine. lol Try putting that bullshit with some of the older generations and you got people quitting for a better job or the boss being told to fuck off. All this "treat the employee nice and give them benefits" is propaganda to get people to accept less pay and more work lol Ask for money, do the work, then fuck off. Dont expect more from the boss, dont expect less. Its a job not a marriage.
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z Yeah I had a similar situation to a dry promotion but in the extreme, my Gen X defiance took over and I went scorched earth on my management team and nuked my "career" over it, had simply had enough of the nonsense and vowed to NEVER work for someone else ever again
Back in the 90s my father ( who was already retired from US Army after 22yrs) was offered a dry promotion at his corporate job. His counter offer was he would take the promotion if he could work half days on Wednesdays ( because he wanted to golf). They said no. So my dad actually quit the job and took a job at the golf course working 24 hours a week for $5 an hour. The upside being he also made about $50 a day in tips and he got to play golf for free whenever he wanted. At the end of the day he was pulling about $300 a week and not paying for a single round of golf. Which was roughly equivalent to what he was making at the corporate job.
After a year I got a dry promotion, to a Sr. Level position. No pay increase, instead 10k worth of equity options. The company went from a 1.3 Billion evaluation to a 600 million evaluation the previous 18 months, and was taking on an additional 100 million in VC equity. I would have literally lost money if I had paid for the options.
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Joshua is a selfish little person.
Here is a trick. Let them give you title that costs more while they refuse to pay more. Wait a couple months, find another job with updated title and real pay increase. Rinse-repeat until you earn enough
@@WeibCorbinian You put the S in selfish and the G in greedy.
Another euphemism for wage theft.
@JoshuaFluke1 Aura is a scam. The data broker making tons of money selling data with servers in Vietnam or some other foreign country is just going to ignore the request.
Sending opt-out requests with no actual ability to enforce them, to people who have no reason to care about the requests, isn't going to achieve anything.
You pretend to pay me and I'll pretend to work.
💯
Communism at its finest!
Russian wisdom
And then pretend to be jobless
Abd then pretend to be out of business @@TheCarlinCoop
fake promotions are one of the main things that pushed me toward quiet quitting
Same here.
Years ago I was a plant manager of one shift, my Manager walks the production floor and tell me "Oh by the way congratulations, upper level announced you got promoted, You are know in charge of two shift!" When I said this is the first I'm hearing this and how much more am I getting? Manager just walked away from me. Needless to say, I was gone not too long after that.
They hired people with less experience above me then realized they are trash and asked me to manage them for free. I stupidly said yes. Now I’m telling them I’m going back to the responsibilities of my pay level and they are acting like I’m quiet quitting. And they wonder why millennials never stay for more than a few years lmao
I think I prefer ‘Dry Humping’. Doing all the work, but getting none of the results.
Slavery
A dry promotion is basically an incentive to leave, since the title change is meaningless within the company, and is only worthwhile for your resumé.
Joshua Fluke keeping it real with the companies.
Saying what we all know is true,but can't say it.
Long Live Joshua Fluke ,outlive those bastards.
I am.
I left Reno after working for many of them. Hertz,Raley's,
Goodwill -
( A recycle biz).
All Fakers.
Transmission sent from Albuquerque,NM
5.58p
15.9.24
Exactly!
"Oh thanks my next employer is going to love this"
That literally happened to me, I renewed my resume and just got a new, better job right after that lol
Bingo I’ll take that new line on my resume.
Its all HR tricks. HR is the most useless position in any organisation.
i dont disagree , but one of the worst employers i had was a christian family owned company with no HR and no morals either
*business
You are looking at it incorrectly. You are under the false belief that HR is designed to help the employees. It can be, but that is not the primary function of HR. To understand its purpose, look no further than the title. Human Resources - The Humans are a resource that the company is try to optimize to be productive to increase wealth. HR is also called Human Capital. Human capital is the, training, knowledge, skills, and health that a company invests in to yield more profit from the asset which is the human/employee. HR and the legal department also serve to avoid litigation. HR is an arm of a corporation that is designed to protect the company and maximize profit.
@@CB-yh3db your comment is underrated . This is exactly what every employee should understand about the role of HR in an organization.
The shamelessness about this robbery through underpaid labor is insane. Companies aren't even trying to hide it anymore
A friend of mine got a dry promotion, he was promoted to manager with no salary increase. He could not refuse because it was clear they will fire him otherwise. He took the title and left 2 months later using the title and getting better pay.
Was gonna say this - use it as a spring board to get another job
He played it well. This is the only smart move against this nonsense
And that's literally the only thing this could be good for.
Good on him doing that!!
That's wonderful that it worked out so favorably for him.
Good for him
Dry promotions implies the existence of wet Promotions, which sounds very unpleasant.
Both make me feel quite soiled.
Wet promotion is how chicks climb the corporate ladder.
Haha. Imagine you hear your boss call you in to his office for a Wet Promotion 😀
I can only imagine the walk of shame to HR.
🤣
Take the "dry promotion" for the title then immediately add the new title to resume and start applying elsewhere.
Exactly! Maybe negotiate for a better sounding title to place on your resume. You know, Janitor vs Sanitation Engineer.
This!
I suppose in some cases this is the endgame for the company - they help You transition out of the company instead of laying off.
I have done this.
@@jimkoney4200you just reminded me "laundry scientist" is a legit title and real job
Dry promotion explains 3/4 of my entire career. Stuck in life circumstances than required me to put up with it out of fear of being silent fired. I grew up with the old, "work hard stay, loyal and it will pay off" mentality and it has NEVER worked out. On the contrary when I've risked a job change it's ALWAYS benefitted well.
You're not alone, fella.
I'm in the exact same boat there's literally days where I pull my hair out from the anger (read: NOT stress).
Like, I need to hurt someone but the only people around are my wife and kid so me it is.
I'm glad I WFH cause I'd be catching charges.
The better term for "Dry Promotion " is "Skill Theft." Let's callcit what it is. Companies want to get you to do as much as possible and pay as little as possible. If they could, they'd enslave you in a heartbeat.
You are wise.
And if you show any effort and/or initiative, they will expect double of it going forward.
It’s called exploitation it goes back to ancient times.
Remember that stupid trend companies had of giving unpaid internships?
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z Yup. Nice rebrand of slavery.
Yeah, it's just this. Different words and strategies for exploitation
There's another word too. It's called slavery
@@scorpioseason3868 we went over that that’s the unpaid internship.
"BuT wHy DoEsN't AnYoNe WaNt To WoRk?" 😆
"Nobody wants to work [for free] anymore!"
'Those damn Zoomers don't want to work! Meanwhile back in my day, I dropped out of HS and was able to buy my first house at 20' - BB
@@BOSSDONMAN Yes, that was back when work actually got you something. Now, we're essentially slaves working for next to nothing.
Dirty sanchez, donkey punch, quiet quitting, dry promotion what’s next
Working is slavery in taxation is theft
*Boss:* "You can put that on your resume."
*Translation:* "Your future entails job applications."
Thank you I'll start searching immediately.
I turned down a dry promotion, and I don’t regret it. They fired me 2 days after I refused the promotion, now I’m looking for another job. If I went thru with the “promotion “, I would be doing my current duties along with MORE/NEW responsibilities.
I’m good.😂
@asapgoms3710 Wouldn't it have been better to take the "promotion" title, stay employed while looking for a new job... with the title they gave you? I would've said (in my head) 'oh, thank you for the opportunity to find a higher paying job! '
Real shame, sounds like a retaliation that shouldn't be legal. "do more work or you're fired!" especially if you're overtime exempt. But alas. Still got a ways to go for proper labor protections.
You should have at least told them yes, but the salary needs to be higher. You can always change your position if they don't budge on price
@@raze2012_ Depending on the country it is illegal.
The management cut my wages by 17% because I didn't have that many customers. I served as many as walked in. Where will I get more? So, now it'll be $11 after taxes etc. ($15 before). Even though I did a lot helping my coworkers and doing everything else in the office, but now I realised that didn't count. Management only cares about the numbers.
Ha ha. I was a project manager. They promoted me to Regional manager so I could travel to different locations, no extra pay. I said yes and immediately put it on my resume and started looking for a new job as a Regional Manager.😂
assistant regional manager or assistant to the regional manager? The office 😆
Ooo! Nice! I’m going to have to file that away for the future. 😂
@@suicidesitter6527 Neither.
He would be the regional manager - like he said.
So Michael Scott...?
@@suicidesitter6527beat me to it!
@@HaggisMuncher-69-420ain’t that the pedophile flag? They really getting BOLD now. THATS CRAZY💀💀💀💀
My boss turns to me early this week to tell me he is offering my peer a new title and moving her from being an individual contributor to be a line manager with no additional pay, asking me if I would like to compete for the position, to which I said (hell) no. Then, my peer asks me, why didn’t I want to compete? I said I would rather focus on my deliverables and wait for a different opportunity. I ask her, who will be doing her job from now on, to which she said, still her. I could not hold myself: so, you are being taken advantage of, I said.
Your boss is crafty. A competition would mentally imply its something of value..😄
@@Dweeble233 only if you have 80 IQ
@@Dweeble233it’s called dishonest, not crafty.. but we love to put a positive spin on it when it’s in business for some reason
@@Dweeble233 It sounds like a toxic work environment.
My dad was approached by his former company and they gave him a 40% raise because his skillset and experience is hard to find. My mom said: But this job position/title isn't as good as your current one. My dad and I: Job positions don't pay the bills, the income pays the bills.
Your Dad is to be commended.
Bravo!!!!
Women ☕
@@BWite-pk1ov yup they care far too much about appearances and status. They are the reason why every job these days has a fancy title, even the most menial of admin work
Job titles can pay the bills if you use them to get jobs elsewhere at that level. But in the short term, obviously more money is more money.
A 40% raise in hand is worth 2 promotions in the bush.
I'm glad I walked away from corporate.
I retrained into a trade that makes me six figures, and I have an old school pension, free health insurance, and I'm protected by a great union.
I deal with none of this double speak bullsh!t, because there's actual work that needs to be done.
THIS is the way.
"6 figures" just say you make 100k
What do you do now? Just curious :)
A licensed trade?
@@harrybaals2549 so true , we know it wont be $782,000
@@harrybaals2549 He said that?
1:17 How you navigate dry promotion? You follow it with resign letter. You should NEVER EVER tolerate disrespect.
No no no.... if the title they give you can be leveraged into a multi-dozen thousand dollar raise (hell, even +5k)... If you take it, and then use it to apply to their competitors.... that's not disrespect at all... Thats a free gift to level up your salary AND leave a horrible company. Most companies don't want to let you go that easily, they'll hide how terrible they are by giving you "just enough" to not quit while dangling more if you "just go a little further."
Life gave you a lemon. It's only sour because you don't know that you can put sugar on it. To clarify... you CAN put some sugar on it. _Sweeten the deal, man._ Sweeten the deal.
that is exactly what it is - disrespect, they think they can overwhelm with you with extra work and responsibilities without any additional compensation and think you are dumb enough to take it and believe the BS
This is corporate Doublespeak. The accurate term for this arrangement would be 'Wage robbery', because the employee is expected to put more effort for the same amount of pay, effectively robbing them of the extra pay that they are entitled to with the extra effort and responsibility. But they put a positive spin on it by using the term Dry 'PROMOTION'. Basically, using a positive term for something that negatively impacts the employee.
See now I would be that person who would sit there, confused, and finally ask, "....Is this legal? I think I'm gonna have to call the labor board....." but in a very curious, confused, naive-sounding way xD
I got dry promotion last year. Took it because it switched me from annoying shift work to office work. But pay is same.
And I agree, dry promotion shouldn't be encouraged.
The first thing to do after receiving a "dry promotion" is find a new job. And while you do, "quiet quit".
Sabotage on your way out...
I have so many exhausted friends who are superglued to their positions because they are too "valuable" to ACTUALLY promote! Sick of this!
Well better learn to stand up for urself or love being a "yes man" slave. Hope ur buddies can get out of that unworthy hell hole and get better job n income . Aint no company ur family. 🙂
been there done that 3 times , without boasting technically im recognised as one of the best in my field , i got more $$ than the branch manager , service manager and sales manager at one company but they wouldnt promote me , i spoke to the national services manager and MD and they just offered me more money , sucks because the job is physically taxing
Here after seeing palki in Thumbnail
that was scary man.
This is a page book from any military organization: They'll give you extra-responsibilities to be added to your workload (often referred as "secondary tasks") with the lie that it will count toward your next promotion (which can be months or years away). The trap being that those secondary tasks often become more engaging than your primary which will lead you to overwork and burn out.... all of which will work AGAINST your next promotion.
In the armory those fuckers had me working on trucks, then skipped me over because if i got promoted i couldn’t do motor pool. i stopped trying and made two ranks in a year. we are fucked as a country.
This sort of happened to me an I just ended up putting in my 1 year notice and left the army.
It's funny how quick they were trying to convince me to stay but I was done.
Also, funnily enough, I recently received a letter asking me if I was interested in rejoining. I guess their recruitment campaign isn't going too hot
"if someone wants to punch you in the face, you should recognize that they see you in a light that they want to be physically close with you and be thankful"
Gotcha 👍
It’s not a “punch in the face”, it’s a “disciplinary high five” to the face
A knuckle sounds better than a dry promotion
Co-worker of mine got a dry promotion. Literally doing IT Architecture work for a major major corporation, but he got zero pay raise. They'll "discuss" a raise in October. He's looking for a new job.
What’s his actual title? Curious about the leap from there to IT Architecture
Usually anyone who actually asks, why are we using this stack. BTDT. Left the job too.
@@AsiaThinksI do software architecture while my title is senior consultant. If they don't go me a good pay raise by end of the year, I'm out. And currently I am somewhat working in safe mode.
In tech, a dry promotion can be a good thing, but only because every sane person in tech jumps to a new employer every 2-4 years.
Its a great incentive to start looking AND its good resume fodder.
It might even get you some practical experience that will be useful when interviewing.
@@mattzun6779That's what I thought but that turns this into a "polite" way of saying "please go". The thing is I see managers being upset about people taking it that way and I'm completely baffled by it, like, what did you expect?
Corporations will find any way they can to pay you pennies to move mountains for them.
Don't comply. Move on. The days of working a long time at ANY place are gone.
That’s why I do the absolute bare minimum and use my free time to do things that benefit ME and not the company.
@@blahblahblah-uw4uf This is the way.
@@blahblahblah-uw4uf You have known yourself
There is a quote from my country: "You want me to work as you want, pay me as I want. You will pay me as you want, I'll work as I want."
WOW! I can't believe someone figured this new thing out. It's not like companies have been doing this forever or anything. Did you guys really just notice this, or is it because someone gave it a fancy name? I knew about this in high school in the 80's "Congratulations Jimmy, you're our new team leader! You get to wear a blue shirt now!"
I'm not sure what's worse... Dry Promotions themselves, or those women peddling the fact that Dry Promotions are actually a good thing.
She knows about dry, just not dry promotions.
both
Narcissistic, psychopathic behavior. From someone in a place of privilege. Wow!
Only cirscumtance I would take a dry promotion is to get a nice resume so that I can jump to an actually higher paying job 6 months later at most. I'd start looking for another job right away, fuck that company.
This is the exact reason why I accepted mine - to make my resume look good (I also negotiated a pathetic salary bump).
Dry Promotion= Being Taken advantage off. Say I will ONLY accept the promotion for a fair pay raise. If they say no then just keep doing your job while looking for a new respectable employer that is not trash. If they forced you to take the promotion under duress then REALLY get aggressive on that new job hunt.
I was offered one of those more than 20 years ago, I turned it down. One manager warned me that I'd never get another offer if I turned it down. I replied then I'll go find an employer who will appreciate what I bring. I've also negotiated every promotion salary, I never took the "standard" bump.
NEVER take on more responsibility for nothing.
What percent increase do you think is fair for a “promotion”. Our annual raises are typical 3-4% but with inflation at like 8-9% these past few users, I’ve essentially been given a pay cut it feels like.
@@Shadow_Banned_Conservative
So did you end up moving to a different company after that?
Also what percent increase do you think is fair for a “promotion”.
@@Allaiya. Nope, I didn't have to move. I sat down with the VP and took another position in the company they needed filled. I negotiated a 10% raise, split over 6 months over the 4% the manager of the department assumed I'd blindly take.
I've been with the same company now for 28 years and have had several promotions over the years, turned a few more down as well.
It's all relative when you talk how much money for a promotion. Are you moving one level up the career ladder, or did you jump over a step or two? Are you moving from individual contributor to management? If so, then you're going to want a huge increase because it's more hours and a lot more responsibility, and if you're a manager you also have more liabilities than you do of the individual contributor. For instance, you can be sued as an individual outside of the company if someone feels you've discriminated against them or claims some type of harassment or unfair treatment. That's worth a lot of money in my opinion and one of the promotions I've turned down over the years.
@@Allaiya.depending on the role, negotiating based on additional responsibility and value brought to the company in the new role will help. I got a 50% pay increase by talking on those topics.
2x responsibility, plus keeping largest client in check and happy meant the raise was worth the outcomes. But then you MUST deliver. Or be replaced.
I think I'd prefer a "wet demotion"
Less tasks and more pay.
only reason im still a dishwasher until cooking wages go up then-- im out of there lol suckers.
😂😂
I basically got that a couple years ago: I pretty much get paid just for showing up. The downside is it's so boring it still starts to wear you down.
@@mariogamre9910 and it slides in easier. A little more pleasant than taking it dry.
❤😂
In non-corporate and anti-HR words, it feels like ALL THE UNCONSENSUAL FRICTION AND NO LUBE!
Bro, your recent videos are killin' it! Keep 'em comin' brother.
The whole incentive of getting a promotion is to earn more money, not just a fancy title. The only silver lining is putting that dry promotion on your resume so you can earn a better salary....with a different employer.
Yeah, but the title may make you appear overqualified in others’ eyes.
You might not care as a man but women love status. A stupid title matters for them more than money.
@@k.chriscaldwell4141 Fair point.
You mean dumb people love titles right? You never heard the term golddigger? Idk about you but I think of a woman when I hear golddigger.
This trend is gaining momentum world wide . Translation rich people are getting richer worldwide while paying people less and less while giving them more work.
It's hilarious to see people (primarily recruiters) still argue against job hopping. Companies will play a whole carrot and stick manipulation game with you to get promoted for maybe a 7% increase in salary (meanwhile, you incur 2-3x more responsibilities to finally get said promotion), while you could've just hopped into the same title for what could be a 20-30% raise in total comp. Job hopping is goated.
And especially with any actual skilled position in tech or manufacturing, they don't see a problem with the high turnover fleeting tribal knowledge. They think someone can come in and learn the job in a few weeks. Ignorant jackasses galore.
In my career I wasn't a job hopper but I did have one job change that turned into hopping. This was about 25 years ago. Went from a job I didn't really like making $35K to a startup doing quite interesting work and got a bump to $55K. Place fell apart about 6 months later and I went to another startup and another $20K pay bump to $75K. That place was on shaky financial ground (I knew that going into the deal) and our full wage amount was contingent upon the company securing the next round of financing, which never really happened. Long story short that place fell apart about a year later and I went back to the original company, which had been bought in the mean time, for yet another $20K bump to $95K. No way in the world would I have gone from $35K to anywhere near $95K if I'd stayed put - I doubt I'd have made it even to $50K counting the bump people got when the company was bought. So job hopping can work wonders. But I've also known people that have hopped around and wound up unemployed. So it's far from risk free.
@@xlerb2286 You did these hops all within a 2 year time period 25 years ago?
I turned down a more senior position at another company that was going to pay me 25% more than what I earn now.
I turned it down because I actually liked the work I was doing.
Even today, I wake up and kick myself.
@@HaggisMuncher-69-420 I did a similar. I left a large corp with great pay and benefits (full medical, stock grants, ESPP) for a much smaller company. A little less pay but way less benefits. Those 13 years at that smaller company were the best in my career and I'm not one bit sorry about the reduced compensation :) Life's too short to work with a-holes.
Ohh nice to see Palki Sharma’s news clips are being watched someone on the other side of the planet. We are going global now.
You must receive alot of hate from corporate businesses.
Thank you for the work you do, bringing sanity back to the workplace conversation. Best excuse ive heard personally for being non promotable was "too essential to operations to promote" slap in the face.
😂😂
Dry promotions? These corporate buzzwords make me want to dry heave.
Is there a company out there where its workers sit around a meeting room table to dream up these things ? Whats next, Dry Benefits Package ?
@@Gizziiusa Dry benefits. That's a good one. The premiums are going up and the coverage is going down, but now we're calling it the "Premium Coverage".
You mean instead of wet heave? 😂😂
@@stormchaser419 Well yes, that would be the implication...
Why waste a good heave? Go ahead and make it a chunky one.
As a woman, I would not and do not take negotiation advice from women like those. All they do is encourage you to be a doormat.
YEP.
Thank you for saying that. I saw this after Isde my comment and they are compatible comments. Good for you
As a man, I was thinking the same thing lmao. Amazing how agreeable they all are, even though they wouldn't do the same!
It is like listening to state propaganda.
Well you could take Joshua's advice and ensure you'll never have lasting employment with any company for the rest of your life. You'll be unemployed most of the time...but hey, at least you won't be a doormat.
A lot of times it’s not even dry… they just start giving you more work to do
Yep. My boss just said, hey this is your responsibility now. Something that was previously theirs.
Yup that’s what happened to me… at a PROGRESSIVE nonprofit advocating for workers 😂 so hypocritical.
In a way, this has been going on for decades in computer programming, especially web development. They call it being a "Fullstack developer" now. So I started out making web pages then doing the backend logic was added to the mix. Fair enough since the two work closely together. Then being the Server Admin was tacked on. Wait, this used to be a separate job. Not busy enough I guess, being a DBA was added as requirement of working in this field- a complete career option in the past. Then being a "Dev Ops" guy became a thing, but why not just add that to the list of things you have to know as a programmer? Naturally, you also must do BA and QA work too (dressed up as "Test Driven Development") because why not? A job listing can have 20+ requirements now...its insanity and the young guys are brainwashed into thinking being a techno-swiss army knife is "normal".
The Army has been doing this for years. It's called getting promoted to Corporal.
I feel like India is always at the front of the dumb corporate scams
They have the bottom of the barrel work culture from what I've seen, even worse than Japan. The level of arrogance among their corporate leaders is likely a result of the genuine classism that's still rooted there.
@@jacobg8640 As an Indian I agree with you. So many of us are trapped in here and we are getting offered peanuts for the work we do. My friends are working as web developers and literally get paid 200 dollars a month & they often stretch their working hours without OT.
@@jacobg8640I remember Josh did a video of an Indian CEO arguing why interns should be grateful to work without pay. 😂
Well for these corporations, it’s cheap labor, so of course they’re gonna take advantage of that opportunity for the Indians.
It's who they are as a people. Worked with them and in India. They literally sell each other for a couple hundred dollars
Essentially a Dry Promotion is ammo the company gives you to put on your resume to get higher pay elsewhere
You could just put it anyways
This is similar to the unpaid internships.
Imagine some unpaid interns with a dry promoted boss...
Depends. If you get an internship that actually trains you, then that's fine, for maybe 3 months. Network maybe get your foot in the door afterwards. But if they're just making you scrub toilets and get their food, not actually doing the work you intend to do then no.
Yeah I learned my lesson on that the hard way. Those still didn’t help me land a good job after graduation, so good to know I was basically unpaid labor. Not that it was hard work or anything but still had to use gas to get there and use up my time.
@@user_abcxyzzWhy wouldn’t you expect pay for doing any work? That seems odd to me.
After reading the comments, I feel like a dry promotion is a good thing. The company is essentially helping you find a better paying job instead of firing you
The irony is the first thing I noticed in that discussion is that there is not even a single man in that discussion to counter it 🤡
Increment letter? Promotions?
I’ve been in my role for three years, still on the same pay grade as new grads.
When I ask why, I get told, “Only way to get promoted is to leave the company and come back.”
If I leave, I ain’t ever coming back.
Better leave sooner than later
This is actually true though for most companies. For whatever reason, your previous salary just gets "forgotten" when you leave and come back. But this is assuming you spent at least 1-2y away. When you get to that point they have "no idea" if your previous salaray or the projections if you stayed, are accurate. If you were projected to only grow your salary by 5k over the next 2y, but you leave for 2y; they presume you "upskilled" to the point that it makes their previous projections off-base. Also, as a now-external hire, they can justify the bump as a "poaching key talent from competitors" thing, instead of "wasting raises on people who are too self-loathing to leave." They will also see you as someone who needs to be "incentivised" to 1) accept the offer, and 2) not leave again. So if you leave and come back, you are not only more likely to get a higher pay, but also more likely to be promoted (on average)... since most of them don't like messing with salary bands by having people be "overpaid" for their level of responsibility (can't have a non-supervisor [non STEM/Lawyer/Doctoral employee] at 6 figures now, can we?)
so you want promotion or you want to stay there ?
The trick is that back in the day they did this but back then you could actually use the additional tasks to negotiate a better wage. You can't do that now because there are millions of unemployed people waiting to be overworked so they can afford rent. Btw that ad transition was 10/10 😂😂
Ah the reserve army of labor 😞
Yeah, I was offered a promotion with more responsibilities and more stress. More money? I asked. Lol. Told them to pass the opportunity on to someone else.
Woah there buddy you missed a big opportunity.
@@Roescoe😂
my job offered a promotion but no offer letter 😂, until i see paperwork i ain’t agreeing to shit, fuck outta here
Fell for this twice already in my last year at my grocery gig. I was a cashier for 9 years, and was dry promoted to do stocking on the side whenever the crowds died out. It was fine at first until I realized I was getting phased out for younger staff and I had less cashier days over the course of that year.
Then I was eventually asked for a dry promotion as an assistant bookkeeper as I was told there wasn't room for me back at the front. Sadly, because this was an overnight job, I went straight to stocking as corporate only wanted 1 cashier lane in the mornings.
Yeah, I got played. Left earlier in the year after 10 years of service without a two weeks notice. No regrets. Been a NEET ever since.
Translation...
...They cannot "afford" to pay you because they need that $XX,000,000 yearly bonuses for the CEOs and shareholders. The $XX,000,000 is PER each executive. Somehow they found money for them but not for you.
Dont be greedy, they need money to buy their 8 luxury yacht
This lady's entire job is running a news show reporting on the definitions of HR buzzwords. She is literally the corporate version of BehindTheMeme. Meanwhile, I can't get a call back after months of applying.
Check your attitude or start your own thing
@@PremiumUserUltra what smjaiteh said has nothing about attitude with regards to themselves. It's actually about the fact that there are a LOT of not only empty job applications (whereby the job already has someone in mind but places an ad on a job site to look 'fair'), but also scam job apps. Along with that when it comes to making 'your own thing', takes money to make money most of the time, and starting a business takes longer than your bills are willing to wait for.
@@PremiumUserUltra I'm sure ATS cares sooo much about your attitude.
You can’t get a call back because you never bothered to actually learn anything useful. The whole professional lackey era of covid was only good for two years.
@@aluisious that's not the case at all. At the moment with the amount of scam, and empty job applications when they already have someone in mind, is currently ruining the job market. I did write a comment on this but I have no idea where it's gone. It's affecting most countries. Along with this, more people now are having to get more than one job due to inflation.
9:20 You have to fill it with a bunch of fluff because if you don't you get fired for insubordination. Then suddenly all your references are "rhymes with mazy loron" and you can't find work. Ta-da.
Yes, its almost like were punished for standing up for ourselves in the workplace.
References largely don't exist, especially for big companies.
The keynote speaker looks like a person that would hand out dry promotions to her assistants, house-help and chauffeur.
Refuse it, and make sure you do it in front of other employees, and be willing to make it clear you'll accept the promotion when they come back with an associated pay rise for the increase in responsibility.
PSA: do this only if you're irreplaceable; north americans tend to have inflated ego across the board, and those with some power typically do not brook affront in public.
Refuse and they will fire you. Accept and look for another job.
The sad thing is that if most people reacted this way (as this becomes a trend), the whole idea of a "dry promotion" will be dead before it even gets off of the ground ...
But sadly, most people won't.
And most people won't take it because they'll fear the consequences of not doing so.
And so, it'll grow in popularity in corporate America until finally, it becomes a staple in the workforce and future generations will grow up and enter the workforce seeing this as a normal part of the process.
@@Anonyme67get fired, then sue for retaliation.
Do it in front of other employees and you'll never be offered anything ever again, not even with a payrise. Expose their scam and they will make sure you feel the consequences so only do this publicly if you already have an option B for employment. Otherwise just refuse it behind closed doors and quietly look for another job. Once you give in your notice, then you can say what you want out loud.
When you realize that people with power over you are playing stupid little games, that is when realize that you should never have any loyalty to them.
I recently got a "lateral promotion". Different job, same pay.
That’s what I’m going through right now. Frankly I’m probably going to turn it down if there’s no pay bump.
Same shit, different toilet. Keep looking for the next opportunity even if it is with another company. The era of rewarding loyalty to one company is over. Go for yourself and fly high.
If your “promotion” doesn’t include a pay raise, don’t take the promotion.
This was how i felt, when i was in the Army, about being promoted from SPC to a CPL...was still an E4 pay grade but you were doing the work of an E5.
On the civilian side...been seeing this a lot in a lot of industries. As a supervisor, we've gone through this, as well. My responsibilities have doubled since i initially started and we got a new vice president. When i wanted to get my assistant team lead a higher raise, my manager and i pointed out to our director that the asst team lead does the most on our team but makes the least, by far...we were denied. The explanation given still is logical to me.
accept it enthusiastically with a massive shitgrin and treat it like a PIP...immediately start looking for a new job with your new shiny title.
I can not imagine my boss asking me to come into his office and tell me to work more for no money. And not just more as in faster, but also extra hours, Saturdays, also extra tasks, extra responsibilities, but for same pay. In Germany, if you try to pull one like that, that worker will go and tell the rest of the workers, and they'll all start doing only half the work they used to do and the boss can't fire you for being slow. At least not here. Basically exactly what happened at my company. They screwed over a couple of workers, and cheated others of hard earned promised promotions. Years later, the time comes, and the company shrugs "Ufff, sorry there little buddy. This just isn't the right time for our company. Difficult economic situations you see." For 5 years now, everyone has been doing the quite quitting thing and the company had to hire double the people to do basically the same job we used to do and in the same amount.
So what's the profit for you and your co-workers? It seems like you messed up - no salary raise, same working hours, half an actual work - and for what?
I'm not defending your company, I wandering if there was any outer way to make conditions better for you?
@@borsmanincoherent babble
some businesses, people, etc actually do think you should, as a person do extra work and such and simply think if it as doing volunteer work for them.
Years ago, South Korea was notorious for doing it to people.
One even had the audacity to ask me if I knew any Mormons, b/c he had heard they like to work for free via "doing the lords work".
@@borsman The funny thing is, we actually started getting raises and bonuses when we stopped working so hard. But we learned not to take the bait. So we still do the work our way.
@@Gizziiusa I’ve heard some awful things about Korean working conditions. Especially office work.
In over 10 years, I've never received a raise. Just move to another company when you want more money.
In 8 years, I have received raises that amount to over 25k~27k a year more than I initially started with.
So no, some companies are different
I also got to add that I'm not sure what industry you're in but no raise in 10 years is insane
@@NeoAfricanBroadcast software. The last 3 companies where I spent an average of 3 years, didn't do raises. Thus why I say just move to another company and get more $$ that way.
It all depends on how long you plan to stay at a job. I got my first promotion to a lead at a job, and I initially didn't get a bump in pay. I left just before I was supposed to get the pay to match my job title because I never really planned to be there too long. The job was somewhat in my field but not the exact thing I wanted to do. The original position gave me a chance to have experience I only had a limited amount of before, and the promotion gave me something to put on my resume. Other than the job I left for, it really benefited me on applications and interviews I had on a few of the jobs I had after that.
I think it depends on what the “fake promotion” is.
I went into a more complex role (meaning thinking/problem solving) with less volume overall. Its considered a promotion, but a flat line with the other.
However, without this, there is no room for growth. This route allowed me to get a massive increase in pay within a year of being in that role that wouldn’t have been available.
I think its important to understand the company and the route to move up within a specific time frame. I would do it again if I needed to.
It's the same old story. "We don't have the budget to pay you..."
"OK well come back and ask me to work when you do."
"and I don't have the budget for this extra responsibility"
man, it’s like these companies have forgotten why they conceded to labour laws and negotiating with Unions. it’s like they want to go back to the days of being tied up in the office while the staff burnt the whole place down.
well, this is a fucking stupid trend.
I got a promotion three years ago and then this past year management rewrote the job description and the requirements for my particular title. The weird part is they didn’t announce this. They just did it in secret and then they started telling people with my title we have these new responsibilities. I said no thank you I don’t wanna do that and my boss said well that’s a part of your title. I said well if that was the case I would’ve never put in for the promotion. Can I go back to my old rank so that I don’t have to do this work? They have no process for a demotion...
America needs labor protections. Companies have full authority to play these games and add endless additional responsibilities to their workers.
Check your employment contract,
If your job description is in there, then you do NOT have to do it.
Otherwise, sue them and claim they're only changing your job description because you are black.
If they claim you aren't black, tell them you're voting for Trump
Changing your contract behind your back, that's illegal, I'm pretty sure.
@@BOSSDONMANno we really don't. Our labor laws are fine and overbearing enough as it is. I do not want the government telling anyone what they must do with their money beyond what they already do.
@@WackyIraqi777 No, they really don't. Most of the labor protections that existed vanished as did unions in the US. The same period conveniently corresponded with wages not keeping pace with inflation despite an exponential growth in productivity.
First of all this isn't a new phenomenon like they are trying to suggest. I remember commuting to work around 2010, 2012 and people telling me about how overworked they were after someone left the job or got fired. I even recall a colleague telling me about their friend's wife getting thrown into her boss's role without the formal promotion or pay increase. She was being made to do both jobs. She originally thought she could make herself eligible by proving she could do it but later found out they were seeking applicants. At the time, the husband was experiencing his own work turmoil so she couldn't just leave and was afraid to push back too hard.
That was years ago. I've since seen more signs of the crap. Anytime someone has tried to cajole me to do more for less, I'm frank before we even get to the end of the conversation. I push back and ask the tough questions so it's clear where my motivation lies. I always believe that you have to begin as you mean to go on. If you go along for a while, it's much harder to take a stance later without repercussions.
12:53 - This cracked me up. The way Josh underlines each word dramatically in red, and the lines go all wonky as he speaks - a nice touch of comedy to the hilarious notion of "dRy PrOMoTiOn".
Gonna admit, not doing well. We had corporate restructuring and I'm doing 9 peoples jobs. Was promised a raise I never got and when I asked about it my job was threatened with being fired. Single father and my ex will get the kids if I lose my job so my negotiating power is almost 0. Duck our current system.
Just a heads up, it is against employment laws for an employer to threaten to fire you over you asking about your position and pay in confidence. Make sure you do your research as I am not an attorney, but you should also find another job that values you
@@MarkConolyHe's already low on money, do you think he has the time and money to hire an attorney and fight against his employer.
@@aurabindaghosh4559 agreed and the situation is something I have not gone through. Some people just don’t know their rights and I just want to make sure that there is a least that knowledge. I could imagine how much the situation sucks but just like to make sure that people look into if they can and don’t just say “oh well” you know? :)
@@aurabindaghosh4559 also some employment lawyers will do pro bono if you have a case worth fighting
Dingus look for a different job
Talk about taking it 'dry'.
The company is telling you to bite the pillow
🥵
I got dry promoted once... By attrition I had become one of the most senior members of the team, and at my quarterly assessment the owner was docking me left and right for all these things I wasn't doing that had never been discussed as part of my job. "You should be stepping up" and so on. Now to his credit, when he realized that yeah, I had never actually been upgraded to a manager, he made it official and gave me a raise for it. Then he sold the company and I got laid off as one of the most senior and highest paid employees 😆
Next day: is there anyone left here who knows how this system works ?
I partially retired over 3 years ago and the thought of going back into the corporate world literally gives me anxiety.
10:30 bitterness and resentment shows up in my work daily
fancy name for EXPLOITATION
I didn't know there was a term for the BS I went through last month. Out of the blue my boss pulls me into a meeting with HR. They tell me I've been promoted to "Senior Software Engineer." Tons of new responsibilities but only a $1,000 salary increase. I'm now getting paid 15k below the local market's minimum for the role.
$1000 per check or per year?
If it's per year, you're basically just getting an extra $40 per check for all the extra work.
I would've denied that "promotion" in a heartbeat.
I wouldn't even say get some exp. Straight up place your cv around and get that 15k.
Head down, resumes out, my guy.
Though the definitive of "senior software engineer" is ambiguous in many industries that have no idea what engineers do
Sounds like that resume needs updated and shoved out the door to any nearby company for higher pay
Put that new title in your resume and start looking for what you are worth
My company has been doing that for YEARS. You do the work of the higher level without the extra pay of the higher level. Ya know…to show you can do the work. Then at your next evaluation, we’ll TALK about a raise. It’s bullsh*t.
Apply for other jobs with better companies
@@raybod1775 It’s a Fortune 50 company. I’m not going to find much better. I’m just going to quit and work for myself.
I believe many of you don't remember the 2008 - 2009 recession. It was awful. So many lost their jobs and then their homes. The government backed out the banks but not the rest of us. I remember getting an email to company meeting on a Friday at 1pm. Everyone was nervous. Our CEO told us to keep all employed no raises for anyone for the foreseeable future. My coworker started to cry. Her husband had been laid off the month before and they were already struggling. She thought we were getting laid off too. They were actually tears or relief. Just wanted to put some perspective out there. It's a shame employee's always pay the price for others.
Thank you for videos just like this. I was an adjunct professor for a while. One day a full-time staff position opened up that I was very qualified for and my bosses encouraged me to apply. My application was summarily dismissed in favor of a younger internal candidate without any of the qualifications. It was ok, though, because my consolation prize was an offer to rewrite a course's whole curriculum. When I asked about compensation, first I was told they could pay me, but that was rescinded as soon as I accepted the project. One year later, I'm getting my PhD all the way across the country.
If "dry promitions" start becoming a thing, you'd batter start trying to find out about the financial condition of your employer. They could be going broke.
Dry Promotion is just a cuter way to say ‘Exploitation.’
When you wouldn't think the job market couldn't get any worse...
Well, it can.
You're fking hilarious. Subbed and keep up the good work.
Get rid of corporations and bring back family owned independently owned businesses that existed from the beginning of civilization until the 60s and 80s when these corporate snakes came in
I agree.
Yes to companies and small mom-and-pops.
No to Corperations and conglomerates. At this point a no to anything that is trading public on the stock market.
Corporations are already done inherently very inefficient. Smaller businesses have a massive edge. The problem is corporations buy politicians who put regulations in place that a massive corporation can afford, but a small company cannot.
When a coworker was offered a dry promotion to supervise the position that he was currently in, the big boss doing the interviews pretty much told him that if he didn't take it, it might be given to someone who would not be pleasant to work for.
"Well boy howdie you may aswell just dry promote me all the way to CEO right now!"
CEOs of major companies aren't "promoted " the elected.
You want that route, start suck starting the board members
"What do you do when an employer offers you a dry promotion?"
That's easy.... you quit. Theyve already shown you that they don't value you enough to pay you for the extra work they're trying to give you. If they get away with it once, they'll just keep doing it. So just quit. Now, they're forced to pay to train someone else to take your position.
Quitting sometimes means no severance pay and they will find someone else who does the job, doesn’t matter even if they do it worse as long as they can pay them even lesser.
It can be a positive in these 2 cases. 1 - you already want to quit so doing that for few months will fluff up your CV, 2 - you are already almost irreplaceable but not there yet and this can push you there. Being irreplaceable means you can start demanding stuff (not asking for stuff, demanding it or you quit). Everyone else should just ask for money or turn it down.
NO DEAL IS BETTER THAN A BAD DEAL.
If my employer offered me a meaningless promotion, I will provide them the same level and value of work the promotion is.
I think a "Dry" promotion is a slap in the face. Essentially the company is saying be lucky you have this job. Now take this!!!
Gen Z are more reallists than my generation and they easily invite that "manager" to go take a hike.
Not in my experience. I work among lots of Gen Z and Millennials and they all brown nose. I'm part of Gen X and I've gotten in hot water for telling people off (including managers).
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z LOL you guys are the biggest kiss asses. im 30 but genz have more guts than you or i. LOL good joke though. most gen x never question the baby boomers.
I’m Gen Z myself and I say it’s a little bit of a half truth, there are some who are complete NPCs and are told what to think, as opposed to the others who are like “fuck work” completely and becomes a NEET, this is why I focus on being my own boss and focus on my priorities first and foremost. I think my generation should be a lot more like that.
lol no lol
The reason why "Quiet quitting" and "dry promotions" exist is because Gen Z has no spine. lol
Try putting that bullshit with some of the older generations and you got people quitting for a better job or the boss being told to fuck off.
All this "treat the employee nice and give them benefits" is propaganda to get people to accept less pay and more work lol
Ask for money, do the work, then fuck off. Dont expect more from the boss, dont expect less. Its a job not a marriage.
@@user-zr6pl6nb6z Yeah I had a similar situation to a dry promotion but in the extreme, my Gen X defiance took over and I went scorched earth on my management team and nuked my "career" over it, had simply had enough of the nonsense and vowed to NEVER work for someone else ever again
Back in the 90s my father ( who was already retired from US Army after 22yrs) was offered a dry promotion at his corporate job. His counter offer was he would take the promotion if he could work half days on Wednesdays ( because he wanted to golf). They said no. So my dad actually quit the job and took a job at the golf course working 24 hours a week for $5 an hour. The upside being he also made about $50 a day in tips and he got to play golf for free whenever he wanted. At the end of the day he was pulling about $300 a week and not paying for a single round of golf. Which was roughly equivalent to what he was making at the corporate job.
After a year I got a dry promotion, to a Sr. Level position. No pay increase, instead 10k worth of equity options.
The company went from a 1.3 Billion evaluation to a 600 million evaluation the previous 18 months, and was taking on an additional 100 million in VC equity.
I would have literally lost money if I had paid for the options.