4 Reasons Why The VR6 Engine Is Dying Off
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- 4 Reasons Why Volkswagen's VR6 Engine Is A Dying Breed
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Volkswagen's VR6 engine is seeing less implementation as the years go on. No longer used in the VW Golf, Jetta, Beetle, Corrado, Sharan, Phaeton, Eos, Audi A3, & Audi TT, and many others, it's kept alive in the VW brand by only the Touareg, Passat, and Atlas. What's the replacement? Mostly a 2.0L turbocharged inline four cylinder. Why? Well, there are a lot of benefits. In this video we'll discuss torque, power, weight, size, efficiency, consolidation, and the many advantages an inline-turbo four cylinder has to dethrone the eclectic VR6.
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From a dude that loves the VR6, the new engines are so awesome.
Thanks for hanging Jason. Always fun times
Love working with ya Charles. Mostly it's the wicked beard, but you also have sweet props! ;)
Engineering Explained alls the props
I really liked this video and format, with someone who is really into a particular brand or technology talking about its features. I'd like to see more like it... @HumbleMechanic this vid would have been good without you... it was awesome with you, thanks for the time you put into making it happen.
Any possibility we can get a vid on what the engineering differences in the block are for a naturally aspirated engine vs. one designed for a turbo or supercharger?
I own a 2,9l VR6 with 190hp in the VW Corrado. For comparison I can cite the 1,4l 160 TSI in the Scirocco, and the 2,0 TSI 200hp in the Audi TT.
Both newer engines seem strong at first because of the low down torque/power, but when you rev them you are quickly disappointed, because they drop off already at 5500 rpm.
Next is the response. The VR6 kicks the newer engines' ass in that regard. I personally can't stand turbo lag.. totally unacceptable, controlling power during cornering and coming out of the corner is much harder.
Next is the sound.. okay, we don't even have to talk about that, do we? ;)
Nope, the new engines are not awesome. What would be awesome if VW used modern technology to tune the VR6 design for higher revs and higher power - I wouldn't mind buying a 2017 Corrado with a light 2,5l VR6 up front with a 120hp/l output, proper light weight design, proper suspension and diff, sticky tires etc that I could go hunt 911s with ;)
Why do we keep talking about fuel economy numbers that we get from the EPA? Their measuring does not accurately tell the fuel economy. You can't actually drive as the test is and hope to get the numbers.
So when is the EPA going to get fined and ruined for lying? VW did even though they were giving people want they want ( powerful cars and trucks that are economical).
This video should have been called "why medium displacement NA engines are being replaced by smaller displacement turbo-charged engines"
Jeff Beasley THIS lol
truth
Indrid Cold just look at Toyota's careful approach to the downsizing trend. Well, even though in some countries there is that 4-cyl turbocharged 1.2L available for the Corolla/Auris and the C-HR, it's still a more cautious move compared to Ford's usage of the 1.0L EcoBoost in the Euro equivalent to the Fusion. Plus in Russia and other CIS countries the Lexus NX had been available with a naturally-aspirated 2.0L engine along the 2.0L turbocharged (which is actually a different engine and not just a turbocharged version of the previous) and the 2.5L naturally-aspirated fitted to the hybrid versions.
Indrid Cold sounds like a subaru I might own🤔😅🤣
Indrid Cold that’s where your wrong. Small turbocharged engines have been popular in Europe for at least 15 years now. They don’t have many problems.
In the U.K. and Europe, nearly all engines are 4cyl turbos. They are the beige of the engine world. It's nice to hear and feel a different kind of power plant.
America got the 8 valve 4 cylinder engines with 88 horsepower, and a top speed of 100 mph in most of their small cars for many years. Only recently in the last 10 years have there been a lot of good 4 cylinder cars with turbochargers from the factory in America. Nobody ever wanted an 8 valve low revving 105 hp 4 cylinder engine in a Celica or a 12 valve 92 hp engine in a Tercel, but that's what American's got in the 1980's and 1990's. Just God awful truck engines in small cars with very poor handling. Oh and our trucks had 3 speed transmissions until the late 1980's, so for 50 years we had trucks that turned 3500 RPMS @ 60 MPH with a giant V8 engine sucking gallons of fuel per second.
@@Ritalie 2 valve and 3 valve
You're not supposed to combine the number of valves into a total.
Nowadays 3 cylinder turbos.. agghhh.. 😀
@@xavierrodriguez2463 Only counting a single cylinder's valves is an American thing.
@@EmyrDerfel I was confused about this lmao. Never heard someone count by cylinder until now.
The vr6 sounds soooo heavenly though....
AMBush Drift ayy its ambush
I am right there with ya.
ayyyeeee AMBush drift! love your channel bro
Yeah there's two things that kill sound, turbochargers, and Inline-Four.
alan!!!
I owned a 3.2L VR6 for 10 years. Not the fastest or lightest or best MPG, but damn it sounded good (with an exhaust) and never gave me any problems.
Ryan Fagan Wookie noises!!!
i was a tool and deleted the resonator mid box, and the Wookie died...shame on me.
Ryan Fagan I still love that sound every time I drive
Ryan Fagan, the key note. It never gave me any problems!
R32 is the most cutest sound ever💓💓💓
Then put forced induction on the VR6. Then do a comparison, forced induction will always look better that a natural aspirated power plant.
Bri Guy's Utoob :)
Yep but then it's even more space and even more weight. There are real benefits to an NA engine which VW probably likes about the VR6, but from an economy/torque perspective, the case really isn't there vs a turbo 4.
+HumbleMechanic hint hint, eh?
I heard there's supposedly a forced induction VR6 in development. My memory is a bit fuzzy, but I think they even had it on a concept car recently. 3 litre, I think? Smaller displacement for both better economy and space for the turbo, I'm guessing. I haven't heard anything recently though. I figured they'd release it with the Atlas, but I guess it's still being developed?
A company called TRD in the UK does a bolt on supercharger for the R32. It's a really neat unit with an inclusive lubrication that basically goes where the current air box is situated.
Still have a 1992 Corrado SLC from the first shipment off the boat from Germany. No rpm limiter. 6500 red line. It was just fully restored and only has 56k miles. Still pulls like a champ.
Jealous!
What if - VR6 Turbo... For the next R
We can dream..
Rokas Bilevičius OMGGGGGG
I wish, but I dont think they will stray from the i4 in a R for a while
Rokas Bilevičius
I wish they would. VR6 has been around for roughly 25 years now. VW better not Discontinue this tried and true motor.
Concept is a concept, doubt that they will start putting 6cyl engines again. Even Porsche went to 4 cylinders
For me the VR6 feels alive and characterful. Whereas the 2.0 just feels like any other standard engine, even though, as you pointed out, it is objectively better.
AaronAnonymous yes exactly
AaronAnonymous how so, the new ea888 is punchy as hell.
As an mk7 gti owner I can tell you the engine feels very alive. Especially after a stage 1 tune.
That's why I said "objectively" the newer engine is better, i.e. more fuel efficient, faster, etc, yet it feel like an appliance compared to the living, breathing thing that is the VR6. Sure you can tune them and they are very very fast, yet it doesn't evoke the same emotional response. At least in my case. And I'm not just saying this, in my actual experience from owning a MKIV R32 and now a MK7, the R32 always made me smile and felt special even when going slow (which it was always slow lol).
Lol well I have never experienced the VR6 so I can't really compare, but I love my MK7 GTI. It never fails to put a smile on my face whether I'm on my morning commute to work or just cruising around.
I had a new'95 Jetta VR6 back in the day. I'm a car geek, but never actually realized until recently that the VR6 only has one head. They cover engines up with so much plastic you can't see a darn thing unless you dig into them. Yes, that is REALLY narrow! Cool design.
I have a VR5 engine in my 2003 SEAT V5. In some ways a VR6 engine with a cylinder lopped off. Two notable characteristics - sounds lovely AND seems to have a very consistent level of torque. Pulls strongly from way down. Will pull happily in 5th gear at 30mph. But nice to rev too - lovely sophisticated sound.
Glad to see you profile this unique engine. My '94 Corrado VR6, which I owned from new for 12 wonderful years, was arguably the best application of this engine. It had a wonderful power delivery and an even better sound, and to think that Ferdinand Piëch wanted to kill it when he became CEO of the VW group, since it was a direct internal competitor to the same displacement V6 that he oversaw while at audi. Ironically, he captilized on this very same architecture for a number of subsequent engines, the crown prince being the Bugatti Veyron/Chiron!
The VR6 is an awesome engine.
12 valve 2.8L VR6 + Turbocharging and forged internals = FUN!
24 valve is better though
I actually prefer the 2V version. And why would you ever put a super/turbocharger on a FWD VW? It can barely handle the output of a stock NA engine.
stoneeh What? If you're having trouble putting the power down an a stock gti you should find a new hobby.
David Perry If you have the funds and want to build a 700hp+ vr6 is the way to go. Had a 400hp vr6 with stock pistons and melted it. Changed to forged pistons stock crank and rods. Then changed to turbo instead of nitrous lot's of power. But if you're not planning on building a car with more than 300hp the 1.8t would be better.
With the 12V they are forged from factory, people have made up to 700HP from stock internals...
i just pulled my '98 Mk3 Jetta VR6 out of storage today (hadn't driven it since 2013, only has 100k miles).... and oh my... the thing sounds so heavenly. its hard to imagine any cars that sound better than a 12v VR6. Buttery smooth as well.
Pity that alot of new VW folks won't get to experience it.
rvborgh very true I have a 98 VR6 Jetta GLX with a S- trim supercharger at 8psi with some other goodies that allow me to do 11.8 to 12.0 in a quarter mile
I love my power wagon
I have a Mk4 24v VR6 but im tempted to buy a Mk3 Jetta VR6 maybe next year.
I love my 3.6L VR6 CC it's rare.. I'm always standing out with all the 2.0T CC's
Yeah I drove a 3.6 passat for 6 years and loved it but the car was falling apart and I had to get rid of it
CC are nice motor's. I prefer them over a Passat.
Dude that’s my fav VW!! I’m saving for a 2016 CC VR6 currently! Those are super rare & nice! It’ll be my fourth VW
my dad owns a 2000' vr6 4wd golf, would never change it :)
so....an r32?
Andrew Testa nope, its the 2.8L
madremia willy nice I'd like that
there has never been a 4wd golf. the r32 is awd. Gti vr6 is fwd
OuTDARed, No actually in Europe you could get 4 motion with the 2.8. I used to think the same but I was wrong. The problem is though that its not tuned for performance and usually the suspension is softer on the 4 motions so it's not worth it most of the time.
vr6 sound
yup
Are you saying another reason it's dying off is because of the sound? or...
My 94 SLC VR6.....lost it to a head on collision 17years ago.. Still think about that sound and car itself till this day.
He's saying it sounds good.
screaming wookie!
I wish there was a company that would blueprint this engine. Cut a bunch of weight, make it more efficient in power.
Matt Greenland do you know any VR6 owners that would pay several grand for the privilege?
For sure, VW people are nutty.
DrewLSsix I would, eyes closed
I have a vr6
Why? Theres better engine designs out there....
I feel that this also applies to v6s in general. Many manufacturers are ditching their v6s in favor of a I4 Turbo. It's sad to watch, yet there are many good reason to make the switch.
Having heard and accepted all of their points towards the benefits of switching to 4-cylinders, I still have to say that pretty much the only advantage I saw for a 4-cylinder is the weight reduction on the front axle. The power delivery and fuel economy points are not as important, because these guys forgot to discuss the reliability concerns that a (relatively) more stressed smaller engine entails.
The first two reasons you mentioned applies to pretty much all naturally aspirated engines. More torque at low RPMs always helps since it reduces the amount of revving you need to do to accelerate and maintain speed.
Since tuning was brought up in the video, I wonder if car engines will follow the way of large commercial jet engines in the future. Jet engines are always produced with many ratings. To increase thrust, you just switch the rating plug to a plug with higher performance numbers.
The vr6 is not dying. Vw are coming up with 2.5L vr6 turbo engines
Don't you mean inline 5?
@@angelicolagi nope. They have both but i read some news on the coming 2.5L vr6. Im sure if you google it you will find it.
@@hendrikhanso makes no sense to me i have a 2.5L vr6 in a 06 jetta (mk4)
@@burningblackknight8237 no you dont. The only 2.5L vr is a vr5
@@hendrikhanso allright ima go check rn then i think it might be a 2.0L then cause i know its a vr6
The VR6 can perform just as well as the turbo 4 with changes to design of cam, intake, exhaust, cam, and ECU tune. The gti vr6 was designed for higher rpm performance to give a more exciting driving experience.
Personally I think the VR6 and W8-16 is a better way to get more displacement and cylinders in a smaller space. Not to mention you have less complicated system over turbo/supercharging and less stress on the engine.
I have a 2000 eurovan MV with a vr6 that only has 90,000 miles and love it. It gets 22 mpg on the highway.
2002 Eurovan with 240,000 miles, transmission is about to fall out. I'm considering a 2006 Touareg with 3.2L VR6. The V8 and 3.0L TDI options are much more torque for towing 7700 lbs, but they can't match my satisfaction with the VR6 reliabilty.
I love the vr6 engines! They sound really good with a borla muffler! I had a good experience driving my cousins supercharged and nitrous vr6 corrado with a stock motor. But I love the old 16v engines vw used to make too!
2.0t is very efficient but that plastic intake manifold drove me nuts! You could never beat the reliability of a VR6 though. Dare I say it... that VR6 exhaust note FTW!
"when I was a real engineer before I started doodling on white boards--" I love it lol
nothing sounds like a vr6 with open exhaust
Vr6 will never die you ego trippin for that one fam.
Vr6 is an incredible engine.
I like this dialogue format. Keep up this great work!
Great collaboration!! Love your work, together and independently - thanks for doing what you do
DigitalJeremy thanks so much
I love my 12v VR6. The pops, gurgles, torque, feels. VW love/powa
powa? LOL it can barely spin on loose gravel
LOL okay man no need for the ignorant comment
yeah exactly refrain from commenting next time. happy you got it by yourself, have an excellent day
wow the internet must really have you in a bind today. what do you drive again?
You haven't driven a vr. They spin through second. Turbo 1-5. Honda drivers.....
I really enjoy watching the two of you talk about things. Y'all come from two different perspectives that blend very well together.
What I heard is that the only problem with the VR6 is more of them aren't turbocharged from the factory.
I had a 2003 gti vr6 24v. Man I miss that car. owned if for 7 years. It sounded soooo good and it was so reliable.
I've had the exact same car for 18 years now, with 105,000 miles. No mechanical issues whatsoever. I mean none! I cannot believe how reliable this tank is! I'm shocked!
As soon as he said he loves the MKIV R32 I subscribed to Humble Mechanic
Csaba Molnar thank you!
HumbleMechanic no, thank you for knowing an amazing vehicle when you see one!
Csaba Molnar Here here! Subscribed!!
This is a great video, I love the back and forth discussion and I feel like you both respect each other's opinions.
Imagine if vw came out with a W12 atlas!! 🤤
Hasn't the Bentley got a W12 engine, which I think is 2 VR6 engines glued together?
VW designed a new VR6 for the Chinese Teramont, which is a 2.5 VR6 with a turbocharger.
I've come across quite a few mk4 diesels, not completely dead. They're surprisingly desirable to be quite honest, my mk4 Jetta is. 1.8turbo and I'd much rather have a diesel.
Peepmysneaks ALH tdi is king. I popped my head gasket in my ‘01 a couple years ago at 300k and drove it for another 75k. Ran perfectly. Original clutch. 45-50mpg. If only I had enough coin at the time I’d have done the head and it would be pushing 400k rn. Currently driving a ‘96 1z tdi passat wagon and I’m very happy with it. Hopefully ill source an engine for the golf and get it back on the roads soon though.
Most drivers do not understand that a turbo increases stress in the engine. This means shorter lifetime.
Moreover a turbo is another thing to repair or replace.
Modern 6- and 8-cylinder engines commonly use cylinder deactivation when full power is not needed.
When cylinders are deactivated, the engine has effectively a smaller displacement.
yep make the consumer pay for the environment while the companies just make more profit.
"When I used to be a real engineer before just doodling on whiteboard" That's when the humble mechanic new that they could no longer be friends.
On a serious note, great video and great topic. We might grab the VR6 Atlas and I'll definitely tune and turbo it if the room allows.
Bambataa thanks. It has plenty of turbo room. It was clearly designed with a TDI option in mind
You are welcome. I wish they never killed the TDI here in North America. We are taking our 2014 Jetta TDI for a buyback and I can't find any 2015 TDIs, but we need a bigger vehicle and the Atlas with the VR6 is top of the list.
Sorry but i skipped the commercial before this video. I normally always watch the commercials to support your channel but this time it was 29 min!!!
When the commercial is longer than the video it's too much.
But I enjoyed the video though. I personally love the VR6. Just the sound it makes can bring a smile on my face.
When you turbocharge an engine it has a shorter service life. I’d take a VR6 any day over a turbo 4.
Of course i agree who needs more power for f sakes top hiway speed is 100km.i own a 91 passat with a 1.9l td 80hp. Its good enough for me.
gulfy09, I agree completely. Even an MGB GT “needs” no more than 200bhp. Hang either an 5 or 6 speed gearbox behind the engine with a modified Jaguar IRS and you have a world class coupe! A twin cam engine with 2 liters displacement and 2 Webber 40 IDA’s and it’d be perfection.
I love a straight six (Or slant six) and I have to admit, a lot of that has to do with the way they sound. The VR6 is kind of a next best thing, but it's personal preference. I haven't tried the new turbo engines, because I hate how big and heavy the Golf has become.
I have customers with 430 thousand miles on the pd engines, 20v T at 330, look after any engine it will look after you
International unit for torque is Nm (Newton-meter). lb-ft is a local unit in some areas.
International unit for "mileage" can be km/l (kilometers pr. liter), or instead you can specify fuel consumption in liters pr. 100 kilometers, which is now more commonly used. Miles pr. gallon is a local unit in some areas.
By the way: The conversion factor for torque from lb-ft to Nm is almost the same as the conversion factor for power from kW to HP, but that is just a coinsidence.
(off topic) I don't see why y'all hate on VW, the Dodgy american brands (see what I did) are probably much worse at emissions if compared in the same ways as the VWs.
FCA is also pending litigation with regard to defeat devices. VW gets crap because they intentionally cheated the system, and lied to customers. There's never going to be a time where that's okay. They could have also acted much more quickly in the best interest of their customers who did indeed by their diesel products once the scandal broke.
For some reason my comment wasn't posted as a reply to someone else (but ty for replying!)
From the coverage here in the UK, VW didn't intentionally cheat the system, some of the engineers at VW cheated the system without telling the big bosses, I know that counts as VW, but yeah the big guys didn't do it on purpose from what I've heard.
I still think Diesel won't die just yet though, once we get more affordable Electric cars with more range, then diesel will die for the General Public.
(Big fan of Tesla here lol)
big love
Engineering Explained which is a shame since diesel cars seem to be few and far between these days. unless you want a pick up truck
Engineering Explained Maybe you can answer this question for me. Are diesel motors more expensive than gasoline engines? Example, a 2.0l turbo diesel vs. a 2.4L 4cyl. The reason why I ask this question because the diesel version of cars are always more expensive than the gasoline version of the same model.
They just last longer, therefore, it is more valuable and the maintenance cost for diesel is skyrocketing. With maintenance costs increasing, it takes longer to see the lower cost benefits of a diesel. Its a shame vw is killing the diesel line, i was looking forward to the Amarok with a diesel.
I have had 4 VW Golf (VR6, VR6 syncro and 2 x V6 4M) with that engine and they were a riot! Wonderful sound. Good pull and very fun drive. Great engines!
Reason to buy VR6 is a freaking sound and unique design
The GTR r35 use a vr6
I feel like something overlooked on VR engines is how well they breathe. The unequal length intake and exhaust ports lend themselves to unequal breathing between the banks. One bank doesn't scavenge as well and the other doesn't get the "tunnel ram" effect. I can imagine emissions are fun to deal with due to the different parameters between cylinder banks. The VR6 also shares one of its flaws with the Ford Flathead V8, the long exhaust ports dump a lot of the remaining heat into the cylinder heads. This may cause the long intakes to warm up, further decreasing efficiency, aswell as making cooling of the cylinder head all the more trouble.
The VR6 is a great idea in concept but flawed in some ways that other engines simply aren't.
Wow America still gets the VR6 in 2017!? The last time we were offered it in the UK was around 2009/10!!
I can see why VW wants to unify everything down to the bare minimum. So why aren't VAG cars cheaper than all their competitors that don't benefit from the same economies of scale as VAG?
i have owned a 2000 gti with the 12v vr and 5 speed and then i had an 03 gli with the 24v vr6 and a 6 speed and i loved them both. absolutely loved both cars. now i own a 2014 gli 2.0t and that engine is a whole nother ball game from the mk4s vr
and my dumbass is over here building a turbo'd vr6 lolol
im build a 01 vr6 as well.
built block; IE connecting rods, JE pistons 9:1, bored to a 2.9L.
built transmission. with a Wavetrac LSD
Links Standalone
currently cheaped out on my turbo kit and went ebay. im going to be upgrading the manifold and turbo in a few months with a tubular top mount manifold and a 6766 precision turbo.
my goal is to hit 600+ with the precision, anything above 350 on the ebay i'll be happy.
yessir ! 2001 12v vr6 golf gti... i love it! actually getting everything installed next weekend. should be a blast!
Andd very nice man unfortunately I love in California and the smog is ridiculous. I wish I could turbo charge and build my car but it's alright. I want to get a r32. the older r32 like the 05 and such are beautiful but I do like the 3.6l r32. I forgot what year. but that's my dream car man
Spawn and Batman with the amount of money I've put into my vr6, I could have had an R32 and put some basic mods on it haha. But that's okay, it'll be a blast beating people in a fwd golf :)
Andd
how much boost can a vr handle? and how much power you expecting?
As a former MKIV owner and new Golf R owner. This video nails it!
I love the VW - bashing, when Coalrolling is considered something like a sport in the USA.
Coal rollers are braindead
As much as I respect the 2.0 TSIs, there's just something about that VR6 that makes me sad to see it go. I've driven the Golf MK III VR6, the Mk V R32 and the (IMO) fantastic Passat R36 - and all of them felt pretty special. And the sound was just incredible in all of them.
Just turbo a VR6 🙂
Alvin Ameyaw At HUGE cost.
And, it would go in a what? Truck or Van from VW would be diesel. So, that leaves sports cars ...... the engine rev potential? Weight of block? How much torque/hp until the block or other components breaks? Does it retain drivable characteristics? Then, fuel economy. I will bet you Audi/VW investigated this and decided it was easier to start over and too few would get excited enough about this engine in a car. I mean it would be replacing a V8 (V8 > VR6 for sound). But, these guys are forgetting something. The W12 engines are almost two of these smashed together (piston layout wise).
the ATLAS in china is called TERAMONT and comes with turbocharged VR6 2.5L 299BHP
The ford ecoboost f-150 has a twin turbo V6. The raptor uses the same engine.
It's really not that expensive to boost a VR and have both reliability and power on stock internals. Split head gasket, copper spacer , bearings, good turbine , the right pipes lines and tune and you're not gonna exceed 2500 to 3 k for the total cost if you do it yourself and know how to do it right
I've had my awesome '03 GTI VR6 for 18 years now... original owner. I purchased the car in October 2002, and it has been, by far, the most reliable car I or my family has EVER owned! As a daily driver, it has had NO mechanical issues or problems. I just put full synthetic in it once a year, and use Shell Premium fuel. I have 105,000 miles on it, original chains too. This car is a TANK! Always puts a smile on my face! Probably the most reliable car VW has ever released. In addition, I have never changed the manual transmission fluid (VW recommends never changing this fluid for the lifetime of the vehicle)! It still shifts like new!
nice vid like always! can you do one commenting on all the manufacturers using smaller engines? I know this is a trend dating to the muscle car era (V8 to V6, V6 to 4 cylinder in top level trims) is this good or bad having so much power in fewer cylinder smaller displacement engines?
I average about 28 in my 6MT MKV. Due to the reliability issues I've had with the 2.0 FSI, I wish I would've went with a VR6 MKIV instead. VW should've added boost to the VR6.
Isn’t the Bentley V12 just 2 of those joined together in one casting?
He’s got spirit
I have a 3.2 VR6 (BUB) and a 2.2 I5 turbo (AAN) in my cars. Perhaps VR6 is being phased out, like I5 mostly was some 20 years ago. In great cost to enjoyment, once again.
So, the I4 benefits are: 1) Less moving parts 2) Cheaper to manufacture 3) Half a cylinder shorter engine, fits more cars(?)
Downsizes are: 1) No torque at 900-1000rpm 2) Exhaust note 3) Engine vibrations 3) No power stroke overlap at all
Sounds like a bad deal to me. If you use the same modern tech for "old" engine layouts, they also benefit. TT RS 5cyl turbo comes to mind. Or just add a turbo to your VR6.
How is the VR6 a dying breed when the only company that makes them is still using them in quite a few vehicles they sell? Didn't think that one through..
suzuki400boi they no longer use it in enthusiast vehicles and the remaining vehicles that use it are on old platforms and not destined to have vr6 post upgrade
Wrong, the Arteon R will have a Turbo Vr6 and word is the next R32 will also utilize that same turbo VR6. That motor is far from dead.
suzuki400boi share a link please!
@@FastPaull because 'muricans said so xD They even think the TDI is dead.
Love to see an engineer and a mechanic in the same video!
When are we going to see you on Top Gear?
I have a VR6 24v and it isnt the fastest engine or best MPG, but... I just love the way the engine feels and runs... and it's humm is so epic.
1:03 I was wondering where the whiteboard was gone. Answered
Guys, this video truly inspires me to stop and think deeply about what we are trying to achieve with engine design and packaging. I wanted to step back a little from this look at the incremental improvements that are ongoing in this video and ask a bigger question - what do we really want to achieve? If we assume, conventional vehicle with wheels, tires, passenger compartment, combustion engine, etc. Then, what is the ultimate evolution of combustion engine design/packaging? Going back to first principles, what do I want from a combustion engine? IMO, this ideal design would be a device where we send fuel in and take power out and, of necessity, exhaust. Ideal packaging size? - As small as possible to be able to get the power out. What should it weight? - As little as possible? How should it packaged? One engine per wheel? One engine per axle? Some completely new configuration (not yet conceived) that is only possible because of small packaging? ???
All of this evolution seems to require two particular enablers in order to progress. One, is better materials which makes things that were difficult(or impossible) to produce cheaply a while ago, practical and affordable today - example - stainless steel exhaust systems. Two, is better ideas (engineering) on to how to configure things (materials availability held constant) to perform better. Sometimes we see incremental improvement as is the case you describe in this video and sometimes we see paradigm shifts where huge leaps are made in one step. I’d describe evolved control systems of a vehicle one of the paradigm shifts - example EFI - once introduced; essentially all vehicles start easily and run smoothly all the time. Same for ABS - now a person with no special skills or knowledge can brake a vehicle to it’s maximum capability buy doing only what come naturally - press the brake pedal as hard as possible.
I realize I have taken this to the extreme but what are others thinking about the evolution of combustion engine design and packaging?
A turbo VR4, hmmm?
Frederik Krabbe maybe a double vr4 so like two vr4s mounted in a V8 configuration and the ideas go on haha
I am aware of V4's have been made, and it wasn't a completely serious comment, as I doubt it would be very effective.
Richard Hunter i saw one of those 2 months ago! i had to check if it was a troll or if it really existed xDD
But I4 also needs balancing(balance shaft), so is VR4 even less balanced?
SI0AX Honda makes a v4 bike motor that's beautifully smooth.
this has to be my favorite episode e/e and charles talking about vr6s
I need to swap this in my TT (;
Gabriel1996 Didn't some tt come with a 3.2 vr6? or was it just a 3.2 v6.
Elijah Chu yup they did but they're really to come by nowadays. They are Pretty rare actually lol
I like you guys working together... nice explanation Jason as always...I wish you would discuss the VW TDI pros and cons and compare between the emissions of the 2.0 TDI and other gas and diesels on the road
You hear how hard VW got hit but no one ever discusses the Cruze turbo diesel or how much a pickup with a turbo diesel produces
Vr6 or die
TheSengga you dissin I5 and wankels? u wot m8
Had a 1995 VR6. Sold the car 13 years old in 2008. Engine had over 360000 km. Absolutely fantastic engine. Never had any major mechanical problems, and oil c I sumtion was zero from service to service. only work done was some pulleys ans rubber hoses replacements.
Saving space give engineers flexibility, but does it give them reach? ;-)
Great video. Good combination of instructors, could not be a better combo. Good job guys.😃
I appreciate the enthusiasm the humble mechanic has of VW cars, but in my country, VW cars are crappy as hell. In Dominican Republic they are well known for being one of the most unreliable, expensive-to-repair and devalued cars in the market.
every car that go there turn into a pile of crap in 3 months. the problems are not the cars, but the way people use and ''''''''''''''''''''''''maintain''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' them
David Levy Pérez North America too don't worry
You are overlooking the awesome performance of the 2.5 l inline 5 cylinder
If a vr6 had advantages, then why not use a vr4 vs a straight 4?
Daniel M. Ramos kinda what I was thinking
Daniel M. Ramos There's no reason for a VR4 that takes up similar space as a turbo inline 4. The VR6 had beneficial packaging vs a traditional V6, because it's much narrower and you had a lower part count with only one cylinder head and valvetrain instead of 2 on a V6.
I have a 2006 gti and I tuned it and gained 85 horsepower and 110ftlb of torque. totally changed the car and I love it. better mpg. more power.
In Europe the VR6 cannot be found in any new car,. But soooooo many diesels :D
derherberter that's gonna be a really bad idea.. so many cars are diesels it's impossible to replace the in a second.. every rental, company car, police car, ambulance and so many "normal" cars are diesels.. not talking about trucks and busses
what about the golf vr6, dan? and many more? go to europe to get some culture. and knowledge. or education.
As an Audi B5 S4 (stg 3) owner, I still think the purest sound of any moderately priced modern car is the VR6. I happen to like the early versions of it (non coil on plug). I'd like to buy a VR6 Corrado as a project car. I love this channel. Thank you.
The AUDI 2.7l V6 biturbo is the engine for your car. Between others, it sounds good not only from the exhaust, (as the VR6 does), but even when you open the hood, since works with belts and not with chains, (as the VR6 does not).
why not putting a turbo on a vr6!?
also vr6 sound os amazingg!
Maxi Biscardi cost
there a lots of vr6 turbos out there m8 :D
Not many people are willing to mostly BCS many consider stupidly that VW sucks
I love the vr6 motor, very smooth sound awesome and they're strong as hell so they love boost too
To me VR6 is overly complicated for the benefits it offers. V6 or turboed I4 will be sufficient in most cases and often easier to repair and more reliable.
Greetings from a german Engineer!
The VR5 and VR6 engines in Germany about 10 years ago. The were all replaced by 2.0 I4 Turbo.
The Golf R MK5 and or Passat B7 ( Engine portfolio nearly didn't change from B6) were the last with this engine.
They were just kept for your market ( North und South America) because the costumer didn't´t want a 4 Cylinder.
You always get a bigger engine with less power than the smaller engine boosted up.
You decide which one would be better.
But even now for you the bigger will die because for car manufactures it is too expensive to built too many different variants of engines. The production tools must to be useful for alle the lineup for example. Audi for example uses 2.0l I4, 3.0l V6 and a 4.0 V8. They all have 0,5l bore per Cylinder. The blocks and headers are able to have similar parts too then.
The have to lower the production costs.
building up a vr6 to put back into the ugliest golf vw made? c'mon.. stick it into a mk2 or mk1 at least. only good thing about mk3's is the vr6 engine, that's why you don't see any around, everybody took their engines.
Nick Nack I already did the mk1 vr6 thing.
This engine is going back to its original home. ;)
Alright that's fair enough then. sorry, don't know who you are just assumed. good on you.
i have a 98 mk3 gti vr6 with a intake and im the only one that has it in my city and it has about 127k miles on it and i never took it out during winter and of course i baby it all the time
also: disadvantage of straight/vr6 is the 7 mains, causing friction/pumping loss especially when oil is cold. then that big wide head being costly to manufacture. and....extra couterweights on the crank also decrease efficiency when the engine is cold...doesn't spin up as fast.
Yet 4 cylinders sound like a weedwacker
What amazing weed whacker do you own!?
Well, certainly they do not sound good, otherwise they would not amplify and fake the sound inside the cabin through the speakers ...
Engineering Explained '15 s3
Engineering Explained I4s could sound alot better than they do. Listen to the newer Yamaha R1.
"Sorry, I can't hear you over my Boxer Rumble!" #Flat4HorizontallyOpposedEngine
Not all 4-cylinders sound like weed whackers...
Great video. I have to say my heart will always be with the VR6! My wife says the same! She has a 02 Jetta VR6. Loves it! Its awesome!
rule number 4 isn't relevant for VWs. most of their engines suck especially the tfsi versions. the pistonsgaskets are a little too small so in colder climates(northern europe), the gaskets don't seal properly and most of the engines break after only 60 or 80 thousand miles(about 100 to 120 thousand kilometers). The problem is so bad that all vw dealers in Denmark have mechanics whose only job is to change engines, even the smaller dealers who only have 10 or 15 people working there.
anermand I've never had that problem lol. 198k miles, 13 years in Michigan (a state infamous for cold weather), and my 1.8T is fine.. I recently took it on a 500 mile trip
Heartagram the good old 1.8 turbo engines were amazing! their were built great, but their werent tfsi either... that was only implemented in engines after 2005 in their 1.4 engines and in 2008 ish in their 1.8 and 2.0 engines. these engines are the shitty ones...
anermand VW, a brand based in Germany, where in winter it gets, depending on location, as cold as Denmark, makes cars that are not good for cold weather?
TheEpicSpaniardRS Apparently we only have the problem north of berlin. As soon as you're south of there the engines last fine. pretty much the same story for rust as vw also use slightly cheaper metal in their cheaper cars. well... all german cars do that maybe except for BMWs... they still have higher grade iron and aluminum in all of their cars... for now...
anermand This only affects longitudinal engines on a4, a5 etc. There are many tfsi engines. Not all are the same. The latest gen3 is great.
I see some Rogue Brewing Co. decals behind you. Nice! Also, thank you for not saying "Foot pounds."
:) :) I will say that the words "foot pounds" does usually come out of my mouth in causal conversation. LOL I try to make sure I say it right for videos. HAHA
diesel electric please
Low end torque of a diesel with the torque of a electric motor. There's a reason why they're rare. Gas is better because you can cruise and get good mileage and the electric can accelerate you from a stop.
Electric has no soul though.
James Smith yes, like gasoline engine.
Steam power FTW.
The VW X1 is diesel electric.
Germany making U-Boats again???
Regarding effeciency you're totally right. But the VR6 is more fun to drive and sounds awesome.
VW powwwaa
I have a vr6 mk4 gti, a 1.8 t mk1 225 TT, 2.0T A4 and Flying Miata turbo NA8 Miata. The turbo cars are tuned and make way more power and torque over the vr6 BUT I drive the VR6 for the exhaust sound. Everytime you rev it the sound is so wonderful you just have to grin. When you go to a car meet just give it a bit of throttle when moving it around and people will flock to see what is under the hood that made that glorious sound. The is way more to an engine then torque or HP curves. Turbos make sense but I think they lack soul. I also ride a vintage two stroke street bike, you talk about a neck breaker!
Wow, this was a disappointing video. I was hoping to hear something about R6 vs V6 vs VR6 regarding vibrations and firing order.
As the title suggests, that's not what this video is about. If you want info on vibration, firing order, balance, etc, check out videos discussing the specific engines:
V6 Engine - th-cam.com/video/YMoDcKXiKME/w-d-xo.html
VR6 Engine - th-cam.com/video/Y0LKWt3Ttic/w-d-xo.html
Thanks, I'm checking those out immediately!
The whole video was spent on explaining why the VR6 is dropping off and your only objective statement is that it has the same advantages of the I4. That was the entire point of the VR configuration. I'm pretty sure in a world with hundreds of actual professionals, they don't need any excuse at all to do what they think they need to do.
200-300HP out of a I4, with good low-mid torque is definitely good for 90+% of people. especially if it gets 28+ MPG on the highway.
What a passive aggressive layman remark. Nothing in engineering is implicit. There are reasons why anything is done. The only way to prove you even have a point is to make a video of your own explaining why every engineer in a massive automobile company is wrong. You're just saying words. This video showed a summarized set of data to support its point. You saying it's not convincing is just you disagreeing for subjective reasons.
As a former VR6 GTI owner (1999.5) I miss it's power and sound but not the incessant check engine light. Looking at the torque curves I think of Analog Vs. Digital.
Volkswagen was boring and it's getting even more boring, sadly.
I've been trying to decide on a quick and affordable car and the GTI on paper is a great choice. I just can't bring myself to buying a shrunken down minivan. That car is so damn ugly.
edit: golf gti
Ofcourse GTI is a choice. It's one of prob. three cars in that GTI-genre you should buy.
Moby Dick. Far superior? Just because you own a Honda doesn't mean it's far superior to a GTI.
kanervatie exactly. Compare the Civic type R to another R model for example the golf R. Nothing touches VW/Audi interior and exterior so you get your money's worth with VW/Audi cars. They are far more superior.
Got a GTI and it's not boring, your useless statements have no substance
While I was unaware of this Engine with its particular cylinder layout until I watched your video. Thank you, I myself follow closer machines of the two-wheeled nature, especially since I live in the city that Harley-Davidson was born. Motorcycles are extremely big thing here and now with spring and summer approaching it's going to start getting loud again. As far as motorcycle engine design goes. One of my favorite engine designs was the square four first popularized on Ariel motorcycles then years later taken up by Suzuki. Although the most interesting engine design I have ever seen was from Honda, the NR 750 with its 32 valve, oval pistons with twin connecting rods is by far the most interesting engine design I have ever seen.🤓