You’ll probably have to wait until next edition like the Necrons with their Reanimators and Cryptothralls 😅They were trash last edition and now are going for big money on eBay
Agreed on the Screamer-Killer. He's about 40-50 points overcosted. Both the Neurotyrant and the Psychophage are good though. The Neurotyrant has been auto-include in every one of my lists, especially with the synergy of the Neurolictor. At 105 points he's a steal. The Psychophage is a bit pricey and depends on your detachment. He's okay in most detachments but really shines in an Assimilation Swarm. After you've included the mandatory 3 x Haruspex, several Psychophage are the way to go.
@dominikvonlavante6113 good stuff, with gw being unreasonable with rules it's about time people start homebrewing and tweaking like people do with dnd
id believe that if the norn emissary was actually good. its not good though. so i dont fully buy that theory. the norn emissary is really bad compared to the maleceptor theres no reason to ever buy one.
@@Khobai The Emissary doesn't have to be better than the Maleceptor; it just has to be better than the Tyrannofex. They need it to be competitive with kits that are actually in stock on shelves, which the Maleceptor is not. It's still conspiratorial and would be stupid on GW's part, but the treatment of the points for this faction has been stupid regardless
@@alfred8936 yes but its still not good enough to drop $100 to buy. i gotta think the only people buying it are GW shills really. its not even a good looking model IMO. the model is way too busy looking and the way the heads look are just goofy.
Not sure about t fex being nerfed to sell more new models, but i can definitely see GW pulling some kind of stunt to sell more of the new models. After all, nearly 50% of nid range has been 'temporarily out of stock online" on GW website for the whole of 10th edition so far. Seriously, they didnt even restock despite the tyranids being the first official codex release in the new edition, and a huge chunk of the range (especially more popular high selling models) not available online on launch weekend? Either complete incompetence or GW are up to intentional shenanigans. Regardless, it looks very bad for their image.
@@_SpiritDan_this isn't super accurate anymore, and a few of them had even restocked before the holiday season, some several times. Do you have emails on? I think after they restock you have to reactivate them, which is really annoying. I haven't seen Haruspex, Maleceptor, or Exocrine, granted. But I think at least the exocrine is probably getting a remodel to keep them in line with the bio and pyrovores
@@equos5060 oh absolutely. I bought two, in fact. It's a big kit and honestly surprisingly cheap compared to the other MCs in the Tyranid army Have built one, will get it painted soon. Not sure if the other one will end up as a Tervigon
i ran him whit Rupture cannon and my boy held the line vs everything took on knights grand masters and lived its sad to see him sit there waiting to not cost me 1/8th of my army while only being 1/20 of the fire power
Im still frustrated that the trygon no longer has its tunnelling ability to deepstrike other units, since that always was its unique ability. It plays like a mawloc, not a trygon.
in my experience the mawlocs the better pick. I have both and Mawloc does more consistent damage. Granted I do play against necron infantry alot, the mortal wounds deepstrike is just too good. Having both in a list is orgasmic though, they do soooo much damage
@@websta1144 In my experience the trygon is way better because of the Rapid Ingress, which can deep strike it almost anywhere on the field, which gives you big opportunities to score points, disrupt your opponent or deal loads of damage, but the efficiency isn't really what my problem is. Both the units play like mawlocs are described, but neither play like Trygons are described. If feels like they took the abilities of the mawloc and split them between the two units, then left the trygon description on the drawing board.
I saw someone do that with a full squad of 30 termagants with devourers using a trygon prime And then used the primes psychic shit to let the termagants Fire again He nuked a land raider and nearly a venerable Dreadnaught on the turn they arrived...
Don't increase wounds, give it a decent invul save instead. As it stands, you can drop-pod it in with a Tyrannocyte which is really funny even if it isn't optimal
I disagree with surprisingly many, but that is at least partly thru the tier list in itself. A lot of units are only viable in specific combinations and/or lists, which is completely overlooked in the list. The Tervigon is overall trash, but good in an Unending Swarm detachment since it buffs the unit you are spaming anyways (and is the best receiver for the Naturalised Camouflage enchancement. The Mawloc is decent as a distraction and blocking unit. The dmg against infantry is high enough that you can't just ignorie it so it can threaten something important. Thing is that you have to take it in a BigBug list or it eats all the heavy weapons and just dies. The role is unappraciated so I get that it is put lower than the Trygon, but mathematically it's actually more cost efficient. Both kill about 4 marines, with a 35pt difference. Sure, the Trygon is better vs bigger models, but the S9 prevents it from being actually good. Warriors with Melee Weapons are actually not that bad in a Vanguard Onslaught detachment since the Winged Prime gives them advance and charge. They are still overcosted, but if you can give them the +1 to hit and wound bonus they do decent work. Their problem is that this isn't a default option and they are still not stellar in it (since they need a Strat, so either having a tyrant in the list or spending the valuable resource on them). So once again they are either good or trash, depending on the context. Gargoyles are auto include in every list for me. The mobility is insale for a battleline, they are cheap and they can hide much better than most other fragile units. With indirect fire not being spamed as much anymore they are great in almost every list. You can even block a non-flying army from leaving their deployment zone with their 12+d6+6 movement range, giving you a massive advantage in the game. Taking over the midfield is the main reason why first turn is so strong and they can double down on the effect. The Lictor is the best backfield holding unit in the army. Only 3" drops can tough him while your whole army is in the midfield. It doesn't matter that they aren't as good as the other two variants, they are still amazing for every list. Norn Emissarys on objectives are insanely durable which makes them the perfect unit to hold one while the rest of your army deals with the opponent. They not only do something no other unit can do (at least not as well) but also support your army while doing it. 18" shooting isn't amazing but should be enough if you sit on the middle of the board and it's really decent. In addition they are synapse, so you don't need to worry taking any additional synapse untis, which you could see as an additional 65+ pts discount for the army. One of the best units in the faction. Carnifexes and OOE specifically are only good in combination with each other and in an Invasion Fleet. Everywhere else both their dmg-output and -resistence drops dramatically. Before the Balance Dataslate they where actually kind of a trap against armies like Aeldari, which had a hyper-effective was to kill most if not the whole army in a turn via Devastating Wounds. They are significantly better now, but still not as good as many hype them up to be. Which is the reason they aren't as common in winning competitive lists as a tier 1 unit should be. Genestealers+Broodlord are pretty bad. Not because of the points but because they barely do enough dmg to ustify the cost of units that do much more, are more dorable and not es specialized as them. Even with good rolls on DevWounds they don't drop a tough target and just bounce of things like terminators while easily dying to things like Overwatch. Their problems aren't so much the stats as their functionality. Sure, they can scout ahead and get a turn 1 charge in.. but that only works against people that still didn't learn how to screen of units and might very easily die trying to Overwatch. If they had S5 and D2 they would at least had a role vs heavy infantry or something. The way they are right now I don't see any reason to take them. The Winged Prime was trash before we got all the enchancements only he can get and which are so powerful that you are willingly just paying the ~100 pts for synapse and the effect in the unit. But that isn't true for every detachment. They are still outer trash for halve of the detachments and have only worth as the cheapest synapse creature. Failed profile design that is uphold by extremely good enchancements. The Parasite of Mortrex does very little useful without Synapse (which it only has access to in a IV detachment). Even the chance of spawning Rippers is worth less since you can take single bases. It's not trash, but it's just not doing much either, so below average. Swarmlord is way overpriced. He has the same dmg-output as the normal Tyrant, which is already a wet noodle for his cost. The Vect is great, but not worth the premium cost for a decent psionic shooting and underwhelming cc. Neurolictors are amazing for their points. But mainly because they are too cheap for a T5, 7 wound, 4+ invuln model with Lone Operator. Their main ability is great if you can trigger it, which means you either build your army around stuff that does, or it's a gimmick that can randomly work or not, possibly leaving the model out in the open without the LoneOp protection. As great as the model is I think it's a trap for many inexperienced players that will try to force it to work and loose stuff because of it. Maleceptor is a bit overrated for whatever reason. They are great against Termis. But Other than that the S10 is just as good as the S8 of the Exocrines, which means you pay premium for the invuln that is only relevant against weapons that have at least AP-3 (lowers 3+ in cover under the 4+ invuln) and in range of the Exo with it's 36" range. With the shorter range you are more vulnerable to shorter range high dmg weapons and you get neither a 2+ from heavy nor give any boni vs the target once hit. Which makes the Maleceptor overall a worse than an Exocrine. I have the fleeing that many spam them just because they saw them in top lists, not understanding that the -1 to hit is a hard counter vs GSC, which made the Maleceptor so important for that matchup. That isn't as important anymore with the Norn's being tough enough to tank the demolition charges and with additional options to either prevent them from dropping into a range or overwatching them to death. The Hive Tyrant is far from the auto pick it was before the free strat change. Most detachments have only 1 or 2 tactical strats and not all are worth taking a 235 model over it. They are still good in the IV because of the FnP strat and in VO for the Battle-shock strat. Other than that I probably wouldn't take them to be honest. The dmg is not that good, they are not that tough and the buffs are not that relevant for most of the army. An overall meh. Pyrovores are cheap for the profile. But with the 80mm base it's very hard to move them around now. I wouldn't advice anybody to take more than 2-3 single models, simply because you probably won't be able to move them anywhere without a Tyrannocyste. Which is great fun for dropping in 4 models with a giant base and flame the heck out of something.. but in most games you will have just as much problems setting them up as moving them around. The most controversal take will probably be that I am not all that amazed by the single base Rippers. Sure, they can score a mission after dropping in. Just as you can do with a spore mine from a Biovore, that itself is zoning your backfield, possibly holding an objective while being decently tough vs ligh indirect fire. A ripper is instantly dead as soon as something looks in it's general direction. And even with the small space it occupies you still need your opponent to leave out enough space for it to drop in. So this works only against specific armies or reckless opponents. It's far from useless, but it is currently a bit overhyped. Especially since the point cost got significantly increased and nobody took them for 45 pts. I just don't think they are as high up the scale as people think atm. Tyranids are much more about synergy and understanding all moving parts than most other armies. You can rely on Custodes doing what they do just by their stats alone. But Tyranids are either great or trash depending on how you combine and use them. A simple tier list like this doesn't reflect that at all and misleads new players into getting all exited about units that simply won't work for them. Not just not well but being complete trash in the wrong list or used in the wrong way.
Heirophant + crusher stampede. All weapons 2+ to hit after taking even one wound. Model so big it can potentially park on several objectives at once with oc12..... Also a transport, same capacity as tyrannocyte aside from no carrying monster units. Pop out up to 20 gants to flood objectives or use it as a bunker to protect up to 6 highly precious zoanthropes on turn 1... And if the opponent does kill it, think of a model with 11" square footprint combined with a strat for auto explodes for 2d6 mortals on everything within 6...... On a model that has the speed and bulk to survive long enough to run straight into their lines.....
Great post. And I don't know why Auspex lumped the Norns together, that's a pet peeve of mine, I see so many youtubers do that. I mean it's not brain science, Assimilator is way worse than the Emissary. I'd probably put Gargoyles in tier 1, Swarmlord, Norn Assimilator, ranged Warriors, Hormagaunts and Neurogaunts in tier 3, melee Warrriors tier 2, only for the niche role they can play in Vanguard with a Winged prime. Putting him with Gargoyles seem like a bad idea to me. Arguably OOE and Carnifexes should be a tier lower, as both units are non-starters without eachother. Agreed that tiers like this don't really help a new player. At least outside tier 1, it's all about how you build the army list, which detachment you chose.
@@_SpiritDan_ T-cyst can only carry 12 now. Because it was too strong or something... Models with more then 1 wound cound as 3, so you can only carry 4 Zoas max, which means 3 because unit sizes. The Hierophant is overcosted in general. Giving it +1 to hit is nice but only compensates that it eats up most of your points without doing that much.
@@vaettra1589 Neurogaunts have an utter trash profile but are somewhat useful as cheap bodies. So it's at least something. Many competitive players use them just for cheap screening (and for the Neurotyrant). Hormagaunts on the other hand are expensive and do nothing amd you have no way to buff the dmg outside of Invasion Fleet and no way to buff their usefulness outside of Unending Swarm and Vangaurd Onslaught via Winged Prime. Which all is still far from great. They are another expample of trash becoming situational in the right list. Their main problem is that Gargoyles do basically the same but much better, for 1ppm more. It's really hard to do a proper tier list when you just rate the "strenght" of a unit without context. At the very least you need to give some context to your ranking (like Art of War does) or it's pretty much useless in itself.
@Errtuabyss i agree with you but i have some exceptions: Norn are less durable than maleceptor (if considered in proportion the points cost) and push near same dmg (both will never reach melee) but with sometimes a debuff. Also we don't Need his OC in our tyr games. Hive tyrant i think his main reason for take It Is assault and not only the free stratagem, obviusly Is unplayable in detatchment that aren't Invasion Fleet or stnaptic nexus, but in games where It wasn't my zoanthrophes never shoot to something usfull simple because my opponent has just to move measuring well and they where never in range being in range of other people weapons (mainly referred for vehicles)
When the space marine codex comes out, I would love to see a direct comparison between the two of them. Units that are analog, or have similar stats to see if they are roughly the same in power and cost as well as stratagems and other things.
My theory on the Tyrannofex is that some developer lost their 20+ wound Knight in a single shooting phase thanks to one guy with loaded dice and got super salty about it.
The fact that monster mash works far better basically with invasion fleet, synaptic Nexus, and even assimilation as compared to crusher is hilarious yet soul crushing
I think it also says something about the quality of the “generic” detachment in some of the armies out there, including Tyranids. That makes a rough baseline to have to surpass in order to make one of the more niche detachments worth taking. It’s something that seems a bit problematic here, with Crusher Stampede, but we’re seeing similar issues with the upcoming Marine codex, if the leaks are somewhat accurate (see the 1st company detachment). For these first two codices, you have to beat a solid generic detachment in order to have another detachment get any consideration.
Well, running them in pairs is bad. Running them as singles with screamer killers nice and close together and suddenly auto-explode 1 does wonders for buffing everything within 6".
I think with tyranids you want to rate units in two individual categories: Combat unit Secondary unit Many of the units are very strong as secondary units but the codex has so many of them, that you can easily get too much of them. Like, do you really think if you get 1 biovore, 3 pyrovoers, 3 neuroliktors and 3 rippers that all of them are still worth their spot? And how many other, lower ranked units should be seen as worth less if you already have those dedicated secondary grabbers? Tyranids are complex and this is just one aspect of it. One thing I feel you have forgotten to rate when talking about the droppod (and to a lesser part also all infiltrator types) was that it also saves you deployment space. With many cheap monsters and big swarms the good spots near objectives and out of firing lines of the enemy get congested very fast. Taking 20 gribblies, 6 chunky bugs or 1 monster out of your deployment zone and still have it available for turn1 work after the enemy alpha strike is worth something on its own. On that aspect however I really hate the transport nerf. In 9th you could put maleceptors and exocrines into the pod. The later were especially fun for saving a huge base worth of deployment and dropping down directly into prime firing positions yourself.
Hive Tyrants are 10 wounds now not 12. I still don't understand how anyone is excited for the norn creatures. Other armies pay the same points for the same toughness AND the ability to actually kill things. The emissary is literally a hive tyrant in close combat and the assimilator is NOT big tank killing power. On average it takes him shooting and fighting to smash a medium tank and he wont kill a tough one at all (a land raider for example). Despite costing 100 pts more. Hive tyrants are so overcosted now, people mistake taking them because they are the best option we have for them being good.
Ikr? Not sure why this seems to have slipped by so many people seemingly, they are each just as disappointing as eachother just in different ways. Little more durability but struggle to kill anything somewhat resilient vs can kill stuff but also dies in a hot second, that's the norns imo. Just look what they do for their points compared to Mork/gorkanaughts, nearly the exact same points, but ik which one is bet on.
@@raethebig3473 Yeah don't know why even Auspex lumped the Norns together, that's a pet peeve of mine, I see so many youtubers do that. I mean it's not brain science, Assimilator is way worse than the Emissary, and both are overcosted.
Id still love someone from GW to actually tell us their thought process behind these points costs. They are litterally harming themselves by making models not even worth buying if they are too expensive to put on the table for a good game. It would be really nice one day to field a hierophant in a 2000pt army but then im missing out on so much for very little gain.
So I come from other tabletop games can you just house rule things? I don’t quite understand why everyone adheres so hard to the rules is warhammer not play for fun? Or is it all competitive
@@colecarmichael5724 yes absolutely you can, its just for tournaments mainly that rules are stuck to. As long as the other person agrees, you can do whatever you want.
neurotyrant with its flamer enhancement and leading some tyrant guard is a wonderful menace. a tervigon can be a great model in a synaptic detachment since it can have -1 damage from an enhancement, lead two broods of termagants and since its a synapse creature it broadcasts the benefits of the current imperative and benefits heavily from all three itself. it works well enough with a psychophage to make a very tough block with high oc and decent range and melee to fling up the board for about 600pts.
Im a newer player but i feel like Vanguard Onslaught really pulls a lot of these units up into tier 2 and 3. Melee warriors with a winged prime are great at clearing light and medium infantry, and the winged tyrant CHEWS theough gravis marines and termies without a second thought. Lictors can even t1 rapid for 1cp which is just terrifying
Tyrannocytes are vanguard invader units, so can also pull off the turn 1 rapid ingress with all their cargo. Can also send them back into reserves for deep striking somewhere else on the table for objectives next turn. Even more amusingly, they are able to advance and charge. They arent entirely crap in combat, especially against backfield units (can make a mess of artillery squads), and can be tough enough to tarpit something for a while.
The other day I played my nids against custodes and after two rounds, my three tyrant guard led by a neurotyrant, all with crusher claws, killed trajann. Love their plus one to hit, and giving the tyrant a 5+fnp combo.
The rework in bodyguard/leadership rules definitely makes tyrant guard much more worth it, and theye tougher than before I used to run a horde of carnifex instead of tyrant guard, worked better more of the time, and better value in older editions
You can get around the Tyrannocyte limitations by filling it with lictors and bringing it in turn 1 with rapid ingress if you go second. The lictors or parasite can't be shot at 12in and then will have about a 3-4in charge after they move on your turn. Lictors also allow you to do rapid ingress for free.
So now you have a lump of wet noodles in the same spot, probably not a great spot since a decent opponent wouldn't leave gaps in his deployment zone turn 1. Not great.
The harspex thing not being able to move highights that titans should just demolish terrain when walking though. It totaly happens and looks cool when it happens in media. That and other super big things in general. Baneblade definatly should be able to just smash though any building. It would have a interesting dynamic that super large things dont benifit from terrain and can distroy them.
The thing I think that really shocked me about the psychophage is, if you look at the trailer for the battle, in the little cartoony freeze frame which had TWO of them, they were made out to be a hell of a lot smaller than what we were given, at least that's how they showed them off as.
fwiw the Tyranid Warriors with Melee Weapons might be slightly underrated in your list - when led by the Winged Prime, Sustained Hits, rerolling 1s, and Twin-Linked AP -2 becomes quite deadly. As well, the Winged Prime is a good candidate for the Perfectly Adapted Enhancement in the Invasion Detachment, allowing the Warriors to reroll (e.g.) Charges and Advances, extending their threat range. EDIT: the Perfectly Adapted Enhancement does not apply to the Bearer's Unit :(
Not quite. The Perfectly Adapted enhancement states that it applies to "the bearer" not "the bearer's unit." That would mean that you can't reroll the advances or charges until the warriors are dead, and the prime isn't leading a unit. It does still mean that you can reroll for any tests that exclusively apply to the prime while it's leading (i.e. its own hit rolls).
Errrr no, at least not the enhancement cause that applies to himself, not his unit. Now if you go in vanguard onslaught and attach the winged prime, they get the keyword so they can advance and charge. Now you're talking.
melee warriors have 6" move. that makes them useless for melee. i dont know why tyranid big bugs all move 8" but warriors only move 6" it makes no sense.
Still so frustrating the whole codex points update immediately getting written over by the dataslate, the first points change in the codex felt like it made more sense overall
Hi, quick noob to tryanids question. Hyper Adaption for Invasion Fleet detachment. Swarming Instincts for example. When targeting infantry enemies, does Sustain hits trigger automatically when attacking or on a successful hit roll?
If you only want to buy them now that they're strong and you never did before, then you probably didn't like the model much to begin with, which means you're going to shelve it once it's nerfed (unless you're new to the army and are still building it obviously). Anyways, rule of cool > all.
@@valaquenta220 Don't tell me what I think. I recently got into Nids, and wanted to buy a Haruspex right from the get-go because it's cool. It would be really nice to actually use it when it's also powerful as opposed to being able to buy one just in time for it to get nerfed and having to struggle to get it to perform.
I remember considering buying the maleceptor before and now I regret it because it was a decent unit back in 9th when I first looked at it and now its great.
Still can’t charge when deploying out of drop pods so another reason tyrannocyte should be much cheaper. Anything more than 80pts and it sits on my shelf still
I think Tervigon should go up to T2 considering it has pretty good synergy with Synaptic Nexus. Think about it: you can use the OTM stratagem to get rerolls for your temragants... that also get lethal hits now. And if somehow the enemy gets battleshocked, you have another synapse creature to b potentially in range to use the MW stratagem
I am still new to Tyranids but with the "Leader" Rule, the NGaunts can provide some extra wounds to the NTyrant. Anyone can feel free to correct me if I am wrong : )
What they don't tell you about the Haruspex is... your opponent will blow it off the board with shooting, the lack of invuln makes it a shockingly soft target, and you'll almost never get it into melee :( still my fav. unit though
might be a better idea to consider ranged warriors compared to von ryan's leapers, comparable melee, points cost and durability, better keywords on the leapers, but a ranged attack on warriors + synapse, and again comparing melee warriors they seem less bad, think maybe the comparison is abit skewed since they're older
I feel like people are overlooking the mowloc, mortals within 12 inches of it when it comes in. Put a ruler around that giant base and see how crazy huge that is, could easily get 3-4 units to take mortals
I thought the same at first ... then I realised that deep striking means you've got to be more than 9" away, so it's really a three-inch circular strip, as you have to get all targets between 9" and 12" away. That's still a large area, but with terrain also dictating where you can pop up, it's not as good as it first seems.
@@wuffell912 true true but it’s still like we are thinking, can’t have units closer than 9 but still can extend 25 inches all around u, size of base included odds u don’t get 3 units is almost 0
It's a little worse than that since you have to deepstike 9" away, so instead of a 24+" diameter it's more like a 3" ring 9" from your Mawloc. Still good, I just wished it made every enemy in range take a battleshock test, not just 1/3 of them.
@@Chaunwilkerson guys can anyone clarify does this mean you could rapid ingress one of them and that would allow you to deep strike it within 3 inches right and the mortals would still trigger because it’s deep striking?
@@lukeboss534 The mawloc can't arrive 3" from enemies with or with out rapid ingress, you're thinking of the trygon who can deepstrike 3" away and pairs really well with rapid ingress.
I think biovores are the most broken. I went 100 to 41 using the statics behind enemy lines and deploy homing beacon. Unless I'm playing it wrong, I shoot a couple spore mines into the opponents deployment and get 8 points a turn from the secondaries. You can also achieve this using a Tyrannocyte with goodies inside. I attack the back point. The strategy worked pretty well the first time.
Sounds like you had some crappy opponents. It's not hard for most factions to 9" screen out your own deployment corners, at least for the first 2- 3 turns of a game.
Perhaps the Rippers can complete mission objectives. Not scoring points from camping objective, but putting a model that satisfies the mission objective card?
Why would you say something like that? You pay 75pts to have a harder time (takes up 3x area) doing what the Ripper does for 20pts. Which is exist in a corner.
@vaettra1589 not saying it replaces any other unit, but simply the ability to redeploy every turn gives them incredible utility for rather cheap, I think.
Really wish someone at GW design studio would watch this channel and others like it, to give them some more insight. Particularly for internal codex balance, they only seem to nerf over performers and never bring up the lesser used units. But as you say it can be arbitary and based on other factors like detachment rules. I still disagree with you on Carnifexes, they should be lower end Tier 3 for me, yes the 2 you put with Old One Eye will be OK probably, but any further units, no. Just being flexible is no good on it's own, just look at the stats on the Haruspex and compare for melee, they are the same points.....as for heavy venom cannons now, and the poor old devourers, not looking good at ranged for the points......
While this is anecdotal. I've been running the heirophant in a crusade for a little while and it's been performing very well, though I'll chock that up to getting +1 damage on both guns, one with +1 to hit and the other with an extra attack. Got a full board wipe against another nid list and it killed the entire board by itself.
Hierophant is one of those special units that wipes out unprepared opponents that lack something equally big to to deal with it, but against any other super heavy it folds.
Happy so many of my favourite models are currently solid or really good. Some got done dirty though... And I still do not understand how the Hierophant and Harridan are still in the game but they relegated Dimachaeon to legends... Eh. I grabbed one from Ebay anyway because I love that model, and outside of tournaments I doubt anyone will have an issue if I run it as an Assimilator instead. From what I've heard the base is the same size (though not round...) and height should work too. Still waiting on my preordered stuff though, inlcuding all the tools to start building the models I already have t.t EDIT: Also incredibly surprised about Nids apparently doing well in tournaments. Of the battle reports on TH-cam they won 2 of the 25+ I watched, and some of those were with the codex points, not even the nerfs... and the two times Nids won they won by 1 point, when they lost they usually got bodied by like 20. Strange that the results are THAT different.
GW have done a lot of things over the years to annoy players. Bad decisions, unnecessary nerfs, and/or general lack of support for various factions. But hands down, the most ludicrous thing i've ever seen, far more than anything else they've ever done, is having a major codex release, the very first of a brand new edition after significantly overhauling the game, and still having at least 50% of the faction's model range 'temporarily out of stock online' upon launch weekend........ If this is how the company is going to roll from now on, I can't see them having good prospects of long term growth for the game.
Both variants of Norns are Tier 1 and so are Gargoyles. Only a few units that GW made unplayable (RIP TFex). Tyranids are looking robust with great build variety.
Norn Emissary's are tier 3 at best though. 5+++ is nice, but that's only if they are touching a singular circle on the table with a diameter of 7,5 inches. The moment they walk of that circle they are barely any better than a Maleceptor defense wise. That's of course assuming they aren't shot down or wounded badly enough for FNP to barely matter before they can even get close enough to the objective. Assimilator's are even worse then Emissary's.
@@ryilan7417 Absolutely correct. Norn of either variety are mostly garbage. Tier 3 tops. Verrrry expensive for the biological equivalent of a Knight, but without much ranged firepower. Most well built competitive lists can drop a Knight in one turn. They can do the same against a Norn. If you're army can't one-turn a Knight, it's not a good army.
no theyre not. norns are really bad lmao. a norn emissary struggles to even kill a leman russ its a joke. norn emissary definitely belongs in tier 2 and you can make a compelling case that the assimilator is tier 3.
Probably better off efficiency wise with just running another hive tyrant, can get the same melee profile+twin linked on the good part, costs less, etc if that's what you want from the norn stats while zoans&malecept can easy fill the ranged DMG output equivalent of either norn It seems
@@raethebig3473 well the purpose of the norn is to just sit on an objective and be tough to kill. its just that its way too expensive considering thats all it does. it sucks at killing pretty much everything. thats not worth 300ish points.
Wow i unintentionally collected a decent amount of competitive models. I just collected what i thought was cool. Probably wont help considering how nee i am
i know people are not really pointing it out but if we are going to be honest the Carnifax costs almost 50 points to much for what it dose 4+ to hit its the worst t3 unit or the strongest t4. Tervigon is supposed to be a leader beast for the endless swarm detachment only 1 of the enhancements do anything for it that it will die turn one when you use it in a swarm list to any dedicated anty tank unit on the board is what makes it bad if only it could lead Termagunts as intended this would fix the issue. Tyrant guards have gotten worse whit all the nerfs to their melee profiles they are currently the worst bodyguard unit in the game i dont know why you would place them as T2. also Old One Eye has the worst sweep profile in the game
@@humantwist-offcap9514 thats easy theyre not worth running because theyre overcosted. the reason they were autoinclude before is because you got two free strategems per turn. they got rid of that. that change alone made them not autoinclude anymore. the points increase made them bad.
Every competitive Nid list still runs the Hive Tyrant. Turns out free Rapid Regeneration, free Insatiable Will, free Assault, is still worth the points, it's possible you can cut it now but most people choose not to.
@@thesomnograph7278 Absolutely. The loss of access to more free tactics is inconvenient, but in most detachments there are still good Battle Tactics ones. Also, layering Enhancements like a 5+++/4+++ FNP from Invasion Swarm or a -1 DMG from Synapse Swarm greatly enhances its staying power. The only competitive lists that don't include a Hive Tyrant are Vanguard detachments running Flyrants instead.
@@thesomnograph7278 what i said was the hive tyrant isnt tier 1. and its not. tier 1 is basically your autoinclude stuff. hive tyrants not on that list anymore.
hive crone weak?? all those ranged attacks, combo with fall back and charge again? can hit with FIVE weapons. only 200pnts. 20" m9vement to fly to position of advantage. please elaborate on your low assessment. respectfully.
First time I've seen Auspexs ranking pretty much spot on. OOE being T1 is main one, should be T2. Mawloc/Trygon are swapped tiers depending on detachment. Mawloc better in certain detachments. Barbed Hierodule are decent, should be T2. 1 big thing I think we should note is Nothing really is T1 in Tyranids. We are very weak in general army. This List should swap all models down a tier and nothing is T1 really. Just standardized compared to other armies.
Basically everything in Tier 3 is unplayable right now, simply because they cost WAY to much. Tyranids are not elite, give me more big Monsters Also hive tyrants and carnifexes are also here in tier 3. Smawrmlord is just a pain you have to pay in some detachments
Hive Tyrants are definitely not in tier 3, the Walkrant is still an auto-include in meta lists, the Flyrant is outclassed but is at least decent in Vanguard/Swarm lists The Carnifex is overcosted but giving speed, wounds, and potentially rerolls to OOE is genuinely a Tier 2 niche
@@thesomnograph7278 I really dont know why. he is at least 50 points to expensive for what he does. assault is mostly irrelevant, especially since it is only a aura. the free strat is "okay" but if you really need the CP, why nor just take a Swarmlord and just have the CP globally. he is just a T10 2+ body, his 6 attacks lack one strength to be meaningful. everytime I used him he is JUST disapointing. I dont think it is even close to be worth its points. I'll take 3 sqauds of gargoyles instead and have spare points any day, or almost two t10 models that actually do damage.
Tieranids list
Yes
Tier-A-nids list
Boo
Genius
Slap yourself for me
It really sucks that all the big monsters from the leviathan box are extremely mediocre.
You’ll probably have to wait until next edition like the Necrons with their Reanimators and Cryptothralls 😅They were trash last edition and now are going for big money on eBay
As a house rule I upped the wounds of the screamer killer to 12.
But the Neurotyrant is actually quite sweet.
Agreed on the Screamer-Killer. He's about 40-50 points overcosted. Both the Neurotyrant and the Psychophage are good though. The Neurotyrant has been auto-include in every one of my lists, especially with the synergy of the Neurolictor. At 105 points he's a steal. The Psychophage is a bit pricey and depends on your detachment. He's okay in most detachments but really shines in an Assimilation Swarm. After you've included the mandatory 3 x Haruspex, several Psychophage are the way to go.
I think the Winged Tyranid Prime has value in the Vangaurd Invaders detachment.
@dominikvonlavante6113 good stuff, with gw being unreasonable with rules it's about time people start homebrewing and tweaking like people do with dnd
Kind of cathartic to hear Auspex call out the possibility that the T-fex was heavily nerfed to push the Norn Emissary
id believe that if the norn emissary was actually good. its not good though. so i dont fully buy that theory. the norn emissary is really bad compared to the maleceptor theres no reason to ever buy one.
@@Khobai The Emissary doesn't have to be better than the Maleceptor; it just has to be better than the Tyrannofex. They need it to be competitive with kits that are actually in stock on shelves, which the Maleceptor is not. It's still conspiratorial and would be stupid on GW's part, but the treatment of the points for this faction has been stupid regardless
@@alfred8936 yes but its still not good enough to drop $100 to buy. i gotta think the only people buying it are GW shills really. its not even a good looking model IMO. the model is way too busy looking and the way the heads look are just goofy.
Not sure about t fex being nerfed to sell more new models, but i can definitely see GW pulling some kind of stunt to sell more of the new models.
After all, nearly 50% of nid range has been 'temporarily out of stock online" on GW website for the whole of 10th edition so far.
Seriously, they didnt even restock despite the tyranids being the first official codex release in the new edition, and a huge chunk of the range (especially more popular high selling models) not available online on launch weekend?
Either complete incompetence or GW are up to intentional shenanigans. Regardless, it looks very bad for their image.
@@_SpiritDan_this isn't super accurate anymore, and a few of them had even restocked before the holiday season, some several times. Do you have emails on? I think after they restock you have to reactivate them, which is really annoying. I haven't seen Haruspex, Maleceptor, or Exocrine, granted. But I think at least the exocrine is probably getting a remodel to keep them in line with the bio and pyrovores
I am still monumentally confused about how bad the Tyrannofex got nerfed. Did one of them eat one of the developer's cats or something? Poor thing
Idk man, I still bought one because model is badass.
@@equos5060 oh absolutely. I bought two, in fact. It's a big kit and honestly surprisingly cheap compared to the other MCs in the Tyranid army
Have built one, will get it painted soon. Not sure if the other one will end up as a Tervigon
Right one of my favorite nid models used it twice and it was solid now... idk could almost bring two carnifexes instead
i ran him whit Rupture cannon and my boy held the line vs everything took on knights grand masters and lived its sad to see him sit there waiting to not cost me 1/8th of my army while only being 1/20 of the fire power
They must have stepped on one.
Im still frustrated that the trygon no longer has its tunnelling ability to deepstrike other units, since that always was its unique ability. It plays like a mawloc, not a trygon.
in my experience the mawlocs the better pick. I have both and Mawloc does more consistent damage. Granted I do play against necron infantry alot, the mortal wounds deepstrike is just too good. Having both in a list is orgasmic though, they do soooo much damage
@@websta1144 In my experience the trygon is way better because of the Rapid Ingress, which can deep strike it almost anywhere on the field, which gives you big opportunities to score points, disrupt your opponent or deal loads of damage, but the efficiency isn't really what my problem is. Both the units play like mawlocs are described, but neither play like Trygons are described. If feels like they took the abilities of the mawloc and split them between the two units, then left the trygon description on the drawing board.
I saw someone do that with a full squad of 30 termagants with devourers using a trygon prime
And then used the primes psychic shit to let the termagants Fire again
He nuked a land raider and nearly a venerable Dreadnaught on the turn they arrived...
Really wish the screamer killer was a bit cheaper/better
yeah if it was just like 20 points cheaper itd be tier 2
It doesn’t need much, mostly a price drop and/or a slight wounds increase
Don't increase wounds, give it a decent invul save instead. As it stands, you can drop-pod it in with a Tyrannocyte which is really funny even if it isn't optimal
It's a shame. . . I got 3 and won't even build them as it won't be played this edition
I disagree with surprisingly many, but that is at least partly thru the tier list in itself. A lot of units are only viable in specific combinations and/or lists, which is completely overlooked in the list.
The Tervigon is overall trash, but good in an Unending Swarm detachment since it buffs the unit you are spaming anyways (and is the best receiver for the Naturalised Camouflage enchancement.
The Mawloc is decent as a distraction and blocking unit. The dmg against infantry is high enough that you can't just ignorie it so it can threaten something important. Thing is that you have to take it in a BigBug list or it eats all the heavy weapons and just dies. The role is unappraciated so I get that it is put lower than the Trygon, but mathematically it's actually more cost efficient. Both kill about 4 marines, with a 35pt difference. Sure, the Trygon is better vs bigger models, but the S9 prevents it from being actually good.
Warriors with Melee Weapons are actually not that bad in a Vanguard Onslaught detachment since the Winged Prime gives them advance and charge. They are still overcosted, but if you can give them the +1 to hit and wound bonus they do decent work. Their problem is that this isn't a default option and they are still not stellar in it (since they need a Strat, so either having a tyrant in the list or spending the valuable resource on them). So once again they are either good or trash, depending on the context.
Gargoyles are auto include in every list for me. The mobility is insale for a battleline, they are cheap and they can hide much better than most other fragile units. With indirect fire not being spamed as much anymore they are great in almost every list. You can even block a non-flying army from leaving their deployment zone with their 12+d6+6 movement range, giving you a massive advantage in the game. Taking over the midfield is the main reason why first turn is so strong and they can double down on the effect.
The Lictor is the best backfield holding unit in the army. Only 3" drops can tough him while your whole army is in the midfield. It doesn't matter that they aren't as good as the other two variants, they are still amazing for every list.
Norn Emissarys on objectives are insanely durable which makes them the perfect unit to hold one while the rest of your army deals with the opponent. They not only do something no other unit can do (at least not as well) but also support your army while doing it. 18" shooting isn't amazing but should be enough if you sit on the middle of the board and it's really decent. In addition they are synapse, so you don't need to worry taking any additional synapse untis, which you could see as an additional 65+ pts discount for the army. One of the best units in the faction.
Carnifexes and OOE specifically are only good in combination with each other and in an Invasion Fleet. Everywhere else both their dmg-output and -resistence drops dramatically. Before the Balance Dataslate they where actually kind of a trap against armies like Aeldari, which had a hyper-effective was to kill most if not the whole army in a turn via Devastating Wounds. They are significantly better now, but still not as good as many hype them up to be. Which is the reason they aren't as common in winning competitive lists as a tier 1 unit should be.
Genestealers+Broodlord are pretty bad. Not because of the points but because they barely do enough dmg to ustify the cost of units that do much more, are more dorable and not es specialized as them. Even with good rolls on DevWounds they don't drop a tough target and just bounce of things like terminators while easily dying to things like Overwatch.
Their problems aren't so much the stats as their functionality. Sure, they can scout ahead and get a turn 1 charge in.. but that only works against people that still didn't learn how to screen of units and might very easily die trying to Overwatch. If they had S5 and D2 they would at least had a role vs heavy infantry or something. The way they are right now I don't see any reason to take them.
The Winged Prime was trash before we got all the enchancements only he can get and which are so powerful that you are willingly just paying the ~100 pts for synapse and the effect in the unit. But that isn't true for every detachment. They are still outer trash for halve of the detachments and have only worth as the cheapest synapse creature. Failed profile design that is uphold by extremely good enchancements.
The Parasite of Mortrex does very little useful without Synapse (which it only has access to in a IV detachment). Even the chance of spawning Rippers is worth less since you can take single bases. It's not trash, but it's just not doing much either, so below average.
Swarmlord is way overpriced. He has the same dmg-output as the normal Tyrant, which is already a wet noodle for his cost. The Vect is great, but not worth the premium cost for a decent psionic shooting and underwhelming cc.
Neurolictors are amazing for their points. But mainly because they are too cheap for a T5, 7 wound, 4+ invuln model with Lone Operator. Their main ability is great if you can trigger it, which means you either build your army around stuff that does, or it's a gimmick that can randomly work or not, possibly leaving the model out in the open without the LoneOp protection.
As great as the model is I think it's a trap for many inexperienced players that will try to force it to work and loose stuff because of it.
Maleceptor is a bit overrated for whatever reason. They are great against Termis. But Other than that the S10 is just as good as the S8 of the Exocrines, which means you pay premium for the invuln that is only relevant against weapons that have at least AP-3 (lowers 3+ in cover under the 4+ invuln) and in range of the Exo with it's 36" range. With the shorter range you are more vulnerable to shorter range high dmg weapons and you get neither a 2+ from heavy nor give any boni vs the target once hit. Which makes the Maleceptor overall a worse than an Exocrine.
I have the fleeing that many spam them just because they saw them in top lists, not understanding that the -1 to hit is a hard counter vs GSC, which made the Maleceptor so important for that matchup. That isn't as important anymore with the Norn's being tough enough to tank the demolition charges and with additional options to either prevent them from dropping into a range or overwatching them to death.
The Hive Tyrant is far from the auto pick it was before the free strat change. Most detachments have only 1 or 2 tactical strats and not all are worth taking a 235 model over it. They are still good in the IV because of the FnP strat and in VO for the Battle-shock strat. Other than that I probably wouldn't take them to be honest. The dmg is not that good, they are not that tough and the buffs are not that relevant for most of the army. An overall meh.
Pyrovores are cheap for the profile. But with the 80mm base it's very hard to move them around now. I wouldn't advice anybody to take more than 2-3 single models, simply because you probably won't be able to move them anywhere without a Tyrannocyste. Which is great fun for dropping in 4 models with a giant base and flame the heck out of something.. but in most games you will have just as much problems setting them up as moving them around.
The most controversal take will probably be that I am not all that amazed by the single base Rippers. Sure, they can score a mission after dropping in. Just as you can do with a spore mine from a Biovore, that itself is zoning your backfield, possibly holding an objective while being decently tough vs ligh indirect fire. A ripper is instantly dead as soon as something looks in it's general direction. And even with the small space it occupies you still need your opponent to leave out enough space for it to drop in. So this works only against specific armies or reckless opponents.
It's far from useless, but it is currently a bit overhyped. Especially since the point cost got significantly increased and nobody took them for 45 pts. I just don't think they are as high up the scale as people think atm.
Tyranids are much more about synergy and understanding all moving parts than most other armies. You can rely on Custodes doing what they do just by their stats alone. But Tyranids are either great or trash depending on how you combine and use them. A simple tier list like this doesn't reflect that at all and misleads new players into getting all exited about units that simply won't work for them. Not just not well but being complete trash in the wrong list or used in the wrong way.
Heirophant + crusher stampede.
All weapons 2+ to hit after taking even one wound.
Model so big it can potentially park on several objectives at once with oc12.....
Also a transport, same capacity as tyrannocyte aside from no carrying monster units. Pop out up to 20 gants to flood objectives or use it as a bunker to protect up to 6 highly precious zoanthropes on turn 1...
And if the opponent does kill it, think of a model with 11" square footprint combined with a strat for auto explodes for 2d6 mortals on everything within 6......
On a model that has the speed and bulk to survive long enough to run straight into their lines.....
Great post. And I don't know why Auspex lumped the Norns together, that's a pet peeve of mine, I see so many youtubers do that. I mean it's not brain science, Assimilator is way worse than the Emissary.
I'd probably put Gargoyles in tier 1, Swarmlord, Norn Assimilator, ranged Warriors, Hormagaunts and Neurogaunts in tier 3, melee Warrriors tier 2, only for the niche role they can play in Vanguard with a Winged prime. Putting him with Gargoyles seem like a bad idea to me.
Arguably OOE and Carnifexes should be a tier lower, as both units are non-starters without eachother.
Agreed that tiers like this don't really help a new player. At least outside tier 1, it's all about how you build the army list, which detachment you chose.
@@_SpiritDan_ T-cyst can only carry 12 now. Because it was too strong or something...
Models with more then 1 wound cound as 3, so you can only carry 4 Zoas max, which means 3 because unit sizes.
The Hierophant is overcosted in general. Giving it +1 to hit is nice but only compensates that it eats up most of your points without doing that much.
@@vaettra1589 Neurogaunts have an utter trash profile but are somewhat useful as cheap bodies. So it's at least something. Many competitive players use them just for cheap screening (and for the Neurotyrant).
Hormagaunts on the other hand are expensive and do nothing amd you have no way to buff the dmg outside of Invasion Fleet and no way to buff their usefulness outside of Unending Swarm and Vangaurd Onslaught via Winged Prime. Which all is still far from great.
They are another expample of trash becoming situational in the right list. Their main problem is that Gargoyles do basically the same but much better, for 1ppm more.
It's really hard to do a proper tier list when you just rate the "strenght" of a unit without context. At the very least you need to give some context to your ranking (like Art of War does) or it's pretty much useless in itself.
@Errtuabyss i agree with you but i have some exceptions:
Norn are less durable than maleceptor (if considered in proportion the points cost) and push near same dmg (both will never reach melee) but with sometimes a debuff. Also we don't Need his OC in our tyr games. Hive tyrant i think his main reason for take It Is assault and not only the free stratagem, obviusly Is unplayable in detatchment that aren't Invasion Fleet or stnaptic nexus, but in games where It wasn't my zoanthrophes never shoot to something usfull simple because my opponent has just to move measuring well and they where never in range being in range of other people weapons (mainly referred for vehicles)
When the space marine codex comes out, I would love to see a direct comparison between the two of them. Units that are analog, or have similar stats to see if they are roughly the same in power and cost as well as stratagems and other things.
no doubt it will be advantageous to SM as in the Leviathan box
The tyrannofex…how they massacred my boy 😢
I though of the excact same scene. I love the tyrranofex but now I can’t defend the cost 😂
"I quite like him" - all you need to make a unit tier 1 😊 thanks for the video
😂 I'll be honest I've never not had him make back at least his point value though. 115 points because "power of the hive mind" is NOT optional😅
My theory on the Tyrannofex is that some developer lost their 20+ wound Knight in a single shooting phase thanks to one guy with loaded dice and got super salty about it.
I hate that the Crusher Stampede detachment actually disincentivizes you from running Carnifexes
Yeah i m bummed out about that detachment as well. The big mosters are mostly overpriced. One day though.
The fact that monster mash works far better basically with invasion fleet, synaptic Nexus, and even assimilation as compared to crusher is hilarious yet soul crushing
@@Carebear_Warfare They're paying for their sins of Crusher Stampede last edition. 😥
I think it also says something about the quality of the “generic” detachment in some of the armies out there, including Tyranids. That makes a rough baseline to have to surpass in order to make one of the more niche detachments worth taking. It’s something that seems a bit problematic here, with Crusher Stampede, but we’re seeing similar issues with the upcoming Marine codex, if the leaks are somewhat accurate (see the 1st company detachment). For these first two codices, you have to beat a solid generic detachment in order to have another detachment get any consideration.
Well, running them in pairs is bad. Running them as singles with screamer killers nice and close together and suddenly auto-explode 1 does wonders for buffing everything within 6".
You can charge with a sporocyst. No one expects a charging sporocyst
Can you really? 😂
I think with tyranids you want to rate units in two individual categories:
Combat unit
Secondary unit
Many of the units are very strong as secondary units but the codex has so many of them, that you can easily get too much of them.
Like, do you really think if you get 1 biovore, 3 pyrovoers, 3 neuroliktors and 3 rippers that all of them are still worth their spot?
And how many other, lower ranked units should be seen as worth less if you already have those dedicated secondary grabbers?
Tyranids are complex and this is just one aspect of it.
One thing I feel you have forgotten to rate when talking about the droppod (and to a lesser part also all infiltrator types) was that it also saves you deployment space. With many cheap monsters and big swarms the good spots near objectives and out of firing lines of the enemy get congested very fast. Taking 20 gribblies, 6 chunky bugs or 1 monster out of your deployment zone and still have it available for turn1 work after the enemy alpha strike is worth something on its own.
On that aspect however I really hate the transport nerf. In 9th you could put maleceptors and exocrines into the pod. The later were especially fun for saving a huge base worth of deployment and dropping down directly into prime firing positions yourself.
Hive Tyrants are 10 wounds now not 12.
I still don't understand how anyone is excited for the norn creatures. Other armies pay the same points for the same toughness AND the ability to actually kill things. The emissary is literally a hive tyrant in close combat and the assimilator is NOT big tank killing power. On average it takes him shooting and fighting to smash a medium tank and he wont kill a tough one at all (a land raider for example). Despite costing 100 pts more. Hive tyrants are so overcosted now, people mistake taking them because they are the best option we have for them being good.
Ikr? Not sure why this seems to have slipped by so many people seemingly, they are each just as disappointing as eachother just in different ways. Little more durability but struggle to kill anything somewhat resilient vs can kill stuff but also dies in a hot second, that's the norns imo. Just look what they do for their points compared to Mork/gorkanaughts, nearly the exact same points, but ik which one is bet on.
@@raethebig3473 Yeah don't know why even Auspex lumped the Norns together, that's a pet peeve of mine, I see so many youtubers do that. I mean it's not brain science, Assimilator is way worse than the Emissary, and both are overcosted.
Id still love someone from GW to actually tell us their thought process behind these points costs. They are litterally harming themselves by making models not even worth buying if they are too expensive to put on the table for a good game. It would be really nice one day to field a hierophant in a 2000pt army but then im missing out on so much for very little gain.
So I come from other tabletop games can you just house rule things? I don’t quite understand why everyone adheres so hard to the rules is warhammer not play for fun? Or is it all competitive
@@colecarmichael5724 yes absolutely you can, its just for tournaments mainly that rules are stuck to. As long as the other person agrees, you can do whatever you want.
@@RobDP1981 thanks Rob you da best
You made a typo on the Trygon, it has D3 attacks, not D2 like it had in 9th. This is a pretty big glow up now that it one shots terminators.
neurotyrant with its flamer enhancement and leading some tyrant guard is a wonderful menace.
a tervigon can be a great model in a synaptic detachment since it can have -1 damage from an enhancement, lead two broods of termagants and since its a synapse creature it broadcasts the benefits of the current imperative and benefits heavily from all three itself. it works well enough with a psychophage to make a very tough block with high oc and decent range and melee to fling up the board for about 600pts.
Im a newer player but i feel like Vanguard Onslaught really pulls a lot of these units up into tier 2 and 3. Melee warriors with a winged prime are great at clearing light and medium infantry, and the winged tyrant CHEWS theough gravis marines and termies without a second thought. Lictors can even t1 rapid for 1cp which is just terrifying
Tyrannocytes are vanguard invader units, so can also pull off the turn 1 rapid ingress with all their cargo.
Can also send them back into reserves for deep striking somewhere else on the table for objectives next turn.
Even more amusingly, they are able to advance and charge. They arent entirely crap in combat, especially against backfield units (can make a mess of artillery squads), and can be tough enough to tarpit something for a while.
Lictors have lost Deepstrike, so you'll only be able to hug table edges after Rapid Ingress.
The other day I played my nids against custodes and after two rounds, my three tyrant guard led by a neurotyrant, all with crusher claws, killed trajann. Love their plus one to hit, and giving the tyrant a 5+fnp combo.
One correction: The scything talons that Trygons have are Damage 3, not Damage 2
He also called Raveners "Ravagers" but that's slightly less consequential as everything else on screen was still correct afaik
Hadnt realised until the weekend that the Tyrant Guard Bone Sword and Lash Whip has lost twin linked 😢
It was given to the Crushing claws instead, for reasons.
@@vaettra1589 seems odd when the hive tyrant with the same weapon has it
I do like dropping 6 pyrovores on the enemy in a tyrannocyte. Not the best strategy, but it is fun.
The rework in bodyguard/leadership rules definitely makes tyrant guard much more worth it, and theye tougher than before
I used to run a horde of carnifex instead of tyrant guard, worked better more of the time, and better value in older editions
Even at their lowest tier, it's still better then being a Space Marine
Spoken like a true vessel of the Hive Mind
Someone is salty that they got rowbuggied
Whatever you say, heretic. Which do you prefer, the volkite charger or the heavy flamer? I'm asking for.... reasons.
You forgot to add "chaos" before space marine!!
ultra win...... space mariens must DIE!!!
You can get around the Tyrannocyte limitations by filling it with lictors and bringing it in turn 1 with rapid ingress if you go second. The lictors or parasite can't be shot at 12in and then will have about a 3-4in charge after they move on your turn. Lictors also allow you to do rapid ingress for free.
So now you have a lump of wet noodles in the same spot, probably not a great spot since a decent opponent wouldn't leave gaps in his deployment zone turn 1. Not great.
The harspex thing not being able to move highights that titans should just demolish terrain when walking though. It totaly happens and looks cool when it happens in media.
That and other super big things in general. Baneblade definatly should be able to just smash though any building.
It would have a interesting dynamic that super large things dont benifit from terrain and can distroy them.
I mean how would you do that though? You ain't smashing my terrain I worked hard on. Just remove it from play?
I’m having the most painful #2 of my life. Watching Auspex. Life is strange 😢🎉
The thing I think that really shocked me about the psychophage is, if you look at the trailer for the battle, in the little cartoony freeze frame which had TWO of them, they were made out to be a hell of a lot smaller than what we were given, at least that's how they showed them off as.
fwiw the Tyranid Warriors with Melee Weapons might be slightly underrated in your list - when led by the Winged Prime, Sustained Hits, rerolling 1s, and Twin-Linked AP -2 becomes quite deadly. As well, the Winged Prime is a good candidate for the Perfectly Adapted Enhancement in the Invasion Detachment, allowing the Warriors to reroll (e.g.) Charges and Advances, extending their threat range.
EDIT: the Perfectly Adapted Enhancement does not apply to the Bearer's Unit :(
Writing this down, thanks buddy ❤
*gets gunned down before they can charge because they aren't resilient enough*
Not quite. The Perfectly Adapted enhancement states that it applies to "the bearer" not "the bearer's unit." That would mean that you can't reroll the advances or charges until the warriors are dead, and the prime isn't leading a unit. It does still mean that you can reroll for any tests that exclusively apply to the prime while it's leading (i.e. its own hit rolls).
Errrr no, at least not the enhancement cause that applies to himself, not his unit. Now if you go in vanguard onslaught and attach the winged prime, they get the keyword so they can advance and charge. Now you're talking.
melee warriors have 6" move. that makes them useless for melee. i dont know why tyranid big bugs all move 8" but warriors only move 6" it makes no sense.
Still so frustrating the whole codex points update immediately getting written over by the dataslate, the first points change in the codex felt like it made more sense overall
Hi, quick noob to tryanids question.
Hyper Adaption for Invasion Fleet detachment. Swarming Instincts for example. When targeting infantry enemies, does Sustain hits trigger automatically when attacking or on a successful hit roll?
Is it me or is the Norn Emissary model in the action shot on p80 of the codex freaking huge?
I really wish I could buy a Haruspex and a Maleceptor while they're still strong, but they've been out of stock for so long.
If you only want to buy them now that they're strong and you never did before, then you probably didn't like the model much to begin with, which means you're going to shelve it once it's nerfed (unless you're new to the army and are still building it obviously). Anyways, rule of cool > all.
@@valaquenta220 Don't tell me what I think. I recently got into Nids, and wanted to buy a Haruspex right from the get-go because it's cool. It would be really nice to actually use it when it's also powerful as opposed to being able to buy one just in time for it to get nerfed and having to struggle to get it to perform.
Keep watching the site, they occasionally come in stock, I finally secured a 2nd for my assimilation list
I remember considering buying the maleceptor before and now I regret it because it was a decent unit back in 9th when I first looked at it and now its great.
GW: whats a maleceptor? buy this norn emissary instead!
Still can’t charge when deploying out of drop pods so another reason tyrannocyte should be much cheaper. Anything more than 80pts and it sits on my shelf still
A space Marine drop pod is 70pts, has no melee profile, has worse ranged, lower toughness and can’t move. I think a Tyrannocyte is reasonable
I think Tervigon should go up to T2 considering it has pretty good synergy with Synaptic Nexus. Think about it: you can use the OTM stratagem to get rerolls for your temragants... that also get lethal hits now. And if somehow the enemy gets battleshocked, you have another synapse creature to b potentially in range to use the MW stratagem
I think warriors and the winged prime when combined elevate them to upper tier 2, but other than that I think this list is perfect.
nah melee warriors are way too overcosted.
Deathleaper also has +1 SP (Style Points) for organic cape. Convert one human unit into a genestealer
Cool and useful as always. Thank you.
I’m curious to know your opinion on the neurogaunts and their viability as bodyguards for the Neurotyrant??
I am still new to Tyranids but with the "Leader" Rule, the NGaunts can provide some extra wounds to the NTyrant. Anyone can feel free to correct me if I am wrong : )
No suprise that all the good monsters are the £60 ones...
"Solidly performing" lol sure we are, Auspex, sure we are.
What they don't tell you about the Haruspex is...
your opponent will blow it off the board with shooting, the lack of invuln makes it a shockingly soft target, and you'll almost never get it into melee :(
still my fav. unit though
The move for it is always to bring it down from rapid ingress and hide away from shooting behind terrains. Than moving / charging.
Really informative !
i have unopened box of biovore/pyrovore, and Hive Tyrant/Winged Hive Tyrant. What wouldyou say is the better way to build these?
Thanks for your work.
Rippers Tier 1
How am I supposed to reprogram my brain to comprehend this.
might be a better idea to consider ranged warriors compared to von ryan's leapers, comparable melee, points cost and durability, better keywords on the leapers, but a ranged attack on warriors + synapse, and again comparing melee warriors they seem less bad, think maybe the comparison is abit skewed since they're older
I feel like people are overlooking the mowloc, mortals within 12 inches of it when it comes in. Put a ruler around that giant base and see how crazy huge that is, could easily get 3-4 units to take mortals
I thought the same at first ... then I realised that deep striking means you've got to be more than 9" away, so it's really a three-inch circular strip, as you have to get all targets between 9" and 12" away. That's still a large area, but with terrain also dictating where you can pop up, it's not as good as it first seems.
@@wuffell912 true true but it’s still like we are thinking, can’t have units closer than 9 but still can extend 25 inches all around u, size of base included odds u don’t get 3 units is almost 0
It's a little worse than that since you have to deepstike 9" away, so instead of a 24+" diameter it's more like a 3" ring 9" from your Mawloc. Still good, I just wished it made every enemy in range take a battleshock test, not just 1/3 of them.
@@Chaunwilkerson guys can anyone clarify does this mean you could rapid ingress one of them and that would allow you to deep strike it within 3 inches right and the mortals would still trigger because it’s deep striking?
@@lukeboss534 The mawloc can't arrive 3" from enemies with or with out rapid ingress, you're thinking of the trygon who can deepstrike 3" away and pairs really well with rapid ingress.
a good but expensive combo is venomthropes, termagants, exocrine, tervigon, zoanthropes.
I think biovores are the most broken. I went 100 to 41 using the statics behind enemy lines and deploy homing beacon. Unless I'm playing it wrong, I shoot a couple spore mines into the opponents deployment and get 8 points a turn from the secondaries. You can also achieve this using a Tyrannocyte with goodies inside. I attack the back point. The strategy worked pretty well the first time.
Nowadays you can only spawn mines with a single Biovore unit. Close to no point in ever taking more than a sinlge Biovore.
Sounds like you had some crappy opponents. It's not hard for most factions to 9" screen out your own deployment corners, at least for the first 2- 3 turns of a game.
How can ripper swarms take objectives, don't they have an OC of 0? (new player here)
Perhaps the Rippers can complete mission objectives. Not scoring points from camping objective, but putting a model that satisfies the mission objective card?
Great video tho 33:30 hive tyrant has only 10w even more sad 😢
Bugs bugs bugs
I still think people are sleeping on raveners. They are as cheap as gargoyles and provide the utility of a ripper every turn.
Why would you say something like that? You pay 75pts to have a harder time (takes up 3x area) doing what the Ripper does for 20pts. Which is exist in a corner.
@vaettra1589 not saying it replaces any other unit, but simply the ability to redeploy every turn gives them incredible utility for rather cheap, I think.
Why is it that all of the Tyranids GW Direct Order Only kits are either in Teir 2 or 1!!!??
Really wish someone at GW design studio would watch this channel and others like it, to give them some more insight. Particularly for internal codex balance, they only seem to nerf over performers and never bring up the lesser used units. But as you say it can be arbitary and based on other factors like detachment rules. I still disagree with you on Carnifexes, they should be lower end Tier 3 for me, yes the 2 you put with Old One Eye will be OK probably, but any further units, no. Just being flexible is no good on it's own, just look at the stats on the Haruspex and compare for melee, they are the same points.....as for heavy venom cannons now, and the poor old devourers, not looking good at ranged for the points......
While this is anecdotal. I've been running the heirophant in a crusade for a little while and it's been performing very well, though I'll chock that up to getting +1 damage on both guns, one with +1 to hit and the other with an extra attack. Got a full board wipe against another nid list and it killed the entire board by itself.
Hierophant is one of those special units that wipes out unprepared opponents that lack something equally big to to deal with it, but against any other super heavy it folds.
Happy so many of my favourite models are currently solid or really good. Some got done dirty though... And I still do not understand how the Hierophant and Harridan are still in the game but they relegated Dimachaeon to legends... Eh. I grabbed one from Ebay anyway because I love that model, and outside of tournaments I doubt anyone will have an issue if I run it as an Assimilator instead. From what I've heard the base is the same size (though not round...) and height should work too. Still waiting on my preordered stuff though, inlcuding all the tools to start building the models I already have t.t EDIT: Also incredibly surprised about Nids apparently doing well in tournaments. Of the battle reports on TH-cam they won 2 of the 25+ I watched, and some of those were with the codex points, not even the nerfs... and the two times Nids won they won by 1 point, when they lost they usually got bodied by like 20. Strange that the results are THAT different.
Tyranids cannot charge out of the Tyrannocyte, it counts as disembarking from a vehicle. If they give it assault ramp, it might actually be worth it.
GW have done a lot of things over the years to annoy players. Bad decisions, unnecessary nerfs, and/or general lack of support for various factions.
But hands down, the most ludicrous thing i've ever seen, far more than anything else they've ever done, is having a major codex release, the very first of a brand new edition after significantly overhauling the game, and still having at least 50% of the faction's model range 'temporarily out of stock online' upon launch weekend........
If this is how the company is going to roll from now on, I can't see them having good prospects of long term growth for the game.
Munitorium field manual v1.6 as of Jan 2024. Tyrannofex is 190pts
can the carnifexes finally able to eat tanks again?
Both variants of Norns are Tier 1 and so are Gargoyles. Only a few units that GW made unplayable (RIP TFex). Tyranids are looking robust with great build variety.
Norn Emissary's are tier 3 at best though. 5+++ is nice, but that's only if they are touching a singular circle on the table with a diameter of 7,5 inches. The moment they walk of that circle they are barely any better than a Maleceptor defense wise. That's of course assuming they aren't shot down or wounded badly enough for FNP to barely matter before they can even get close enough to the objective.
Assimilator's are even worse then Emissary's.
@@ryilan7417 Absolutely correct. Norn of either variety are mostly garbage. Tier 3 tops. Verrrry expensive for the biological equivalent of a Knight, but without much ranged firepower. Most well built competitive lists can drop a Knight in one turn. They can do the same against a Norn. If you're army can't one-turn a Knight, it's not a good army.
no theyre not. norns are really bad lmao. a norn emissary struggles to even kill a leman russ its a joke. norn emissary definitely belongs in tier 2 and you can make a compelling case that the assimilator is tier 3.
Probably better off efficiency wise with just running another hive tyrant, can get the same melee profile+twin linked on the good part, costs less, etc if that's what you want from the norn stats while zoans&malecept can easy fill the ranged DMG output equivalent of either norn It seems
@@raethebig3473 well the purpose of the norn is to just sit on an objective and be tough to kill. its just that its way too expensive considering thats all it does. it sucks at killing pretty much everything. thats not worth 300ish points.
Thank you
WHY would GW give us beautiful new models (Psychophage, Screamer Killer) and make them TOTALLY USELESS! 🤦♂️🤦♂️
Wow i unintentionally collected a decent amount of competitive models. I just collected what i thought was cool. Probably wont help considering how nee i am
Love me nids. Sad about the tiranofex. Love them.
i know people are not really pointing it out but if we are going to be honest the Carnifax costs almost 50 points to much for what it dose 4+ to hit its the worst t3 unit or the strongest t4.
Tervigon is supposed to be a leader beast for the endless swarm detachment only 1 of the enhancements do anything for it that it will die turn one when you use it in a swarm list to any dedicated anty tank unit on the board is what makes it bad if only it could lead Termagunts as intended this would fix the issue.
Tyrant guards have gotten worse whit all the nerfs to their melee profiles they are currently the worst bodyguard unit in the game i dont know why you would place them as T2.
also Old One Eye has the worst sweep profile in the game
they should hit on 3s nobody understands that
dunno if hive tyrants are tier 1 theyre so overcosted now
I think no longer being an autoinclude doesn’t make them overcosted. Now you just have to weigh if they’re worth running or not
@@humantwist-offcap9514 thats easy theyre not worth running because theyre overcosted.
the reason they were autoinclude before is because you got two free strategems per turn. they got rid of that. that change alone made them not autoinclude anymore.
the points increase made them bad.
Every competitive Nid list still runs the Hive Tyrant. Turns out free Rapid Regeneration, free Insatiable Will, free Assault, is still worth the points, it's possible you can cut it now but most people choose not to.
@@thesomnograph7278 Absolutely. The loss of access to more free tactics is inconvenient, but in most detachments there are still good Battle Tactics ones. Also, layering Enhancements like a 5+++/4+++ FNP from Invasion Swarm or a -1 DMG from Synapse Swarm greatly enhances its staying power.
The only competitive lists that don't include a Hive Tyrant are Vanguard detachments running Flyrants instead.
@@thesomnograph7278 what i said was the hive tyrant isnt tier 1. and its not. tier 1 is basically your autoinclude stuff. hive tyrants not on that list anymore.
The norn seem overpriced. It's not gonna stop me from taking them
12:14 turned this off as soon as I saw Gargoyles in Tier 2.
Hahaha! Gargoyles are maybe the best unit in the codex with a good pilot !!!
Just run all 7 possible lictors. It'll be hilarious.
Tervigon is a character how can he be shot directly
I’m realizing that this list means nothing to me since I don’t know what they do 😭
again, no neurothrope. Did GW just erase it from existence?
Trygon has 12 D3 attacks my dear 🤪
I had 3 tyranofexs and tabled everybody…now i dont lol makes sense..
Day 1 asking for a GSC tier list
Half of tier 3 just sad to see them there
Glad I watched this before building my Tyrannofex kit, I'll build it into a Tervigon instead
i mean exocrines are great IF you can get them
hive crone weak?? all those ranged attacks, combo with fall back and charge again? can hit with FIVE weapons. only 200pnts. 20" m9vement to fly to position of advantage. please elaborate on your low assessment. respectfully.
First time I've seen Auspexs ranking pretty much spot on. OOE being T1 is main one, should be T2. Mawloc/Trygon are swapped tiers depending on detachment. Mawloc better in certain detachments. Barbed Hierodule are decent, should be T2.
1 big thing I think we should note is Nothing really is T1 in Tyranids. We are very weak in general army. This List should swap all models down a tier and nothing is T1 really. Just standardized compared to other armies.
Basically everything in Tier 3 is unplayable right now, simply because they cost WAY to much.
Tyranids are not elite, give me more big Monsters
Also hive tyrants and carnifexes are also here in tier 3.
Smawrmlord is just a pain you have to pay in some detachments
Hive Tyrants are definitely not in tier 3, the Walkrant is still an auto-include in meta lists, the Flyrant is outclassed but is at least decent in Vanguard/Swarm lists
The Carnifex is overcosted but giving speed, wounds, and potentially rerolls to OOE is genuinely a Tier 2 niche
@@thesomnograph7278 I really dont know why. he is at least 50 points to expensive for what he does. assault is mostly irrelevant, especially since it is only a aura. the free strat is "okay" but if you really need the CP, why nor just take a Swarmlord and just have the CP globally.
he is just a T10 2+ body, his 6 attacks lack one strength to be meaningful.
everytime I used him he is JUST disapointing.
I dont think it is even close to be worth its points. I'll take 3 sqauds of gargoyles instead and have spare points any day, or almost two t10 models that actually do damage.
Harpy being bad, as usual
Tier list? More like Tyr list.
Add a comment...