Hey for all those who are interested have a new update on of the Off speeding Frame Rate issue -------------->>>>>>> th-cam.com/video/SKJVrI1OV8g/w-d-xo.html
I just wanted to do a follow-up regarding the off speed drop frames. I recently bought an URSA 12K and I've been doing extensive tests using different types of media cards. What I have found is some CFast cards are faster/slower than others. The fastest setup is an NVME SSD drive in a USB-C enclosure, then use a Thunderbolt 3 or 4 or USB-4 cable to connect to the URSA 12K. The cards I have from fastest to slowest are: 1) NVME SSD (TLC NAND, constant write speed of 1 gigabyte per second) to Thunderbolt 4 cable = Can record up to 8:1 and Q3 at up to 8K 120fps and up to 12:1 in 12K 60fps. 2) Angelbird 1TB CFast - Can only handle 18:1 in all resolutions and highspeed frame rates. 3) Sandisk 256GB CFast - Can only handle 18:1 at below 60fps in all resolutions.
For the drop frame issue at high speed filming, (1) you can set up the camera so that it stops recording whenever theres a drop frame, (2) make sure the cfast card your using is fast enough for high speed shooting.
Hey thanks for the info. Funny thing is I believe that dropped frames was enabled but then also I was filming with a 1 TB Cfast card from Angel bird. That’s why I’m so confused 😅🧐
Dropped frames during high fps recording? Did you use two CFast cards? You know, you have to use two, because the Ursa 12K will need both, recording even frames on one and odd frames on the other one...
3:49 - At certain frame rates and resolutions, the URSA 12K will record all the even frames and odd frames onto separate CFAST cards. You then ingest the footage into Resolve and it will automatically combine both even and odd frames into the final image. If you only used one CFAST card (I've never tried only using one card), then it will most likely record only half the frames (even or odd) onto the one card. Blackmagic did an interview with CineD on youtube and they mentioned it. I think it was posted in October 2020.
@@raredreamfootageBeware of misunderstandings: if you only have one card in the camera and record at a high frame rate, then the camera will not automatically only takes every second picture - This function is intended for dual card operation.
Regarding Con 1, which may not be a con due to your failure to use the HFR mode right, let me ask 3 questions. 1) What Recording Media were you using? It's recommended that you use fast write speed media in either CFast or SSD form. 2) Did you check the "Recommended Media" List from Blackmagic beforehand? 3) What Recording Settings did you have enabled in terms of Resolution and Compression? If you were trying to do 120 FPS at 8K 5:1 then of course you'd have gotten dropped frames. Dropping to 12:1 is probably what you would need. For me the Con here should be no CFExpress Media because CFExpress is far better than CFast in Write Speeds and now overall capacity. I asked why no CFExpress when the camera was introduced in 2020, and it remains my main request on the BMD Forums for the next model. Going into Con 2 it does sound like you were not fully prepared for this as you say you need to use the right gear with the camera. This is a no brainer for any camera, an I feel you'd have the same Con for an Arri Alexa Mini. Ultimately this comes down to do your research and make sure you're prepared ahead of time. So in Con 2 I'd say lack of professional ports on the main body. You need the Wooden Camera D-Box to add some of those ports. This main has to do with my hope that they add more Lemo Ports to the camera, including a front Lemo for lens motors that will power the lens motors so you have less cables running all around the camera. I'd also like a second SDI Output on the back so you have 2 SDI Outputs back there. Replace the Timecode SDI with a 5-Pin Lemo to achieve this. Con 3 I agree with because I still have clients who request ProRes for the raw footage. This is especially true when I'm handing off footage and not doing post myself. Thus why I still shoot with the URSA Mini Pro G2 as my main camera and am waiting for the next generation of UMP. The 12K sensor was a great improvement, but the body needed more updates as well. So I was fine with waiting. Again, I've shot B-Cam to the Arri Alexa Mini shooting ProRes and both matched really well. But the client needed ProRes from my camera.
Ah man, I appreciate the knowledge thanks 🔥. This is a great camera, to answer your questions. I currently work with black magic cameras on the regular more in a corporate setting, so using the HFR option was new to me I personally shoot on the 1 TB angel bird CFast cards and I was filming at 8k 120 but at 8.1 compressions I believe. It plays back In the camera just fine just when I import it, drop Frames appear ❌. For the second con lol yeah I dropped the ball a bit on that one I just wanted to get my hands on the camera and honestly make something cool but I should’ve been more prepared for what I needed to shoot thank God this was more of a passion project in a professional setting. And lastly, I agree with you when it comes to the prores and all the added ports and features it’ll be great. Hopefully Black magic comes out with a new format of cameras. We can only way to NAB
Man much appreciated it. Thank yes this camera is a beast but it dose have it’s Quirks always do your research. Btw this may not mean much But bro your work is Fire 🔥 looks great you don’t need a new camera in my opinion 😅 just keep shooting 💪🏾
Yeah man is a great camera what I would recommend first though is to just get into the blackmagic eco system and pick up a pocket 4k or 6k pro the images are just as good but way more cost effective
@@Director_Z for sure, I've actually shot with the pocket 4k for a documentary series I'm working on. I was just thinking about that all-in-one setup for when I shoot corporate projects as well. Thank you for the tips. looking forward to more of your videos. just found your channel yesterday.
Really enjoyed your video bro as I’m looking to upgrade to the 12k OLPF version I have one question since this video has black magic done anything to fix these issues
I appreciate it thanks for the comment, yes it actually was a issue on my end when you push the camera to do extreme slow motion recording it’s best to have two CARDS in the camera it will write to both cards what was happening is it was writing half the frames to one card and because I didn’t have another card in the other card slot the other frames didn’t get captured
I can see so many ways that you went wrong with your rental experience, some rental companies just rent you what you ordered assuming you know what you are doing, and there are other rental companies that will take the time to get you what you need which might be miles away from what you walked in to rent, from the right media to the right lenses,, to the right monitor, yes I know the camera has a built in monitor but from listening to your problems with deliverables would have been solved with renting you the 7 inch video assist monitor that records several flavors of prores to SD cards or ssd drives, assuming you knew the 12k is raw only. do not be fooled because you have been told of the easy to use menu. finally, pros and cons brother, really, how can you make that determination from such a short time with the camera.
Thank you , yes I would agree lol it’s best to really get what you need when filming. We as filmmakers get so caught up with what looks Good instead of what we need
The most important points on the topic of drop frames have already been said (activate „stop if drop frame“ and record on 2 cfast cards). But even then, depending on the resolution and compression, the bandwidth is often not enough. In this case, the last option would be a compatible SSD connected via USB C. What resolution and compression did you record?
@@Director_Z Then the mystery is solved, because 8K 5:1 120 fps is definitely too much for a CFast 2.0 card… even with 2 cards in dual operation, this could be difficult. There are even combinations of resolutions, compressions and frame rates that the camera cannot record at all, because no storage medium and no interface is fast enough and yet you can select the option.
@@Director_Z Yes and maybe you would also have benefited from recording in a different resolution and compression. If you don’t need a higher resolution for a special reason, the difference between 8K and 4K is comparatively small - especially if you publish the final product on TH-cam. I personally even prefer 4K, as it looks natural to me. There are also even more balanced possibilities in the area of compression. I made a Video with the different resolutions and compressions: th-cam.com/video/ElWMZ4ehyg4/w-d-xo.html
Mainly because ProRes, red raw, Sonys codecs and so on have been in the industry and trusted for a long time. BM is good, but it’s not at the quality level just yet to trust a million dollar project with. Braw is still new and young, it has to prove its weight. Even the pocket 4K and 6K cameras have some issues every now and then. BM needs to focus more on quality control.
great question, honestly im not sure i would say its because like @earnieboy54 said it could be a trust issue and right now Blackmagic is new and yes they may need to focus on quality control but i belive Balckmagic is stong in the game and once they hit they hit hard and soon they are going to be ahead in the industry i love the image that come out of their cameras
Hey for all those who are interested have a new update on of the Off speeding Frame Rate issue -------------->>>>>>> th-cam.com/video/SKJVrI1OV8g/w-d-xo.html
I just wanted to do a follow-up regarding the off speed drop frames. I recently bought an URSA 12K and I've been doing extensive tests using different types of media cards. What I have found is some CFast cards are faster/slower than others. The fastest setup is an NVME SSD drive in a USB-C enclosure, then use a Thunderbolt 3 or 4 or USB-4 cable to connect to the URSA 12K.
The cards I have from fastest to slowest are:
1) NVME SSD (TLC NAND, constant write speed of 1 gigabyte per second) to Thunderbolt 4 cable = Can record up to 8:1 and Q3 at up to 8K 120fps and up to 12:1 in 12K 60fps.
2) Angelbird 1TB CFast - Can only handle 18:1 in all resolutions and highspeed frame rates.
3) Sandisk 256GB CFast - Can only handle 18:1 at below 60fps in all resolutions.
wow thanks for this i actually just did an update on this and talked about it in my new video
th-cam.com/video/SKJVrI1OV8g/w-d-xo.html
For the drop frame issue at high speed filming, (1) you can set up the camera so that it stops recording whenever theres a drop frame, (2) make sure the cfast card your using is fast enough for high speed shooting.
Hey thanks for the info. Funny thing is
I believe that dropped frames was enabled but then also I was filming with a 1 TB Cfast card from Angel bird. That’s why I’m so confused 😅🧐
It's always good to put your settings at constant quality instead of constant bitrate
@@heznadastudios What does that do?
@@Mindofadirector it’s less mbps that bitrate
@@heznadastudios thanks man!
The cfast card wasnt fast enought
Yeah I spoke to a black magic design representative and they let me know the codec that I was recording at the sea. Fastkart couldn’t handle it.
You can set the camera to write your files on 2 CFast Cards in DUAL RECORD MODE so you never will have drop frames.
I’m definitely going to try this
Dropped frames during high fps recording? Did you use two CFast cards? You know, you have to use two, because the Ursa 12K will need both, recording even frames on one and odd frames on the other one...
Man I didn’t wow I just realized that I only had 1 cfast card in man thanks for this information
ProRes isn’t compatible with the new BMD sensor in this camera. This sensor was built for BRAW.
Yeah, the sensor built from the ground up For Raw shooting
Would still get this camera or the S1h with everything you know noe
honestly yes i actually just sold me S1h
3:49 - At certain frame rates and resolutions, the URSA 12K will record all the even frames and odd frames onto separate CFAST cards. You then ingest the footage into Resolve and it will automatically combine both even and odd frames into the final image.
If you only used one CFAST card (I've never tried only using one card), then it will most likely record only half the frames (even or odd) onto the one card.
Blackmagic did an interview with CineD on youtube and they mentioned it. I think it was posted in October 2020.
wow thank you for this info i didn't know this at all unfortunately i only had one card in thanks for this now i know for sure.
@@Director_Z You can watch it here at 11:54, the Blackmagic representative talks about this feature: th-cam.com/video/FfOtoxmkrHU/w-d-xo.html
@@raredreamfootageBeware of misunderstandings: if you only have one card in the camera and record at a high frame rate, then the camera will not automatically only takes every second picture - This function is intended for dual card operation.
Regarding Con 1, which may not be a con due to your failure to use the HFR mode right, let me ask 3 questions.
1) What Recording Media were you using?
It's recommended that you use fast write speed media in either CFast or SSD form.
2) Did you check the "Recommended Media" List from Blackmagic beforehand?
3) What Recording Settings did you have enabled in terms of Resolution and Compression?
If you were trying to do 120 FPS at 8K 5:1 then of course you'd have gotten dropped frames. Dropping to 12:1 is probably what you would need.
For me the Con here should be no CFExpress Media because CFExpress is far better than CFast in Write Speeds and now overall capacity. I asked why no CFExpress when the camera was introduced in 2020, and it remains my main request on the BMD Forums for the next model.
Going into Con 2 it does sound like you were not fully prepared for this as you say you need to use the right gear with the camera. This is a no brainer for any camera, an I feel you'd have the same Con for an Arri Alexa Mini. Ultimately this comes down to do your research and make sure you're prepared ahead of time.
So in Con 2 I'd say lack of professional ports on the main body. You need the Wooden Camera D-Box to add some of those ports. This main has to do with my hope that they add more Lemo Ports to the camera, including a front Lemo for lens motors that will power the lens motors so you have less cables running all around the camera. I'd also like a second SDI Output on the back so you have 2 SDI Outputs back there. Replace the Timecode SDI with a 5-Pin Lemo to achieve this.
Con 3 I agree with because I still have clients who request ProRes for the raw footage. This is especially true when I'm handing off footage and not doing post myself. Thus why I still shoot with the URSA Mini Pro G2 as my main camera and am waiting for the next generation of UMP. The 12K sensor was a great improvement, but the body needed more updates as well. So I was fine with waiting. Again, I've shot B-Cam to the Arri Alexa Mini shooting ProRes and both matched really well. But the client needed ProRes from my camera.
Ah man, I appreciate the knowledge thanks 🔥. This is a great camera, to answer your questions. I currently work with black magic cameras on the regular more in a corporate setting, so using the HFR option was new to me I personally shoot on the 1 TB angel bird CFast cards and I was filming at 8k 120 but at 8.1 compressions I believe. It plays back In the camera just fine just when I import it, drop Frames appear ❌.
For the second con lol yeah I dropped the ball a bit on that one I just wanted to get my hands on the camera and honestly make something cool but I should’ve been more prepared for what I needed to shoot thank God this was more of a passion project in a professional setting.
And lastly, I agree with you when it comes to the prores and all the added ports and features it’ll be great. Hopefully Black magic comes out with a new format of cameras. We can only way to NAB
Thanks for sharing! Really enjoyed this. Keep the videos coming!
Thank you will do
I appreciate you for this boss. Im actually weighing my options for and against buying the 12k next month - this helped a ton. Def leaving a follow!
Man much appreciated it. Thank yes this camera is a beast but it dose have it’s Quirks always do your research. Btw this may not mean much But bro your work is Fire 🔥 looks great you don’t need a new camera in my opinion 😅 just keep shooting 💪🏾
@@Director_Z I appreciate it bro! You keep shooting as well, loving the work!
great review man, I seriously was considering getting this for documentaries and using it as a
cam
Yeah man is a great camera what I would recommend first though is to just get into the blackmagic eco system and pick up a pocket 4k or 6k pro the images are just as good but way more cost effective
@@Director_Z for sure, I've actually shot with the pocket 4k for a documentary series I'm working on. I was just thinking about that all-in-one setup for when I shoot corporate projects as well. Thank you for the tips. looking forward to more of your videos. just found your channel yesterday.
Totally understand what you mean then I would honestly consider a used g2 4.6k. That joint is a beast
And thanks definitely will keep the videos coming
Really enjoyed your video bro as I’m looking to upgrade to the 12k OLPF version I have one question since this video has black magic done anything to fix these issues
I appreciate it thanks for the comment, yes it actually was a issue on my end when you push the camera to do extreme slow motion recording it’s best to have two CARDS in the camera it will write to both cards what was happening is it was writing half the frames to one card and because I didn’t have another card in the other card slot the other frames didn’t get captured
I can see so many ways that you went wrong with your rental experience, some rental companies just rent you what you ordered assuming you know what you are doing, and there are other rental companies that will take the time to get you what you need which might be miles away from what you walked in to rent, from the right media to the right lenses,, to the right monitor, yes I know the camera has a built in monitor but from listening to your problems with deliverables would have been solved with renting you the 7 inch video assist monitor that records several flavors of prores to SD cards or ssd drives, assuming you knew the 12k is raw only. do not be fooled because you have been told of the easy to use menu. finally, pros and cons brother, really, how can you make that determination from such a short time with the camera.
Thank you , yes I would agree lol it’s best to really get what you need when filming. We as filmmakers get so caught up with what looks Good instead of what we need
thank you all for watching drop a comment below if you would like to see more video like this
+1
The most important points on the topic of drop frames have already been said (activate „stop if drop frame“ and record on 2 cfast cards). But even then, depending on the resolution and compression, the bandwidth is often not enough.
In this case, the last option would be a compatible SSD connected via USB C.
What resolution and compression did you record?
Yes man you hit all the points I was filming at 8k 5.1 compression but I was off speeding filming in 120 but playing back at 24FPs
@@Director_Z Then the mystery is solved, because 8K 5:1 120 fps is definitely too much for a CFast 2.0 card… even with 2 cards in dual operation, this could be difficult.
There are even combinations of resolutions, compressions and frame rates that the camera cannot record at all, because no storage medium and no interface is fast enough and yet you can select the option.
@@deadendboredom mhm so should i have used the ssd
@@Director_Z Yes and maybe you would also have benefited from recording in a different resolution and compression.
If you don’t need a higher resolution for a special reason, the difference between 8K and 4K is comparatively small - especially if you publish the final product on TH-cam. I personally even prefer 4K, as it looks natural to me.
There are also even more balanced possibilities in the area of compression.
I made a Video with the different resolutions and compressions:
th-cam.com/video/ElWMZ4ehyg4/w-d-xo.html
My question is why people not buying URSA Mini Pro? Is it because of price or any issues. People using red Sony fx6 fx9
Mainly because ProRes, red raw, Sonys codecs and so on have been in the industry and trusted for a long time. BM is good, but it’s not at the quality level just yet to trust a million dollar project with. Braw is still new and young, it has to prove its weight. Even the pocket 4K and 6K cameras have some issues every now and then. BM needs to focus more on quality control.
great question, honestly im not sure i would say its because like @earnieboy54 said it could be a trust issue and right now Blackmagic is new and yes they may need to focus on quality control but i belive Balckmagic is stong in the game and once they hit they hit hard and soon they are going to be ahead in the industry i love the image that come out of their cameras
i agree
Most people just dont know about it. Also it's geared more for broadcasting.
Man where u been zay
lol man i have been resting and working, getting back to uploading. i'm going to be dropping a few videos through this month