One of the huge advantages of engine braking for me is the traction aspect. On slick downhills where modulation of the rear brake can be tricky, using the engine braking and the rear brake gives you that much more control. In some areas I ride you don't even want to touch the front brake on slimy downhills or you will lose control of the front end instantly. Major advantage for engine braking.
Bingo. Steep decents are never a problem for me on any 4 stroke. Put it in first gear and roll down the hill, it keeps u at the perfect speed without locking the rear
I'd have to disagree there. Dirtbikes are all about momentum and crawling down steep downhills in first gear gives you none. 2nd gear rolling playing with the clutch and rear brake will allow you to roll or bounce over obstacles on the way down. Just watch any of the WESS hard enduros all the riders fly down the hills using momentum no ones in first gear crawling even in Erzberg where it's slippery vertical drop offs.
Exactly what I was thinking. Pulling the clutch in is just fecking stupid. Down steep hills I use engine braking, both brakes and clutch. Keeps everything smoothed out.
Interesting video. I generally try to minimize relying on the clutch for anything. Engine braking helps you slow down more efficiently and with more traction on 2 strokes and 4 strokes (though obviously more so on a 4 stroke). To each their own though!
I have had both 2 and 4 strokes and found using engine braking on long slippery steep downhill trails is way easier using engine braking on a 4 stroke. Using brakes only causes the bike to slide too easily.
That wasn't because he lost braking power and overshot a turn. He just didn't pick the right line for the track. He wasn't trying to brake and turn. He was trying to go straight on a less worn path. Has nothing to do with braking, engine or otherwise.
Engine braking is an advantage on a 4st IMO, that's one of the reasons I went back to 4st after riding 2st for a couple years. Less skidding tires from applying too much brake, get much longer brake pad life, and a much more planted feel vs a 2st. Oh and if you want to reduce the amount of engine breaking just ride a gear higher which I typically do on a 4st anyway.
Good to hear, coming from a 2t owner, I haven't had one and have been lining the right one for my needs up, but this issue is a big one for me to consider. I love the braking action I can get with my 4 stroke, and as you say you don't have to brake with 1st or 2nd or even 3rd and the braking action is a finessed 'dragging' not an abrupt braking. A lot of times I'll put it in that higher gear as you mention, that comes in handy for me, in certain descents, there is very little braking action.
Downshift into a corner on a 4stroke. Perfect amount of rear brake and your in the right gear to exit. Also for steep hill decent, put it in first and let it engine brake down the hill. Never locks up and keeps u at a safe speed until u want more
Engine breaking is a massive part of breaking regardless of stroke. Leaving the clutch out prevents the rear wheel from locking up and provides much better breaking.
I appreciate the opinion and the video but I would have to disagree based on riding environments. I don’t think engine braking is always the best option specifically when traversing technical downhill sections of trail but (riding a 4 stroke 250) I engine brake quite often. Especially here in SW Washington where there is a considerable amount of mud, engine braking helps keep a smooth and controlled decent where dabbing the front or rear brake could induce more sliding less stopping. I will hold the clutch to coast and rather than use clutch to modulate forward power, I use the clutch to modulate stopping power. Maybe it’s specific to my riding area and style but like I said there is A LOT of mud. I could see in your rocky terrain not needing to engine brake. I’m also just weeks into my dirt bike adventures having come from riding quads on the sand dunes so I still have plenty to learn.
The only time I use engine break is on an extremely steep down hill because it allows me to go down the hill slowly without locking up the rear tire so I maintain traction
As an engineer. I know a little on this subject. The questions for some on the two-strokes, you shouldn't engine break with those if your engine doesn't have an oil pump. If it's the traditional gas/oil lub fed engine, then done engine break with it. It will cause wear with no to little lube potentially. It small amounts is okay, just don't spend half the time engine braking going down hills or something. If you do have an oil pump with a 2t, then stuff like an engine flywheel will help you in scenarios were engine braking may be advantageous. Per the four strokes, its perfectly fine to engine brake. But it definitely has it's moments when to use. I have been in car racing scenarios when you're forced to use it. You simply start to have your breaks fade and need some assistance. For bikes, they are so light, that sometimes you don't see the same issues. However, it can be beneficial with downhill stuff and you have extended periods braking needed.Not only does it save your brakes, it also helps save fuel with some type of engines. But carb-based four strokes won't see any fuel benefit. Another potential benefit is engine break in, with engine braking, no pun intended on that. The negative manifold pressure allows for safe wear on an engine and is one way to ease an engine in.
@@brycegreen8900 That's one of the biggest things I've been practicing lately is less clutch use, so in other words downshifting and braking with no clutch.I feel I've been able to carry more momentum because I wont lock the rear wheel. I don't feel as though I'm wearing the motor, its a 19' yz250x with 22ish hours on a fresh top end with well over 100 on the bottom end.
It all depends on the riding you do. I ride a 4t and I always use engine braking, it's not bad for 4t's to engine brake like it can be on 2t's, and in a lot of situations it is easier and safer to use the engine rather than the actual brakes. Take the sand dunes for example, I rarely use my brakes at all in the dunes because I don't want to bury my tires, so I use engine braking to slow me down on downhills. Even in places like Moab on slickrock I use mostly engine braking so I don't risk locking up the rear tire and dropping the bike on steep downhills. Engine braking has its place and I think it is a valuable tool that you should be using on 4t's personally.
I’m not on the same page as you when it comes to engine braking. Maybe in the dry it’s not important but when you’re in a mud race it comes in handy for going down a muddy hill.
Just the dynamics of 4t vs 2t, it’s ok to engine brake on a 4t. On a 2t the only way it gets oiling is when the throttle is open so “engine braking” can actually be harmful. Since that’s not the case on 4t it’s safer. And engine braking helps seat the rings, that’s usually how you break in almost all 4t engines is through engine braking so it’s actually helpful lol but when I ride I’m always modulating the clutch and brakes. Lol
People are generally overthinking this topic. Do whatever works. I once argued for engine braking on descents, then found I liked clutching better for steeper, gnarlier downhills because it's one less thing to manage ie. keeping the engine from stalling or rear wheel from skidding. So at this point I'm just of the mind that every bike and rider are different and people generally know what works for them. I'm no enduro instructor!
People always comment and tell me not to engine brake. But if you are not down shifting into a turn then when do you down shift, once you are already into the turn? That seems like it would take longer to get out of the turn.
You are just a 2 stroke rider like me. I did years of competition and the years that I had the 4 stroke i really had to focus to use the engine breaks but when you do it good it is effective when you can enter corners with little effectif slide. 👍😜
I engine brake because it saves my brakes. It doesn't hurt your motor, and if you're going down a steep hill it helps a lot instead of having your rear brake locked
Your probably not old enough to remember, but we used to have compression release’s ( tweeter valves ) on our 2 strokes for engine brakes . When riding Trials Events we would shut the idle off on 2 strokes for smoother control on downhills.
I ride 2t and 4t. Prefer the freewheel feel of 2t off throttle, BUT engine brake is a tool the 4t gives you. I clutch a lot off throttle to keep my 4t freewheeling but I use engine braking as necessary like long downhill etc. Its free braking power why not? Up to each person and their style i guess...no right or wrong.
I agree, use brakes to slow down or stop and engine to maintain speed or accelerate. Often, I use a bit of both at the same time. Both on and off road.
A little off topic from Engine breaking,just wanted to give a shout out.I order from RM ATV all the time finally clicked on the link to order through your channel I really like that the home screen option has tools and supplies that you use so it’s like an extra guide on buying what tools and gear i can get. Great vid!
Engine braking is the reason why I hate 4 strokes. Love to coast downhill with blips of throttle when needed and you can't do it unless relying on clutch which seems like unnecessary effort really.
I agree with you. I really don’t like engine braking. I use it sometimes but most of the time just pull in the clutch and use the brakes. I feel like it’s much smoother. I’m riding a 2014KX450F
I prefer engine braking. Tryna feather the clutch all the time makes my flow go to literal trash. The engine braking helps me be smoother. I also like how engine braking loads up the front end for cornering better also
40 years ago I was taught to engine brake at all times. That was with a street bike and of course much poorer brakes back in the day. That riding style has carried over for me to the dirt. I guess it’s just what you are comfortable with. I don’t think either is wrong. I ride exclusively 4S 450cc+. If I were to relearn now, I may go your way Kyle.
Using the engine to help you slow down or go down hill is not hurting anything, I like the idea of having engine engaged just in case I need to throttle out, like the old saying "when in doubt, throttle out" 😁
I've always ride 4 strokes and always used the "COMPRESSION" of the engine to help slow me down, I hope everyone knows that the engine is not equipped with engine brake components, an engine brake is when air is actually compressed into the pistons to help slow a vehicle, as with a diesel engine, on a 4 stroke bike it is just the piston compression that helps slow the bike and it doesn't hurt anything
@@terrywilson1362 I get where you are coming from, but no one says it is an engine brake, they call it engine braking, as in using the engine to brake, not using an engine brake, so engine braking is the correct term here.
I have just never heard anyone use the term engine braking or engine brake until the last few months, I just didn't want anyone new to riding thinking that there was an actual engine brake, like I said earlier it is just the way the motor works
Interesting, there is no right or wrong, in 40 years of riding, the first 20 years was on two strokes, the last 20 years on 4 strokes. I use engine braking all the time and that is because I am used to that advantage that comes with riding 4 strokes. Since that is ingrained in me I think that if I rode a 2 stroke now, I would over shoot corners.
I don't engine brake on the trails, but heading back to the trailhead, there's a 3-mile long downhill from 3000 ft that's gravel and then pavement. I'm afraid I might overheat the brakes, so I alternate front/back brake and engine braking. If you lose brakes on the way down that hill, it's daises.
May sound stupid but im terrified off using my front brake i would rather have my back end slide around, because i used my front brake downhill bike did a front flip i fell of the side of the trail and rolled a good 50 feet down the mountain 😂😂 good thing i had a helmet, maybe i need to try the one finger method that you use? Any suggestions i have a 2015 125sx ktm so touchy ass brakes.
Wow! What a polarizing subject. I ride 2-stroke and 4-stroke. Both have engine braking, its just the 4-stroke has more of it. Modern 4-strokes push 13:1 compression ratios, so there is a ton more engine braking than you would ever get on a 7:1 ratio 2-stroke. But, that said, on my 300 smoker, you definitely get some engine braking. Here's what happens when I switch to my 4-stroke after riding the 2-stroke: for the first few hard braking turns, I'll typically stall the engine on the 4-stroke due to using too much rear brake. Once I make the adjustment, everything is good again. Both engine versions have their pluses and minuses. Good riders can adapt to either one.
Would you be willing to add links in the description of where you ride? Just moved to salt lake and I would love to know where these fun rides are that you do in your videos. Maybe use “on X off-road”. That’s what I like. Thanks for the videos.
Hey Kyle, would like to hear your thoughts on balancing when riding fast on single track. Use of gas to stand the bike up if you’ve turned too sharp for a corner, and dropping your CG if you haven’t turned enough. I find these techniques let me ride much faster much safer.
Ignore the fear of engine braking on a 2 stroke ! Most issues are caused by lean oil mixes , poor oil quality , lean jetting and lastly lack of engine maintenance and doing rings /pistons when you should
I use my brakes. It kills me when people say they want a Rekluse clutch, but don’t want to lose engine braking. I don’t understand it. I never even think about engine braking. Nor do I run a Rekluse clutch. You have a front and back brake for a reason. Use it lol
I do the same, but thats probably from starting on a 2t. I've noticed a lot of my friends who started on 2t's do the same, and my friends who started on 4t's use engine braking more often. Always exceptions to the rule so to speak though, such as you (Kyle) who started on a yz450 if i remember correctly? But you have bounced back and forth between 2 and 4 strokes, so you have a more well rounded riding technique IMO.
I'm a new biker and I absolutely hate the fact it's throttle or brake on my yz250fx. I sometimes need that neutral like roll to plan what I'm doing next. As a beginner, it makes things difficult. I am forcing myself to engage clutch a lot but sometimes I forget that letting off the throttle sends my body flying forward.
I would like to add that when I am letting engine help keep me slow on down hill I am also using front brake only, if you try to use rear brake and forget to pull in clutch the engine does which can be a little scary
I'm not a fan of engine braking and that I feel is the benefit of the 2 stroke. Personally I feel that I have more control over the bike under braking on a 2 stroke because of that.
I guess I do engine brake ,2s, because i pull the clutch in about 3 or 4 feet from corner. I set the idle to where it barley will not idle and only use the clutch for stopping and starting. I tend to ride at the rpm just before it gets on the pipe while trail riding.
We need someone to engine brake a 2t under controlled and extended tests to settle the argument or dispel the rumors or claims of engine braking effects on the longevity of a 2t motor (though there's little actual 'braking' action involved).
Remember compression releases? I do. Had em on my Ducati! One day I thought " gee, maybe it sucks in dirt" and stopped using them. Two strokes often had them in the 1960's. Not to date myself.
I use engine braking cuz to slow down your bike and if you want to go into a corner lets say you are just going to engine brake cause how else would you do that, with brakes? Edit: and i heard that if you want to just slow down a little pulling in clutch and braking with brakes will damage your clutch, but you will only want to use clutch and brakes when completely stopping? correct if i am right
On all the trails you ride, are they one direction trails? Or do you occasionally come up on someone going the opposite direction. I’m wondering because of the possibility of a collision or if it’s a rare occurrence.
I've been riding for 3 months and engine braking has been huge issue for me since my bike CRF250F 2021 the way its geared its hard to stand on it, the engine brake is very severe at lower gears (1-3) because it's constantly trying to buck me off despite me squeezing the bike with my knees, I've unfortunately not stood up very much since I got the bike and it's breaking my heart because it limits where I can go constantly sitting on the bike. I heard about getting a heavier fly wheel so it reduces the engine braking but Idk, this video has helped a little bit and I will be taking your advice in consideration.
I always saw engine braking as a lazy mans way of not needing to learn proper braking. Either way the limiting factor is tire traction - engine braking just means you dont have to try as hard to understand the limits and capabilities of your brakes. If you're a casual rider with no spare time or willingness to learn - engine braking will make up for shortfalls in ability
Have you been able to figure out about how many trail riding miles you get out of that tank on the FX? Curious of a rough mpg number for average trail riding intensity
if your not engine braking on 4T. your lossing out on one of the greatest strengths of a 4T!! i am having a bit of problems with this now. Switching from a 4T to a 2T this season
I like 2t because I hate when I'm on my 4t it's always slowing down unless you are on the throttle. It took me a while to get used to when I first got a 4t dirtbike.
I use my brakes to brake and my engine to speed up and slow down, the slowing down bit is engine braking!? I guarantee your using it allot even tho your actively avoiding it. I'm not bothered either way on long slow down hills but for sure when initially slowing from speed! I'd recommend riding that trail a few times without using your clutch at all (on shifts and over logs if you like) and being more in tune with the engine speed, then see how you feel (I'd also recommend you do everything a gear lower)? A 2t will feel a bit like it's running away on corner entry if your not used to it but only takes a corner or two untill you've learnt to either slow sooner or break harder. I wouldn't get on a bike and need to think how many strokes it's got, I'd just ride it! Unless of course your intending to 'send it' straight into the first corner?
Engine braking is something I use naturally. Kinda something you learn to use when you learn how a motorcycle operates. 2 smoke or 4. Plus saves brake pads n rotors 😅
Pulling it all the way in and coasting like that is not really riding the clutch at all. Wear would be to the clutch springs and cable stretch, but so minute not to even worry about.
I also think the engine brakers are silly. Use your brakes, you have more modulation and control. If you are engine braking alot I think you're coasting alot and I don't coast much so maybythats the difference. Usually either accelerating or braking. Any time I'm not accelerating, clutch is pulled in. Easy to stall a four stroke if you're trying to 'engine brake' and use your real brakes also.
You should get used to engine braking now because when we're all on electric bikes in a decade or so you're going to want to take advantage of battery regen to increase your range! This is what I tell myself to make me feel better about spending a decade developing bad habits on a 4 stroke. 10 years and never replaced a rear brake pad. Now I'm on a smoker and having to relearn using the rear brake 🤷♂️🤦♂️.
No engine brake at all is my preference. I can go faster to s corner without engine brake and control my momentum how I want it. Engine brake usually won't let me depending how hot I'm going into a corner.
Don’t do it for your average driver. It’s extremely hard on the engine! Do you slam your car in reverse while it’s still rolling forward? Use you clutch and brakes. The piston and gears are getting slammed. For professional riders, great, do it, it helps, but they are getting new bikes monthly
Go to some races. Watch the pros let their 2t engines click/clack(chain slap on sprocket and chain guild) down hills and corners.... that’s engine braking. It’s fine.
@@brycegreen8900 it isn't likely to seize you engine but it will wear out faster it same goes for not warming your bike up properly, the pros care about being fast not preserving there engine
Disagree, engine braking on 4-strokes helps with deceleration as well as braking. That’s the beauty of a 4-stroke. To say an engine is for acceleration and brakes are for slowing down you’re not using tools for each bike effectively.
I think this guy as I remember, not positive, has spent 95% of his riding time on two strokes, if so, well you get used to not using engine braking. Engine braking for me is an energy saver, really a life saver, I use it as a back brake without having to take my right foot off the ball (of the foot) to set up for the back brake, constantly, though when I see I need it I can get too that back brake pretty quickly. A lot of times, I'm on my arch (right foot) covering that back brake for finesse, and when I need to either slide the back wheel around or heavily drag that back wheel down a dirt mound or hill, engine braking is a feature that stands in the way of me buying a two stroke, though I'd love a 2t for some of its other characteristics.
Totally agree , smooth down hill on a Moto ! Match the gears to the speed variations on the long drops for a throttle hop if required and just bomb it clutch in SSS kyb style Yeewww ! ! As for engine braking elsewhere well thats another vid hey .
That’s your opinion though and in truth you are only riding at a snails pace. Engine braking can be almost tuned out of the 4 stroke if need be via the ecu. Once you’re used to your bike you will be no faster or slower because of engine braking either way. Ffs just enjoy the ride.
One of the huge advantages of engine braking for me is the traction aspect. On slick downhills where modulation of the rear brake can be tricky, using the engine braking and the rear brake gives you that much more control. In some areas I ride you don't even want to touch the front brake on slimy downhills or you will lose control of the front end instantly. Major advantage for engine braking.
Bingo. Steep decents are never a problem for me on any 4 stroke. Put it in first gear and roll down the hill, it keeps u at the perfect speed without locking the rear
Agree 💯. Sometimes first gear, sometimes second gear - but engine braking either way.
Exactly what I was going to comment!!
I'd have to disagree there. Dirtbikes are all about momentum and crawling down steep downhills in first gear gives you none. 2nd gear rolling playing with the clutch and rear brake will allow you to roll or bounce over obstacles on the way down. Just watch any of the WESS hard enduros all the riders fly down the hills using momentum no ones in first gear crawling even in Erzberg where it's slippery vertical drop offs.
Thorn Carnegie - come ride some of my trails with me after some rain. You can go first and show me how it’s done.
Totally disagree with you on riding a 4 stroke, engine braking is a great tool you have at your disposal why not use it
Thats why most pros prefer 4T...
gary butler if you can use engine breaking properly you can add at least 15-25 percent more to your braking
Exactly what I was thinking. Pulling the clutch in is just fecking stupid. Down steep hills I use engine braking, both brakes and clutch. Keeps everything smoothed out.
It lets you dial in the exact amount of rear braking you’d like. That’s why.
It’s called brake control, engine braking is twice as hard on the motor.
Interesting video. I generally try to minimize relying on the clutch for anything. Engine braking helps you slow down more efficiently and with more traction on 2 strokes and 4 strokes (though obviously more so on a 4 stroke). To each their own though!
I have had both 2 and 4 strokes and found using engine braking on long slippery steep downhill trails is way easier using engine braking on a 4 stroke. Using brakes only causes the bike to slide too easily.
Says dont use engine braking, only rely on brakes as he blows through a turn lol
I laughed when I saw that haha the irony
Perfect timing haha
That wasn't because he lost braking power and overshot a turn. He just didn't pick the right line for the track. He wasn't trying to brake and turn. He was trying to go straight on a less worn path. Has nothing to do with braking, engine or otherwise.
Engine braking is an advantage on a 4st IMO, that's one of the reasons I went back to 4st after riding 2st for a couple years. Less skidding tires from applying too much brake, get much longer brake pad life, and a much more planted feel vs a 2st. Oh and if you want to reduce the amount of engine breaking just ride a gear higher which I typically do on a 4st anyway.
Good to hear, coming from a 2t owner,
I haven't had one and have been lining the
right one for my needs up, but this issue is
a big one for me to consider. I love the braking
action I can get with my 4 stroke, and as you say
you don't have to brake with 1st or 2nd or even
3rd and the braking action is a finessed 'dragging'
not an abrupt braking.
A lot of times
I'll put it in that higher gear as you mention,
that comes in handy for me, in certain descents, there is very little braking
action.
Downshift into a corner on a 4stroke. Perfect amount of rear brake and your in the right gear to exit. Also for steep hill decent, put it in first and let it engine brake down the hill. Never locks up and keeps u at a safe speed until u want more
Engine breaking is a massive part of breaking regardless of stroke. Leaving the clutch out prevents the rear wheel from locking up and provides much better breaking.
I appreciate the opinion and the video but I would have to disagree based on riding environments. I don’t think engine braking is always the best option specifically when traversing technical downhill sections of trail but (riding a 4 stroke 250) I engine brake quite often. Especially here in SW Washington where there is a considerable amount of mud, engine braking helps keep a smooth and controlled decent where dabbing the front or rear brake could induce more sliding less stopping. I will hold the clutch to coast and rather than use clutch to modulate forward power, I use the clutch to modulate stopping power. Maybe it’s specific to my riding area and style but like I said there is A LOT of mud. I could see in your rocky terrain not needing to engine brake. I’m also just weeks into my dirt bike adventures having come from riding quads on the sand dunes so I still have plenty to learn.
The only time I use engine break is on an extremely steep down hill because it allows me to go down the hill slowly without locking up the rear tire so I maintain traction
As an engineer. I know a little on this subject. The questions for some on the two-strokes, you shouldn't engine break with those if your engine doesn't have an oil pump. If it's the traditional gas/oil lub fed engine, then done engine break with it. It will cause wear with no to little lube potentially. It small amounts is okay, just don't spend half the time engine braking going down hills or something. If you do have an oil pump with a 2t, then stuff like an engine flywheel will help you in scenarios were engine braking may be advantageous. Per the four strokes, its perfectly fine to engine brake. But it definitely has it's moments when to use. I have been in car racing scenarios when you're forced to use it. You simply start to have your breaks fade and need some assistance. For bikes, they are so light, that sometimes you don't see the same issues. However, it can be beneficial with downhill stuff and you have extended periods braking needed.Not only does it save your brakes, it also helps save fuel with some type of engines. But carb-based four strokes won't see any fuel benefit. Another potential benefit is engine break in, with engine braking, no pun intended on that. The negative manifold pressure allows for safe wear on an engine and is one way to ease an engine in.
Engine braked for minutes straight down big hills on a 2 stroke. Never had any issues.
Bryce Green me too. Engine brake my 2t like crazy. No problems.
"As an engineer, with experience" the 2 stroke engine brake problem is a myth.
@@brycegreen8900 That's one of the biggest things I've been practicing lately is less clutch use, so in other words downshifting and braking with no clutch.I feel I've been able to carry more momentum because I wont lock the rear wheel. I don't feel as though I'm wearing the motor, its a 19' yz250x with 22ish hours on a fresh top end with well over 100 on the bottom end.
It all depends on the riding you do. I ride a 4t and I always use engine braking, it's not bad for 4t's to engine brake like it can be on 2t's, and in a lot of situations it is easier and safer to use the engine rather than the actual brakes. Take the sand dunes for example, I rarely use my brakes at all in the dunes because I don't want to bury my tires, so I use engine braking to slow me down on downhills. Even in places like Moab on slickrock I use mostly engine braking so I don't risk locking up the rear tire and dropping the bike on steep downhills. Engine braking has its place and I think it is a valuable tool that you should be using on 4t's personally.
I’m not on the same page as you when it comes to engine braking. Maybe in the dry it’s not important but when you’re in a mud race it comes in handy for going down a muddy hill.
Just the dynamics of 4t vs 2t, it’s ok to engine brake on a 4t. On a 2t the only way it gets oiling is when the throttle is open so “engine braking” can actually be harmful. Since that’s not the case on 4t it’s safer. And engine braking helps seat the rings, that’s usually how you break in almost all 4t engines is through engine braking so it’s actually helpful lol but when I ride I’m always modulating the clutch and brakes. Lol
People are generally overthinking this topic. Do whatever works. I once argued for engine braking on descents, then found I liked clutching better for steeper, gnarlier downhills because it's one less thing to manage ie. keeping the engine from stalling or rear wheel from skidding. So at this point I'm just of the mind that every bike and rider are different and people generally know what works for them. I'm no enduro instructor!
People always comment and tell me not to engine brake. But if you are not down shifting into a turn then when do you down shift, once you are already into the turn? That seems like it would take longer to get out of the turn.
But I don’t ride 4 strokes so I don’t know what is right.
It all depends on the situation for me. If I feel I’m gonna need the power ready at a instant, I’ll use engine breaking if not I’ll use the clutch.
You are just a 2 stroke rider like me. I did years of competition and the years that I had the 4 stroke i really had to focus to use the engine breaks but when you do it good it is effective when you can enter corners with little effectif slide. 👍😜
I engine brake because it saves my brakes. It doesn't hurt your motor, and if you're going down a steep hill it helps a lot instead of having your rear brake locked
Your probably not old enough to remember, but we used to have compression release’s ( tweeter valves ) on our 2 strokes for engine brakes . When riding Trials Events we would shut the idle off on 2 strokes for smoother control on downhills.
I ride 2t and 4t. Prefer the freewheel feel of 2t off throttle, BUT engine brake is a tool the 4t gives you. I clutch a lot off throttle to keep my 4t freewheeling but I use engine braking as necessary like long downhill etc. Its free braking power why not? Up to each person and their style i guess...no right or wrong.
I agree, use brakes to slow down or stop and engine to maintain speed or accelerate. Often, I use a bit of both at the same time. Both on and off road.
A little off topic from Engine breaking,just wanted to give a shout out.I order from RM ATV all the time finally clicked on the link to order through your channel I really like that the home screen option has tools and supplies that you use so it’s like an extra guide on buying what tools and gear i can get. Great vid!
Engine braking is the reason why I hate 4 strokes. Love to coast downhill with blips of throttle when needed and you can't do it unless relying on clutch which seems like unnecessary effort really.
I agree with you. I really don’t like engine braking. I use it sometimes but most of the time just pull in the clutch and use the brakes. I feel like it’s much smoother. I’m riding a 2014KX450F
I prefer engine braking. Tryna feather the clutch all the time makes my flow go to literal trash. The engine braking helps me be smoother. I also like how engine braking loads up the front end for cornering better also
1:19 u coulda used abit of engine brake there eh
40 years ago I was taught to engine brake at all times. That was with a street bike and of course much poorer brakes back in the day. That riding style has carried over for me to the dirt. I guess it’s just what you are comfortable with. I don’t think either is wrong. I ride exclusively 4S 450cc+. If I were to relearn now, I may go your way Kyle.
Using the engine to help you slow down or go down hill is not hurting anything, I like the idea of having engine engaged just in case I need to throttle out, like the old saying "when in doubt, throttle out" 😁
@@terrywilson1362 "Throttling out" has saved me from countless crashes over the years - both on the roads and in the dirt.
I've always ride 4 strokes and always used the "COMPRESSION" of the engine to help slow me down, I hope everyone knows that the engine is not equipped with engine brake components, an engine brake is when air is actually compressed into the pistons to help slow a vehicle, as with a diesel engine, on a 4 stroke bike it is just the piston compression that helps slow the bike and it doesn't hurt anything
I think is more of "vacum" on the power stroke due to lack of air rather than "compression" 🤔
I'm not an engine tech so I'm not sure I just know it's not an engine brake
@@hardendurobosnia17 I'm not an engine tech so I'm not sure I just know it's not an engine brake, it is just the way the motor works
@@terrywilson1362 I get where you are coming from, but no one says it is an engine brake, they call it engine braking, as in using the engine to brake, not using an engine brake, so engine braking is the correct term here.
I have just never heard anyone use the term engine braking or engine brake until the last few months, I just didn't want anyone new to riding thinking that there was an actual engine brake, like I said earlier it is just the way the motor works
Interesting, there is no right or wrong, in 40 years of riding, the first 20 years was on two strokes, the last 20 years on 4 strokes. I use engine braking all the time and that is because I am used to that advantage that comes with riding 4 strokes. Since that is ingrained in me I think that if I rode a 2 stroke now, I would over shoot corners.
I don't engine brake on the trails, but heading back to the trailhead, there's a 3-mile long downhill from 3000 ft that's gravel and then pavement. I'm afraid I might overheat the brakes, so I alternate front/back brake and engine braking. If you lose brakes on the way down that hill, it's daises.
May sound stupid but im terrified off using my front brake i would rather have my back end slide around, because i used my front brake downhill bike did a front flip i fell of the side of the trail and rolled a good 50 feet down the mountain 😂😂 good thing i had a helmet, maybe i need to try the one finger method that you use? Any suggestions i have a 2015 125sx ktm so touchy ass brakes.
Wow! What a polarizing subject. I ride 2-stroke and 4-stroke. Both have engine braking, its just the 4-stroke has more of it. Modern 4-strokes push 13:1 compression ratios, so there is a ton more engine braking than you would ever get on a 7:1 ratio 2-stroke. But, that said, on my 300 smoker, you definitely get some engine braking. Here's what happens when I switch to my 4-stroke after riding the 2-stroke: for the first few hard braking turns, I'll typically stall the engine on the 4-stroke due to using too much rear brake. Once I make the adjustment, everything is good again. Both engine versions have their pluses and minuses. Good riders can adapt to either one.
Would you be willing to add links in the description of where you ride? Just moved to salt lake and I would love to know where these fun rides are that you do in your videos. Maybe use “on X off-road”. That’s what I like. Thanks for the videos.
Always look forward to your uploads! Great advice!
Hey Kyle, would like to hear your thoughts on balancing when riding fast on single track. Use of gas to stand the bike up if you’ve turned too sharp for a corner, and dropping your CG if you haven’t turned enough. I find these techniques let me ride much faster much safer.
What is CG?
@@andrew8440 Center of Gravity
Ignore the fear of engine braking on a 2 stroke ! Most issues are caused by lean oil mixes , poor oil quality , lean jetting and lastly lack of engine maintenance and doing rings /pistons when you should
I use my brakes. It kills me when people say they want a Rekluse clutch, but don’t want to lose engine braking. I don’t understand it. I never even think about engine braking. Nor do I run a Rekluse clutch. You have a front and back brake for a reason. Use it lol
What bike would you recommend for a 13-year old that isn't trying to spend a lot of money
I am a 2 stroke rider but when I rode the older air cooled 4 strokes, I used engine braking going down super steep trails.
I do the same, but thats probably from starting on a 2t. I've noticed a lot of my friends who started on 2t's do the same, and my friends who started on 4t's use engine braking more often.
Always exceptions to the rule so to speak though, such as you (Kyle) who started on a yz450 if i remember correctly? But you have bounced back and forth between 2 and 4 strokes, so you have a more well rounded riding technique IMO.
I'm a new biker and I absolutely hate the fact it's throttle or brake on my yz250fx. I sometimes need that neutral like roll to plan what I'm doing next. As a beginner, it makes things difficult. I am forcing myself to engage clutch a lot but sometimes I forget that letting off the throttle sends my body flying forward.
I would like to add that when I am letting engine help keep me slow on down hill I am also using front brake only, if you try to use rear brake and forget to pull in clutch the engine does which can be a little scary
The engine dies
I'm not a fan of engine braking and that I feel is the benefit of the 2 stroke. Personally I feel that I have more control over the bike under braking on a 2 stroke because of that.
I guess I do engine brake ,2s, because i pull the clutch in about 3 or 4 feet from corner. I set the idle to where it barley will not idle and only use the clutch for stopping and starting. I tend to ride at the rpm just before it gets on the pipe while trail riding.
We need someone to engine brake a 2t under
controlled and extended tests to settle the argument
or dispel the rumors or claims of
engine braking effects on the longevity of a 2t motor
(though there's little actual 'braking' action involved).
Avoiding controversial topics, is why I use
my foot for braking, or feet if it's a super gnarly hill,
this way I don't hurt anyone's feelings.
Can you please did a comparison of the ktm 125 sx vs 150 sx
Remember compression releases? I do. Had em on my Ducati! One day I thought " gee, maybe it sucks in dirt" and stopped using them. Two strokes often had them in the 1960's. Not to date myself.
In my experience, that’s only on extreme downshifts.
@@tezzanewton I haven't seen an after market compression release in decades, not even on the old bikes.
Can someone explain what engine breaking is to me please like is it just shifting down
Coming into a turn fast just go down a gear or two and use that clutch then your right in the peak hp when shooting out of corner
I use engine braking cuz to slow down your bike and if you want to go into a corner lets say you are just going to engine brake cause how else would you do that, with brakes?
Edit: and i heard that if you want to just slow down a little pulling in clutch and braking with brakes will damage your clutch, but you will only want to use clutch and brakes when completely stopping? correct if i am right
I found out that not engine breaking made me faster and more efficient to attack the obstacles ahead
On all the trails you ride, are they one direction trails? Or do you occasionally come up on someone going the opposite direction. I’m wondering because of the possibility of a collision or if it’s a rare occurrence.
I've been riding for 3 months and engine braking has been huge issue for me since my bike CRF250F 2021 the way its geared its hard to stand on it, the engine brake is very severe at lower gears (1-3) because it's constantly trying to buck me off despite me squeezing the bike with my knees, I've unfortunately not stood up very much since I got the bike and it's breaking my heart because it limits where I can go constantly sitting on the bike. I heard about getting a heavier fly wheel so it reduces the engine braking but Idk, this video has helped a little bit and I will be taking your advice in consideration.
The only time I engine brake is on a steep downhill, when I need the extra help on top of the rear brake. Otherwise, it's clutch/brake for me.
It's like hitting the brakes in your stickshift car in a turn on a wet road... engine braking is a much better option..
I always saw engine braking as a lazy mans way of not needing to learn proper braking. Either way the limiting factor is tire traction - engine braking just means you dont have to try as hard to understand the limits and capabilities of your brakes. If you're a casual rider with no spare time or willingness to learn - engine braking will make up for shortfalls in ability
Have you been able to figure out about how many trail riding miles you get out of that tank on the FX? Curious of a rough mpg number for average trail riding intensity
if your not engine braking on 4T. your lossing out on one of the greatest strengths of a 4T!! i am having a bit of problems with this now. Switching from a 4T to a 2T this season
Now that I've been converted to a 2-stroke guy, I've gotta say, this trail looks like it'd be more fun on a 2-stroke : )
I like 2t because I hate when I'm on my 4t it's always slowing down unless you are on the throttle. It took me a while to get used to when I first got a 4t dirtbike.
Engine braking is a tool 4t riders can use effectively, 2t riders have one less control available
I rev match every down shift and always utilize engine braking on a 4t.
I use my brakes to brake and my engine to speed up and slow down, the slowing down bit is engine braking!?
I guarantee your using it allot even tho your actively avoiding it.
I'm not bothered either way on long slow down hills but for sure when initially slowing from speed!
I'd recommend riding that trail a few times without using your clutch at all (on shifts and over logs if you like) and being more in tune with the engine speed, then see how you feel (I'd also recommend you do everything a gear lower)?
A 2t will feel a bit like it's running away on corner entry if your not used to it but only takes a corner or two untill you've learnt to either slow sooner or break harder.
I wouldn't get on a bike and need to think how many strokes it's got, I'd just ride it!
Unless of course your intending to 'send it' straight into the first corner?
My question is that is it bad to hold the clutch in for long periods or not?
No it’s not. You’ll eventually get faster and faster and you won’t want to hold the clutch in as it excaserbates arm pump.
Chad bingo
Engine braking is something I use naturally. Kinda something you learn to use when you learn how a motorcycle operates. 2 smoke or 4. Plus saves brake pads n rotors 😅
I love this trail. I think going up is much more fun, especially on that steeper section. I gotta get back up there soon.
Did you make it back up there?
is it bad to be riding the clutch that much? Does it wear it out?
Pulling it all the way in and coasting like that is not really riding the clutch at all. Wear would be to the clutch springs and cable stretch, but so minute not to even worry about.
They’re ok to do that on, and clutching in going down the hill means u have no control and just using the clutch more than u have to.
Bro’s commentating while riding like crazy. Wish I was that good 😎
I also think the engine brakers are silly. Use your brakes, you have more modulation and control. If you are engine braking alot I think you're coasting alot and I don't coast much so maybythats the difference. Usually either accelerating or braking. Any time I'm not accelerating, clutch is pulled in. Easy to stall a four stroke if you're trying to 'engine brake' and use your real brakes also.
I’m not american, Can someone come at you with dirt bike on these trails or are these one-way?
These trails are open in both directions.
You always have to be on the lookout for traffic coming at you.
Too many riders are afraid of engine braking on a 2 stroke because of the myths.
Great channel!! You inspired me to start my own!
Do u ride street bikes aswell and I love my yz250 2 stroke handles every thing I throw at it
Shirt shipped super fast!!
You should get used to engine braking now because when we're all on electric bikes in a decade or so you're going to want to take advantage of battery regen to increase your range! This is what I tell myself to make me feel better about spending a decade developing bad habits on a 4 stroke. 10 years and never replaced a rear brake pad. Now I'm on a smoker and having to relearn using the rear brake 🤷♂️🤦♂️.
So in other words, you're not racing, you're just tooling around. lol
At 1:20 if you were on the engine brakes that wouldn't have happened. Engine braking is a great tool at your disposal.
New title:
I'm on an awesome YZ250fx today and I'm not
sure that I know how to use my bike's engine
brake feature to my advantage.
No engine brake at all is my preference. I can go faster to s corner without engine brake and control my momentum how I want it. Engine brake usually won't let me depending how hot I'm going into a corner.
Don’t do it for your average driver. It’s extremely hard on the engine! Do you slam your car in reverse while it’s still rolling forward? Use you clutch and brakes. The piston and gears are getting slammed. For professional riders, great, do it, it helps, but they are getting new bikes monthly
I though this was about why engine breaking is bad for 2-strokes
Nope because you shouldnt do it so it's not even a discussion it just makes you sound ignorant tbh
@@Ben24636 are you saying you shouldn't use engine braking on a 2 stroke?
Go to some races. Watch the pros let their 2t engines click/clack(chain slap on sprocket and chain guild) down hills and corners.... that’s engine braking. It’s fine.
@@chadrides914 absolutely. I have never seen a 2 stroke seize from engine braking. It's a myth.
@@brycegreen8900 it isn't likely to seize you engine but it will wear out faster it same goes for not warming your bike up properly, the pros care about being fast not preserving there engine
I’ll have to try the type off riding you were doing on the Yamaha👍😎
Disagree, engine braking on 4-strokes helps with deceleration as well as braking. That’s the beauty of a 4-stroke. To say an engine is for acceleration and brakes are for slowing down you’re not using tools for each bike effectively.
Good video but I don't totally agree with this, but hey that what makes it good 👍
Not sure why you even brought this up.cars and 4 strokes have it so use it if you need to.
I think this guy as I remember, not positive,
has spent 95% of his riding time on two strokes,
if so, well you get used to not using engine braking.
Engine braking for me is an energy saver, really a
life saver, I use it as a back brake without having to
take my right foot off the ball (of the foot) to set up
for the back brake, constantly, though when I see
I need it I can get too that back brake pretty quickly.
A lot of times, I'm on my arch (right foot) covering
that back brake for finesse, and when I need to either
slide the back wheel around or heavily drag that back
wheel down a dirt mound or hill, engine braking is a
feature that stands in the way of me buying a two
stroke, though I'd love a 2t for some of its other characteristics.
I don’t engine brake at all. I’ve only been on a 2 stroke and have always been told it’s definitely bad on a 2 stroke engine.
It’s my tenth year of riding dirt bikes, and I’m only 15.
Canada 🇨🇦 needs to be eligible lol com on!! 😁
And Australia 🇦🇺 too.
I know eh, wth , love the channel but the no Canadian winners is BS, we are partners when they need us to help fight a war
Good video anyway. Most of the 2 stroke riders I know are just like Kyle and don't care for the engine braking, personal preference.
Anyway I’m in Australia and can’t enter but I don’t care. I just ordered the 2020 Husky TE300i 👊💪🇦🇺
love the videos i miss riding
Totally agree , smooth down hill on a Moto ! Match the gears to the speed variations on the long drops for a throttle hop if required and just bomb it clutch in SSS kyb style Yeewww ! ! As for engine braking elsewhere well thats another vid hey .
Your riding the clutch way too much. You need to gncc champ Shane Watts he wrote articles about not using clutch. He could teach you how to race also.
Very interesting!
That’s your opinion though and in truth you are only riding at a snails pace. Engine braking can be almost tuned out of the 4 stroke if need be via the ecu. Once you’re used to your bike you will be no faster or slower because of engine braking either way. Ffs just enjoy the ride.
Very interesting